SmartLess - "Elle Fanning"

Episode Date: March 30, 2026

Tornado-warning: it’s Elle Fanning. The Number 5, Imagination vs. Reality, the Power, and a real-life baby. We all love each other, blah blah blah… on another gorgeously fresh new epiz of SmartLess. Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of SmartLess ad-free and a whole week early. Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Oh my God, we made it. We made it. I thought we were going to be late, but here we are. I didn't have a chance to stop and potty. Oh, you didn't potty yet? Maybe we could potty today. You want to call this pottying? Yeah.

You made us run in here for that. Yeah, we can call it pottying. We're going to potty. Oh, man. Welcome to Smartless. Don't you think we should go on another trip? I do. Why don't we? We always talk about it.

By the way, do you guys like doing it? I just did a bunch of laundry. I like, you know what, Scottie and I were talking about this. Hold on, I need a neck brace. A couple things, wait a second. What do you, why are you looking at over your shirt? The listener's going to think that we've made a weird edit. Because I just finished, no, no, no, I just finished a ton of laundry.

And I don't usually like folding laundry, but I like folding towels. I like folding towels because it's like OCD. So you guys, are you trying to tell us that you do laundry when you're back home in L.A.? No, sir. I tell you what, you're a fascinating dinner date. Tell us more of them. The folding of the towels, man. Do you guys, you know what I mean, though?

I will tell you that, you know, my... Did you guys have a lot of discipline growing up as far as, like, having chores and learning how to do everything? Yeah. That, like, I know how to wash windows without streaks. I know how to fold laundry. I know how to load a dishwasher. Yeah, I didn't do that. I know how to sweep in a way that you're not resweeping certain areas.

Like, my dad taught me how to do everything. Right. Yeah, same. Like before I could like push back and say, I don't want to learn. I have not done that with my kids. I mean, they get by. But like I did. I just.

No, but your kids are very responsible. Yeah, no, they're incredible. I love them to death. And they're, they do great. But I have, I've, I wasn't diligent about like teaching them how to do the things that you're going to need to do the rest of your life. Like folding a towel, how to do it properly. Yeah, I remember my mom teaching me how to do that. Making a bed.

Yeah, we had to because we didn't have any money. You know that whole story. And we didn't have a washer and dryer. It always broke down. So me and my mom took garbage bags of clothes and put them in the car and drove to the laundromat. And I was the only kid that did that. Wow.

Yeah. Out of the five kids, by the way, they're all listening. Yeah, we're going to argue about that later. I started last night getting ahead of the snow outside of my stoop here. and so I was out every couple hours. And you knew how to shovel. Yeah, of course, because it did bring me back and made me feel like it was a young Canadian.

It's the best, right? Yeah, I love it. So good. Jay, what about you getting behind the snow? You know, like, so I would, that's a Coke joke. It's a Coke joke? Early or in minute eight? I know, sorry. J.B., do you want to...

But, wait, wait, wait, wait, so there's something that my dad never did teach me because by the time we left the snow, I was four. So I didn't have to shovel it. So I would struggle with snow. There's probably a real, you need a pair to teach you. Albo grease. You don't start at the bottom, right?

You don't dig that shovel all the way to the bottom and try to lift it up. You got to start taking off the top, right? Well, it depends on how much snow you go, yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's why also, like, if you go out and you get it early enough, like I did it a couple times last night, so that by this morning was it too insane. You know that night? Yeah, I used to do that. What do you think my dad taught me?

Uh-oh. Wait, can I come back to this? Because I'd love to fill out a joke list of 10 to 20. Yeah, I mean. And then I'd like to, you know, rank them and really just give you the right week. I think ultimately how to lower expectations, I guess, in people, in people. Keep your expectations super low. Also, how to keep your emotional knees bent, you know, always ready for disappointment.

Yeah. Right. Emotionally bend from the knees, I guess. Yeah. Uh-huh. in a ready position. Yes, and now look at me. Yeah.

Anyway. Yeah, you're doing great. I will say, no. You know, Shawnee, for all the joking that we do about it, something like that, you're one of the most caring, thoughtful people I have ever had in my life. That's a true story. You really, really, I was saying it to somebody the other day. Incredible.

I was saying, I was saying, Sean is the first guy. Anything's going on in your life. Something's happened. He's the first person to check in, send you something, help. Like he's, thank you. Sean, you are a perfect example of nature versus nurture. So there's no even question about the nurture part because we all know the story. Your father had something to do in some other place aside from staying with you.

And you have been able to become this incredible person. Yes, your mother was incredible to you as well. But you have, you have natured yourself all the way to the incredible Sean Hayes. That's very nice. I natured myself. That's a new verb. There's a few things in there that I really enjoyed your father. It had something else to do elsewhere.

He was late for something. It natured yourself. I would accept that compliment as I'm trying to learn as I get older, so thank you for that. And I will return it to both of you. I think we all come from backgrounds that challenged us to become better people. Yeah, amen. Yeah. Which tease up our guest perfectly.

I guess it does. I was going to say, I mean, the warning signs were there. I mean, your dad had five kids and he bought a two-seater. So it's not, it's like this guy, he built an escape pod. He was sending you guys signs. It's so true. A little MG convertible. Yes.

I mean, it just wrote for him in a bag, like an overnight bag. By the way, he had that too. It's so true. Anyway, I'll tell you something about it. our guest. She is really no stranger to awards. SAG Awards, any kind of, you know, it's insane.

I mean, nominated for like 122 various awards around the world, 19 wins. And, you know, we're talking about, what are we talking about? We're talking about SAG's Critics' Choice. Recently, an Academy Award, I can't say what yet, because you're going to know exactly who it is,

and I want you to guess, Emmys, everything she has, and her, for pieces of work that we all really, really adore, and she, stuff that we've all seen a million times, and we're like, oh, yeah, the greatest. Stuff like breaking out in, I am Sam, Daddy Daycare, okay, all the way to the new predator bad, and then this year's sentimental value

for which she is nominated for an Academy Award for Best Supporting Actress. You guys, it's another than L. Fanning. Oh, my God, you had to be spinning. I didn't know where you were going with this. I know, I took you on a weird route just to go into credits. Did I take it off at the right time?

You did. Yes, that was great. We usually have a guest in there. We didn't even get to a guess. I know. But I just stopped. First, you go, I am Sam. I'm like, oh, God, they're going to think it's Dakota.

No, I just wanted to throw them off the scent, Elle. I wanted him to be thrown. Wait, Elle, I just watched Badlands. It was so good. Oh, you did? Oh, thank you. I bugged Jason forever, and Jason's scheduling my schedule and never got together. I was like, fuck it, I'm just going to watch it with that.

I hear that's incredible. Thank you so much. I am a real listener to this. And my sister and I and our friend Chloe, we absolutely love your show and your documentary. Oh, that's nice. So this is a big deal. I'm like sitting here, like my heart is pounding. Well, we're so happy for you to be here.

I do know Will, we've been seeing each other around. Yes, yes, we. Oh, congrats. How long you guys been dating? From the puck convention. We can puck the website or puck a hockey thing or puck the website thing? No. Puck is a real, that's a for Tracy.

I wanted to get that in. Yes. Yeah. Tell Trey, because I don't know what it is either. No, that's a real listener. Puck is, what is it, Will? It's that guy, Matt, Matt, what's his name? Matt Bologna?

Belloni? Boy, I would get crushed for that. He's a great, who's also, John Heilman and, right? Yeah, there's a lot of great. Am I right about that? Is that the same crew? Wait, I still don't know what, but, I mean, it's a website. It's like an entertainment email thing.

too, right? People get, like, in the industry you have to sign up for it and it's like you get little inside scoops and things? Yes. Yeah, there's a bunch of stuff in there. It's very, very hard. You must subscribe to it, Jason. Oh, you know it, girl. But wait a minute. For me, for me and my sister,

I still don't understand. So Puck is a thing, like a website. It's like a newsletter. It's like a newsletter. So you sign up, they send an email that you sign up for thing. Yeah, it's like a website. And how are you and how? And then you have access. Like, how does that? Well, they did a, what was it like a panel? P&A, Panels.

Q&A panel together. Yeah, okay, got it, got it. Yeah. And he was there for his thing on, and I was there for sentimental value. Jesse Plymonds was with us, and Tessa Thompson. Yeah. Right, right.

I've only heard amazing things about sentimental. I can't wait to see it. Can I tell you, sentimental value is so good. I love that so much. I don't know if I told, maybe I talked to you about it, but I think I talked to you about it, and your wonderful director, Joaquin and Wachim Trier,

and also with Stellan and Renata, how amazing that film is. It's such a beautiful film. It's such a, I mean, just the level of filmmaking in every department from the direction to the acting to the production to all of it is so complete. I mean, that is truly the height of great filmmaking, I think. Thank you. Yeah, it was an unreal experience with Yocham, and it was just really something.

Yonim, I said his name. How do you pronounce his last name, too? Is it trier or? Trier. Trier. Yeah. How embarrassing. I'm sure there's going to be a headline how we've just besmirched the guys.

A lot of people say Joaquin or Yokin or something. Yeah. If you were, if you had a Norwegian accent, they would say it different. It would be like, Yor Kim. York Kim. Yeah. Yor Kim. Now I say Yon Kim.

Yon Kim. Wait, Al, where are you right now? Are you in New York? I am in L.A. I am in L.A. Yes. But I have been, my boyfriend lives in New York. And so he just sent me actually a photo.

Yeah, it's crazy in New York right now, isn't it? He said these photos. It's so nuts. There was a tree that fell down in front of his house, this giant tree, but it looks so cozy. I mean, I'm in L.A., and it's, like, glorious and sunny outside, so it's so crazy how opposite it is. Yeah, you and J.

I know. I had, yeah, yeah, I just, I ventured out for two minutes. My local coffee shop's closed. Nobody went in because there's not, by the way, I just, there's nothing open. Nothing's open. My gym was open, thank God, Obvi. Wait, pause for compliment. Nothing?

Okay, moving on. Wait, so, Elle, you're in L.A. You spent a lot of your life in L.A. You were born, we're going to go early days. You were born in it just outside Atlanta, I'm guessing, right? Yes, yes. I was born actually during a tornado warning. Whoa.

Yeah. I've been through a tornado warning in Atlanta. It's not fun. Well, I guess, yeah, I wasn't really, definitely don't remember it. I was going through something else at the time. Wait, so your mom was giving me birth to you while there was a tornado. So, like, happening? I don't think it was happening, but it was very close.

And there was a warning. So, like, the hospital, like, the hallways, like, there was kind of the shutdown. Yeah, what do you do? You don't think about that. That meant that my sister was in the room while my mom gave birth. And she was asleep on a cot next to the bed. And my mom didn't find out with either of us, like, if we were a boy or a girl. And so my mom gave birth, and then my sister woke up and, like, famously.

And I think it's on camera. we have like a video of it, but she says, she says, what is it? And it's like, it's a baby sister. And that,

yeah. That's very sweet. You're lucky your parents didn't do that thing of like decided to name you like NATO or, you know, F3 after the size of the hurricane. I know.

Yeah, I was born in Georgia. Like my family is very southern. So even though, yeah, even though I grew up in L.A., like I moved here when I was three, So I definitely don't remember Georgia that much But the southern roots like run deep

And my grandmother lived with us growing up And she still lives with my mom And she would go with me on film sets And my mom would go with my sister Oh wow Because when we were working at the same time Yeah you were And what I loved about reading

Reading up a little bit about your sort of early days Is how your friend And I mentioned I am Sam Lumpur Because you did play a younger version of your sister in the movie. And someone like Wikipedia, of course, we have a deep research department, said that you,

your first, it sort of lists your first few credits, and then it says her first role where she wasn't playing a young version of her sister. Right, because I did it a couple times. Yeah, they would throw me in. Yeah, because they would, you know,

there would be flashback scenes, and then they'd be trying to find a young girl that looked like Dakota, and then I would be on set, like, with my mom. And they're like, actually, can we just use L real quick? And so technically, and my mom's like, sure. And they took me and I just got handed to Sean Penn and we're swinging on the swing.

Wow. Wow, that's the first moment. Jason played a young Justine Bateman many times. Many. Right. He's put in the extensions and off I went. Throw out the hair. What's the age difference between you two?

She's four years older than me. Okay. And is just the two of you? Just us, yep. Just us. Yeah. And when's so... Yeah.

Well, how old were you when you guys started? I'm getting to sort of this question about like missing childhood and all that stuff. You're going down the dark way. People love asking that to us child. There's a great kind of, there's a great... I know you worked a lot when you were a kid, but there's also... There was a lot of normalcy there, and I was going to get to get to it. but you go for it, Elle.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's definitely something, you know, that's asked. I mean, I, the origin story, it's so funny because my sister's like, you're not telling it exactly right. And I'm like, well, I was a baby. I'm like, you know, it's been told to me. So, because a lot to do with my start is really her start into everything. And so she was in, you know, Georgia.

My mom and my dad, they were. both athletes. My dad was a professional baseball player. My mom was played tennis in college. Her dad was a quarterback in the NFL for the Eagles. What? Yes. That's crazy. Sports is in our blood and we were really, yeah, we were really

supposed to, I think mom probably thought that we would be tennis players or something. Oh really? Or, I mean, you know, something, sporty. And it's funny, I mean, this has to do with it. But like our mom is, she tans really easily, has really dark eyes, super dark long hair. And so this, it all tracks because, um, our dad is part, he's German. His mom was German. And so we kind of came out with this like fair, fair skin and this like white hair and

blue eyes. And so when my sister, you know, she went out on the tennis court from, you know, my mom got her out there young. She's like, you know, four, five, you know. And she would just get so hot. And, like, we don't tan. Like, the sunburn was just insane. And so she's like, oh, my God, like, my precious little, you know, fair-skinned, like, baby. Like, she's just not cut out for this sport, like, you know, and then she put her in soccer. And it's like, yeah, like, we need to get her indoors.

Let's get her on a dark stage. But I appreciate, you know, I think there's the athleticism and the discipline is actually really, translated into acting. Like, as I've gotten older, I really see the correlation to it. Like I approach my work kind of in this athletic way. Like a team sport? Yeah, team sport, but also just, I think the adrenaline, like, hiking yourself up, like making sure you're nourished, like, further.

Like, there's just something to it that I think there is a correlation there. And so then, I know I'm trying the origin story because it's kind of crazy. But my mom wanted, you know, wanted Dakota to, because I wasn't bored. yet, but to find her passion, like, okay, what are we going to put you? And so then she was like, all right, you know, she did violin, she played the piano. And my sister was like a savant. Like, she is just, was always incredibly smart for her age. And she has a photographic memory.

Her memory is insane, which doesn't help in arguments because she's completely always right. Right. And what that's like. Yeah. It's a burden. It's a burden. And so then there was. this, you know, then my mom kind of would observe my sister playing around the house constantly

of just all she wanted to do was like play with her baby dolls. I mean, a lot of kids do, but it was just very extreme in an elaborate in all of that. And then when I came along, she got like this real life baby to play with, she could make it even more real. You know, we would watch the TLC shows like my baby story. As a kid, we loved that. And all. And all, Oh, we would play. And then she would give birth to me. So I would, like, come out of this bean bag, like, underneath her. And, like, and we wouldn't perform this for people.

But we would do it for ourselves. Right. Like, push, push. And it'd just be like a beanbag. Oh, yes, yes. And it's like, oh, God, we're losing her. We're losing her. You know, she's, like, pounding on me.

And I'm playing along or just these real scenarios. And so my mom, I mean, we're kind of jumping around, but this was kind of, yeah, I guess Dakota was like five, so I was around. But she put her in this play camp in Georgia. And the people at the play camp, they were putting on this, I think it was called Bluefish, like this play. And she got a big part in that play and just lit up, like found.

They could just see something in her from the other kids that was different. And they talked to my mom and were like, you know, maybe she could do some commercials or get an agent here. you know, maybe get a TV show or just, it wasn't, but it wasn't like, go to the movies. It was just like, try this out type of thing. Yeah, yeah. And, I mean, mom had a genuine conversation, like, with Dakota at that age, like, is this something you'd want to do?

And she's like, at any point, if this is, like, not fun for you, like, we're going to go home. We won't do it. Yeah. Yeah. And so then it eventually, she got an Asian in Georgia. And then my mom and my sister, they went themselves to. to L.A. because my aunt, who was a sideline reporter for the NFL at the time. Wow. Good Lord.

Yeah. She was living in L.A. and so my mom and my sister slept on her couch and, you know, did pilot season. And I think she got Allie McBeal. She played the young Allie McBeal. Oh. Wow. Yeah. And got commercials, you know. And then. So where does L come in? No, no, I love it. Well, this time I'm just like, I'm so young, but I'm watching. It's just, becoming a part of my life from that age of seeing my sister, oh, going on these auditions, and then, oh, then she gets to dress up and gets to go to other places. And it's like, I want to do that. It really was a copycat. Like, I call myself like a Nepo sister in a way because I completely

just copied her because I would visit her on sets all the time, which also, Cat in the Hat, Sean. You were in Cat in the Hat? With Dakota, yeah. Did you come by? Did I meet you? Probably met you as a child. I was on set all the time. Oh, my gosh. How many times a day do you say, how many times a day do you say, did I meet you? Just guess, ballpark. We'll be right back. And now, back to the show. So, but what about school for the both of you guys?

Like, did you have a very normal childhood? Like, looking back now. Kind of, right? Yes, we really did. Sorry, that one was for L, Will. No, no. Will, how did you have a normal childhood? I'm sorry.

Yeah. Willie? Yeah. Oh my gosh. No, but you did? So you went to public schools and stuff like that? Yeah, my sister went to, she was homeschooled. Okay.

For a long time until ninth grade in high school. And so then that meant like the age-wise, I was homeschooled by my grandmother until fourth grade. And so at that, at those two ages, we just kind of felt like we wanted, you know, I think our mom wanted. us to have that experience. You know, it's very much an experience that our mom had. Like, she just never had a, she is shy, she's not, like, no one is in the business. Like, this is just not, this is not how she saw her life going. And then it was like, Dakota just kind of kept getting jobs.

And then we're like, she always thought, oh, we're going to move back to Georgia. And then they never did. Because she kept getting things and, like, moved to L.A. Right. And so my mom was really, you know, figuring out, she was going along as well. It's interesting because my sister, her birthday is today. Oh, happy birthday, Dakota.

Yeah, but she's 32. But it's interesting because we're like, mom was 32 when she was on set with I Am Sam, like navigating this, you know, when Sean Pins like method, you know, talking to Dakota and just they're having to navigate that together. It's just so interesting. They're kind of sweet to think about our young mom dealing with that. Yeah, that's really cool.

Yeah. But, yes, schools, it's, yes, we were homeschooled. And then it was like, I think, you know, I was like, I don't really have any friends my own age. And I want to have that experience. And so, mom's like, yeah, certainly, you know, wanted proms and the parties and the whole thing. And so we went to the same school and it was a private school here in L.A. Yeah. That's great.

Yeah. And then did, again, I'm just, I find myself, I'm just projecting here, just thinking about all of my, you know. Oh, take us away on this jury. Yeah. So for me, but did you guys think about college? I didn't know there were tickets left on the journey. You guys, do you guys just kind of blew right by college, kind of like I did thinking like, oh, I'm good. I've got my career started.

I don't need it. And it's stressful, right? I certainly did. I was not sure. I was so done with school. I knew from pretty quick, I'm not going to college. Dakota did. Dakota went to NYU.

Okay, good. She's much more student. than I and has much more like the attention span and she's got a backup career in her back pocket I know we say she should be she we always tell her like she should be should have been a lawyer I mean not should have but right she still can be yeah she still can be yeah that's why wait I want to just say one sidebar about homeschool because I I I don't know anything about it it just imagine oh well definitely go off on it then yeah let's have your hot take I I I always imagine when somebody says they're homeschooled,

like, how, like, who's checking to see if you're done your home? Like, how does it, you know, like, you just wake up, you're like, man, you can't say I don't feel like going to class because your class is in your house. You know, like, I would cut class all the time. Sure you would. You'd be late a lot.

Yeah, I'd be late or whatever. I'd be late almost every day to school. But yeah, but there's no, like, anyway, we don't have to go into it. It was, no, it was like a curriculum that was, a full curriculum and they would send you all of the books. And then your quote teacher is your grandmother. Yes. And then I also had a studio teacher that was the same studio teacher with me. Even when I was in my regular school and would leave and go back and forth.

And we had to keep up with the assignments. Got it was also, I mean, it was interesting because I felt like I learned a lot more. Like the certain curriculum, they taught us cursive first. instead of, and which is kind of reversed. When I went into school, like, a lot of my, they didn't know cursive us and they thought it was kind of weird. Like, why are you doing cursive? I'm like, oh, that's what I was taught first before.

And so it was kind of like an advanced. Right. I know what you mean about the college thing, though, because it's like I completely advocate for everybody going to college just for the experience of it, right? Yeah. But I understand when people, like, want to pursue acting or something. because if you have a degree in act and being an act like theater or an actor,

it doesn't help you get a job like either you're right for a part or you're not right for a part. But I mean, I still. As a doctor, you need to have that diploma and the credentials and all that stuff before you can. Right. Yeah. I still advocate for people going to study because I... We heard the first cover. Yeah, we're really covered on that point in case you're worried about taking fire. By the way, and by the way, just a little plug.

I have a scholarship set up at Illinois State University for theater kids. I do, I... Well, there's a long way to get to that. I'll tell you what. That's a plug. It's important. No, I had... My thing was, I dropped out after one semester

because I was like, I want to get out into the world and I want to get doing the thing I want to do. That was it for me. Let's do this, you were saying. Yeah. Yeah, let's do it. Let's get on to this. That's how I felt.

I mean, yeah, it was, yeah. So, Al, what was the first gig where you were actually front and center and not a stand-in for your sister, that you were up, you're at your front and center, and you were like, wait a minute, this is really cool, and I really get it. Yes, there was, gosh, I'm trying to remember the very first. I mean, I definitely, I mean, I did, you know,

I had a lot of commercials. I did the, you know, law and order stint. You know, I burned down a house as like a crazy, you know, demon child. And, you know, I had the right of passage there. What was your style of burning? Was it like lighter fluid? How did you burn down the house?

Do you remember what your character did? I don't remember. Asking for it. A bunch of old newspapers. Yeah, I don't remember exactly. Because there's a bunch of different ways to do it. It might have just been, I don't know if they showed me doing it. It was more like, you know, fire starter.

Like I was just like this girl in front of the burning building. Didn't come out of your eyes or anything like that? No, no. But criminal minds, they really loved me. They brought, I was kidnapped twice, the same character. I was brought back. To get kidnapped again. Get kidnapped again?

Yes. The best kicking and screaming we've ever seen. Not since Liam Neeson, yeah. Yeah, so that was a big thing. Sean, after being kidnapped, how quickly would they let you go, do you think? If they talk. Oopsie.

Like on the ride to the hideout? Well, you know, as Oprah says, never let them take you to the second location. But, yeah, the first movie, Sean asked something. You're about to stay the first job on your own. Like when the fire started, Like when that flame first started Like, oh, wait, this is exciting

Was it like all of those little episodic things? You're like, wait a minute, this is really, really thrilling. Yeah, I remember there was a movie I did called Phoebe in Wonderland. And I was nine, it was with Felicity Huffman and Patricia Clarkson and Bill Pullman. They're all great. Yeah, and I played Phoebe.

So, like, my name was in the title and it was about a young girl who had Tourette's syndrome. And I realized it was the first time that I, you know, had to learn about something and portray something in like a sensitive way. I mean, yes, I was young, but I realized, oh, there's another layer to acting, obviously, of like, I have to transform into this person and kind of, it's a very specific experience that I don't know, that I have to learn about. And I talk to kids that had it.

And so that was very unique. And just to be, for the first time, like, the, person who was like number one on the call sheet like I was feeding yeah and and go deep like that yeah that's really cool I remember watching what's eating Gilbert grape and I'd never even heard of Leonardo DiCaprio never saw it so good and when Leonardo DiCaprio came on as that character I was like oh my gosh how do they cast that kid like yeah he was stunning that kid and you're like oh he did what that was a part like that blew my mind as I'm sure he was so good what what well else so that that happened what was the first film when you were kind of on

on your own. Like you really felt like you were an adult and really had agency over you. I mean, you always had agency over the rules and stuff you wanted to do. But that time when you were... Or mostly you're just auditioning and you're trying to get the best thing

and it just so happens that, oh, you know, you got the part. So you can't really pick when you're... But what was the first thing that you, like, chose, that you picked, that you felt like this is, all right, I want to do it, I'm an adult, this is the kind of stuff I want to do. Do you remember, was there a certain thing that you... Gosh, I know, it's so funny because

there's also so many different chapters that I can pinpoint of like remembering like I felt like somewhere was a film that I did that I auditioned for that that I was 11 but that was the first time that people started somewhere and Super 8 it was Sophia's film yes with Steven Dorff and we filmed the Chateau

and Super 8 that was with JJ Abrams they were kind of close I was 12 in that but those were the first times I started getting recognized not as Dakota fanning because constantly I would just always get recognized nice as Dakota. I'm sure, yeah. And so that was like a, there was like a kind of stepping stone there and like another chapter. What is coming to mind with like a role that I chose that really felt like I, I fought for it was the neon demon, this film I did with Nicholas Winding Refen,

who directed Drive. Right. Oh, yeah. And Drive had just come out and it was this, I mean, it was a crazy script. Yeah, and that film was incredibly ambitious too. Yeah, I remember the excitement around him right after Drive, too. Yeah, that was awesome. And the script was, you know, I was 17 when I filmed it. And it was, I guess, quote unquote, I mean, I was playing a 17-year-old girl, but it was kind of the horror, it was intense, like it was, like, again,

kind of polarizing with the themes. kind of like the substance in a way, like pre the substance. It was about, you know, beauty in the modeling industry and, um, and it was kind of extreme, but I, I was like, I want to do this. Like I saw something in it and I, and obviously, I mean, Nick was from Drive. I mean, he was a big, you know, director that people wanted to work with. And so it was a part that a lot of people wanted, but it was something that I really like pushed for and, and wanted to go there. And I think, people in the industry, I don't know, I think it went to Cannes and it, you know, got booze and then got applause and it was like very polarizing. But I enjoyed that, that it was not,

you know, straight down the middle and it was my first time kind of doing something like that. Yeah. What, where, do you see so, so, so the job obviously of being an actor is playing different people. And can I, this is going to be a weird question. Oh, boy. But like, did you find, as a kid, when you're just learning who you are and becoming who you are, did you find it confusing to be asking yourself to be all these different people at a time when you're trying to figure out who you are? I mean, I just, I thought that was confusing for me.

You know, like, we didn't become schizophrenics, but like you're really trying to be a convincing version of something that you're not at a time when you're trying to figure out who you are. So how was that for you? that is really good it's something I haven't completely thought about Get it out now

This is the place to get it out This is the moment right here I think that I think it can be helpful Maybe right It's just something that I hadn't thought about I think yeah I think there was

For me Acting in the experience I just felt like it was so enriching Like there's nothing Like for me It's added so much To my life And like expanded my life

life of getting to also know how to handle yourself like around adults and and and and be in those social situations and and and go to other countries and experience like it was just kind of it opened my world in a way that it seemed I was like oh this is normal but it's obviously not the normal and then playing characters I mean I'm a real big I live in my head a lot and I'm a big daydreamer and kind of like my imagination more than reality anyway. So I felt like I found a place that I could expose all of those inner thoughts. Yeah, an experiment.

And almost put on different types of clothes and different personalities. And I did that not so much in my real life, but I got to act that out through the characters I played when I was younger. So it wasn't confusing. It was more like cathartic, I guess, to have it. outlet like that. Can you point to any character that you feel that you adopted still to this day that's become a kind of a good part of your personality?

Jason, another great follow-up. I know. Guys, I've done a lot of work. A lot of work on this interview. That's a really good question. It wasn't someone that I played when I was younger, younger, but I was in the show The Great where I played Catherine the Great. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yes, we did it for three seasons. Nicholas Holt. Yes, he played Peter the third, and we were married a couple, and Tony McNamara, who wrote the favorite, wrote it. So it was very, you know, we had an asterisk that said, like, this is not historically accurate, like, before the show happened in, like, a tongue-in-cheek way,

and it was raunchy and definitely not about history. Yeah, it's really stylized. It was awesome. Yeah, it was kind of in that, in that favorite, like, tone, the rhythm. It was very written, very, we had to be punctuation-perfect, word perfect and, you know, it was a real, you know, you had to hit the joke. Yeah, it was a real challenge. But I felt like Tony was watching me kind of come to my own as a woman.

Because I started the first season, I was 19, 20, and then we finished when I was 25. Wow. So 100% my personality was informing what Tony was writing throughout the seasons. Catherine was, I was absorbing her. And to this day, I feel like she's the most like me, which could be better. I mean, there's a lot of negative things to her as well. But she was a very messy character and complicated.

And I think also people sometimes want to put you in a box of, I mean, especially me, like, ooh, you laugh all the time and you know, and you're naive. And, you know, that is something, you know, I did maleficia. I played Sleeping Beauty. So I was a Disney princess. And so to be able to do this show where I technically was playing an empress, a queen that came into the ruling and had a coup on her husband

when she was super young, but she was super underestimated, but had this really calculating side to her. You got to show all the stuff that's under. Yeah, she would use her naivete. And I feel like, ooh, I kind of, I think I do that. And so she was like me. Good. Yeah, yeah, because you're a good,

actor and also like God forbid that when people are like oh you laugh and positive all the time like that's a bad thing I had a little bit of that experience Shawnee with you watch oh I thought you were to say because I feel a lot of that because like well I'm super hairy on the outside I'm pretty naked and bald on the inside of that

I feel a lot of that sort of like a real teen wolf energy no but Shawnee I I was thinking that it's a whole thing seeing Shawnee you know you do that the one-man show a couple weeks ago. Like, there's so much sort of, like, you know, deepness and darkness and at times during that show. And you just do it so effortlessly. I'm like, yeah, there's the guy underneath all the warmth

and the generosity that you socially, you know, put forward to people to put them at ease. There's like this incredibly deep, serious person. Ferocious. Yeah, dark. Yeah. And the only part I didn't buy is that you would walk. that you would walk over to the river

because I know you'd take a cab or you'd take a Uber there's no way you'd walk. That took me out. That took me out. I don't think that you can't have like, even in like scripts or I always like look for this. Like you can't have like incredible joy

without like deep sorrow. Like it doesn't work. Yeah. And it's also like any four of us right now talking. It's like we have tons and tons of different sides of us that people have seen and people haven't seen. And so for people to think that you don't have that You know, is just by default a Hollywood thing, you know,

that's like, no, you could never do that because... Yeah, you get typecast for sure. Yeah. I know all about it. Yeah. By the way, so we didn't, I didn't mention in the opener, L, this, your new show that's going to premiere A24 for Apple, Margot's Got Money. Troubles.

That's got money troubles. Margo's got money troubles. Margo's got money troubles. Oh, wait a minute. Oh, wait a minute. No, she's got money troubles. Wait a minute. I was pausing.

I was taking a pause. Was this a documentary on Margot Robbie? Because we just heard her on. She didn't mention having any issues of cash. I don't think she has any money troubles. Wait, Al, was this a book? It was a book. I think I read that book.

Not sure. Yes, and it was not sure. Yeah, Ruby Thorpe. That was the one. That was the one I read. It had to be, yeah, the title's very specific. Yeah. Oh, that's so cool.

Yeah, she's a young mom and she doesn't have the cash, and so she joins OnlyFans. Yes, I think yes. Oh, my God. This is so cool. Yes, and it's super, it's cool on a lot of... I mean, first of all, it's got an amazing cast. Yeah. And you and your sister produce it as well, right?

You and your sister have a production company together, is that true? Called Llewellyn Pictures. Oh, that's fun. That's fun. After our late dog. Aw. We'll be right back. Back to the show.

I have a dumb, dumb question. Have you guys, other than the stuff when you were kids, have you done anything as a adults together in a film? No, and it's about to happen in a month. No way, no way. What is it? Yes, we have never read a line together, never. We visited each other on set, but we do not, we have never done that, never been on

camera together other than, you know, me playing her young, but we're obviously not together. And so, yeah, we're doing The Nightingale, which is a best-selling book by Kristen Hanna, and we're playing sisters in that. It's a sister story in World War II. Wow. Wow, that's so cool. That'll be huge, that'll be huge. I know, and we're excited and nervous.

Will knows a lot about World War II. What portion of the war are we covering in what country? It's the French resistance. Oh, sure. Oh, sure. One cigarette. It's the best I take a cigarette. I go and I kill some Nazis.

I leave a bag with explosives next to that time. We're still casting. We're still casting. So if you want to give us an audition, you can. I'd love to send in the tape. How, that's excellent. That's so great. I'm so happy that you guys are doing that.

That's so cool. You must be, are you nervous? Are you excited? Are you all of the above? We are, I think we're all of the above. I think it's also stepping into the unknown a little bit. And people who have worked with both of us say that we work in a very different way. That we're extremely different on set.

Oh, cool. Yeah. It's not a bad thing, but just that our energy is very different. Do you guys talk every single day? Every day. We are unbelievably close, yeah. Really? We hang out, we live close to each other.

I love that. I love that. But wait, we scooted right past your new show. I know. So tell us about... Troubles. Troubles. There's no ellipses there.

It just goes right through. So it's you and the wonderful Michelle Pfeiffer, whom we adore. We adore Michelle. That Will just worked with. I love her. I love Michelle. She's amazing. Yeah, she's the best.

And her husband, David, right? Yes, David is the, he wrote the show. Oh, cool. I mean, they've never worked together before. They've never. Wow. This is the first time. Wow.

In this show. Yes. Whoa. A lot of people working together who've never worked together. So it's, yeah, so it's, it's you and Michelle and. Nick Offerman. Nick Offerman. The great Nick Offerman.

Wonderful. Yeah. Great Nick Conier. Yes. Greg Kinnear. The great, Greg Kinnear. The great, Greg Kinnear. some the other day. Someone, you know, an unknown

Nicole Kidman. Nicole Kidman. We're rooting for her. No, yeah, Nicole Kidman. Let me just keep your eye on her. Jesus. Jesus. Holy shit. That's so great. You must be so excited about the show. Everybody's talking about how great it is. Oh, that's so nice. No, I really am. It was also kind of one that, I mean, I was a producer on the

grade as well and I. Oh, you were? I was. I was. So that was kind of the first time I actually got to see behind the scenes of like, you know, pitching a show for the first time. That was the first time I did it on that. But this, Margo truly feels like from the ground up because it was, I read the book before it was published. And so I had to talk to Ruffy,

who wrote the book. And she had to get, you know, it was a real process. And then we assembled this, like, dynamic team with 824 and David and all, and the cast. And then we went out. and really pitched it hard. And so it just feels like it's definitely this collaboration, but something that I'm, I don't know,

I'm very involved in, and I love this character. Well, yeah, I thought you're going to say, I'm sure you're very proud of it, that process of being there right from the get-go and sort of shepherding it all the way through. Do you feel responsibility? I don't mean that in a negative way, but do you feel like this, like, real care for it in that way?

Yeah, I think you do feel, this care and you feel a little bit of pressure because you, it's kind of like exposing your heart and you hope that that's with everything. I mean, and you hope that people, you hope that people like it, obviously. I mean, a show also takes so much time to film too. Yeah, yeah.

Do you like that longer involvement, the fact that you're involved with it during pitching and developing and pre-production and post-production aside from just the filming part of it? Or having gone through that a couple of times now, you're like, yeah, maybe I'll just do like a couple of acting gigs in between just sort of hit and run, get in, get out. Do you do or would you like to

do you like staying with a project from start to finish and doing the whole thing? I kind of got a taste for it now. I feel like I like the power. I think there's something in also being. That's hilarious. Yeah. Being like a child actor,

I think you also spend a lot of time. not that, I mean, we're not harping on this, but it is like my origin story, but, you know, being an observer, like you're cast as the observer who watches the adults do the fun things. And you're also on set. I think I've gotten to a place now

where I feel very, like, in myself, where I think it also comes from, okay, like, respect your elders and you don't want to be like, I know too much, I know more than you, but there does come a point, and I think now that I can say, well, no, maybe I do, because I've been on set since I was two.

So I've seen a lot. Yeah, you've got all this experience. You know what you're talking about. Like, you know, how to a crisis or how to problem solve and what, like, I've seen, and I really learned on the job. Like, I didn't go to acting school or anything. So I was learning from these directors, and they all worked in this vastly different way.

So I became very malleable. you had to be, you know, and so I get to put that into the producing process now, and I like that. In an unapologetic way, you have a seat at the table, legitimacy of the table. So when you chime in, you don't have to say, oh, sorry, excuse me, I've got an idea. I definitely used to do that, you know. And I don't so much have to anymore. I really like the post-production.

I love editing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, then my next favorite question always is, do you see directing in your future as well, since you've got so much set experience. I know. It's such a cliche.

Everyone's like, oh, yeah, I want to be a director. Yeah, but I think everybody wants to, I mean, but in any occupation, you want that promotion. You want to be able to use what you've been learning, and that usually lives in the job that's just above you. You're constantly learning more about the process. And so with directing, it allows you to use everything you've been obviously taking a look at and absorbing and observing. Yeah, I've dreamed about that for a long time, even since I was young.

And I would write a lot. I don't so much do it as much anymore. But it was, you know, my favorite always in school and coming up with stories and things. And so I know that that's in my future, but I don't think it's in my near future. It's there. Yeah. Well, speaking about your near future, what are you doing when you're not? I mean, you're constantly working.

Yeah. Yeah, this year's been, this year and last year was really insane. But I always knew that I'm such a freak. I love the number five. And so I do too. That's my favorite number. It's my favorite number. Yeah.

And we, I just felt like 2025 was always, I planned. Like, I did certain things when I was 15, like because the number five. Like, I planned a lot of stuff. Why five? Why five? I feel like it's an even number, although it's an odd. Because it's in the middle of all the numbers. Like one to ten.

Is that a very small? I like that. Yeah. I like that. I like the number five too for what it's worth. I love it. What do you like, Sean? What do you like?

I like three. I like three. Yeah, I kind of like three too. That's a cousin. Yeah. So then, yeah, what Sean was. I don't know if I even answered like, what the heck did I just say. You asked me a question.

I'm like, yes. I really like the number five. Weirdo. What he was saying like. And my sister. and her friend, Chloe, they are going to listen to this. That's why I'm like, my butt cheeks are like clenched. I'm like, because they love this show so much.

Wow, we love you guys. And I talked to Dakota right before. She's like, you're about to do smart listen. But she actually, I was like, I'm nervous. She's like, no, it's just a conversation. Yeah, we're just hanging out. We're all just hanging out. Well, hello to them both.

Yeah. But what Sean was saying, like, about the future, like, you're working so much. What do you, do you, have you carved out some, like, non-work time in your future? You know, I guess I got to get better at doing that, but also I'm not, I don't think I'm too, I'm just so, I don't, I want to do it all in this moment. What do you and Gus like to do? What's your favorite thing to do? What's your favorite for Tracy?

That's your boyfriend. Yes, that's my boyfriend for Tracy. We love going on trips. He has actually been a really nice, gosh, he is such, well, we're very similar in a lot of ways because he's also extremely extroverted, but he's extremely grounded and is able to to really ground me and also he kind of carves out the time for me and I'm like I don't even realize it but like okay let's we're going to do this weekend away or we're going to drive to Santa Barbara we're going to set up this trip and and it's just not I'm not great at organizing

I don't and I'm good at organizing in my like with scheduling with work like that I'm very on it and that's kind of all I think about and so then he kind of turns me away to also think about those other things. It's a really, it's a spectacular comment. We call them anchors. Scottie's my anchor. Everybody needs an anchor. Yeah, we really are a good.

I mean, fucking no comment. Yeah. I mean, he's talking about. It's good. Scott is my anchor. Everybody needs an anchor. I'm trying. I'm trying to do that.

But also we're extremely ambitious like both of us. And so I think it's also, I'm like, yeah, you go do your thing and I go do mine. It's like, you don't got it. You don't have to come follow me to set. Like, come and visit, but also, you know, you don't, I don't need you just, like, sitting in the trailer. It's like, I know that's boring, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He doesn't want to do that. So we're, you know, we're. He's a nice, I've met your Gus a few times over the years. He's a real nice, really nice guy. Yeah. Well, that's great. So what do you do, like, on a day like today?

Right. In midst all this stuff, you're doing, you're, I mean, right now, you're constantly doing press and screenings and meet and greets and getting ready. to work and prepping and blah, blah, blah, what do you do today? What do you do today if you have the afternoon? Like, what are you going to do? What makes you happy to carve out for you?

Gosh, well, you say it ebbs and flows. Like, I get into modes of, like, okay, now I'm like, I love working out or I love doing this. So I'm going to go to Pilates and do this. And then it's like all or nothing for me. So I'm not in that phase right now at all. What about like arts and crafts stuff? I have a cooking thing.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yes, I love painting and drawing and like that is in me. Yeah. But it's not, I got to do it more. Like I think about it. I'm like, you know what? If I had like a painting room or something, I would be so happy. Absolutely.

But it also feels too hard. Yes, absolutely. I'm like, you know, my dream is, Elle, my dream is to have somebody come. By the way, I did this once. I had somebody come over. This is years and years and years ago with some friends. We got totally stone. We all smoked pot.

And then some woman came over with seven sewing machines and we all made pillows. Right. Like stoned out of our mind and we just made pillows. And like that's what we need to do, right? We need to have somebody come over to teach us like, hey, I want to paint. Can you just set some stuff up for me and I'll paint?

And then we're done. And then we did it. See, if someone else sets it up for me, I sound like if it's set up for me, it's like, okay, you've got to go to this class, then I will do it because I feel also, I'm like, oh no, I don't want to stand up that teacher. That's right.

You know, so I'm like, there's an obligation. But if it's just me alone, then I sit on my computer and I watch traitors. Same. There you go. Seen every episode of every iteration. I'm watching so, well, obviously we're watching the one now. There's a British or domestic one. Right?

There's a lot. There's a New Zealand or Australian or whatever. Yeah. Was the English one the first one? Yeah, the English one was the first one. This is like a survivor type of thing, right? Yeah. Yeah, it's like mafia.

Yeah. Remember we used to play that, Jay? Sure, yeah, you're a great leader. Yeah, I was wondering if any of you all watch it. I mean, I want Rob to win. I want Rob to win too because he's so clever. I know, and I always want the traders to win. Yeah, always, yeah.

I'm always like that. I also just started the Celebrity UK, which I know is I'm a little late too. I'm loving it. But do you know who won that? No. Okay, I won't. Do you have a guess? Do you have a guess?

See, I feel like everyone is on to them really quickly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. can't see that. I mean, Cat, I like Cat, a lot. Yeah, Cat's great. So she possibly, I feel like, and Alan, I love, I love Jonathan, I love them, but I just don't, they're all seem to be on them unless they get particular people out. I think Cat and Alan could go. It's a very satisfying ending. Oh, good. Okay, good. Yeah, my mom watches it too, and she was like, you're going to love this. She was like, it's a great thing, yeah. But I love reality TV. So I just spend, I'm like, okay, I sit. I also have TVs in my home. I don't turn them on. I only watch on my computer.

Huh. So they're just decoration or? Yeah. I literally, I don't, they don't need to be here. It's so weird. And I have a giant computer that is heavy and old and I just can't get rid of it. But the screen is so big. I'm on it right now. And like the tech check this morning, I was like, guys, I don't know any of these wires you sent. Very rarely is a guest on time. It's a good on time. It all worked out. While we're paused here, Will, did you want to double back on Sean's pillow party at all? I did. The visual alone.

Your. Yeah, seven sewing machines and a bomb. You, a bunch of stoned middle-aged entertainment types in a beautiful Hollywood mansion. It's everything I ever always thought. It was so fun. You guys, we should do it. I'm not even kidding. It's really fun.

Make sure to, yeah, I'm good, I'm sure, the wealth of never. That's the issue. Come on, Walmick pillows. We'll do it. We'll do it. Elle, listen, you are such a delight. Honestly. Just a delight, Elle.

You are amazing. So happy to have you. I mean, you're just, you're such an impressive actor, and you've done so many amazing things. So happy for your new show. Margo's got money troubles. Yes, I'll say. Money. Come on.

Trouble. Troubles. Money. Pause, troubles. Pause, troubles. Listen, we're just, it's just such a great, you just bring such positivity and you're amazing and we're just such fans. I could talk to you all day long. All day. Thank you, God, I feel the same. I feel the same. And my favorite part, I just got to say this,

because the best part on the dock is when you're worried that ordering the surf and turf is too extravagant is unbelievable. Well, but I didn't. And Jason going, oh, did we go long on that? I mean, that's the best. So when I'm in, when I need a pick me up, like, I turn. I watch that on TikTok, like, and I think a lot of people do. I think it is a thing, but it's freaking clear. Little bites. Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you, my dear.

All right, thanks for doing this. We love you, Al. Thank you, Al. Thank you. Thank you. Bye, guys. This was so fun. Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye. Thank you for having me on. You got it. Thanks. Pillow party. Oh, Sean.

Yeah. I mean, why was that? Hey, guys, what should we do tonight? You know, we got all this big bag of weed and what do you think? Should we just go crazy and call that gal with the sewing machines? Yeah. Yeah. That sounds sweet, bro.

Do you remember her number? Uh-huh. Yeah. And what should we do with the sewing machine? Let's make pillows. Yeah, we all made pillows. This is why I never. Hey, you know, it would be really cool.

We should go and. I'm Pitt. This is on the night, right? Yeah, yeah. You know what we should do? We should go pitch celebrity sweatshop, right? We all make pillows. So that was a real delight. I mean, what a wonderful human being.

I'm so impressed. She is a wonderful human being. She's got great energy. She's always. She's always just positive and cool. She was exactly as I'd always hoped she would be. Yeah, and then just does all this incredible work, constantly doing different stuff.

I mean, it's just amazing. She's got one of the new, she's in one of the new, what are those, you know the thing that I'm talking about. Oh, here he comes. No, no, I'm not. It's a hunger game. She's in the new Hunger Games as well. Oh, she is?

Yeah. She's on fire. She's amazing. Oh, she's totally on fire. And I can't wait to see you. Markos got money troubles. I know that book was really good. I love that you forgot.

Oh, I think I read that book. I know. What do you read a book in an hour or something like that? No, I read like three or four in my life. That was one of them. And so even though you forgot the one of the three. I know. It takes me a month and a half to read a book.

I'm not going to forget if I read a book. It takes me a while. Will, how long does it take you to read like an adult book? Well, I've been reading a lot later. Like the last two. weeks, I'm on my fourth book in the last two weeks. Wow. Yeah.

When do you, when are you doing this? At night, sometimes during the day, if I have timed down on the day for an hour or whatever, so how many pages will you read before you knock off? 60 pages? Depends on how tired I'm, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but like that's a average. Sometimes you get in 10, 15 pages and you're just, eyes are happy. Right, right.

But usually it's about a half hour reading and then you're sleeping? Mm-hmm. Uh-huh. Yeah, and I do a lot of reading during the day, too, on my, like, sometimes. Sometimes in the morning I'll wake up if I'm up early. And you enjoy it. You just enjoy reading. I like reading about things I like to read about.

I get excited to. But if you sent me a book about like, I don't know. Like motorcycle driving. Sure. I don't know. What would that be called? Motorcycle would be more, but you know what it would be a good to read about would be what?

Bicycle. Bicycle riding. That was cheap. That was good. That was good. Bye. Bye. Bye.

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