SmartLess - "Henry Winkler"

Episode Date: July 8, 2024

It’s the great Henry Winkler! A leaf-blower, chocolate jewelry, the Limbo for self-esteem, the FBI, and being a complete human being. Please don’t discontinue the white cheddar; it’s an all-new SmartLess.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Jason, I know we got to do the show, but do you have something else that you need to do? I just did not get up early enough to take care of everything one usually takes care of in the morning. Like taking out the trash or whatever? Well, some people call it that. Like opening some windows? All right, so we'll pause. Why don't you take care of that and then we'll just play the music and stuff and then we'll

be at All New SmartList. No, let's just make this a fast episode. No, let's just go to all new Smartless. Smart. Less. Smart. Less. Smart.

Less. Smart. Less. Smart. Less. Smart. Less. Smart.

Less. Smart. Less. Smart. Less. Smart. Less. Smart.

Will, did you just finish a workout? You got a little bit of sweat going there on the front of the shirt. I did. I didn't even have, I haven't showered. I just put on a clean shirt. I haven't showered yet. Luckily I'm in my booth, but I know it's gross. What's the flavor of workout currently?

Are you still doing the nonsense with the platinum white leather punching bag? No, I'm not boxing or anything. It's really, by the way, a great workout with my friends over at Fight Camp. But no, I'm now in, I'm now boxing or anybody's really that by the way a great workout with my friends over at fight camp But no, I'm I'm now in I'm now doing the catalyst. I'm in the the catalyst suit Electra electric pulses. Yeah. Oh, I get it Oh, this is the big lazy loser workout where you just put zip on a suit that electro shocks you and you don't need to do shit You can just sleep there. I'm doing a workout while I do it and it's a great product.

Jason, he looks like, when he wears it, he looks like Beyonce from the Single Ladies video. Okay, well thanks for the reference from 2008. We really appreciate it. Listen. And I'd appreciate if you stop, don't stop talking to me like I can recall Beyonce videos at the drop of a hat,

because I can't. Yeah, but by the way, her album just came out. It's really good. Okay, yeah, it is the country one. Is it good? You've heard it? It's really good, yeah, it's really, really good. Is it real twangy country, like real?

No, it's just her version of it, yeah? She's got a lot of collaborations on it. You know who did a great country album is Beck. You remember Beck's country album? Oh yeah. It was very good. Yeah, yeah. Well, we'll just send that to the notes.

Hang on, hang on. 1990s calling. What are we? Sorry. By the way, Sean, doesn't JB look like he could put out a country record right now? Absolutely. Yeah.

No, and then you just tilt down and you see that. Oh, look at the pixies. It's like he's got the pixies on. Name one pixie song. The Night We Went Out. There we go. I mean, this is great. He's got the pixies on. Name one pixie song. The Night We Went Out. There we go. I mean this is great. Is that a real song?

Is that a real song? It's just a great t-shirt. Let's get to our guests. Another guest that I have, listen, this damn project I'm working on here on the East Coast is really cutting into my prep time for my guests. And so I have not yet been able to write an intro

for my guests since this project has been in existence. However, yeah, well, it just puts me on par with you guys. How many, it's always somebody else or something else's fault. When's it your fault? Never, okay, never. So I'm not just gonna just say his name. I will say,

I am happy to have this gentleman here. This is like the worst intro ever. I love him, he is a dear friend of mine, and yours, Will. Sean, I think you may know him, I'm not sure. But listen, this is the kind of guy that has got so much kindness and warmth in him that you actually, if you're a cynic like me,

you doubt his sincerity. But if you know him as well as I do, you know it's sincere. Kang, this is somebody who is absolute royalty in our business. He is one of my favorite people in the world. He's one of our best actors, one of our best comics, an incredible author.

You can't say enough. Just come on out. Everybody, it's Henry Winkler. Ah, I love Henry Winkler. Are you, I mean, what can you say? Are you joking? I can bow for the sincerest sincerity thing. How do you?

You're like dubbed the nicest person in show business. Exactly. Yeah, but you know what? I don't necessarily think I am the nicest. I think I'm just grateful. Yeah, oh, grateful. I love that. I'm just grateful.

And I sometimes I'm so filled with just being on the earth. Yeah. No, you can feel it. You know what, I believe you, Henry. I do, I believe you. I've spent some time, I really believe you. It's so good to see you. Thank you, I'm so happy to finally be on the show.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now look at the desk behind you, my God, that's a pile of work you got going on in your desk. That's one of the greatest offices you'll ever step into. The wall that he's facing right now is stock-filled with stuff you could spend an hour looking at, all these memories, all these tchotchkes and memorabilia and, right?

It's true, it's true, but remember, I've been doing this a long time. Yeah. You know, what I didn't know is that this was only a voice podcast that we weren't recording it video. I could have been in my pajamas. Yeah, like us.

Yeah, like us. Or in a sweaty, sweaty t-shirt like me. Yeah. And you could have taken your hair off even, Henry. Not a lot of people know that Henry has been bald since 14. Um. 14 years old. Yeah, unfortunately, yeah.

But, uh. I used to do the limbo at high school dances, you know? It was the only way I got some self-esteem and the wig slid right off. No way. Oh, it was horrible. Because of your skills. Imagine thinking, imagine thinking, I got low self-esteem,

how am I gonna build it up? You know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna answer the limbo. Limbo the shit out of this party. I was the best in my high school. Is that true? I'll bet. Yeah. You know why I believe that, Henry,

is because I'm now, what just came to mind was that episode of Happy Days, where you do, where the Fonz does that dance The kuzatski. Yeah, will you get low? Yeah so My parents took me to see the musae of folk ballet at Madison Square Garden when I was in the sixth grade And this is that athletic jumping in the air,

spread eagle doing the ba ba ba ba. And I was overwhelmed and taught myself a bastardized version in my room that I would do at any dance I attended. Really? And that was your closer, right? That was my closer. So how did it come about that you're making happy days

and did they say, Fonz needs to have it? And you're like, hang on a second, I got this. I got this in my back pocket. Do you know, interestingly enough, I would ask, there were so many episodes, I was asked to do all kinds of stuff. And they came up with this, how do you win the dance contest?

And I said, well, I can do this. And they played Havana-Gila and I was off and running. Right? Right? Right? Is that? Was it, was it, was it, we're gonna pop around all over the place, but while we're there,

I mean, was it, the Fonz was not meant to be the star of the show, correct? No, I had six lines. When I auditioned, I had six lines, and then I worked one day a week for the first year. And being anxious and short, I could not leave my apartment on a weekday, so I just sat in my apartment waiting for the day of work

and then waiting for the weekend when I could finally leave. Wow, what do you mean you were afraid to leave your apartment because you're anxious and short? No, I wasn't afraid. I couldn't leave my apartment because I was so duty bound, I couldn't play on a work day. Oh, gotcha. So I had all the fan mail delivered to my apartment

and so it was pretty much like a hoarder navigating my way through the boxes of letters in crayon. I'm written directly to your address? Like you just gave out your address? No, no, no, it came to Paramount and Paramount had it delivered. All right, got it, good. And then I would get presents, you know?

Sure, sure. I got a metal cutting that said, if you will it, it is not a dream, which became my watchword, or my phrase for the rest of my life. Your mantra. If you will it, you can have what it is you want. I believe that, 100%.

And that came on a what? Like somebody asked you to? On a metal cutting that was sent to me in the mail by a fan. So it was out of the license plate shop at the prison, right? You know what? It could have been. It's just a spare license plate.

It could have been. And then I had it framed. Sure. So I have, and it's up on my wall in... That's pretty cool. I like the idea that somebody does that, that somebody like, some guy, Jason's joking about he's in prison,

but some dude who's a big fan, he had a few too many pops one night and just etched it into a metal frame as a nothing, and for you it became your mantra. It became my mantra. Put it on metal as a bit of a clutterbuster. He doesn't want to get caught up in all the other fan letters. Well, I got a lot of wood, too.

Sure, I'll bet. Sure. A lot of wood. Jewelry, little girls would send me their bears or their crucifixes. And I'll bet the big girl sent some lingerie. I mean, the font was a bit of a sex symbol. Yes, and then people would come to the apartment and lift their shirt and ask me to sign parts of their anatomy. No way. Oh, I got it. And of course I wouldn't because I was afraid

that the ink would get into their bloodstream. Yeah, good for you. What a nice guy. That would be the first time I would doubt your sincerity, right there. Yeah, you can if you want. Sure, so people can show up now, your house tarps off, no problem.

Yeah. No fear of getting any ink. Oh, oh, oh. I shouldn't have... Well, okay. So I'm sitting in my apartment. I have a Victrola, because everything was vinyl. I went to Tower Records on Sunset Boulevard.

I bought Dan Fogelberg, and I was listening to Dan Fogelberg on my rented Victrola. The door knocks, I get up, there are three men with badges, and I said, oh no, you do not smell what you think you're smelling, oh my God. There was some weird door. And they said, we're with the FBI. We're not here for that.

We just wanted to meet the Fonz. No way. No way. Wow. That's pretty cool. That's so funny. That's a bit of an abuse of their assets, right? I was so happy that I was not being put in handcuffs. I didn't care what they did Yeah, they're all paranoid. Oh, you're so you're right. You're so happy that you're not getting busted for having a big pile of stinky bud

Hey Henry, let me ask you this I remember you telling me years ago the story about when you got that part unhappy I didn't know we're just in the happy days era right now because it it was such a huge part of a, you know, culturally, I don't think people understand how big it was if you're younger, starting the late 70s into the 80s, how massive Happy Days was globally. You got that part, I think you told me once,

but will you remind me of that story of how that came to be? I was not a complete human being in my life. I could not connect my mind and my emotion. I was just being who I thought I should be. Why? I come from, walking into my apartment was like walking into a minefield. My short German parents were horrible.

But I... Oh wait, go back, what? Hey. We'll go back on that. I could somehow unleash myself professionally. So I walk in to the audition, and I changed my voice. I said, hi, my name is Henry, I'm from New York City,

and I'm here to try out for the part of Fonzie, or the Fonzarelli. And then I looked at the guy who was reading with me, his name was Pasquale. And I don't know where it came from, but I was able to just go. I said, hey, don't you look at me like that. Avert your eyes, pal. And then I did six lines through the script in the air air, saunted out of the room, and on my birthday, when it was time for me to go back to New York,

because I only had a month, they called and said, would you like to play this part? Wow. Wow. And now you're in... Right, I remember you saying that. You were going to go back to New York, you were like, I'm done, I'm going back. Well, I thought, I literally thought,

well, I don't have any more money. I'm not getting much. Maybe I'm not supposed to be here. But however, you were a Yale grad at this point, yes, out of Yale drama. Yes. So you were stocked full of credentials and ability. Did you not have confidence

that you were gonna be able to make a career? I got confidence about last Wednesday. That was the first time. I literally, I've said this before, but imagine that I am a bowl of jello before it congeals in the icebox, in the refrigerator. My insides were shaking like I was at the Rumba Room. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Was there ever a moment where you didn't wanna talk about playing the Fonz? Like a section of your life where you're just like, I don't wanna talk about it, and then you embraced it or no? No, no, because I understood in those 10 years, the incredible gift that I was given being introduced to the world,

no matter where we went on the planet, somebody stopped me, invited me to their house for dinner. The Native Americans in the Hopi tribe, you have to lock your camera away because they think you're taking their soul. They invited me to get my camera when we took Jed, who is now 53, but at the time was in the third grade, studying Native Americans.

Yeah. They invited me to get my camera so I could take a picture of the kachina dances. What an honor. Yeah. And that is the microcosm of my life at that time. Did you, and Sean, be honest, are you still thinking about the jello in the fridge?

Yes. Did you, Henry, did you? I'm thinking about the leaf, I'm about to drive over to Henry's house and knock out the leaf blower. I'm gonna get him, I'm gonna get him. Yeah, he's next door, he's next door. So, but Henry, I remember seeing photos or video of you like going on these world tours.

You were in like Japan or something or somewhere. With the Happy Days baseball team. Yeah, was that what it was? Gary Marshall, I miss him every day, was just a brilliant human being. A problem solver, very strict. was just a brilliant human being. A problem solver, very strict. He created Happy Days for the next generation. He created Happy Days and Mork and Mindy and Laverne and Shirley and the odd couple

and on and on and on. And then went on to direct these great movies. Pretty Woman being one of them. Gary Marshall always wanted to own a sports team and I think he bought a part of the Portland Beavers. So we played softball. Then we were invited by the USO and the Happy Days ball team flew to Germany and we played in all these small towns and at that time there was the cold war was still going on and so these men and women were in these small towns at the border of Germany we would play softball with them. I would like to really take this gardener.

Is he in the room? He is like, he's sitting on my lap. Just try using a vacuum cleaner instead. You're so lazy, Henry. You don't need a leaf borer in there. I'm telling you, I don't know. It's the next door neighbor. No, I know, and they're so messy over there.

Yeah, no, well, you know, he, yeah. But anyway, so, and then we played all over Germany. Here's the great thing. I'm walking through an airport and a young woman comes up to me with a stroller and said, I was my daughter's age when you came to Germany and played against my dad's team. Wow. Wow.

What? A team. Wow. What a circle. Yeah. Then we went to Okinawa. That's where Scottie was born. And we played again with the American troops in Japan. Yeah. What year was that? That was, Jed was 13. So I have no idea.

40 years ago. So I have no idea. 40 years ago. So did you guys play just in, only played in access countries, like Japan, Germany, and Italy too? Did you guys play in them? Yes, and then we played in every major ball, ball field in America.

We would play exhibition games before the Mets, before the Giants. Who's on this team? The Dodgers, the Angels. Yeah. Who's on the Happy Days team? Who was there? Ron Howard, a great athlete, believe it or not.

What position was Richie on? He would play center field, shortstop. Okay. Sure. Donnie Most, great athlete. Where was he? Where do we have Ralph now? Donnie was maybe left field.

Sure. Or second base. And you gotta put Potsy in right, right? The guy in right field. No, he was on first base. Ticket to the game. Potsy in right. First base, oh, okay.

You just point and say sit on it, Potsy, and point to first base? Yeah. That is exactly right. And then he went and he was good, he could catch. Okay, yeah. I couldn't catch, so I was the pitcher. They taught me how to pitch, and that is all I could do.

Ron Howard bought me a mitt. Anson bought me a bat, my first in my life. Really? And so I got really good at pitching, but if the ball was hit toward me, I turned my body to the left and stop the ball with my body. I was black and blue for eight years. Yeah. Well, you're pitching too many over the middle of the plate. Sounds like. Well,

I pitch shutouts. What about that was good. Wait a minute. Let's just go by that so quickly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And now, a word from our sponsor. Smart Let's Get Support from Alexa Emergency Assist. Picture this guys, it's the 20 minutes between your kid getting off the bus and when you get home. A fire starts when they decide to make a snack.

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I want to get to you, is it true that when you, what your audition for Yale, when you went into Yale drama school, that you completely blanked on your Shakespearean monologue, you made one up? Is that true? So you improvised in Shakespearean iambic pentameter. No, not in iambic pentameter, but I told the story, it was, the monologue was Lantz and his dog.

I don't even remember what play it was from because I know my limitations. This was out of my perfume. Right. And I went L the out of my perfume. Right. And I went to launch and the dog. And then I said went for a walk and I made it up. And they still let you in. Absolutely brilliant.

Not only did they let me okay, so there are 25 actors started 11 finished. I was one of three actors asked into the professional company, I now am making $172 a week. I am starting my dream. I am eight, thinking about being a professional actor, I am now being paid. I don't know.

Then I got a $10 raise, went to one of the best repertory theaters in the country in Washington, D.C. It was Moon Children. That was a cast. That's hysterical. Michael Tucker, Jill Eikenberry, Chris Guest, just on and on.

Jimmy Woods. Oh wow, James Woods. Oh my God. Now, so how did you, did you get to Yale via acting chops or were you an academic? I am in the bottom 3% academically in America. So then what are you doing over at Yale? Well, I was all just auditioning.

I was just, it's just your ability to impress them as an actor. What at eight years old made you want to act? Was it that dance thing that you saw? That is a good question. I'm not sure. My standard answer is if people were born to try and do something, I was born to try and be an actor.

Wow. But did you have that in your family? Did your parents encourage it? Did you guys go see a lot of shows? My parents encouraged me, not an iota. And my father brought a lumber business over from Germany. He imported and exported wood. And he wanted me to do the same. He wanted me to take over the business. And my joke is he said to me, why do you think I bought the business over here? And I said, besides being chased by the Nazis, dad,

was there like a bigger reason? Right, right, right. Oh my God. Hey, Henry, what year did your mom and dad come over from Germany? Was it in the 30s? 1939. Wow.

My father asked his mother and took my mother's jewelry, bought a box of chocolate, melted the chocolate, poured the chocolate over the jewelry, put it back in the box, put the box under his arm, and then got a work visa for six weeks. So when the Nazi said, are you taking anything of value? He said, no, open my bags, check my pockets,

I have nothing. And that box of chocolate started him on his new life because he pawned all of the jewelry until he was able to buy it back. And I have my great grandfather's pocket watch that came out of jewelry encased in chocolate. Wow. That's usually right with the gold coin.

It's usually gold on the outside and chocolate in the middle. This time it was reversed. Yes. Yes. And that chocolate, you couldn't eat it. You could not eat it. It always gave you herpes. But that, but what an amazing, what an amazing story.

And so when your father comes, so I get it, you sort of, the way you characterize him, he's like, he was tough. He wanted you to take over the lumber business, but I'm sure in his mind he's like, hey, I came in tough times. You're right. We were persecuted.

You're right. I understand all of that. I swear. I do. I admire. They learned a new language. He started a business in a new country. He didn't know if he would be able to stay.

But here it is. When you have a child and they're in front of you, they're not an extension of who you are. They're not there to make you proud. And if you see your child is got a problem, even if you don't know the name, if you don't understand it, your job is to make sure that that child

feels comfortable enough not to lose their entire self-esteem, but to help them meet their destiny, not get proud of them when they figured out how to meet their destiny all by themselves. Right. That's an interesting thing. Yeah, because you had to battle through

some pretty significant dyslexia challenges, yes? I still do. You don't lose it. Dyslexia is with you, you just have to learn to negotiate it and there are things I just can't do and then there are other people who I depend on to do it. Thank God Stacey, my wife, is a brilliant speller. But it's hereditary, I'm sorry.

Well I was gonna say, you've written books about it. You've been really vocal about it in terms of identifying it in kids and helping them because of your own experience and using that to try to talk about it. Is that right? Am I right about that? I did not know that that was going to happen. In 2001, I had just finished a Broadway play with John Ritter and Len Cario. Right. It was a Neil Simon play. Oh my God, it was my dream. The first play I did, open and closed in one night.

This one ran for nine months. Wow. Wow. So I come home, can't get hired. I go to a friend and I said, I don't know what to do, I need help. He said, write books for children about your learning condition. I said, I can't do it because I've got a learning problem. He said, I'm going to introduce you to Lynn Oliver. And then you know what I found out? The lesson is there is not one way to do anything. There is your way, and your way is as valid

as any other way. Was there any kind of, while you were discovering that you had dyslexia, did you know something was wrong, and did you do anything to try to hide it? I used humor, I used humor I used humor so I I couldn't read I couldn't read off a page. Yeah, I couldn't spell I still can't spell look I have over my

Computer I have words schedule that I can't Sound out and really so they're there, because I use them so often, like the word schedule, and I just look up and that's how I spell it. Wow. Yeah, I remember when I was a kid in school, I knew I had problems with my eyes,

I couldn't see, and I sat in the back of the class, and the class had two doors, one at the front entrance of the class and one at the end, and I would ask to go to the bathroom, and I would leave the classroom, go up the hallway to the front entrance and there was just a little vestibule before you opened it

and I would look through the glass to read the blackboard to see what was on it and I would go back to my desk in the back of the class. Because I was too embarrassed, I was like, I can't see the- I understand. Henry, I'm borrowing Sean, I'm at Sean's desk and I just found this over his computer.

You can probably see spaghetti and meatballs. I don't know why. Can I just say something? Corbin affirmation. Can I just say something? Each one of you, I know individually, I know, you know, I met the two of you, I met you at the first day of doing Arrested Development. You were on the couch in the living room.

I was your lawyer and not very good. And Sean, I met at Max Munchnik's party and I was so overwhelmed by meeting him that I was a little out of body, and he looked at me, I said, oh, I'm so, and he looked at me and went, hello. And I thought, oh, I've completely screwed that up. Oh, God, no, I was probably dying inside.

But that is, I'm so happy to be with you. Henry, can I tell you something? I have so many great memories, and people ask me all the time about working with you, and obviously you're an icon, and I say, I have a bunch of really distinct, and they're all good memories of you, and I tell you them sort of in no particular way.

One is, and Jay, you were there, we were doing a scene, you, me and Jason, and you, Henry, and Jeffrey Tambor, and we were doing a scene in a bathroom at the old season one. And we were doing the scene in a bathroom, I forget the conversation in the scene, and then we all leave the room,

and at the end, you're left in the bathroom, you look in the mirror, you go to comb your hair and you go, nah. Like that Fonzie move. But really subtly and then you walk out. So that was my first, and I remember Jason and I going like, can you believe we're doing this scene and he's doing a fucking Fonzie thing? How lucky are we that we get to be doing it?

A, that's my A. My B is this, my first year of Arrested Development, I was living in LA part-time just at work. And I had a few friends, Jason being one of them, and Sean and I weren't that friendly yet. I didn't really like him that much. But I was on my own often, and on the weekends, if I didn't go back to New York, I was on my own.

And you and your wife, Stacey, welcomed me in your home a few times. On a Saturday morning, you'd say, come over and we'd do breakfast and bagels and blah, blah, blah, blah. And you were so kind. It's where I met Jed. It's where I met all your kids. And I, Max, and I was like, this is unbelievable. So kind. You took your time

and you welcomed me into your home. And I honestly, I never forget it to this day, how kind that was of you. I love it. Well, you know, you're all invited. There is a seat at my table. I had the pleasure of having Jason and his incredible wife for dinner.

And the only one who hasn't been here is Sean. Yeah, Amanda and I went over there and Zoe was there and Rob was there, the great Rob Reinis. Oh, I was gonna say that, and then Zoe and Rob. And of course I've come to know Rob, your son-in-law, obviously over the years he built my house, he's an incredible guy. He's so good, isn't he?

He's incredible. I had a conversation with him outside, maybe, but he was an actor, He was a really good actor. He wanted to date my daughter and I said I Just want to tell you you better earn a living Because this is not a easy person We can cut it out, but what's Rob's last name Rob Reines Rob Reines, so he wanted to be an actor, and I said, oh, you. Yeah, he's the contractor.

He's the great, you want something built in Los Angeles. He's a great builder of homes. He and his partner, Brian. And you know what, and so that was the conversation. So he then went to his father's friend, got a job, because his father's friend is also a very good building company. And he started in the parking lot where the crew would come and he would move the cars

around so they all fit in the small space of the parking for the day. And he met Brian, who was part of the crew. And together they have made this wonderful company. Sean, Sean, VR, the company's called VRB, and you know my old house that I used to have up the hill? They built, Rob built that house. Yeah, I met the guy. And then the house I'm in now, Rob completely redid it and did everything.

And I try, anytime, anything, he's the best, this is the kind of guy Rob is. When he built that other house that I used to live in, something fucked up when we were gonna do this and we're gonna have a deck and usually, and it came in, it wasn't quite right and the wood was, and usually guys, you know, contacts go, well, that's the way it is,

too bad you gotta pay blah, blah, blah. Rob says, I'm rebuilding the deck, I'm paying for the, I'm paying for the, the labor, the lumber, everything, that's not your fault, I'm taking the deck. I'm paying for the labor, the lumber, everything. That's not your fault, I'm taking care of it. And I said, Rob, you don't have to, he goes, no, I have to do it. That's the kind of guy he is.

That's amazing. That's amazing. Hey, Sean, Sean, can I ask you a question? Yes. This has been on my mind for a long time. Are you going to bring your Broadway award-winning show to LA?

No, it's had a marvelous life. I wanna tell you for the listening audience who did not have the extraordinary experience of seeing Good Night Oscar on Broadway, Sean Hayes, first of all, disappeared. You know Sean, and you saw nothing of the Sean you know on that stage. And then you find out he is a concert pianist,

and for 30 minutes plays the piano concert-ready. minutes, plays the piano, concert ready, the audience jettisoned out of their seats. They lept out of their seats. That's very sweet of you. It was electrifying. It really was. Recently? This is a recent project, Sean?

Yes it is, yes it is. It was about a year ago. You were crying right next to me, Willie. And then Sean, Sean went and go ahead and then he took a Tony Award for it. It's very nice. And Henry, you were very sweet to even talk about it. And I saw you on a morning talk show talk about it.

I was floored. I was like, oh my God, one of my childhood idols is talking so lovely about me. So it was really. But if you did not win the Tony, there would have been something wrong with the universe. That's very nice. I agree.

That's true. We'll be right back. I'm Mike Bubbins. I'm Ellis James. And I'm Steph Guerrero. And we're convinced that our podcast, The Socially Distanced Sports Bar, is going to be your new favorite comedy podcast with just a little bit of sport thrown in. You don't have to love sport, like sport or even

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with a touch of humor, I just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. a dash of sarcasm, and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a little bit of cursing. This mother-f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal,

or you love to hop in the way back machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Nancy's love story could have been ripped right out of the pages of one of her own novels. She was a romance mystery writer who happens to be married to a chef. But this story didn't end with a happily ever after. When I stepped into the kitchen, I could see that Chef Brophy was on the ground,

and I heard somebody say, call 911. As writers, we'd written our share of murder mysteries. So when suspicion turned to Dan's wife, Nancy, we weren't that surprised. The first person they look at would be the spouse. We understand that's usually the way they do it. But we began to wonder, had Nancy gotten so wrapped up in her own novels, there are murders in all of the books, that she was playing them out in real life? Follow Happily Never After, Dan and Nancy on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of Happily Never After, Dan and Nancy early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus.

From Wondery, I'm Raaza Jafri, and this is The Spy Who. This series, we open the file on Eamonn Dean, the spy who betrayed Bin Laden. In 1994, 16-year-old Eman wants to die. He heads to war-torn Bosnia to join the Mujahideen and save his fellow Muslims. He hopes to become a martyr so that he can be reunited with his dead parents in paradise. Instead, he's about to be confronted by a cruel and bloody reality.

A reality that will lead him to turn his back on terrorism and become the West's top spy inside Al-Qaeda. Follow The Spy Who on the Wanderer app, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Or you can binge the full season of The Spy Who, betrayed Bin Laden early and ad-free with Wanderer+. And now, back to the show. Henry, so you shoot out of the stratosphere with Happy Days.

You are arguably one of the most famous men in the world. You probably can't walk down the street. What was that adjustment like? And then I want you to talk to me about the adjustment afterwards when you couldn't possibly match that level of success or profile. How did you weather that sort of gap

between the end of happy days and the highlights that followed after that, because you can't keep it up at that level, and how did you manage the swale? Those are two really great questions. I swear to God, I think I have to really give it to my dyslexia, because there's an emotional component that goes on. Your lack of self, no matter how you appear on the outside,

is churning on the inside. So people talking to me like I can walk on water, I keep looking over my shoulder because they can't possibly be talking to me. Because they don't know who I am. Because, you know, so I was able to keep grounded. Then I met Stacey, which did an even better job. And then Jed came with the marriage.

He was a gift with the marriage. And that, painting his face to look like Kiss, the marriage and that painting his face to look like kiss kept you focused on what is in the moment and has nothing to do with who you are. I had the most amazing time. Now it comes, I have an office, I have a production deal because of Skip Brittenham the third. And now I am not getting any calls or callbacks.

And I'm having like psychic pain. I'm telling you, there was a pain in my brain from not having any idea of what to do next. I had a plan A and I just lived it. I had no plan B. And then I literally thought it's over. And I had the fear, what do I do? Will it match it?

Could I ever match it? Same thing happened just now. We just finished Barry at the end of last year. Yeah. Will I match it? Same thing happened just now. We just finished Barry at the end of last year. Yeah. Will I match it? Will I, thank you, thank you. I'm standing. I'm taking a bow.

Mm-hmm. Yes. I could have, yeah, I could. Okay. It was palpable. And then my lawyer, Skip, said, I'm gonna start a production company for you So here's another lesson. I learned I

Said I can't do that. I know nothing about business. I I'm dyslexic. He said you'll learn and You know something so there were things about being a producer I could do And the other things I found people who could do it better. But it was. So this was Fair Dinkum, this is the production company that was set up after Happy Days, and the acting calls were not during, and the acting calls were not coming post Happy Days.

But for eight years. But during that time, out of desperation or creativity or whatever it was, you started to diversify into producing and directing as well, yes, and this is where directing those movies came along and a little bit later, MacGyver, yeah? Oh yeah, MacGyver.

MacGyver was the first show that we ever produced. I had three different partners, writing partners, who were going to create the material to do my on-air commitments. At that time, they paid you not only compensation, but they gave you, if you brought them a show like ABC, if you brought ABC a show they liked, they would put it right on.

You didn't have to go through the process. So I had two of those. And MacGyver was- I didn't know you produced MacGyver. That's crazy. Yeah, that was the first one that we ever brought to ABC. Yeah. And what were the two?

What was the other one? The other one was with Jeff Tambor where he played a blind English professor. So funny. It was called Mr. Sunshine. But we only did 13. It did not last. I remember. But it was great.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was going to try to guess. I was going to say a good title for that would have been wear my glasses So so you so you start producing that and you and MacGyver gets on the air it takes off it's it's a big head Yeah, you know, it went for 13 years Seven the first iteration and then we brought it back for five So that it was a pretty terrific run Did Forte and John Salmon those guys have to reach out to you when they started doing the Gruber didn't like those McGrue Did you like those McGrue were spin? I did I did I think will is is unbelievable

Yeah, and no, but no, they did not reach out to me. I did, you know it because it was owned by Paramount and ABC at the time Right, so so you, right, right. So you do that, so you start getting into producing and you just figure what, I'm just gonna be a producer forever and this is? I didn't know. I thought I was just gonna be a producer for a minute.

Yeah. And then it became a profession. And then we did sightings for seven years, studying all things paranormal. Wow. And then we did a wonderful show which was a kid show in So Weird. We produced it in Vancouver. Yeah. About a little girl, Mackenzie Phillips. This was her first job after cleaning herself up. And she was a rock star on a bus.

Oh, yes. Her manager drove the bus. Her daughter and the manager's son would go off when they were setting up the concerts and stuff and find paranormal experiences in whatever town they were in. It was called So Weird. All right, now how long did that one go?

That sounds like a sprint. That one went for three or four years. Three or four years out of that one, good Lord. All right, so then you're feeling buoyed by the producing success. There is still a passion for acting. Passion for acting, feeling horrible, that there's nothing.

Well because you were so, I mean you may have started the term typecast because you were so identifiable as the Fonz because he was so, so popular. I mean, listener, this was at a time when there were three networks, period. And Happy Days was, if not the top show, one of the top shows, you're probably getting 30 to 40 to 50 million people watching it every week.

You can't move, you can't ask an audience to see you as anything different because you're so beloved as that character, so to ask someone to hire you to play somebody else is probably a tall order. So you diversify into producing, you're doing the directing. At what point did you feel that maybe there'd been enough time now where you could start to have a realistic expectation to be hired as an actor?

Do you know what I learned? And I've used this image a lot, but I see myself as that toy with sand at the bottom. And you blow it up and it was a cowboy at one time, probably now it's a Star Wars figure, and you punch it, and it goes down, and it comes right back to center. I saw myself like that, that I would,

and then eventually, what I learned is, for everybody who is listening, a lot of people will say no But you just stay at the table long enough Somebody is going to say yes right and I did a movie for television a real story about a father of two his wife was in an accident she was pregnant and of two, his wife was in an accident, she was pregnant, and I could have an abortion and keep the child, or she would have the child and I would lose my wife.

Right. You know, and the right to lifers took me to the Supreme Court not to save my wife. Okay. Wow. I mean, that was the story, and we lived on Long Island. Yeah.

And you got some good responses from that, and it was a bit of a reset button for you? It was sort of a reset button, yes. And then I did one of the worst movies made by a human being called Control Tower, and on that set, I got a phone call, would I like to be in the water boy? Right, yeah, that's right.

Nice, and then, and let's get to one of my favorite shows of all time, Sean, it's called The Rest of Development, and you played a character on that. Let me write it down. You had, so you knew Jeffrey when you came on the show that. Let me write it down. So you knew Jeffrey when you came on the show. Yeah, a little bit. Did you know Mitch Hurwitz at all before you came?

I didn't know anybody and remember I was hired as your family lawyer for one or two episodes and happily stayed for the next five or six years. The name of the character was? Barry Zuckerkorn. Barry Zuckerkorn. Barry Zuckerkorn. Sean, there's a moment in season two of Arrest Development

where we're all out on the dock, we're supposed to be Orange County, but we're in the marina and we had, the show got sponsored, we were looking, we were hanging on by a thread, because the ratings weren't good, and we got a sponsor and it was like the, it was. Burger King. Burger King.

Crispy sandwich or something, right? Oh God, I'm in, I'm in. So, you know, the term jumping the shark, of course, came from Henry when he was on Happy Days, when the Fonz jumps the shark, right? And then the criticism was, it was an episode so late in the run of the series that that they had basically run out of ideas and now

They're gonna write that the Fonz jumps his motorcycle over a shark and you know, oh my god Aren't they reaching for storylines? So yeah, you know became known as you know, well, you know, you don't want to write that episode That's like jumping the shark. Except we were number one for the next four years. But they were number one, exactly. But the cynics sort of painted it that way and the term became jumping the shark.

So in this episode, in this moment where we're trying to figure out what we're gonna do and we've got this sponsor, we have to work in Burger King Chicken Sandwich in it. We have to actually have it in an episode. The Fox Network says, yeah, the only way we can cash in the money from Burger King is we've got to get the name of the sandwich into the actual dialogue of the show

and we're just furious on set. And everybody's furious, and Mitch is furious. So if Mitch figures out this way, there's a scene where Henry's, now his character, Barry's like, talking to us about something and there are all these. Well Buster had just had his arm bitten off by a seal. By a seal. Out in the ocean.

And then they captured, I guess what, the shark, no then they had a bunch of sharks on the thing and so Henry goes, listen, I'd love to talk to you guys about this but I gotta go to Burger King and get one of their crispy chicken sandwiches and then he just does a gingerly little hop over a shark Yeah, so good and the only actor in the universe who's jumped the shark twice that's right So Henry what what that's hysterical what it what excites you now you still get up and like I love acting

I'm gonna keep acting till the day I die like yeah, I do love it. Yeah, that's good. I do I Have to say I'm in a moment in time right here as we're talking about Be very careful what you wish for Because my life, you know, I wrote a memoir last doctor. Yes, you did Called being Henry Henry. I love Life, you know, I wrote a memoir last October. Yes, you did. Yes. Called Being Henry. Being Henry. Being Henry, I love that.

It is. So it was on the New York Times bestseller list. It was a New York Times bestseller for 11 weeks. 11 weeks. Wow. Then I went to Australia to tour with the book. And it became number one. And now they're taking me to Ireland, Scotland,

and England on a book tour. So, oh my goodness gracious me. That's so cool, congratulations. I can't forget, we have to mention Detective Duck, because the new one is coming out in October. The second one. The children's book. There are gonna be four. That's more my speed.

Now, is this a Zipser? No, Hank Zipser was 28 in total. 28 books, seven million copies sold. 28 individual novels. Then we wrote Here's Hank when he was in the second grade. And Here's Hank, I'll tell you is really interesting because we use a font that has never been used before. Can you see?

It makes it easier for the eye and the mind to connect. That's more spread apart. Wow. And a dad whose children were dyslexic developed it in Holland, the new font. And so that's a font and a style that dyslexics can read? It makes it so much easier, Sean, to actually read it.

The words are weighted on the page because a lot of times, if you have a learning challenge, the words float or letters float or you have a learning challenge, the words float or letters float or you leave a word out, this allows you to anchor your eyes. Henry, it doesn't matter. You could put that book in a Big Mac and Sean's not going to read. Okay? So it doesn't matter what you do.

No, I'll eat it. But I just think it's so incredible that you've got the world famous dyslexia and yet you're one of the most world famous authors that there is. That happened? And that you're a graduate of Yale and you have learning disability. It's just, it's so incredible what you've done

with your life, the longevity of your career, your ability to maintain relevance. Barry, you find, was that your first Emmy award? That was my first Emmy. I won two daytime Emmys, but that was my first. Yeah, but I mean, having so much success for so long and you're actually still escalating, there's still a peak, you know, now at this age.

So it's just so admirable what you have continued to do. Maintain doing. But I am, it's not lost on me that this is my incredible life. I'm not kidding. Yeah, I get your appreciation. Yeah, it is sincere. I'm a believer.

I don't think you're faking it anymore. What's great is you come in, from my experience, you show up, you're the kind of guy, you show up every day on set, like it's a new opportunity, it's a new day, you bring great energy, you always, you wanna laugh, you wanna experience, you're very much in the moment at all times. You're one of those people, I love that about you.

I really do. Well, you people, I love that about you. I really do. Well, you know, I'll tell you something. You dream about it, you're told, you will never achieve. Right. And then here I am in all these wonderful experiences. I'm overwhelmed. I'm over fucking well.

Right, and I think when you lead with gratitude like you do, people are then drawn to you, and that's why you are a light that everybody loves and loves being around. And through all of this, you've managed to have one of the most successful marriages in show business, which is no easy thing. Oh, that's next Wednesday.

So, oh, he's done next Wednesday. Just to Wednesday. Oh, next Wednesday. So we're making news. Hey, listen, he's done next Wednesday. Just to Wednesday. Next Wednesday. So we're making news. Hey, listen, you had a good run. Bye, Stacey. You had a good run. But the kids are happy, you know, like, you know.

She's not gonna hear this, is she? No, no, she'll never hear this. No, no, no, no, no. She's in another room. I could say anything I want. Yeah, but I'm crazy about Max and Zoe. I don't know Jed, I don't think. I don't think I've met Jed.

Jed's great. I know Jed, as you know, I know Jed very well. Yeah. I don't know Jed. I don't think. I don't think I've met Jed. You know, Jed's great. I know Jed. As you know, I know Jed very well. Yeah, he's a great dude. It was a promise I made to Stacey. I never wanted to duplicate parenthood the way I experienced it. I'm just telling you that's true.

And I made a promise that I would be a different father. And the lesson I learned there is a heard child is a powerful child. If they believe you're just listening, that they exist, it just helps them fly to the sun. You know, that's your next book, Parenting, a book about parenting. You should.

You got those good advice at the beginning when you were talking about the kids and stuff, your kids. I'll buy it and read it. Henry, we love you. We do love you. I love you. You've given us 60 minutes of your valuable life and we really, really appreciate it.

Please hug and kiss your entire family. I'm so happy that you invited me. It's long overdue. Each one of you individually is very important to me. Who's your favorite? My favorite? Who's your favorite? Of these three? Just tell me tell me, just tell me.

Okay, I'm writing it down. Okay, okay. Don't you misspell my name, God damn it. Yeah. We love you so, so much. We love you, Henry. I can't wait to come over for another yummy dinner. Continued success, you're the best.

Just remember, there is a seat at our table for each one of you. I'm coming over. And Sean, your hubby. I know, I have to, I'm coming. Okay. I would love that. You gotta do it.

It's gonna have to be waffles and tuna fish, right? Yeah, exactly. Together again. Is that all you eat? Pretty much. No, he'll eat anything. Henry, send our love to your whole family, to all the kids, to everybody. We love you guys.

Love you. You know what? When you were here at our table and we had scooped bagels with melted cheese, they don't make that cheese anymore. No kidding. No. Altadena stopped making that cheese

and it's never been the same. Listen, Altadena, if you're listening, if you work at Altadena right now, the Fonz wants you to start making that fucking cheese again Yeah, listen up. Yeah, so a white cheddar All right Henry, I love you enjoy the rest of your day, thank you my best at home everybody, okay Bye pal. Bye. Oh If you guys got your act together,

you might be able to live as successful and as warm and as nice a life as he has, okay? Yeah. Why don't you just, you know, just mind it, okay? But the gratitude thing is big. I remember walking down the street in Beverly Hills or West Hollywood or something, and there was a deli, I was walking into a deli,

and he was walking out, and he's, and that's how I know it's all real because he's exactly how he is in life as he was when we were just talking to him. He's like that with anybody. It doesn't matter who you are or what you do, he's interested in what you do. He's constantly talking to people. I mean for 50 years he's been a fucking icon.

That's what happy looks like. Yeah but it's surprising though because he's so recognizable, you would think that somebody like him had developed an ability, maybe even a habit, of seeming somewhat standoffish so that people didn't approach him. But instead, he's absolutely the opposite.

It's remarkable. It's amazing he was self-aware enough to be grateful about that success so early on. Yeah, and then he found arguably even bigger success with Barry here almost 50 years later. And all the books that he wrote, what do you wanna do to those books? Do you wanna get them?

Do you wanna lease them? What do you wanna do? Do you wanna rent them? Or do you wanna buy the bugs? Or you want to buy them? Are you late for something? Do you have to go somewhere? What are you doing? See, I was going to do, instead of an ay, I was going to do a bye.

Oh, no. You guys are flying home today, huh? Yeah, we're on the same flight. Oh, that's Sean. You're on it. All right. We're on the same flight. Love you both so much and an official bye Smart list is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbico, Michael Grant Terry, and Rob Armjarff.

If you like SmartList, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondry.com slash survey. Hey, it's Guy Raz here, the host of How I Built This, a podcast that gives you a front row seat to how some of the biggest products were built and the innovators, entrepreneurs, and idealists behind them. Every week I speak to someone new. Stories like Justin Wolverton's, a lawyer who just wanted a healthy alternative to ice

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