SmartLess - "John McEnroe"

Episode Date: October 30, 2023

This week: millionaire stringers, Father Clock, Pickleball, and a 10 pound bag of Chex Mix. Let’s lose it on the 9th hole with Johnny Mac… on an all-new SmartLess.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This button is not working. What floor are you guys going to? I'm going to three. Oh, maybe I'll just press that button and we can just go there. I'm not really going to a floor. I'm just here for the ride. You're just riding the elevator, just trying to meet people. My name's Jason. And this is my friend Sean. What's your name, friend? My name's Will. Yeah. I'm sorry. I was not exercising. I'm just a heavy breather. Are you hot today? Why are you not wearing anything but socks? You guys looking for a friend?

We're busy. We got to do a podcast. Welcome to... Oh, welcome to Smardless. That's it. Smart. What else? Smart. What else? Smart. What else? Smart. What else? What else? Smart. What else?

Oh my god, I'm so nervous. Let me see. Okay. Do we just go or do we practice once or... No, we're just going to do it. We're just going to do it. Okay. Okay.

Ready? Hey, smartless listeners. This episode has We're just gonna do it. Okay. Okay. Ready? Ha ha ha ha. Hey, smart list listeners. This episode is brought to you in part by our friends at Verizon. If you're wishing for the new iPhone 15 Pro with Titanium, you don't need to find a genie in a bottle or I don't know, steal an unsuspecting kid's birthday wish.

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I was just dropped any sweet little Denny who's as you know, is three off at school. And on the way there, he starts telling me this story is running a shirt. It's got an alien on it. He's going, I saw an alien. I said, you did? Yeah. Last night. No kid. Yes. And he go, really? Yeah. I saw an alien. It was in, it was in our home. Yeah. He was in the body. He was next to the body. I said, the alien used our body. Yeah. He said, do you go number, do you go peer poop? You go poop and he goes, no, he did a huge poop. I saw it really. So then he starts telling me this story. And the alien ends up in the toilet

and then they're kicking a soccer ball. And I go, what color is soccer ball? It's green, just the same as him and him family. And I said, okay, so he tells us this whole story and go, so then I start every time I keep relaying it back to him. Let me get this straight. So you see the alien and by the third time I go, so let me get this straight, the alien's inner bath

and he goes, the end. He was done with the story. Okay. And then Jay, I start telling this story because he sees this building that one of the other boys kid, his buddy lives in. So we start getting into friends and what's the name of Archie's friend and his mom. And I said, what's the name of Mabel's daddy? And he goes, Sean, and I said, no, close. Yeah.

Might as well be. And he goes, and he goes Jason. I said, yeah, it's Jason. I don't believe it. I swear to God and we go through and then Amanda and Franny and blah, blah, blah, blah. And I go, yeah, and then remember we were at our friends house the other night for dinner and then Abel's other friend and then he goes, I don't like your story.

I like my story better. I don't care at all. But right? Right kids. I'm still believing that there's an alien in the bathroom. my story better. This is a terrible. But right kids, I'm still believing that there's an alien in the bathroom. I know. Did you see the photos from, from where was that from Mexico? Yeah. I mean, yeah, are those real?

The, I mean, they're obviously can't be real, but CBS and CNN and everyone's like reporting them. I should like, yeah, I thought that was like what news of the world used to do. Yeah, I can't believe that Sean's not doing this episode from Mexico City. I'm just realizing that when I rebooted right before we started recording, I lost all my questions for my guest. No way. Yeah, like what? Did you find them now?

No, I'm just... Why do you have more reboots than anybody? I don't know. I guess I'm technologically not gifted. I don't know what's going on. But you know what? I don't need them. I don't need them because where I'm deficient in technology, I am gifted in asking questions.

Not verbosity. Okay. All right, here we come. Here we go. Do I do still have my intro? Sorry, Sean, did you, are we on a… No, I'm going to say, do you want me to tell you something while you look for them or no? Well, we can wait are we on a, I'm gonna say do you want me to tell you something while you look for them or no?

We can wait until we're done with your break. Sean just found the, the drive-through for Cinebon right around the corner of the house. Yes, are we interrupting breakfast or anything? No. Is it really Cinebon? No, it's a peanut butter sandwich, peanut butter and jelly sandwich. By the way, listener,

we're on a Zoom yesterday with about 20 people. And, Oh geez. We'll, we'll ask Sean, hey, Sean, it's about five o'clock. And we close to dinner. He's like, yeah, let's go in and see what's cooking. So he goes into the kitchen and there on the stove is, forget what you were talking about. That it was some sort of a fish thing, but there's like a bacon is being fried to contribute to the sauce. There's some sort of a fish thing, but there's like a bacon is being fried

to contribute to the sauce. There's some sort of a cheese dish that's, I said, do you have family over or friends or something, or is it just Thursday? Yeah, that was a lot of food. So you have like a full, you have a full meal. Yeah, yeah, just that's the only meal. For me, I'll every night. Yeah, yeah. Just that's the only meal. Full meal every night.

Yeah, almost every night, yeah. But, but, but that's because I don't usually eat like fish or something healthy. I'll eat like something healthy-ish during the day so that I can have like spaghetti and meatballs or something at night. Do you put bacon in that too? No, no. Were you so worried about the health content of the fish that you had to throw the bacon at it?

Yes. Yes. By the way, Jay, when was the last time we got an invite for a dinner? I mean, he has a nice meal every night. Every night. about the health content of the fish that you had to throw the bacon at it. Yeah, like you've asked. By the way, Jay, when was the last time we got an invite for a dinner? I mean, he has a nice meal every night. Every night. I just kind of figured like,

y'all want to go in your own corners. You don't need to folksy that up to excuse your rudeness, okay? Folksy. I'm so excited that we have one of the world's great talkers today. This isn't, I'm getting, I'm entrowing my guest. This man is electric with his words, his guitar, and his charisma.

Today's guest is one of the most famous and successful athletes alive today. When he played, he was as dominant as he was compelling. He was fiercely competitive and never boring. He has an unbelievable amount of trophies and records in his sport, but what he's done for the Caucasian Afro and the Enkort microphones will never be matched. Please welcome the winner of 17 Grand Slam's A Great Guitar, is a good golfer and a new friend of mine, the one and only John McEnroe. Oh my gosh. Mr. McEnroe. Good morning John.

Wow. Very nice, Jason. Thank you. That's probably a show, right? I shortened it a little for you because I knew Will was gonna go it's my career And he did he beat me. It's a race with him. He's bright He said once I knew about the the Curlier the guitar when you say grand slams in guitar. I was like, yeah, it's gotta be I didn't know you play guitar. Hi John nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Yeah, yeah, I loved you by the way and brought I hadn't been to a play for years. Your performance was amazing. You came to the show. I did. I

tried to come back to say hello. They wouldn't let me in. No. Yeah. That's very kind of you. Thank you, pal. Thank you for coming. I didn't realize that that greater piano player, man. That was something that wasn't that stunning. Can you believe that he has talent? player, man, that was something that wasn't that stunning. Can you believe that he has talent? I knew he had talent, but that was off the charts. That's very sweet. Thank you. Yeah, classically trained pianist, never, never, never knew it.

But this is about Mr. McIrl. Thank you, John, for coming up. This is about Mr. McIrl. Now, John, do you play piano as well as guitar? No. I do not, although Jimmy Webb, who is a famed songwriter and pianist, tried to teach me the guitar a couple of times. We traded tennis lessons for piano lessons.

Yeah. And it's just, it wasn't for you. It's easier on the fingertips, isn't it? I love the piano, but I prefer the guitar. I try to get all my kids to play piano. They did, but they didn't stick with it. I said, stick with it. It'll be good for you. Maybe someday you'll be on Broadway kicking ass. Yeah.

Winnithonies. But no. Yeah. Exactly. Maybe someday you'll be wearing two compression sleeves and icing your fingers every night. Exactly. John doesn't think the don't think the guitar strings hurt your fingertips. Yeah. That that that that was my problem with it. And also like could you ever get carpal tunnel or any kind of like, tendonitis? I've been lucky, actually. I probably don't play enough to get carpal tunnel, but you got to build up, the calluses,

like you do on with your, my tennis hand. You had to do the same thing when you grip a racket. So that takes a while. But I got over that. And you know, at least this is one of the few things I'm improving at, a guitar playing. Did you ever get tennis elbow? I was about to ask the same.

You know, generally speaking, I had issues at times with the elbow, but never real bad. How about golf elbow? Have you been, have you been there? I have not had golf elbow. I just have, why am I playing this dumbass game sometimes? Elbow.

Oh, John, that's not true. You're a good golfer. We play the cup of times. You and you're not unlike what you said about guitar. I feel like you're getting better at golf. I feel like you're more consistent. I've seen you miss some some shortpots, sure. I could have a video. Wait, you guys always play together. Yeah, I have a video currently on my phone of John missing a putt on the ninth hole over there. Are they any fell to the ground and took off all his clothes and protest every time I play. I don't like the, I don't like how much time you're spending in New York, though. It's not great for our golf outings.

Well, sometimes Jason, I do have to work. Yeah, man, you know, the US open was, you know, the big one for us in hometown. It's great, but we missed you well, that Augusta though. I know, I know. I wish I could have, as you knew, I had a, I had a dear friend of mine passed away, so I couldn't make it. But we're going to do it again, same crew, and we're going to do it up and get down there. I'm so excited.

Now, also what's keeping you in New York is your great tennis academy. That started when? I would say about 12 years ago, the last 10 of which we've also started a charity arm, which is called the Johnny Mac Tennis Project, which is, you know, we're constantly trying to raise money so we can get more kids to play this great sport. It's too unaffordable, it's not accessible enough, it's too expensive, especially in New York.

So it's an ongoing battle, but we're making progress. If somebody wanted to contribute to that, how would they go about doing something like that? It's a 501c3, go on the web and internet and go to Johnny Mac Tennis Project and anything you can give would be incredible. But we just had a program and we do, we do a comedy night every year, which is great.

Jason should give 10, great. Jason, give 10, grand right now. Well, this is a 10, grand right now. It's a shot and Sean, will you match me? Let's go. That's 30 right here. Oh, come on. Come on. You're breaking out. You're, you're tennis academy was going through your tennis academy is, is charitable in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, charity work there basically or philanthropic work where you are identifying kids that wouldn't otherwise maybe be drawn to tennis or have access to tennis and you're giving them that right through scholarships and whatnot. Absolutely. And we have a lot of programs.

We go to public schools and we bring them in. But this is also a for profit place. And I work for someone. This is city on land. And the people put 20 million dollars into it. We're putting an additional 15 to add another 10 courts. So this is an incredible place. But at the same time, there's 90% I'd say the people or people that went to schools like I went to high school The Ivy League high schools that pay the bills You know they come and play once or twice a week so that we have a chance to do enough and raise enough that we can get the 1%

You know unfortunately What 99% can't afford it. Yeah, right right? Well, was that like, John, for you speaking of high school? Because I know now, I mean, it kind of, and again, please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that kids who played tennis when they were growing up and they were young. The idea of going to like an all tennis academy started with Nick Bollitterry, is that right? Sort of that dedicated thing where the kid you started to hear about. But for guys like you who were like right on the before that,

right before that generation, were you playing tennis every day on Long Island, were you playing, were Queens or, what was that like for you? I grew up in Queens. The best thing that ever happened to me was not going to a ball of Terry's type camp. I would equip the game when I was 16 or 17. I

loved to play other sports. All studies show both physically and mentally. It's healthier for kids to play other sports. This idea that you got to go all in and soccer or basketball as a bunch of can you say bullshit on this? You can say, yeah. Total BS. You can say fucking bullshit. Yeah, you can say fucking bullshit. I'll get to that shortly when you ask me a lousy question.

I got one for you. But the truth is, is that what I base, my beliefs on or what this academy is all about, that you know, you should play other sports, and you should come to this a little later. Tennis players are peaking later than they ever did. I think college is an experience that not only you get to play as a team, potentially, if you're in a sport, you get to grow up a little bit, and also have some fun before you

work your way into a profession, and you'll be more prepared to handle it. So I completely disagree with what they do most often. Right, because John, the idea that like, not just as an athlete, but also as a person, as a human being, if you come in and you turn pro when you're 17 or something, and if maybe you have success, and again, like you said, you're not peaking yet,

but you have success, all that kind of pressure, everything that goes along with that, the traveling, being away from home, being away from family, your support group, it seems to me that be, especially for tennis, it'd be pretty tough to deal with all that if you were young. For every person you hear that succeeds is a million that don't, you know, not everyone's Carlos Alcaraz, he's one in a billion, uh, inter- Yeah.

And he's just a freak, he's an incredible player. But most kids have no business doing that. And college now has become more competitive, and now they can offer money, which is, you know, was unheard of. You can actually, you know, go after a guy and offer him something for the NIL stuff. The NIL stuff. I mean, most obviously he's going to football and basketball, but at least allows kids that otherwise would have nothing in college

to think maybe I should wait a couple of years. Yeah. John, why do you attribute like you talk about Alcarez? Like these guys are hitting the ball and who is it that Medvedev played him right? They hit the ball so hard. I have to, I mean, it's not like, not like us.

No, but I mean, like, well, that's what. I'm just saying like, we were dinersores. Well, but I mean, you guys were every bit as big and as strong, is it just the racket? I mean, you guys were playing, I can't believe what you were able to do with the size of the racket that you guys were playing with. Why is it bigger now? Oh, yeah, it's bigger now.

It's lighter now. I didn't know that. Look at that thing. Yeah. That's what I played with till I was 23, which is, you know, about you add another 40%. That's the difference in power and the size of it. So the sweet spots a lot bigger. So that's allowed kids at my academy. I'm at my academy right now that hit 12, 14 year olds, hit the ball harder than me. John, John just showed us his wooden rack. Was that, did you win Wimbledon with that racket?

Like that kind of racket? I did. I was one of the only records I still have. And I think I will always have it is I'm the last male player to win a major with a wooden racket. Wow. That's right.

What if somebody made a storm or it came back out of the scene with one of those rackets? Do you think how long do you think they'd last? You just, you can't compete with the one. If you played one event, Carlos Alcaraz could play with with with anything. He is amazing. What about what about what about Federer? Who's who's been who's yeah game Federer seemed to me had like such and I remember I've over the years you know watched a lot of matches of his that you've called many many. He has you

really like the way he played his style and his he was so graceful and he's I don't know, how would you describe it? He's the most beautiful player I've ever seen. You know, I idolized Rod Lavor. He was an awesome, he's like the bridge and a cough of tennis. As I would describe him, where, you know, you look at Rafael Nadal, that's not your typical,

or prototypical tennis player, his body. You know, he looked, you know, like bigger up top when we grew up there, like don't lift, right? You know, you don't want to get, you know, that's a memo. Yeah. I was like, don't worry. You know, who do you think you'd match up best with today? Oh, yeah.

I mean, like another lefty? No. You mean, who would I play like? Or who would I play? Who would you, yeah. If, I mean, like another lefty, no. You mean who would I play like? Or who would I match? Who would you, yeah, if apples were to apples today as far as age goes and equipment goes, who do you think you'd have the most entertaining match with? Like the match. Well, the dream would be to play Roger Federer at Wimbledon.

The nightmare would be to play Rafael in theale at Rolling Garros on clay, even though I grew up on clay. That was my best surface, so I turned pro. But he's, you know, what he did was insane. Why don't people still serve in volley like you used to? I need to find that so far. I feel like Becker was like the last one to do it, right? That's correct. Yeah. You know what? They changed, they changed the court speeds, they slowed it down and wimbled and they did the same at the like Indian Wells or the US Open. Actually, US Open is fairly quick. So you're seeing it come back a little bit with Alcharez and people always imitate the top guys, but you know, the explosion necessary to come in point after point. I don't think people

realize that takes a physical toll. Right. So it's easier to serve big. These guys are bigger, Mevadav 6.6. The average player's gone from, you know, when I was six. He's six six. So the average player has gone from five 10,

five nine to 10, two, six two, six three even. You know, joke of it's a six two and a half. Murray, six three. It you know, joke of it's a six two and a half, Murray, six three. It used to be six one, that would be Sampress, Fetter and the Doll. But, you know, players are getting more athletic taller. So if you come on it with these rackets,

the ball's coming back faster, unless you stand 20 feet beyond the baseline, like Mevadev. Yeah, that was amazing. And so it's tougher to get close to the net. Right. We'll be right back. Big thanks to Zip Recuder for their support.

Guys, you know who I'm grateful for? The two guys listening right now recording this for me, I love them very much, Bennett and Rob. They're like my family. We couldn't do the show without them. And every single day, I say a prayer for them, and I love them, and I have photos of them on my refrigerator.

We love you too, Shawnee. Thank you. Love you, Shawnee. Thank you. It takes a team of people to make this show successful, just like it takes a solid team to make any business successful. So if you're hiring, how do you find the best people

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to get more out of whatever you're into. Hey gang Jason here, November is diabetes awareness month. A time to bring attention to diabetes. So let's let's talk a little bit about that. Managing diabetes requires a lot of effort and unfortunately a lot of people living with it don't feel understood because not many people know what it really takes to manage the condition. Well that's where Medtronic Diabetes comes in. Medtronic makes devices to manage diabetes and they're very passionate about supporting the community, which is why they've launched their Blue Balloon Challenge to raise awareness. The balloon represents the mental load and constant decision making that people living with

diabetes are faced with. It's a constant balancing act trying to keep blood sugars in range while living their life. Medtronic diabetes wants you to join the challenge and help them spread awareness and support for the diabetes community. So grab a blue balloon and try to keep it in the air while doing everyday things in your life. Tag MedTronic Diabetes on social media and use the hashtag blue balloon challenge.

We can all come together to help make the invisible visible. Visit medtronicdiabetes.com slash smartless to learn more. That's medtronicdiabetes.com slash smart list to learn more. That's MedTronicDiabetes.com slash smart list. All right, back to the show. You know what's funny? You're talking about these guys are coming on the scenes Alcatraz as I call them because you know I just like put a twist on it. You know what I mean? Jay, you're amazing. Sean's not with me. You saw him right about the day. I was sitting down and I'm with him.

Yeah, I'm just really happy. You talking about these new guys should come on. So Alcarazza's come on the last two years and he's just been an absolute, he's exploded like kind of seemingly out of nowhere. I mean, for us, for, you know, I'm not a huge, I don't follow it. The minutiae of tennis. But. Well, he's number one in the world.

He is. No, I'm just saying before I didn't watch, I didn't know about it. I didn't know that he was the guy. He was in the pipeline.e of tennis. But, well, he's number one in the world. He is. No, I'm just saying before I didn't watch. I didn't know about, I didn't know that he was the guy. He was in the pipeline. He was coming. I just, all of a sudden he was there and he was incredible. But John, you did the same thing. I mean, what I'm getting to is, I remember distinctly,

I remember being up in Northern Canada watching you and Bjorn Borg play in those unbelievable, when I was a kid, those unbelievable matches from Wimbledon. And everybody's like, who's this guy? And you know all this stuff. He was like, he's, he's brash. He's from New York. He doesn't give a shit. He, he won Wimbledon. And then he, if I can win, got pizza with his pals or so. I still remember that story again. Part of the pretenders. You part of the right. I'm really among other people. But the afro and the afro and the headband though was just so hostile.

We don't want to hear about parting with the pretenders. Well listen, who would you rather party with? The bunch of old farts that you know, they did dinner that we weren't sure I had a go to or you know, some rock stars. So I don't think that was the top one. You know, I went to Wimbledon when I was 18. I was sent to play the juniors. And I broke through and qualified and made it to the semis of the main draw. And that completely changed my life. I didn't realize, you know, what Wimbledon men except when I saw my, the guy you mentioned, my great rival, Bjorn

Borg. And I remember seeing him play a few matches when I was like 15 before I played there. And like hundreds of girls ran on the court. And it was like, oh my God, this is like tennis is version of Beatle Mania, Borg, the people, I go, I wanna be a tennis player. So I gotta get some of that. And so, and then I, I wanna just mention this because to practice what I preach,

which is I actually went to college after that. I played professionally all through the summer. I was 21 in the world when I entered Stanford. Wow. So, uh, that's crazy. It's unheard of if anyone's even above 500. So I felt like I wasn't ready emotionally and wanted to experience being part of a team and going to Stanford. And I think that was good for me in my career as it ended up. And then you fast forward a couple of years, those are the matches where I played Borg two years in a row 8081. And so that was like the greatest, you know, a great time for tennis. I was lucky. I came into what turned out to be a really important time

where tennis was really growing. I mean, if you had told me that golf without rate tennis, the way it does now is on the net worse, I would laugh at you in the 80s. And so we haven't done nearly enough as a sport. We were at the same ratings as basketball. And it's absurd. How far have we gone the wrong?

Pickle ball. If I hear a pickle ball, one more goddamn time. I'm on to. I'm going to fuck with you on the pickleball. That's your cue, Sean. Go for it, buddy. He's just going to say pickleball thought, but, but, but you play a different kind of pickleball. Well, boy, Joe, I played a kind with, when I played tennis, you know, me and Andre Aguicy played along with, you know, Michael Chang was on my team in Andy Roddick. So it was like tennis players playing. So it wasn't as painful as having to put up with some, or a college player who didn't make it in tennis. And now it's one of the best pickleball players in the world. And it's a wiffle ball.

I agree. Wiffle ball was outside. And when you're a kid growing up, I did in Queens. It's not the same as baseball. No, it's not his trash. I think it's total trash. I used to play paddle. I used to play paddle tennis in the beaches in Venice for years. That's a better game. At least you play with the tennis ball that's had the air taken out of it. But the fucking pickle ball. I like it. I like it. Oh, of course you do. Everybody does. It's like it's like when people starting getting the racquetball, you can fact guys can stand in the middle. They don't even have the fucking walk. The box is the racquetball. Pick a ball is the fucking same. You want to do shit. You can't wait. I can't wait till these fucking rich assholes have

to pay over their stupid. What was that over there? We have a fucking period. We have a debt. Pick them all apart. Pick them all apart. I'll tell you the happiest people around are the doctors because a lot of people have played. It's better to do something than nothing. So I'll go with that.

But I didn't like yesterday. What's that? I worked on my legs yesterday. That means he squatted down to the stove, opened it up, pulled the pie out. No, he had to down to the stove, opened it up, pulled the pie out. No, he had to put his feet around a fucking huge, he had a 10 pound bag of checks mix, and he had to use his feet to hold the ground. Now, he opened it. Hey, John, talk about what, I mean, obviously winning, this is for the folks out there that

don't play tennis, but something that you could you could you could talk to them about that's that's applicable. The the gain you'd get from winning versus losing, because everybody has experience with winning and losing. How you've probably had to develop a muscle early on that could turn a negative into a positive and try to try to gain from it. Was was losing, you know, losing tangible gain for you at times that you can speak about? Well, obviously, as a father of six and having grown up being told that losing builds character and you learn more from losing than you do with winning,

that there was something that was inrained in me at a young age. And I do believe that it's true that you can sort of take a step back and that it does help you in a lot of ways. Not just on a tennis court. So that's what I try to tell the kids that are at my academy, try to nurture them. It's hard though, because you feel like the last place you want to be is on a tennis court when you're getting your ass kicked

by someone. Yeah, no, no. Especially if you ever got to the stage where you're playing at US Open in Arthur R. State and what would you be like a dream come true for any professional tennis player and then you get toasted by someone. So my problem was is that at a certain point in my career,

I think late 20s, I started getting more fearful of losing and not sort of embracing the idea that you need to learn from it as opposed to facing up to it. And that hurt me. And I felt like I was a lesser player from that point forward. I had more of a fear and a fear of failure sort of gotten the way a little bit too much. You always have to battle that as well.

Did you end up getting on top of that? Or is that still something that like, do you take that out of the golf course? You take that into, you know, experimenting with music. Like have you gotten on top of it and factor in losing as an acceptable result? I've, you know, I go by the belief now that it's better to try and fail than not try it all.

Yeah. Um, early on when I was doing commentary, I stopped playing boys like 30 years ago, the main tour. I played a champion seniors tour for 25 more years. But at that time, I started to get some positive feedback about my commentary. And it's once, at a certain stage, people would come up to me, you're a better commentator, then you are, we're a player, and I like, bolt-shipped, okay? That's fucking real shit.

It would really make me angry for quite a long time, for years. And then I realized, I thought to myself, I took a step back once and I said, wait a minute, I thought to myself, I took a step back once and I said, wait a minute, if I, they think I'm a better commentator than I was a player. They never saw you play. Well, that'd be one possibility. Or else, hey, maybe, maybe I am a pretty damn good commentator. And I should take that as a compliment. So, you know, just sure. Yeah. And I have. But it's, it took a long time. I guess it would be the long answer to your question,

was that it took a lot of experiences that you referred to. You know, the love of music has a hobby. Getting a second chance with a second marriage that worked out far better than the first. Trying to be the proper role model as best as possible for my kids is often as possible. I got six kids between my two marriages appreciating life that I've been pretty damn lucky. That's what I try to give back at my academy. And even when I do with commentary working

around the players, that, you know, I'll do next week when I go to labor cup, which is our version of the rider cup. And try to just be around the guys, and if I can help them that little bit, 5%, 10%, that could make the difference, hopefully. So I've got a much better attitude than I did, although I think that some of the things that I used to hide my fear of failure, which was showing anger, and said, like, sit in their start crying. You know, that I don't think we were brought up to be, let's cry on the tennis court.

So, right, right. A lot of that time, that was manifested and sort of turning into anger. God forbid, I thought I had a decent sense of humor. And I would think of something funny, like, that was going on the court, but I felt like when I grew up, it was like, you gotta keep intense.

You can't. You'll lose your edge if you do anything. Now you see guys that are out there like Fed or I was like, how the hell is this guy look like he's so happy to be out there? Yeah. Or you know, Alcaraz, the guy smiling, I'm gonna just you wait.

Just give it a couple of years. You'll be miserable like the rest of us. Yeah. But I watched you, I think we talked about this once. I feel like, John, I wish that you would commentate on other sports because I know you're a big sports fan. And I'm like, I wish you would go on and commentate on football and basketball and hockey. And you know, that would be fucking, you should have you ever thought about that?

Didn't you say once you were going to, or you did do it for basketball? It's like a side-mocha pass Like, like, Peyton and Eli do. I did, I did, I did Peyton and Eli just this past Monday. Yeah. Yeah, they don't count. Peyton and Eli don't count, they're. They're pretty damn good at that. No, I love this.

I love this. No, no, no, but I actually last year when I saw it, I was like, oh my God, this is absolutely perfect for me and my brother. Yeah. To do on the tennis. Let's unleash us. Let us do it. Oh, it's already been done.

What? Okay, so what? Yeah, I'm working with the concept. And as far as answering your question, yes, I was a few years back. I was going to do a next game. Unfortunately, my dad passed away, like literally right around that time, so he wasn't able to happen. There was a time, I don't know if you remember this,

it was probably 15 years ago, Dennis Miller ended up getting the job, but they said Monday night football, they want someone who's not a football player. Oh, right. And they want it maybe bringing three or four guys for three or four games each, and I go, oh my God, that's

absolutely perfect. This would be unbelievable because I love sports like you said and I don't, I'm no football expert, but I know enough about it to sort of at least give my two cents like a fan. And then I called my agent and he's like, ah, they, you know, they went with Dennis Miller and I go, what did they say when you mentioned my name? I didn't mention it. I didn't think you'd get it. I'm like, what?

What a guy. You got a deal on him, huh? So he was done. So I'm so fired. Even though he helped me issue with the TV deal, so I'm like, what are you doing? But I'm not saying I would have gotten it anyway. But now, of course, you feel like in a certain way

I don't want to be like walk in and be like yeah here I am I can do you know football and you know some football player who You know wants a job and needs it. I you know, I feel a little weird about that So maybe the talk show format what I was gonna do radio I'd like to talk show by the way Yeah, thank you for both. You were both came on it. It was 19 years ago. Unbelievable. Oh my God. Unreal. That was a long. That was a long time. Right when CNBC got started, right? Wasn't CNBC? Yeah. They wanted to do. As a matter of fact, I filed Dennis Miller and they were trying to get, you know, usually

people turn off CNBC at four o'clock, right? You know, and Charles Gross. Yeah, Sean, you should know when John did his program, our mutual for all four of us, no Meredith. Walker. Yeah, I worked for John. Yeah. Oh, they didn't know that. Yeah, I love Meredith.

And that's how we end up doing it. And I still got, I think I still got the racket that you gave everybody was a guest assigned racket. Dunlop was a guest assigned racket. Dumb lot bracket I got. And just you guys. Oh, shit, just us. No, not me. Oh my god.

I'll check the mail again. I'm fascinated by John, you know, I'm, these guys know I'm fascinated by medicine and medical things and when I went whenever an athlete comes out I was asked what's the worst injury because I'm, I'm, you know, the repetitiveness of like Jason was talking about earlier about just the repetitiveness nature of especially tennis of the constant back and forth. What was your worst injury and what did you do to take care of it because I, it is like, like, the theater, I know these guys joke, but it is every single day doing the same movements over and over again, takes a toll on your body. So how did you, how did you play for so many years?

What was your regimen like if you got hurt? Well, first of all, I'm gonna knock on wood because I'm pretty lucky. I've never had a surgery. Wow. Amazing. So that already is lucky when you hear these horror stories of the football players. I remember they asked Joe Montana recently, who's the greatest quarterback ever?

He said, damn, Reno, and they go, you don't mean like Tom Brady or Patrick Gohomes, and how would it be different for you? And he was like, because they protect the quarterback more. 27 surgeries later, he's had 27. John L. Ways had 27 to 30 surgeries. So these poor souls take way more of a beating. The worst injury I ever had, I tore

my hamstring, and this was in the seniors, they're not the main tour, and you have chronic shoulder problems. I tore my meniscus twice the last five years without, I didn't do surgery, and I recovered. But I was fortunate. I was taught in a way that it didn't put a lot of strain on my body. Look at Nadal, the way he swings it, everything it, everything. It's like the home run swing. So I think, you know, that you're more likely to get hurt. But I was... He did get injured, right? In a period there, that wasn't he quite...

He's been injured a handful of times, but, you know, he's got a great team around him that keeps him going. I don't know how he still does it at his age, but he's had numerous injuries. Bar's backers had 12 surgeries. A lot of guys have a lot of surgeries and it's cost them. Hips is the worst part.

I think the hip is the thing I've struggled with the most, and it's all connected, obviously. So, you know, I had a, you know, mainly when I was younger, and most successful was pretty much tennis. You know, you do running, sprinting, that type of stuff, not a lot of weight work. I've I played doubles, which no one does anymore. And as I started doing weights, I actually didn't help me. And off court training, I

just enjoyed to like work out to generally try to keep, you know, reasonably fit. So that's, you know, I've been pretty fortunate all in all compared to most people. You've got to be the only like Uber champion of any sport that has never had a surgery. That's got a new record by itself. That's unbelievable to me. You and Kel Ripken. No, but you Kel Ripken's.

I've had like 17 months. The only person ever that reached number one in the world who has the same size arm, left arm is right arm. I used to try to copy Rod Laver because his arm was like, pop by. And I was like, I would squeeze balls like hours and hours a day when I was a kid. And you know, do any type of,

anything I could do to, well, I'm even going where you're going. I'm just saying it's nice that you can, now Sean can finally relate. Yeah, I'm just saying it's nice that Sean can finally relate. I'm just saying, squeeze balls and I just perk up. Most athletes, anyone, especially if you're doing something with one arm, 95% of the time, or more, I had a one hand at back end. I could not figure out why nothing changed.

So it's bizarre, but the body was pretty resilient all in all. I never, I played tennis off and on, and I don't really play that much anymore, but I used to, and I used to love playing some for very stages. And I always prided myself because you would talk, I always pride myself on having one handed backhand. Cause I grew up in an era when everybody wanted to have, like in the 80s, everybody was trying to get that, you know, to hand it backhand and print brackets and

all that kind of shit. And I was like, no, I want to play it more gracefully. And anyway, I just want to say, I think you'd really approve of my backhand, John. Go ahead. Hey, the bad news is that if I had a young kid now and said, should you do one or two, I would tell them to. Of course. It's more. Well, you can, you, and the way they hit off the back foot more and obviously you can

take balls up higher, especially when you're younger, but even as you're older, because he so much spin that it makes more sense to use the two hands. It's actually better for you physically because you're using both sides of the body more. It doesn't look as cool. And the other thing is one hand backhand looks so graceful. But I will say it's funny if all this sort of years of playing and taking tennis lessons when I was a kid and whatever, then when you watch these guys the way they play now, I'm like, what game are they playing?

Because the way they hit their body, where they're at with relation to the ball, where they're grip now, all that stuff is so different. Absolutely. I mean, I played with one grip. Now these guys, you know, have huge changes than they're back in a forehand grip. They seem to do it effortlessly and it's like learning a language, you know, if you learn it, it's quite easier when you're young. They're moving the racket as they play this.

And what did I see during the US Open? One of the players actually took his racket, walked it up to his coach, handed the two on and asked him to restring it while he continued playing with a different racket. Well, they bring six or eight rackets on the court and they're always complaining like the coach fucked up. You know, it's their fault. You know, you got to blame someone other than yourself. So you give it to him.

You told me it should be 50, too. I'll get the fucking thing and put it at 48. But did you ever hand a racket to a coach and ask him to restring it during one of your matches? No. Well, first of all, I didn't travel with the coach back when I played, but second of all, I brought like six rackets in a bag,

but I'd have like four different tensions to sort of, you know, be, have available in case it was, you know, humid in case of all was flying heavy, whatever. These seem to bring all these same tension, which I don't quite understand. And the stringers are like millionaires now. We didn't restring rackets every five seconds. These guys string rackets, I remember San Chris,

he broke out six rackets to a practice session. He used one of them for like an hour and then he go, I'm, all right, Mac, I'm done. And I go, okay. And then he give the string a restring all six. I go, why are you restring all six? He didn't even use five of them. Why do you think most sports are more tolerant of players having outbursts than tennises? I feel like you kind of got the short string on that to go back to strings.

Obviously, things are more accepted now, but at the time, people are looking at you like, oh my God, what is he doing complaining about that call? Why? It's so not okay. Okay, now other sports, it's fine. Why is that? Well, first of all, if you put a microphone in the middle of the field in a football game,

something tells me they're not saying hello, how are you? I'm good. And basketball, they control it. In baseball, we used to love when the manager would go up to the park, kick dirt and his pants. That was incredible. Then I go out there and I go, you missed a call. And I'm like, you know, till the hunt, all of a sudden, you know.

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And it's already included in your prime membership. To listen now, all you need to do is go to Amazon.com slash smartless. That's Amazon.com slash smartless. That's Amazon.com slash smartless. Or download the Amazon Music app. It's just that easy. And now back to the show. How do you like that new thing now? Are, am I wrong?

Or there are no more on Piers calling lines. It's now computer yet they put in a speaker of somebody like an audio somebody saying out or whatever, right? Isn't it? It's new. It's automated now, isn't it? I don't mean to be a

cynic, but I'd like to know how accurate it was, but you know, having said that, it is. Actually, if you knew that you had a chance to sort of double check a call, you know, I went to Wimbledon the first year I played there, and I'm playing a match, and I look over and the guy's sleeping,

you know, one of the lines, man. And I'm like, he's probably seeing the ball better now that he's asleep, because they can't see a damn thing. And so you... I always dreamed about being one of those guys. Did you? But big ones. Yeah, I watched you.

I watched tennis and I watched you and I'd be like, I want to be the kid who runs across and catches you. Oh, the ballboy ball. That's, yeah, that's a cool. It's actually a tough gig to get, apparently. I ball-boyed for a handful of years at the US Open. So you get close to it. At Forest Hills?

At Forest Hills? At Forest Hills. And by the way, the answer to your question, the electronic equipment, I would have been, you see, my hair might have been closer to your color, Jason. And I would have won more, but maybe I wouldn't have been on your amazing podcast. You know, you still would be. So I got to look at the bright side that, you know, your game was better than your

efforts. I would have been more boring. No, your game was better than your average. I would have been more boring. No, your game was better than your average. Did you ever look back on some of those old freakouts that you had out for us over a call and that turned out you were right? Were you right like 100% of the time now that that's what I tell myself. Yeah. No, but it tells me it might not have been quite a hundred percent, but there was that

call. You know, the ball was in. You know, chalk flew up. I did that one. And 30 years later, we literally did it last year. I played the, or two years ago, because it was 81 that had happened. The guy that I was playing against came on ESPN and said, John was right. The ball did hit the line. Chalk did fly up.

And I just was like, yeah, it's 30 years before, but vindication, finally, not that I'm worse than Jack the Ripper. So, and Wimbledon, you can challenge a call because there's still people calling the lines, but the US open, it's automated, right? That's correct. It's going to be all automated within a few years. I think baseball is doing the same thing. Are they?

Well, maybe they should, because if you play baseball, just think about this. And, you know, the umpire calls a ball that's clearly outside the plate. Why is that a strike? I don't give a damn who you are. It's the plate. Yeah, exactly. But meanwhile, they're like, well, that's the umpire. He's, you know, he's given the picture a little extra, you know, a couple extra inches. What why would be my question? Yeah, it should be without opinion or nuance.

Right. But let me say this and this might be controversial. Uh-oh. I've felt, and I'm serious. I felt like with all the instant replay and shit, especially when you have VAR and soccer which, you know, every goal they look at. I feel like it's taken a little bit of, it's just, it's not opinions, just nuance.

And the human error should be part of kind of everything. I think so too. I liked it. It made a story when they get the wrong call. That's the wrong. Well, tell your other wrong side. If you're on the wrong side, I agree if you're on the wrong side.

I'm trying to get a part of the game. Why shouldn't. That stuff be taken out and what is left is just pure execution by the athletes. I think that what you're saying about the human element, there's some truth to that, but as an ex-athlete, if you know that the call could be corrected properly, I mean, and that could be the difference

between winning and winbling and losing. I mean, that would be hard to argue if you're an athlete at any point to say that you should have that. I totally get that. And obviously, I'm not an athlete. And so I, I can see, yeah, the injustice of it. Just so Jason, in baseball, they would just get rid of the umpire then. No, the umpire would still be there to make a cause it plays on the plate.

Um, I mean, I'm not. I there to make a cause it plays on the plate. I'm not potted. And to sweep the plate. And yeah, you know, you know, that's very important. Yeah, very important. John, let me ask you something about, and we've asked other folks that are incredible champions that are no longer playing their sport, where they scratch that old itch of competition and challenging yourself and seeing what you got, weekend and week out, was that something that was an easy adjustment for you? Is it a current adjustment for you or where do you sit with all that? Yeah, actually, it's a constant thing, you know, and I've tried to sort of taper off slowly.

What happens if no one wanted me to play tennis anymore? You know, I've been asked this a lot. Do you love tennis? And my answer to it is, I don't know if I love it because I've never played it where I played it for nothing. I'm still asked, like, believe it or not, you know, and I hope no, that never gets to that point, by the way, that I have to play for nothing. But if I do, you'd have a better idea

whether how much you still wanna be part of it. But I've learned over time that there's, you're always gonna be, I'll speak for myself, very competitive, but I'm not as competitive as I was when I was playing. It's not the end-all be-all. As much as I like to beat you that second 18 Augusta, when you came on and hit a shot in 80 or 81 or whatever it was, and I was flailing and hitting balls in the water, I'm

like, try to get a little perspective here, John. Life's pretty good. Will couldn't make it because his buddy passed away, you know, and saying, you know, all things considered, how lucky, you know, that type of thing. And, you know, again, I know you guys have kids. I got six. If I'm sitting there telling my kids, you know, I should have won the French.

I should have done this. Why didn't I do that? You know, and then I still want to beat their ass on the basketball or tennis court. I mean, I think that would be sort of like the wrong message to be sending to my kids or the kids at my academy. Yeah, are you kids in sports?

It depends how loosely you define sports. They did play high school basketball and high school tennis and one of my boys played college for a year. But you need that like fire in the belly if you really wanted to do it in a serious way. And I don't know. I think I love my kids. And thankfully, Naka and Moira, they're doing well

all of them right now. But they had a little bit. And this is my fault, what you call affluenza. Yeah, sure. Maybe they're that hunger that maybe you need to succeed at, you know, a professional level. Sean's got that hunger,

that fire in the belly, but it's for a foot long, foot long stuff. But, you know, they, you're, but John, your kids, like everyone else on the planet, always is probably looking for something that they fit with and can excel in or at least put themselves in a situation to see what they've got. And it sounds like while it was pretty clear what you had with tennis, you know,

the father clock or father time doesn't stop, sorry. And, you know, everybody ages out and everything. It sounds like you have found the other things that you can see. What have I got? You become like the best announcer ever in tennis and will probably be equally good in any other sport. Your philanthropy, your parenting, your music stuff. It sounds like you are, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it sounds like you are sated, right? I mean, you're not hungry for arenas to see what you've got. No, no, I feel like I'm in,

I've worked at this for 40 years, literally. And I feel like I found that sweet spot and been able to appreciate more the things that I enjoy doing and want to do them as often as possible. And to enjoy, you know, one of the reasons why I love commentary work still is I only were doing the majors. You know, I didn't want to go on tour and do it all the time. So I get to, you know, super pumped up for the eight weeks of the majors, do some stuff here and there, maybe 10 weeks. And I was still playing because, you know, there's never, never anything that will duplicate

the speed on the center court at Wimbledon, but you know, still going out and competing, I played the seniors to, or they have it in golf, obviously it's harder in other sports, but I did that for 25 years. I made it close to 60. So I'm sitting there going, man, you're pretty, you know, you got to look at the bright side in this one.

So whatever comes your way, if someone, at some point, it's like, who's that guy? You know, I didn't think I'd get the gig as a night writer of a show, never have I ever, where I'm like the psychologist for, you know, high school Indian American girl trying to figure out her way in her school. I didn't see that one coming. And part of the reason I'm gonna throw this in,

I was asked to be the commencement speaker at Stanford this year, which I was turned out I was the first athlete in 120 years to did it. And I was a Stanford dropout. So that was, you know, and the Stanford class presidents talked to me. One of the big reasons why we picked you because you were a narrator, I'll never have I ever.

And I'm like, my God. You gotta be kidding me. So, you never know. So who would have thought? So thank you, Mindy Kaylee. Yeah, no, no, no. But that's, look, I understand that we never thought that we'd be doing this thing this podcast. And never before three years ago, and it was just like on a

larke, and now this is like a big part of our lives, and it's fucking crazy. It's crazy. John, two things I want to know. First of all, right off the top of my head, where you stand currently on it. I don't think you're still endorsed, but I mean, you had some of the greatest surgery of Tekini track suits warmups of all time. And where you stand on the Sergio Tikinis, did you have any of those great beautiful zipups left?

I mean, they're incredible. Yeah, Sergio Tikini, back in the day, feel a lesse with bass, you know the quality, made in Italy. Made it into some nice, a lesse, I got some nice lesse. And by the way, I'm the longest serving. I'm still believing in our Phil Knight, still has me under contract with Nike.

I've been signed with them since May of 1978. So I'm 45 years. Wow. When is the next Mac and Rotten issue coming out? It came out. I just did a little spot. It's on the internet. Check it out.

Me and Travis Scott. Because he loves that my old sneaker was called the Mac attack. So it's being reintroduced. Go ahead, Will. John, you had used to have your first one was the Mac and Row all court, right? Was that the one with the Wimble then, you know, as the original sort of like this person who stands Smith, what he did with the D this and then I went to sort of like the three quarters, which was actually like a

racket ball, which is now everyone pretty much uses. And then the Mac attack. So it was nice that they reintroduced that and Travis Scott apparently takes a sneaker like that and does, you know, puts a little, if zone touch on it or does this something a little differently and unbelievably, you know, more people are asking me about that than almost anything else. So it's crazy. They want to do another one with me in Travis Scott.

I'm like, I don't know where you are. I think you do a golf shoe. You do a golf shoe. Yeah, I'm open for suggestions. Let's do the smart list. Can we do the smart list, Mack and Rogoff shoe? Can we do it? Let's do that.

Let's do that. Come on, let's do that. What, before we let you go, what's the thing that people would be most surprised that you do? We know about tennis, we know about music, know about golf, is there a hobby that you just can't live without or a little pastime, even if it's just watching TV, or maybe even reading. Will likes to read about World War II. A lot of people don't know that.

A lot of people don't. I'm pretty much an open book, more or less. What you see is what you get. I do have a passion. I'm thankfully, I love music. It keeps me humble in a way, because I've obviously been around so many great rock guys and seen so many shows.

And it's like, who you hell? My marriage or incredible thing. I was just saying, you're married, too. And so that's, you know, she sent to me way back when I said, because she was disillusioned. She had, you know, sold a couple million records, but it wasn't, you know, felt like she was treated fairly now as a woman and she was disillusioned. So I'm coming in and I'm like, hey,

why don't we have a band together? I'll join your band. I've got a lot of energy, and she goes, yeah, we should play mixed doubles at Wimbledon also. And I go, I go, you don't play tennis, and she goes exactly. So that was 28 or nine years ago. So it's kept me, my perspective, I still love it.

I try to be less, I guess one thing that would be different is that I try to be less competitive. Yeah, yeah. Actually. Yeah. You know, because you look at me and the way I played and obviously the people saw that I was pretty competitive. So there always, you know, if God forbid, I don't scream or fall over on the golf course,

they're like upset at me now. You guys will say like, we're not going to invite you to Bel Air scream or fall over on the golf course. They're like upset at me now. You guys say like, we're not gonna invite you to be there unless you fall over at least once you scream and skip. And skip, Bronson. We only mention skip every fourth episode. Hey, do you know, John, I will say this as this is not a question, it's a compliment. Of all the times I met you over the last 20 years, you're so consistently yourself. And I think that, and it really shows.

And like you said, what you see is what you get. That's true. You are very, you're an authentic guy. And you really are you, whether you're talking to the biggest rock star, or you're talking to the guy who's bringing you your car, you're the exact same dude. And I think it speaks a lot to your character. So, you know, it's that. Well, I've never seen such an sincere like you're not doing a thing.

It's true. Enjoy being you. I do. And I want to thank my wife, Patty, Smythe, for, because the greatest thing you can have in a relationship, it's been 29 years now. That's so. It's to let the person be the person you want to be. And she's allowed me to do that.

So love you, baby. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. Hey, what band are you loving listening to right now? I'm more of like the Grunge guy. I'm looking for new stuff. We grunge.

So you're into Pearl Jam and Sound Garden. No, I'm not going to go see the food fighters. Yeah, I know. I love stuff. So good. You know, I love Kingsley see the food fighters. Yeah, I know. I don't have stuff on. So good. You know, I love Kingsley on two. Yeah. But there doesn't seem to be like the new rock stars

are the rap guys. Yeah, and or it's all electric or something. Yeah. Rock is sort of a little like tennis, you know. I mean, we got to get our act together. Yeah, yeah. All right. Yeah.

Well, John, thank you for spending some time with us, buddy. Please come back to Los Angeles soon so we can you for spending some time with us, buddy. Please come back to Los Angeles soon so we can go play some golf. Love to, man. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. And awesome. Thank you, buddy.

Thank you very much. All right. Can't wait to see you again. All right, John. Thanks, John. Bye, buddy. All right, man. Bye.

Yeah, I really mean that about him. He is, he is, you know, I find myself saying this to my daughters as often as they'll bear me saying it. That's daddy's. Oh, sorry. Is there's just, there's just one of all of us. You know, so why would you waste any time trying to be someone else? I mean, I'm inviting that from someone else, famously said that I'm sure, but he so clearly himself,

he's unique, he's singular, and he enjoys that, makes no apologies for it, and it is encouraging. It's infectious. He's the same when you, if you're having something to eat with him, or we remember we played with him at RIV, we played in the pro-AM. If he's teeing off in front of 100 people, if he's walking to the thing, if you're grabbing, he's the same. He's like, he's talking the same way in the supermarket and the checkout line.

He's just him and when he's in the booth too, right? When you listen to him on the broadcast, I wanted to tell him, I wanted to tell him I played tennis when I was a kid a lot. I took tennis lessons. Oh, he would love to hear that. Jesus. Are you back? You're snacking.

I love when you save. I love when you save some of your best comments for after the guest is going. What else would you have put into bed with? Um. Um. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey the bike, like side saddle, and he would ride his bike all the way across town. And then on the way home, he crashed, and I blacked out, and I got a super fat lip, and the ambulance had a came.

And I was sitting on my neighbor's porch. And the craziest thing was the sentence, that the ambulance had a came. And the ambulance had a come. I just came up by the next step, when you're here. I mean, you really stood in there with the silver, you know, hair. Well, say at the pickup truck nearly, it sounds like the lyrics for Stone Me by Van Morrison. I thought he was just trying to back into a buy here, but no, no, no, no, no, no. No, I don't.

Sean, what are you eating? Tell us what you're eating. I just put a grape in my mouth. Okay. A grape. Is it green? Hey, guys, let me ask you this. Okay. A grape. Is it green or red? Hey guys, let me ask you this. Do you think that...

Oh, it's red. Do you think that I want to know where you guys stand on? Because it happened that we kind of let it go. Where you guys land on Father Clock? Because... Father Clock. That was a low point for me. That was real.

You know, the brain just doesn't fire like you used to. I don't forget. That was a low point for me. That was real. You know, the brain just doesn't fire like you used to. I don't forget. Father clock is... I'm gonna hold this in my high school band. We're gonna make smartness father clock, step sweatshirts. Yeah.

And then father clock, you know, when you watch the father clock, you just watch time go. Bye! Very nice. You know when you watch the father clock, you just watch time go. Bye! Very nice. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart.

Smart. Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbaco, Michael Grant Terry, and Rob Umjurf. SmartLess. Our next episode will be out in a week wherever you listen to podcasts, or you can listen to it right now early on Amazon Music, or early and add free by subscribing to Wondry Plus in Apple Podcasts or the Wondry app. Okay, so if you had a time machine, how far in time would you need to go back to be a

dominant basketball player of that era? I need to go to when Bob Coosie was playing. Back in the plumber days. 27 year old Shay would give Bob Coosie the business. He's not guarding me. Hi, I'm Jason Gitzapsion. And I'm Shay Serrano and we are back. We have a new podcast from Wondering.

It's called Six Trophies. Woo! And it's the best. Each week Shay and I are combing through all of the NBA storylines finding the best, most interesting, most compelling ones and then handing out six pop culture themed trophies for six basketball related activities. Trofies like the Dominic Toretto, I live my life a quarter mile in a time trophy, which is given to someone who made a short-term decision with no

regard for future cons quets. Or the Christopher Nolan Tennett trophy, which is given to someone who did something that we didn't understand. Catalina Wine Mixer trophy. The Lauren Hilly might win some, but you just lost one trophy. Follow six trophies on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to six trophies and free right now by joining Wondery Plus.