SmartLess - "John Goodman"

Episode Date: June 3, 2024

Our good man John Goodman joins us this week to explore human feelings, sexy indifference, and, of course, dinner theater. Jump into your rented Corvette and come along for the ride… on an all-new SmartLess.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hi, I'm John Goodman, Grizzled Show Business Veteran, and you're listening to Smartless. I was almost just a little bit late today because I may have just had like one of my first sessions, definitely first half dozen. You can't count them on one hand the amount of times I've gone on Instagram. You guys are familiar with this? Yes, I've heard of this. Oh my God, this is so good. This is my dream come true, you describing Instagram. So yes, so I'm looking, watching a video on it, right?

It's a small... Keep going, keep going. Funny stuff is happening, people are falling and hurting themselves. And then my thumb accidentally hits the screen and it disappears, goes up, and there's another one right underneath it. That's right. It's similar, but then, I don't know,

so I did it again and then I'm like, then it's like some sort of a sports thing and then someone's selling me something. Anyway, I don't think it's Instamatic or instantaneous. I think it's insta-matic or instantaneous. I think it's insta-gram. Instagram. And you don't usually go on there? What is it? You don't usually go on there. What is it? Can I just, was that just you describing using Instagram? Yeah, I think so you know what I'm talking about. You've been there.

So you really don't go on Well, we're not alone. You don't usually go on there, Jason. No, but I get it now. Pete, you can sit there and I did what I thought was gonna be five minutes and all of a sudden my alarm went off to get to the computer to start this. I was like, oh, fuck, good thing I set an alarm.

It's the demise of our whole institution. It's everything. Now, Sean and I send each other videos that we think are funny. Yes. And it's really easy to do. Would you like in on that? And that's a funny way to communicate as well. Oh, so if I see something on Instagram that I like,

I could sort of like send that to you. There's like a little thing I can click. There's an icon there and you can hit it. And then if we're all following each other, you can send it to one of us and then we go like, uh-huh, that's so funny because it's true or whatever. Right, or yeah, or saw it, thanks old man. Yeah, exactly.

Wait, so now we can send you videos and you'll actually watch them? Yes, I think I will. I might not, oh, but you know what I don't do is if you send me a video that when I click on it says, oh, the person whose video this is will know that you are watching it, then I don't click on those.

What does that mean? Does that mean the person's a private? Nobody knows what you're looking at unless you like it. No, like when Amanda sends me something and I gotta click, I have to say that it's, they're gonna see that it's me. No, that's just a phone call. Oh.

I don't know, but this is, listen, this stuff, this is... And it's all here on one of these. You guys have one of these phones? This is, uh, with the pictures on the front of it? This is the beginning of the end. This is it. Because I just got rid of the one that closes, you know. It kind of looks like a Pac-Man. By the way, this is our generation equivalent of when our dads used to say,

I saw this thing in the paper today. Or on the TV. Right. On the TV. Wait, that was a picture of Maple, and I saw her for her birthday. I saw Maple last night. Look at that. She just turned 12.

I know. Scotty and I got her some beads that she can wear on her wrist, and we got her a little leather-bound thing that she can draw in, because she's such a good drawer. She's incredible. She's amazing. She's an amazing artist. And, and an incredible athlete. Yes, amazing.

She's so good. She's been kicking ass. They beat another big team, you know, that you were there at the game. She told me who they beat the other night, and I was like, no way. No, I know. It's crazy. The Celtics. Did I already bore you guys with the fact that it was the boss in Celtics? Yeah, so she's in sixth grade and she plays on the boys team because she's such a badass. It's the first time in the history of the school that a girl's ever played

on the boys team. It's so rad. I know. I just, I love her. It's so wild, Jason. It's nighttime. It's seven o'clock. Are you, you're getting sleepy or? Just about, you know, I had a long day of work, but this is the highlight of my day. Look at you two, you know?

Please don't fuck it up with a shit guest, Arnett. You know what, if this is a terrible, let's just end it here. I can't wait, I'm so glad. I can't wait for you to eat this shit. You're eating these words, you're moments away from eating, you're gonna be so embarrassed. You're gonna be so embarrassed. You're gonna be, you're gonna bow down

to the power of this dude. Because- Want one of these first? Let's do a dad joke first and then we're gonna make him bow down. One dad joke, go ahead, Sean. It's been too long already. I can't find my Gone In 60 Seconds DVD.

It was here a minute ago. Okay, all right, so here we go. We've wasted this person's time and he deserves so much more respect than that. Well, we'll see. And Jason, I am so sad because this is a guy who's been doing it for a long time at the highest level. He's been nominated for, I think he's won an Emmy nominated for seven times Golden Globe nominated four times, like every, he's been just nominated and won everything. We just apologize now. I'll just start with an apology. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no But like really until you're fired up to it's making influence on my life Yeah, and you guys know because I have on the show used them consistently as

The gold standard I talked about people being being okay being in bad movies But always being good and I he is always my example as you guys know of the guy who's never turned into bad Performance and but it's been a lot of bad movies We got one of the things that I love about him most that he and I have in common is that he said, you guys lost to a bunch of fucking nerds. Guys, it's the all time champ for me is John Goodman. Oh, I'm so sorry, Mr. Goodman. Hi, fellas.

I can't follow that. Johnny Goodman. Well done follow that. Johnny Goodman. Well done, Will. Mr. John Goodman. By the way, every word he just said is true. Every single thing you've ever done is phenomenal. I agree. Every performance.

There's not a dud in the. Ah, ah, ah. It's true. Yeah. And always associated with good people. He does reference you quite a bit as the bar to jump over. It is true. John, at risk of embarrassing you further,

what a pleasure to meet you, and thank you for coming and doing this and joining us. No, my pleasure, thank you. It's America's favorite podcast. Thank you for welcoming me into your pod. This is cool. Well, I do use that, you often, and I'm sorry, again, at risk of embarrassing you,

as the sort of the the gold standard of someone who's always good and never turns into bad performance and I've been such a fan of yours for such a long time and you've done so many different things and you've crossed you've done comedy in you know you've done sitcoms multiple really fantastic sitcoms like the old-school standard like like multi cams like with an audience that is just and to do that pull it off Well, sorry Sean to pull it off well Best job in the world the best job in the world, but then you've had an incredible career in film But you started in theater is where I'm driving it

This is where we'll driving at. Oh, here comes Sean. Here comes John. This is where Will and I just sit back. So I want to hear about how, what that start was like for you, Mr. Goodman, because I don't know the story and how you got, and what your journey was. I had nowhere else to go. Excellent, next question. I sabotaged my own education.

The only time I got lit up was doing plays, and I decided to make that my major since I was inches from being thrown out of school. Really? Everything took off after that, and as soon as I found out how wonderful it can be, then I started to want to learn history, English, whatever I needed to pull out of my bag of tricks

when performing a role. Oh wow, so that you could stay in school and stay a part of the theater department. Yeah. Oh wow. That's pretty cool. Where was that? Where was that?

So you were in school, were you in Missouri? Is that right? It was called Southwest Missouri State University. Now it's called Missouri State University. But then you moved to New York. Is that true? Is that how that went? That is true.

That took the Amtrak from St. Louis to New York in August of 1975. Holy shit. And did you have a destiny, other than the city, were you like, I'm gonna go do this, or were you just like, I'm rolling the dice here? I was a frightened hick. The main thing I wanted to do was take classes

with Uta Hagen and get into the actor's studio and learn some more. And did you get in there? I did not, I left about a month and a half later doing a non-equity dinner theater version of 1776. What dinner theater? The Lacomedia Dinner Playhouse in Springboro, Ohio. I worked at Pheasant Run Dinner Theater in St. Charles, Illinois. Oh, okay. What was your first-ever comedy and dinner playhouse in Springboro, Ohio?

I worked at Pheasant Run Dinner Theater in St. Charles, Illinois. Oh, okay. Yeah, which I just found out Ben Stiller's parents did summer stock there. Oh, right, yeah. Summer chicken stock, I guess, because it's dinner theater.

There we go. So dinner theater is what it sounds like, correct? You sit there, you're at your tables, and they serve you the whole thing while the play's going on, and the actors are... How dare they make noise. Well, this is gonna say... Oh, you got the glasses clanking in the porch door. Yeah, and the fucking...

People getting lit. Yeah, getting lit, and whistling the waiter over because the shit's not right, and... And they put the tables right up to the edge of the stage. So then I was playing Tommy Gilles in the Music Man and I was doing something, fell right on top of one of the tables and had to keep going.

It was so ridiculous. For the God. Just living your dream with a bunch of pasta sauce in your pants. My buddy Hackett. I mean, was there ever a time when you're on stage and you're like, oh man, that smells pretty good down there. You got primer.

I couldn't get hired for their next shows, but my girlfriend did. So I went down there just to get out of New York and work as a waiter in the dinner theater. Wow, that's amazing. For the summer, but I cut the grass. I did all kinds of odd jobs and made enough money to pay off my student loans that summer.

Wow. So, sorry, Sean, so New York was a total wipeout, and so you... No, not at all. I just, I left, it was a horrible winter, and I was broke, and I couldn't get arrested as a waiter or anything else. I got one night's work as a bouncer at a club called the Adam's Apple

and they had this German head bouncer who was telling us how to rip guys' mouths open when you got their head down on the curve and then you stomp the back of their head and their teeth come out. Jesus. Sure. I Jesus, of course. Sure. I said, check please.

Yeah, I had to show up the next day. So then where did you go at that? That's the only job I had in the city. So then it does sound like New York, it wasn't really bearing a lot of fruit. Well, it was also, at the time, it was Ford to City, drop dead, they were defaulting on their loans. The City was just going to hell.

The subways were terrifying, the graffiti, all the stuff. And I was a kid from the suburbs. But I was determined to live there because I dug it. So you left for a little bit, went to Ohio, and then you came back to New York? Yeah, I came back and then I got my card about like a month after that. Your equity card or SAG card?

Yeah, my equity card doing a bus and truck of the Robber Bridegroom. Oh my God, that is so, I know that. And so how old were you? You were about 20? What, 20? Yeah, 23, 24. Any other options available to you at that moment,

either practically or just sort of emotionally? Like were you attracted to anything else? Could you have taken a fork in the road and been something else at that moment? No, I had... The way I look back on it now, it unfolds itself like it was a calling. Yeah. I mean, I used to get kicked out of,

when I'd get kicked out of a class, they'd send me to the library and I would sit there and read plays. And I'm like, you know, 14, 15 years old. I have no idea why. Yeah. Was anybody in your family doing that? Like was it, no.

My brother was a fan of theater, he's a bit older than me. And we'd go into Clayton, Missouri, pick up the New York Times every Sunday, literally, weighed a ton back then. And I would go to the Arts and Leisure, basically to look at the Hirschfield cartoons. And then I'd just start following what shows were up. I had no idea why.

You just enjoyed it. Yeah. Why were you getting kicked out of class? Were you just running your mouth and you wanted to perform and get attention? I had to have attention. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, learning was, learning bad, attention good. Yeah, I had the have attention. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, learning was, learning bad, attention good.

Yeah, I had the same problem. So then, John, so then New York, you stuck it out there and things really started to pick up traction or was the big break out in Los Angeles or somewhere in between? I had a series of little breaks. When I got back from the tour, I had one time, I had a bunch of pictures,

you know, resumes, stapled them all together, and in desperation I was sending them out to theaters. One guy at Great Advertising picked up my picture, called me in, I got the gig, and he set me up with commercial agents. And then I couldn't not get him for some reason. I just, I've been goofing off. I've been goofing on him my whole life.

Well, it's also kind of like the, like I speak on behalf of the four of us. If you can't do anything else, you have to make this work. Yeah. You know what I mean? You gotta pay the bills at least. Yeah. But by that time I was hanging out with a lot of like real, this work. Yeah. You know what I mean? And you gotta pay the bills at least. Yeah. So it's probably.

By that time I was hanging out with a lot of real actors at a place up on the west side and I got to hate myself for doing commercials. I was all screwed up and I was really getting into drinking at the time. And I resented doing commercials because other guys were doing what I thought was real work.

Right. So I didn't care. I think that's why I got so many of them. Right, right, right. And I got a lot of them. And in defense of commercials, I do like commercials. I think Stanley Kubrick said they're the only form of the medium that you can actually acquire perfection

because they're just 30 seconds and they're very intricately of the medium where you can actually acquire perfection because they're just 30 seconds and they're very intricately made nowadays. Especially. The lighting alone, man, would take forever to set up and it had to be just right and the product just right. And we will be right back. Thank you to Macy's for supporting this episode of Smart List.

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to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Take a moment. Visit betterhelp.com slash smartlis today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com slash smartlis. All right, back to the show. John, you had what Jason, you were getting so many what Jason likes to call you had at that time, it seems to me you had what Jason, you were getting so many, what Jason likes to call you had at that time, it seems to me you had a sexy indifference.

You didn't care, you didn't go in there, you didn't want it too bad, and then you just kept getting him, and I know that that feeling, especially when you're younger, I remember thinking like, man, I'm not gonna read, and my first agent being like, it's pilot season, you're gonna read for some sitcoms.

I'm like, sitcoms? How dare you? Are you out of your mind? I'll never do it. I'm sorry, I'm an artist. Yeah, and then all of a sudden I'm like so broke, and I'm like, fuck, I'll read for anything, please. You know what I mean?

Right. You know what though, Roseanne was so like, so theater. It was, a lot of sitcoms don't feel like theater and a lot of them do, which is what they should feel like. And Roseanne, to me, anytime I watched it, it was like, oh, I'm in New York watching a play every single time. That's a good point.

Yeah. It was different for the time because the antidote to a lot of things like Dallas and Dynasty and all these rich folk things. And I think we hit a nerve. I know my nerves were beat. Does it go that far back? When was the, what was the year the pilot?

1987 I think, the pilot. Holy shit. I think I graduated or tried to graduate high school that year. I want to get to, I wanted to get to Roseanne because I really think, I mean, when you guys were doing it at its best, it was just unrivaled.

I watched it every week. I was such a massive fan of what you guys did, all the work, the writing, everything about it, I thought was so good. How did that come into your orbit, John, at the time? Where were you at when that came around and you read that? I was out here for something. In LA?

Yeah, it was either a movie or a commercial. And I got hip and ran into Corvette. I thought I was hot shit. I had a couple of bucks and I remember going to the audition in that Corvette. And I walked in, I didn't know much about her. I'd seen her in some Pizza Hut commercials. I'd seen a couple of clips and she was really good

like on the Carson show. And I walked in, it was very friendly and I read and I just, I knew I had the gig. Yeah. I just. Did you want that gig? Yeah. Where were you in your career at that point?

I was living out of suitcases all the time because I was just starting to get films. Yeah. Like starting in 1985, I was a book on a lot of movies. That was after Revenge of the Nerds. Yeah, that was shot in 83. Yeah. Yeah, that was shot in 83. When did you start your incredible collaboration with the Coen Brothers?

Was that during the run of Roseanne or was it after? No, it was before. It was in 1985. I just got a lead in a film that David Byrne directed. Really? Yeah, it was called True Stories. It's really interesting looking. Oh yeah, fuck, I wanna see that. And I was just really getting, you know, I'd show up,

I'd go to Daly's, because I wanted to. What, when you were working with the Collins? Or with David Byrne? No, just before that, with David Byrne. And I was really getting into films. I wasn't as scared as I was. And I got called, I was in New York

on a week off or something, anyway, I was in New York, they called me in for Raising Arizona. And we just sat down and goofed around for about an hour. Really? That was the audition. And then I read and left. I bet you felt like you got it. No, I didn't know but I never had a. But you sit in an office for an hour, I bet you felt like you got it. No, I didn't know but I'd never had a.

But you sit in an office for an hour, like you gotta feel like you got something there. We never, I never had a more fun audition before or since, we just sat and goofed around. Yeah, I was gonna say we were on the same level humor wise but those guys are geniuses. Yeah, they are. No kidding. Yeah, they are. No kidding.

Yeah, but I can't imagine, well, yes, I can't imagine. I was gonna say that, did they let you contribute once you got in there and really started, I mean, that character is so specific, John. I mean, what an incredible job you did with that character. I have to assume that you augmented that dialogue a little bit or no? They're pretty specific, right?

I wouldn't know how to augment any better than they wrote it. We had rehearsal time on Lebowski. So by the time we shot, we were in pretty good shape with the dialogue and that's why a lot of people asked me if it was improvised. Just so conversational. Because we were facile with it.

What was that process like making that? I mean, the big Lebowski obviously is held up as one of the all-time greats. One of my favorites. It was just lovely. And it's just a great time, great hang. Do you remember reading that script the first time? Yeah.

And did you know Steve and Jeff beforehand? No. Or was the chemistry just great luck? Great luck. Yeah. Isn't that wild? Kismet, man. And everybody hit it off.

So you read that, they send you that script and you're like what? You're like, holy shit. Did they write it for you? I'll bet they did. Oh, Lebowski, yeah. Yeah. That and Barton Fink.

Yeah. And the last one I did for him. Which was the last one? Inside Lewin Davis. Yeah. Beautiful movie. A little bit more of a serious turn. Yeah, it was cool.

Yeah. Talk about that. I mean, think about the breadth of characters that you played with them at the helm as writer-directors and all with such different tones, too. What is that shift like, that dynamic working with them on films that have such a hugely vastly different tone to them. They're such film fans and magpies for popular culture that just throw in and everything and it works. They've got great ears for people's dialogue, for human speech. Will worked with Barry Sonnenfeld.

I was about to bring up Barry. I love Barry. We've had him on this show and I've been friends with Barry for a number of years and I worked with him a couple of times and he's, you obviously worked with him on a bunch of great films, Jay, you mentioned, I mean, and also very different. Raising Arizona, Miller's Crossing were both Barry films.

Again, so totally different from the script and the way they looked. Yeah. And fantastic. He talked about his first, what was his first? Oh, well, Blood Simple. Yeah, Blood Simple. Blood Simple was the first.

Yeah. And he claims that they hired him because he had a camera. Yeah, I believe that. But back then they were broke and they would just know what they wanted and they'd invent ways to do it. Like these guys from the 20s, they just if they had a problem they'd solve it and strap a camera on a board and run with it. Did you see that progression? Have you seen that evolution? Because you've been with them for so long, and they might say the same about you, the evolution of them as filmmakers from Raising Arizona to Lou and Dave,

I mean, it must be pretty significant. Yeah, more of a shortcut than anything else. The more experience they get, the easier it gets. The less they need to say, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. John, moving forward in your career and your life, do you still have the fire in your belly that you had when you were a kid to just kind of pursue,

keep going, challenging yourself? It's much different now. Yeah, in what way? Because I feel like I'm still learning. The last couple of years have been goofy for me because I've been trying to be good and it doesn't work that way. Planning things way too much and at the root of that

was the fear of losing trust in myself. So I overcompensated by working way too hard and I've just kind of come out of that in the last year or so and it's, and there's so much to learn. Yeah, how did you manage to come out of that? Frankly, having a nervous breakdown. No, it was bad with everything.

And it just, finally, yeah, it just purged out of me. I went to the therapist one day, and then for the rest of the day it was horrible. Nothing worked. I woke up the next day and I'm, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. This is a sheriff's dance to run my head, but it just felt a lot better.

You gotta be relaxed when you do stuff, and open and listen. Do you find that, I'm finding that the older I get, the smarter I get, the smarter I get, the smarter we all get, but with the added intelligence or observational skills, comes the burden of trying to manage all of the new stuff that you're absorbing and learning.

Yeah, there's something brilliant about staying ignorant. Yeah, it just keeps complicating stuff and making things more dynamic and more fun, but it's more of a challenge and you gotta keep up. You have to be ready to listen to yourself. You have to be relaxed. Hard. For me, that was the key.

I already know this stuff. And that's the one thing I didn't trust myself about. I didn't make it to Stella Adler. I didn't trust myself about. I didn't make it to Stella Adler, I didn't make it to Udahagan. I got into the studio, but I've never been there. I felt I didn't have a base for everything. And it finally dawned on me, I know this stuff. And I've been doing this for 50 years. It's like, you know it. And it's there if you listen for it,

if you let it come to you, it's boom. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Did it start to feel like maybe you weren't, like you weren't doing anything, and then you realized, well, that's because I'm just natural at it and I do know all this stuff,

and I've just found sometimes if I'm so comfortable in a character, I can sometimes feel like, oh, I'm just kind of phoning this in, I'm just walking this through, and then you feel like, oh, then maybe I should play this scene a little, I should act a little harder, you know? And then it feels like, well, now I'm really working today. But then you kind of might, you might watch playback

or just even hear your own voice and be like, no, God, this isn't working, this feels like shit. And then you go back to just doing it normally and it's like, no, that's great, that's fine. I know this stuff and you just happen to be natural at it. I wonder if that's how like athletes feel when they just, they're just playing, they're just in it, you know? That's what it is, just playing.

Yeah. And listening. Do you find as you're changing as a person that it changes the kinds of roles that you look to do since what we do is kind of an exercise in personal exploration we happen to get paid for? I don't know. I've been doing the same role for the last,

same two roles. No, you haven't. For the last like four or five years. Yeah. And I haven't really had much of a chance to do everything else. Cause you've been doing the Connors, you're talking about the Connors. Yeah, the Connors and the righteous gemstones.

Yeah, it's also, John, it's also wild to hear you talk about whatever, whether I've read about stuff that you've been struggling with and you're so nice to be open about your journey, just being more comfortable in your own skin and getting to know yourself as Jason said, as we get older, that it's always so surprising and it's never not surprising to look at you,

somebody I've always admired, and is like, wow, that's such a cool career, I'd love to have his career. Like, amazing actor, everything he does, to hear somebody like you speak publicly about whatever your issue is, whatever you're going through, is really kind of eye-opening,

because from over here, it's like, oh, he's got this career of a lifetime. And it's always so surprising and it shouldn't be. And it's also so helpful to me. Because the same goes for me as far as my admiration for you. But it makes me feel a lot better about all the human feelings I have that are sometimes challenging.

It's like, you know, it's silly that we all need a reminder that everybody's human, but it's really nice to hear. So thank you for sharing all this. My pleasure. It's just kind of to help myself and maybe help somebody else. But yeah, I've been clean about 16 years now. And that's great. The last 16 years I've had clean about 16 years now.

And the last 16 years I've had to grow a lot into my normal age and it's been a lot, but I'm glad I did it. Oh, that's great. John, you know, the last time I saw you, I was gonna say this when you first popped on on the show today, but the last time I saw you was Saturday Night Live when I hosted in 2001

at the after party, you came, everybody was partying, and you walked in and pulled your pants down and walked all the way across the entire room and everybody was dying laughing. I was like, is that John Goodman with his pants down? I don't remember that. That's longer than 16 years ago. I'm cursed with a bad memory like that.

I will remember stuff like that, but this one. Yeah, no, believe me, the 300 people that were there remember it. Oh my God. It was great. So you're gonna- You were so good on that show too. There's gonna be a lot of stuff missing

from your autobiography because of your ability to recall some of the stuff. I get the same problem. I get to pad it with blank pages. Draw your own conclusions and Cliffy the Clown. We'll be right back. We're brought to you in part by ZipRecruiter. Many of us have heard the famous quote by Abraham Lincoln that says,

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is a registered broker dealer. And now back to the show. I remember seeing you on SNL. It was, I think, Amy, my ex-wife's first year on the show and you hosted. And I just stayed very far away. I remember seeing you at the after party and being like, oh my God.

Yeah, I hit it off with her from Jump. Yeah, yeah. It just, hers, she and Seth wrote a bit and we did it. I thought it was a brilliant bit. But I just did, I really dug her. Yeah, she's cool. It made me feel welcome. Well, you, yeah, yeah, and you were so good.

You had such a facility for that. You could have been an all-time great cast member for sure. Yeah, I don't know how to do improv, but. No, but you don't need to know. I auditioned for it in 1980 when everybody quit. You did? And they brought the new cast on. No way. Did you really?

Yeah. You know who got it? Laurie Metcalf. Oh, wow. But she was, I don't think she ever went on air. I don't know what happened, but she was one of the people they picked. Oh, wow. I didn't know that. Oh, it was horrible. It was open calls, and they had guys walking around in Blues Brothers costumes, like, by the score.

It was a hideous dream. No way. A desperation flop sweat. Oh, fuck, man. So would that have been a job that you would have really, really loved, being a part of that cast? That was my... That used to be my favorite thing

to do every year. I'd get so goddamn scared and just hit the door and walk onto the floor. It was great, man. I was a big fan of the national lampoon when I was in college. And when I saw a lot of the writing staff from Saturday Night Live, I was really intrigued. And I saw a lot of the writing staff from Saturday Night Live,

I was really intrigued. And it was a hit to me. I remember parties used to stop when it had come on and people would watch television. For sure. Oh yeah, that's a good point. It was a big deal. Who were your big kind of idols when you were a kid,

when you went and did acting or comedy or anything? Like who were you like? Well, I'm almost ashamed to say Brando. Why, that's great. Yeah, I know a lot of people my age will say that. He just never seen anything like him. And I didn't really pay that much attention to movies. I liked him.

What was the thing that was distractingly different about him per the style that was around right then? He looked like he was making it up. Right. And it's this 19, he had a 1950, 51, looked more like a guy, incredibly good looking guy that walked off the street. Right, so the style was much more sort of...

It was presentational. Broad, yeah, presentational back before that, right? It was a much bigger thing. It's a style. He and Montgomery Clift and all those guys, right? He got more naturalistic. Montgomery Clift was another icebreaker. He was one of my idols too, even though he's a little before my time

I he was one of the guys I loved him I'm pretty old. Yeah, I think people are slightly the kids today Are kind of sliding away from that that stuff that I was raised with the Group theater everything was based from that, and the Stanislavskiites, and then the sects that developed among the acting teachers. It seems like people are getting away from that now. But did you wanna get into comedy where you're like, okay, I'm gonna be, I think that I have,

I'm quite adept at comedy. Did you know that? Was that something that you were like? I was good at comedy in the classroom and when I thought it was still cute to mug. Right. Yeah. No, it has to be necessarily really structured

comedy play, as opposed to like improv, but there are rules there too and it has its own structure. And it can be terribly hard, but when it's easy, man, it flies and there's nothing like it. I have to, John, a lot of the times on this show. I thought Sean was gonna say, I have to go, guys. I thought this was Sean's words. I'm going right now.

No, I have to. Wait a minute, almost there. I am presently going. It's warm. No, I have to ask if you have any tragic theater stories like mine falling on the table at the dinner table, only because I love them because they're so shocking to me.

The worst thing that ever happened to me was in, well, two things happened in the show. I was doing a musical in 1985 on Broadway and I was doing it for a while. Which one, do you remember? Yeah, Big River. And I was supposed to come out and surprise my son Huckleberry Finn.

And before, I was standing behind this flat, waiting to go on, and I couldn't remember my first line. And I panicked. Oh God. And I panicked. And I just wouldn't come, and I was, the queue was there, and I was gonna step out and say, ladies and gentlemen, I'm so sorry, I can't.

And the line popped into my head. But that happened for four nights straight. Yeah, yeah. Wait, did the line pop in your head once you stepped onto stage or before you did? Yeah, as soon as I opened my mouth. Isn't that amazing how that went? Isn't it amazing how that happened?

Yeah. And it's wild. It's right there, and I don't know why it happened. And the second was, my son was supposed to hit me, Huck Finn was supposed to hit me in the jaw with a stool, a three-legged stool, and one night I forgot to... Turn.

I forgot to put my hand up and throw my head back, and I caught it, and it drove my jaw back into my head, it knocked me out, and I got up and finished the show. No, I finished my scene and I had to go down the street to the hospital. No way. Wow. You didn't have a broken jaw, did you?

No. No, no. No, but it was touch and go for about five days there when I didn't show up. Understudy started getting stretched out. Yeah. Let him have it for a while. Yeah, this was a performance after, you just took like 10 feet, stepped 10 feet away.

So it was really far away. No, but I understand that thing about the line. I was doing Hairspray Live on NBC. This is like five years ago, eight years ago, I remember. And it's live in front of the whole country and I'm playing Mr. Pinky or something like that. And it's that sensation and I rehearsed and rehearsed and now I'm behind the door,

it's live in front of the country and it's a big deal. And I opened the doors and I had the sensation, I think it was Marty Short and Harvey Fierstein or something like that, and I said in my head, am I supposed to be here right now? I think I may have entered too early, all in the span of half of a second. Oh yeah, you could put a whole dictionary

in that half a second. Totally, so I'm sitting there and I turn to him and I mouth the first line instead of singing it and it looks like the sound was cut out. And so I was. That's perfect. That's horrible. Is that a technical glitch at the top of my number?

What a fucking disaster. It was a disaster, it was a panic inside was so unbelievable that then I started singing the second line, it was just awful. It was awful. It was terrible. How did it turn out? We also had, I think the first or second preview

of the front page did about five or six years ago. And there were guys that came in, sat in the front row, put their drinks on the stage and their feet up there, and then one guy got up and started going, I love you John Goodman, I love you John Goodman, I love, and I go, I'll just not say anything. Please make, and he got up, he walked out of the theater. That was a little frightening.

No kidding. There was two girls who can do this show called An Act of God and there's these two girls that were bombed out of it. No, I don't think so, this time. Yeah, no, I saw it, I saw it, the Amundsen. Oh, that's right. They were bombed out of their minds

and from the second I walked out, they were screaming like, I love you, I love the second I walked out, they were screaming like, I love you, oh my God, I love you, in front of everybody. Everybody was quiet. Chuck. Yeah, exactly. Screaming, and so I was like, they're not only drunk, I think they're on drugs or something.

And I think I've told this story on the show before. But they were so gone, in my head, while I'm talking in my head, I'm like, I think I have to stop the show. And so I went, I go, excuse me a second, I walked off stage, this is on Broadway, told the stage manager, you gotta get the two girls out of there.

They're not moving, they're clapping and laughing at every word. Wait, wasn't this the one man show? Yes, this is a one man show. So you walked off the stage. Walked off stage. Left stage empty. Left stage, yeah, left the stage empty. The security guards came down, removed them,

the whole audience clapped. I walked on and I said, and that's the power of God. Because I was playing God. And I just kept going. Oh, that's pretty good. But it's awful, and people just don't know how to behave in the theater, is the moral of the story. because I was playing God. And I just kept going. But it's awful and people just don't know how to behave in the theater, is the moral of the story.

It's getting worse too. It is getting worse. It is getting worse. Oh man, John Goodman, we have taken up way too much of your time, man. Just honestly from a far, from very afar, just been such an admirer and just a complete fan of yours.

I am a huge fan of you guys as well. Great, yeah, okay, I'm gonna cut it short there, but thank you. I really, really appreciate you hanging out with us for an hour. I was terrified at the beginning of this. Oh man. Really? You guys are so good.

Again, that just makes us feel incredible that we're even on your radar, let alone, you know. So, thank you. Ding-dongs, you know. Ding-dongs with a wifi connection. Jason's in New York with a wifi connection in a rented apartment, he's just starting a job. Sean's in Hancock Park facing away from his TV. I can hear somebody vacuuming above me. I'm like, what, this starting a job. Sean's in Hancock Park, facing away from his TV.

I can hear somebody vacuuming above me. I'm like, what? This is a joke. We're a bunch of clowns. So thank you for doing that. The great John Goodman. Thank you, my friend. What an honor.

Thank you for the invite, man. It's been wonderful. Anytime. Thank you. Thanks, pal. That was fantastic. Thank you, John, very much. Adios. Thank you, thank you. Thanks, Patrick. That was fantastic. Thank you, John, very much. That was John Goodman.

That's John Goodman. The great, the gold standard, as I said. The gold standard. And maybe the best, most classical name in the history of all names. I wonder, what is his middle name? Is it equally classic, an American, like a Frank or something like that? John Frank Goodman. Steven actually, I think it's Steven. Yeah, there you go, that works.

Is it really? John Steven Goodman. That was a fantastic get there, Will. I set myself up for that and got a real beat down. He's just. How about he's killing it on the Connors too? Isn't the Connors still running like? We didn't even get a chance, I wanna get a, so he does the Roseanne. He's just... How about he's killing it on the Conners too? Isn't the Conners still running like... We didn't even get a chance.

I wanna get to the... So he does the Roseanne. He's doing two television series right now. They do it like 12 years. Roseanne's like 263 episodes or something, right? And then he goes, and now they've done almost 100 episodes of the Conners. Unbelievable.

Yeah, and in that time, he's made like 10 movies with the Coen brothers and amongst others You know and he's just been in like the guy's just done it all I'm not gonna cry. I'm sorry. I just had a little bit of gas. It's just gas But like this is to be him and to sustain all that through all like I don't know whatever he's it just means you're great Yeah, he's just got it. He is great, and he has been great for his whole career, and has stayed employed his whole career. I guarantee you this, I bet you if you go back

and you find some of those early commercials, you watch them and you're like, this guy's great. By the way, I have seen those early commercials, when he was really young. I think it was like a burger commercial or something, and you're like, oh yeah, that guy's great. And he's great, right? But Revenge of the Nerds was like one of the first four or five things he did.

And he was like, you watch that movie and you go, oh, you feel like that guy had been around forever. Exactly, he feels iconic. He feels iconic and it's one of his first films. And you're like, oh, that's John Goodman. I don't know why I remember the one line from Roseanne. I don't know why I remember this. They were on vacation and they got in an argument

and they were like in the Bahamas or something. And Roseanne goes, you know what, Dan? We should have gone on separate vacations. I go to the Bahamas and you go to hell. And I was like, oh my God. And I was like, I can't believe they just said that. I was so young, I was like, I can't believe they said that on TV.

That's a great light. That was produced by the great Tom Warner. And produced by the great, and the Connors still produced by the great Tom Warner, our friend and chairman of Liverpool Football Club. And pretty strong aid handicap, maybe? Is he? I'm trying to think. He's a good golfer. He's not to be underestimated.

I wanted to say happy birthday to our buddy Billy Hogan over there at Liverpool Football Club. I think we missed it. Did you want to sing to him right now? Because Sean and I would love to sign off first, if that's okay. Oh, before I do it? If you're gonna be singing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just before you start singing. But you know I always do like a classic,

it's sort of like an homage to Marilyn Monroe. I always do that. Real classic. No, don't lift up your sweatpants for him. Yeah. Ha, ha, ha, ha. Lift up your sweatpants for him. Yeah. Ah.

Ah. Ah. Ah. Ah. Ah. Ah. So I'm trying to think up a by. Oh.

Let me think about that one. Are we supposed to, you know what, here's what I would like. And it was, two things. The first one was confirmed, or re-suggested by the great Justin Theroux earlier today. We need to have some live questions from the fans, or at least read a question online.

We are gonna maybe do something like that, but go ahead. I would like also in that same folder some suggestions for buys from our listeners. I'm sure they would come up with these, why don't they ever use this word? First of do have I do have a buy that I was I was getting to but I want to say two things about I think that you're right JB I think that's a good idea yeah and but I will also say this we are not taking fucking creative suggestions from fucking Justin Theroux.

You know what you're right. So this guy. Every time I see him he says the same you know what? You're right. So fucking keep him... Every time I say he says the same, you know what you guys ought to do? I'm like, oh, shut the fuck up. I'll tell you how to cut your sleeves off. How about this? Yeah. Yeah. Fuck you, Justin! Into the nose, out through the mouth.

Yeah, fuck you, Thoreau! You fucking fuck! Bye. On three, no, on three, fuck you, Thoreau. Are you ready? One, two, three. Fuck you, bro! Anyway guys, I did get some new bye-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee-ee- SmartLess is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Michael Grant Terry, Rob Armjarve, and Bennett Barberko. If you like SmartLess, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus

in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondry.com slash survey. Scammers are best known for living the high life until they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit once they're finally caught. I'm Saatchi Cole. And I'm Sarah Hagge. And we're the host of Scamfluencers, a weekly podcast from Wondery that takes you along the twists and turns of some of the most infamous scams of all time, the impact on victims and what's left once the facade falls away. We've covered stories like a Shark Tank certified entrepreneur who left the show with

an investment but soon faced mounting bills, an active lawsuit filed by Larry King, and no real product to push. He then began to prey on vulnerable women instead, selling the idea of a future together while stealing from them behind their backs. To the infamous scams of Real Housewives stars like Teresa Giudice, what should have proven to be a major downfall only seemed to solidify her place in the Real Housewives Hall of Fame. Follow Scamfluencers on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Scamfluencers early and ad-free right now on Wondry+.