SmartLess - "Denis Villeneuve"

Episode Date: December 16, 2024

Life is in session right now, with Denis Villeneuve. Twilight anesthesia, addiction to power, teenage dreams… and Paddles still makes it to dinner. We are not a medical podcast; it’s an all-new SmartLess. Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to listen to new episodes ad-free and a whole week early.

I want you guys to know, I hope you're rolling on this. You ready? Here we go. I want you guys to know that this morning, this is the most serious cold to open. Yes. I've been in a rough place and this really, I feel like I've shared a lot in the last year of being in a rough place, but I have been, a lot going on. And this saved me this morning after a few days. I love that.

It really saved me knowing. You might not have made it to lunchtime. No, I wouldn't have made it. I wasn't going to take my own life, but I was in a pretty bad place. And knowing that I was coming here and then getting on and seeing you guys, this has just made my day.

That's it. No joke. Isn't that nice? And is that why you took a little shower, a little self-care, combed your hair, put on a nice top? I wanted to look nice for you guys. You know, I wanted to show up here and be respectful of the process.

The thing I can count on is you two ding-dongs. Yeah. And then the other three ding-dongs who we work with as well, Rob and Bennett and Michael. I know it's a late Thanksgiving. It's been a minute, but I want to say thank you. And I'm very grateful for you guys. We love you.

And we thank you. And you make our day, too. Anytime you want. And so let's I'm very grateful for you guys. We love you and we thank you and you make our day too. Anytime you want. And so let's try to make other people's days and let's get into a nice fresh episode of Smartless. Smart. Less. Smart. Less. I was speaking of medical conditions. I know, I can't even. I can't even.

You don't wanna talk about it? We can talk, I'm an open book, I'll talk about anything. Shaunie wakes up in the middle of the night with his heart thingy for everybody other than Tracy, the reminder is he's got an Afib situation, right? Which necessitates the paddles at the emergency room every once in a while. It's just insane.

It's like if you had a car that would constantly just like have trouble getting started, you would eventually replace the battery. So you're replacing me on SmartList? Well, nor just your heart. No, we thought about it for one second. We never even... Can we get you on a list for a fresh pump?

We didn't do a deep dive. So he wakes up in the middle of the night and his heart's not working correctly or so he thinks. And so he doesn't want to wake up Scotty. So he calls away Mo for himself and gets himself to the ER. And Scotty wakes up later with a phone call from Sean from the ER saying, hey buddy, I'm here, just wanna give you a heads up.

So I guess it's kind of nice that he doesn't wanna trouble Scotty and worry him and just calls him from. J.B., not once, twice. Yeah, on the same night. I got cardioverted twice, so I went under and then Jimmy Kimmel calls me paddles, right, because of this. So paddles got it twice that night, where my cardio,

and yeah, it was pretty scary. And yet you still made it out to dinner the following night. You weren't in a great place that night. No, I was a little foggy, I was a little foggy. Oh yeah, of course you were. More so than usual. You've been electrocuted twice. Your body had been, you know, that's a lot.

So what, are we all right? By the way, the nurse told me, wow, before I did it, she goes, you know, I had a big tough cop come in here once, and he said, I don't want to be put under when you do the paddles, you know, clear, go, and the cop is like, he's like, I don't want it, I don't want to be put under. She's like, sir, no, everybody is put under. She's like, nope, nope, I don't want it. And she goes want to be put on her. She's like, sir, no, everybody is put on her. He's like, nope, nope, I don't want it.

And she goes, I've never heard somebody scream so loud in my entire life. The guy got with Claire Gronk and he was like, ah! Why, because it hurts when it's an electrical shock, right? Well, your whole body goes, it's like being tased. Right, how do you know where it's like being tased? Sean tased. That's your new name, it's not paddle, Sean Taze.

Sean Taze. All right, that's enough. Yeah, I mean, you got, weren't you tased once at an Indigo Girls concert or something? What's the story on that? You had parked your Subaru with all the stickers coexist and all that stuff. You had parked, you were at... We used to say in stickers coexist and all that stuff. You were at Part, you were at... We used to say in college for the Indigo Girls. You were in Bandora again.

Okay, keep going, sorry. No, I said it's college and we'd say if you take the N and the O out of Indigo Girls, it says I did girls. Yeah. Thanks everybody. What a college. Now was this, this was at Harvard?

What a college. Hey, Sean, just to close the loop, are you on the backside of figuring out this heart thing? Yeah, I'm going today after this. I just wanna say this, all jokes aside, I and we, I speak for Jason, love you very, very much. Likewise. And the idea of you not being fully well

is very distressing to me, to be honest. Well, thanks. And I want to make sure that you're okay. So are we doing, is there anything else? Yes, today I'm going to like a super specialist. But what does that mean? You're going up into the thigh again. Like, are we knocking you out again?

Like, is this major surgery? It's not surgery, it's just, it's like a two hour procedure. So it's not a general, it's just that the... Or an hour. It's not even two hours, it's an hour. You getting the twilight? Propofol. Propofol, yeah.

Oh, the greatest of all. This is what's driving all of this. You're so addicted to anesthesia. It's pretty beautiful. I know, what is, you know what happens to Mr. Jackson, right? Well, I'm not taking it to sleep. Well, you know, slippery slope. JB, you had it, right, when you got your thing?

What did I have? When we had our things, when we all had our things looked at. What happened? When they went up our butts. Oh, no, you mean the body scan? Who looked at what? A body scan?

No, you're talking about a colonoscopy, right? Yeah, remember? Yeah, that's just a twilight. Is that propofol? That's propofol. Now, like the cop cop I requested no anesthesia Come on keep the respectable guest Okay, let's well, let's hear it here's the go to the intro JB. This is great

Yeah, hey guys fresh off the pages of Wikipedia comes his very special He always talks about his special intro that he does and it turns out he looked at it, again it goes back to that thing that I hate which is people go like I did some research and I'm like oh do you have the internet? I do too. That's my wife's line. I've never, I never say I've done research on anything. I know you don't. Man, today we have simply put one of our finest filmmakers living in the world, okay? His films have received 28 Academy Award nominations, taken home nine of them and grossed nearly $2 billion.

His films have captured the small and the nuanced human condition as well as the enormous scope and scale of sci-fi's most complicated stories. Guys, he's our perfect guest. For Will, he's a Canadian, for me, he's a beast of a director, and Sean, he's a titan in the sci-fi world right now.

Ladies and gentlemen, here he comes, Denis Villeneuve. No way! You're kidding me. Oh my God, no way! I feel bad to interrupt your conversation. I apologize for the length of it. I was learning a lot of dramatic things. Oh, boy.

Put out the plastic, please. You speak French? A little bit,. It's incredible that you're here today, Denis. You speak French? A little bit, but it's incredible. I just wrote you an email, like a dorky email, like three or four months ago. I don't know if you got it. You did? Yes. Hold on. Do you know him? No. It's just a fan email.

Yeah, I just wrote you an email, just like, oh my God. He got it, but no comment. That's right. What was it, was it notes? Was it notes on a locked picture? It was notes on Arrival. You did? I'm not sure I got that email.

I'm sorry. But you know, Arri rival I've seen, I don't know how many times, I just think it's one of the best movies ever, ever. I mean, it's just incredible. Thank you, Sean. Yeah, I- So, so much good work, my goodness.

Thank you. That's it. That's it, yeah, that's the interview. Thank you for joining us, bye now. All right, I go back in the dark. No, no, no. All right, so- Yeah, but it was pretty dramatic because I don't know you gentlemen

and it was a very intense conversation you were having about your common friend that is having a heart attack. Right, but you know. I feel that. It actually sounds more intense than it is. Like, AFib, AFib doesn't cause a heart attack. Untreated, it can cause a stroke,

but AFib itself is not that serious, I'm told. We are not a medical podcast. We are not giving any. I want a second opinion on all of this. It's just too common, these trips to the fricking emergency. Anyway, well, you know, we're all of that age. Denny, you're near us, right? We're all in our mid-50s, or close to it.

All this shit starts to wobble a little bit. The nuts on the wheels start to get a little loose, right? And we all start like, take it. We are at that peak and now we're starting slowly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stuff starts to ache. Let's think that we're maybe plateauing. Before we get to the downhill, Denny,

let's think that we're just enjoy a little plateau. We're on that plateau, yes, yes. Keep talking about this part. But we talk about it, we end up talking about a lot of this stuff, because Jason says, because it's happening, and also we're friends, and it's, I don't know about you guys, it does seem like,

I said to Sean the other day, life is in session right now. It does feel like in the world, life is in session. Yeah, for sure. And you have to, I've had a certain amount of, not to get lately of surrender to it and just like, I can't fight it, I have to kind of go with the flow a little bit these days and I'm concerned about things

with health and with family and friends. Yeah, I literally listed all the things Will's going through last night. He's like, oh yeah, wow. But everybody is. Nothing's happening to me, life is just happening. And so anyway, so Denny, you're catching us in a moment where this is about as philosophical as we get.

Yeah, yeah, that's it. But the thing is that it's good that Sean is actually taking care of it and making tests as difficult as we get. The bad thing is when you have a surprise that comes out of nowhere. I lost a friend of mine that was like 58, Jean-Marc Vallee, the director of Dyer's Buyers Club. Biggest surprise, he was a healthy guy. And he just fell on the floor, bang. And it's things that's good that you,

at least you know you are taking care of it. There's someone say, so it's gonna be good. Yeah, you have, and that gives you perspective, right? When you have that sort of, when you get that contrast, and when you see that happen, and these guys know I lost my friend, my dear friend Jeremy last year, quite suddenly as well. And that sort of, when you get that contrast, when you see that happen, and these guys know I lost my friend, my dear friend Jeremy last year, quite suddenly as well, he wasn't even,

I guess he was, had just turned 53 at the time. And it was very sudden. And it really does, it really puts everything in perspective a little bit, you know? For me it did, I don't know about you with losing your friend, but the perspective was. Absolutely, absolutely, it was a little bit, you know, for me it did I don't know about you with losing your friend, but it the perspective Absolutely, absolutely. It's a big shock. Yeah, the things that the doctor said is what is shocking and what we don't accept is that People actually have days of peremption. I mean there's a

Sometimes we are meant to be of a certain length and yeah, I mean some people are meant to live less long It's it's it's shocking but it's true. And expiration date. Yeah, expiration date. I was doing French, sorry. No. That the peremption. Well, somebody put it well the other day to me. They said, life is a journey, death is a destination.

You know, it's true, because we're all going there. That is true, that is true. And it's like, what do you do with your time? Are we using our time correctly? We're at that age where we are sort of at, past the midway point, we're at that age where you start losing your parents, and mortality really comes into focus.

And have you used your time well to this point, and what are you gonna do with your remaining time? A wonderful theme in all of Danny's work. Yes, exactly. But it's a team that is one of the main theme of Arrival and that's one of the thing that I loved about the short story. It was based on the story of your life

written by Ted Chiang. That is a little masterpiece. And it's about, yeah, living to the present time to make the best out of it and not to be afraid of living because of the fear of death. And that I thought was a nice thing in this movie. In the short story, sorry. First of all, I didn't know it was based on a short story,

Sean, you knew that. You have to read the short story. The short story is a masterpiece. It's like 28 pages or something, written by Peng Cheung, a very, very strong sci-fi writer. And it's like a little's a little gem, yeah. I'm gonna look it up today. And I also think just hearing you say that reminds me of,

it's really brought into focus to, it seems almost elementary, like kind of so obvious, but you gotta tell the people you love that you love them. And you've gotta make the most of those. It's not about living the most you want. Like I'm gonna go out and I'm going to parachute today or whatever. It's more that go and spend time and tell the people

you love that you love them and be as loving as possible. And I've really been. I think so too. You know, I just saw this thing, Willie, everybody, that the pastor was saying at a commemorate, what is it called? A speech at a college, commencement speech.

And he said, he goes, I've seen thousands of people die. I've been on the, you know, are hundreds or thousands of whatever he said, standing next to them on their deathbed. And he goes, not one person said in their last breath, bring me all my awards. I want to see my awards one more time. Bring me my certificate from college. I just wanna see my awards one more time. Bring me my certificate from college,

I just wanna hold it one more time. And he said, what people ask for are the people that they love, like Will was just saying, and that's the only thing they don't say, bring me all the stuff I made. All the achievements I've made. They say, bring me the people I love. And that's it. Well, Danny, I imagine you get access

to some of the greatest writers, stories, ideas, scripts. Is there, it must be hard to pick and is there something that jumps out at you quickest when a project comes before you? You know, if it's a story about mortality or the human condition or just the human part of something. Is there something that you really like to make movies about sort of a through line that exists in everything?

It's a good question because through the movies I've made, I always have the weird impression sometimes that the movie are choosing me more than I. It's like the project comes and there's something, a connection that is sometimes difficult to explain that is very intimate with the project. But recently I've been more drawn towards books that I, all books that have been with me since a long time, like the Dune books, the books that I have been with me since a long time.

Like the Dune books, the books that I read when I was a teenager. Those books have deep roots in my mind, in my soul, and those books have been with me through the years. And I know that because I have a relationship of decades with these books, I know that because I have a relationship of decades with these books, I know that it means something so deep that it makes sense to spend years trying to adapt them. I would have the same relationship with a book that I am starting to work on

in adaptation of Arthur C. Clarke Rendez-vous with Rama, which is a space movie that takes place in space. It's a book that I've read when I was very young again. It's a book that stayed with me through the years and when you have roots like that. But to answer to your questions, yeah, existentialism movie about our, why are we here? I love that. our why are we here? Yeah, I was going to say, yeah. Right. I love that. And then is it somewhat daunting to,

especially with books that you love, that you've had as a part of you for so long, is it brutal to try to adapt those? Because most books are too long to fit inside of a 120 page script, and so you've got to get rid of a lot of stuff. Now with Dune, fortunately, you were able to break it up into two parts and the second one was the second half

of the book. Massive fan. Massive fan. As opposed to a sequel. So it's just you broke the book up into two films, which is incredible. The third one potentially. Three, right?

Well the third coming up, right, is a brand new story. It's the second book that will be the adaptation of Dune Messiah, which is the second book. The first movies were about that first book, Dune. It is, the first artist I've approached when I decided to make this adaptation was Hans Zimmer, because I was just out of a movie with him and I absolutely adore working with him on Blade Runner. He's amazing, yeah. 2049 and... For Tracy, that's the composer Hans Zimmer.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he... Why did you choose the composer first? Because I knew that I will need, the score in Dune will be essential, will be absolutely crucial to the success of the movie to bring that kind of sacred quality that I wanted. And also because it's like, it's a matter of context.

I was working with Hans, he asked me, what will you do next? And we were talking about Dune and I saw his face change because it's his favorite book too. And we start to talk about it and brainstorm about it. And Hans said to me that he had not seen the David Lynch movie because he wanted to stay pure, a virgin. He didn't want to see.

He said, one day I know I'm going to make the score for a new adaptation. I want to know nothing about what has been done. I want to stay. Why am I talking about this? to know nothing about what has been done. Why am I talking about this? Is it a good idea to get close to a teenager dream? To try to bring to the screen something that is so dear into our hearts. art and it is dangerous. You're meant to fail, you're gonna fail. It's like you have to accept

that you're gonna fail, that you will be able to bring a little bit of it, a part of that dream on screen and the rest will be far away from it. And that space between what you achieve, what you were able to bring and the things that are different means that I have space to grow and to get better to make another movie. If I had absolutely succeeded, then I'd be in deep trouble. By that measure, Denis, by that measure, it would seem that if you were to look at it, trying to hit that target of that dream, of a teenage dream, if you will, if you were to do that to the letter,

to the number, to be exact, that would be in effect the failure because the success would be everything beyond that, the unknown that you would bring that's new, right? Like that idea. I wonder if, you know, I think about the films that you've made and they have such scope to them. They are these, there's a sort of an epic nature

to all of them. I'm such a, like Sean, I'm, and Jason, I'm such a massive fan of your films. And I wonder, they're so ambitious visually, storytelling wise, all of it musically, all those elements, they are so ambitious, visually, storytelling wise, all of it, musically, all those elements, they are very ambitious, they are very big. And what was the, was there a moment when you were young,

when you saw a certain film or a certain type of film, you said, that's, because for me, and Jason, you may be able to answer this too, as a director, are there moments where you go, this is where I want to go? Like, this is the kind of thing that inspires me. But there's one, I remember that one of the first movies that had a big impact on me was, and I saw it on TV,

frankly, was 2001, Space Odyssey. When I saw that film, I was like, woof. That really was like almost a trauma at first. Yeah. Those apes, being afraid of that sculpture in the middle of the desert, like almost a trauma at first. Being afraid of that sculpture in the middle of the desert, it was so frightening and strange and poetic and powerful images. I would say that discovering the work, when I was young,

discovering the work of Steven Spielberg, it was through Close Encounter of the Third Kind. That's a movie that really blew my mind when I was a kid. Also, when I saw Blade Runner the first time, that is another one, the original Blade Runner. That was something that I really... And I'm a Star Wars generation. I had the first movie that I asked my parents to see in the theater the first time. I really, and I'm a Star Wars generation. The first movie that I asked my parents to see

in the theater, the first time I said I want to see that, usually they were bringing me to the theater, but first time I said I would love to see that, looking at my dad's newspaper, it was Star Wars. And that was something that changed, I remember the oomph, the energy coming out of this movie. It was incredible at the time. I was 10 years old, like probably you.

I was like the target audience. I was like, the impact of that film was insane. And we will be right back. And now back to the show. Well, you know, something that I love about, I think 2001 might be my favorite film. And the thing that I think really draws me to it time and time again is not only the music,

but the, and his composition, et cetera. But something that I just realized while you were talking that it does so well that your films do incredibly well is, as Will said, your scope. Your scope, your ability to cinematically capture scope and scale in the obvious large scale, but also in the internal scale as well, the massive scope of a human's internal experience

in a certain story. Like there are things that are incredibly small and intimate that goes on in 2001, as well as the obvious external large scope of space and these machines and Etc talk a little bit about Your ability to capture that and and did the departments that you're drawn to in filmmaking that that allow for you to travel as as wide on the internal journey of a character as well as the external of

These these massive undertakings that you do from a production standpoint. The thing I think that scope and visual effects and things, it's like it's not that difficult. I think that the thing that is a challenge that I'm focusing a lot on set is to try to make sure that the emotional journeys of the actors, of the characters are authentic.

People are talking to me about intimacy, but I think it's more, everybody, all the directors are trying to bring the intimacy, the inner world of the actors, of the characters, sorry, their inner journey on screen, but it's about the inner logic, the authenticity of that journey to make sure that it feels like genuine human reactions.

And I think that's where the strong emotional impact comes from, when you feel that there's something that feels real, that feels like you can relate to. And it sounds obvious, but specifically in sci-fi, I feel that very often characters don't behave like real humans. It's a personal sensation sometimes that I have. They can be two-dimensional. And it's coming, yeah, maybe it's just like,

coming from the documentary, I did documentaries when I was young. It's something that I think that I'm really focusing as I'm writing when I write or when I read the screenplay or when I participate in the writing process of a screenplay I try to focus on and with the actors as well I participate in the writing process of a screenplay I try to focus on and with the actors as well. To make sure that that journey feels grounded, has roots in something real.

So when Amy Adams sees the alien, we believe it a real human reaction. Does it make sense? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, Jason, Jason, Jason, you kind of brought it up about that inner and then you were just touching on, I was thinking about specifically Stellan Skarsgård character in the two Dune films, yeah? As this, I forget his character's name. You know, the Baron Arkanen, yeah. Yeah, and he's this, I mean, he's this incredible villain of all villains in a way.

He's this sort of despicable person who does sometimes the most awful things. And yet you see in that moment when you see him eyeing the throne and the throne is available. That moment you see he's not just a bad guy like Jabba the Hutt, not to make the comparison or talk down, but you see the envy, you see the desire for that, the thirst, the hunger for it, to reach with his eyes or reaching for it, could it be mine?

In this way that's almost Shakespearean, yeah? But very real and human too. I found that shot of him, when you cut to him, I found that very alarming. Yeah. Well, you're making my day. I thank you so much because you're the first one who's talking about that moment.

It's exactly this idea of addiction to power. The man is about to die, but still, the idea that he could get closer to power is like a human addiction. I'm really, thank you very much for pointing that. Yeah, it's evident. But there are components to building a moment like that that you're just uniquely incredible at in your ability to balance all departments

to create that moment. And so for our listeners out there that aren't as familiar with what happens on set and the sequencing of things, talk a little bit about how you approach a moment like that where you know that it needs to have the authenticity of sort of the human condition to counterbalance this crazy odd sort of space world,

a nether world that's not really that tangible, but the human emotion is. And so that needs to be real while this other stuff is not that real. And are you thinking I'm fully reliant on the actor to really ground this with no acting and just being raw? Or do you predetermine a certain visual language a certain piece of music from Hans a certain bit of sound design

from your your mixers like you know there's so many different elements that you can do to build a moment just perfectly like that. It's a very good question, thank you. All shots are different from that specific moment where the Baron is like lying on the stairs. It's a character for those who haven't seen the movie, it's a character that is just about to die and see suddenly the throne. The king has left the throne and the throne is up the stairs and he's looking at the throne

and he's looking at the throne and he's crawling towards it. And with a moment like that, I will say it's a very simple image. So it's about Stellan. I explained to Stellan the idea and Stellan Skarsgård, who plays the Baron, will perform and bring that to life. who plays the baron will perform And it's to bring force into an idea. The camera is always very powerful, but it's all the birth of the ideas, acting of course.

Yeah, that's cool. But let's say perhaps, especially in this. And to answer to about music, it's something for me that it's a power, music is super powerful, but I try to not think about it as I'm shooting because it needs to be on screen first. It's something that...

Well, I had a question about that. Well, let me just finish this one point, though, Shon, sorry. But so, while the music can come and does come much later in the process, the assets you may need on the set to create the visual of it, i.e. a techno crane or whatever it is that you want to shoot that scene in a certain way, you need to have a lot of that stuff predetermined so that you've got your crane there that day

and your rigors have set up the lighting in such a way, et cetera, et cetera. So how do you manage the balance between having an actor have the freedom that you wanna give them, but also fit inside sometimes a very technical and pre-thought and heavily prepped visual sequence that you need them to fit inside of? Hit this mark, react this way, turn this direction, you know,

to fit something that may have other departments all predetermined. It depends. A good example will be the sandworm riding where Timothée Chalamet playing all that 3Ds will attract a sandworm and then when the sandworm arrives nearby him, he will jump on the worm and ride the worm. So it's a sequence that is heavily storyboarded and needs a month of prep. And at this moment, let's say that the choreography that I impose, I'm more of a dictator, I impose a rhythm, a precise choreography that Timothée

has to follow. But inside that choreography, there's tiny moments where Timothée, when I mean close up on him, how he can anticipate the arrival of this beast toward him, the way you can act with his eyes. There's tiny things, the micro-precisions of acting that he can bring. I mean, that I'm open to ideas, but in general, sometimes it's more loose. Some sequences, there's more space for the actor, and those are also, I love when I have time to give space to the actors to bring some ideas.

I'm talking about the settings of a scene. give space to theaters to bring some ideas. I'm talking about the settings of a scene. It's very inspiring when people bring good ideas. But complicated sometimes when you have stuff that's predetermined and then you've got an actor that's got different ideas and it's like, well, no, no, no, this isn't one of those scenes where you can freestyle yeah exactly but in the same time it requires tremendous acting skills to be able to perform and to bring life to like to my day facing the worm or any

Adams facing the aliens or to be in relationship with something that doesn't exist it's like it requires nice imagination and and and it's not easy to the aliens or to be in a relationship with something that doesn't exist. It requires nice imagination and it's not easy for actors to perform in those movies with big toys and all these things. And to answer to your first part of your question about techno cranes or dollies, etc. It's all planned in advance. When I built the scene, it's all drawn, prepared, so we know exactly what kind of technology we'll use on the day, of course. Was there a lot of green screen versus volume stage on Dune 1 and 2?

Did you use any of the volume stages? Was it all green? We were almost as possible outside in the real environment or with real sets. We built as much as we could and we were in the real environments, in the desert. And those landscapes are for the people who have been in the landscape that are bigger than life, those landscapes are for the people who have been in the landscape that are bigger than life, that bring humility inside you, that the impact on those landscapes is tremendous on the actors and myself and the similar effects.

Yeah, I watched the whole behind the scenes, all of it. All of the doom. We know. Both doom. I couldn't consume enough of it. It was just, I was just blown away with how it's made. We know. How do you do that? The Rake crew. We can erase footsteps in the background, things like that, with CGI,

but you cannot have an actor walking in their own footsteps again, because that's a nightmare for VFX. the crew will have the discipline not to make any footsteps. It sounds simple, but it's not. When you have a crew of 800 people in the sand to make sure that everybody follows the same path. It gives the opportunity to see crazy things. Every night when I was going back from the set, when I had sunset, there were 100 people grooming the sand dunes through the footsteps that we had made. So the wind will do its work during the night.

And it's very poetic. That I felt, oh my God, am I Miguel O'Mahony? Yeah, you're a monster. Because I have people grooming the desert. Sweeping the sand. Believe me, I've had the same thought. Jason made some footsteps in the sand and he yelled at his caddy.

He said, you missed a footprint. When he was playing golf. He's a real monster. But, but didn't he, you know, when I was thinking about, you were talking about the actors and asking them to have imagination and working with them on all these thoughts

and these inner life and stuff. And I was thinking about the collaboration that you've had with a bunch of different actors across a bunch of your films. You've used and worked, not used, you've worked with lots of people in different roles. I was trying to think who was, well, certainly our friend Josh Brolin, you've worked with a lot. I think starting in Sicario, which I want to get to. Another great one, yeah. Which is an incredible, I urge anybody,

if you've never seen Sicario, to please see that. Oh my goodness, so great. It's so phenomenal. Jake Gyllenhaal, you've worked with a couple times, I think, with Prisoners. Emily Blunt. And then our good friend Emily. Jilen Hall, you've worked with a couple times, I think, with Prisoners. You've had a lot of repeat collaborators. It's all about the nature of the project and the parts that remind me,

it's a bit boring, but I wish I could work with all of them again. I think that honestly I adore working in the United States is to have access to all these incredible actors. And casting is very strange. You bring someone on its intuitions about the proximity of an actor and a role, and you take gamble in some ways, but. You, can I go back?

Okay, just one really quick question about the music, because I thought that was interesting. You said you were talking to Hans before you started, and do you listen to cues or music about the music, because I thought that was interesting. or do you wait to incorporate it later? I'm going to be very honest. Every time I write or direct listening to music, I'm very sensitive to music. I absolutely love music. I remember once, one of my first films, I was directing a specific scene, as I was alone in my bubble, with my headphones listening to this fantastic piece of music,

and I was saying to myself, it's going to be amazing. Whoa, it's going to be something. It's the power of music, you know? Then you look at the scene without the music, like, hmm. It's the same with writing. Sometimes I write something and I get emotional, and I'm like, oh my God, maybe I'm great. And then you read it the next morning.

It's like, no, it's the music. It sounds stupid, but it's the truth. I cannot work with music. I work with silence. Then I try to, and silence is my friend. I love, my sets are very boring. I'm not a funny director. And silence is my friend. I'm not a funny director.

When I get in the car in the morning, it's total silence. I arrive on set, I need silence. I try to protect that bubble all day long. find my way, when there's music, I'm gone. It's too powerful. And this is why, to answer to your question, it's like, even I have music from the past movies right now, I cannot listen to this music, it's too powerful. Yeah, you introduced me to Max Richter, because I never heard of him.

And then I was like, what is that piece, it's so powerful. Staying with music though, where for you does the score and the sound design begins? Talk to us about that process for you and when does it happen? First of all, yeah, it has to, I try to think about the sound and the structure of the sound and the structure

of the sound design as much as possible in the screenplay. And I know as I'm writing that I will need music there, I will create a musical sequence more. It's something that is embedded in the DNA of the screenplay. But then when we edit the film, there's like, I'm working with an editor, Joe Walker, who is a master that Joe is coming from, was studied as a composer. He was a composer first, then he did sound at the BBC as a sound editor. So where I'm going is that sound, what I love and one of the reasons I started to work with Joe, we made many movies together, is that for him, sound is as important as the image.

And it's something that when I was making indie movies, I felt that the sound was coming at the end of the process and with very little time, and I was always kind of disappointed not having the proper time to make a real embedded sound design. And so now I try to bring the sound as early as possible. So it's like as I'm shooting, we have a sound designer that start to create,

specifically with sci-fi, to create sounds that will be fed to the editing room very early on. So these sounds are time to live with them and make sure that they will endure the test of time and get used to them These sounds add time to live with them and make sure that they will endure the test of time and get used to them and make sure that they are right through time. It's not just flashes that last minute flashes.

And it gives, of course, more time to explore, experiment. And so the sound is something that is, again, as important as the image. And with Joanne Johansson and Anne Zimmer, both composers were flirting close to the sound design sometimes, meaning that the music, sometimes there's like a dance that I install between the designers and the composer that they will flirt and cross sometimes the border It's like a dance that I install between the designers and the composer that they will flirt and cross sometimes the border

and for that it needs communication. But that sound design is embedded prior to you spotting with the composer and figuring out where you're going to put some of the music. It's the sound design first then, yeah? Yeah, but I will say that it depends on the sequence. Sometimes I say to the team, here is hands. Hands is not known to be subtle when you invade the soundtrack. So there are some moments where we say, okay, that's going to be, we go full hands, or here we go. So it's trying to find the right balance between what the scene needs.

Yeah. It's about the needs. It's the movie that guides me. Yeah, yeah. We'll be right back. And now back to the show. Can we just touch on Sicario for another moment if we could? And just talk about how that came to be, how that came into your purview and what sort

of led you... I don't know, there's something about that film that I find just adore. So visceral. I've been very interested by the border between the United States and Mexico. I thought it was like very meaningful place in the world about our reality, about it was very, and I was looking for, I was reading about it, I was looking for a project that will be, for a story, something that will allow me

to explore that zone. And came into my hands at one point, I read a lot, but one project came called Sicario, written by Taylor Sheridan. Yeah, the great Taylor Sheridan. The Terradan is well known now for all the work he's done, but at the same time it was one of his first screenplays. And still today it is by far, by far one of the best screenplays I ever read.

The amount of research that Taylor had done to bring that world to life, the best compliment I have about Sicario is when I meet border officers or policemen, the officers that people work at the border who saw Sicario and said, that's the real deal. And honestly, it is because of the work that Taylor had done. He had done his homeworks, and when you were reading the screenplay, you knew you were in front of something that felt authentic.

Very, very strong screenplay. I remember reading it, and I was like, the screenplay was so intense. I finished the screenplay, I was drained of energy. I was like, oh my God, I love it. I'm so sad that I loved this so much. I would have to go in the dark, and I was just out of three very dark movies in a row,

and I was like, to go back there. But it was exactly what I was looking for. And it's by far the movie that was the fastest process. I read the screenplay, met the studio, we got along spontaneously, and we did the casting. It went bang! I was behind the camera with Roger Deakins. we got along spontaneously and we did the casting. It went bang! I was behind the camera with Roger Deacon.

It was one of the fastest projects I ever made. It was a very nice shoot because there was a nice balance between the budget and the subject. It was a nice shoot. Yeah, I just want to say, JB, I want to get to your point, which is I just want to touch on the great Taylor shared. And again, you can tell, I never read the script, but you could tell the material was so strong. It really comes through, you know, not just obviously the visual and the way the film is is incredible,

but also that the material was really strong. I think it was pretty. I had crazy ideas. I mean, like that border shoot, was really strong. strong sense of cinema. And I'm still grateful that I had a chance to bring that on screen. That shootout you mentioned there at the border is one of the most tense things I've ever seen.

You still probably ever will see it. And there's obviously great planning that goes into something like that because it's just so intricate. But I guess that's my question. How much planning did go into something like that? And just more generally, when you're working, and your visual taste, your aesthetic,

your sense of composition and whatnot is just unmatched. And you're working with your equals in cinematography with people like Roger Dinkins and Greg Fraser. When you sit down and you start to shot design and shot list and previs and all that stuff in prep and decide how you're gonna actually photograph something, what is the relationship with cinematographers like that, that are so accomplished and so in a good way opinionated,

what's the back and forth that goes there? Do you let them know kind of what you're seeing and look for them to kind of plus that or is it the other way around? Do you let them start to design things and then you let them know whether that fits inside your plan? It's a sequence like that battle sequence for instance has to be planned months in advance

because it's a puzzle. The different parts have been shot in different places and you have to create a piece of highway with all these cars. It has to be very, very well planned according to the sun positions and so it's storyboarded. And of course working with someone like Roger Dickens will have a strong input. That's what I love. It's like a collaboration. I mean, it's like we will find together the right angle according to the board that I did. But I'm always open if someone has a better idea on set

that will make the shot even stronger. What I think I love working with Roger is that we both are, when we are looking for a shot, looking for the angle, not multiple angle, but one, and we work, we used to work with one camera and that's something that search for the best angle possible is something that we really, really loved. Only one? Wow.

I would say it's because I'm monomaniac and it's something that Roger has. We try once to put a second camera on one and it was a disaster. I mean, you feel it, you know it's not right. It's like there's one place to put the camera and the rest is, we are both, on a movie like DOOM sometimes there was additional cameras. It's because of the nature of the piece

I didn't have the choice, and Greg Fraser had that flexibility to, but I would say it's- I have four cameras on me right now. Yeah, and we wish it was zero, and we wish it was zero. We wish, is there a possibility to do zero? No, because I want to make sure we get it.

Denis, I want to say, I was thinking about your films and your filmography, all the things that you've done, and not only have they been epic as we discussed before and had a tremendous scope, but also you've tackled a lot of, I don't wanna say that they're dark, but there is darkness there.

You challenge people in the sort of the darker realms. Certainly some of your earlier films and your Canadian films that these guys might not know about. Polytechnique and Cindy's. I'm thinking about Polytechnique, which is about the Montreal Massacre, which was a terrible incident in Montreal in 1989.

I was there, I was in Montreal at that time. You were? Yeah, yeah. And I was in Montreal in 1989. I was there, I was in Montreal at that time. You were? Yeah, yeah. And I was living there. And I, those films were, as I mentioned before, prisoners and enemy, and then you get into even Sicario. These are heavier subjects that you're tackling. My question is, when's the romcom?

Yeah. Actually, my first feature film was some kind of a rom-com. Was it? Yeah, it's not a good one, but it was. She did lose her life at the end. Actually, he dies. Wow. Hopeless. Actually he dies.

But it is one of the reasons when I did Sicario, I knew Arrival was coming after and I did Sicario knowing that I would make a movie with more light. And because I was like, it's true that I had made a series of film that was pretty violent and dark. And that is, there's a toll to this. There's like a weight that I needed to go toward. And I think that science fiction also helped me to go toward something like looking in the future or something that's more, there's more light there, I feel right now.

So it's a... Please don't stop making the dark stuff too, because there is an uplift. I know I was joking. No, but seriously, there's an uplift and an excitement of watching a filmmaker do things at your level, no matter what the genre, what the mood is. JB, would you agree that if somebody says

there's a new Denis Villeneuve film coming out, you're like, where do I line up? Thank you gentlemen, you're very generous with me. No, it's true. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I'm going to shit talk you when this is over. Yeah, yeah, I see that. Well, speaking of the earlier stuff...

Let's ask Brolin, let's ask Brolin for the real deal. Are there any films from the beginning of your career that you would enjoy perhaps reshooting nowadays, knowing what you know now and do? Not that you have any regrets, but anything that, I should phrase it differently, which film from your past do you think would be most fun to redo now

that you know things now that you didn't know then? Wow, that's a nice question. Do you know that the past movies are like, you're telling me that the past movies are like, the father of those movies. I see movies sometimes as a selfie of yourself. You know when you look at pictures of yourself when you were a teenager? The shame? Yeah, yeah.

shoots? How can you make, say when I make a movie, Ridley makes three movies. And he has a very high pacing. It's just to make sure that your hours, shooting hours are regular. So we do what we call French hours, meaning we shoot 10 hours a day, but without break. No lunch, no breaks. So it means that the hours are always the same.

You always start the day at the same time and end the day no overtime, so it's like, it creates a balance in your schedule. So you're not content. You do that on every job? On the past jobs, yes, yes, yes. I didn't do that on Blade Runner and I almost died. Yeah, how are you on night shoots?

Night shoots will kill people, I mean, literally, unfortunately, at times. Yeah, it's you on night shoots? Night shoots will kill people, I mean, literally, unfortunately. It's about creating a balance in the schedule, trying to find a balance so you will protect the crew from being exhausted. Because for the people who don't know about shooting, it's just that the nature of the structure of the schedule, because of the turnaround of the actors, sometimes you end up starting your day in the middle of the afternoon and finishing late at night. It's not good for creativity. Knocking on an actor's trailer at 3 in the morning, we're ready for you.

They say, hey guys, it's lunch and it's 12 midnight, and you're like, what do you mean lunch? This is not lunch, I'm sorry. Are you laying on set at 6 p.m. and say hey, good morning, and say cut the crap? Exactly, yeah. Danny, aside from the... Are you a Montreal Canadiens fan, is that what you're going to ask him? Yeah, exactly.

Well, it was part of it, it's like aside from the good sleep, what's the other thing that you do to really sort of decompress and get away from the incredibly, you know, immersive work directing is? Do you watch something silly on TV? Are you a sports fan? Do you watch hockey?

No, but as I'm shooting, honestly, when I shoot, I make a 24-hour, seven-days-a-week commitment. There's no way to relax. For me, I'm 100% present to the project. So there's no, specifically, a movie of them. Sci-fi movies, it's every second, not even sci-fi, any movies, there's no way I will recover from a movie is to go back home in Canada, in the forest, go with my family,

spend time with the kids, with family, and that's where I recharge my batteries. But during a shoot, there's no moment where I can, I know that, and it's that, yeah. And because of that dedication, you will now have made, it will go down in history, Dune as a franchise, just like you loved Star Wars as a franchise as a kid, you created a franchise that will last forever in the minds of these kids.

I would say I didn't do it thinking about the word franchise. For me, it was I was making two movies. Of course. And it was I was making two movies. Of course. Because franchise for me is always like something that is linked with commerce or like there's a plan. Okay, three great movies. Three great movies that are connected. No, but it's not bad.

It's just that I was not saying to myself, okay, I'm starting a franchise. It's more about, I'm adapting this book in two movies and we'll see what happens after. But for the fans, we're so happy you're making three of them. But, Sean, not only that, but also, does it ever occur to you, not unlike you looking at your father's newspaper and saying, please take me to this movie,

it must be kind of cool knowing that there's somewhere, there is a kid who said to his parents, please take me to Dune, please take me to Dune 2, who 10 years from now says, I wanna study film, who makes a film with people they know and makes a big huge film, and they do it because they saw Dune when they were seven, eight, nine, 10, to be inspiring in that way, I think it must be very cool.

I don't know if it had happened or something, but it would be moving to think that people could be inspired. One thing for sure is that I made those movies. We were talking about darkness and violence earlier. The movies were made for PG-13 instead of rated R. It was the first time after, apart from Arrival, all my other movies are for adults. This one I insisted, I agreed with the studio also

to make it PG-13 because I wanted the movie to be accessible to a younger audience that would have the same age as when I read the book. So I thought it was inspiring for me. And adults like me who have the brains of a 13-year-old. Yeah. Yeah. At best. Yeah, but for me, I like the idea

that those movies are taking themselves seriously, meaning that they are sci-fi that are not, that doesn't apologize to be sci-fi or I love, I remember when I saw The Empire Strikes Back when I was 13 years old, the impact of that movie on me at 12 years old. Oh, God. Yeah, I thought the darkness of it,

I felt that there was someone who was talking to me as I was, was trusting me as a kid. And when Darth Vader said, I am your father, I was like, what would that feel like? Inside joke. Oh, just having one. Well, Denis, you seem as kind as you are talented. I just can't thank you enough for talking to us

at three ding-dongs for an hour. It was a pleasure to chat with you this morning. Yeah. And a pleasure. Thank you very much for the invitation and thank you for your generosity as well. That means the world to me. Well, thank you, sir.

Thank you, Danny. Congratulations on all your great work. Please keep it coming. Take care. See you later. All right. Good luck, Sean. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Thank you, thank you. Bye. Well, you got blessed by the great Denis Villeneuve, Sean. I think your prospects look good. He just said, basically like, hope you live. Yeah. From the great Denis Villeneuve. He's, yeah, I mean.

Hey, if you're out there and you're not familiar, and again, I know that we do like, we compliment our guests a lot because we have people on that we like and we respect and we get shit for it sometimes. You guys just, all you do is compliment. Well, we like to compliment people who are really good at what they do.

And if you're not familiar who Denis Villeneuve is, and you're not familiar with his films for some reason, I really, this is true, I urge you to go and watch some of his films, all of his films, his Canadian films that he made and his current, he's just an incredible, I mean JB is a director, right? Just stunning, yeah, he's not, there aren't many in his league.

I think it's probably about, it ain't deeper than 10 and it's probably closer to five. No, and again, he made Brolin look good, you know what I mean? Oh, it's very hard to do. I mean, think about that shows what a filmmaker he is. Yeah, I think how many cameras that takes. Off the, you know?

But he's really cool. He's... So cool. Yeah, and you can tell he's in charge, which I love. Canadians are cool, right? Yeah, the accent I think he needs to work on a little bit. He's from Des Moines. But he's... No, he's not from Des Moines. But I think-

No, he's not from Des Moines. No, he's like, wait, what? No, dummy. God. He's from, I think he's from Montreal, yeah? Yeah. Quebec. Well, Montreal is in Quebec, but it's a province.

He's not related to Jacques Villeneuve or Gilles Villeneuve. Sure, yeah. But- I don't know who those people are. Those are Formula One drivers. They were. Oh, excellent. Wonderful. They were. You know what? Here he comes. What's up, Sean?

I love that he brought Close Encounters up. Oh yeah, why's that? Well, because when, I remember that one moment when you all saw the movie, yeah. This is gonna be so lazy. Oh, when the spaceship takes off. Honestly yeah This is gonna be so lazy. This is honestly this is gonna be so Freaking when the little kid is standing there waving Waving to the aliens as they're leaving. He actually says out loud

What does he say? Bye! Bye! Do do do! Do do do! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye!

Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye!

Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye!

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