SmartLess - "Jen Psaki"

Episode Date: August 28, 2023

Press room’s graceful guide, Jen Psaki’s words, truth and tide, Wisdom flows inside. Welcome to an all-new-HaikuLess.This episode was recorded on July 11, 2023.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey everybody, welcome to our talk show. What is it? What is it? What is it? What is it? What is it? What is it? What is it?

What is it? What is it? What is it? What is it? What is it? What is it? What is it? What is it? What is it? What is it? Okay, we just we don't have a band or tell it right now on the show I hope that you would just not talk and just say hey welcome to smartless so talk show for you guys a listen show for me Yeah, sure got it. Welcome to smartless How's everybody doing today? At a great day.

At a great morning. Yeah. But Sean, you've got to tell around your neck. Why is that? It's a blanket, Jay. Oh, are you in an overly air conditioned department? I certainly am. Oh, that's high-class problems.

What's the temperature in New York City today? It's hot. It's 80, 90, I don't know. No kidding. And so you're in a place that's so hot, but you're wearing a blanket. Well, because Scottie's at the gym and he, when he gets home from the gym, it's like, you know, it's too hot without you. Do you know, that seven of the hottest days on record on this planet have been in the last week? Yes. Yes. I know. And it's crazy. And it's crazy.

Because of people like you. No, because because Scotty likes you to have all your. Because Scotty does, because Scotty does want to be hot when he comes home from the gym. No, no, no, or else. Take that. That's true. Take that. Polarize cap.

But wait, you love this. I think I told you this Jason before, but I don't know if I told you well. The, you know, when Scotty and I were at a restaurant the other night and we got in a fight about, not a fight, just a discussion about the weather, like the weather app versus the internet, I always look at the internet for the correct thing and he's like, no, just use your iPhone app, the weather app on your iPhone. I'm like, it's never right. It always says 70 or 80 and it's going to rain and it doesn't.

I go out to the internet, go to the internet. And then just to defuse the tension, when it gets real hot like that between us, like in a public place, I always look to his left to an imaginary person and I go, try living with it. Oh, God. Oh, God. Oh, God.

Wait, so when you go to the internet, what do you- I go to acu- other, I go to acu- other, that's better than the app. Where do you go on the internet, Sean? I go to act you whether that's better than the app. Where do you go on the internet, Sean? I go to whether, whether channel. Well, that's, that's, that's, there's an app for that. Yeah, but it's just like I just go to the, I just look it up. By the way, I can't imagine you ever fighting with anyone.

I was talking about you the other day with somebody and I, I, I said with all seriousness, I've never seen you in a bad mode. I've never seen you angry. I've never seen you in a bad mood. I've never seen you angry. I've never seen you fight, obviously, with anybody you're... You saw me, I got angry with you three years ago. What did I do? What did you do?

Nothing, we were just arguing about something on the phone, and then we called each other after, and you said, I think that was our first ever fight. And I said, yeah, and you smiled, and you laughed, and you said, how does it feel? God, I don't remember. You guys got a little bit...

I remember you guys got a little scrappy. You know, we got a discussion. But I have been angry like twice. There's only like one or two people in my whole life that can actually push me in a corner so bad that when I come out, I sound like the most brilliant like speaker in the world. Like when my buttons are pushed so much,

laser focus. I am so, I sound so smart. Otherwise. Yeah, I sound so smart. Otherwise. Yeah, I mean, like watching you in the play, you know, your character gets pretty, he's, he's not a happy guy. Yeah, I think I get it out in that way. That was really interesting to see. So you know how to, how to be grumpy.

Yeah. You just never are. Why are you so fucking happy? You know what then, and then that's why you guys are such a great, yeah, because I'm grumpy all the time. But I have, I'm not upset about anything. I just, I think my rest is just, grump.

Yeah, Amanda's always asking me, well, are you okay? You're in a good mood? Yeah, yeah, I'm just chill. All the time. I'm always chill. You're always super chill. Yeah.

So you're in a constancy of chillax, would you say that I'm always chillaxing. And then you know what? But you, but Sean, you're always, you're always obviously happy. I'm never, obviously, well, not never, but I'm, when I'm, I'm, I'm just sort of normal. You're never normal. You're always happy. Oh, that's going on. Honestly, things that dumbest cliche answer, but it's the truth. I think the way I grew up, I grew up so shit, shit poor. We all did in my family. That sounds so dumb, but I walked down the street

every day going, oh my God, I don't have to go through a winter in Chicago without any heat. I don't have to go without food. I don't have to go without all these things that we didn't have as kids. That's still tangible to you. That's still... Yeah, I'm just like, it's my work hard and it's why I'm grateful every day.

Huh. Pretty good. And that's the end of the show. Well, what's your, you're always kind of just normal. Like when you're happy about something you can tell, when you're upset about something you can tell. Yeah. But you're usually right in the middle, like me.

You're not, you're not on some... I've never seen... I feel like Sean might be taking something. I wish. Well, I think about him every once in a while. But will, I've never seen you really, I see you hot when you get opinionated about something. I've never seen you angry at a person.

Well, this is the other thing that I have to, and I've been warned by Alessandra and even by my ex by Amy, which is just. Stop hitting people. No, Amy used to turn me out. Okay, I get about, I go, like, get heat about that. She just looks and she go, tone. I go, sorry. And so I get nothing will get me hotter than that. I know. I tell her to relax. But I don't get it. If somebody just said tone. Yeah. I'd be like, oh, really?

What kind of tone would you get? But you see, I don't take it that way. I don't take it personally that way. Because in that moment, I go like, oh, the other person's going through is being subjected to my, to my shit. And so like, I got it. Because that's a blind spot, you know, is like, I get in this thing where I go, I'll hear somebody in a relationship or whatever or somebody in my life and they'll say, hey,

you said that and bubble a balloon and go, boy, I really didn't see it that way. I'm really sorry. And yeah, I appreciate getting heads up like that too. And I also don't want people walking on eggshells around me. I just assume that no one's paying any attention to me. So I can just be just level and normal. But I realize that, well, if I'm not sending signals that I'm in a good mood,

people might be uneasy around me or anyone else that might, you know. I heard that the people over at Aggregate, all the staff got together. You know what they're gonna call the company now? Here comes the eggshell productions. Oh I thought you're gonna say aggravated. Oh Agrival that would have been better. All right, let's get to our guess. Okay. I love this person. I'm so excited for you guys to meet this person

We're all fans of this person. Okay, and Jason just a little hud's up. She was on your list too. I found out really You stole her? I did, I stole her. She's gonna fit right in here since she isn't a stranger to dealing with idiots. In fact, some could agree, some could argue, sorry, she's made a career of it. Oh, he's written this. I read it, I totally read it. I read it, she's. And got, she's fitty. Right, me, I did.

Oh my god, that's so funny. In college, she had a competitive backstroke with the William and Mary athletic tribe before eventually deciding to dive into the mean waters of political campaigning. And though it would be difficult to be the most mean to employee at the White House, she's gotta be in the top five. I'm a big fan of the super smart, super cute ginger.

Ginger. It ends all in ginger. It ends all in ginger. It ends all in ginger. Oh, I know. I love the transition from backstroke. I was a mediocre college swimmer. I'm just gonna acknowledge at the start here,

you're in politics, so thank you for that. And I also learned a little conversation about happiness. I thought you were like the superstar Backstrucker. No, I was a mediocre. You think you're in shape until you try to swim. I mean, any kind of swimming is really impressive because boy, you try two laps and you're down. And it's the hardest thing to do. That in full corp as well.

Jen Saki, Jen Saki, nice to meet you. I'm so glad to hear it. Nice to meet you. What are your thoughts on treading water as a form of exercise? Because I've heard that that's like involves water polos. It is hard. Now, when you, I was a lifeguard growing up and you have to be able to tread water for a certain amount of time. I don't know if any of you are aspiring lifeguards, but you, I was a lifeguard growing up, and you have to be able to tread water for a certain amount of time. I don't know if any of you were aspiring lifeguards,

but you might have to practice. It's part of the journey to save people. Let me tell you, I went with my friend once a long time, and I went on a kid to this lake. And in the middle of the lake, there was this lake. You could lay out this, hang on, hang and stay with me. Sorry. This little platform that you could swim to,

and we got out there, and I couldn't swim back. I panicked. I had a grab on his swim to and we got out there and I swam, I couldn't swim back, I panicked, I had a grab on his back and he had a swam. Well this is the plot of Stand By Me. What are you talking about? You just made that up? And then we found a dead body. Jen Socky, I'm so excited that you're here. I'm excited to be here.

I'm a huge fan and happy third birthday. No way. No, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's bananas that you even know that we're on the planet. I watch you every single day. I'm totally star struck. Your world is far more exciting and interesting and respectful than ours. Respectable than ours. Yeah. Well, yeah. Well, their her side. Shall we? Her side. Her side. Yeah. Yeah. No, I want to first of all, I just want to well, there's her side. Shall we say her side?

Her side. Yeah, yeah. No, I want to first of all, I just want to get this out of the way, the dumb stuff at the beginning. How many people pronounce your last name wrong? And dude, oh God, I mean 80%. What do they say?

Pesui, Pesale, Saki, they add letters in between. And then I'm sympathetic to hard names, and I really try hard to pronounce them, but I over-ask sometimes had to pronounce names as a result. Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure. How are you liking, how are you liking doing a show? What's the schedule like? Is it not so easy?

Oh, it's great, I love it. I mean, it's different because my show shows on Sundays, I have another show on Thursday as a peacock show, and I would do this letter in a couple different things. But yes, on peacock, you can stream it. But on-sense, there's a lot of build up to the Sunday show. So I wouldn't say the schedule is, and I appear in other people's shows too, so it depends on the week. But it's just, it's different from the White House

where I was just in my last job. Because then it was all about the briefing every day. And you work 24-7. It's not like that anymore. But I do spend a lot of time with this amazing team trying to figure out what unique we're going to say, what guests we're going to have on. It's been a lot of time reading.

So it's just a different schedule, but it's not as insane as it used to be. Well, so speaking of the insane times, you're at the White House. And what was that? What was that like? Where were you when you got the call? Well, yeah, where were you when you first of all,

when you got the call? What was it like? What were you when you got the call? I was just gonna say is the answer Peter Ducey. I don't know, people always ask me that. I mean, I love that, I't know. People are asking that. I love that. I love that.

Go ahead. That was not your question. Well, we can do that. Where were you when you got the call that they were offering you that job? Do you remember that? How that went down? Yeah. So I was a bridesmaid twice before I was a bride as they like to say.

I was the runner for this job twice, which is relevant mainly because a lot of times people don't get jobs. And then sometimes it works out, right? And that's always, that's a, was a big lesson to me. But I was working on the transition. There's a presidential transition, right, between every president. And I just felt like I was working in the private sector.

I was, I was a, working for CNN. but I felt like I wanted to do something for government in that period of time post Trump. I didn't know what it was. So I was working on that. And I needed done, who is still one of President Biden's closest advisors. I needed done right now. Right, right. She's got a fabulous, doesn't it a great name?

I love that name. She called me and she said, would you be interested in being considered for this job? And I said, I'd be honored, but I really have to talk to my family about it, which sounds a little 1950s, but the truth is, no, I mean, some people think, you know, you're a woman, just do it. I believe that, but I have two little kids. I still do. I had them then as well. And I wanted to factor that in and see how that would be. But then fast forward, she called me and said, can you go see the president, President elect tomorrow or the next day or something? And so that, that was all, it was kind of a little bit of a short journey.

Okay. Can I ask you, was one of the considerations when you said I have to talk to my family? Obviously, you have to talk to your family, no matter who you are when you take a job like that because it's so all encompassing. And it's going to, it threatens to take a lot of your time and a lot of your energy and a lot of your focus. And so you've got to say to your, your partner and your kids and whatever. And all of a sudden, it's a public. Well, that was going to get to that.

So what I was saying was two part, which is the first part is it's a big job, but although we know that. But also, did you sort of give you some pause knowing that the environment had changed dramatically on in November 2016, everything changed the way that we approached and where all the norms were thrown out the window and all of a sudden everything is on the table or off the table depending on how you look at it.

And now we live in a different world. It's very changed. It's without grace. It's without norms. It's without respect for all that kind of stuff is thrown out. Was that a major consideration? Sorry for the long question. Oh no, I know this is going to sound crazy, but no, I didn't think that that

I lit was living that in the sense that I was consuming all of this vitriol just like everybody was, but I didn't apply it to myself. And actually even when I started the job working as the press secretary, you know, because it was the height of COVID and I we didn't I didn't go out anywhere. I didn't do anything social. I just basically went to work, just like everybody. I went to work. Everybody was tested every day. I went home.

And it wasn't until maybe three or four months in, I was, I threw out the first pitch at a Nats game, which was amazing, but also I'd never found baseball before. No, I didn't do it. No, I didn't. I didn't. I would totally.

I was really in the leading up to it. I thought to myself, OK, Anthony Fauci and other people really did not do a good job. And if that happened, I was already playing for it in my head, but I would say about my failed pitch. But when I was there, which was kind of the first random social thing I did, my husband was just me. And this older man, I mean, it doesn't matter,

but just a description of him, was following me around going, shame, shame, shame. And it was like, what? What? So I know, because he didn't like Joe Biden, maybe he didn't like the policies of the world I stood for. It's true. Who knows?

But to answer your question, now I'm giving you a long answer. I didn't really digest it in that way. And it really, but experiencing it and living it. And this happens to certainly people of both parties. So, but what I think has happened in more recent years is anyone who, and I don't know how it is for all of you, do people hate you in a different way?

Or do they just all love the way? How does it work? There's three categories. I just heard the three. Mostly to Sean, go ahead. Yeah. He gives a lot. I mean, Sean's answer on happiness.

I feel like, how could you not love him? I feel outraged about this. There's people who can't continue. There's three groups of people for you, for us, for anybody that's in the public eye. The people who hate you will always hate you. The people who love you will always, oh no, no. It's no matter what you do, The people who hate you will always hate you. The people who love you will always, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no matter what you do, the people who hate you will always hate you, no matter what you do, the people who love you will always love you, and no matter what you do, the people who don't care about you don't care about you are indifferent. Those are the three groups, right? Yeah, you're not, you're not turning anybody. There's not gonna be anybody. You didn't get a lot of letters going,

hey, you know, I really hated you a lot for the first three years. And you know what? You said, yeah, I was I'm just wrong about it. Like, it just doesn't exist in that way, which is absurd. Yeah. And we will be right back. Swantles is brought to you in part by all birds. Now, I do like shoes.

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Fandool, official partner of the NFL, 21 plus exclusions apply. See show notes for full disclaimer. And now back to the show. One of the things that, I think, Will, you've made fun of me for when I talk about getting getting news when you're in the White House versus getting like, I like it. Jason, think that there's a secret news.

I've heard you talk about this. Well, you think there's a secret source of information, right? No, there's a secret, but I think there's a news source for the news people. But I think you get information inside the White House earlier than say the press gets it. And I'd not buy a lot, but maybe by a few minutes, maybe an hour at times, yes. Yes.

Well, not exactly. Although, I do think you're onto a little bit of something is that you are making a bunch of the news in the White House, right? So in that sense, yes. I mean, if you're sitting, which I did, and many others did many times, in the situation room, and you know that something is going to happen, you're going to reopen

relations with Cuba. Whatever you're going to do, you're going to go after that. Or you're going to incoming from the defense department saying we have just, we've just gotten rid of one of the ISIS leaders or whatever. You guys get that information before the, so now. Then you know it's coming, yes. Right, but now that you're in the media, do you wish that you still had some of those same choices or avenues? Of course, yes. I mean, it's, you know, what do I mean?

I love my job, I love doing a TV show, I get to talk about all sorts of different things and talk to all sorts of smart people here. But I do miss being able to just walk into Jake Sullivan's office or even the OO office and just say, what's the deal with this? And there's certainly been news that's happened that you think, what is the deal with this? I want to know what the deal is.

It doesn't mean that. Yeah, it's like with airline food, right? Like what's the deal? There's sources as a journalist. Like does that ever... A bit, your sources as a journalist are incredible, right? Like what's it? Like your sources as a journalist like does that ever bet your sources as a journalist are incredible, right? Because you've got many, many high, high level friends in the government still. Yeah, look, I mean, I think Jen Jen, Jen, sorry, I hate to interrupt you. I just want to make sure

it's got a okay, because I know he just got back from the gym and I can see him in the background is. Yeah. Is it cool enough? Do you need to? Are you okay from the gym? I said you like the air conditioning on when you come back. Are you? Yeah. All right. Okay. Because you got the blanket stuff.

I'm so sorry. I mean it's all good. It's all good. I can hear Joy Reed who I know has been on before. I can hear in the hallway. She's three doors out. No, she's literally walking by my own. You're work right now.

Hell her. Yeah. That's so bad. That's so bad. She's not a phone. Yeah. So where is that Washington or New York? Yeah. Washington. Oh, God.

I would dork out so much in those offices. Just come on down. Joy and I will take you around. We can take you on the meat, the press site. Just can be so nerdy and amazing. It would be so good. So now, Jen, I have something to say before I want to get into how you started because now since we're talking

about the White House press room and everything like that. Now watching from home, first of all, you're on because you were also on Jason's list, I think, because we love you, we admire you. I love you and your brain. I'm in the neutral. Yes, and whenever you would come. You were on my list too.

It's cool, it's cool. It's cool, it's cool. It's fine. Now you know. No, you were on my list. I know the two who have had sex. Why don't you run, you You were on my list too. It's cool, it's cool. It's fine. Now you know. But it's okay. I know the two who have had sex. Why don't you run three of my list? I run that's much more of a taper. No, you were in my list.

Yeah, it loves the old tap. I would shake taper. He writes some good fiction books. It's all good. We love it. You run three of my list. You run three of my list. Three of my list.

Two things. At the end of the question, I want to know what the hell's in the binder. I think everyone wants to know what's in the binder, because it's so thick and you flip through it, and I want to know. A lot. What if it was just menus or something?

I just did it to spare me. It looks like. It looks like. I think I'll have the fried rice with the... Whenever you would come out to speak at a press conference, I'd be watching on TV, and be like, I'd point to the TV, I'm like, yeah, what Jen said. Like, I don't have the gift like you do

of just generally articulation and speaking in a succinct manner. And you always made the best point. You gave the most clarity when explaining a position on a certain topical issue. And you have the gift of communicating in a way that makes a digestible to us, right? Thank you.

And always, at least to me, there was always such common sense to everything you said. Sounds like a butt. I say that because it's okay, there's a butt. There's a butt coming or something. Well, I'm asking because, like you said, for debate, because now it seems the whole thing, it's an interesting job as press secretary, whether it's Democratic president or Republican president or whatever. And there's never going to be a situation where the press secretary goes, you know what? Great question. You got me. There's always going to be this thing where you know what

they're going to ask and they know you prepared the questions. So what's going on here? Well, that's true. I mean, look, the truth is, I think so. I mean, Fox News, I called on them every day. They didn't exactly like the Biden administration as a network.

They were really predictable because if you watch Fox on them every day, they didn't exactly like the Biden administration as a network. They were really predictable because if you watch Fox News every day, they kind of had a rotation of at the time when I was there. The border is burning and hundreds of thousands of people are coming across the border. COVID is a disaster and there's a rotation of things. So somewhat predictable is going to be one of those questions. Sure. Did we get an update on the caravan? Did it ever make it? Because man, there were a lot of... It's really hard to make it if something is a fabrication. That is true. I had a friend, I had a friend who's like these guys.

Who was in the caravan? Yeah. Is he a good friend? He was staying with you now. He was a friend. I'm not going to name him comedian sort of older guy a little bit like a little bit older than we are And he got he's one of those people who made that turn into Fox News when he got to be about 60 And it's a real bummer and I see him in boblot and he's like and his whole thing was the caravan

I'm like man, I it's not real. I mean go ahead anyway. Sorry. Yeah, well because you're often in a situation where you're up there Anyway, sorry. Yeah, well, because you're often in a situation where you're up there presenting facts, right? You're sitting there in the hub of information what is real what is not from an international level to a domestic level right and yet they're sitting there hearing you relay that Generally and then they say yeah, no, I don't believe Or that, like, I don't know where you go from there. Well, I think you try to make a dent into it. I mean, you're not, you try to present the counter story or the counter of the facts into counter

what the accusation is. But does that feel like drop in the bucket? Does it feel deflating? Do you feel defeated sometimes? Not really. I mean, the days that were defeating were the days where you'd answer the same question 50 times. Right. And those, there were days like that. That's okay. I mean, the truth is the facts, questions were not the hardest ones. They're not the hardest ones in there. The hardest ones are the people who are the experienced in-depth print reporters who are gonna actually ask you the very hard question that's hard to answer

because they've been working on it. That you may not expect. That you may not expect or you may see them in the room and you say, oh shit, I need to like warm up before I get to that person. Because the point of my question was or comment was just the fact that, and Jay, I know you said you didn't get it, but what I was trying to say was,

it's not that surprising the questions you know that you're going to get that day. Sure. Right? So, you're part of the job is to prepare for these things that are the issues of the day. Yeah, that's right. And there's a significant prep before you go out there, yes? I mean, that's why sometimes you guys are delayed, right? Because you're going to sit there with the man and say, what should our response be on

X, Y, or Z? Yeah, sometimes in exactly the man. I love it. I think he'd like to, you're talking about your Biden, he'd like to refer to that way. Dark Brandon, the man, the guy, the evil, whatever. Exactly. Well, look, I mean, I think when I was in the job,

and I think anyone who's done that job sees their job as, is speaking, of course, on behalf of the president. So you have to get feedback from that person to make sure you are projecting what they think, what their point of view is, what's actually going on. And sometimes, you know, the job, when I was doing it, I always felt like it was just, you wanna push as hard as you can push

on the system internally, whether it's the policy experts or the president or others to say, we need more, we need more, we need to be able to say more because you're kind of the bridge between the media, the press, and the president, and the senior members of the team. So, yeah, sometimes it was delayed because of that. Is there a specific moment or question or any kind of thing that really sticks in your memory where you're super, super close to saying, why don't you go fuck yourself? your memory where you're super, super close to saying, why don't you go fuck yourself? Oh.

The people who know me well would say that, like, there were times where I basically did without saying, go fuck yourself. Right, yeah. So, yes, of course. I mean, there were certainly moments where I lost kind of my steam when it was the 11th or 12th time of a question being asked and you just sort of,

but then what happens is that portion where you lose your steam or you don't give the full answer or you lose your temper is what goes online, right? So can we wear that? Exactly. There was a particular, I don't remember who he's worked for, but he asked me about abortion all the time and there was a time where basically ripped his head off. So, you know, there are times because you're human. I'm an Irish lass in my heart. I can't be level headed at all moments, but, you know, you tried to, especially given the time that we are in and we were in two years ago,

the whole goal was to try to be calm and even keeled because we needed to kind of take the venom out of the briefing room and return it to a place that was providing information to the public. And is the official angle that you're speaking on behalf of the president or you're speaking on behalf of the United States? Because there's a difference there, right? That is true. That's a good question. Thank you. But kind of bull. As did you get that? Did you hear it? Stop. It's a big one. We're recording. Guys, did you get that? Did you hear all the cheers? It's a big one.

We're recording. Where do you think his nickname is Stopped Clock? Yes. No, it's kind of the answer is both, because sometimes the questions were about the president's view. He is the leader of the United States or the president's meetings or his schedule or his conversation. And then there were sometimes questions about the policy of the United States. Which are sometimes that odd. I was going to say things that were at odds with the

policy of the United States. That's when things got a little tricky. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-aki. You were born in Stanford, Connecticut. Is that a punishment? Well, I was born in New York City. Oh, I thought you were born in Stanford. It's all good. They're close by. When did you move to Stanford? I mean, I was my parents were living there when I was born, but I was born in New York City hospital.

Okay. So you're arguing. Well, now you're arguing. Refresh your Wikipedia page. Yeah, I don't know. I'm also not Polish. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Not Polish? No. Not Polish. That's on your wiki page to no

I didn't say Polish. I didn't know. Maybe it's not on there anymore. I'm not are you Greek and Irish? What else? What are you? I am Greek and Irish Greek and Irish. Yeah, you're Gryresh. I never heard that but I like that What about your so you've three sisters you older oldest of three sisters your mom was a therapist. Yeah, still is. Still is. What was that like? Oh, she still is. I love that. I could use her. What was that like growing up and did that kind of, um, you know, because therapists are very smart people. Yeah. Is it to teach you to communicate better? Oh, maybe. I mean, my mother didn't go to college until after I was born. And she didn't become a therapist until I was probably about nine or ten and she

used to have appointments in our house at night sometimes after we went to bed or later but she always it never really she was always around which was great for me as a kid and she was obviously doing school and stuff but she still is like a this great advice giver I mean mean, as a mom, she's somebody I call, and I think, what should I do about this? That is pretty good. She biased a little bit. So did she masquerade the therapy as parenting?

Ever, you know what I mean? Like did she mix the two? Yeah, she did. Although my sister and I still, my sister's two years, one of them's two years younger than me. And we still laugh about this timing. And my mom, you know, did therapy for families, troubled sisters, one of them's two years younger than me. And we still laugh about this timing. My mom did therapy for families, troubled teens, their parents.

And when we were in high school, we came home from high school one day, and my mother said, what is this? What is this? And she was holding something up. And she thought we were like, vacated into drugs or something or doing tons of drugs. And I was like, mom, it's the drawstring to my shorts. She has no, even though she dealt with adolescents and all sorts of drugs. And I was like, Mom, it's the drawstring to my shorts. She has no, even though she dealt with adolescents

and all sorts of things, she really was also kind of a, had a little blind spot around that sort of thing. So it was dad around? Dad was around too, yep. My dad worked in New York. Good for you and Irish dad, that's dead. Irish and Greek, Irish in Greek. Yeah, my dad is still is, I mean, he's 80 now,

but when I was growing up, it was like family vacations where he knocked on your door at 6 a.m. and you went out for a, you know, four hour bike ride and then a six hour canoe and then that was, maybe you could rest after that. There's an intensity. The shine's dead shine stat was 80.

Sorry, he was going 80. What are you going in? I'm not. Yeah, go screw yourself, man. Oh, and then I just had the black exhaust on my face. Shine stat up to when he was a kid. And it's been a source of a lot of laughs. One lot of life.

So it was. And then, Jen, you married Greg. Yeah. Right? Sweet Greg. Sweet Greg. Sweet Greg. Chief of Staff to Congressman Joe Kennedy.

He was. And where did you two meet? And do you, same question about your mom now to you and your husband, Greg, and your kids? Do you know, is there debate that goes on in the house in a way that you, you know, because of your background? Oh, between us about politics. Yeah. Sometimes, I mean, we met at the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, which is a very DC,

nerdy, sir, hot, exactly. A hot AF, keep a little around. Exactly. He brought me some graders ice cream, if anybody knows of graders since then. Yes. What? Have it in my place right now. Best ice cream on the planet, okay.

Yeah, it was, that's where it all started. Rama manual takes credit for us getting together. So that's funny, because Greg traveled with him. But yeah, we dated long distance for a couple of years, you know, all the things, but still, Mary, Mary 13, how long have you married? 13 years, 13 years. Wow, that's great. And how old are your kids?

They are five and almost eight. Eight on Thursday. Wow. Oh my God. And you took your daughter to the Taylor Swift concert. I saw her in the screen. I did. I did.

She was at the greatest thing ever. I'm about to do the same thing. Oh, she's a great show. I should know that. I've got a 16 and an 11, two girls. And did they know they're going? Yeah, yeah, and they're fired up. And I'm kind of fired up.

We've got a mutual friend, Willie, that said that it's the greatest concert he's ever been to. And he's our age. So he's been to a lot of shows and been to a lot of great shows. And I don't think he was exaggerating well, right? I mean, that sounded pretty sincere. And so I'm really looking forward to seeing him. Oh, yeah, yeah, he loved it. Yeah, loved it. And when you say fired

up, Jay, you mean you're firing up the chopper to land it so far because you don't like to deal with traffic. I'm not too much. I'm just going to hover actually. I'm going to lower the kids down, but I'm going to stay up. Oh, there it is. Oh, boy. Oh, yeah, we're holding up ice cream to the camera. It's so good. It's really good. I love it. Sean, by the way, we got a pineapple ice cream in the house. Yeah, I'm so sorry. If you looked in Sean's freezer, you'd see He's like ice cream from Ohio. We got ice cream from Indiana. We got ice cream from every state. It's okay. I think he's a greater fan. So there you go. I feel like I like it. Jan, what's going on with the Hollywood correspondence or not Hollywood course? What's it called?

There's something correspondence center. Well, the White House correspondence center. The White House correspondence. That's right. Now, I went there once and I really, we were there. Right. Yeah. We loved it. But has it, has it taken, it's taken a hit lately, right? Well, probably because of the last administration, no one really wanted to go. But like, can we get that back up and running and make it kind of like... Make it cool again. Wait, does it not happen anymore?

I mean, it does, but I want to go back. I think it can come back. I mean, I'm going to put some responsibility down all of you because in order for it to be fun, you've got to bring fun people who are not political. Well, I want to invite us. You can... You're invited. You're invited. Do you all want to come with NBC and MSNBC next year? Yeah, of course we do it.

I'm going to come between two. Okay, let's do it. Yeah, what about the three of us will host it, right? Yeah, how about that? Oh, together. Oh, you'd be so good. Now, the White House Corresponds Association determine if they're going to ask you invite to speak,

but I can't. They're not going to. No, we're not going to ask them. You'd be good. There's better ones. They're do see family doesn't want us to do it. I can't. I can't even work with that. No, we're not gonna ask. You'd be good. There's better ones. We're not gonna. They do seem family doesn't want us to do it. No.

I will say one, I actually have a good relationship with Peter, do you see? But also, this year it was the most normal is not a good day to describe me because it's sort of a weird dinner. But people of all parties, different backgrounds, doing different things, all interacting. That's how it always used to be, and it kind of had a gap when it wasn't like that.

So this should have felt like that, which was kind of nice. And when is it traditionally? I forget. End of April. Or well, sometimes I think it's usually end of April. Okay. I want to know original aspirated career aspirations. Did you always, what were you in?

Jay, sorry, Sean. Jay, how many gummies before the White House correspondent? Oh, well, I'll be really fired up for that one. Oh, boy. Dude, I don't, I, I, this, I never leave the house with a gummy in my body. Okay.

Crazy. No, okay. And I don't have a freezer full of ice cream from every state. Yeah, and we're talking about vitamin gummies, right? We're two, yeah, of course. Of course, obviously. Abby, Sean. Sean.

John. Original career aspirations, earliest memory, like the kind of career you wanted. Like, were this always your trajectory where you were like? No, I have never had a five-year plan. I certainly didn't when I was five. I still don't. So I did. I did. Um, remember 2020 with barber walkers and you know, I remember the music. And when I was a little kid, I just thought that show was great, which is kind of a weird thing. It's really exposing my nerdy side, which is

kind of obvious. But um, it was like more than just murder and mayhem that show. It was like, it was different. It was different totally. Like, yeah, it was good storytelling. I mean, I wouldn't have defined it that way. But I like that. I did say at some point that one, Barbara Walters was ready to retire. Or maybe I said something more heartless like when she died when I was little,

because you know, you're insensitive as a little kid that I wanted her job. Because it seemed fun. And it seemed like she was not insensitive. No, it's just. I mean, if you said it at a funeral, that would be. And then you know, seven is five, six, seven, eight year olds, you're a little, you came out, you're, you're a little off. Well, is that, now you say you don't have a five year plan, but with that, is that

a natural progression of sort of the lane you're in now, as far as media goes? I mean, I, I, I really, the show the show is about three months old, four months old now. It's so good. It's great. Yeah, you're doing such a great job. You're awesome. Every week, we just try to think of who we want to know more about. Right.

And try to have them on as a guest. And what we want to know more about, and then I usually try to spend a couple hours with somebody so that we can do a piece about them that isn't just about the news of the day, but who are they and what are they thinking about? And actually, it's a show I think I would want to watch, but I always thought about what I wanted people to come away with, right?

And I want them to feel like they're learning something about, even about someone, something they didn't know. Maybe it's somebody they didn't think they agreed with. Or whatever. I feel like you'll probably watch a multi-episode series on Is Ron Claim. I bet you could fill a bunch of episodes. I would like to do a bunch of episodes on Ron Claim.

He is just such. I'm who is that? He was a chief, just go ahead. Yeah, go ahead, go ahead. You know it. He was a chief of staff, right? Biden's first chief of staff. He's now, oh yeah, no longer. Right know, he was a chief chief of staff, right? Biden's first chief of staff. He's now, oh, yeah, yeah, no longer.

Yeah, where did he go? He was a fan. He was a fan of smartness. I heard he. Oh, yeah. I've never talked about. I bet he is. And he, and he, he was hugely instrumental in fixing our COVID situation. Yes. Before he became chief of staff, correct? Yeah. Well, this, this was during... This was in the... Transition, figuring out.

Yeah, I mean, he was one of the smartest people I've ever met and he is a person who doesn't really sleep. And so, one of those people who you go to a meeting with and you think, I'm so prepared, I'm ready for all the things and then he's 400 steps ahead of you. Where'd he go now? What's he doing? He's a law firm.

And he has a law firm. And set we've lost, dammit. Yeah, I know. Very nice. How do you, were you privy to confidential information in the White House? Yeah. But the stuff that President knows.

The president knows. He's sorry, sorry. He's trying to work his way towards aliens and UFOs. Oh. Thousands per cent. Thousands per cent. I know, Chris. I know. I knew it. I could split. That was quite person. I know, of course I do. I knew it.

I could, I could split. That was quite a flirtation. I was like, where are you going with this? I don't know if I knew who the back guy is. I was just fucking asking about that. Ah, you have a whole piece of that. You know, I will say I had a lot of access to class of that information, but there's this thing

called need to know. And if you don't need to know, you don't necessarily have access to it. And I wasn't on kind of the alien portfolio, your post that wasn't in my- Do you have any boxes in your bathroom at home? I don't, I don't, I don't have boxes in my bathroom. What can we do about the,

what seems to be a very lightweight, cheesy wood, blue-painted sliding door there for the press room? I'd like, I'd like a switch. Let's switch out something about it. Let's put a glossy blue on it. When you come and you do your tour of Meet the Press and the NBC and MSNBC offices here, we'll take you to, have you been to the briefing room?

You've seen it, right? Have you been in there? At the White House? Yeah. Yes. Okay. It's very sad in there. I know. I think reporters and journalists who are doing amazing work. I mean, it's borderline

disgusting, actually, where they where they work and they do their work. So it needs a whole reboot. Little pocket door. It's so sad that little pocket door. The pocket door. I mean, yeah. Yeah. I know. Now right behind that, right behind that, there seems to be a lot of action right behind that. What do we do? So if you walk out of the briefing room, back into the White House, how far are you from the Oval Office from there? Or was there like a press room right there?

There's the lower, what's called the lower press office where a lot of the spokespeople sit and journalists can come in and out. Then if you walk up a hallway, if you go to the right, and then one more left to write at the Oval Office, you go to the left, you're in the Rose Garden. Yeah, it's pretty small, right? Yeah, the whole White House is not big.

It's very small. I do have a funny story about the pocket door, can I tell you? Yeah, please. The pocket door, in my first year working for Barack Obama, Bill Clinton came to visit and was meeting with him. And they were having this private meeting. It was also during a lot of the holiday parties to a lot of the staff over celebrating Christmas

and holidays they celebrate. And only one or two, maybe 20 to 23 year olds were staffing the press office in case anyone needed anything. And President Obama, President Clinton came down and we're trying to open that pocket door, which locks. Like Jason on the airplane and the dock. Oh, I don't. There you go. They were trying to open it because, and the 23 or 24-year-old said, can I help you with anything? And they said, we have some things we want to say,

and share with the press. Now, the reason this is funny, a number of reasons, but one of them is I think they were envisioning that anytime you open that door, there's a bunch of reporters like sitting waiting. Right, right. Yeah. And really, a lot of them were at the holiday party and other things.

So they had to go run around and say to the reporters, get in your seats, get a pen, put shoes on, come back to the briefing room, those two presidents are coming in. So yeah, the pockets are some history, I don't know if you wanna get rid of it. And then you've got, and then you've got like those,

those stables outside, right? Where the reporters will do their hits from inside there along the driveway, right? The Pebble Beach is what it's called, yeah. Pebble Beach. Why do they call it that? I'm not even sure, but it's kind of a row of cameras.

So you think they have the backdrop of the White House? Yeah. They're like individual little sort of cordoned off tents, right? It's like a swanky hotel pool where you got bunch of bananas, right? Something like that, right? I don't know if it's a swing. Yes, or they stand on boxes in the freezing cold when it's raining and tell you what's happening at the White House or something.

Jen, what's your biggest regret? Can I call you Jen? Sure. What else would you call me? I don't know. What's your biggest, I guess Jennifer? What's your biggest regret, or do you have any that you can share with us

that you were like, I wish I had done this or said this or responded this way. Do you have a- Every day, every day I did that job. Every day I do a show now, every time I end it, and I say, I wish I would have said this, I wish I said that. I have some more bigger than others.

Sure, and when you're working on a show, and we've had that ball as performers and actors and stuff, you have those days where you go, I wish that, but I mean more like because of what you were doing when you were working in government. Yeah. And the stakes are so much higher than, as you now see, But I mean more like because of what you were doing when you were working in government. Yeah.

And the stakes are so much higher than as you now see. Now that you're doing TV, you see how low the stakes really are. When you're actually helping to what you're doing is part of shaping policy and doing all that kind of stuff, did you have any regrets going like, I wish that had gone this way or something like that. Yes. Yeah. Again, you don't have to get specific, but you can just.

Oh, no, I mean, one, I didn't say there was the president's love confidence in the FBI director on my first day. My first day already had a regret. I kind of made fun of the space force unintentionally because it has a kind of name, but it has an important job. Yeah, because it's a clown show. That we did that. Well, the name is absurd, but it has an important job. Yeah, because it's a clown show. Because the name is absurd, but they do an important job.

Now, to the credit of the guy who was running it, he sent me a note and even a pin. It was very nice. But my biggest one is probably the height of COVID when we were, there was a demand for tests and there was a shortage of tests and people asked me a hundred questions about this every day and this was one of those moments of exasperation where it was like the 19th question about it and I said what do you want us to do send them to every American and that's not actually what we ended up doing because it wouldn't have it would have been a waste but we did end up doing a website where people could order tests.

Right, yeah, yeah. And either way, it was just flip in an insensitive and wasn't what I meant at the time. It's just like, I was like, I'm tired of answering this question. But yes, I wish that that would have gone differently, but there's plenty of times. Yeah.

I have one. There's so many things that were shunned done differently. And he sends them to me. Yeah, it's a different, a different flavor of graders, but that sends them to me. Yeah, I was sure a different flavor of graders, but that's for another comment. Yeah, I know, love that. Now, Jen, we can cut this question or whatever you want,

but it's on my list. It's something that I wanted to ask you about. Yeah. We've touched on it before about the massive, you know, the feeling, the sense of division in this country that kind of has never been here before. And being on now both sides, as the press secretary, of division in this country that kind of has never been here before. And being on now both sides as the press secretary and now having your own show, do you think

the press is to what level of blame, if any, is the press to about the division? Do you think they use too many superlatives and try to draw on these kind of, make the biggest wave out of the story and that story just to get viewer like, or do you think the opposite and the press is just doing their job and they're doing a great job? I mean, from having been on both sides of it, but even I think the majority of press

are doing a good job and not just doing a good job but doing kind of following their role, which is to kind of get to the bottom of the truth of things, right? I think the majority of reporters, and even though I've only been on this side for not that long, I've worked with reporters and journalists and media for decades, right? So that has always been my belief. There are bad actors and people who do not behave that way and do not and share

missing. I've been accused of being in that. You correct yourself pretty quickly even when you spread, you know, moments, you have moments. But even for, there's, there are bad actors who spread disinfo, who spread inaccurate information, who escalate things, a lesser violation, I would say, are people who get too freak out about everything, which also is not healthy. Everything is not a crisis. Right. And keep projecting.

Everything is a crisis. People are going to turn off the TV and stop reading the newspaper. Right. So, you can't tell everybody to freak out about everything. That's right. I mean, because, and we even sometimes do segments we call don't freak out because otherwise your nerves are so frayed and you just It's a little boy who cried wolf you don't know when it is actually something that is a crisis and something we should be worried about and not There are there are some people though, you know

I have over two thousand employees in Minnesota, you know who would do all need pillows and you know I'm not freaking out about anything Yeah, pretty good. That is is pretty good that's pretty good you know I see Jen talking on the bus of those liberal leaning Hollywood elite on the podcast you know what is what's your favorite a little bit of this interview that you that that you still have from the White House. Oh my God. Either official or that maybe no one knows that you've taken.

I'm trusting you can tell us. You can tell what I'm taking. Yeah, you can tell what I'm telling. What if I take it from the White House? I didn't really take much. I do have my briefing book. Okay. I don't know that that's a real White House memorabilia.

It's like from my experience. I don't really take anything off the walls, I would say, because that would be bad. It's stealing. Well stealing. Did your office have windows? Yeah. Your office did have windows.

Yeah. There are many that don't, right? Yeah. Were you in the executive building? No, I was in the West Wing. Oh, you were? Yeah. Because you loved that show.? No, I was in the West Wing. Oh, you were. Yeah. Because you loved that show.

Oh, I do. I do love it. Actually, I did not watch the West Wing when it came out. I did watch the whole entire series in 2012 after I left the Obama White House, and it made me go back to government. So I was like a late bloomer of the West Wing, but it brought me back into government.

I need to watch it. I'm sitting there. You've never watched it? I've never seen it. I've never seen it either. It's such a good show. So your show is there, is it complicated? Because I know it's complicated on the nighttime talk shows

about booking guests. There's, you know, well, you can't do this show after this show or you've got to leave a couple of months with. Oh, there's some stuff. So, yeah, I'll bet. And I don't want you, I don't want to get you in trouble or make you uncomfortable. But that is part of the job is trying to negotiate the guests, right? Because certain shows want certain guests and then you have to kind of wait your turn or there's a hierarchy.

I'll bet. Well, I don't know if it's a hierarchy as much as you do have to do legwork, reaching out to people and engaging with them about being on your show. And why, you know, you never tell them like, this is what I'm going to ask you or I won't ask you this, but, you know, sometimes I think everybody is different pitches about the experience of their show. So for me, I would tell people, we're going to give you more time, we want to explore more than just the news of the show. So for me, I would tell people, we're gonna give you more time, we wanna explore more than just the news of the day. I wanna go take a walk with you,

we're cook with you, we're run with you, we're whatever, which is a little bit different than other shows. My shows also newer. So some other shows are like, I've been around for a long time, and my viewership is whatever it is. Everybody has different pitches.

But you gotta do some leg work on it, and do your homework. I mean, I'm always, because I've been all sides of the pitches of things, I always laugh. I mean, I can't even imagine the number of pitches people you all get for, I don't even know. But people send me emails to pitch being on the show that it's like, have you ever watched the show?

I mean, it's hasn't been around that long, but there are like things that have nothing to do with what we do. Well, then wanting the right show. Yeah, yeah. And so around that long, but there are like things that have nothing to do with what we do. Well, then wanting to do the right show. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, it's from well-meaning PR people. That's completely fine.

I respect the profession. But what I've learned is you really have to do the homework and read the 20 articles about a person to say, I thought it was so interesting about this or that or what would have you. So, yeah, you got to do, you got to do, but thinking of course, there's like a little competition about who has who and all that kind of

Sure, but if somebody likes to say Andrew Weisman is like on salary Basically like it was is he told what shows to do or does he get to pick what shows he does He he gets to pick what shows he does but but if people like to watch him all day Oh, he's the best isn't he and you do and you do and he has a dog name in us I've been to his apartment. We did a whole second. That apartment is just shooting. It's right up here.

We rule. We rule. It must be out of there. He always scores highly. We rule. He's got art. You can't even see in the apartment. I've always got the metal stick.

You know, you've got good art if you're not showing it. You know what I'm saying? I mean, the people book people up. they kind of lock them in if they know because the legal story is going to be big for a while. It seems that's my most diplomatic way of saying it. So you get to decide your fill-in when you go on vacation, you get to decide who takes over for you or is that your call from the high up? Yeah, I think so. I think you kind of have a conversation. I haven't missed a show yet.

So I don't know yet. Yeah, all right. Well, you can go on for Oscar I'm not asking for me. Yeah, I'm Jen Saki. You're taking away too much of your time. I we love you like two minutes Yeah, I want to I want to leave with with this Jen because and I really mean it. I want to say thank you for always imbuing the idea and the sense that every human being should be treated equal. And you've always said versions of that throughout your entire career. I don't understand who wouldn't be for that idea that all human beings should be created equal. But so thank you for all of your time. You've always seemed to be a very decent person. Thank you. I believe that. I mean, in a lot of

ways, I don't see myself as a partisan or as a Democrat, even though I've worked in Democratic pugs, I see myself as somebody who believes in kind of morally what is right and not justifying discrimination. And that is what gets me. It came across. Well, you're very exciting to listen to and to watch because of your intellect, and your, some people can have an intellect, but they're kind of old and stodgy, but there's a current, there's a relevance to your sensibility about things

and your way in which that you articulate that is always exciting to listen to. So thank you. Thank you so much. So great to meet you. Huge fan. Happy third birthday. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And good luck to the show. We'll keep watching. Thank you so much. Thanks Jen.

Thank you. Bye. What about that Jen? Jen, I love you. Jen, I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you. You know, anybody with a silent pee, especially, especially with, she should open the sushi plays, right? Jen Saki.

Yeah. Exactly. I saw that coming from a mile away. And Jay, she was on a list for a while, right? She was, yeah, but, you know, I mean, I, I've got a lot of, I don't push for the political folks because I know we try not to get too political on the show, but man, I've got a lot of, I don't push for the political folks because I know we try not to get too political on the show. But man, I've got a long list of folks. I should maybe, I should, I should start a different podcast.

Yeah, one on the side, right? But yeah, I'm, I'm fascinated with all that political stuff, especially now. Well, I just, and I love the way she said, Sean, in sort of, in answering your question at the end when you were talking, but just about this idea that she's not trying to be one way or the other, like in fact, if anything, she just wants to come across as very... Bye, partisan!

Oh, nice, bye! She works for Joe Biden! You still have! Don't organize! You can't organize the pie! Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbaco, Michael Grant Terry, and Rob Umgerf. Smart loss. This episode was recorded on July 11th. Our next episode will be out in a week wherever you listen to podcasts,

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