SmartLess - "Lionel Richie"

Episode Date: September 22, 2025

If you can believe drummers and motorcycles: it’s Lionel Richie. 12 notes, sleep outs, God’s words, and winning Wimbledon. Fungus is among us… on an all-new SmartLess. Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of SmartLess ad-free and a whole week early. Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

So this is me, flying solo on a cold open. I don't know if I've done this before. I think maybe I've done this before. It's not great. What you're going to find in the next few seconds is why this show works with three and not with one. It might work with just Will or just Sean, but not just me. It's just not enough. It's like one hand trying to clap.

It's just, it's not possible. It sounds like this. You want to know what it sounds like? One hand clapping? It's terrible, right? It's not entertaining at all. So let me bring in the other two hands and let's light this candle. Here we come.

Smart. Wait, how's everybody doing today? It's morning where you are, Jay. It's so good. JJ. It is. It's morning and I'm still a little foggy from last night. I had a little too much sugar last night.

Oh, no. I have a sensitive system. Did you go to Sunday, Funday? Yeah, we had a little peach cobbler for dessert. And it was great. It was really, I was saying as I was driving home with Amanda, saying, you know, love, love the groups there. but you just can't replace Sean or Will

in a party dynamic, you know? You can try. You can try. We've got your head shots there on a couple of C-Stans, but it just doesn't work. On C-stance. Still, by the way, still, by the way, you could put cake on the picture and the headshot

and I'd still probably enjoy it. Somehow your picture would come to life and eat it up. It's like voodoo. Sean, all of a sudden you'd like feel a warmth in your stomach. Speaking of voodoo, I watched weapons for the third time last night. I can't wait to see it.

Man, big fan of that movie. That's Zach McGregor. You keep saying how good it is. And you watch with Franny? Franny, soaked it up, loved it. It's a real director's accomplishment. Well, Franny's going away to start. She's going away to college.

She's going away to college. I know. The next couple days. Tomorrow. No way. Yes. She's going locally here to university here in Los Angeles. and so so there might not be tears i think if i think if i was to fly her somewhere and then fly

away it would be really yeah but it's nice you don't think that you're going to have tears i don't think i'm going to have tears no because look you know as any parents out at an early range yeah but you know 17 year olds 18 year olds they they end up doing a lot of sleepouts anyway so you know she's sort of like living here three days a week anyway okay sleep outs sleep outs sleep outs sleep outs what's the hell's a sleep out sleepover over over's yeah sleep out hey can you come over for a sleepout what are you going to sleep around a lawn Sean were you was it teary when you left did your mom shed tears out of her one eye when you left for college I think the other one still cried it just didn't see in the box it was in the box I opened the box later it was so

pooling it was pooling in the box no I remember move I remember my moving day for college though it was like it was like a hundred degrees out it was everybody just couldn't wait to be done with everybody it was just like get out it's gonna be a hundred tomorrow we're shipping furniture up two flights of stairs is that what it was with you just like carrying crap uh who'd you pay to do it yeah exactly no it's uh it's gonna be me and amanda and maple is it really yeah three cars worth of stuff can i just say that were i there and it there's not a hollow offer because i'm not i would help i would tell by the way i would very safe offer that i know it is but it's true but it's true i love the thousands of miles away i know but it is true it was college was the best time

in life i loved it you know i remember um before you peaked in college i did i i remember my brother mike was so impatient that before you could before computers and everything and you had a you had a sign up for classes he drove the car there was a line from the building whatever it is the administrative building where you sign up for glasses all the way down the entire street it was like a thousand people waiting in line to sign it for class he drove the car right up on the lawn got me out walked right up to the front and said hey i need to sign my brother up for classes and like well there's a line she's like yeah i know but we were registered to come in we had an appointment and she just lied his way and she just bullshit it right away that sounds like me trying to get an

iPhone no what do you mean jason don't bring it up don't let people google jason baitman's jumping line for iPhone in 2007 wait what happened wait well was it really really 2007 you're amazing yeah so wait what month was it uh that's a good question i that i don't know i'm gonna say the fall but you can give a good yeah because they usually release in the fall yeah a good guess but jb you know you got the year down is that right yeah well that's a year after they came out right yeah that's the year they came out uh shawney so you know the story is jb and i you know the people the the nice people at apple had sort of said hey we'll set you up with the phone and jason said you know what? I'm going to go to the grove

and I'm going to be a regular guy and I'm going to wait in line and get my... I'm so excited. Romanticizing the whole queuing up, you know, like Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back, you know, and everyone's like line up. So I was like, okay, and I was like, I'm going to get mine delivered to my house a week early. Anyways, which I did.

J.V. goes down, God bless him. God bless this little boy. He goes down to the Grove and he's waiting in line, all excited and diligently, right? And he's there. And the employees at the Apple store there go, hey look that's jason baitman line so they go out to him and they go hey man don't wait here come come with us so he kind of like obliges out of being polite and he goes with them they bring him into the store and he gets a phone early well wouldn't you know the daily and daily mail or whoever paparice are taking photos of people lining up and the story comes out jason baitman skips line jumped the line i love that the story the story's out before i get back to the office right willie i got to the office and it was already online and you say hey man I was, I was giddy jumping out of...

But wait a minute, here's the best part of the story that you didn't want the free phone sent to your house because you wanted to be a real person, then you went in the line and you got out of the line anyway. Well, these nice people were like, hey, and there was a photographer in the bushes that was taking pictures of me anyway, like in line. And so I probably should have put two and two together.

God, it was one of the best, honestly, it felt like such a victory to me. And then the next year that they issued a phone, our nice person, at Apple called us and said, hey, so we want to send you a new phone. And we had a staff meeting with, I think it was Tim Cook at the time.

And he said, hey, everybody, let's not pull another Bateman. Let's make sure we get the VIP phones out. No way. I became a verb at the fucking... I love that PR fuck episode, Apple are now called Bateman. No, but they did everything right.

It was me that said, no, thanks again. Oh, gosh. And now on our... Now we have the best cell phones we can listen to our podcast on our cell phone and use smartless mobile. You can use smartless mobile. Why wouldn't you? Because you're going to get less than half.

Wait, what's smartless mobile? What do you mean? I don't understand. Well, it's a cell phone service. You have a provider. Let's say you have a provider. You have whoever is. One of these big, I guess, if you had to.

T-Mobile? Yeah, but why not save money? But why not save money? Cheaper? It's less than half. What if I want to keep my number? No problem. Why are you so tired and beleaguered?

I just feel like, on the outside chance, people haven't heard our pitch, I guess. I'm trying to not be annoying. You keep our number. You can keep your number. It's not as mobile. You can cut your cell phone bill in half, more than half sometimes. A quick sign up? Is that what it is?

It's easy, less than five minutes. Get the app. Jason, do you like apps? I love it. We have a smartest mobile. The best. Go sign up everybody. Okay, let's get to our guest.

Okay. Our guest, by the way, speaking of the best, we i have brought today an absolute heavy weight i'm so excited about this this guy is a just bona fida decades long international superstar okay he is unbelievable he is won an academy award a golden globe multiple grammies academy american music award things he's written so many hit songs he was in a band Then he had an incredible solo career Everyone and then he wrote songs for all the biggest stars And he wrote songs for himself

And he had the hugest He's one of the biggest record selling artists of all time And I'm going to start to list some of his Starting with his old band all the way through his other Sean, you better guess this He wrote easy, Ceylon's a lady still He wrote Lady for Kenny Richie You are, yes

And I love all my longest Lionel Richie Oh my God Good morning, sir No way Oh good morning, guys That was The hamming up of the opening was just amazing

Jason the story about the cell phone is so embarrassed I know listen Lennel we'd love to welcome to the show but more importantly we'd love to get you sign up with smartless mobile That's true What do you pay a money? Look at this beautiful studio you've got

there is that the recording studio? It's the recording studio Yeah This is the hideout down here when I want to Get totally away from everybody The doors closed and don't come in You are the man you've been the man for so cool It is such an honor to have you, Mr. Lytle Ritchie here in the show with us.

Let me just say, Jason, Sean, and Will, you know, having the three of you in front of me right now is, and listening is just probably the trip of my life because, you know, I really admire the fact that your talent and the, and you can kind of improv so seamlessly. Well, but it's just dribble, you know, it's just talking, you know. You're about to get 50 minutes of it, tuck in. Well, it's such an honor to have you, such a pleasure to have you. So cool. You're here in Los Angeles, yes? I'm in Los Angeles, yes. And you've lived here how long?

I feel like I know where your house is, too. I know exactly where your house. I know, too. I've been here since 1981. In the same house? Not in the same house. No, no, no, no, no. I'm doing the, I did the start off in the guest house, then you go from there to the main house,

and then from there, okay, I'm out of here. So, you know, a couple of rentals here and there, and then finally ended up here, beautiful. Where did you start? Where were you born? Where'd you get raised? Tuskegee, Alabama, right on the campus. Really?

Yeah, so that's right. So you grew up on the campus in Tuskegee. Right on the campus. It was, well, I shouldn't say right on. It was across the street from the gates of the campus. And since then, the campus has surrounded my place, my house. And why is that? There's not, you, your parents, are they still around?

Are they still with us? No, no, I'm not, mom, dad, and grandma, but the memories are right there still in the house. I still on the house. Do you really? The house is still on the campus, and people pass by and go, there's Lionel Richie's house. Have they offered to buy the house? Do they want to absorb it and, like, build a new building right there for the school? You know, exactly why I want to hang on to it, because, you know, every time they say, Lionel, that's a wonderful spot.

And I go, mm-hmm, tear the house down and put another building up. Uh-huh. We're not going to do that. But actually, I grew up right across the street from the preempt. president of university's house. Oh, my God. And then as time went on, they moved to the big mansion at the other end of the campus. But, I mean, for the longest time, I was there with the...

What campus? I don't... The University of Alabama? No, no, no, Tuskegee University. Tuskegee University. And what was your connection? Did you have a connection to Tuskegee University? Did I have a connection?

Oh, my God, guys. It was Tuskegee Airmen. My... This is my... The moms and dads of my whole little group. Number two, believe it or not, on the deed of the house, you've got the Washington family who had the house before my grandmother had it. And so, and grandfather.

So it was one of those things where it kind of started right there on the campus with everything else. And of course, in 1923 is when they received the house. And I didn't show up at that time, I must assure you that I keep telling my kids, I don't know Abraham Lincoln, but. it was pretty late after that that I showed up but it was wonderful man just to have that history in the house and you went you went to college there right you went to Tuskee oh yeah oh yeah

and that's where you kind of got your that's where you got your start I remember reading this thing you were saying I want to mention that your book is coming out I want to say September 30th your book truly you named it yeah oh that and and is this your first book my first book listen I'm telling you if it takes me the rest of my life, have you ever done a book before?

No. No, he's never read a book. It's left to right, top to bottom, right? I'm going to read them a book later on tonight. It's going to be awesome. So let me just tell you that it is painful because they keep asking you, and then what happened? And then you want to kind of go,

okay, I don't want to talk about that anymore. How is your recall? Because I figure my recall is going to be so bad. I'm going to have to be in some sort of hypnosis to pull it all out. You know, it all kind of worked out where, you know, the stories kind of fell into place, you know. Once you, between the band, between growing up in Tuskegee, between various episodes of that, and then, of course, meeting and greeting around the world, it kind of fell into place, man.

You start calling off names and then the next name shows up. And it takes a minute. Every once in a while you have to make a phone call and go, hey, who was that guy? What was like that lady's name? You have to call somebody that remembers. Who is the most helpful? Jason does that home when his kids walk by. He says to his wife.

Who's that? Yeah, which was that? Was there one person that was the most helpful for you in recalling some of these things? Yeah, I have a couple of homeboys still in Tuskegee. It calls off the names of everybody in life. Milton Carver Davis was one of them, and Harold Boone is another one. And they just kind of said, oh, no, that's the guy's name. And then, believe it or not, Ronald Lepred from the Commodore has helped me out tremendously

because he kept saying, no, that's not what happened. And then he starts calling it. Because, you know, as time goes on, it becomes, yeah, and I did this. And remember, we did that, and I go, Rich, Rich, you weren't there. Right, right, right. You're making up memories. You're like creating memories. You know, I'm creating my, and remember I came on the stage and I told the crowd, Rich, you weren't there.

Is that your nickname? Yeah, is that what people closest to you call you, Rich? No, they call me actually Skeet is my nickname. Really? Where did that come from? Believe it or not, okay, this is part of that painful book. Okay, so what happens is that, you know, your father walks in the room, looks at the baby, and it goes... Go on.

Sorry, hang on one second. Sean, father is a guy... Sorry. Yeah, so he walks in, there's the baby. You know, and most guys would say, okay, yo, kill a or... Bruce or, you know, come here, give me a rough name. My dad goes, my Ski-Boo. My-Ske-Boo.

And I said, you know, I even questioned him, I said, dude, of all the names, why Ski-Boo? He said, he just came out that way. Well, anyway, I am now in high school. I carry Ski-Boo all the way through elementary school, which is painful. Painful, I tell you. And then I get to high school, and the guy said, you're going to get killed in high school with Ski-Boo. Yeah. So we're going to change your name to Ski-T, and that was it.

And then it was Skeet, it was never Lionel or... No, no, yeah. I like Skeet. That's kind of cool. Let me give you the other name, so you'll know. Anytime you have a guy named Fungus, another guy named Cookie Man, you follow me, so Skeet, I got away cleaning with Skeet, okay. Those are your two other best friends? Oh, no, we had P-Head, we got some days, P-Head, and Sonny Boy, we got some names.

What a crew! But believe it or not, can I tell you? Can I tell you, these guys went on to become great lawyers. One guy is a biomedical nuclear engineer for NASA. I mean, come on, you know. Fungus, obviously. So he was the smartest guy in the stupid group. Wow.

The rest of the guys. Wait, so getting back to recall, how good were you at keeping all your memorabilia, news clippings and pictures and things like that? Good? Got them all. You do? Really? You do.

Yeah. How did you know to do that? Was that a mom or a dad thing? that it was like, son, keep your stuff. It was mom, dad, grandma, cousins, aunts, uncles. They kept every clipping. And as they kind of said, I'm wrapping up the house here. So scrapbook after scrapbook after scrap,

but we've got volumes of the first time I did American Bandstand, the first time of this and the first time I played it. They got it all. And you got it in the book there too? You got pictures of all that stuff? You know what? That's in the, believe it or not, that's the second book coming. That's coming.

Wow. Smart. Wow. Let me ask Will and Jay, do you guys do you guys do it or do you have family members that archive your stuff? No. My mom was pretty good about it, and I think I know where some of that stuff is.

I've got some of it. Do you, Sean? I've kind of... Scotty does every single thing I do. Oh, that's cool. That's cool. Believe it or not, you want to lose some of it. It's like living with single white male.

Yeah. Do you have candles under it? I sleep with one eye open. Wait, wait, Lina, I want to get into Skeet, if I may. No, I'm kidding. I want to get into, so you start, I love this. Okay, keep going on. Yeah, I'm sure.

I love that you started, so I read some excerpts from your book, and you were talking about you were, you owned a saxophone, and you don't, and you didn't describe yourself as a player, you described yourself as a blower, and these guys were like, hey, man, we might. No, no, I hope I didn't write blower in the book. No, no, I'm, I'm, that's a title of the book, am I right? No, I said, it's saxophone, holder. Holder.

Holder, okay. It's a big difference. It weighs a big difference. Minds ball. It's still a tricky title. Holder blower. But you just kind of had it. You didn't really know how to play.

You kind of were able to, you had a musical sensibility to you, and you were able to mimic from stuff that you heard. Is that true? By ear. And not only saxophone, but by piano as well. I cannot read or write music to that point. Wow. Amazing to me.

So what makes it all kind of weird is that when you can pick up a horn and once you figure out, you can now play along with Sunny Stitt or you play along with Cold Train or you play along with you go, okay. And then when you sit down to the piano, you know, it's, you know, once you find out that some of the greatest artists in the world

cannot read or write music. You know, there's Smokey, there's Paul McCartney. Once you start going down that list of folks, you know, it's a pretty rare fraternity sorority, you know. Now, so did you ever learn or want to learn the names, of course, like the 575 or the 164 or the sharp seventh or whatever that. I can say it. I can talk about it.

But the point is my problem was ADD or ADHD, which we didn't know back then. Right. So, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Okay, that's great. Now, try to read that on a page with dots. So tracking was the worst thing in the world for me. It wasn't that I couldn't read it. It's just I couldn't read it fast enough to play it.

Right. Interesting. So when you get in a room, I just forgot all that. And you read a chord chart? Yeah, forget about it. Forget it. You can't read a chord chart, which just says this chord than this chord. I can get it done faster by standing in a room with a group of musicians, hum it to them.

Wow. That's amazing. And they are so gifted that what you do is by the time I finish the hum, they've already played it six times over. Well, that's what I'm blown away, all of the hit songs. that we all know through all of these years that came out of your head. Like, it's just fascinating to think about how did those melodies and those things come to into your head?

It's just amazing. That's the weirdness of the God gift. You know what I'm saying? I look at actors. I look at comedians. I look at, and I go, you know, how did you put that together in your head? And sometimes they say that was improv, you know, half of that was this.

But how do you explain it, though? Do you just hum whatever you're feeling? For me, for me, if I told you there's a radio station playing right now, and all I have to do is tap over into it. Now, it's only 12 notes. Here's the magic of this. It's not like I can go cheat on a lot of words and stuff. There's only 12 notes here, guys.

And so what happens is you have to know, all you need is four chords. and that's a whole album, you know, believe it or not. So what happens is just knowing what notes to put together, and believe it or not, I can hear that. Right, that's amazing. You know what I'm saying? And we will be right back. And now back to the show.

Have you enjoyed how it's changed over the years in your own head? because any natural gift does morph sometimes to the better, sometimes to the worse, as your taste evolves and as you allow yourself to be influenced by things that you like and as we get older and tempo and all that stuff, have you enjoyed that process, how your music has changed a bit? In love with it. You know, what happens is, you know, remember, it's all texture.

It's all, you know, sounds. It's, you know, it's all about sonics. So when you can, I started off probably about the first five years, six years, on a grand piano. Yeah. Got it? And then after probably Penny Lover, probably after that, never played that again, grand piano because technology came in and you can get sounds on the keyboard. Yeah. So from that point on, I never played the same keyboard twice.

do you remember moments like Sean was saying where the songs come from is of do you have you must have memories of like when you first started to write or hum or come up with you know endless love let's say

or all night long do you remember like were you standing in the kitchen and you were like getting a glass of milk or you know what I mean? Yeah no it's so many stories about I'll use I'll use probably all night long

I'll use hello as the perfect example. Yeah, great song. I wrote, again, my co-producer James Carmichael was late for the little writing session we were having, and he walks in the door, and I'm just playing on the piano, and I said, hello, isn't me you're looking for, and I played the chords. No way.

I was waiting for him to say, yeah, I'm here. Okay, let's get started. He said, finish that song. Wow. So you already had the melody, and the lyrics just came as kind of a joke to... All I had was, hello, is it me you're looking for? Which is the corniest thing I could ever think about in life.

Oh, my God, it's so great, though. So if you really want to know the backstory of this, which I will tell you, the backstory to this is I didn't like it. I hated it. And he kept saying, finish it, finish it. I said, James, this is... I'll be the laughing stock of the business. Who's going to write a song called Hello, is it me you're looking for?

And so enough, I finished the song And then I fell in love with it And he hated it Because he was going, okay Because he put the strings on it It was very heavy, heavy, heavy So are you ready for this? We threw it off the album

And I wrote a song called Truly To replace it Of course, yeah, no way And then of course the next album We said, well, let's go back and put that hello thing on and that became the national anthem of as I walk around the world hello Lionel

yeah it's amazing of course although truly truly was the number one single too so truly was the first believe it or not Grammy wow oh wow after all these songs everyone said well you won the Grammy no no no no you go to the Grammys

and you just kind of sign up for your seat but they don't give me anything for the first 10 years of your life and then finally you walk up one day and they call off truly and I said well that's pretty cool and that was the beginning of the ride. Is that often the way that it has worked for you

where you come up with, you write a bunch of melodies and then you write a bunch of lyrics and you sort of find what lyrics go with what melodies? Are they that separate? My mother was an English teacher. So I caught hell just trying to go to school every day and using the proper English.

So mom, can I go somewhere? I don't know. Can you? That kind of situation. So, you know, my problem with trying to write lyrics, was, or should I say write a song, is, what's the subject? So whatever the subject is, that's the most important thing. It's called the hook. So if you write all night long, right, or you write hello,

or whatever the case may be, then if you have the hook, you'll write now the verses. It's only four lines perverse, but you have to go back and put that together. My problem was I would never write the verses until the Commodore said, we like it because there's nothing worse than finishing a song and you get halfway through

now you spent your whole life on this thing and all of a sudden they say we hate it next yeah right right so I would just go here's the hook I'm not gonna put any more work in I'm not putting any more work but then the actual music

for said lyrics just comes much later you just figure out what melody might match this story it's da-a's it's all da-a's and occasionally you go perfect example is a lady you know I'm your night in shining armor and I love you

da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da that's that uh-huh you just don't know the word you follow me you know penny lover it's almost like I call an answer yeah you just kind of throw it out that now there's some what we call God's words which is why you're writing the song some mumbles comes out in real words

yeah well you want to hold those as much as possible because that's the true essence of where the other side was trying to direct you really but what about the great luck that your ear has such incredible taste in what a melody sounds like and you also have a voice that is incredible as well like you've got both of these enormous talents it's just it's a perfect storm there are a few others but not many my god you you have just um um um done my gratitude mantra, first thing I get up in the morning,

the last thing I say at night. You know, how did it ever happen to me? Holy crap. I mean, you know, I mean, you think about very serious things in life, and you don't really think about it. It was someone said years ago, when you're 19, 20, 25, and you win Wimbledon, and you go, wow, you know, where are we going to eat tonight?

Yeah. And then you turn 50, and you go, I want Wimbledon? you know what it's only looking back that you realize holy crap what that's right what was that all about i'm i'm so glad that you know we ask people that sometimes on the show you know do you allow yourself to to pat yourself on the back and and appreciate where you are where you've been where you're going all that stuff it sounds like you've got such a healthy relationship with uh and perspective on your on your life and your gifts and and i was going to that was going to be my next question is you know you just you see

like such a lovely man how would you tell that to my kids please i would suspect jb if i can if i could jump onto your question before you finish it and just say what i notice is you you mentioned early on that you got all your old buddies back and where you grew up and that you're really still in touch with um i forget it was fungus fungus fungus no no oh yeah fungus fungus fungus and all these and all these guys and the and i think the idea that you stay so in tune in touch with them probably has a lot to do with getting their perspective

that you have. Yeah, the beautiful part about this now, when I tell you how long we've known each other, then you're really going to know how strange it is and wonderful at the same time. I've known these guys since preschool, elementary school, high school, college. Wow, wow.

That's really cool. I mean, honestly, and by the way, every month, we have a Zoom call. Oh, that's great. Really? And we talk about, just like you're sitting here talking now, We've got Zoom calls and we're sitting there talking about

what you're doing and what's happening and who's doing what and what hurt you. Sorry, Shania, my question was going to be really more about like the how many times did you was it ever tempting because we live in such a permissive

culture and business you know, like you're allowed to be your worst part often. Right. And was it, were you conscious of making the choice to stay as, sorry to use the word again, lovely as you are, you know, like it could be because it's easier. It's to be lazy and to be nasty and to allow people to sort of, you know, clean up after you and care for, like, do you know what I mean?

Like, you're, there's just, it's a choice to stay kind. And I wonder if that would, would they're strong? with that. Well, I'll be honest with you. I kind of grew up in a magical family a little bit here. I used to go back and ask my grandmother every day. I said, Grandma, how do you have so much wisdom? You know so much about life, but you've not been around the world. I've been around the world. How are you able to hold on to your core? And she said, if you learn how to treat people right at home, the rest of the world is easy. An asshole is an asshole. you know and period and so again we're in this business we're called it's called the entertainment

business we run across enough assholes every single day yeah so we kind of if you the motto that i have if you can spot one you make sure you don't act like him or her yeah we we came we we came across an asshole recently and uh let me tell you something we i'm not joking and we The three of us sort of appreciated getting that contrast of seeing that grade A-a-a-hole behavior in a way gave us the perspective. And it's funny, I was saying to one of my sons, my 15-year-old today, I was driving to work,

and I said, hey man, I said, we're just talking about moving through life, and I said, you know what, dude, if the only piece of advice I can give you is, no matter what, if you keep pushing out love, even in moments where you feel like you're not getting what you get, If you push it out, it creates a world where you get it back from the universe a million times.

So love on people, be kind to people when you run into them, talk to people, not just here at home, we have a loving environment, but also out in the world, and it will come back and you and your experience, and don't do it with the hope of getting a result. Just do it. That's right. I had the wonderful pleasure of watching my dad.

We have to go, sorry. That was the last thing. Kidding. No, go on, go on, go on. I had the pleasure of watching my dad. You know, he was one of those guys that, you know, I just couldn't figure him out at the beginning. He would walk up to people and, you know, you could tell that he was a lover of people. And so he would come home some days and bring a man home to the house.

And he would, Bert put on, that's my mother, Alberta. Bert put on another plate. This is Bill, Bill, Bert, Lionel, Deborah. And so he said, I'll be back. I'm going upstairs for a minute. And so here's the guy at the table, Bill, and so my mother starts asking questions. So did you, were you, do you work with Lionel? I'm a junior, so my dad's Lionel.

Okay. So have you worked with, are you working with Lionel? No, no, ma'am. Were you in the military with Lionel? No, ma'am. Are you all friends from where he grew up? No, ma'am. Well, where did you meet Lionel?

Why are you here? He said, well, I just met him at Kroger's. So now my mother leaves the table to go upstairs and ask my dad. Yeah, who the hell is this guy? Who's this guy, right? And of course, Debra and I, my sister, we go upstairs to hear this conversation because we want to know too. And so what the conversation was, he's going to do a job interview tomorrow. and he needs a suit.

And my dad is reaching in the closet to get a suit that fits him in a tie and stuff. That's amazing. And my mother would say this argument, well, Lionel, it's one of your favorite suits. He says, I can get another suit. The man needs a suit to look the part. Lionel, I love that so much.

So you had a great example your whole life. Mike, I was just telling somebody to this story reminds me so forgive me but but it's just i love that and and my grandfather my mom's dad who was really close i was just telling somebody the last couple days this story he was a great guy and i was really really close with him and he used to bring guys back he'd he'd bring he help out he wasn't an alcoholic he'd bring guys back from halfway house and make my grandmother bring him make him a meal and he'd let them work he'd pay them and then he'd talk to them he died at 97 wow everybody who were his friends his peers had died long years before

And I was just saying the remarkable thing was that church was packed. Yeah. Because he reached, he did stuff for people, young people all the time. I couldn't believe it. I was like, this guy's 97. This church is packed. Yeah, that's so cool. You know?

That's a testament to his whole life. Yeah. In college, I would bring guys home. No question. Sean, we're just going to, let's go to a break. Yeah. Sean. Wait

Yeah, it was a totally different story Please let me come back I want to come back to this far I want to come back please No suits I was giving no suits No you were taking off suits Hey listen Lionel Can you can you

Ripping him off Can we You started Your first band was the Commodore Your first big band was the Comed Can you talk a little bit about your experience How that happened And then how you gradually moved away

And went on a solo career Just walk us through that a little bit, if you don't mind. Well, yeah, I was going to say that's a whole session by itself. Well, okay, I'm back in school, and it's my freshman year, and of course, I run across this guy on campus, and he says, you know, do you play any instruments? And I said, well, yeah, I'm a fabulous horn holder, you know. I didn't tell him that I brought the horn to school to learn how to play it, but he didn't ask that, so I didn't tell him.

Hornholder, yeah. So, you know, he said, well, we're starting a band. There's going to be a freshman talent show. And basically what the freshman talent show was, is that all the seniors in upperclassmen would come in and laugh at the freshman. So, you know, we put this band together. And believe it or not, at the freshman talent show,

we killed it. Killed it by you just surprised everybody. Well, you guys just had chemistry? Like you just vibe. Yeah, that's wild. You know, and back then all you had to play was James Brown, and you got it, you know. So you guys covered a few songs?

We did nothing but covers, you know. And so the beautiful part about this was there was a guy in the audience who was in a band called the Jays which is the seniors the greatest band in the world on campus. And so this guy, these guys were graduating and it was two guys that were going to stay around

because they wanted to put a new band together, Michael Gilbert and Jimmy Johnson. And the next thing we got, a couple of guys, got phone calls. Hey, can you guys stop by? We want to talk to you about putting a band. together well to get a call from them was like it yeah and so we put the band together the next thing we know we have a band called the commodores that's just nuts that's just nuts we played

every sorority house every frat house every campus from here to there and then how did the song writing how did the songwriting start so you're starting you're doing covers and all this and you're like hey we should write our own tunes yeah well that's a whole story i mean it's good though because You know, we could cover everything. You want Slystone, we got Slystone. What do you want? Temptations, we're a temptation. You want three dog night, we got three dog night. Whatever you need, we can play it.

And then it got to the point where we're trying now to figure out, okay, I think it's time for us to put a record out, right? It's going to happen. And so we started doing auditions. Well, we went to one audition that changed the whole trajectory of what we're going to do. And that was Philly International, Gambling Huff. and we went in and we played every song we killed it

it's bam we nailed it and right after that something happened the guy came back and said guys you all killed it we said right we got a recording contract right he said no he said

what we were thinking the whole time you were playing was because by the way you sound just like Slystone you sound just like the temps you sound just like who do you guys what do you sound like wow and I said

ah he said i mean i mean we just waiting on what you guys sound like that was the mission of the only way we find out who we are is we got to start writing right and then did you guys sit down and say okay well who what what songs do we really like covering which are the ones we really explode with you know is it more of a sly sound is it more of it yeah that's when the individuality came in that's when the individuals started catching up some guys loved funk Some guys love, I'm a James Taylor nut. I was a Carol King thing, you know, I was a, you know, I could name it, you know, so I was over there. Then I realized, okay, I'm a Stevie person, I'm a Marvin person, you know, that was my wheelhouse.

And then as time went on, okay, now I'm an Elton person. Now I'm a, you know, I was in that piano man kind of thing. Sure. And so I would kind of bring in those kind of songs. Now, the joke with all of this was, if you want to get a record on the Commodore album, don't try to do anything up-tempo because everybody had 10 up-tempo songs.

So I figured my niche, okay, I'll bring the only slow song they have. Guaranteed I have a record on them. Because you got to come down a little bit to go back up again when you're putting together a whole album. You got to have that in the album. Gotcha. So the mid-tempo, I got the mid-tempo, I got the music. Mid-tempo killed it.

I got it, all right? And as time went on, Brickhouse, we wrote that together as a group. But mainly the mid-section of this whole thing was covered by, okay, I got you. So the only thing happening was when the slow song came out, that was the hit. Wow.

And then in that time when you were writing those songs, when did you, because you also wrote some songs, like you wrote for Kenny Rogers, you wrote famously, you wrote Lady. I mean. You did? Yeah. God bless. When did you start writing for other artists outside of your own, you know?

Well, Kenny was an interesting story because of the fact that it was not supposed to be for Kenny. It was supposed to be for the Commodores, yet another slow song for the Commodos. He's doing air quotes, by the way, just for the listener. Thank you. I forgot. Nobody can see this. And so what happens from here, the guys walk in and announce no more slow song. songs. Okay, so that eliminates the brother right here gone. And so now I decided I'm going to put out a religious song called Jesus' Love. So I went left of that and put out a church song. Meanwhile, I got a phone call from Kenny Rogers. Do you have one of those songs, man? I just need, right? And

I said, Kenny, I have it, but I don't have time. We're going to go on tour. And I don't really have time to do this, but I'll call you when I get back. Two weeks later, the drummer falls off of his motorcycle, if you can believe drummers and motorcycles. And I called Kenny back and said, I'm back from tour. I got it, right? I got it.

And so the song was called Baby. Instead of Lady? That's all I had. Baby, I'm your knight in shining armor, and I love you. That's it. And I walk into the studio with him, and I'm used to pitching for Commodore. So he said, so where's the song you got for me?

I said, baby. No way. No, no, no. Excuse me. He told me how much he loved his wife. And at that time, she said, he's a fool. She's a lady. I mean, a real lady.

Okay, now what's the name of your song? I said, lady. That's great. Come on, you got to break your work. I love that. You know, when I was 24 years old, I toured with Kenny Rogers. I was a Christmas elf in his Christmas tour. you played a little elf and you'd come out and you'd bring them up that's right the microphone

and a little gift box just give us a little taste john just give us a little taste shot well we'd open our the christmas section uh session with um we need little christmas right this very minute and then um i was always high i like every show i was high in my mind and um but kenny was really nice he was a really good guy yeah that's all i have many many stories but not from that time right now i know He's that guy. You could have stories forever. I could talk forever. Yeah.

Yeah, you guys were good friends for a long time, is that right? Forever. Oh, really? Oh, that's great. He's such a nice guy. He was probably not only my friend, but one of my biggest mentors, really. We'll be right back. And back to the show.

You wrote a lot of songs like all night long and dancing on the scene. A lot of sort of party. Were you part of a party vibe? I was the party animal. What are you talking about? Were you? Yeah, you know, what's so funny. I mean, everyone keeps thinking,

oh, you know, Lionel, it's really nice because you're such a street guy. Listen, man, I hung out with P-Funk, okay? It's Parliament Falkadelics. I mean, you know, when you're in Rick James, I mean, come on, guys, that's the class. I mean, yeah, for sure. Where were these years?

So you'd left Alabama. Are you we in Los Angeles now during a lot of this, the Commodore stuff? I would say from 70 to probably 75 was like everybody's going to die or everybody's going to live through it. You know what I'm saying? This was in L.A. or we in New York? It's across the country. L.A., New York, you know, we were all touring.

But the only guys that didn't make it till late was the Commodores. P. Funk was already in motion three years before we made it. Wow. And so, you know, Bootsie Collins. I mean, think about this. This is an era where, you know, to get the phone call and say, I'm sorry, this so-and-so died, that was everyday occurrence. Right.

You know, but at the same time, you know, you asked the question, how did I get through it? You know, it's just the fear of dying, you know, because that's what's at the other end of everything you want to try there. But it was such an amazing period because you got a chance to see either what you want to do or what you shouldn't do or you know because what's the end result you're going to die so not too much to think about i wanted to ask you um you know i'm a i watch a lot of documentaries and one of the best ones i've

ever seen my whole life was the making of we are the world and i know that people probably come up to you now because it just came out like a year ago or two years ago god time is flying yeah it was one year ago but i should Tracy should know that that that lano you wrote that with michael jackson jackson right right and and as i'm watching i'm sure i'm so sorry to like bug you about it but i just please bug me i'm sorry enough it's just incredible that you put you with quincy put that group of people together at a time when there were no cell phones no computers no it was literally just phone calls and i hope they call back and then i hope they show up i hope they show up and they did and it's one of the most famous songs in the history of the world you know

what was that like taking that on? I mean, it's a massive mountain to climb. There's such a wonderful feeling of naive. There's such a wonderful feeling of you don't know it's going to be a disaster. You know, because there's a certain time in your life when you go, this is going to be the greatest thing in the world. You know, and you just hang on to it. And by the way, when we finish this song, we're going to save the world.

We're going to wipe out hunger. I mean, think about this. We're all there to wipe out. hunger and this is going to happen um and then we start getting into the process of doing it after we finally get all these fabulous artists together i mean that one night was a mountain and a half to climb yeah one night and i don't get one night what time did you finish like five six seven in the morning it was seven o'clock eight o'clock in the morning from we didn't start until two because i was hosting the american music awards american music awards

So from 7 that morning, to go into rehearsal, the following morning, I had rehearsal all the way up until 5 o'clock for when we went on the air. We go on the air, I do the American Music Awards when it's over. Excuse me, by the way. In the middle of all this, one six of these crazy awards. And then at 1 o'clock in the morning, drive over to A&M Studios, and we've got show time. I mean, from that point on, I'm walking in the door

and are they there or not? And you have to explain the song probably cold to all of them, right? And this is going to be your part, and this is going to be your part. All they had was if they got a cassette, think about that. If you got the cassette, you're doing good.

Right. Most of them showed up just saying, okay, is Quincy, Michael, Lionel, okay, I'll be there. Yeah. Most of them didn't hear the song until they got there, right. So that just showed your blind faith.

And you just stayed up all night. This is the mid-80s. I wonder how you guys stayed up all night. It's crazy to think. And the great words, in the great words of my dear friend, okay, now, where are the drugs? We were talking about Roscoe's, chicken and waffles. He said, yes, that sounds good.

Where were the drugs? So then you were up for 24 hours, maybe 25, 26. Yeah, yeah. And that was called the break. But we didn't fall apart until about 10 or 11 o'clock the next day. Yeah. Because now it's over, it's out, the baby's born, you know, we have it. You know, now we, of course, we've got to put it together later.

But the fact is, the hardest part was getting it on tape. Yeah, that was the hardest part. And then how was the, it's reach and its effect, the desired effect was accomplished, yes? Oh, killed. The money that it earned and the hunger that it alleviated. Yeah, it still played. It was beyond beyond. I remember.

I remember calling Quincy on the phone and I said, okay, they were saying we raised 10 million, wow, okay, 10 million. We did 20 million, 20 million, wow, wow. We did 30 million, 30 million in 1980, wow, that's like forever, you know. So I remember calling Quincy after we got to a crazy number

and I said, Quincy did we say we're going to give half the money away or all the money. And Quincy said, don't try it, don't try it, don't try it, ski, don't try it. They'll run us out of town Sean out of curiosity these days What are you using to mop up hunger

Is it just a I just use my shirt or whatever I'm wearing it at the point Like a sloppy Joe or You know It's incredible It was an impossible time You have to understand

Everything was And I would say the next thing They made it work No one saw it coming Yeah Back then we didn't have cell phones We didn't have live streaming So no one saw this coming

So we can sneak up on the world And so they didn't I remember being a kid I remember watching those Watching you guys and watching Band-Aid And all that stuff and thinking like Seeing all these superstars together Because we didn't have social media

Because we didn't have any of it You're like oh my God There's Lina Richie and there's Bob Dylan And Bruce Springsteen and Cindy Lopper And you just go down all these people And they're all in the same room It was a mind blow Get that all in the same room

with no managers, no lawyers, no glam squad, no nothing. It was like, and I refer to it as your first day of elementary school. Right. And your mother dropped you off, you know, and you got to go in and kind of deal with the rest of the kids on your own. I mean, Dylan was about to have a heart attack. I mean, but Bob showed up. Let's make that very clear.

You know, Springsteen, we're all there, Stevie's, we're all that. Ray Charles, we're all there. And we had to kind of walk in and get you. to each other. Did you see a few of them at the AMAs earlier and say, hey, I'm expecting you in a few hours

and take it easy at the party? I saw a few. And the ones that were coming off tour made it difficult. In other words, Stevie, okay, I got it. Michael, okay.

But is Dylan going to show up? Yeah. I mean, he's not known for, like, is he might, he might not, you know. Springsteen is coming from his last concert in Madison.

square garden wow wow but what am i saying stevie was in philadelphia yeah there's a snowstorm in philadelphia he might not get out wow follow me yeah and by the way we have no cell phone to know exactly where he is right but you've got contingencies as far as like well then uh cindy lopper will sing this verse or yeah i mean it could have been the train wreck of life yeah yeah it was wild to see wailon jennings walk out is that by the way it wasn't wild at all whaling was true to his Whaling was, he was walking on ice just a little bit because he was there because of Willie. Really said, this is going to be great.

And everything was fine. You know, good old boy, he's ready to go. And then we started, we're going to put some Swahili in there with Stevie walks in. And the point we said was, don't veer off course. Yeah. Well, Stevie didn't get that memo. And so what happened was Stevie comes in and says,

we need some African phrasing, Tutu why no-no Willie Moingu Right, I remember that Tutu why no-no Willie Moingu and we said that about three times

in Whaling said Ain't no good old boy ever sang no Swahili I'm out of here And he left No way No way

And the joke was It wasn't Swahili But it didn't matter It didn't sound like Good old boy So I'm out You know But we all

When Willie Willie said Well there goes well That goes whaling I said okay Wait wait Wait, wait, wait, I want to know what the, I want to know what the, speaking of like, like, this sort of like just like nonsense or words. There's all, I think it's an all night long way to go.

There's that part, it goes, on the red do. Oh, Tambolite said the moya, yeah. What is that? It's a wonderful phrase that has gone around the world that means absolutely nothing. Yeah. Say it again. Say it again. No way, no way, say it said.

Tambolite said demo, yeah, jambu, jambu, jambu. We to patte, oh, we go with. Oh, chambalite said the boy, yeah, right? Now, here's the joke. The joke was I am now trying to find some African stuff, right? And so I go in and I go, let me call the UN. I figured I would call out and I said, I need how stupid I was, I need some phrasing from African dialect that says infectious party.

And the guy said, Lionel, there's 101 African dialects. I said, okay, so let me get this straight. So one part of Africa, he said, one tribe doesn't know what another tribe is saying. Okay, thank you very much. I hang up the phone. Call my friend from Jamaica. I said, when Bob Marley says, yeah, boy, Yanji, you mon, yeah, yeah, what is he saying? He says, absolutely nothing.

Yeah. So they're not getting. You follow me? Okay, so waboo, yeah, yeah. Oh, gee, well, what? Okay, nobody knows what the hell that is. Okay, great. Thank you very much.

Hung up the phone. Tambolite, says, yeah. You had license. Yeah. That's amazing. That is so awesome. So people stop me. I couldn't tell you for the first year.

People were saying to me, man, this is so great, man. You're tying the mumbo with mumbo, jumbo, jambo. And they're trying to tell me what it means. And I don't want to tell them. It means nothing. But I went along with it. Then finally, I just had to let the cat out of the bag. That's great.

I love that. How often are you getting out there enjoying all the love that you deserve from the crowds? Are you still enjoying getting out there and performing live? You do a bunch of dates still? People ask me, you know, how long does your tour last? I said, it's been going on since 71. Yeah. So how it works is very simple.

We just came off of a European tour, 34 dates, from London to drive. Germany to, you name it, U2, O2, the big arenas and a couple of stadiums. And the fact is, it's still happening. I mean, the point is, it's still happening. So when you walk out on stage, there's 100,000 people, you walk out on stage as 40,000 people. And the beautiful part about where it is now is that when I forget the lyrics, I just go, come on. And here we go. Yeah, yeah.

And it gets to the point now where it's even getting to the. point of the Rocky Horror show, they know all the parts. And the next thing they do, they walk out with the mustache, the hair, the afro, the whole thing. And those are the girls. Those are the ladies. So it's really like coming to, I did Glastonbury, which is the whole center of the book. The book starts at Glastonbury and works back. And there's 200,000, let me give you that name, 200,000 people.

dressed up like Lionel Ritchie. Wow. And it starts there and goes back to the beginning of, that's where the book is what it's all about. And so how did I get there? And when you see the security guards break out dancing, that becomes, okay, this is a happening. And so, you know, it's really the journey.

The book is all about the journey. Yeah, the longevity and the level of quality that you've maintained for, so long uh it's just so astonishing it's just really admirable yeah it is you you're just a you're such a like i said you're such a heavy weight you're just an incredible talent and we just uh just admire the heck out of you and your your book truly is on sale september 30th and uh i i urge everybody to get out and and read it and i read a bunch of parts i can't wait to read it it's so interesting and your story is so fantastic man and you bring such positivity you

got such a positive vibe. It's infectious. I love it. Yeah. And I'm an MTV baby, so I grew up on you. This is a little surreal to me. It's really, really cool. Well, first of all, I want to thank Will for inviting me.

This has been more fun and aha discovery yet again, you know. But it's wonderful to be able to kind of stay here at the other end. First of all, to be a live clothed in my right mind is probably a phenomenon in our business, you know. Normally what you have at the end of this is, well, when I came out of this clinic or when I came out of this rehab or when I... Sure. The trick is just kind of surviving this business because it's treacherous, as you well know. And so, you know, being a positive light, I've found that there's probably one, well, three simple words,

I love you is what the whole world wants to hear. That's right. So I didn't plan it. That's not me planning. It's just, you know, I happen. to get that mission to use those words and it's been it's serving me and end the world well well yeah congratulations on keeping your your your light bright all of these years and untarnished and shining it on all of us we really appreciate it thank you for the the hour you uh yeah hit us thanks for the great lionel richie

thank you very much guys what a pleasure pleasure pleasure and i hope our paths cross i promise it's somewhere if you see me out just come over and tap me on the show and say it hey It's me Will, Sean. Come on, hey, Rich, you know. We're going to take you up on that. Thank you, Lionel Richie. Thank you so much. Continue success.

This book truly comes out September 30th, Lionel Richie. Thanks for joining us, man. Love you guys. Thank you, Lionel. I love you too. Thanks so much. Bye, palu. Bye.

I feel bathed. Me too. Right? Me too. Isn't that it awesome when you meet somebody like that who just brings, like, positivity and you get, like, contrast. Like, just, I don't know.

You know, a lot of musicians that we've had on the show, I don't know what it is. If they've found the thing in such a young age that they love to do, that it feels, it might sound really cheesy, but it seems like they're so connected to their spirit and they're so joyful. Remember when Alicia Keys was on? I was just going to say,

she has been my favorite guest because of her light and her energy. And he is a co-eat, those are my kids. two favorite interviews. Lionel Richie and Alicia Keys. Those are very good. I think that you're right, Sean. I don't think it's cheesy at all. I think there is something about musicians

in that way that makes them special. Like you connected to something. I don't know. And then they emit that light. By the way, you know, I ran into out here, you're going to love this, Sean. I forgot to tell you. I ran into, I was at this thing

and all of a sudden I fell on the tap on their shoulders and he goes, hey, Will, it's Dave from Depeche Mode. And it was so funny. The way. The way he said, Dave from Depeche Mode. Wait, you was there? He was a sweet guy. Yeah, yeah.

He was, like, there's like a couple weeks ago, and I go, hey, man, we just, we just, we just died. By the way, you know he's coming to the show on Wednesday. Who? Good night, Oscar. Mark Hamel. No way. Wow. Oh, God.

Scotty works working on his outfit right now. Are you putting, are you going to wear a Depends? Yeah. Or two. Yeah. Oh, gosh. Honestly, I can't get over that, that Latin Richie, though. Yeah, amazing.

And that we know. I know, like I said, I was such an MTV guy. Like, I would see him. I would see him in all the music videos. And the hello video I was going to say, and it became more beautiful because the video with the blind girl, I don't know if you guys remember that.

But it was about this blind woman, and it was beautiful. Anyway, I loved that. The number of hits, that guy has had, he's got to be up there near the top as far as like, number one. It's like 150 million records sold worldwide. And he's that guy.

And he's like, hey, what's going on? Yeah. Yeah, he was going on. He's had like, like 10 or 12 number one hits. Like, it's just, it's insane. Yeah, and he's still touring. And it seems like he's 35 years old. No, kidding.

He looks amazing. I know. I know. What an inspiration, man. I want to come back as Lionel Richie. I know. I know. Do you think he'll write a sequel to the song, Hello?

Oh, what would you think it would be called? What kind of a name do you think he could give to it? I mean, if you were going to do a second part to hold on. Well, that's weird. How would you... Where would you even start? I would probably start. At the first time, I would say, goodbye.

Me? Is it me or not looking for? We would get your nuts out of the vice first. Goodbye. Bye. Bye. And I don't know that's bad. Bye.

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