SmartLess - “Depeche Mode”

Episode Date: May 29, 2023

We speak & spell with Dave Gahan and Martin Gore of [the French fashion magazine] Depeche Mode. Truly, we just can’t get enough from these gents— from soccer fights and removing clutter, to The Berlin Wall… and “life to prolong,” you might as well just smash a bug on your forehead. Enjoy the Silence; Enjoy the SmartLess.Please support us by supporting our sponsors.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

【音楽】 You know what I started doing during the day is watching Deal or No Deal. Remember that show? Deal or No Deal. Is that the one worth, let's like a Planko machine? Open the Knoosh. No, I'm not sure. Remind me what happens. So the library's all ran out of books.

And so you found yourself where the few extra hours are all right. No, like I'll have it. Suit case one. So this is on a game show network or something? Yes, it's on Game Show Network. That's exactly right. Right. So you're just crushing great ideas during the day and then doing theater at night?

No, I can't text and type because I want to say my hands because I play piano in the show. And so I watch some games like while I have my breakfast. So I watch Steel and other. Remember that show? Yeah, of course. What does breakfast look like I watched you all another. Remember that show? Yeah, of course. What does breakfast look like these days

right now when you're in the rush? Let me guess. Jason, go first. It's eggs Benedict, because that's a breakfast with a sauce. And it needs to be a sauce on every meal. Okay, let me have a guess. Yeah.

It's kind of like a sausage muffin thing, but instead of, like instead of like a English muffin on the sides or donuts. And cut in half like a bagel, like a bagel. Yeah. And then, and this, by the way, that's amazing. And the sausage is just loose good and plenty, you know, the look at liquorice. Instead of, yeah, at a restaurant, instead of like that pepper grinder, they go good in plenty. And they just squeeze it out.

Shana, remember that huge, Shana, remember that photo of you and me in Scotty with that huge pepper grinder where you stand, boom, and the guy came over, you know, they come over, they go, like, would you like to know more about, I can't, I know, Jason, the European vacations anymore with you guys. But that That was only that was the second European trip we did. So anyway, so Sean, and the guy comes up, you know, they come. Who is your date? Will. Who was my date? What? It doesn't matter. I could have been your date.

We don't need to get into. Every time we mentioned somebody now in the podcast, that person's like, I got 30 phone calls. I know. They're like, so so anyway, you know, the guy comes up and they go, you want some fresh pepper and they go, yeah, let's get some fresh pepper Give us a Turkish accent. Well, and this guy, nope, in this guy You think I want to have to write a fucking your mystery guest is laughing a note Sepology that I got a post mic is hot is some male I got a post on my Instagram a note Sepology because you prompted me to do an accent of the guy was my server in Istanbul. No, thank you me to do an accident of the guy was my server in Istanbul. No, thank you. So anyway, stop reading. When he goes, would you like some pepper? And I'm not, Sean, tell me, right, I'm

not exaggerating. The pepper shaker was four feet lower. And two guys come out to hold it. And two guys told it. Yeah. That sounds like my, my, my, my, my big, bonge ears back in my early 20s. Yeah. That used to be on my dating profile, takes two guys to hold it. Listen, I have a... Oh, rock, rock, rock, rock, rock. All right, so your guest is still laughing. I love that. That's a good sign.

It's a good sign. Wait, but you guys, I texted you one of those comments, did I text you both? The comment was like a week ago and somebody wrote about my show. They said, didn't you get that, Jay? The fat suit. Yeah, another fucking fat suit, I think.

Wait, what, what, what, what, what? Somebody made a comment that Sean is wearing a fat suit and his, the, and his, no, somebody asked me on my Instagram or somewhere on Twitter, I don't remember. And it was Sean, did they, is that, is the outfit that they put you in supposed to make you look bigger, which is, you know, code for a fatter? Right. And it's just, I'm just fucking fat.

And tell him what your friend said, you should say, no, it's supposed to make me look thinner. Why? By the way, Sean, you reminded me. I was watching, I was, I was seeing that your dating profile reminded me I was watching alone. That show, right? And it reminded me of something that they say in that all the time, which

is also in your daily profit, which is, hey, bear. Hey, bear. Hey, bear. No, what's up, bear? No, will, you know, the shameless plug here, you know. I know you have your new show. Yeah, have you not watched out last year? Oh, no, I want to see that.

I haven't seen it yet. I don't have, I know I'm going to watch it. Sean, sounds like you've got time on your hands, maybe instead of doing no deal. No, no, no, no. Are you kidding, dude? There's 11 seasons of deal, there no deal. You gotta get through.

What was for breakfast, by the way? I had, yesterday I had a egg cheese. We don't need the full week. The cheese egg and a cheese egg and bacon bagel. And then today I did good. I did yogurt with grape nuts and blueberries. And a banana and a little bit of a candy bar. God, there's some.

Wait, was the candy bar like a fun dip for the yogurt? No, it was a payday. You called that the equalizer, right? Just to cancel out everything else. Time for the equalizer. Half of a payday. You called that the equalizer, right? Just to cancel out everything else. Time for the equalizer. Half of it, payday. Hey, listen, better with you. You want to talk about a payday?

Our guests. Segway, Segway, Segway. Our guests. Let me just say this. They've sold more than 100 million records worldwide. Wait a minute. 54 songs in the UK singles chart, 17 top 10 albums in the UK chart. If I name a song, you're going to, I don't know, you're going to immediately guess.

They're incredibly, incredibly talented guys who have been just such a huge part of the music scene for so long. I don't want to say so many years to them, they're going to be bummed out and be like, what, that makes us old. But I will say this, we are all legitimate fans of theirs. None more than Sean and I, Sean and me, Sean and I have discussed these guys all the time. It's Martin Gore and Dave Goss from The Peshmo. Are you fucking kidding me?

Wow. This is fucking crazy. A real, this is a delicious fucking parade. This is like, I can, I'm ready. real shit fucking whole this is like i can i can i can i can i can i can hang on david uh... david martin you should know nice to meet you both you're

such an honor thank you shannon i when i knew that and we've been sort of trying to work this out to get you guys on here and shannon i talk about you guys all the time and we we've talked about your music we talk about your songs and about shannon you remember about a month ago we were talking about you guys on here. And Sean and I talk about you guys all the time. And we talk about your music, we talk about your songs. And Sean, do you remember about a month ago when we were talking about you guys

and we were going to, and I knew that it was gonna happen. And it took, it was one of the worst, it was the hardest I've ever had to work to keep a secret. Oh, you knew. It was the new Sean when we had that conversation. Oh my God. You guys, I'm freaking out. I have 17,000 things to say to you.

Oh, we got time, Sean. We go nothing but time, actually. You said we have nothing but time, of course, they me to go, it's just a question of time. I know every word to every song. Every word to every song. This is so wild. And I have to do this for you guys, because...

Okay, so I'm going to start out with this. Martin... I've never seen Johnis not excited., okay, so I'm gonna start out with this. Martin, I've never seen Thomas not excited. This is fun. I'm freaking out. So Martin, you came to a taping of Willing Grace. That is true. I did.

Yes. And went way, way, way. What if he didn't remember that? I've been trying to keep that quiet for years. That's a fun. That's a news out. That's a day, I love it. So wait, so you came to a taping of Will and Grace

and somebody whispered in my mirror, you're Martin Gors in the audience. I'm like, what are you talking about, Martin Gors in the audience? What are you, he's, the passion on is like my life. What are you talking about? And then you were there with your wife

and your wife's friends or something like that. And then you asked, let's go out to grab from Fission Chips at the standard hotel on Sons of Boulevard. And I was like, oh my God, I'm gonna go out out with fish and chips. I've never had fish and chips. This is so exciting. So we go out for fish.

And I'm walking down the street with you, which was so surreal to me. And I did this bit for you, which is waiting for the night off of Violator. And I'll do it for you now, which is... ...wait, wait for it. It will cut out the lock bar. Because this is what I used to do in college. There it comes. This is it. This is coming up.

The family will come. And I wrote my fucking senior thesis paper on this song. Come on, college. Here we go. Here we go. This is it. I can see your thesis paper on this song. Come on, college. Oh, swear to God. Here we go. Here we go, this is it. Be taking up the glasses. Listen.

Oh. I'm like that sounded like a bug, but now that you have given me that visual, and we perform that song every night, I will be thinking of you. Time to re-shoot the video. So Dave and Martin, how do you guys respond to Ashahn Hayes is just boiled your music down to something like a bug?

Oh my God, this is unbelievable. Again, not to belabor, but we talk about you guys all the time, such massive fans of your music and have been all the way through. And we've had the good fortune of having bands on the show who have been played important parts of our lives. But there are a few bands like you guys who have been there consistently over time. And that is also the mark of real greatness, is showing consistency over time. And you're still doing it. And so I kind of want to go back to the very beginning, if I may, and not to bore you,

because we're so interested to hear about how the Pesh Mode came to be, or in each one of you, I know that you each have a different journey as how you became part of the Pesh mode came to be and each one of you, I know that you each have a different journey as how you became part of the Pesh mode. And I'd love to sort of hear from you guys what that, what that process was. Shaking right now. Well, Vince and Andy really started the whole thing. They had a, like, a little ban going. And I bought a synthesizer.

So that kind of like got me in the band. Yeah. By the way, that's a very common, that by the way, that's a very common theme. We interviewed a bunch of bands and they're always like, I had a guitar, I had a camera, or whatever, right? Well, there's a lot to do with that because when what we found out was, well, elaborate on this, but you didn't need the amp anymore and you didn't need to, you could just de-eye straight into a P-A system, carried a little synth

under your arm pretty much to a gig and show up with our little drum machine and three synths and kind of teetering on some beer crates in a pub or whatever, as I stands and we could play, you know. And Dave, did you know these guys, when they first started, or did you meet them a little bit later? I, there was sort of infamous in the town that we grew up in for other things,

but I did not really run in the same circles, but it was a good thing for me, because they sort of, you know, it gave me suddenly a focus that I had something to kind of grab hold of and maybe it was a way out of the town that we grew up in. And they, yeah, I think how we met properly was I was sort of hanging out with another band right, Mark, and yeah, yeah, and we were just rehearsing

in the same space and one evening. I knew Vince a bit, we were singing, sort of jamming together the song here, I was a barwiss song. And Vince heard me sing in the song supposedly the story goes and asked me to join his band which was then a different band which Martin was in With what's the name of that band composition of sound? What an amazing name for sure Cars cars for sure Like all MD you know,

they would try to be like, oh, MD, it's okay. But meanwhile, it sounds like a manual that you find in a music story. I was like, that's gotta go. And I got such a, I got a better name, Dipeshmo, which everybody also went like, what? Like, I know that. And we, but let's talk about that

because in French, it's fast fashion. So why, why, why fast fashion? I tell you this story. Look, I was, I was at a, you sort of art college in, as we were at one point. And I was doing a fashion course there. And there was this, this, there was magazines there. I think, I think it was something like we had a gig somewhere. We had to kind of,

we were thinking about changing a name. We had a little pub gig coming up and this was the moment to change the name. So what should it be? And I saw this magazine. It was a French sort of magazine, a French fashion magazine line there. At the moment, I had no idea what it meant

or anything, I just read it out. Over the phone to somebody, I said, oh, we're in depression mode. That's a weird night. That's like, yeah, it is. Did it put more pressure on you guys to come up with fancy outfits? No, we were already trying that.

Most of them homemade at that point, you know, so, you know, it would be, it would be a pair of football socks with like, the knees, pulled up to the knees with some cut-offs to the knees and took them in. And some house slippers that were coming. John is fully around. So tell me, so you guys formed, Dave, so you join and then you name it and you guys call yourself to Pesh mode. You start doing gigs. Yeah.

How many before you your first record is a speaking spell. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. So everywhere to every song. Yeah. I mean, speaking spell. Yeah.

And I want to get into that in a second and into to to Vince Clark and but what was before you release speaking spell, how does that come about that you guys get that record deal? Like, what are you doing? Where are you performing? Yeah. We were playing most of the songs from that record, right, my like, and, we've mostly Vince Clark songs.

And it was, it's really the one album that, because Vince left immediately, often albums released. And did he sing on that? Before it was released. Oh, immediately after the album was released. And did he say, he's saying on that? Before it was released. Oh really? Before it was. Yeah. But he's saying on that record too, yeah. Well, we, we, we sang together. It was like sort of three-part harmony thing. So, a beach boy meets Ramones type thing we were going for, I guess. But, um, um, um, the speed of the Ramones and the harmony of the beach boys, that was, I think,

had Daniel Miller from mute records who signed us. He didn't really sign us, though. It was just a handshake. We never actually signed the contract. Really? No. Is that where the song, the handshake, there's a contract? No, it was probably just, that was a mark, in my own road that song, and he was probably just, that was a mark, in my mind, I rode that song and he was probably just angry at everybody at that point. Okay. Music, music, business, and being ripped off again and again and again. So this guy from U Records, he sees you wet in a pub,

you're playing clubs, what was it? Yes, in a pub. We supported one of his other acts called Fat Gadget, at a pub called The Bridge House. Fat Gadget. You got to check out Fat Gadget. You guys are going to like Fat Gadget, great music. Really? Yes. You got to check out Faggy. You guys are going to like Faggy. Great music.

Really? Yes. I'm actually going to write it down. F-A-D-G-A-D-E-T. D-H-A-D-G-E-T. Yeah, I'm going to write it down. You're going to write it down. That's right.

Martin went to school. I did not. Oh. Well, then you're going to, I mean, Jason, anything? Nothing. Okay. So Daniel Sohrer is Fad Gadget with our synth set up on by that time we'd gone to all synths.

We started off with a bass and a guitar in the band, but we'd gone to all synths and we had them set up on our beer crates. And Daniel, Daniel was impressed. Yeah. We played really fast. And his story goes, he was mixing a sound for fact, just a little pub in the east end of London called the Bridge House in Canningtown. And we had a residency there on Thursday nights, the guy, even though nobody would be there,

be like two people in a dog, most of the time. As the passionate. Yeah. As the passionate. And you know, a guy that ran the pub, he took a shine to us and sort of let us play there Thursday nights. Anyway, so we got this support, which was a big thing because we loved Fad Gadget. And you know, Jason loved it. Yeah, you've got to check out Fad Gaget. So you

guys, so you go and you support these guys and then this dude from from you records. Like, yeah, you guys are supporting Fad Gaget are pretty good. We actually met him before, Vince and I had trailed around all the record companies and we had gone to rough trade records in London thinking that we had made this masterful demo that they were going to sign us immediately because we actually had melody and most of their other bands at that time did not. There was just noise. And we thought they could have signed us immediately. And the guy that ran the record company Scott, he was not really interested, but he listened to our tape. And while he was listening to the tape, Daniel Miller happened to walk into

the office because Fad Gadget was being distributed by rough trade at the time. And he was shouting about something that he'd gone in a record store and there was no records in there or something. So Scott shouted out, you know, Daniel, you should listen to this, maybe you'll be, this is something you might be interested in, he kind of growled a bit, looked over at me and then sitting there and just, you know, and walked out and we were like, well, fuck him. That's Daniel Miller from You Wreckly Knows. So we walked out there and this was, I guess, so the chance, the next chance, me, in when we were opening for Fab Gadget, Daniel was mixing the sound and he came back afterwards and started talking to me actually

because he thought I'd written the songs because I was singing them. And I said and he asked me some questions and then he said you write the songs. I was like no that bloke over there does and that was Vince. So he left me of course and went over and talked to Vince. And after that, no, he said, can I come back? And I think we said we were playing next Thursday. He did, and he came back, and he asked if we wanted to make a 45.

Wow. A single, which is, yeah. That's like 1981. Is that correct, Mark? Is that kind of correct? That is correct, yeah. Is that sure? It was a 45.

It was a 45 then. We called him a single. It was a 45 then. We called them a single. It was a 47 inch single of 45. And he said, I've got enough money to do that. I will, we don't have to sign any contracts or anything. But so that's like 1980, 81. That was 1980. And Daniel was still involved with us today.

No, wow. Yes. First of all, that's incredible and that's a, that you have that kind of long lasting relationship. So it's 1980 and what were you, you guys write this record? What were you listening to at the time that you wrote that in 1980? Yeah, I was going to say the same thing. What were you listening to and also were also, did you think back then,

you were following a trend like where this, the music business is going into Synth Pop and maybe we should do that? Or was that truly a genuine love? It hadn't really started yet, had it? We were fans of mute records. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, the fact that Daniel was offering us

a one-off single deal, that was amazing to us. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, the fact that Daniel was offering us a one-off single deal, that was amazing to us. Yeah. But who are the bands that were at that time that were on you, you were playing on your tape cassettes? Well, like Fad Gadget, like, I mean, Daniel also, for a while, had a death, Deutsche-American, a Schaf Freund, checked them out as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They sing in German, the normal. Yeah, the normal was Daniel himself. Warm leatherette. You must know that.

You must start out on Grace Jones made it famous, I guess. I don't know if I should cover it. I was just listening to this afternoon, this morning, I was just listening to Trio. Do you remember that? That they made up a little Casio. I was just listening to that. I was listening to some Blomage and I was listening to... From launch, yeah. From launch played with us a lot.

In fact, there was an album at the time called Some Bazaar album. It was by this guy who put it together. His name was Steve O. And he put together, actually, our first recording that came out was on that record. It was a song called Photographic, which was on Speak and Spell, too. But we did part of that album. And on that album, there was anyone from an early track

from Soft Cell, from Blomange, from Us. Who was it, Mark? The, the. The, the, the. Oh, man. So it was a compilation called Sambazar album. So a lot of those acts after that got signed. Well, that was, you guys, you guys kind of were right at the forefront of that to me musically.

The, the, you know, listening to the special first, great band that first, you know, this is the day is still just such an anthem. It reminds me of getting my first cool haircut when I was 12. And then, and then, but listen to that, you know, listen to you guys, listen to, and then Vince, of course, went on to form in the UK known as Yazoo, an American known as Yazoo with Allison Royay, and then he went off with Andy Bell and formed Rezor as well. And but though you guys were right there at the forefront of all of that, and I always wondered like, well, these are bands that not a lot of people know, but you guys weren't

listening to... It was post punk. You go, remember, in are bands that not a lot of people know, but you guys weren't listening to It was post punk you go remember in England. It was coming out of the ashes of We it was over punk was over and we listen to clash though like was that your? Well, there was the pistols the clash the damned Susie and the band all these bands were kind of Evry vulvin Towards the end of like 77 78 into whatever that was coming or they

were kind of, it was over, you know. And we kind of, that do it yourself attitude. Yeah. I think is what we built into. Well, you guys were, you guys had your own unique sound coming out of that in the same way sort of in the punk world that like Paul Weller and the jam never really fit quite into the punk. Right. And Paul, and then he ended up of course, and you guys probably know him and he's amazing and went off and did style counsel. But in that same way that you guys kind of took from or were born out of a different era and then created your own

genre in a way, I mean, not to put you in the spot, but because there weren't a lot of people who were making what you guys were doing, people just started doing, and I don't like, Bronsky beat, you know, they were doing stuff, but they came after you guys, like two years after speaking stuff. Yeah, it's almost like we had Bono on it, and we were talking about how, you know,

when all these pop start like Madonna, Michael Jackson, all these other kind of like big popsters. And here comes Joshua Tree, this album that was so like, wait, what? It's so alternative. And then you guys came along, I think, in the same kind of way, where it's just like, it was left of center from what everybody else is listening to. That's then, in like, 1980. We didn't really fit in any of that stuff.

Yeah, that's what it was like. We always kind of were the odd one band out in that. There was a wave of stuff that came, but we never quite fit. And I think that was a really good thing. And I think a lot of that was to do with Daniel Miller and his guidance in kind of allowing us to slowly like develop into what it was we wanted to be and by the time we got to black celebration I think we had kind of found a bit before

that but we had found our own why right Mark we sort of found yeah took us all we took us a while, yeah. Yeah. And we will be right back. SmartLess is sponsored by BetterHelp. I think every week to week, if I were to look at how much time I spend in myself versus how much time I spend on other people, I don't know if I do a very good job. I don't know if I do a good job with taking care of myself and I don't think I'm alone in that. I think that that's something that we can easily kind of get away from us. It's it's it's easy to get caught up in what everyone else needs from you and not take a moment to think about what you need from yourself. And sometimes that's

just sort of a quiet moment. Sometimes that's some reflection and looking at my role in things and trying to understand the dynamic. Or looking at what I need for my own mental health to feel better. I'm not alone in this idea that when we spend all of our time giving and feeling that we're putting out a lot of energy, emotional and otherwise, it can leave us feeling pretty stretched, thin and pretty burned out. I have found that therapy can give you the tools to find more balance in your life so that you can keep supporting others without leaving yourself behind. I've really benefited from therapy over the years and it's given me the perspective that I can't always get on my own and that I need to get from a therapist through talking about

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Another five stars. Realize my customers, real reviews, really. And now back to the show. Martin so Vince Lee, as I alluded to, Vince leaves and goes and goes and does first does Yazoo. And Martin did you, so then you started writing more because because Vincent was, were you guys equally writing, or how did that happen that you sort of stepped into that position? Well, I don't even mean to put it, I don't know how to, I wrote a couple of songs on the first album.

And, yeah, because I was the only one who actually wrote songs when this left I kind of had to do it. Right. It was just like, we were like like, so and Daniel Literally was like, is anybody else write songs? Because you're right or is left? And we were like, is that me? It's over. And it's sort of, mine was like, I'll go a couple of songs. See, look.

Well, yeah, I was lucky, but you know, well, the album was a very weird collection of songs, because some of them I wrote when I was 16, and then some of them I was making up in the studio when we were trying to finish the album. Which album, Black Celebration, you mean? A Broken Frame. No, Broken Frame, sorry.

A Broken Frame. Okay, so what was the... After he left and you stepped into that role, as Dave says, because everybody else was looking around, going, who the fuck's gonna do this? What was the first... When you started writing, what was the first sort of big hit that you wrote,

and everybody's like, Ah, fuck yeah, Martin, well done, man. Like, it was straight away at first. The first thing we recorded was, see you. And then you released that as a single, and that was a massive hit, so. Wow. We actually went the highest.

We'd gone into charts. And then we went to number six was a big thing. And Martin had this new synthesizer, the P-P-G. And so we didn't use much equipment in the studio. It was like a few pieces, down your way to a couple of pieces of electronic stuff. And so you kind of were very,

and it was no sampling then. There was no, you know, it wasn't like, well, how, how, now you you kind of were very and it was no good song. It was a great pop song. It was like sort of, Evily Bravo's song or something. We, you know, went on TV and it was a big hit. I think it was more Herman's Hermits. Ha ha ha. Mrs. Brown, you've got a lovely...

I was going to say to me, I was, but I thought that was too soft. It was the bright, we were young. My grandparents used to have a Herman's Herman's record for some reason, and we used to play it when we were kids. Do you remember that Mrs. Brown? You've got a lovely boy. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You go remember, I was only 10 when this was happening. Yeah, yeah. Are you guys so shocked that your song just can't get enough is used everywhere always? It could be anything. It's a tampon ad, It's like in a cocaine bear. It's like, you know, it's, it is. It fits, it fits everywhere.

It's, yeah. I mean, if all your songs, I really do know, probably every word to every song. And I'm like, that's the song everybody plays everywhere. I'm like, wait, it's, you know, it's funny. When, when Vince wrote that song, I think we were the first publisher that he had. We were at the offices, and I think Rod Buckle remember,

I seem to remember him saying, like he said something like this to the rest of us, we were sitting on the couch, we were kind of squashed together, and he looked at Vince and he said, you know, he said, he is going to be driving a Rolls-Royce, while you three are on the tandem. And we were like, you know, he said he is going to be driving a Rolls Royce while you three are on the tandem.

And we were like, you know, I think I see call, you know, like we were like, what, why? Like it was, and we all signed this deal. I think he gave us a hundred quid each for like to sign a publisher, not waiting it to, to, he did. And then we really, we were like, he's giving us a hundred quid for nothing. Signed, we can buy a tandem for that. Yeah, we will buy that tandem. But Vince... You know, he told Vince, you know, you'll be driving in a Rolls Royce.

And he said, this song is going to continue, like, forever. It's going to be different. And we were just kind of like, don't think so. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? But, yeah. But we were very impressed because he took us out for lunch

and Errol Brown from Hot Chocolate was in the same restaurant. Yes. That's all right. Remember that. Do you remember the band Hot Chocolate? No! You guys are two even locals. Oh, yeah.. Oh yeah.

It's hot chocolate, I woke up. That's an interesting thing. We were like, oh shit. Is that all brown from hot chocolate? So you have some hits in the UK, obviously. What was your first recognition in the US that you knew that people were listening to the band in the US? Well, I think that just can't get enough,

did get some underground play, like obviously club play and stuff like that. But I think the first radio thing was probably people are people. Yeah, it was huge. And it was still like a really underground. It was, we were never really played on mainstream radio. Right. And then talk about, first of all, just side of our, I used to get, I looked like exactly

like Dave Gond, all the time in college. People were like, you look just like Dave Gond, and this is that picture. Yeah. Wow. Wow. You better look in though. You got better. You got better.

No, no, no. The Rose Bowl wasn't that just life career changing when you sold out the Rose Bowl to everybody. That was later. It was a very happy accident, to be honest. It was. It was. But it blew everybody's mind. I remember the press was like, wait, what?

60,000. It blew our minds. I mean, we were not prepared, really. It was one of those things that I think it was as suggested to us that we could do this at the end of that particular tour of Music for the Masses tour. A big show somewhere where all the fans would travel like in a grateful dead way. We kind of had that kind of following.

And they did. There was people in there, but we ended up doing it. And DA Penny Baker filmed the whole thing for us, which was also kind of iconic to be now looking back. I see pictures from then, I see Penny is not with us anymore, but we used to think he was extremely old. Like when we were on that tour and he was, you know, document in the whole thing with us, he was like this old guy. We used to sort of like help him around the stage, you know. But be careful with that 35-minute movie. You're going to fall overdid. Like, and he'd be kept, he was like, maybe 50?

I don't know. Like, and we were like, so old. Like, this guy, who's this guy? And he was just amazed with what he was amazed with. Not really the music or anything. It was the scale. It was the scale. It was the fans. It was kind of at the front.

The fandom, yeah. It was the fandom. It was like the cult of the following that we had. Why are they obsessed with this band? And to still to this day, there is that sign. We carry that sign. It's like, the church of depression or something, you know. Yeah, yeah.

Does that feel heavy sometimes, or is it something that changes your relationship to a does it kind of shift? No, I mean, one thing I've realized recently though, is that I'm a big soccer fan. And soccer fans always think, they know better I'm a big soccer fan. And, you know, soccer fans always think, you know, they know better than the manager of the team they support. Oh, yeah. We know that. So, so our fans, like, you've gone on any of the forums, you know,

all of our fans, you know, they're always complaining. They're never happy with what we do. They're, they're basically Arsenal supporters like. Wait, wait, Mark, are you an Arsenal supporter? I am. So you're from... Did you wrap it in North London then, or...? No, we East London. I should have been a wet...

I thought you were going to be West Ham. Yeah, I should have been a West Ham supporter, but no. You know, you just... You make a decision when you're like nine or ten, don't you? Yeah. And you stick with it, you can't change. Where we came from was like Arsenal, West Ham, or Chelsea, don't you? And you stick with it, you can't change. Where we came from, it was like Arsenal, Westam or Chelsea, basically. Yeah, that was kind of like...

Dave, are you a football supporter? Do you have a... I was a Chelsea fan, so I really... And I stopped going into Chelsea after getting a total beating, actually, Arsenal, a way of Arsenal. I got chased down the street by a bunch of Arsenal fans, ended up rolling underneath a car to escape death. Where I just got such a beating. I think I was about 15, I was the last time I went to a half hour. I let them away by the way.

I let them. You finally let them. I mean, mine's done that a few times for me. You're not a guy. There were, it was at first and then like this is too much. I just read this book by this writer Bill Buford called Among the Thugs, which is about, I don't know if you read that about. That was it. The Chelsea crew were called the Crazy Gang. And it was basically people went to soccer to fight. That was kind of what it was. It was, it was, it was these huge, and

it got scary. It got really, it got really to the point where it was very dangerous. It was a movie that Gary Oldham's in actually the firm. I've seen it. That's very much what it was about the West Ham supporters about those. It was Chelsea supporters and West Ham supporters, I think, Millwall to like Millwall. Oh, Millwall, that's tough. That's tough. Yeah, man.

Hey, guys, where did the, I just remember always being so taken by the mood you guys set with your music and also your stage craft The whole aesthetic of the band it was it is so Sort of I don't know what the right term would be dramatic cinematic Yeah, but I mean I don't I don't remember that Anybody blazing a trail before you guys in that world is many many sort of People that try to replicate that since then, for sure. But where did that comfort, was that deliberate, or was it just kind of where you guys were at?

Were you inspired by something? I think we were lucky when we wrote Black Celebration that we got involved with Anton Kulbin, who became the kind of like the visual head for the band. Who's that? I'm an idiot. He's an incredible writer. There were a lot of videos, yeah. Yeah. But he's a film writer. He's a very tall Dutchman. He's a very tall Dutchman. He started out as a photographer. Okay. But you know, you make for the NME, for the NME, we did a new musical express in London. It was, he got to be the front cover guy, that would do the covers of that paper.

And it would always be like this amazing photograph of Joy Division or Echo and the Bunny Man or Suzy Su from the band. She's always were Anton Shots. So the chances of us, kind of at that time, working with Anton were pretty slim, but we got, the first time time working with Anton, we're pretty slim, but we got the first time we worked with him, I think, was AE1, actually, and then we didn't work with him again till

what AE5, Mar, AE6, with Black Celebration. We got the cover of the NME, Anton was shooting it, and he had to shoot it. He had to shoot it. He had to shoot it. He had to. He had to shoot it. I don't think he really wanted to, because he was very cool. And we weren't. And, you know, I mean, we were trying to be cool, but. And did he style that shoot in such a way

that you guys sort of borrowed from and adopted going forward? I think it sort of began there, even though we weren't probably aware of it. But by the time we, like mine said, even though we weren't probably aware of it, but by the time we, like I might have said, by the time we got to Black Celebration, we had been working in Berlin, Hansa Studios, the very famous iconic answer for it, Bowie had recorded and Iggy and various other people that we looked up to and were influenced by.

And, you know, I think that's where it really started for us. Martin had moved to Berlin as well for a short period of time there as well. And we started working there a lot. West Berlin. This was West Berlin as well. When the wall was very much, of course, still up. And we used to work right, there was a studio called Hansard. It was right on the wall.

So when you were on the balcony of the studio You literally were looking over the wall and you'd see these soldiers, you know, so Hence the bowies line in heroes, but about the you know the wall, I think Heroes always reminds me of Christian Af. Remember that film's in West Berlin? That's right. Wait, it was on the soundtrack. Yeah, yeah. That's a great film. Do you guys also, I'm sorry for the dumb dumb question and you guys have probably answered this a billion times,

but I don't know. Is there why the religious undertones, so many of them? I don't know, they just spirituality, bro. They both just turned sweating. I know. I've never been religious. Yeah. No, I'm always searching. You know, I mean, I'm not just a spirituality, Brian. I mean, I've never been religious. I'm always searching. You know, I'm always searching.

Yeah, sure. And then I feel often, especially when I'm singing my words, and there's this kind of also, sometimes it's like a... It can be like an experience that when you're singing and sometimes you're kind of in a big place like we just did the garden or whatever, and you're certain gigs that you do, it's this sort of experience, it is like a sort of, I don't know, spiritual experience. Yeah, something that's there and it's also, I have a kind of disdain for it too, it feels like, experience. Yeah, something that's there. And there's also I have a kind of disdain for it to it feels like, you know,

like a lot of bollocks as well. Yeah, it's the same time. I mean, you even sort of take it, I mean, I've always loved blasphemous rumors because I just love that lyric. I don't want to start any blasphemous rumors. But I think the gods got a six-year humor. And when I die, I expect to find him laughing. Laughing, yeah. I've always been obsessed to really... People miss the comedy, see? They miss the comedy in what we do.

They just sort of miss the humor from Martin. And they miss the delivery from Dave. But it's all there. You just got a little bit of a... The only thing brought it up because I love the comment and the cleverness of the the language that you choose. It's really cool. But then it also did fit into Jason kind of what you were asking about into the the the sort of yeah. Yeah, it became. And you get that you get that I think we like that. I think we're comfortable in that imagery.

A bit of theater. And yeah, yeah. Well, what was it about the writing though, Dave, that always sort of kind of presented a block for you because obviously you're a very intelligent man, know how to speak, know how to write, I'm sure, and then tell stories and whatnot. But when it comes to lyrics, is it, and Martin, I'm sure you can speak better to this too, is there an attempt to tell a story when you write a lyric or just to set some poetry that then obviously the music comes later to fit that or vice versa?

What was the thing that kept you away from it early on, Dave? Well, in the early days and also, you know, even now when we're singing a lot of these great songs at Mines Ren, they always change too. They change over the years depending on what's going on in your life. They represent something different and they have memories, songs and memories, you know, and they're there and they're there to also develop new memories and the viet to come, you know. But I feel like if you really tap into a good song when you're writing and there's something and it doesn't, you know, you kind of have to work it sometimes, but sometimes if you really let go of control of the lyric or whatever and allow something to just, you know,

it's a combination of things that might happen at the same time, you could just follow the idea, you know, it's just allow it to just, you know, and other things you have to, you have to kind of like, you know, move, when we work in a studio together, for instance, if Martin's, you know, is always right, and the majority of the songs, I try and create, I work with a song for a long time before I actually go to finally sing it. So I want to live with that song for a long time, and when I step up to the mic, I already know where I want to go with it, and it's always somewhere visual. It's a visual voice. But the melody that perhaps you've written to go with it or chosen to go with it, I would imagine would inform what words work or what words don't work more.

It can. They serve each other. And a lot of the time it's about removing stuff. We did that law on this record. We sort of, there's a lot of clutter that you automatically put in place because you think it's supposed to be there, but quite often it's removing things

to allow a simple idea to really come through. All right, and I love like, you know, almost all your melodies that you guys write are you think it's gonna go to the obvious one that the ear is familiar with and boom, you take a lot of time. That's my, that's my, he'll take one of my songs for instance that we were working say a song like wagon tongue which is on this record and I sent my little demo to Martin of me like

hand-fistedly playing on a guitar trying to get the song out and find the chords and and I send it to Martin and Martin sends it back with his beautiful, like, crop work, S-collect, the chords, and arpeggiating sense of stuff. And I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah. And that's up. But then that takes me then to another place, you see. Right, yeah. It changes the perception, yeah, again, I'm sure it's the same with you guys when you're

working in film and behind or in front of the camera. Yeah, yes, and. You know, you feed off an audience in theatre, I'm sure. And then when you're just in a room together and you've got a bunch of crew standing around you and you've got to create it for yourself. Otherwise, there's just a bunch of crew around you. Well, I know.

Well, it is true that I can speak as the three of us, I've worked with both of these guys. And neither none of us, I've worked with both of these guys. And neither none of us really sort of come in prepared in the sense that we don't fully have it memorized a certain way. You can't. You have to kind of have a loose relationship with whatever you're doing, because so much of it is informed by what the other person is bringing sort of leave room for the effect of the other Yeah, yeah, like that's a But by the way, well, can I just really quick and then I look it off this J

I'm gonna send you this song because it's one of the most famous songs It's such an old song it's called somebody, but you'll love it because and I love this because the dumb dumb didn't quite get it back then About the comment, you know, it's I to share, share the rest of my life, share my innermost thoughts, know my intimate details. Like it goes on and on, it's gorgeous lyrics about sharing your life with somebody. And the last lyrics at the end is,

though things like this make me sick. In a case like this, I'll get away with it. Which completely obliterates the whole song. And like as a kid, I was like, wait a minute, I was about to cry. This is why. Because love is ballocks. That's why I love is ballocks. Yeah.

It still gets played at lots and lots of weddings. And I'm so nervous just having a laugh at everybody else's experience. So for a dummy music listener like me, I always struggle to hear what the words, what did they say? What did they know? Back it up, is it?

I'll screw it. I'll just listen to you. Martin, do you ever get, have you ever had a point where you've gone to Dave and you said, this is a beautiful line and I can't understand what you're saying. Annuncie more. Or don't just mumble that

because it sounds best. Right? You're sort of missing this word structure that you're doing. It depends our drunk who are you saying. Right. There's that tipping point. We all know the tipping point. It's great.

And then it's not great anymore. You know, it's enough. Back in the day. We were lucky that we sorted something out before you actually had to do a guide book or in the studio because there was a track that didn't go on the album that's coming later in the year. And it's called Life 2.0. What did you think it was called, Dave?

Oh, yeah. Oh, no. Life, what was it, Mark? I forgot. Life, life to... Life to... I have to do, do, do. No, life, what was it, Mark? I forgot. Life, life to, life to,

to perform or something. I don't know, life to. I think I even wrote it down. I wrote it down because when Mark sent me the song, he often doesn't send the words. He'll send a demo or whatever. And so I kinda listen. Life to prolong.

Life to prolong. That was it. Life too prolonged, that was it. Life too prolonged, I was like, okay, all right. Life too prolonged, I don't think anyone's ever used the word prolonged in a song, that's pretty cool. Dave, when you're performing it later in the year, you've got to, or if you're performing it now on stage, you've got to get the audience going saying, that's too prolonged. That can happen.

I said the other night, let's go nicks, you know, because at the end of everything counts, I just shout out in the garden, let's go nicks. A lot of views. Oh, that must have gone big. Well, be right back. This episode is brought to you in part by 8 sleep. Did you know that temperature is one of the most important factors in improving your sleep quality?

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D and five free travel packs with your first purchase. Go to athleticgreens.com slash smartless to give AG1 a try. That's athleticgreens.com slash smartless. Get out! All right, back to the show. Did I hear you say that it got kind of craft work asked? Did you say yes? Yes.

It's so funny because you're like the third band that's referenced craft work and I was just listening to Tour de France this morning as well, which is such a, I love that tune. And I think it was Jay when you had the boys from... Radiohead were talking about craft work as well. Like it was just what an influential band these guys were. It's unbelievable. Well, they were probably instrumental in Martin getting a synth. I was really managing it in the first five. Really?

Yeah, and we were talking about the early bands that influenced us. We mentioned that wave that was coming up with us, but they were obviously way before that. You know, auto-barm was like 74. Yeah, yeah. Wow, man. I think Daniel was well. Daniel Miller, like, he sort of, once he's influenced,

he was listening to, you know, he's a little bit older than us. So there was like, noise, and there was all these, like, German kind of, those, that kind of stuff, Mark, that like, we wouldn't have probably heard, really, if it wasn't for him. And it's that sort of crowd rock that was called that stuff as well.

A lot of like waiting for the 9-4, for instance, it's got that continuous kind of like rolling progression all the time. These influences definitely, okay. We were lucky to work with a lot of people, engineers, producers, people that were all on that cusp of well as well, of wanting to do something new with pop music.

Well, you guys also embody that too, Martin. That sort of, like you said, Dave, that progression. You guys understood the importance of it, that sort of drove so many of your songs. Atmosphere. Atmosphere, and it almost hypnotic, right? Atmosphere over a lot of other things that I'm sometimes, we would go round with like tight machines

into like scrap yards or building sites and record like weird shit noises that you heard. And then you'd hop. Everything counts has all that stuff at the start, right? Yeah, I don't even know what that was now. What was that? Like a store or something? Yeah, like a store or something. Like a store or something.

That's the industrial. That was like a Chinese violin that was badly sold. Oh, yes. Yeah, that we couldn't play. It was an instrument that we couldn't play. That you just made a bit of a play. Jason was an issue that we couldn't play that you just might have been a big political. Jason, did you want to hear me say that again? Yeah, no, I think we got it.

You guys are uniquely qualified to comment about where we find the music industry today. And are you guys a big fan or is it a love hate with what technology, digital and all that stuff has done as far as the way in which music is sold now a days and what that's done to the touring business and what not because you guys obviously have the best of both worlds. I mean, you're still playing Madison Square Garden and you're still selling albums. But so how does all that sit with you today's current makeup of the business. Sorry, and be honest. Yeah. I mean, we came up a good and bad, right? We came up a teens, I mean, it was like albums, vinyl, you know, getting that record, getting, you know, going to having enough money to go buy a 45 or a 7, you know, which was I think at the time when I first probably 45 P or whatever, like something like that. You know, to go, you know, stole it from somewhere and you got, you went to the market and you

look through the singles and looked at the covers and go, this one looks weird and interesting and go, well, what is this? Of course, we had one show in England, like this TV show called Top of the Pops, where you were on Thursday nights, or whatever you'd see music like Bowie, and Gary Glitter, and Slide, and T-Rex, and all these sort of 70s things,

and rock-sea music. That was a thing, that was like, where you get lost in it, but I think the album, you know, the album, I know Martin does as well, we both still play albums and buy albums and stuff, but you know, and listen to music digitally too. There's something has been lost, of course, in that, the specialness of an album, you know, and how you listen to that,

how you play one side and then turn it over, and you've got to actually make the effort, you know, to do something. Right, right. Yeah, yeah. I love that. Yeah, I remember that. It's just sitting in a room and putting a wreck, taking it out of the sleeve, and putting it on. Remember that? Mel of it, you know. It's brilliant. You'd have a cleaner, taking it out of the sleeve, and putting it on. Remember that? Melovate, you know. It's brilliant. You'd have a cleaner, you'd have the dust or the brush. The brush, you'd let it go around, and clean off the needle,

and drop the needle on it, and sit there, and maybe you would have lyrics. Sometimes if a record came out, you were waiting for it, and it had lyrics, you were like, Yes, that was cool. That was so, I mean, the barwee stuff would like be like, I remember I stole from my friend Phil Gurry. I was around his house and he had my nose for a go.

And I was around his flat and he had the double live, David Live at the Philadelphia Tower album. And I opened it up and I saw that this lyrics sheet, like, let's leave, fell out. and I was just kind of like sitting there and he went off to the toilet or sang for a minute. And when he was gone, I took it, I folded it up and I shoved it in my jacket and I was like, stole it with a stole.

I was still everything if it wasn't tied down, by the way. But I stole this and I got it home and I had the lyrics myself and everything. And the battle week later, it feels like, I know you stole my lyrics from like, you know, I didn't idea, but you know, that's how special it was to have something like, she couldn't look it up, you know. I had a roommate in college who was obsessed with albums

and I took his beta. What was that group, Beethoven, camper beta, Beethoven? Camper van Beethoven, let this kid in. Take this kid and head's bowling. Yeah, and I took that. I was really sitting in his room. We were listening to the album.

And I took the jacket and I was so hot. And I took the album jacket and I started fanning myself and completely bent the whole thing. And he never heard from me again. Oh, no. He wouldn't talk to me. Yeah. Yeah.

I remember how this is, I have so many like different record memories But the one that I remember when that first civil minds record came out and they did a clear record Do you remember that and they yeah, we have a red vinyl right now? Mimense more Do you really is it came out red file? Yes in red clear one as well There's a red one a hundred and's a red one, 100 and 90 grams. Like, yeah, it's cool.

It's really cool. Well, now I'm going to buy it because that guy would come full circle. So you have this record came out. By the way, I was just thinking about the video that I just saw also has sort of like, I guess religious, I mean, you guys are in a gutsy. Well, it's a bit camp, too.

Come on, let's face it. I'm crawling around on my hands and knees in a grave. I'm sitting playing, I'm so thoughtfully his guitar. And I'm crawling around him. Like, yeah. Sniff the glove. Yes, so when Anton Corbin says to me, so Dave, I want you to, you know, get on hands and knees,

Corbin graveyard on the floor, you know, this graveyard's just like set up in a studio, by the way, as well, of course. And it looks already very, very kind of like, as soon as we get there, we're like, this is, this looks like really, like somebody said this up. At least, as I know, I wanted to look kind of fake Dave and I was like okay So he's the only person that would get me to do something like that and I think we did about the dark

I'm crawling around. I'm surprised he didn't do that actually I'm the leash Yes, it's the only way we got away is because I'm the one calling around, of course. If we had some, you know, beautiful girl or guy to do that or something, we would be in big trouble now. Sure, I see. I have a question. How do you guys determine who sings what track?

It's kind of obvious sometimes. It's usually obvious. Just because of where we're the ranges or because. Yeah, I mean, well, just so with me on this album, I knew I thought to myself, you know, Martin, Martin would just be asking that so much better than me. You know, it's different. Is it we have a different a different tone, a different way we sing. But together, it's just unbelievable. I used to get bent out of shape a bit. I used to years ago, I wanted to sing everything

and I used to feel like it was, but my voice wasn't good enough and that's my mind, but to sing a couple of songs. I mean, always, yeah, that was back in the years ago, but now I don't. It was, you know. What it means you got to break on stage as well. Yeah, I get a break too.

I can't, I'm just like, so two hours set, I plus, I mean, I need that 10 minutes or so in the middle to sort of get some oxygen. But isn't that funny? And I'll see this to all of us is all gentlemen over 50. Isn't that funny you get to this age? And you're like all the things that used to sort of, you take personally your bother, you're whatever. You got so stupid.

You use this shit, it's so stupid. Yeah, I'd rather take the break. Yeah, I'd rather take the break. I'd take the break. personally your body or whatever now you're like Oh, fuck, Jesus shit, it's so stupid. Yeah, I'd rather take the break. I'd take the break. Yeah, I would take the break for sure. And now, what are you doing on your breaks nowadays? Like at the garden during your 10 minutes versus what you were doing 30, 40 years ago during your 10 minute break? Has that changed backstage?

That's changed a lot. Because for Jason, Jason, for Jason and me, it's changed a lot. We don't produce any more. Yes, right. We're probably squeezing a nap. We're as back at the old days. Yeah, we would have been, we would have been, you know, looking for something to just get a little bit more electricity into that set, you know. Yeah.

Was that fun playing the garden that must have been? Oh, my God. It always is. It's the church in New York, isn't it? Sure. It's a... Oh, they must have gone. No, we've been lucky enough to play. There are a lot of times over the years.

It's always one of those gigs that you're... You know, it's the anticipation and everything about it. I was lucky enough this time as well. My daughter's band, Stella Rose, and the dead language. We got... They had them open for us. So it was, that's cool. The nepotism was out the charts, but I could. Yeah, good.

Give the shit off this, Neppel Baby. I don't give a fucking shit about the Neppel Baby. Yeah, so hot. You do it if you could too. By the way, here's the other thing, man. That is a great name for a bad. I know No, spell it like a spell runs in the dead like Dead languages fucking great

You know, they're pretty cool to they're like they're like way cooler than us But we were the headline in acts so yeah Because it's me I have to ask you have you ever been approached or would you ever do From the ground up with new songs brought by musical we did it we did get asked one somebody had this idea And they showed us a script, but it was all about like a bunch of heroin at it 5 6 7 8 So you know, we politely turned it down We're not it. 5, 6, 7, 8. So, you know, we politely turned it down. Jason and I would like to, and Sean's going to, you know, obviously going to run it, going

to direct and stuff, and it's about a bunch of middle eight white guy golfers. You got something there for sure. You don't have to think that. I just want to say before we let you guys go, because this has been absolutely mind-blowingly incredible. Sean, and this is really Sean to you. What would you say, Sean, can you believe that the college is you? You guys, I can't even describe it.

I have to tell you guys right now to your faces, this is the Honest of God Truth. I'm doing a show here in New York, Broadway show. And every day that I walk to the theater, sometimes I get a ride, sometimes I walk, every time I walk, I listen to you guys. I literally, as I'm walking, I'll go, hey, Siri, play the pesh-node, I'm on my eye.

And tell the Broadway show is about a heroin addict. Anybody? Yeah, that's a true story, though, you guys are. And I want to say this before you leave, such a massive, massive influence on me and my life in such a huge way, just incredible. That's all I can say. That's very close. That's like it was so much.

The poster is up in college and the concerts I've been to to see you guys, it's just everywhere. It's just I can't, I can't, I can't go. I mean, there's a cool thing about what we get to do that we we get to do is that over the years that we get to hear from somebody like you or you know other artists have a musician's and stuff where what we've done somehow is influenced like them to do what they do yeah and you know this is this is how it goes around. And that's a, I think, an amazing thing about music and film and stuff like that, how it can, you know,

come be the soundtrack to our lives. For a while. I mean, it's inside of my DNA now. And when you guys just popped on screen, you're like, shh. Shaking. Yeah. And Sean, I mean, you, I was gonna say was,

what would college, Sean Hayes, say to was gonna say was, what would, what would college, Sean Hayes say to this moment? Like, what would you know? Well, I would be an idiot and be so over the top and trying to be funny and then you guys would be like, that guy's too much and then you would move on. We were probably to let you hang out. That's like, we're probably not to hang out. If he was entertaining for a bit,

you would've been having about a bit as being kind. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you've been the soundtrack to so many millions of people's lives and you're both such great guys on top of it all. What an absolute pleasure and honor to be both of you. And congratulations on the new record of the tour.

I really want to come and see you guys. Yeah. Are you in LA in September, right? We're coming. We just finished a little run in the States, but we're coming back, yeah, I think September October, October and November December, we're in, we're doing a much bigger North American too. We're off to Europe.

We're going to come and see you guys. Oh please. Yeah, you know, thanks for having us on your show. It's really, yeah, thank you, thanks for having us on your show. It's really yeah, thank you Yeah, this has been a dream come true Yeah, yeah, honestly all all three of you in some way shape a form also have been in my life So I could say that we apologize and you we don't always have to say that honestly as well You know, but I mean that's it his really thank you. It's very nice

If you guys can do this podcast for all the best of us. Thank you. You on the road I see you guys My god, well are you guys all right? I was really honestly truly shaking. Like I haven't done that. Sean, are you sitting on plastic? Did you lay down some plastic? Scotty just under under frame lay down some plastic for you. That's why Scotty came in at the middle. Yeah. I mean, not since the Michael Jackson concert 1983

was I shaking. Oh my god. I mean, they really, I really honestly swear to God, listen to them every day. No, I know. That's crazy. I know. That's crazy. I know, that's unbelievable. Why is that, is that something that kind of

gets you going for the show? I think a lot of, I don't wanna bring this up, but I think a lot of like, they have a big gay following. And I think because it was, they were cool and underground and like, left of center and they weren't like machismo, hard, big hair rock and you know, dude. Yeah, there was something kind of interestingly glam about them.

I kind of like Bowie was beforehand. Yeah, Sean, I get that. I think it's not a gay straight thing or anything. It's just, I had a lot of gay friends in college that we found this band and we're like, oh, they're so cool. I think I know what you mean. And there were some bands that sort of came,

but certainly a ratio were a band that were big and gay culture back in the 80s. Right, because I guess a lot of the Peshmoan songs were turned into dance songs and they would play them in the clubs. Oh, that's a good idea. And so I think that the personal Jesus, every one of those personal Jesus,

and you know, all those earlier songs, they have a beat that you can dance to. And so they turn those into club mixes. And I think that's probably one of the reasons for like, oh, what's this band? It's so cool. Plus they were like, dark. Wouldn't it be funny if I got a personal assistant

named Jesus? No. Why would that be funny? Because then I'd have a personalus. No. Why would that be funny? Because then I'd have a personal Hazus. Oh. Wow, I'm slow today. It's a long walk around the block, but boy, the address is nice. Is that what you're talking about?

But just blown away. So, in the first, they're a huge part of my life, yeah. Yeah. I say, I have so many, it's kind of like when we've had other, but for these guys, I have those markers in my mind of where I was when that came out. Just can't get enough personal Jesus, blasphemous rumors. All those things. People are people.

Just like, you know, yeah. Jay, you would know like, no, all those you just mentioned, you know. Yeah. Jay, you would know like, No, all those you just mentioned, I know. Yeah. No, I'm very, very aware of the Pesh mode. I just, I wasn't, I didn't have the glow stick in my teeth. Like you did Sean and well, you know, I just fucking like, How was I supposed to find my way home?

Just, you know, you know. You know, but you, you can't believe before Jason really got into classical music, you'd get in his car with him. I'm not kidding. And the fucking music that Jason would listen to. I know something. It would be so random, not necessarily bad, but it would be like random and some would be brutal.

Yeah. By the way, I got into it with a woman on Instagram about two months ago, Sean, maybe I told you, because she was saying, it's actually, you're thinking of Yazoo, it's not Yazoo. And I said, no, in North America, Yazoo was called Yaz for legal reasons. And I had to school her because I was like, don't fucking correct me. Anyway, what was ourselves big hit? So painted love. Tainted love. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I listened to that too. And I love classic rock, but I also loved so much of the, I loved Bronsky beat. I love, you know, I can just loved it so much. I loved all those bands.

I loved them, of course, the Pesh mode. I don't know. Hey. But you know, like when they first came on, I was looking. Here we go. Boy, man. I tell you something, you know what it is. It's a look in your eye and you kind of take a breath when you're looking.

No, it's a thank God. Thank God I had my glasses on when they came on because I couldn't believe my eyes. So I thank God I saw them with my reading part of my lower glasses, which is sometimes called, called, what's your glasses called? Don't go up high. Bye. Bo-bo-bo. Bye.

That's a depeche mode version of goodbye. Don't go up high. Bye. Vocal. If I can pass. Bye. That's a Dopech mode version of goodbye. Right? It's Martin taking it left instead of right. That's right. Bye. Vocals.

Bye. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Blast. Smartness is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Rob Armjurf, Bennett Barbaco, and Michael Granterry. Our next episode will be out in a week wherever you listen to podcasts, or you can listen to it right now, early on Amazon Music, or early and ad-free by subscribing to Wondry Plus in Apple Podcasts or the Wondry app. Celebrity Beef, you never know if you're just going to end up on TMZ or trending on Twitter

or in court. I'm Matt Bellasive And I'm Sydney Battle, and we're the host of Wonder E's new podcast, Dis and Tell. Each episode explores a different iconic celebrity feud, from the build-up, why it happened, and the repercussions. What does our obsession with these feuds say about us? We're starting off with a pretty messy love triangle between Selena Gomez and Justin and Haley Bieber, a seemingly innocent TikTok of Selena talking about her laminated eyebrows.

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