SmartLess - "David Chang"

Episode Date: November 16, 2020

In this tasty episode of the pod, we bring in Mr. David Chang to have a seat at the table and indulge in a line of questioning by our gang of idiots. As one of the most important chefs and restaurateurs alive today (and he doesn't care), Dave educates the gents on food & the restaurant industry, being a dad, his early days as a golfer, and other juicy nugs. But most importantly: he's gonna' change Sean's life with the right way to make a tuna sandwich. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey there, Will Arnett here from SmartList. It's the podcast where Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, and I interview somebody. Two of us don't know who that person is because one of us has brought on a surprise guest. That's the whole conceit. I wish I could describe it better, but I'm not that smart. So it's SmartList, and it's starting now. Smart. Smart.

Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Hey, are we rolling? Are we doing this?

We're already podcasting. That's the great thing about podcasting. Sometimes you're just doing it and you don't even know. What about my tasty flair of God on my... Oh yeah, I saw that. Did you have JJ Abrams over? Yeah, I did. Hey, did you guys see that nexium thing, that documentary called The Vow?

Nexium is a little bit more for... Yeah, like if you have heartburn. Heartburn or loose stools. There's an entire documentary about... Loose stools and heartburn. Was I happy when my doctor said nexium? Like that kind of thing? It was that cult thing.

I know what you mean. I can't believe I haven't been back yet. It's so wild. I gotta say, and I mean this, and Sean, you know how much I love you and I've loved you for a long time. But... I feel like you could get caught up in a cult. Who says I'm not?

That's true. I feel like you could just drift away. By the way, this guy said... Okay, so wait, I gotta tell you. So the guy, the crazy sexual predator guy who runs the whole thing. Sounds like a great guy. Yeah, he sounds amazing. Women, but anyway. It's so fucked up, man.

It's really fucked up. But it's really fascinating that people can get sucked into that cult like that. I'm gonna be honest with you. I saw that thing, you and I, you asked me about that the other day. We were FaceTiming on a personal FaceTime. And I... Did I ask you about the vow? About, yeah.

And I thought, I don't... It just seems too dark for me. I mean, as much as I like to... I can't take that kind of stuff. Things is like, I'm fascinated by how somebody can believe that. Like, what point did you go? Can I get that? Yeah, that makes sense to me.

We're getting very close to a religious conversation, which I don't think would end well. No. And also we have a really, really great guest today that I'm excited to... Pope John Paul, no? No, it's... Could you imagine if we got...

Will's just walking. How great would it be if one of us was like, the Pope is here. That would never... And he still has the hat on and everything. Here comes Will's crappy intro. Let's hear it.

First of all, it's not going to be flattering. Speaking of crappy intros, I've heard some... I don't even try. I listen to the podcast. You don't try at all. Well, I don't want to insult the guest by trying to craft some big flowery thing. Trying to put any work into it? Yeah, this isn't for work.

This is just chat and giggle. Chat and giggle. Well, I am going to say this. Our special guest today is a really, really formidable person. He has accomplished so much in what I think is a pretty small amount of time.

This is a guy who... That's Webster. Really started a sort of square one, worked in a bunch of restaurants, then started his own restaurant, then started multiple restaurants and businesses, then started a very popular TV show

on PBS called Mind of a Chef, and then did his documentary series about food called Ugly Delicious. I've seen Ugly Delicious. He started Momofuku. Oh, my gosh. All those restaurants started in New York

and then Sydney and Toronto and Tokyo and Los Angeles and everywhere. God, he sounds loaded. I just want to get him in here so we can start talk to him. Our guest today... Unless he's left. ...is Mr. David Chang. Oh, yeah!

David Chang, look at him go. I'd love it if you were just chewing when we saw you. What a pleasure. I'm so psyched you're here, David. What an honor. Now, first of all, David, why? Listen, it's that voice. His voice is just so soothing.

I'll do anything. I'm going to Momofuku. You know what I mean? I'm just saying when you walk in. Wait, is that a new thing at the hostess table? I'm just saying when you walk in, if you walked in and you heard that, and you thought like, uh... Activated when the door opens.

A server will be by to take your order soon. Relax. Okay. I'd be like, I'm relaxed. And a little horny. Maybe a little bit. I'd be like, is this a fuck restaurant? What's going on? I've actually seen Ugly Delicious.

It's a great show, and you're amazing on it. I'm a big fan. Thank you. I need to go eat at your restaurant in Los Angeles. Now, Major Domo is the one that's not called Momofuku. Yeah, that's right. Major Domo. And the first time I went to Momofuku in New York, I went with our friend, David Cross,

years ago. You probably know David. Yeah, longtime supporter. I do. We did a show together, Will. Sorry, I'm talking to David, Jason. It was a cheap, easy joke. And he introduced me to the wonderful world of

your culinary delights. But you've done so much. It is hard to try to intro you because you are your... You're super young, right? Yeah, that's what I mean. Look at the guy. I'm 43 this summer. I don't feel young.

Wow. Jesus, that is old. Yeah, but all the... No, no, no. Don't make him feel bad. Only a 51-year-old can say that. Wait, when you open restaurant after restaurant, aren't you just like, isn't it just like a big, huge roll of the dice? Are you just like... Yes, it is.

Every time I finish opening a restaurant, I tell myself, I'm never going to do that again. Ever. I'm sure. But I would assume, obviously, the more you do, the longer you're around, the more your clientele becomes expanded and the openings become less risky, right?

And your brand is bigger, yeah. Yes and no. I mean, in some ways, they don't want us to do anything new, but they also want us to do something new. So you got to find that fine line of pushing the envelope but keeping it comfortable for everybody. Like a rock band. So you started, you worked at...

I think I've got this right. You worked in a bunch of restaurants and you worked... You worked for Tom Glicchio for a while at his restaurant. Top chef. Yeah, of top chef fame and you kind of bounced around. You worked at a bunch of different places. You decided I'm going to open my own shop

because to Sean's point, it's a big risk, it takes a lot of guts. What were those conversations like to go, I'm going to do this? Yeah. Well, truthfully, the main reason I decided to open up my own restaurant is I was never going to have my own restaurant

if I did it in a traditional way. Right. At all. There was just no way. What would the traditional way be? So, you know, I opened up in 2004 and I was still working for Dania Belude Cafe Belude in 2003. And, you know, I had cooked professionally for about four plus years. Not enough,

but I had, you know, traveled around seeing a lot of different things, worked abroad and if you wanted to open up your own restaurant back then, which wasn't that long ago, you had to be a patron to the restaurant and know the chef and say, hey, I'm moving back to Minnesota.

I want to open up a restaurant. Do you have a chef that you could like give me? And that's how, like, most people, most chefs got their own restaurants as a, you know, through someone they knew. No one was like, I'm going to open up my own restaurant. That almost never happened. And I'm

a relatively competitive person. I looked at the kitchen where I was at. I said, oh, I was probably 13 out of, you know, 13 in the progression of maybe I'll get my own kitchen. And I was like, I can't do this. I got to find a different way. And one of the things that I learned when I was living in Japan was,

you know, food didn't have to be super expensive to be good. And I just want to do something different. So I decided not to open up a French fancy restaurant and do something different. And that's why if I was better, truthfully, I probably

would never open up Momofuku. But you've talked about it before. You were kind of over fancy restaurants. You were kind of, you kind of had enough. Is that true? Yeah. I mean, I worked at most, if you ask a lot of people back then, they worked at fancy restaurants, not they cared about the food, per se, or the

clientele. It was the only place you could work with the best ingredients and learn the best techniques. So in some ways, you know, I got tired. I remember coming back and it was a lot of culture shock for me moving back to America and then being on the

Upper East Side and having to, you know, chop a salad even more and everything sauce on the side and custom, you know, making everything for all of these. So Jason ate there? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jason Bateman is well known in the culinary world as being one of the most difficult people to cook for.

I have the waiter pull up a chair. And this, I'm glad that you touch on this and Jason is definitely somebody who's guilty of this. But as a Canadian, the first time I I didn't experience that kind of like asking

for special stuff until I came to this country. First of all, I never do that. I'm one of my Meg Ryan. Poor Meg Ryan. Now she's in the same category as you. I mean Sally, Harry McSally. Isn't there a famous sort of

this? I'll have what she's having. No difference to anyone. Yeah, she was very picky. But I love that. I love what she's having. That's great. But what happens in that scene? I don't know the reference. But that idea of people going like, um, yes. And I remember like seeing some being with somebody the first time they like

sent food back. I was so embarrassed. I was like, Jesus Christ. And it wasn't because like there was something wrong with it. It was like it just wasn't the way they wanted it. Yeah. What I will do is if food shows up not hot I for me, it feels

like it doesn't taste as flavorful. And so I will even sushi. Yeah. I will ask the waiter to to see if they can throw it under the light longer or whatever. However, whatever happens. That's how they cook it. They just cook it with light.

Because I figured that the chef wants the food to be bursting with flavor and the colder it gets, the more muted the flavor gets. Or am I crazy? No, no, you're absolutely right. Hot food is supposed to be served hot. Cold food is supposed to be served cold. And if you go to a restaurant and you serve something that is

cold and it should be hot you have every right to send it back. Because I figured it's probably the waiter was too busy or the chef didn't want it at that temperature. So, yeah, anyway. But the thing is it's called a pass in most restaurants when the food hits sort of the organization

before it goes right out to the dining room. So much shit can go wrong by that time. Yeah. Of course, let me ask you this because you brought this up. I've always wanted to know and this feel like, is this a myth? We've all done it before. Somebody's like root to the waiter or whatever and you go like, oh, you're

guaranteed. Are they sent something back? Yeah, you're guaranteed for the whole kitchen's going to spit in your soup now or whatever. Without divulging any names, have you ever seen that happen? No, no, no, no. I mean, listen, it's hilarious. You know, I watched that movie waiting and I think a lot of people that are cooks

watch that movie because it's like something we wish we could do, but that's never anything anyone's ever seen. Great. So we can lay that to rest now. I mean, do people shit talk customers behind their back all the time? Yeah. Wait what? Yeah. I mean,

no, but I mean, if somebody sends a sense, Jason Bateman is out there. If somebody sends a plate back to be reheated, is that a common thing or should I be as mortified as I feel when I do do it? Which is not often. The only time it's a problem is when the customer's wrong, right? Right.

Right. Like, it happens all the time. Like, for example, oh, I think this bottle of wine is corked and it's not corked, right? Or this steak should be rare and it's not. The customer's actually wrong, right? And I think for years, even if the customer is wrong, the restaurant just sort of had

to eat shit. And I sort of decided I was no longer going to do that. I would tell the customer, no, you're wrong. Nice. Nice. I feel like I took us off on a tangent here and making David defend the restaurant industry and the people who are screaming like, fucking Jason Bateman's tail apparently

isn't hot enough. You took David and me down in your life. But I want I do want to get back to something you said. No, I just wanted to say, well, he's my guest and I want to hug this time with David. I'm so excited. I've only got three questions. Don't wear them all out. Let me say this.

You talked about being competitive and when you started the restaurant you were not a lot of people know this. I don't think that you were a golf prodigy as a kid. Yeah, it's weird to think about it that way. I mean, because obviously I never panned out as a golfer, but my dad

was way ahead of his time. Now if you go to the golf course or golf tournaments, you're going to see tons of Asian kids with their parents yelling at them. My dad was the OG Asian dad yelling at his son to be better at golf. Wow. You know, Will just got me re-addicted to golf and I played every

day for the last month. This whole interview is now going to go to golf. Listen. It was so uncool to play golf back then. Mind you, like no one. It's not that cool now either. It's not that cool now. But I burned out. I burned out really young. I mean, I won a bunch of tournaments

and there was this kid named Tiger Woods and Phil Nicholson. They were a little bit better than everybody else too. No way. So you were here in Los Angeles? No, I was. I grew up in Northern Virginia, but I remember trying to qualify for this tournament called The Big Eye in Houston.

And I never qualified, but for three years there was this kid that was a year or two older than me that was on the cover of the pamphlet. And I was like, how the fuck am I ever going to beat this guy? He's so much better than everybody back then. That was Tiger? Yeah. And so were you a plus or were you a scratch? I was, depending on the golf course,

my home golf club, I was a scratch. Good God. And what about now? The last time I played around a golf seriously was 2003 and I threw my golf clubs into the ocean at Old Head in Ireland.

And the 18th hole is this majestic thing overlooking the ocean and I literally was thinking to myself maybe I could practice and try for the tour or something like that. How old were you? I don't know. I was probably like 25, 26, because my dad has always said, oh, you have all these natural

gifts, but I never had the head game because I just was a basket case. And you know, the thing about Ireland is they don't have a lot of practice ranges. So you just like go there cold. Takes you four holes to figure out your swing. And I literally had like a quadruple bogey birdie and it was the most

schizophrenic round I've ever played. That sounds like my game, right? Except for the birdies. So I said, fuck this, I'm never going to play this ever again. I chucked my clubs in the ocean. My dad yelled at me and I was like, dad, I played for those golf clubs. So you have not played since? I played once last summer

and that was a I probably won't play again. Would you shoot something in the 90s? I shot like I think like an 88. Well, David, that's totally fine for a guy who's actually got a job and who never plays. I'm just the

golf does not bring me any joy whatsoever. I just I have to. Wow. I mean, I'm that kind of personality, addictive personality where if I had the chance, even though I don't like playing the game, I would play and practice all day to be that asshole that wins the club championship every year.

Yeah. Nobody likes that guy. Right. No, I got a danger too close to why did you stick with it for so long just because you had a gift for it. No, I'm scared of my dad father, right? Scared of my dad. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

But a good motivator, he put in some good work habits with you, right? And some thirst for excellence and winning and all that stuff and you pointed it towards restaurants. Well, I mean, it sort of became pathological, right? Of like the need to work harder, be

better, practice more. Yeah. But I say, but you but that's why I brought it up. You can see it in your in your work and your drive. Like you have you're very focused, even though you do a lot of your focus requires you to look in a lot of directions.

You still harness a lot of stuff at the same time, which is not easy to do. You know, it's a lot of restaurants, a lot of businesses. It takes a lot of determination and a lot of, you know, discipline, frankly. I've been lucky and I've been surrounded by and if this is not me being

modest, I just have really great people. I got way too much credit for all the things that happen. And I don't even cook in the restaurants really anymore. So, you know, I just, I don't know. And when I look back at everything that's happened, it's hard for me to believe that we did all that,

you know. Yeah. Hey, so on cooking on, you know, what does it take to be the best chef or one of the best? Obviously, you need to have great taste. No pun intended. Have you noticed that you are a better chef in

one country versus another country based on how you like to cook? Yeah. Does that make sense? No, it does make sense and it's exactly that. Every country, and I wouldn't even say every country around the world, even places in America are very different, right? Like

just for salt, for example, in Toronto, I feel that people want less salt in their food. New York always wants more salt in their food. And in Japan, you think with all the soy sauce, it'd be very salty. No, they want it sort of at their minimum salt in a lot of the food. That's

not say ramen or something like that. But in terms of the cuisine and the technique, it's certainly beneficial, I think, to be in America where it is sort of this amalgamation of different immigrants and different techniques. So if you say, you know,

or chef in Milan or Florence, Italy, it's hard to know the world because you're only cooking Italian food. Right. Right. And that is a benefit and sort of a negative simultaneously. Have you noticed what city or what area, what region

is more demands and more sort of healthier ingredients? Like can you actually determine that? Is there a clientele that seems like it wants something more stripped down than other places? For sure. I think it depends on

the customer, like the people that go to SoulCycle, you know that they're going to, I mean, you can almost like make a menu exactly for them. Right. The type casting of the kinds of food that people are going to like. For sure. Yeah. The funny thing with LA, you think people eat healthier. They

do. They eat healthy lunches. I find that a lot of people skip breakfast and they eat like total shit for dinner and with ride sharing. Right. People get fucking shit-faced now. Yeah. Yeah. Where they didn't use to. You're right. No. Yeah. It's been great for

restaurants. You know, when you see like, I had this doctor once when I saw him at this bar and he was smoking and I thought that was the craziest thing I've ever seen. A doctor smoking. And when I've seen you or chefs on certain shows just eating literally anything they want, I was like, yeah

because what I love about food is everyone has a different relationship to it. Right. Everyone is constantly thinking about it and like, should I eat more of this, less of this and the guilt associated with eating something you know is horrible for you, but tastes great. Like how much or how little should we listen to

that guilt or how much or how little do you listen to that guilt because party feels like I want what I want because it pleases me however I know that what pleases me isn't good for my body therefore I eat it but I'm miserable. You know what I mean? Right. You know, I think like most things when you're younger you can sort of eat

anything and I remember first tasting like foie gras or something like that which is just fat. Yeah. But it's so good but at some point it all catches up with you and I find that the older chefs get the less they want to eat the stuff that they actually make. Oh really?

Yeah. Getting back to the ride sharing thing have you noticed that in Los Angeles since Uber and Lyft and all that stuff came into play that the restaurant business increased because if for no other reason just the alcohol consumption could happen like in New York I would imagine people would make money on alcohol

for years because you're jumping in a cab but in LA you always have to factor in that long drive home now no longer. Has the money gone up? I mean yes before COVID 100% and that was a real boon for the industry because that's how you make money really

in any kind of restaurant business as beverages and you know bottle of wine or several cocktails adds up and again if you are eating in LA more often than not before ride sharing most people wouldn't indulge with that second third or fourth drink

they'd have maybe one and that would be it. You brought up COVID What is it? Yeah I guess what is it sorry let me just write notes. No like a noodles place? Just the Obviously COVID has

completely changed not just restaurants but the economy and how we do everything What do you think the future of restaurants is going to be post-COVID? Do you have a prediction? Yeah I do and it has it's not a good one. I just spoke with Senator Gillibrand

to a bunch of I don't even know who the hell was on the zoom call but I've been saying this since March and it has not been a popular take and I wish I wasn't right but I said I think that 90% of all independent restaurants will close without intervention from the government and I think I'm right I think maybe it's

85% 90% Is that because the occupancy limitations? Yeah I mean it's 25% depending on like New York is 25% indoors Las Vegas is say 50% I think California is 25% still. Everything's the same. The economics are still the same

the fixed costs haven't changed and I'll tell you if you're not 100% occupancy for a restaurant you're losing money. I heard Tom Clicchio say this kind of pitched this thing on the Bill Mar Show Tom had suggested like he had this whole idea of why

when this happened, when this pandemic happened didn't the government utilize all the restaurant businesses to feed people to then keep the restaurant businesses the economy going that way when there's all these shortages at farms and with milk

and produce and meats I thought it was a great idea. No it's an idea that was certainly floated and the government not a surprise they decided not to do it because Sean don't get pissed off I thought this was a real opportunity

I thought you could have had Susie the Sausier in 2020 and getting subsidized by the government to do something that communities needed and it just hasn't happened. I always wanted to ask somebody like you an incredibly accomplished chef we always want to know

what you eat and what you like because these guys know that I'd literally do anything anybody wanted for a free milkshake or a cookie and if you had to eat the same thing or a cookie cake or the same thing for a week what would it be

what is your sugar if you had to pick how about a donut chunk same thing for one week I don't know man okay then forget that I'd probably choose fried chicken sorry David you should know the reason he's asking

is because he quite literally eats a tuna sandwich with plain chips every day for lunch is that real? on a paper plate almost every day or a peanut butter sandwich wait tell me about this tuna sandwich are you making this tuna sandwich yourself or are you buying it from like a deli

great question both but I make it most of the time I just put the tuna the canned tuna what kind of tuna are you using spring water or olive oil water no oil no oil that's not a good thing number one you lose there that's gross what do you mean no because

I put mayonnaise in it and celery and that's it yeah but even still spring water tuna that's come on you got to change it let me ask you this is there too much mercury in tuna I don't know that answer well then we got to go wait wait wait like walk us through it Sean this is a great line

cause David wants to know cause David this is his area of it so you're like Scotty I'm going to make some lunch and so you slip slip slip into the into the kitchen slipper slipper huh sorry

and you're like somebody get some fucking WD-40 in here the fucking closet is still creaking so then you take out a can of tuna what do you got you got the I usually do two star kiss yeah chewed cans well cause you're exercising a lot probably

so you've got the two cans you got the two cans of star kiss tuna yeah and water and then you do the thing and you just by hand you don't have one of those automatic no it's a hand thing it's a miracle whip to bring out the best foods

and bring out the best best foods we don't need the jingle just the brand best foods mayonnaise how much mayonnaise how much mayonnaise all you can handle that's the only good thing I've heard so far okay and so and the celery and I have to eat it with celery

texture now see but now a great chef will think about what the size of those celery cuts are going to be correct David correct Jason you are very accurate so now we know this David what would you do if you if it occurred to you that you wanted to make a tuna

salad sandwich how would you go about it and for real how would you make it different well I wouldn't use tuna in spring water because I think it's just too bland you might as well eat a like drink a soylent shake at that point I am open to it I mean I just think the olive

oil is is better and better tasting and there's better brands not to be a total fucking snob there's better brands of canned tuna as well be a snob be a snob so I would I probably do that although downstairs I probably have some sun kissed as well and then sarcast

you got a two-story house here or is it a basement is it a basement I've been lost some onions like I finally diced some onions and some celery and then I probably add a little bit more lemon juice and then I do mayonnaise I didn't use best foods I'd use a mayonnaise called QP which is from Japan

and I do some salt and pepper and maybe a little bit of agave for sweetness to bring it out wow that's a whole new level of some sweetness now here is what kind of bread would you put it on David sorry just a we're gonna flash toast the bread yeah I would toast the bread a little bit maybe a multi-grain type

of sure yeah would you put butter on that on that toast shut the hell up unnecessary so David no Sean no David David this is my problem with cooking you've just described a 45-minute process

for a five-minute sandwich and that's why I don't cook well no that's why that's well that's not why main reason and then and then and then 20 minutes to clean everything I just said I can make it under five minutes wow see

so David I want to swing back I'm not a swinger swing back to what golf I want to I wanted to swing back to something you were talking about playing golf with your dad and your dad actually did your dad partner with you on one of your in your first restaurant

he did is that true yeah there was a lot of family drama going on and I obviously had a contentious relationship with my dad here we go let's tuck into this yeah I want to know that grab it you have any alcohol there David just start start sipping we're gonna get you crying in about 20 minutes he just

he never said like I love you or anything very stern asian father and there was a lot of shit going on personally and in my family and is your dad still with us no he's not he passed away recently sorry about that I'm sorry it's all good and I remember

being like a lot of my friends are going to graduate school and I was like fuck it I I saw how much money I might need to start this restaurant I was like it's cheaper than graduate school and then I would also remember being well if I'm 26 years old and I have to declare bankruptcy then that's not so bad

but you didn't lead with that with your conversation with your dad I think I did I said listen I'm I'm doing this with or without you and I'm going to raise the money I said you know and I think he offered and he and he got three of his friends and they pitched in a loan that I

paid back in two years 125 grand and I'm very fortunate very fortunate obviously but I even got to the point of thinking about doing crazier things like actually applying to school using the graduate like money loan and then bankroll in the school that way

I was going to do something crazy that was a lot of pressure then to not only did you know that your dad specifically had his eye on you for excellence and you wanted to make him proud but now you're asking for his seed money as well that must have felt great to pay him back

and for him to have seen the incredible success you've had before he passed did he ever give it up to you about the success you know how he did it he told me a few years back stop working so hard did he really

wow that was his way do you have kids now I do I have a 19 month old and so wasn't the blessing in disguise to have a father like that so you can just shower your kid with tons and tons of love yeah it's been amazing I'm definitely the father that I'm not

what if you were like no I'm exactly the same way and I don't want to receive my kid you get into that fatherhood before in Ugly Delicious I think it's season 2 in the first episode when you find out the reveals that you and your wife are expecting a baby boy and

you really one of the great things about that show was it wasn't just about food it was about how food kind of connects us and how what food the role it's played in your life and how it's connected you to your family and was connecting you to your new family and I was really really moved

by that episode the way you talk to your mom and your sister and your mother-in-law and your wife and then you kind of go investigate other people and you talk to other restaurateurs about their relationship I forget that restaurant in Oregon your friend has that cool restaurant

yeah Peter Peter's restaurant what's it called oh Kano Kano yeah and he lives there he lives on one side of the restaurant and then and it's kind of like there's just like a wall separating the kitchen and his kitchen and I just love the way that there are because I feel the same way that there is no division

we can't put our lives into these different boxes it's all one big soup you know and nice these lives that we live thank you or stew mm-hmm better go I'm not married to a soup but I could go either way broth

broth is good yeah because broth cleaner yeah it's cleaner that's in your show too about how broth is like a such a huge but I just love the way that you broke that down that like it's all connected in the way that we live our lives and that we can't compartmentalize and that it's all just like this big

and I was really impressed with your connection to family and how important it was to you and I wonder now you know now meeting you because you were so nervous about becoming a dad and you're so honest about it and and I remember your mom saying that you were

going to be great parents she said your wife was going to be even better well yeah that's what she said the only reason I'd be a good parent was because of my wife yeah I know I remember I'm glad to say you're still mad about that but but did all your dreams come true did it happen the way you thought it would you know being a dad has been

amazing and I think it's been the only highlight of quarantine because my son's not old enough to go to school and drive me crazy but being a dad has been amazing because all I did was work or go out and have just do whatever I wanted to do and I never intended

to think that I would ever have a family or I thought I'd just be a bachelor my entire life and still thinking about it or options always there but being a dad has caused me to being a husband has I think caused me and forced

me not forced I think I've willingly tried to be better and to grow up I think it's taken me a long time to decide to grow up instead of being a fucking jerk yeah is that what made you nervous about the prospect of being a parent about the sort of responsibility that would immediately come

or was it more tied in to sort of like your experience as a child there was that you know I definitely didn't want to raise my future child the way I was raised but I wanted to be present I wanted to I didn't know how it would affect

how I worked right yeah and that was my big concern is how do I find a division between work and life and you know it's something I'm still trying to figure out yeah you know even when my son was born pre-COVID right I travel a lot right whether it's

filming TV or the restaurants or whatever shit I gotta do I mean I think it's like probably five almost a little over five months a year I'm on the road and even when I am at home working you know it's I see you in the morning and I'll see you the next morning

right you know and I think that's how a lot of my friends now in LA most of my friends in New York saw their kids you know they're with their nannies or somebody that's looking after the kids but their parents are working and you know I I just was like man I want to be a dad

that's literally my number one job I want to be good at is be a dad like that if you ask me what you care about the most obviously I want to make sure that I can financially take care of my family and the people that work for me and the company but I think overall my

priority when I found out my wife was pregnant was I want to be something that I think I'm going to be terrible at which is being a dad are you still enjoying the entrepreneurship of opening multiple restaurants like is it still excite you invigorate you get you out of the bed in the morning

I mean yeah it changes it changes it's this post COVID world we'll see what happens right but two years ago I stepped down as CEO and we have other people in place for the culinary decisions if anything I feel like I'm just like a guidance

counselor so I been focusing a lot more on media so I can it does sound lucrative though this is why we have the two-story house guys sorry keep going David it could be three good point so you know that's where I'm at is I don't know

you know we're facing some challenging times and I always say again I'm never going to do another restaurant and yet I always do another goddamn restaurant what would be the natural progression for somebody like yourself and to piggyback on that

is there something else you want to you dreamed of doing ever you know I'm these are really hard-pressing questions for me right now well this is a tough listen we the hard one told me you guys would be the toughest smart we need an answer when we make

Leslie Stull look easy okay I'm out of here I think for me career-wise just like what I want to cook is very different and I'm trying to find some metaphor analogy but I just while I always care about

eating in a fancy restaurant all these things like now I just want to cook or make things that are just wholesome and pure like a sandwich or piece of pizza I don't want the artist like a tuna sandwich even a tuna sandwich right I care more about not about winning awards or I just want to do

that is good simple as that and I don't care about winning awards either that's why I never win him because I'm like you know what I don't want him currently the the big awards go to those places that design a plate that's almost doesn't even

look like food right the artistry of it the way that it's all it's like an Oscar film you know like best picture there's a certain film you know that's not necessarily populist but it's it's complicated I get I think I've always wanted to be something that's populist but even still now I just would rather

serve a bowl of chili yeah yeah I mean like that to me is more appealing both in taste and how someone might consume it you know you have a restaurant that's kind of lo-fi like that yeah but it's still not exactly where it could go and I don't even think it could be

a restaurant right the kind of food that I personally the thing is I'm making more food now at home than ever before what about like a diner what do you do with your leftovers and just give me your address real quick give it outside I'd be good for leftovers David but my restaurants are hard

man yeah so damn hard where do you stand on design or do you just punt that to a partner I mean originally I didn't care about design or service it's true like if you talk to anybody about the restaurants our restaurants were like jail cells very minimal

no comforts very loud music and very much in your face young and obnoxious and it was very punk rock in some ways without being punk right and I like the hard challenge and I wanted to win someone over with nothing but the food

yeah going back to what I was at like is there something completely outside of the culinary world that you always dreamed of doing or you would want to kind of dabble in or Sean has it Sean has he has to ask that question I want to pitch you some ideas yeah he can't he can't not ask that

because I'm always interested in what other people are interested in other than the thing they're known for well I'm sort of doing that you know I I'm I'm like sort of trying to figure out what that is I'm still will always be related with food I think we're making a bunch of

consumer product goods like sauces and salts and stuff we're going to get into the hard goods business and part of this is how should I phrase this I like to do things that people think are stupid right or like it's not cool go on and if you ask a lot of guests or even

like a younger version of me would you sell pots and pans or fucking a line of sauces I'd be like what a fucking sell out in some ways it's like how do you turn that yes it's maybe selling out but how do you make it awesome so you can put in the component of like Paul Newman where he

sort of became somewhat philanthropic selling salad dressing money away listen let me just tell you this David there's no such thing as selling out there's only buying in okay full stop do you talk about

all these places to go where do you like to go I mean all things being equal and you know without COVID etc when you're sitting at home and it's like you know you look at your watch and you look at your wife and you're like let's go I really want to have something that's satisfying and going to make me feel good where do

you what's the first place you think of in New York it's a sushi restaurant called Shuko in downtown in like so the West Village it's so good okay you know it's different what streets it on I think it's like 12th Street between 5th and 6th or

Greenwich and Broadway what about Los Angeles we're in Los Angeles man that's the thing that LA there's so many places but really that arts district is sort of where the the newer spots are which is amazing to me the best you guys bobble hey Jason try to sound

older by the way yeah what is it no art district is where all the new kids me and the lady Jesus you know what just take yourself out to the shed and kill yourself I say I do not get out David what about this spago I've been hearing

about there's so many good spots I went to once I'm not so he said we went and it's not cheap and it was it was us and it was Thoreau and she to Jones and we decided to play the credit card roulette and whoever lost had to pay for the meal and Thoreau lost

and he was so mad for real that he because he's and I'll say this he's so cheap and he it's just us talking it's just us talking he won't be right he didn't fucking listen to our show he cries when he orgasms too apparently

every time and I'm always there to wipe the tears it's weird remember when we can remember when we could go out and eat we're still recording can you just up the energy a little bit what about the tower bar

what about the tower bar hey lady Sean can you pull the pamphlet into the frames so we can see the Scotty bring another pill in for you it's almost night night time it's five fingers of

chardonnay the pill and then he's out and a cup of tuna I can't wait I get excited around this time of day wait a second before we lose our shit the last thing David I want to ask you about your book can you talk a little bit about your new

book yeah eat a peach great song yeah fuck man it's out it's a memoir you can read about my crazy life I don't even understand why it's out there I've been pretending that it didn't happen that's the easiest way

for me to get through life it's so revelatory you're so open and honest in it so it's kind of like you have to pretend right that everybody's not reading about your what you're thinking about did you read it did you read it for an audio book I did

I don't know that's why I was like your voice you guys are so good at doing this shit I don't know how it's I was of course I read all the criticism and first thing yeah he shouldn't have he shouldn't have read his own book never never read any criticism

or reviews because if you believe the good ones you got to believe the bad ones too so are you like avoiding phone calls no no I mean it's it's been I think incredibly well received we were supposed to it was supposed to come out in May and we had like a 21

city book door so that's not happening but you know it's just weird because I don't know it's not only weird that the book is there it's weird that I'm such a competitive person and I'm like fuck you know I got to beat all these

goddamn Trump books all order right now David listen we've taken up too much of your time already I can't thank you enough man I think you're such a cool dude and and you've done so many amazing things in you know I just wish you nothing but success

and thanks for coming here and giving us your time I'm so glad I'm at you David I'm gonna make you a tuna fish sandwich now that's that's what I gotta do Sean I would love to see your version of that I would love by the way yes I would kill to taste that no I'm serious I'm going to we're gonna I'm gonna get you

your info and I'm gonna make you something that hopefully you will enjoy I would kill for that that's so cool thank you David yeah leave it outside in the sun for a few hours and I'll pick it up I thank you for being with us thank you David thank you David see you later

man thanks guys I feel like we have a good shot at getting a table inside of a week yeah instead of a week the three of us could call and say like Sean and Jason and we'll want to want to come in for for dinner and they want it to be gratis he literally just texted me

right like we should because we're friends they'll probably throw in the desserts maybe right you think maybe you know me I don't like dessert you know how much I love dessert right I know angel I love it so much yeah I loved him though he was great he's uh

super normal yeah super normal and such a like huge family guy and really I implore our listener to watch second season of ugly delicious episode one and what he's really struggling with when he finds out that he's gonna have a kid it's it's such a beautiful kind of

exploration of himself he's really honest about himself he's like I don't know if I'll be any good I think I'm gonna be a terrible dad he's really worried will you stop rolling up your sleeves yeah it's so gross why is just like pulling he's wearing a short-sleeve shirt he's just pulling up the sleeves and making it a tank top

I don't want to look at your dumb guns how are they they're dumb are they not great well I guess they're good all right they're fine well we should probably go look at my noodles my forearm is bigger than my biceps what's wrong with me yeah so like a ramen noodle just like a really

take a photo of it insta he doesn't he doesn't insta he don't you don't have an instagram yet do you he does is he talking about take take an instant picture instagram like the polaroid well post take a picture of him post it to jason take it to the post office so long

it's been let me just see how many steps I've got left because I did a lot of mailing already today I mailed my wife a letter she's right next to me but the journey was incredible I mailed her a letter every day to let her know I love her

all right we should probably kick it we should wrap it up love David the other thing is bye bye smart less

smart less