SmartLess - "Kelly Clarkson"

Episode Date: February 26, 2024

“No stranger to a giggle,” we welcome the lovely Kelly Clarkson. Small towns & big cities, the art of the lie, and a gift horse’s mouth. Buy your friend their dream car… it’s an all-new SmartLess.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Guys, who's fired up to do some podcasts? And what kind of energy do you feel when you're going to just podcast this shit out of something? I'm going to do it. I raced downstairs. I didn't even take a shower. I put my headphones on. I saw you guys. I got really excited.

We're going to chat today. And then I'm going to take a shower. You don't have anything prepared for this cold open? You didn't eat anything? No. I usually have a hot coffee holding in your hand yeah it's the that's his first little wrist when he's typing do you do that much typing where you need a little pat for your wrists I just had the I had carpal tunnel in my hand uh-huh and then what happened decided to use the other hand all right good for you. Welcome to Smart List. Smart. Last.

Smart. Last. Smart. Last. So we already know that our mystery guest is a female and she's no stranger to a giggle. She keeps it light. She likes to giggle.

Yeah. She likes to giggle. And that's what we know so far. So... Are you doing early guessing game? Yeah. Let's start. You know what?

Give me the first letter of the first name. No. Okay. First letter of the last name. No. Okay, first letter of the last name. No. Okay. Jesus. No, all right.

I just, I was like, you know what? You know what, no. And I should go, yes, I did, I should play on it. No, no. All right, well then let's get into our opening pattern. Or some pattern. Sean, do you have anything prepared? I didn't have anything prepared.

Here we go, hit access to the file. But I'm drinking tea. I was going to ask you, do you leave your tea bags in or do you take them out? Today mine are in. That's something sexual about that. I know. There is something. The last time you were tea bagged in or out.

Oh, it was a teabag in. Now Sean, are you a little bit under the web? He is. And I was just telling Jason, I hope I didn't get you guys sick on Tuesday. And I reminded him. I don I hope I didn't get you guys sick on Tuesday. And I don't think I did. I reminded him that it was all, there was no open mouth kissing at all.

It was all closed. I kept asking you actually to stop kissing and don't look at me. Because you usually say eyes on me, open eyes, eyes on me. Eyes please, eyes please. Hey, that's a good question. When you guys kiss your significant other, do you keep your eyes open or do you close them?

Whole time. Whole time open? The whole time open. It's so great. Right open, looking at, reacting for reaction. I like to stare right into the makeup artist's eyes when they're powdering me. It really freaks them out.

Yeah, no blinking, just hard eye contact when they're powdering me. No. Tracy, getting powdered is something that's common and not freaky for people in front of the camera. But Jason, you famously don't wear a lot of makeup when you do your gigs. Well, the stuff I've been doing lately,

you're not meant to look healthy or happy. You've got that cover. And that role you've been playing for 20 years. Yeah, I was going to, I'm going into a new thing. Or it's, I just don't think I'm going to be much in the makeup trailer at all. Yeah, you got a real look going these days. I know, right?

This stupid hair. I think I do need to get it thinned out. It's gross. No, no, no, no, no. Right a bummer. Hair is too thick. It's too thick. I mean, No, Shani, Shani, I noticed you sneezing. No, no, I caught that was a cough Oh, there was a cough your coffee. I'm saying if you guys feel anything by Saturday or Sunday. You're in the clear

Okay, I got a weight. This is there's a five-day incubation period in your virus. Yeah, great I think we're fine. All right. What about Scotty? Does he have it? He had it before, but I didn't get sick from him. Well, we know why. Yeah. Why? He's been on the watch for me. Listener, Sean's really on the skids with Scotty. There's a countdown for the...

No. No. That's gonna be available any minute. No. You guys are about the best couple I've ever met. I know. We all have great partners. We do.

And I was just describing Scotty the other day to, somebody's asking me, and I said, he's just the nicest, sweetest dude. He's so considerate. He is, and he looks like a box. He's in the shape of a box. Okay. Well, I didn't get into that, but.

A boxy bear. But he is such a sweet sort of legitimately like considerate person. Yeah, he's the nicest person I've ever met. And not from Canada. I know. I know. You'd think he would be. Shockingly, I know.

All those Canadians are super nice. We'll introduce Sean and I to a couple of Canadians the other day who were just like right out of the middle of the page for like Yeah, well well intention tell you Canadians are friendly, but like I don't know well then you meet them. It's like yeah Yeah, they're all like the nicest people in the world, and it's not learned. It's not contrived. It's it's just so genuine Well, you know Paula's Canadian, but Jenny's American but I wasn't getting his nice of I bought for her. Yeah Oh, genuine. Well, you know, Paul is Canadian, but Jenny's American. But his little kid is Canadian. I wasn't getting his nice vibe off of her.

Yeah. Interesting. That's a good point. You're getting a selfish kind of self-adorbs. Something domestic, yeah. I tell you, I tell you he's got a pretty good vibe. Oh, nice. This is a segue.

Here comes Giggles. Tell you he's got a pretty good vibe. Is our guest today. Do you like him? Do you like people who can do different things? She is a juggler from Northern Saskatchewan. They can go on to Broadway, Sean, you like Broadway? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. They can go on to Broadway, they can sing songs,

they can sell records. They could sell 25 million albums worldwide. 40 million singles. Have a multi Emmy award winning daytime talk show. Can be really plugged into the heart of America because this person was found and discovered in the heart of America. She's one of the most successful... Kelly Clarkson. Kelly Clarkson.

Kelly Clarkson. Kelly Clarkson. Yeah, I got it. Hi Kelly. I was like, hello. Willie guessed my guess the other day. Now I got you back. I know you did. You did.

Hi Kelly Clarkson. Hi Kelly Clarkson. Kelly, I haven't seen you since Saturday Night Live maybe? Oh my gosh. Okay, so I was going to bring it up. I don't even know if you, I don't know if you remember that I was on there with you, but. Of course. I was terrified of you.

Oh, welcome to the show. No, you were nice. No, you were so nice. I was like, I literally, I remember telling my band, I was like, I had like a whole prep talk. I was like, don't fucking talk. You're gonna say something stupid. I was like, I was like, just smile and just stand there.

And I was like, very nervous. That whole week I was petrified. Was that your first? Oh, you did, you're amazing. And you were so nice. I just think when you are a fan of someone, so much so, and you love their personality and they, you know, you're very charismatic,

you're funny and quick. And so I was like, just don't say something stupid I don't think I even spoke much you do you might you might want to withhold on the personality part you know what I mean just give it a little I'm like a dry wit asshole so he's right down there oh well there's a lot of smart let's go you're gonna love him you're gonna love them. Now I have a question about, like I remember, I'm so sorry you get these questions all the time.

That's okay, go ahead. In 1999 or 2000, when American Idol first started, and then I remember Megan Mullally, who I did Will and Grace with, she's like, you gotta come one. And I didn't watch the show until the last. Remind Tracy what Will and Grace is. I love, no, I'm telling you, I love her and Nick.

I'm obsessed with them. They're great. I know I love, no, I'm telling you, I love her and Nick. I'm obsessed with them. They're great. I love them too. And they, and Megan called me in her dressing room, she's like, you gotta watch this show. I'm like, what is it? It's American Idol. And of course, everybody knows the story.

You know, little town girl makes it big on the show and then becomes this big pop star, blah, blah. So, but there's a sense that I've always felt around you that America is like your hours. Like, do you ever, do you constantly get bombarded by people who feel like they had a hand in your success? Oh, absolutely. But I mean, that's a very true statement.

So, for all of us, really. Yeah, I mean, I think it's true. Where would we be without the American audience? But I mean, that show is so massive and it was, and you were the first one. And then, so you're easy to root for because everybody loves you and you're so likable and I love you.

Debatable, but yes. And, but to see you go from the little town girl that nobody knew to every single thing that you conquered over the years, I imagine people come up to you on the street and just be like, have a sense of ownership almost in a different way. Yeah, I mean, I think it works for me

because like I said, I'm from a very small town. So I'm kind of used to like that. Like even doing like talent shows as a kid or like even doing musicals or you know, I've kind of used to like everyone knowing your name. It's like cheer. So you know, like I'm used to that vibe. And I think that's why people are always like,

oh, you're so open with like any human. I'm like, yeah, we're really all the same. And on your talk show, you're just, you're very open, you talk about everything. Yeah, I love that, Kelly. You're just like, well, it's not really that much of an effort to not be an asshole. Like what are you saying? Well, it depends on really that much of an effort to not be an asshole. Like, what are you saying?

Well, it depends on the person, Jason. Right. Sometimes there's a lot of effort. Yeah. But no, it's like, I think because I have that small town mentality, it's always been very easy for me and I don't mind, like I always say, I still at 41, like we'll be at Walmart in Butte, Montana

and go, thank you, because they're like, oh, I voted for you. And I'm like, thank you, that changed my life. I was a pretty great solid waitress, but like I really like what I'm doing now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like, thank you, but now you're blocking my Range Rover. Okay. No, wait, Kelly, Kelly, so speaking of that,

like now we're on that sort of the American Idol thing. And I watch you too, like everybody, when that, especially we're on that sort of the American Idol thing, and I watch you too, like everybody, especially that first season, and you were undoubtedly, I would say, and I might get some pushback, I think you're the greatest American Idol that there ever was. You were the first and you were the best by far.

I would not argue. I'll just concur. I'm just kidding. I know you would. I'm just kidding. No, but you legitimately have a great voice. Without such a discovery, would that show have really carried on

to the heights that it was? Like look what they can find. Yeah, who, no, I mean, believe me, it's thinking everything I got right now, the entire time I just wanna go, since you've been gone. Anyway, but, and I love, but what was that process for you?

How did that come about, American Idol? Like, you know, you saw an ad in a paper. It was on Craigslist. Like, how did that go down? Oh my God, Craigslist was not around. Was it not? 2001? Was it?

2001, too. Wait, let me see. Can I see if I can get this right? Yes. Well, I'd rather have her answer it, but okay. No, but wait. I'm curious to know if you know it. Craigslist.

A friend challenged you or like to go on and if you went on and got on, or one or something, you'd get her a car or something like that? Something like that, yes. Well, I literally, my place had burned down the Croft Apartments off of Melrose, and literally the day we moved in,

we had moved from this other place, and the day we moved in, it burned down, and I ended up having to sleep in my car for like three days and I was like, okay, I can't like, I can't sustain this. So my plan was to go back home to Texas, makes more money come out because I don't know if you all know, but it's expensive to live in Los Angeles, especially when broke with three jobs.

And anyway, so I on my way home, one of my friends, Jebby, Jessica, told me about this audition. On your way home from one of your jobs? Is that where it was? I know, like on my way home from California to Texas. To Texas, okay, sorry. Yeah, it was like right after, yeah. And so I got home and I didn't know what it was.

I didn't even know it was a TV show to like the third audition. Because you know, they have you go and, they had us go in like these just random rooms, like in like, for the producers, and you don't know anybody, you don't know what they're doing. Nobody had heard of Pop Idol,

which there had been one season of Pop Idol in the UK. Nobody knew that. And so I didn't know what it was. And anyway, I told, after I made it through the first rounds or whatever, I told Jebi, I was like, because honestly, I didn't think I had to win. But I was like, y'all totally buy you a car if I win. I won, so I bought her the car.

That's amazing. What'd you get her? Was it a new car? It was her dream car. I think it. What'd you get her? Was it a dream car? It was like her dream car. I think it was like a Firebird or something. It was like over 20 years ago, but I believe it was like a Firebird or something. Firebird? Yeah, it was like something.

Or not a Firebird. No. It was like a Mustang. A Mustang. I don't remember what it was. It was like a sports car, but it was like badass. But I wasn't, I'm not in a sports car. Were you surprised that you won or had you already experienced

a pretty good level of success locally? No, I mean, I was surprised. I mean, yeah, I'd won like, I'd won like the burles and talent show. Yeah, right, wow. But like exactly, prestigious. But you know, when you're a kid, you do those kind of things.

And I'd had like some success in the sense of like, you know, following through on some dreams that I had like locally, but like, you know, when I was a kid, but no, I mean, I'd never won anything of like real importance or done anything. And I am like a wallflower generally. Like I don't, nobody even knows I'm in the room generally.

So I did not think I was gonna win that. What was the process? So what, from the first audition, so you heard about this audition where they were gonna have, you didn't know it was a show, it was just they were looking for singers, is what you heard, is that right? Yeah.

And so they go, so you go into, you audition in Texas, and you go to the first audition, from the first audition to winning, how long was that process? Oh, like within like a year. Like it was months because it was the first season and they were still putting it all together and it was an English-based company.

So people were coming in and out. Are you singing the same song in every stage, every audition? They'd like you to, or they did, they asked us to. I was about to sing, I said yes to singing at someone's wedding and I was singing at last. They wanted me to sing at last. And so I think I sang at last for the first three. And then they showed this on YouTube, I think,

or released it sometime, but then they asked me to sing something faster. And I was like, seeing anything but the Mulan Rouge song. Cause everyone was singing itchy, itchy, yaya, yaya. and I was like, sing anything but the Moulin Rouge song because everyone was singing itchy, itchy, yaya, yaya. I was like, I was like, I literally in that moment was like, anything will do but that song because everyone was singing it. So I went into some Madonna song, which was random

because normally I don't generally sing Madonna, but... So within a year, you go driving home to so you can make more money so you don't have to live in your car to being an international superstar and that that kind of whiplash on your life forget professionally yeah whiplash on you on you sort of spiritually emotionally all that kind of stuff the The weight of it. The weight of it. And some people might say, oh, poor Kelly Clarkson.

You became rich and famous in a year. Whatever. I'm one of those people too, by the way. Of course. But it is a- Was that Jane Buffett that you were just quoting? That was Jane Buffett. That was my good friend, Jane Buffett.

No, she never said that, Jane. That's just a great Jane accent. I know, she's the best. Was, what was that like, Kelly, for you? Like sort of, not the day after you win, but in the sort of the time after as your life just has a dramatic shift. What was that like for you as a person,

as a human being walking this planet? You know, really cool moments and then like a lot of not great ones. So I think I'm a very trusting person. Well, I think the scary part comes when it's more the human factor. It's not the working. I've always had like three or four jobs at a time. I've always enjoyed being busy.

I like being productive. So you know, that wasn't a, it wasn't so much the scheduling was intense, but it wasn't too much. It's the human factor, it's the lying, and it's the people, it's like, what are we doing here? It's the lying, like literally, and that really got me down, the human factor got me down.

Yeah, there was an article written in this old paper in LA, I don't even think they printed anymore, called the LA Weekly, this is like, I don't know, 30 years ago, that's like a cover story called The Fine Art of Lying. And talking about the relevance and the necessity of it, specifically in the entertainment industry, I'm sure it's pervasive in other industries as well, but specifically that they cited all these examples.

And it's really true, I become sort of immune or sort of numb to it, But if you really think about it, if you think about your conversations with your team, with the other people that you work with, there is a level of lying that I myself do as well, that you kind of have to do just to protect the people's feelings that you love in this business. Cause there's so much rejection,

there's so much sort of, yeah, it's not a fit, blah, blah, blah, that you have to, if you're empathetic at all, reshape and sort of tell what I like to think are white lies. But you do have to get used to it. I don't know, you do get used to it, but I don't think that you are, or numb to it. I mean, I know, for example-

But what do you mean lies about what? Well, lies about your, hey, I saw, but what do you mean lies about what? Like, well lies about your, your, hey, oh, I, I saw your movie the other day. Oh yeah, what'd you think? Now, if you didn't like it, but your friend's at that person. Now, obviously this is not some big thing that I'm revealing, but there is sort of a, I find that there is a lot of it that you need to do in this town

if you care about the people that you're talking to because there's so much rejection. Yeah, everybody works hard. And the difference of opinion, yeah. By the way, I, for what it's worth, I loved Good Night Oscar. Oh yes, and me. I think I liked it more.

I loved it a lot, Shawn, I thought you were so good at it. Oh, Shawn, so gifted. I loved it. Good Night Oscar, what a tribute. And we will be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. If I had an extra hour of my day, I'd probably either take a nap or go for a walk.

Why those two things? Because they clear my head, they make me feel better, I can think easier, I can connect with people easier, and I'm in a better mood. And so for you guys, I would ask, the question is time for what? If time was unlimited, how would you use it? How would you decide what's important enough

to make time for? Therapy can help you find what matters to you so you can do more of it. I've benefited from therapy for a long time now. I can't express to you guys enough how much greatness I get from it, how much better I feel, how much better other people see that I feel.

It's good all the way around. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Learn to make time for what makes

you happy with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash smartlist today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelphelp.com slash smartlist. Thank you to FanDuel for supporting this episode of SmartLess. Get buckets with your first bet on FanDuel America's number one sports book because right now new customers get $150 in bonus bets with any winning $5 bet. That's $150 if your bet wins. Within the app, you have the ability to bet on all your favorite NBA players and teams with QuickBets, live same-game parlays, exclusive props, and more. You know, I wish we could take bets on how quickly Jason and or will teams with quick bets, live same game parlays, exclusive props and more. You know, I wish we could take bets on how quickly Jason and or will will bring up the subject of golf, like, you know, to the second.

So like, I would say like, I bet you it's going to be two minutes, 32 seconds before they talk about golf. That'd be fun, right? Doesn't everybody feel like they'd win at some point if we just kept betting on it? Anyway, just visit fandual.com slash smartlist and shoot your shot. Fandual, official sportsbook partner of the NBA, 21 plus exclusions apply. See show notes for full disclaimer. This episode of smart list is brought to you in part by Skinny Pop Popcorn. Hey guys, looking for some excitement in 2024?

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well, you know, you touch on something which is, but, and kind of actually going on what Sean said, which is that you belong, there is that feeling of like, you, I think a lot of Americans identified with you because you were the first person who kind of was plucked out of a blim I think a lot of Americans identified with you because you were the first person who kind of was plucked out of a blim and became a superstar. And I guess that's what I'm wondering about is, after that you are, because people felt a certain sense

of ownership of you. And a proxy of like the American dream. Yeah, yeah. So how hard is that? That's not hard. Like that's not, I mean, I get that. I don't know how, but I still like, I can still like be objective and go,

man, that's incredible that someone made it in that sense. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, and it kind of, I think what it did just for speaking to people and meet and greet and whatnot for years and years is it really gave people like a, I don't know what, like a, it kind of gave people that thing of like,

no, really you can't accomplish anything. Like your dreams and whatever it is, you could actually make this happen. Like this person was from nowhere, like a cocktail address, like, you know, nowhere near making it. And they actually film that stuff, right? They like, they deliver your story too too much like they do in the Olympics.

They deliver your story to, and then boom, they go live. Here's her singing on stage. Yeah, and I think people relate to that. I think people think maybe I can still do that, or maybe that could be me. I think that it has this sense of hope with it. Aspirational, yeah, yeah, yeah. Vicarious, yeah.

Yeah, well, Shawn, you used to do a lot of meet and beats, right? Yeah, I used to do it. No, no, no, sorry. She said meet and greet. Well, OK. Sorry. Yeah. Sorry.

Well done. Good for you, Sean. Thank you, Joe. So listen, do you remember when you first started immersing yourself into the world of Hollywood and Los Angeles and all that? Do you remember what was kind of foreign to you that you were like, oh, I didn't know you needed makeup every single time.

I don't know. Oh, I got in trouble on American Idol. They were, they were like, so we're about to be on camera. And I was like, I know. And they were like, but you're going to be on camera. And I was like, I know. And then it was like, okay, well, do you want any like makeup or hair? And I was like, no, I'm in a house right now.

You're doing like behind the scenes. Like I was like, I'm not on stage. Like I was like, I mean, I'll do it for stage. I was like, but why are we doing this now? The one producer in particular, very high up, was not a fan of me just because I didn't play that game. And it wasn't even playing the game. Like the other four girls that season were very into,

you know, that stuff. They were very into it. The glam of it, yeah. Yeah, I was like the most amazing person to tour with for those girls, because I was never in the makeup and hair chair. Like I was like, they would have to be forced me to like sit there.

Cause I'm highly allergic. Anything that gets near my eyes, vegan, whoever's brand that says whatever, it still sucks for my eyes. And anyway, so I don't like wearing it. I don't enjoy wearing it. And so that was a big thing. You can't pry me out of the chair, you know?

Yeah, no. I need it. Well, and that's the thing. I adore the people I work with. Even my makeup artist. I love her so much. I was laughing at Jason saying you often like stare directly in their eyes to make it.

We have so many like inside, it's such an intimate setting. Like we're such close friends just because of that. Like, you know, but so I love, I love, you know, the art of it. I love how creative people can be. It's just not my thing. Right, right. So then you, so you don't do it

or you're sort of resistant to it for all the reasons you just outlined. Then you win American Idol. Now you're a pop star and now you've got to release record after record which you do incredibly successfully. So just talk to us a little bit about that. And singing in front of thousands of people.

Exactly. I'm fascinated by, all of a sudden, now you're a mega star sort of overnight, not really. Now of course, people don't realize that you've been working for years trying to do it. You want to do it. Yeah, but it was overnight. I'm okay with that.

Okay, and then, thank you for letting me off the hook. And then you, but then you all of a sudden, it's like, okay, so you win, that's huge. And now you got to record a record, right? You got to make a, you go right into making a record. Is that how it went? Yeah, and it was bumpy from the beginning. Yeah, just because nobody knew what to do with me

cause I liked a lot of different genres of music and everybody kind of had a different plan and nobody knew that it would be successful in their defense. You know, they didn't, you know, they were like, yeah, this kid from this show, like I understand that and understood it then as well, by the way. But it was a little bumpy, and then people don't know this, but it wasn't Clive right

off the bat. There was another person running the label. Clive Davis, yeah. Yeah, it wasn't him running the label. I didn't make my first record with him. So anyway, it was just kind of rocky from the beginning. There was a changing of hands, like a baton passing with the label. There's a lot going on.

Nobody knew what to do. Like it was crazy. Like I think people thought, oh, right off the bat, she had all this money to do it. No, everybody was plugging in our own gear at State Fair's and cow shit and doing State Fair. Like we were like, it wasn't right off the bat. Who was producing the record for you then?

At that point, who are you? Like what was that process? I can't remember, I think it was Peterson. I can't remember his name. It was a long time ago, but he was right in the beginning, he was very nice, like right in the beginning, I'd met him once. And really it was just us in the studio and they were kind of setting me up with different producers

and different writers and stuff. And did you write these songs? Or were these songs that were written by, because a lot of artists I've learned very late in life, some of them write their own music and they perform their music and then others, no better, no worse, they take songs that are already written by somebody who doesn't know how to sing and then they sing. Didn't you sing an Aver Levine song?

Yeah, I've sang a Katie's song, Christina's song, Sia, Pink, Ever. I love writing, and I've been writing since my first album. I've always written on my records, and I've also always just loved finding songs that I feel like I was intended to be the vessel for. Like, I love, I mean, I love interpretation. So, I mean, obviously, even from the talk show, if we skip ahead, like, I love taking a song and even flipping it, like, the production. I just, I love storytelling. I don't flipping it like the production. I just I love storytelling

I don't like acting in the way of storytelling. I like watching it but I like singing and acting in that sense and and with storytelling and That that's always been like a love of mine. So I've done both since the very beginning Sorry, what do you ever see a movie called into the woods? I'd love that that yeah Sorry, Sean, did you ever see a movie called Into the Woods? I'd love that movie. Yeah, with Maelstrom, Emily Blunt, James Cooke. Like would you ever be excited if somebody

brought you something like that, where there's a little bit of acting, but a lot of singing as well, like singing acting? Also known as a musical movie. Go ahead, Jason. Also known as a musical. You know there's a whole genre. Based on a musical.

The guy named Steven Sondheim I hear is really something to take off. He's gonna make it. He's up and if it was a musical. The guy named Steven Sondheim I hear is really starting to take off. He's gonna make it. He's up and coming up. Jason, Jason, do some singing acting for us real quick. Yeah. Hello, I'm hungry. Nice.

Is there something like that? You can sing, Jason. Well, that's not acting, because we know you're hungry. Yeah. So. I would maybe do something like that, but I think I'm like such a fan of what y'all can do.

Like I think it's interesting when actors, especially I have in this talk show, like I meet actors a lot and I never was around actors, only musicians generally. And we're always like looking at the other pasture. Like everybody said it's always greener. You know, everybody's like, oh my God, I'm such a fan of what you do.

It's so like what y'all do is incredible to me. The fact that you can run lines like that, do the same emotion over and over again, whatever it's serious or funny or whatever. And it doesn't wear you out or get monotonous is beyond to me. I feel the same way about musicians. I do, I'm in awe of what you do, your ability to.

No, but I find that that's the case, right? So I, but I have such an appreciation for it. And I've never like, like I did know the winner of American Idol, we found I did know the winner of American Idol. We found out, like, around the top five, that in that little fine print that we signed for the contract, the winner would have to do this movie. And I was, I literally have cried, like, so hard

to get out of that. Like, because I did not want to do it. I did not think it was good. Neither did anyone else. And I did not want to act like that. Like that was not my goal. Did you? Did you have to? Yeah.

I bought the first ticket. I was right in the theater. I had to do it, yeah. And it's not like I was like trying to, you know, poo poo on it or whatever. It's just, I was so worried because my goal was to sing and tour and do stuff like that. And so I was so worried that it was going to ruin any chance of me being taken seriously as an artist.

So I begged my label to at least let me put my single out. Like just let me get a single out. Let me have a chance, like before this comes out. And they did. So that, I think that's what saved me was a single out. Let me have a chance, like before this comes out. And they did. So that, I think that's what saved me was that first single. What level of pride do you allow yourself to feel that you have taken in what, 20 years, a great step through a door

that wasn't pride open for you by anybody else? I mean, you did that part too. But once you had that platform and all this capital that you were able to build on it, diversify it, and parlay it into this massive, legitimate career such that some people would be really interested to hear that you got started on American Idol. It's much the same way, like, you know,

there's all these people that started on Star Search. It's like, wait, what? Yeah, there are a lot of kids who bought your records who didn't watch you on Idol, right, Jay? Is that where you're getting at? Like there are a lot of people who are fans of yours who don't know that. Exactly, and my question is, do you,

have you sort of just out of admirable humility lost? Are you allowed to feel, do you allow yourself to feel the pride that I think you deserve, that you've done so much with that moment that frankly some others have not from American Idol or any of the other shows? Yeah, I mean, I think for me, what I'm most proud of is even if there's like, I've been told in this business

like, well, you're a sinking ship, you know, and I was like, okay, cool, but as long as I'm at the helm, I'm cool with that. Like as long as somebody else isn't driving it, like that's cool. Like I think that's what I take pride in is like, look, I have as I've been a perfect career, it's obviously been like this, but like,

it's been perfect for me in the sense of like, every decision I've made and everything I've done, it's because I wanted to do it regardless of the outcome. And I think I'm proud of the fact that I don't let pride or ego or even shame if that comes in, you know, at some point when something, you know, or any of that, I don't let that get in the way of it. So how did you, how did you learn that? Because you were like you said, 19 and now you're 40, whatever.

How did you learn how to weed out the good from the bad as you entered the business? Childhood trauma. I think, no, I honestly, that's why people always ask me about my kids and being in the business. I'm like, I'm good for them if they want to do it. I just think because of how I was set up from a very young person and like,

and hearing the things that happened or whatever my life happened and having to navigate that, I think definitely prepared me for the industry and prepared me for a spotlight to be okay to be me, like regardless if you're into it or not. Everybody likes something different, artist subjective, but I think that is fucked up as that sounds.

I think a lot of the traumatic things that happened to me when I was younger really not only built a thicker skin, but I think it also, when you, let's say you hear from someone that's supposed to love you the most, you know what I'm saying in life? And you're like, you didn't quite, that you weren't good enough? I think that when that happens, you're like, well didn't quite, that you weren't good enough. I think that when that happens,

you're like, well, I'm never gonna please anyone. So like, why even aim for it? I'm just gonna have a good time. Like, okay, I'm just gonna like do what I love to do. Interesting. And cause you know, when that person that, or people that are supposed to be there for you the most, like when you get let down, and I know that sounds dark,

but when that happens, I think in your head, you're like, okay, well then, maybe life isn't so about just aiming to please everyone or aiming to receive something. Maybe you just do it because you wanna do it and you never know how many trips around the sun you get. You might as well try whatever you want. Yeah, I think the same way.

I mean, or maybe even said differently if you agree that it sets you up, the necessity becomes being self-sufficient. If you can't rely on those closest to you at certain times, then you learn, well, then I just have to make myself happy. I've got that. Yeah, it's like survival. Yeah, and it's because I was gonna say,

and Sean beat me to the question, like you are so clearly comfortable in your skin and you know, shitty word, I don't have a better one, but you're just lovely. And like, well, you know. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. I love the word. But like who, I was gonna ask you,

who can you attribute that to? I mean, do you have? Yeah, like, because you didn't become a drug addict. You didn't become this or that. Yeah, did you have great parents or parent or uncle or something that really showed you kind of this North Star of like, well, wow, look at the adversity they've gone through

and they're still able to be, you know, loving and giving and warm and open to the people they care about and they're not walking around and bitter and aggrieved. And like it's just, you seem to really have taken whatever negatives you went through and I'm not prying for those, but you seem to have turned them into a positive

and they just taught you coping mechanisms that have yielded this nice balanced personality and vibe. It seems like, yeah. Yeah, I think for me, it wasn't like one person. That's our time. Thank you so much Kelly. That's great. That, I think for me it wasn't one person.

I think it's a village, right? That raises any kid. Like I don't think it's, you know, people are like, oh, it's my mom or it's my dad or it's, you know, whatever. I think obviously that probably is true, but I also think we are raised by our surroundings, regardless of your teachers, your coaches, and sports,

like all your other friends' parents. And I think for some reason, I don't know why or how, but I don't know, I kind of navigated people in a sense of like, I'm gonna take the, I love that part of you. That's a really cool thing. I don't in a sense of like, I'm gonna take the, I love that part of you. Like that's a really cool thing. Like I don't have a lot of positive experiences for this one person in my life that I won't mention.

But the one thing I will say for them is they were always highly complimentary of people, even if it was fake or whatever for them. But growing up, I saw how it made people feel. And I was like, oh, that's lovely for lack of a better word. That's like to make someone feel. And I stole that like for my person. And I was like, I was like, I like that.

I like to make people feel like that. I like to compliment people. But you know what, Kelly, there's a real wisdom to that, which is, and Sean, you always say it takes a village people, but you know, we, you, there's a wisdom to this idea that you, whatever you put wisdom to this idea that you, whatever you put out in life is what you're gonna get back, right?

And so, I have no idea who you're talking about or what they're like as a person. They might be a terrible person, but at least in that aspect. They work great. And if you, yeah, so if you, you know, sometimes that feeling of loving somebody, no matter what,

will increase the chances of you getting love back. And that feeling of hurt or whatever comes from a lack of actually putting love out. And I think that there's a balance there. There's like a, and when it comes to people too, you sort of start to identify, I know that as I get older, I identify the people in my life where I go, I make a conscious effort to surround myself

and to spend time with people that I love and I know love me. And then my experience is better. These guys on this, you know, here with us today are two great examples. I probably don't spend more time with anybody than these two guys, you know, in my sort of, and because I love them and they love me.

And so that's a positive experience. Exactly, yeah. We'll be right back. We'd like to thank Helix for supporting the show. You know, we always talk about how great these mattresses are, these Helix mattresses, and how great it is to get some sleep on them. But I have to tell you how great it is

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you focus, reduce stress, and sleep better. As an Audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalog, including the latest bestsellers and new releases. I just started, how am I gonna say this? The subtle art of not giving a fuck. Eek. And obviously the beep is longer than the two letters that it's replacing in between, but it's or three

Because I the C as well. So it's it was you CK In case you didn't know anyway I'm listening to that on audible and it is absolutely fantastic Because not only do I like to read books when I'm not reading, I like to listen to books. Guys, I'm very popular. Anyway, as an Audible member, you can choose one title a month

to keep from the entire catalog. New members can try Audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.com slash smartless or text smartless to 500-500. That's audible.com slash smartless or text smartless to 500 500 that's audible.com slash smartless or text smartless to 500 500 to try audible free for 30 days. Be sure to visit our URL so they know we sent you audible.com slash smartless. Hello I am Alice Levine and I am one of the hosts of Wondries podcast British Scandal.

On our latest series The Race to Ruin, we tell the story of a British man who took part in the first ever round the world sailing race. Good on him I hear you say, but there is a problem, as there always is in this show. The man in question hadn't actually sailed before. Oh, and his boat wasn't sea-worthy. Oh, and also tiny little detail almost didn't mention it. He bet his family home on making it to the finish line. What Insued was one of the most complex cheating plots

in British sporting history. To find out the full story, follow British Scandal wherever you listen to podcasts, or listen early and ad-free on Wondry Plus on Apple Podcasts or the Wondry app. And now back to the show. All right, let's get to the show. You, I would imagine, yeah, do you love it as much as you seem?

I mean, it's like, seems like a fantastic fit for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can we go back to like, how did that happen? You're Kelly Clarkson, you have so many different phases to your life. You're Kelly Clarkson aspiring singer, you're Kelly Clarkson rock star. Not since Arnold Schwarzenegger.

And millions of albums. And then all of a sudden you're like, what? You're one day you wake up and you're like, man, you're looking out the window and you're like, I'm gonna day you wake up and you're like, man, you're looking out the window, you're like, I'm gonna have a talk show. No, no, that's, yeah, I said no the first two times. Like, so they, I was on The Voice and I love NBC. I have a really healthy relationship with them.

Well, they don't lie, so I like that. I've tried to surround myself with people that are just feed it to me. But I had a really good experience on that show with that crew, with those executives. And they came to the studio, I was doing something at the recording studio and they came and they were like,

we really feel like you would be really good at this. And I was like, I really am not a journalist or a comedian and there's like no reason for me to be doing that. Like I just don't think that's a good plan if I'm being frank. And then I said no, and then I said no again. And then all of a sudden it was just, you know, and it was actually my ex who, you know,

we were just laying in bed and he was like, I really feel like you should just, you'd be really good at it because you're really good with people, like you're really good at talking. I don't think it's gonna be like a job for you. Cause like, I think you just are really good at that. And, you know, why not just try it? And I was like, whatever.

So I was like, okay, cool, I'll try it. And I will say even from the, and I say this, okay, cool, I'll try it. And I will say even from the, and I say this without trying to sound any other kind of way, but a lot of people will be like, oh, it's really hard. It's really not. It's like the easiest job I've ever had. Like I know that sounds like nobody wants to hear that. You wouldn't-

Because you're naturally charismatic and friendly and interested and curious. And it's like you've got people skills because you're naturally charismatic and friendly and interested and curious and it's like you just you've got people skills because you're not a dick You know, I mean like well, thank you But I I don't know I just it just is not like the hardest part my talk show is just that I was like Hey, I have this idea we can open with a song before and I could elevate You know other artists that I love or whatever whatever, and do covers, and whatever. And that's the hardest thing, it's like 180,

and it's always like trying to figure out, you know, clearing songs, like, that's the hardest part of the show, is just getting that, because there's no rehearsal time. It is literally like camp, like, you know, when you're a kid and they're like, get on stage, improv it, like, you know what I'm saying?

It's like, it's like, it's, we literally don't rehearse it, We just do it, you know? It's the craziest thing ever. So that part is like the hardest part. The talking part is so easy. Well, except I know you've probably, well, maybe not cause you're like super successful. So, but like, you know, like, have you ever interviewed

someone and you're just like, okay. So that's, that's- Yeah, like, but you don't gotta talk, you know? It's not, it's not yes or no time. I'm like, you know what? I'm here to help you sell your shit. Right, you're not doing me a favor by sitting on the couch. No, that can be hard sometimes.

I'm like, wow, do say more. But that can be tough. But for the most part, I'm pretty good with people. So it's really like the easiest, like I can't even believe we're in season five right now. It feels like not that long. That's so amazing. Yeah, I know.

It's so cool. Yeah, it's just a fun job. And honestly, the support of it, because I literally told the embassy, I was like, I don't. I'm not trying to slap a gift horse in the face, mouth, whatever you say, whatever the saying is. I was like, I'm just, I'm not happy here. I can't continue doing this.

And I don't want to like, I know everybody's put a lot of money and time and we're winning and we're doing well. I was like, but I can't continue this. I got to get out of here. And so they were really cool about moving the show. That's really great. Which is huge.

To 30 Rock. Yeah. That's right. That's insane. Do you look at gift horse in the mouth? Do you know what it comes from? That's what it is. Do you know what it comes from?

I do. Do you? Yeah, if somebody, yeah, it goes back to somebody, you give somebody a horse and you look in the teeth and if the teeth are bad, then you say no, thank you. You can see how old the horse is and the overall health of a horse. And so if somebody gives you one and you go,

yeah, I'll take the gift, but hang on, let me look inside and then you're gonna get this point. Yeah, yes, you're looking at the, it's rude. So yeah, so yeah. Look at that, the more you know, look at that. I don't know that Jason would know that, I love you, Jason. I'm sneaky smart. I know you are sneaky smart.

You're not sneaky smart, you're plain smart. Hey, so you, Kelly, you now at 30 Rock, which is must feel like, I mean, has it set it? Well, you know what's so funny is I've been going there so much for over 20 years that like, like for promotion stuff and just in and out of the building that I, it oddly felt very normal right off the bat. Like, yeah, I mean, you walk around like,

for some reason, my key like never works. They just don't want to let me in the building. And I always have to go to this one area and get another one. And when you go there, there's all these images that kind of change of all the things that have happened historically in that building. And it's so cool.

Like, I mean, I get the gift of it and I'm very, you know, grateful for it. But it feels really normal. Like, we've been there the whole time. What floor are you on? Are you on six? I'm right across from, yeah, right across from Jimmy. You are? Okay.

Jimmy Fallon. Yeah. From Jimmy, oh sorry. Go ahead and run. For Tracy, Jimmy Fallon. Jimmy Fallon. I'm so jealous. It's such a dream of mine to live in New York, work at 30 Rock on something that is every day.

Like I swear to God, I've been, I've wanted that since I was, you know, a young kid, like going to New York for work and going to 30 Rock, I just think that building is incredible. The whole area around it, the even like the ice, all the closed off streets, there's something about it. The basement level of all the things happening

that I never knew the city underneath. I was like, what? Jason, are you crying right now? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm going to help you out. Sorry, go ahead, Kelly.

I was going to say. I was going to say, I will say, it's how you're describing it. It is movie-like. Like, I walk home every day from work. And it's the coolest thing ever. You put your headphones in. I'm usually learning that, listening to what I'm supposed to be seeing the next day. But you walk home, you go out of the building.

This historical cool building, the city, everybody's got their own vibe going on, everybody's got their own lives, everybody's doing their own thing. You put different industries, not just the one in LA. Yeah. You put your headphones in, you walk home, and it's like a 35-minute walk home, and it's like a 35 minute walk home.

And so it's nice, it's lovely, and you're walking through a park, and you're, it's really, it's like, I don't know the older we get, I sound like an old person, but the older you get, those moments really matter. Like those moments. Of course, it's experiential.

Jay, we were talking on the phone this morning about it. So like how do you want your experience to be? Like you can have X, Y, and Z, but you have to go through the process of doing it and you have to do it on a day to day basis. So what do you want that to be? What do you want your life experience to be? And I know what you mean.

I mean, I lived in New York for over 20 years and I keep threatening that once my older kids graduate high school, I'm gonna move back. I think that's what I will do because of that very thing you talked about, whether it's walking to the park, walking to thing, whatever, I mean, that kind of stuff. It's very inspirational.

Yeah, it fills you up, right? Like it fills your soul, if you will. And it sounds like cheesy, but like, or very celebrity, but like I, at the risk of this I I have to be I think because I'm from the countryside. I have to be like like that park Saves me right there. Yeah, it saves me every day Like I I don't think I could live in the concrete jungle without that park Like I literally read a whole book on Frederick Law instead who created it.

I'm very into like landscaping and very into like just making sure we have, we don't forget like what that feels like to go outside and see trees and flowers and. I did when I was doing the play last summer, I would walk sometimes I'd walk from your front door to the escalate. Yeah. You have exhausted.

I was exhausted. I was exhausted. Jason, can we just, can we make an announcement right now, Jake, can we, this is the NBC. Will and I are pregnant. Will and I are pregnant. Oh, wow. Congratulations.

Thanks, guys. The NBC, Jason Bateman is open to your offer of working for you at 30 Rock on a daily basis. You need like an epic man. So come to him. Sort of a... Call Alina Kishishina. Would y'all ever, would you, this is a real question. Uh-oh.

Would you, because I'm not bullshitting you, I really do listen. I was, even with my sister and I, we were listening to like two in the morning last night, I think the Kevin Hart one and, and the Stone one, we were listening to a bunch of them. Anyway, and would you ever, because I noticed with the Kevin Hart one,

you're in front of an audience and then y'all toured it as well. So would you ever do because I noticed with the Kevin Hart when you're in front of an audience, and then y'all toured it as well. So would you ever do it as like a, like a TV show? Like a TV talk show? Like a TV show? I've thought about it, but I think it would be more full time than I think the three of us would like.

Are willing to. Yeah, like right now it's just, you know, it's an hour a week, and it's, we can, we're flexible with it, we're mobile with it. But yeah, if it was a structured studio and stuff, it would mean stopping some of the other things we're enjoying doing in addition to this right now. But perfectly so.

And anybody who would wanna have us on their platform to do that would have to make an offer to Aline Kishin. Will has a number. And let's hear what it is, but sure. But I do think that you can make that whatever you want because I didn't know what a talk show was. Like I didn't really know, like, I didn't know this world. I'm an artist, I'm never even awake for daytime television.

Like I'm like, so like I'm, this is not really generally my world. So, you know, I think you've had so much success with it and obviously just in your careers separately. But I think that's the cool thing about it is that you wouldn't have to commit to more than what you wanted to commit to your that level to where maybe you do it in a different way. Like, you know, I don't know. I just think I think what you're doing, this is incredible. I just, it's just, I also understand like that is pretty cool to because because you do give up, something has to give.

Like even with my music career, I'm not able to do everything because I'm doing the talk show. But there's also a plus in that, for me, that's why it's so tempting. Like I love routine. I would love to have that stage across from Jimmy's and you have the pattern that you walk home every day

from through the park, like I love. I love a routine, I flourish in a routine. But also having that, as you know, because of what we do, sometimes you have like a million things happening at once. And again, not a complaint, like you know, you have the privilege of having a million things. But when you get to work on one thing all the time

and you can't, you're like, sorry, I can't, I'm just doing this thing, and there's something really satisfying about that. Having those moments, Sean, you did it for years on Will and Grace. Yeah, it was nice. You know, where you're like, I'm just doing this right now, and I don't have the time to be spread thin. For sure, right.

Because I'm just doing this. I know that you've answered this question probably a billion times. I've never heard the answer. That's why I'm gonna be the tool. I am a tourist as well. But no, why? Cause you all have such amazing careers

separate from one another, such different careers as well. Obviously actors, but just different. And what made you all three do this? Like, whose idea was this? Will's originally, and then Sean and I kind of snored in on it and changed what Will's concept and premise was gonna be. And then it just became, well, let's just kind of hang out and chit chat during COVID because we can't see each other. We had no idea.

I didn't know the answer to that. Sorry, you've probably answered it a billion times. No, it's not that. It's not particularly interesting. We literally were like, oh, let's just do it. And then we, and then the week, the world shut down on the Friday of March 13th of 2020. And we had a meeting on the Tuesday before like four days before. Yeah, yeah, Sean's Sean's real smart dude, Michael Grand Terry puts, puts some put some form to it and presented to us. Well, guys, just you know, this is what it could be and this is what it's not, you know?

Like, so don't think it's gonna be a big huge time suck and there's some work here, but he just basically put it in adult terms for us. And we paid for it, like we put it up on its feet on our own, I mean, it wasn't a lot, but we did that and that's how it's going to go. I think that that's why though, because it was so organic. I think, it wasn't a lot, but we did that. And that's how it's going to go. I think that that's why though, because it was so organic. I think, you know, a lot of horrible things happened

because of COVID, but a lot of really incredible things happened out of COVID. And it was just an excuse to see each other, you know? Yeah. Well, it became like this really great, you know, we, a lot of feedback we got, especially at that time from people was like, hey, it was great to be able to listen during COVID.

And truthfully, it was selfishly, it was it was great to be able to listen during COVID. And truthfully, it was selfishly, it was great for us to be able to do it directly. Oh, it was selfishly, it was good for me to work through that as well. I worked my whole TV show the whole time. Right, and being able to like- In the mountains and like snow. And being able to call people in

that you're really interested to talk to kind of unapologetically, you're not like tapping them in the shoulder like, excuse me, Mrs. Such and Such, I'd love to ask you a question. Well, no, we have a format for that with this, and it's such a luxury to be able to talk to these heroes that we have. I'm sure you feel the same way on your show.

Yeah, I do. You just say to your gang, your producers, hey, would you reach out to Such and Such, see if they'd be interested in coming on the show? She's in a gang? Yeah. No, that just happened to me with Cher. I was like, and Alanis was on this season,

like a lot of people that I adore, they're always gonna be more, the musical ones that come on just cause I, and have a little bit more depth with them as far as their career and catalog and stuff. But yeah, I feel the same way. It's the coolest thing to like be able to just sit and chat like with your people that you look up to.

Well, you're killing it. You really are. You've killed it. And everything you've done, you're such a sort of real. Say lovely. Say lovely. Lovely person. I could hear you talk all day long.

I could hear you sing all day long. I agree. I love it. You're nice. I don't leave voicemails because of my talking voice. I just want to belt out all your songs to you because I just love, I love belting out your songs the way it's just so good. We have taken up way too much of your time. God, you're busy.

Get back to your incredibly successful talk show. We wish you nothing but the best. Thank you for being here and blessing us with you. And thank you for your talent and everything you've done and just continued success. And all your lovely, yeah. Yeah, you're awesome. No, thank you guys for having me.

I know I've listened to the show. So I like to be in the same category as a lot of the people that you interview is very cool. So thank you very much for having me. Oh, yeah. And you make, like honestly, just like cutting through the bullshit and just being yourself, it's so refreshing to listen to and it's fun and it's I don't you know how y'all were saying people look at me I I look at y'all the same way, so I think it's very refreshing for people

Thanks for people to see this version of Shawn for sure Yeah, Kelly, thank you so much success. Congratulations and wish you nothing but the best. Yes. Now y'all have a good 2024, y'all. You too. You too, see you later. Bye, Kelly.

What a terrible guest, Will. You know, somebody that just doesn't know how to, you know, be friendly or respond to questions. I know, she's so, I love this. Sean, you started in the right way, which is you put it in such a great way, which is like, yeah, she feels very much like. Like hours.

Like hours. Yeah. And she is the American Idol. Yeah, she's American. She represents all sides of America. I think. I honestly felt like I could fire up a friendship with her tomorrow that would last 40 years.

Well, when you're doing your talk show across the hall from her, Jason. Yeah, do that. Or maybe combined with her. What? Kelly and Jason. From Jason DeKelley. From Jason DeKelley. That was the name of the movie.

That's right, from Justin DeKelley. Justin DeKelley, that was the name of the movie. Yeah, that's not a people comedy, Justin, all the time. From Jason Dekelly But isn't amazing we know all of her songs like it's so rare like everybody knows all her I know what's that song that goes? Bye bye black sheep black sheep, black bird? Yeah. Yeah. Fuck, man. Jason, why'd you go out of here?

That was so fucking sweaty. I was like, what? Fucking lather up. No, you're thinking about that in sync song. Yeah, how's it go? Bye, bye, bye. Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye. Smart.

Last. Smart. Last. Smart. Last. SmartList is 100% organic and artisanly handcrafted by Rob Armjurf, Bennett Barbicot, and Michael Grant Terry. SmartLess If you like SmartLess, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus

in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. Today, hip-hop dominates pop culture. But it wasn't always like that. And to tell the story of how that changed, I want to take you back to a very special year in rap. 88, it was too much good music. The world was on fire. Yeah. I'm Will Smith. This is Class of 88, my new podcast about the moments, albums and artists that inspired

a sonic revolution and secured 1988 as one of hip hop's most important years. We'll talk to the people who were there. And most of all, we'll bring you some amazing stories. You know what my biggest memory from that tour is? It was your birthday. Yes, and you brought me to Shoday. Life-sized artwork cut out. This is Class of 88, the story of a year that changed hip hop.

Follow Class of 88 on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts.