SmartLess - "Jon Favreau"

Episode Date: March 20, 2023

"So a bounty hunter walks into a bar..." Jump into the ring with none other than Mr. Jon Favreau. We're fixin' for a species reveal, meticulous concentration, and the big balloon, so have your Mrs. Beasley's muffins on standby for another delectable episode of SmartLess.Please support us by supporting our sponsors.This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/SMARTLESS and get on your way to being your best self.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The art of the cold open is something that's not really that appreciated. You turn the mic on, you start rolling, and you start talking to introduce the show. People think, oh, that's easy. It's not. It involves a lot of time, a lot of thought, and sometimes a little bit of humor, and oftentimes a lot of heart. Well, I didn't have any of that today, but anyway, it's a brand new smart list. A few weeks ago, now it's a few weeks ago, Jason and I went up to Pebble Beach, as you

know, and then you came up with Scotty. Like little angels flying up from … Wait, that's very nice. It was really nice of you to do that. We were so happy to do it. It was very generous of you, and Shawn is very generous. You're a very, very good friend, and you have a very generous spirit. Well, I love you both very much.

We love you very, very much. Well, Will and I were talking about we could both learn something from you. Me more than Will. Well, that's going to be like a seminar. Me more than you meaning that he has more to learn than I do is what he meant. Yeah, no, I think they got it. Wait, Will, are you really that tired still? Dude, oh my God, we got home last night.

Oh, that's right. Well, I saw Jason last night for a few minutes. I feel great. Will's a little more tired than I am because he did a lot more winning than I did. Wait, wait a minute. Let's talk about that. I made the cut. So, Listener, this was a golf tournament, Listener, which I'm not too proud to say.

But we are proud that it was to serve all the well-deserving charities up there in the Monterey Peninsula, and a bunch of really great people up there running that thing for years and years and years. And Willie and I did it this year, and Will came in second place in the closest to the whole contest, which was incredible. And then the whole tournament itself, he made what is the coveted thing, which is to make the cut, which means that you're one of the top 25 teams that gets to play the final day.

Yeah, that's amazing. I guess like pros. No, no, no. It should be noted. Alongside pros. It should be noted. My game is so bad, and I happened to get lucky on the holes that mattered where I could score.

Other holes you would have watched and you would have thought, now this guy just stepped. He's never seen a golf club before. He just stepped onto the course. So some of them were so bad. My playing partner, my pro, was the Canadian guy Taylor Pendrez. Swift. What's up, Taylor? Not Taylor Swift.

That would have been interesting. Because Taylor ended up doing quite well in the tournament, and I was texting with him afterwards, and we both agreed that I showed him all the shots not to hit so that he could do it. You did provide value. What a great value. But not to do. So he was like, don't do that.

Don't do what he did. Anyway. But let me ask you something. For as long as you guys were up there golfing, which was an entire week every day, my bad on that. The repetitive motion of golfing, doesn't that wreak havoc on your body every day? Yes. I was tired.

Definitely. And I said to Jason when he said, hey, we're going to go up to Sunday before, and we're going to play that day and every day leading up to the tournament, I said, you don't think that's too much. He's like, there's no such thing as enough. This is what we're doing. I'm going to prepare. He's a total.

I have addiction issues. That's probably for another podcast. But you can't be addicted to playing golf. He'd be surprised. He'd be surprised. I can find a nice addiction in most things, but fortunately, it's all pointed towards healthy stuff. Yeah.

Nowadays. I actually thought I was like, I don't want to play again. Jason, I was supposed to play Friday. I thought I'm not going to play until Friday. I don't want to even look at my. And then this morning I thought, I did have a good drive on 18 yesterday in the final hole of pebble. I might just go work on that.

Just to capitalize on that. Did you go get balls today? I almost did. Like a sicko. And I was like, do you, do you, um, when you eat, did you get sick of the food? Wasn't it the same food every single night for an entire week? Wasn't it like eating at a dorm? No, there's really nice restaurants up there.

Really great folks up there. Yeah. I did take advantage of the opportunity to eat a bunch of things I wouldn't normally find in my home. That's true. It was fun to watch Jason eat. I will say. To watch him eat food.

Well, you ordered was really fun. Well, before I even hit the table each time, I would, I'd ask the hostess taking us to the table. Do you guys have fried calamari or anything? Remember they go, they go, they go, no, you were there showing them, they go, would you guys like something to drink? And we were like, yeah, we'll get some water and I'll take a diet coke. And Jason goes, yeah.

And if you can find any bread back there, I go, do you want them to put that in a glass with ice? They're getting drink ordinaries asking for bread. There's any sort of carbs, sweet, salty, but then you eat so healthy, these massive salads and then we'll order fried calamari and you're just fucking digging in. This is why I eat healthy. So I can splurge when I really want it. And I know, I know.

It was like a shovel. I know. It's unbelievable. But Sean, we had a nice time and then Jason left early to go get a massage or give a massage. I can't remember which one you said. I remember. Again, another different podcast. Sure, and then we had some dessert, you and Scotty and I had some nice dessert.

Yeah, I ordered extra ice cream on mine and you had the tiramisu. I did. You do love ice cream, right, Sean? And it's not like exotic flavors. It's like you're a vanilla guy, aren't you? That's it. Truly. Just vanilla.

Just vanilla. And also for ice cream too, right? Wait, but do you know something? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Wait, but do you know something? I'm not making this up. Do you know why people like the taste of vanilla?

Oh boy, insert joke. No, no. Because it makes them feel alive. Why is that robot? Because it reminds them of the taste of mother's milk. Huh. Huh. Yeah.

It's the closest thing to the taste of mother's milk. What, nine out of 10 babies were pulled on this and there's got to be a one-eyed mother joke in there somewhere. We'll work on it. I know. It's the wonder bread of ice cream. To be honest though, so I love ice cream too. If you had, let's just do this before we get to our guest, Jason's your guest today, right?

So I'm sure they're waiting. Yeah, it is. Let's tighten it up. What, what do we, what, number one dessert, they go, you get one shot for one dessert for the rest of your life. You only get one more. What is the thing that you're having, Jason? You go first.

One. Longer. I mean, I'm just surprised myself with cobbler came to my mind. What kind? What kind of cobbler? That's not bad. Warm peach, berry, rhubarb, whatever it is, because I like that crumbly, graham crackery situation.

Right. So if you had one, okay, cobbler. Okay. Shawnee. Well, you know it already. Just one scoop of vanilla ice cream? Like a massive scoop of ice cream with like Hershey's syrup and whipped cream on it, like a sundae.

Okay, like a sundae. You know, you're trash. You're just trash. You're trash. Okay. Because I was going to say that if that was your last meal, like it was like, like you were about to go before the firing squad and you asked for a scoop of vanilla ice cream, I'd be like, just shoot him now.

Yeah. Just for the mouth. Right in the mouth. Just shoot him. I think I would take, my thing is I would have, I think would be cake. Yeah. What kind? Like a yellow cake with chocolate frosting.

That's all that is. Remember the cake lady? Did the cake lady make you that? The cake lady. She did. She made me a cake. Yeah. That's pretty generic too.

I do love a cobbler though. You know, they also make like a... You can't have any of mine. No, I know. But like an apple brown Betty, have you ever had that before? It's like a cobbler too. It's so good with like... Yeah.

Yeah. Anyway. But I can't do warm fruit other than apples. No, no, no, no. Insert joke here, Will. Go ahead. No. You mean...

No warm fruit jokes? Well, Mekanose comes to mind. It's filled with warm... In the summertime. They're really kind. They're all in. They're really warm. You're making exception?

No, I mean that they have a lot of figs. Yeah. Nice. I get what you've done there. Leave it. Leave it. Leave it. I haven't done a fucking thing.

You have. You did it. It's like opening pattern, incredible, but something that's even more incredible is... What's that? Yes. Today is... So exciting. Sean?

Merch madness. Merch madness. That's short for merchandise, everybody. I love it. And it's a little pun on the basketball tournament. All in one. So you're welcome. And it's for...

It's like a two... You think they don't know that? Yeah. Well, sometimes you got to explain it to Tracy. She doesn't understand college basketball or the short term for merchandise. No. The reason we started giving Tracy, like informing her of stuff was because it was all inside showbiz stuff.

Now you're just getting to... You think she doesn't know just basic life stuff? She also doesn't know about college basketball. What are you talking about? She lives in Wisconsin, man. But here's what the listener needs to know. This merch store has got... It's so great.

It's got smartless t-shirts and phone cases. Joggers. And there are people on there that jog, right? There's joggers. There's sweats. The hats are great. The hats are great. All this stuff is great.

And it's for the fans that want a piece of us. Well, that sounds gross. They don't like us that much. But if you want some fun... If you're sick and tired of your phone case and you want Sean's dumb-ass face on your phone, go to www.wonderyshop.com slash smartless. By the way, you only said two Ws. You said www.

First of all, nobody says that anymore. But at least if you are going to do it, say all three. There you go. That's World Wide Web. That's short for World Wide Web. Do you know that? Yes, World Wide Web. www.wonderyshop.com slash smartless.

Don't need to sing it. Why not? Here we go. Our guest today is a friend, a filmmaker, an innovator, and an actor. I've been lucky enough to work with him a few times. And he is as much fun to work with as he is to hang around with. He's acted in about 50 movies, directed nine movies, made a couple of TV shows, and a couple of children.

And by the way, he's responsible for the best Christmas movie ever and for basically starting Marvel's presence in Hollywood. Please welcome Mr. John Favreau. Get it out here, John. I'm so glad you're still awake. I'm sorry for the long, the long patter up front. That's amazing. I listened to the pod.

Are they always that long at the top? Only when you're excited to get into the ring. It's weird. I'm a little starstruck for smartless, even though individually I'm quite comfortable with all of you. Johnny Favreau. Oh my gosh, it's so nice to see you. John, you're so close.

Bacer, reppin. By the way, I know, listener, you can't see, but there's a baby Yoda on the shelf behind Sean up there. And you didn't do that just for me. No, yeah. He has no idea. He didn't know it was going to be me. Exactly.

Will and I need to clear the decks because Sean's going to take this interview over. He cleans up your Star Wars. Let's get Scotty. Let's get into it. Pull up a chair for Scotty and go ahead, guys. But Johnny, I told you at that last dinner, I think it was like a year ago, I said that how much like, I'm like, you know, I'm so impressed and like beyond, I can't even believe. It's ridiculous.

Like I just think you're amazing. But wait, let's start there. Don't you hate it when people call it baby Yoda? His name's Grogu. No. Like people have lots of different, you know, there's Strider and Aragorn. There's, you know, everybody's got lots of names. So Sean, just because people can enjoy just because they don't know the fucking nerd name

for the fucking, the puppet. No, but in all fairness, in the beginning it was confusing because people thought it was actually Yoda as a baby and that just threw off the time frame. But it is Yoda as a baby. No. Oh, it's not. It threw off. No, it's not.

It's not. Yeah. It's drawn right now. Dress down right now. Gros-goo shows up. Cause this is after return of the Jedi. When Luke Skywalker showed up in the last, fucking episode of men. Cool it.

Cool it. The ladies, the ladies are getting so heated up. Listen. We'll get to flake soon. By the way, fan of flake. I watch every episode of flake and I'm waiting. I sure did. Let's do the flake quiz.

I'm ready. Go, go. I was devoted to that show. And I like the neighborhood too. I know the neighborhood, you really captured Venice. It was like Venice porn. It was Venice porn and we had the great Wally Fister who directed a bunch in this first season

and he set the tone of how it would look. I think it's the most beautiful video. I love that show. I really do. Thanks, man. I really appreciate that. But, so wait, so let's play this dress once for all. I thought it was baby Yoda too.

I really did. So what's the deal? It's Grogon? Just got in here. That's the anime show I'm working on, Grogon. No, Grogu is the name as was revealed. He's a baby of the same species as Yoda. Well, that's what I meant.

That's what I meant. Yes, no, no, you're right. You're right in that regard. Did they do like a species reveal? Did they do like a big lift? It was green. We popped the balloon and it was green. Yeah.

Oh my God, there's so many things I can't ask you. What about, I can't just- Let's get into it. So Mandalorian, so before we get into the Marvel stuff, because I want to say, I've wanted to know this too. And I've known you a long time, but I don't know, understand how, because you are, in a lot of ways,

this might be controversial. You kind of started the Marvel- I said it in the intro. In a way, right? I directed Iron Man and with Mr. Downey, our mutual friend, all of our mutual friends. That was the first MCU film. Yeah, you and Downey created just a-

Marvel. A monster, a BMO, whatever it is. And had you shit the bed on that- It would have been bad. I would, would not be floating today. Telling you, I mean, it is the big balloon that keeps it all- There are a lot of people earning $25, $30 million paychecks, actors who should be calling you and thanking you

and cutting you a check every month, by the way. You get a muffin basket or anything from- I get muffins. Mrs. Beesley muffins. Downey's of the world, Mrs. Beesley. So, but I want to say, so I want to say, so you're part of that, not just part of it, you help create that whole world, the MCU.

But then, all of a sudden, you're doing the Mandalorian, you're doing all this other stuff, and now you're like creating this, part of this other whole universe. How did that come about, all that stuff? I was doing, so I had done the Marvel film. And how did that-

And how did you get chosen or how did you pit, like for Iron Man? For Iron, well, remember back then, it wasn't a big deal, right? It was kind of, it was a little bit like Moneyball, where they were finding undervalued talent. Sure. The utility director, that's important.

I was a good, I had a good on base average. I was a salty old knuckleballer that knew how to get people out, but I didn't have a sexy heater, right? Am I saying that right, Jason? Yeah, pretty much, yeah. And Downey was your Mickey Hatcher, right? He was the guy, he was again, worked for,

wanted the gig, really fought for it too. Did he really? Oh yeah, yeah, he actually had to read, believe it or not, to convince the people. Do you still have that tape? I think it's out there, I think it's public, like it's on YouTube. Yeah, he was amazing from the first time he,

it was so obvious. And I knew that if I had him in that role, I got the whole tone. And of course, after he signed on, all the other actors wanted to work on this thing because of him and because of the tone of what it was gonna be, because everybody was really a fan of his from way back.

And so we pulled together a really great cast, like an independent film, and we found that tone and combined it with the CGI that was, it was CGI was good enough at that point to do hard surfaces, like a metal suit flying. And so people really got to see something that you wouldn't have been able to portray

a few years before. That all started to build momentum and they started to launch other franchises off of that, leading to the Avengers. And after that, I went, I did, you know, I did Cowboys and Aliens after that. I love that movie. So I was back on the naughty list after that one.

Yeah, but that was another admirably big swing that you took on and I thought did a great job with. Thank you. It didn't do well at the box office and you know how it is in Hollywood, that's not, they don't like when that happens. So there I was, I cooled off a bit and worked my way back up with the movie Chef, actually.

Yeah, kind of got me back. Which I told you, Favreau, I remember telling you specifically in person how great I think that movie is to this day. Not was is, because it exists and it's a great, that is a great movie. If you haven't seen John Favreau's Chef, I implore you to go see it. It's so good.

It's so good, dude. Yeah, yeah. I appreciate that. It's really great. Thank you. And it was a special one, because it was like, like I started off doing smaller films

where I would write them and be in them or direct them. And then it was nice to be able to still be able to do that and find something that I could really feel passionate about. That one didn't have a big budget, but it did really well for what it cost. And then I ended up, because of my visual effects background, getting involved with,

I think the next thing was Jungle Book. And that was a hit. And then I really started to get under the hood with the CGI and the effects. And I was a bit of a lead-eye in the beginning. I kind of shied away from CGI, mostly because it wasn't done well in most films.

And as I learned more and more about it, I started to help innovate the tools to make CGI, I think look better than it had. And then we did Lion King after that. And then eventually. And the thing that you created, the wall thing. Yeah, so for the Mandalorian,

we created real-time rendering in- Star, not Stargate. ILM calls it stagecraft. Stagecraft, yes. Right. But it's basically using game engine technology in video walls and creating parallax, so you can move the camera.

And the backgrounds are basically captured in camera instead of after the fact. But what makes it efficient for what Sean calls the wall thing, is that, thank you, Sean, is that you can basically shoot one direction all the time and just keep changing the background. Is that correct?

Yes, and the actor feels like they're actually there. Right, so it's not green screen, right? So you could see the best. So the actors could see the background, but it allows you, yeah, Will, to film and just change over like you would with a video game, what the backgrounds are and all that's preloaded in front of a movie screen.

We use that in our flag means death that I did with Tyka and those guys. Oh, yeah, that's right. It was very well used there too, I thought, for the ocean. Is that what they used in Gravity, the movie Gravity? So Gravity, they used a system that definitely inspired what we were doing. It didn't have all the parallax,

but it would create interactive light with LED panels, which is what we surround the set with. They would have individual panels on a botan dolly system, which is basically a robot that was used for car construction. So they could move in and out light sources, creating interactive light on the astronauts. And then when they put the backgrounds in,

the interactive light is really the hard part to do in post-production. So Alfonso Cuaran, they came up with a great system that we ended up using panels like that in Jungle Book. So everybody's sort of taking baby steps, but around similar technologies. And we just had a big breakthrough on that. Dude, that is, just hearing you talk about this stuff,

and you're a smart guy. You know, today's Douglas Trumbull. Yeah, quick, quick learner. I mean, you came up, you're making, I mean, you're making independent film. A lot of people got to know you from the film that you wrote, obviously Swingers, which is one of the all time great,

one of the most quotable films of all time to this day. I moved here the year that that came out, and it was a whole LA, you know, Bay, I was just like blown away by like me having the experience that you wrote and directed on the screen at the same time. And from Chicago too, right? Yeah, we were both.

And from Chicago. And Sean, you're, because Sean's so money, he doesn't even know how money is, but so, because you've got these claws, and you don't even know how you got these claws. Oh my God. So, yeah, I'm going deep. You got it all.

So, I know. So anyway, while we're here though, big shout out to the man who is the best at what he does. Vince Vaughn is just a genius and a big hello to him. If you want to laugh your fucking face off, stand next to Vince Vaughn for one minute. Yeah, John, I just worked with him like a couple of weeks ago on Curb.

Oh, really? Yeah, just one really quick thing. I was hoping he'd be back. Yeah. What's it like to work on that show? I'm such a fan. He's great on it too. My God, it's crying, laughing.

He's so funny. I went to this charity event one a few years ago, and I ended up sitting next to Vince, and the guy who was running it was this sort of older guy, and he was not good at doing it. And Vince was in my ear the whole time, and he kept going, this is the face man that they picked? This is the face man.

And I was crying. And it was looking at me. You know what, faster. Because he's in my ear, and I'm crying. No, no, no. But who even has that term, face man, at the ready? Dude, he killed me with face man. But I want to give that to my original point.

But before we get off that, one of my favorite Bateman performances is in a Vince Vaughn film in Dodgeball. That's the ocho when you're on the ocho. That was with the hair. And that was like a half day, you told me once? It was, it was about a half day. It is some of the fun. Let me, let's just go around the horn

just for one more second. Another one of the almost funniest moments that if people have not seen it, first of all, you got to see Bateman in Dodgeball. But second of all, I went to a screening. I actually introed a screening, did a Q&A, and didn't know you were in it. But Downey's film, Senior, you and Downey with the piano,

with him singing in the later Hosen. Sean, sorry, I'm pointing. Sean, I don't know if you've, if you've not seen it yet. That movie is incredible. It is like the funniest three minutes of film that I could remember seeing. But incredibly moving documentary. When you are there with the water bottles,

like arm full of water bottles for no reason. It's just like really serious documentary. And then Sean comes in there and just starts, like Harpo Marx and just starts ripping it up. And the piano, when you tell him to start again. And then his father, just for those who don't know, Robert's father had some input in how this documentary was being made.

And one of his requests is that he sang a certain song in later Hosen as part of, what was the song that you were playing a company? Cause you're a great piano player. And you were accompanying him. What was the, what was the bit? It was Schubert's some opera piece, you know, like a, like a standard classic.

And he could really sing and you could really play. And there he is in later Hosen with Sean being a very difficult task master. It's just a wonderful little moment of cinema there. But anyway, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Sean, were we at Darry's for lunch that a couple of summers ago when he asked you to do it?

He just sort of said. No, it was on this, on the podcast. It was on the podcast right from, that's what I thought. That's where you were, yeah. Yes, we were out there and he was, and then you were like, yeah. And then all of a sudden like you're in the middle of it. And he's like, maybe, and he goes,

and he goes, maybe you should wear a tuxedo and I'll wear a later Hosen. And I go, I don't understand what's happening. I don't understand this movie. Oh, you look like you were very comfortable. And didn't you say, we'll talk about it later Hosen? And he said, that's how you came up with it? Isn't that how that happened?

And he laughed and I said, later Hosen. Later Hosen. Exactly. And now a word from our sponsor. Thank you to Benjamin Moore for their support. Be honest, which of your friends has the coolest house? Perhaps the colors are a huge draw and hey, it's pretty likely they use Benjamin Moore paint

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You know, I had a lot of energy. I was just always kind of, I guess, a little different. And it's tough to stand out, especially if you're a business owner and you want to attract the most talented people to hire on your team. Are you seeing the connection that I'm making here? But Zippercruder makes it very easy.

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Getting to know yourself can be a lifelong process, especially because we're always growing and changing. I was just saying to somebody the other day, I'm not the same person I was when I was a younger man, shall I say, I still skew very young, but I'm just back then, I was different. And we all do change. They say people can't change.

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to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash smartlist. And now, back to the show. But anyway, so, all right, so John, so you make, but you're, you make like a seminal, independent comedy which people don't really make anymore that has stood the test of time. You did all these things, you were an actor,

and then all of a sudden you become a director. And not just a director, but a director who's making films that are very complicated, that using all of these things and all of a sudden you become a director. And not just a director, but a director who's making films that are very complicated, using all these effects.

And helping develop technology too. And helping develop technology. Like a new George Lucas. That is a whole skill set that you didn't know that you had, that you had to learn on the job. Is that right? It was baby steps up, but I, you know, honestly, I know we've had conversations,

Bateman and I have had conversations when we started, you know, as Jason was starting to direct. And it's like you learn, what's great about being an actor is it's like the best seat in the house to learn because you get to ask a million questions, you work with these talented people, and you can learn, it's almost like an apprenticeship. If you want to, like you can ask a million questions.

I used to be, I started off doing like background work. I think you did too, Sean in Chicago. Absolutely. Mad dog in glory with that. He's back at it. Yeah. Can you go back to it? Is this true passion?

He's got his sports fold up chair. You always go back to your first love. Back to basics. I think it's, you gotta stay humble. That's great. Stay humble, good for you. But you know, you sit there and you're watching and they don't let you like close to anything

or you know, they keep you in holding and you get to be on the set. It feels like a treat. And then you're like listening to everything everybody's saying and you're watching. And then when I finally got a supporting role on the movie Rudy out of Chicago. Yeah, so great.

Also for applause. Thank you. Thanks listener. And there I started asking questions of the DP and they let me come around the editing room and learn. Did somebody famous shoot that? Didn't somebody famous shoot that? Oliver Wood shot that.

Well, I'm thinking of something else, but I'm sure he was very good. Great, great, great cinematographer. But you got to kind of see the inside of that movie a little bit. You got to ask questions, I guess is my point. And like I was always super curious. And even like when I moved to,

first I grew up in New York. I was in Chicago for a while, learning improv. And I finally got to come here on the heels of that role. How old were you and Rudy? Oh, 26, I feel like. Yeah. I feel like I was 30 when Swingers came out. So I was like 20.

So I think I moved out here at 26. But yeah. So when you went to Chicago, you were at I.O. You were at Improbable Epic in Chicago with all those people. So you knew a lot of the same people that we know in common who some came out here and some went to New York. And I was washing dishes at Second City.

So I got to watch all, I got to watch every night Farley on stage. I got to watch great improvisers like Dave Pasquaisy and Tim Meadows. Mike Myers was there when I was there. I was like, it was intimidating. Cause I was like that. Those are just like undiscovered, normal like people.

I was like, wow. It's also a really hard thing to learn. You can watch as much as you want. But if you don't have that little engine inside that doesn't make you any better or worse a person, it's just something you kind of are born with or not, I think. And how early did you know that you had that?

Cause just in my incredible research on, on Wikipedia. Yeah. It says that there's a Bear Stearns stop for you before any of this. Like, well, so how, when do you transition from interest in the financial world to going to Chicago to chase a dream based on what I'm assuming you knew you may have had inside,

which is a legend. I like, like, there was no pressure on me. So it was like school plays and that was just fun time for me. And like improv was great. Cause like if, when people went up on their lines, that was the most fun, like when you could be on stage and get out of that. But I never thought it was an option.

I got a gig at Bear Stearns cause a friend's father was able to hire an assistant. So I was there for a year before the market crashed in the eighties. And it just, I just got wrapped my head around that I'd have to work a job like this for my whole life. I wasn't enjoying it. And finally I just, I went cross country

and I stopped in Chicago on that trip. It's so brave. And that's when I saw people do an improv in Chicago. I had a friend who was taking classes in IO and at second city and I was like, this is the best. And I was, again, in my twenties, I think I was 22 at the time. And I knew how to bartend and I hit up the people. I had done some volunteer, I volunteered to be on stage.

And they did the first thing I remember, they interviewed me about my day, right? It was an improv game at IO called the dream where they interview you about what happened that day. And then they improvise in front of you what your nightmare is gonna be like that night based on your advice, right? That's a great idea.

So they did that with me and I was, you know, on stage doing an interview, getting some laughs. And then Chris Farley played me as the, so that was my first experience seeing improv. Was Chris Farley playing me and watching them really improvised cause, you know, when you see good improv, you think, oh, is that just shtick? They have up their sleeve, but I know they improvised all

cause it was all coming off of my interview and I was completely flabbergasted. What's funny, John, is that, and you mentioned, and I guess was Del close there around that time? Yeah, yeah, sure, that was Del. Del must have been, yeah. And so you go there because what we all know and people say like, oh, I watched this movie

and they're such great improvisers. It's different. It's different. And people who come from Chicago and people who know what improvising really means that what a herald is and to tell a story and to bring stuff back, it's different from like, when you watch people who are like,

oh, they came up with a different way of saying dick. Like that's not improvising. A different take, yeah. And some people, right, you're absolutely right. And there are some people, like you talk about Vince, like Vince likes nobody as quick as that guy. But you and Vince together, let's not forget about you. You guys are an incredible team with that stuff.

Yeah, but he's, I just hang on cause he's just so damn fast, you know what I mean? And just hold the reality and be a good straight man. Maybe I gotta laugh here and there. But you see people like him and he came out of Chicago also. But yeah, you're right. If people could improvise like a whole scene, that's different than doing a freebie take where you could get a laugh.

Yeah, where you get a laugh. Kerb does that though, right? They do entire shows, right? Yeah, they have a sort of a basic story. And then they, but I'm talking more like the IO stuff, like all that stuff. And then all the UCB guys did like Amy and Matt and Matt and Ian and Tina and all.

And McKay was there when I was there. I mean, Adam McKay is one of the great improvisers on stage. He's funny as hell like people don't know cause he's like a, like a award winning writer director. But those people, but I credit all my like knowledge of writing and directing from doing long form improv because you have to edit, you have to write,

you have to see patterns and scenes. You have to have callbacks, bring scenes back. And when you first start writing, it's really just like improvising with yourself and using all the rules that you learned around improvisation, heighten and transform, yes and all those things that you learned just to get you through when they stick you on stage at a bar

and sometimes people don't even know there's going to be a comedy show. And that boy, you really learned how to swim. Yeah. Do you miss it, John? I don't, I really don't. I miss that. I would, I would be scared to come up doing improv now

cause there's like everybody's got phones and everybody. Like there was so much room to fail. Yeah. And in Chicago, there was nobody you could, you know, you just do anything. Yeah, you know, and I feel like there's so much pressure like on a first film, on a first role, people make up their minds about people's skill

and talent based on the first time out, but you have to get things wrong a lot before you get it right. Yeah. But you know, to that point though, you do strike me as somebody who is incredibly courageous and you needn't look any further than probably that move from what on paper was probably

a solid predictable way to go in your life, which is going into finance. And then you said, ah, this might not be a great fit. Let me go try driving across the country and stopping in Chicago and seeing if I can accomplish my dreams and talk a little bit about what, cause that's very applicable to anybody listening in any occupation, just kind of listening to yourself

and tacking left or right based on an instant. And saying, I'm going nowhere here and I'm not going to be happy. As you said, I could see that I'm not going to be happy. I need to make that change. And Jason said, it's brave. Yeah, what do you, were your, did your parents give you a lot of confidence?

Did you have, were you born with it or? They kind of pushed me, I lost my mom, I was pretty young. So that definitely affects your whole trajectory. Yeah. So, but I would say that my folks both gave me a sense of confidence. I had a supportive family. Like if I was ever on stage or did something creative,

I was an only child that was very appreciated. Like I never questioned my own, if I had something to offer a value, I always felt everything. You got some out of boys for doing that. Yeah, I did. So I, there's a lot of credit there. And as a parent, you realize how important that is now

and with your kids to do it, because that's their foundation, right? That's like, that gives them their base and their stability cause they're going to hit headwinds and there's going to be a lot of things telling them they're not doing the right thing. And if they go down to deep memories and they have a sense of worth and confidence,

I think that gets them through a lot of, gives them a good keel. Yeah, yeah. Right? So, so there's that. But then there's also like just realizing, cause I was, on the other hand, it was like I was not really permitted to study things

in school that weren't academic. I was pushed towards academics away from like, there are high schools in New York, like performing arts and stuff and art and design. And, you know, where it would have been fun, I would have liked to have done that. My folks were no, go into the sciences and you have to pick a pragmatic course

so that you have stability. We didn't come from, you know, we didn't have a lot of dough. So you had to pick a career where you could have some stability. But then finally, like, and so all my associations with play was like after school, taking an elective in college. Like it was all positive. I never felt pressure.

It was always play time for me. So when it came time for me to write or do sketch comedy, it was all fun. I felt people who picked the career earlier felt a lot of pressure. I don't know what it was like, Jason, because I know you were at it, you were a pro from the beginning.

But I never felt like there was, that I had to compete in any way. Anything I was doing was just a lark and my family got a kick out of it. Jason once told me, you told me this when you were like 12 years old and you had a scene, right? In Little House in the Prairie,

you had to cry and you weren't doing it. And your dad whispered in your ear and he said, if you don't cry in this scene, we don't eat tonight. You're right. No, I like that. Did he say that? Yeah, I said that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We don't eat tonight. Right, I wrote it on the inside of my wrist. It's still there today. Wrote it down. I hope that's a joke. So, John, so first of all, what part of, did you grew up in this city? Did you grew up on Long Island?

No, Queens. I was a Queens guy. Oh, you were in Queens, okay, great. Plushing. So, yeah, right near the Trump wing of that. What's that? I moved around. Yeah, Queens hasn't had a good showing in the last.

Anyway, so you grew up in Queens. Paul Simon. Paul Simon. There we go. Paul Simon, Ray Romano. Ray Romano. We love Ray Romano. Yes, that's right.

Yes, we do. So, anyway, so you move out to New York. You do the Bear Stearns thing. So now you're there, you're... Oh, I didn't move to New York. I was commuting for Queens. You're in New York. I mean, you went from Queens to Chicago is what it means.

The fantasy is you moved to the city, but no, that was not my life. That never happened. When you skipped it, you just went to Chicago. I was like Tony Monero. I was taking the bridge. Bridge and tunnel. Right, just like Saturday Night in Fever.

So you go out to Chicago. You start working at Second City in I.O. And you're doing all this stuff. And that's when I was like, now I'm doing what I love to do. That's when my life kicked into gear. Like it was all gravy at that point. I was working, seating people and washing dishes

at Second City and selling t-shirts there and doing... And your dad, you're checking in with your dad and your dad's like, how's it going? And you're like, I'm killing it. He loved it too. He loved it. Like he was all into it too.

And my dad was great because he was like, he's like, look, he says, you're 22. When I called him from Chicago, I'm like, I think I want to do this. After that show I saw, he says, you know what? You're old enough to know, like to make a responsible decision, but you're young enough that if you're wrong,

you could still do something else. That's awesome. And so that was a permission that I got. And I really embraced it. What a great thing to say to your kid who calls excited about something. That is so fucking great. So I love that.

How does it come about that you write swingers? What was that? That was also my dad, I would say, because he gave me a copy of Final Draft. The writing software. I'm not sponsored in any way, but I have to say it's a podcast. Wait, you just got a free update. You just got a free update.

Trace, if you want to write a script, there's a formatting piece of software that where you can type in dialogue, it comes out looking like a script. But that's really it, because you start writing. You want to send Jason a script, you got it. Sorry.

You know, you start typing and it formats it. And I had read a lot of scripts because I was acting, right? Because I had come out here on the heels of Rudy, which was, by the way, to get a role like I got in Rudy out of Chicago, that was like a home run. So rare, though, Tim. So rare, because they were shooting local

and they were looking for local talent to say something. And you just auditioned for it in Chicago. Yeah, yeah. And I improvved a lot in the audition and David Anspa and Angela Pizzo, the director and the writer. But so many actors, because I was there too at that time,

so many actors would scramble and just like kill for one of those roles of the movies that came through Chicago, because there were so few, unless it was a John Hughes film. You have the John Hughes movies, because I was just about to say, and I was an extra on a lot of John Hughes movies.

You know? I love that. Really? Yeah, yeah. That's cool. Yeah, I got called back for, what's that Sandy Bullock movie? While You Were Sleeping.

While You Were Sleeping. Yeah, it was in Orderly. I was still waiting to hear if I got it. No, yeah. No. Huh. Well. Good story.

So, thanks for interrupting John. Sorry. So, you get Rudy, you get cast out of Chicago. Move out of here, get an agent. Get an agent. The producers from that say when you come out, if you come out to LA,

because I thought it was like, what they would do, Sean, if you remember, is people would work and live in Chicago, and then they'd come out here for like pilot season. That's right. Same as New York. We would do it too.

We would come out for two months. But when I came out, they were like, okay, you gotta tell everybody you really live here. Otherwise, they're not gonna wanna. And then next thing you know is like, oh no, you really do have to move out here. Right.

So, it was like, I didn't realize I was moving out there. And so, I would read a lot of scripts and audition a lot. So, I had enough heat off of that movie before it came out that I was getting to go to auditions. And when you go to auditions, you read a lot of scripts.

And also, I would improv a lot. Because I was usually like the comedic supporting friend. And so, they loved if I threw in some jokes and punched up their stuff. And then, when I got the final draft program, I just started writing. And next thing you know, you get like four pages. And now, I'm writing about me and inspired by my friends

and what we would do hanging out. And there was like- And were you buddies with Vince at the time? Yeah, I met him on Rudy. Yeah, okay. I met him on Rudy. And he moved out to LA roughly the same time, maybe? He was out here already.

So, it was a lot like the movie where he was showing me around and showing me the ropes. And here's where you hang out. And we go to Vegas and stuff like that. So, it was very much inspired by, it's his, and everything he says in the movie, even if I wrote it, it was based on conversations that we had had

or things that he would say, exaggerations of it. But it was really channeling his humor and everything that he's, how entertaining as Will points out, how he is just as a naturally as a person. And he was reading for roles that were, he's a good looking dude. So, he was reading for all of these like either leads

or the, you know, the enemy of the lead. Or, you know, he was always playing those kind of, they saw his face and didn't realize how funny he was. And so, this was the first time he really got to be who he was, I think, on camera. You know, I tell you, John, one of the scenes that I love about, and I think it's not unheralded, but in, in swingers,

is the moment when you guys are at the former 101 restaurant. Cafe 101. Cafe 101. It was right at the corner of Franco. And it wasn't even that then. So, there's that scene and you guys are talking. And he's looking over your shoulder and he's like, oh, she's a little baby.

Oh, and he starts, he thinks he's, the woman is making eyes at him and waving. He's like, she's playing a little game. She's like, he's doing, he's waving back at her. And then it turns out she has a little kid. She's got a baby across from her. And that is based on something that really happened to Vince.

No way. In an airport. No way. Yes. Somebody was waving at him. Somebody was waving at him and making faces. And he was very off put by it. And then finally they picked up a baby.

Because you know how airports have the seats in the rows? And that's so funny. So that was a, you'll have to ask him about that. But what's so great about it is it's kind of, it's kind of tragic in that moment. It's at the end of the movie and there's sort of a tragedy to it. It reminds me a lot of, you know, one of my favorite,

my favorite film of all time with Neil and I, there's this kind of tragedy to it that's built in. And I think that there's that there in that moment. It worked nice because it was like, you know, it's, he found somebody, Mikey found somebody who he really connected with. And now he wasn't on that journey anymore. He was ready to, you know.

So I think in that way, there's sort of a disconnect that happens there. Maybe, I don't know, you know, it's not like you think about the stuff when you write it. It was honestly like him telling me the funniest thing just happened to me at the airport. And then I worked it into the script. Right, and you don't really think about this.

You're not deliberate or strategic about what it is you put into your stuff. You're just kind of putting in, whether it would be writing, acting or directing or producing stuff that resonates with you. It is your own personal taste. And you've learned how to use more and more and more tools that you're disposal as a director

to communicate that. You're absolutely right. And it's not conscious in any way, you know, and you learn to go to things that interest you or that you are drawn to, but you're making instinctive, seemingly instinctive choices. But that doesn't mean that they're not valid. It's just that your conscious mind isn't doing it.

It's coming from a deeper place. And so a lot of the writing you do or images you're drawn to, you might not even understand why they resonate, but you're really working through things subconsciously, I think, and that's one of the great gifts of being able to do what we do as a career is that you're really working through stuff

usually from a younger age. But I will say, and not to embarrass you with a compliment, but your ability to bring the Favreau sensibility to what has become the industry-saving genre was something that I think folks will look back on as a real gift, because had somebody without your sensibility, comedically, you know,

your sense of humanity, vulnerability, blah, blah, blah, to infuse that into a superhero comic book genre is, would never be expected. But your ability to kind of trojan-horse that in there, I mean, I guess that's my question. How much of that was part of your pitch as a director when you talked to The Powers It Be? Was it Kevin at the time?

I think what was cool about, here's what's interesting. So I work on Elf, right? And with Elf. You haven't even got to Elf yet. Exactly, I'm gonna spend some time with that. But that was what came before, right? That was sort of my hit that got me as a director. That's the first thing that I did that made.

20 years ago. 20 years ago. So well-deserved. And what's interesting to me is when you do a comedy, everybody's giving you a million notes about every joke, right? But they didn't care about any of the action stuff. Not one note about like the Slay Chase

or any of that stuff. When I went to Marvel, all they gave me notes on was my storyboards around the action sequences. And nobody cared at all about the dialogue. Wow. So it actually gave me more permission to be, to have my sense of humor in it. Because my sense of humor isn't always like,

not every joke lands. And like, if you're expecting it, you got to punch the joke and like, it's not funny enough. But if it's not expected to be funny, and it's just kind of dry. It can be a grin. Then it's a grin or just dialogue. Like they're not judging, you're not being.

Right. When you cast Downey in there to bring in his sauce on top of that, it's a fringe benefit. It's an added asset that it didn't need to have, right? I mean, if you just had the action, apropos of the only thing they were noting. The personality of Marvel comics, like I grew up with, there was always a tongue-in-cheek kind of.

Okay, gotcha. It wasn't as like earnest as DC. But they gave you, by virtue of that, they were kind of like, yeah, hit all these moments. This action stuff that's really important. And the rest of it, you can have that. Yeah, she'll go for it. And hit this budget.

And hit this budget. And then the stuff in between, yeah, go for it. If you want to have them be kind of interesting and be quirky and have a joke here, they're like, yeah, go for it, we're fine with that. And that's, I mean, that's very freeing, I imagine. But about Elf though, I read a long time ago, or I don't know when, that you set out,

I don't know if this is true, you tell me, to make a movie that was a classic Christmas film to be viewed for the rest of time. Like that was the goal of that movie. And a lot of people go into making stuff like that, but that doesn't happen. And it happened with you, with that goal in mind. I mean, that's amazing.

That was the hope, you know what I mean? Because you think about like, what's the success of, if you're gonna be, because we're all friends with Peter Billingsley also. And he cameoed in that. And his work is either director or producer with us on different projects over the years. Somebody else who grew up,

won a good example of somebody who comes up through the business and learns the ropes and then continues to, you know, have an inspired career. And he, you know, it was interesting to know him because he was in Christmas story. And there, you know, the hope is that you could have a, make a movie that could sit alongside of a film like that, that's in rotation every year.

I don't know if it still works this way. I think it does. Like TV would run a certain, there was a certain amount of films, like it's a wonderful life and Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer and Charlie Brown, right? So to be in that pantheon of films that run in constant rotation around the holidays was always the hope.

And we got to be there. And part of it was, remember it's also after 9-11. So, you know, I'm from New York and 9-11, you know, New York after 9-11, it's just everything like the music stopped. It was just like everybody thought in New York, they thought of that. And here we were filming a year later.

But there hasn't been, I mean, name the last hit, like Christmas movie that's consistent with Elf does. I can't think of it unless there is one. And I don't even know if there are movies like that anymore. Like everything is so on demand now. I know that like there's a lot of chatter online about Elf every year. And I know like even though we didn't have it

merchandise made at the time, I see Christmas ornaments and blankets and costumes and ugly sweaters. So it's part of the culture. And now there's also people who grew up with these movies. So that's even stranger for me. Cause it's like, oh, we're, or like I'm introducing, it's our kids first time watching Elf.

And they'll like post a video of that. And that to me is the best like that. That's really cool. And if I had to pick one film I'm most proud of, like it might be that one because it, because it has such an intergenerational thing. It makes people feel a certain way around that time of year. And it feels like it's enduring, you know,

and it felt old even when it came out cause it was stop motion and forced perspective. We didn't have a lot of CGI in it. So, and that, a lot of that was budget too. It's like we couldn't afford CGI. I saw the behind the scenes of it too, the making of it. And it was like what you did with the angles to make will, it's so, it's so easy and simple.

It's an old trick. Yeah, like from Darby O'Gill and the little people. I mean, that's Lord of the Rings used it too. What about Faizon in that? How great was Faizon? I know, that's the, if I land on a scene from that, it's him and Will arguing with each other in the North Pole. We'll be right back.

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companies now Marvel. And then you go over to Disney and the Star Wars franchise and how in the world did you get over there? Like, it's unbelievable. Well, I was working on finishing The Lion King and those movies take many, many years to, not many, many, but it takes a few years to finish because you're overseeing animation, visual effects,

finally, all that stuff. So you have to be attentive. You can't go off and do something else because you have to approve shots very, you know, as soon as they come out, just to keep the machine going. And, but it's still not a full-time job because you're not going to set every day. So for a couple of hours each day, you have to be available,

but you can't go off and do something else because it just takes a lot of meticulous, you know, concentration to get every shot right, but it doesn't require all your time. And so I started thinking about, they had talked about Disney Plus launching and that we're going to have TV shows and maybe Marvel stuff.

And I had talked to Kathy Kennedy years before when they were, when they first, when Star Wars moved over to Disney, was sold from Lucasfilm about the notion of maybe working on a movie. I was a fan of Star Wars. And so I pitched her, I just went in there and pitched the idea for the Mandalorian

of a very simple story about a, you know, I was the first scene bounty hunter walks into a bar. So great. This happens. And so she was into it. They were very busy because they had the last movie of the Skywalker saga that they were getting ready to release.

So that was their main focus. So we started talking about doing a deal. Next thing I just started writing. So by the time they actually hired me, I had written four episodes of it. Wow. And so I brought that in. I was like, this is what I want to do.

And I can't leave town because I'm working on finishing Lion King, which is a big deal for Disney, which is the same parent company, right? And that's how we built, that's how we got the support to build the volume and develop that filming system you were talking about. I was going to say,

so did the stage craft come before Mandalorian or the Mandalorian? No, after, because once we started to do Mandalorian, I said, look, here's some tech, there was some technology I was aware of. And nobody, it was the type of thing where everybody knew you could do it, but nobody did it.

And so I came in and said, okay, here's the goal. And we assembled a group of people, ILM, Unreal, Lux screens, Magnopus, there were a bunch of tech partners that came together along with my company, Golem Creations. And we all got together and started to work out how you would do this. And we didn't know that you could actually

accomplish so many shots in camera. It was an experiment at the time. But we started doing little tests, even when I was working on Lion King, where you'd move the camera, you'd have a TV screen and you'd see the backgrounds move. And it seemed very promising. So part of that was to allow me to finish

this big high priority film Lion King for them without leaving town and start to prep and work on this. And that's why there were other directors that came in. I wrote pretty much all, almost all the scripts. That's something else I learned really as helpful to is to have a unified voice to be very involved with the writing process and not have it. And you can have other people direct it,

but to have a constant, a consistent voice in the writing is really, is really helpful to make it feel like that. Yeah, bring Scotty over. Scotty, you want any? What do you want to know? Keep it loose, Sean. Yeah.

Baby Yoda is 50 years old. I love the way he screams. Hey! What's going on? I wrote down a question. You did. Let's hear the question. Let's hear it.

Well, you ask it. Scotty, get on the mic here. A guest question. Call her. Okay, so here's my question. I know it's long. Eat the mic. You've probably been asked this a thousand times.

There we go. I apologize. Obviously, The Mandalorian is such a phenomenal show. We love it. We love it so much. Are you crying, Scotty? And it's a great show for filling in the gaps for some of our favorite characters

from the original Star Wars movies, like Luke and who's made a few appearances. And I don't know, I'm sure some of us fans were wondering, could we possibly see any of our other favorite characters show up maybe in upcoming episodes who we know to be alive at this point in time? It's like we're at Comic-Con. I know.

Hi, I'm Scott from Los Angeles. You know, first of all, I can't really answer that one. But I would say that part of what we try to do with The Mandalorian is, I'll still answer. Oh, he can hear. He can hear. Or he can. Is it one of those things?

So I'll hang up and take the answer off air, like on NPR. So I think the important thing is for us is that there's so many different areas of Star Wars and that we could bring all of it together into one show and pull in things from the sequels, from the prequels, from the original trilogy, from the animated, and even the extended universe. Yeah, it's kind of, it's amazing.

It felt like Star Wars was splitting into a lot of different areas. And part of what we want to do is pull it all together because, you know, Star Wars is a big tent, you know? And there's, and whether it's kids who are growing up, watching Clone Wars or millennials who had the prequels, like everybody's, everybody's invited to the party.

And so sometimes it makes sense. In the case of Luke Skywalker, as we were figuring out, if he had to bring him to a Jedi and who that Jedi would be, it made, it wouldn't have made logical sense for it to be anybody but Luke. So we always want the story to point us there. How about that CGI on Mark Hamill just come?

I mean, that was unbelievable. That was crazy. What's also crazy is if you look at the difference between the first time we did it and the next time we did it, you'll see how much all of that AI based It's like Mark Hamill was 20 years old again. I mean, it's not.

God, you fucking people need to read a book. Jesus Christ. Christ. All right. You know what? You know what we got to talk about? GeForce, that's the movie we did together. You thought about it.

We are both in it. We are both in it. That's the only time we work together. You, me, Galfinakis, Bill Nyee. You know what Galfinakis told me after that? I, he said, that's the, that's, I promise myself after that film that I would never read a script high before I,

is what he said to me. See you into that experiment. That's amazing. But let's honestly, let's, let's, let's Did you ever know what GeForce has held it? Why are you moving off of this? Well, I want to get to prehistoric planning. By the way, all my kids, all my kids have gone through 20,

I've gone through like six months where they've loved it when they're like four. Every single one of my kids. It's a bunch of gerbils, right? No. It's guinea pigs. It's guinea pigs. That's what I said.

I was one of the guinea pigs. I was the comic relief. I was the farting guinea pig. I'm sure your friend, your kids liked me. That loved. I was one of the favorites, right? They loved that. I mean, they all loved it at various stages.

Hurly, I play hurly. Anyway, okay, let's go on to prehistoric planning. Now, how did that come about and explain to Tracy in Wisconsin what the hell it is? Tracy, there's a little something called Apple TV Plus. And if you get it, there's a documentary series that looks an awful lot and sounds an awful lot like Planet Earth

with David Attenborough narrating. Done by the BBC and Apple TV that I'm involved with and we create a documentary as though you were able to bring a camera back into the prehistoric, Cretaceous period. Yeah, it's pretty cool. And the reason I'm working on it is, it was a project that they were talking about doing,

partnering up on, but because we had developed technology to create CGI that felt more cinematic and photoreal through all of our innovations on the Lion King, which if you recall, there was no actual photography in that. That was all CGI, but we built a VR environment that we filmed in.

So we actually had the whole crew in VR filming segments around these animated characters. And that's part of why it looks like a, hopefully like a live action movie. Try to explain that a little bit, just so Tracy can understand what that means. Cause I think building the environment that you're filming in VR is not an easy concept necessarily.

No, but it was the way to get- Like my mom's at home. My mom's at home. She's 76. No, sorry, God, she's almost 80. Well, make sure you get it right. She's thrilled. Yeah, I know she is.

Alex, she doesn't mind. She's not offended by stuff like that. So she's at home. How would you explain it to my mom who's 80, what that means? So she's not 85 or something, you know? Calgary is digging. What province is it?

Toronto. Calgary. I don't know. I don't know. 19. She's an Argo fan. She's a big Argo fan. But explain it to somebody.

So virtual reality is something where you wear goggles and wherever you turn your head and move, you perceive through hearing and sight as though you're immersed in that reality. So it's like a video game. She understands that. So we create the environment with artists. As you would for CGI, we create the environment

and the characters. And so if you're wearing your goggles, you could walk around and look at and interact with the environment and the characters. That allows us like a multiplayer game to bring the crew into that virtual environment. And so you could have a cinematographer and a gaffer in there setting lights up virtually.

You could have a camera operator set up a camera. And we would, you know, if you came to our stages down there in Silicon Beach, down there off Jefferson, Culver City, that area, we had set up their camera systems without cameras. Dolly tracks without cameras on them. We had sensors. So all your crew is wearing goggles?

So some of them would be wearing goggles to scout, but you could also watch a screen because a Dolly grip isn't necessarily having to see a fully dimensionalized version of the performer. They just have to look at their marks. So they would tape marks off on a track and move the chassis. And that gave the whole thing a feel

as though it was being filmed in live action. Wow. So by building these tools, it gave it that live action feel in addition to really good CGI that MPC was able to do. The house that we work with. So we had all these tools that we built around how do you make Lion King look live action?

And we use those tools and applied them to the task of how do you create a show that looks like a documentary filmed in real life of dinosaurs? And so if you look at Prius Dark Planet, if you have Apple TV Plus, you could take a look at it. We've got a season up, we're getting ready to launch another that we're just finishing up now.

And you could, or you could look on trailers if you don't have that and take a look at it. And then we had David Attenborough and just his voice over. Yeah, pretty cool. And it's all based in real science, which again, I geek out on because I get to learn so much about the behavior. Archeology has made so many breakthroughs

in the last few years where you start to learn about how they reared their young, where they lived, that they had feathers, they were colorful, they had, it was a whole different sense of what dinosaurs were than when I grew up. I forgot about that time, what were we doing? Was it couples retreat and I went in your trailer

and you walked in my trailer, I remember this. Yeah, you were watching this series of videotapes at the time, I think the DVDs. That's a good memory, it was DVDs, it was a box set of, it was called Big History. Big History, David Christian would teach a course in it. It was one of those, it was before, remember it was before like podcasts or before digital.

So we are watching on the viewer in the trailer. And Big History, I'm sure it's still available, was a fascinating course because it starts off with the Big Bang, talking about the world through the lens of physics, and then through the formation of the stars and planets, and then it talks about chemistry, and then it talks about geology as the planets formed,

and then it eventually talks about anthropology, and comes all the way through history today with complex systems and the patterns. Yeah, this sounds amazing. It was just, I mean, we just go in there and we just watch the TV for like hours. Jason, you said that behind, when you were like 16, here we go.

On Ventura, behind the Ralphs, you had a lot of chemistry on the Big Bang, right? You had a lot of chemistry on the Big Bang, right? You were 16. And then I told you I had three callbacks for the show, the Big Bang. No, but you've always been interested in, I love that about you.

You're, there's so much about you that is beautifully silly, and without sort of pretense, and then there's another part of this super big brain in you, and you just, you're a real inspiration, Mr. And also, does everybody know that we work together one of my first jobs in town?

That's right. We're on a pilot together. Wait, I think, did I get fired? I think I got fired from that show. I think, I might be confusing with another one, but I did get fired off the pilot. You were the big star. You were when they got you.

That was the big win. We never went to air, by the way, but it was a big thing for me. I got a phone call that I was going to be replaced, and then 48 hours later I heard that they were actually not going to pick up the show. So I had to live with it. I had the honor of being fired before.

Yeah, being fired, and then the whole show got fired. Maybe without Jason. No, let's not do it at all. Is that what happened? Wait, what was it? What was it? It was, we played comedy writers on a, like, proscenium, multi-cam sitcom pilot.

Back in, it must have been like, 92, three? Did Robbie Benson direct that? No, am I thinking it was his mouse? It may have been. He directed a pilot that I did. Was it the same one? It might have been that one. Yeah, our brains are going.

Because he directed a friend, my friend's episode. I think he did direct, no, he directed, I don't know. Anyway, it was, I loved you then, I loved you now. We got to work together, man. That was the big time for me. Did you remember when you were working on Iron Man 2? Yes, Justin Thoreau. And what I was going to say, when you were reading this,

when the pages- He has sleeves back then? When the pages were coming in, could you get the sense they were written by arms with no sleeves on them? I noticed that nobody had sleeves in the script. Yeah. Which I was curious about.

That was the one thing. Like, I don't know if that's going to play. That's his hallmark. And the dog was going to start. That's his hallmark. He was great. He was a writer, he had worked with, he was a writer on Tropic Thunder.

He and Ben still are wrote Tropic Thunder and then Downey won, yeah. Downey was a very big, you know, he was like, this is the guy that could, you know what I mean? Because it needs to be a voice too for Tony Stark. It wasn't just, you know, a lot of it came from him in the first one. Yeah.

So I think that he had a really good experience with Justin, he's a very smart guy. And like, again, another one who's an actor. Actor, right? But you talk to him about a lot of subjects. He knows a lot about a lot of things. And just a really, you know, has a really good ear for him. I saw, he sent me a picture the other night,

by the way, from New York. And great. And I love, you know, Thoreau is one of our best buddies, but he did send me a picture from New York out at night. He thought he was, he thought he was taunting me. And it was six degrees in New York, I knew because I'd seen on the weather and he was inside this establishment with no sleeves.

And I was like, hey man, it's fucking January. My guns like that, you couldn't get sleeves on me either. I would too, I would too. John, what does it take for you to get excited enough to treat us all to some of your great acting? Or are you just so satisfied with your creative? No, I love doing it. Well, with a guy like you.

You're funny as hell. But where does it sit in your temptations, you know? I mean, does it have as much of a pole as directing does? It depends who it's with and what it is. And it's not the same thrill as in the beginning when can I do this at all, right? And you just wanna make sure that you're in a situation where you're with people that you're having a good time.

Because if you're not, I don't know that I could fake it as well as you need to. And also like, I love, look, when you get to work on your own stuff, you start, you have a lot of control over a lot of things. And so you use that part of your brain. And when you go on somebody else's set, if you bring that energy, it's terrible.

Like you have to be a great, and actually the people I've worked with who are the best actors are other filmmakers. Because they show up and they just want, where do you want me to stand? They're like the first ones on their marks. And like that's how I am when I go on somebody else's set. And I like to do the,

I've been doing the Marvel stuff. And I think that's been really cool because I have to keep that connection. A lot of the characters that were around are gone now. And I'm like one of the ones who's around since the first Iron Man. And I'm still there for the kids who grew up. I'm like the Hagrid of Marvel.

That's hysterical. You know, like a, hopefully like a friendly, goofy presence that offers some comfort. All right, last question. What, with all the smart stuff and great stuff that you're doing, what's the dumbest thing you find yourself doing on a daily or weekly basis?

Do you have any guilty pleasures that the audience would be surprised by? Well, there's a podcast I listen to religiously. Oh, right, your brain. That's my dirty pleasure, my guilty pleasure. That qualifies. No, I do love the podcast. And it's started off as something

where I didn't know if I liked it just cause I knew all of you. And it was like, I was like, and I don't get out a lot. So I was like, oh, this is like hanging out. And I'm just not talking. Like I got to hang out with you guys. And I just had no pressure to be funny. No pressure to go, you know,

I didn't have to belly the car or drive. And then now that it's such a success. And so many people when I mentioned I was going to do this show, they were like really like jealous. Like, oh my God, that's so fun. How do you get, what do they like? So it's really great to watch you all do something

that something that you did for fun. Because you liked it and you were interested in it. Turned into one of the most successful projects for all of you. You know what I mean? That this is like such a win. The most successful for me, 40 years. This is like the biggest, loudest thing I've ever done.

And I love that this moment allows rewards, passion and authenticity that other people will seek it out and they sense it and they'll find it. And how relaxed everything is. And all the things that we've all worked on together apart. There was this pressure in the background of if you do this, you'll get to succeed or we'll let you do more of this.

Or we'll pick up this pilot if we like, if it tests well. And then this is the most unstructured. The concept is so is like one surprise guest and we're going to talk. And everybody's drawn to it. And it just shows you that all those rules and all those structures and the gatekeepers, all of that is a function of the dynamic

around the economics of the business. And then here you all come through and do something where it's all of you hanging out. And as somebody who's hung out with all of you, it really feels exactly that way. And that people get a glimpse of it and that they enjoy it. And it actually turns into there's a business model to support it and a way to distribute.

I think it's really encouraging. And to people out there who are going to, trying to figure out their way, it's a real lesson. Yeah, I was actually just saying that this morning, it was a real lesson to me that it shouldn't be a surprise that the thing that I think for all three of us that we have pushed least on or pressed least on in our careers has ended up being the most successful thing.

And it is a great lesson. You just sort of just follow your instinct and just walk down the hill and... Well, we've never, as you know, and John, as you got to witness when we were first doing the intro, we never talk about what we're going to talk about. Here's the other thing we've all worked on.

We've all worked on the Kyle Gas poker game back in the day about 15 years ago when we all played. But it's very much that same dynamic, right? It's just sitting down at a table and just having a laugh. And we never talk about what we're going to talk about ever, truly. Well, thanks for having me on it. Dude, thank you for fucking coming on. Your story is awesome.

It's really cool. And I might add, when I see you and we hang out, however few and far between that is, I'm always so thrilled to see you and so enamored with you and everything that you do. I just, it's just, I'm so giddy because I'm just like, you know, from the first time we met 20 decades or two decades ago,

I mean, you know, it's really cool. Thank you. Also, John, I will implore you, from a guy who started doing swingers again, which is so great. And then you went and you've gone to such lofty heights and all the MCU and then the Star Wars and all that stuff. And then in between that, you do the chef.

I implore you to keep going back and please and give us another like indie like story, like a small story, please. Cause you're really good at that. You're really, really good at that. Thank you, man. Thank you all. And, you know, keep doing what you're doing.

It's really wonderful. And it's wonderful also to feel like I could just jump on something like this and to feel like I've been hanging out with you all the way through, even though it's been a one-way street and especially through the lockdown, you know what I mean? Through the pandemic, it was really nice to have your voices and your presence and it just, everybody was so isolated.

And I felt like it was really comforting, reassuring. And it's just, it's just enjoyable. And I'm glad that it's, your guys are still going and that everybody recognizes. And we can't wait for the next Avatar. That's you too, right? Yeah, that's me. Sean, please check your text.

John, well, thanks for being a part of it, buddy. Thanks, John. Really appreciate it. And hopefully we'll see you soon in person. All right. Bye, John. Bye, John. Bye, pal.

Thank you. Bye. Oh, he's gonna do it. He's gonna do it. He's gonna slam it. Shut the slam. No, slam it. I have a little switch on my thing.

I had installed just for smartless. That goes over my camera, see? Nice. There it is. Perfect. Boy, I sure liked that fellow. Yeah, that was great. I mean, it was so good to check in from him.

You forget about how many things he's done in sort of different shapes and sizes, right? Well, and I mentioned the thing, I mentioned it earlier, comparing him to like George Lucas in the sense that like he not only tells great stories and makes things that we all want to see, but like the tech part of it too,

is like there's not a lot of people who do that. And he doesn't make a big thing about letting people know how many important things he's touched, how many things that we love that he's done that we might not realize he's been a part of. I just think that's really, I think that's really cool. Yeah. I mean, think about it.

He wrote swingers and starred in swingers with fans. And then he directed Elf, one of the all-time, an absolute Christmas classic. I mean, in their top two. Yeah, for sure. Of Christmas. It's a wonderful life and Elf. Yeah, yeah.

And the swingers, by the way, but before you go past that, like that kind of started a bit of a comedic style and tone and what was called. Well, it set the tone for all the Marvel movies. No, no, no, swingers just sort of set the tone for a lot of some of the comedies that populated, what was it, the 90s?

Yeah. Yeah. And with him and Vince starting to work through all this and Stiller and Owen Wilson and Jack Black and just sort of that wheel that was sort of birth, I think, right in there. Oh, the comedy wheel. Remember the comedy wheel?

And then, yeah, and as you were saying, then Elf and what that did for that films of that season and then, of course, yeah, what he did to set the tone for Marvel and all the other derivative films in that genre is pretty impressive. So we didn't talk about the film. Here we go. I love the way he's teeing himself.

We didn't talk. It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. Hey guys, have you ever thought about it? You know, it's so embarrassing. And by the way, with this kind of buildup, it better be fun. It's really good.

We didn't talk about the film that he actually acted in with Jason, which was and Melissa McCarthy, which was by Denny Teasy. No, no, no, no, no, rejected at the gate. You see how timid he is about it. What the fuck could he even say it above a whisper? He was so ashamed of that. Fuck.

Is Postmates at the door? Do you have to run? Is that why you're trying to get out? Do you have to pee? Do you? Sorry, before we let you go, because we're rejecting that. What's on the docket for dinner tonight? Yeah.

You'll love this. You'll love it. You'll love it. You'll love it. You'll love it. It's roasted chicken with vegetables. Gotti, what are we having for dinner? Oh, fuck.

What else? And some other stuff. And like mashed potatoes. Oh, mashed potatoes. So like a full, well, basically like a holiday dinner tonight? Let's be honest. It actually does look like a holiday dinner. Let's be honest.

Is it chicken with mashed potatoes or is it mashed potatoes with chicken? And then what do we have? And then so no dessert, right? So I don't know. We'll probably have chocolate chip cookies. But listen, if I, once I'm done eating all of that and I have to leave the table, you know, because to eliminate. Because you can't eat another.

Bye. Bye. Yes. I don't want to be a loser myself. Yeah. I don't want to be a loser. Of course. Yes.

Yes. That's pathetic. Yeah. Smart. Lost. Smart. Lost. Smart.

Less. Smart. Less. Smartless is 100% organic and artisanly handcrafted by Michael Grant Terry, Rob Armjalf and Bennett Barbicow. Smart. Less. Smart.

Less. That's our next episode will be out in a week wherever you listen to podcasts or you can listen to it right now early on Amazon music or early and add free by subscribing to Wondry Plus in Apple Podcasts or the Wondry app.