SmartLess - "Lisa Kudrow"

Episode Date: July 29, 2024

Biology major Lisa Kudrow is here to teach. We dive into the deep end: getting fired, getting fired-up, cluster headaches, putting hands on, and Sean’s printer. Say yes to everything; it’s an all-new SmartLess.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Oh, man, I always forget how chilly it gets when I do a cold open. But man, I probably should have worn a hat. Even gloves would have been nice, but anyway, before I freeze my beans up, welcome to Smartless. You guys, I mean, don't make me cry. It's been a month and a half. I'm so happy to see you in your house in LA. It makes me feel really good. And I know that we're going to see you later. Later today.

Later today. I'm going to put my mouth on both of you right away. Hang on, hang on. One lip for each. That's another Sunday. Please stop, please stop, please stop now. Wait a minute, Jason, I know you told us a little bit about your character,

but is your character supposed to be clean at all? Hang on, tell us about your character. This is the start of a typical interview. Tell us about your character. What is it? As a storyteller, sorry Sean, you're gonna go, but. This is the start of a typical interview. Tell us about your character. What is it? No, because like- As a storyteller, sorry Sean, you're gonna go, but. No, well anyway, I don't really care.

I mean I care, but I mean like, is he supposed to bathe? No, and that's why I look like, you know, I mean, there's long hair and long beard and it's not, yeah, this is- Are you anxious to cut it all off or are you like, yeah? And we haven't even gone into the teeth of summer yet. I'll be going through summer in New York City with this long hair and look.

How's that beard gonna feel on 16 hour days in the summer in New York? It's gonna, however bad it feels, it's gonna smell even worse. Have you been trimming it now? Cause you've got it at a length that you like? Well, we had to trim it once just for continuity so it doesn't get too, but you know.

I get, you know, people maybe be like, should we worry, is there a hotline we can call into? Well, Amanda has been to us a bunch of times and even last, I mean, to anybody who'll listen. And then I last week at dinner, she was chewing somebody's ear off about, and then he just looks like somebody new and different. I heard her, I forget who she was sitting to see.

She's so. She's sitting next to Scotty. No, I know. Well, it's just about different, right? I mean, I look like somebody other than the person who's been sharing a bed with her for 25 years. So she's just seeing flashing green lights all over the place.

I actually think it's handsome. It is handsome. Thank you. I mean, maybe with a little trim of the beard, but the hair is. Yeah, you know who doesn't dig it? Maple, my 12 year old. She's just, she'll barely look at me.

Well, all she wants is Marty Bird back. Sure. Nice and short hair, you know, some kind of a banker look. What about the sleeves? Does Marty roll his sleeves up ever? Because Michael Bluth rolled his sleeves up. Well, he was always trying to get down to business. You know, well, I think about that every time, literally, that I turn up my sleeves. I hear you go, well, let's get down to business,

sure, and you know, you're not wrong. But yeah, so. But you're feeling good though, you're happy to be home. I'm very happy to be home. I cannot wait to see you guys tonight. This is the first time we've done one of these for six weeks.

I know, people don't realize we sometimes bank episodes and we had to do that because you were directing, so we were two months ahead. Right. And how are you feeling at the end of your directing? Did it go, did everything kind of pretty much go where you wanted it to? It went even better than I'd hoped. And that was because everybody came together so, so well, crew and the cast. Yes, Amanda said it was going really great.

Yeah, I can't wait for people to see it. Really, really proud of it. And it's called Black Rabbit. It's called Black Rabbit. But for some odd, you know, Netflix, God bless them, they're not dissimilar from other companies in that like right around when Star Wars started to get rekindled and Marvel started to go,

and people really tried to like steal scripts online and like get a jump on things and like release spoilers and stuff, all studios went to a pseudonym for projects. Right. Regardless of their budget scale, like this ain't Star Wars, you know? I mean, it's a great thing, but it's not.

Sean, I'm out. I was directed at you. Yeah. So we had to come up with a pseudonym per Netflix, and I was so like, oh my God, this is not a Marvel thing. We don't need a pseudonym. And I was so like over it when I got the email, and my dog Gary was just laying on my lap.

And so I said, let's call it Gary the dog. So all over the, so the show is called Gary the dog, if you're in New York. Like all the location signs and the call sheets, so that no one figures out where Black Rabbit's shooting. So they can't get pictures. No, it's- Like it's a state secret.

Ted, I'm sorry, he's gonna call me and yell at me perhaps, but it's just, yeah, I can't wait for my actual dog to show up on set and everyone will see. You know what that reminds me of? Sorry, just made me think. When we, years ago, what is this? More than 15 years ago, we were in the, we had finished shooting, it was about to be released,

Blades of Glory, the ice skating movie. Yeah. Me and Farrell and Amy and everybody. I love that movie. Fun movie. Directed by the great Will Speck and Josh Gordon. Our friends Will and Josh directed it. So I remember I was in a cab going downtown in New York on Broadway just above Canal Street

and I was talking to Will on my cell phone. I guess it was probably pre, just pre smartphone, talking to Will and as I was talking to him, this woman comes up to the window of the cab and she's holding up bootleg copy. The movie hasn't been released yet. Bootleg copies of Blades of Glory. And I said, hey, Will, do you want me to grab you a copy of the movie?

We hadn't even had the premiere yet. And a $6 Louis Vuitton bag. You were right there on canal, right? Remember piracy was like so super bad, like the physical piracy. Yeah, good. I do that, you know, I went to, Ali Wentworth and George Stephanopoulos' house for dinner,

and I didn't have anything last minute to bring as, you know, as you do when you go into somebody's house for dinner. Sure. Classic. So I stopped on the street and I bought, Jason, one of those $6 Prada bags, and for Ali, as like, instead of like a bottle of wine or something.

It's so brilliant. That's gonna be my thing now. I'm just gonna buy like 20 of them, have them in my closet, and if I don't have anything, I'm just gonna bring people like pink Prada bags. That just costs $6. By the way, now you got customs on your ass. They're like.

Yeah. That's a great idea. Guys, let's get to our guest. She's been so kindly waiting. She's a true Los Angeles native, but counterintuitively, showbiz wasn't her, always her career path. She graduated from Vassar with a degree in psychobiology.

Beautiful campus. And then went to work for her dad, a headache specialist. Huh? But one thing led to another, as it so often does in Tinseltown, and she ended up at the Groundlings, bit by the comedy bug. She's fluent in French, married to a Frenchman,

and I'm guessing loves french fries. All three of us would consider this person a friend, but to the rest of the world, she's one of six friends. It's Lisa Kudrow. Yeah, Lisa! Oh, with a gorgeous filter on. As soon as you said married to a Frenchman, I knew it was Lisa.

Michelle Stone. Michelle. Michelle. Michelle Stone. But I'm not fluent in French. Oh, you aren't? All right, I made that up. Michelle Stone. Michelle. Michelle. Michelle Stone. Oui. But I'm not fluent in French. Oh, you aren't? All right, I made that up.

What about French-Canadian? Yes. Yeah. You must speak a little bit of it because your husband... Yeah, I do. I speak a little of it because my husband. So is that on purpose? You didn't want to learn it.

Look, he just repeated everything. I know. That's so good. Your mirror work is phenomenal, by the way. Did you not learn the whole language so that you could tune him out when he's really going at you with some stuff? No, he just, he speaks so fast.

I couldn't. And I did take it in high school. I took four years of French. And you know Will speaks it fluently. Well, you know, I've spoken French with Michelle many times, but he ends up, you're right, he won't slow it down for you, so if you don't keep up, then he'll just flip to English,

because he's like, I'm not going to waste my time. Right, I know. Lisa, why do you look so pretty today, not that you don't always do, but like- Do you have a callback today? Yes, I thought this was it. So, this was an addition, and so. Because you know we're not like filming this.

No, but you look great, your lighting is good. Your lighting is good, and I love that you have enough self respect to like blur out your background, because you don't like, Sean wants us all to look at his Canon printer. Yeah, and his little baby Yoda that's hard to get. But you're like, I'm gonna be front and center. You look great, your lighting looks great,

you look phenomenal. No, but, because it's mayhem here. Is it? It looks like it could be a nice looking bookshelf back there. Maybe even better than Sean's. Yeah, it is. I'm actually trying to unblur it so you can see. Oh, there it is.

Oh, there it is. There it is. It's a little blurry. But you know what, that looks really nice like that. It's a shallow depth of field. At least you can kind of see this. Okay. Okay, so, go ahead.

I was gonna just get right to, can you help my daughter get into Vassar? You know, because we toured that campus. And she's got it. Is she interested in Jason? I don't know if she is, but I like, it looks like Hogwarts. I mean, it's so beautiful there.

It's really beautiful. A lot of people end up at Vassar just from the tour. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Really? And then they're disappointed they didn't go to Yale. But yeah, it's really beautiful. It's so, yeah, it's so beautiful. Was college a good experience for you?

Did you? I loved it. Yeah? With all my heart. I did too. Now, were you an academic or were you just sort of doing your sports so that you could party? No, she said yeah. I wanted to say yeah to the party. You kept talking, you didn't listen, she answered.

I like to drive people into the answer I want. Right. Well. You've forgotten, it's been a while. I was a biology major, so there was no choice but to be academic, because that's a big commitment. So what was the impetus for that? So you come out of high school,

you're kicking ass in science and math, and you're like, yeah, I'm gonna. Yeah, I thought I'll be pre-med. My dad's a doctor, my brother is starting medical school, and I thought, yeah, yeah, I'll be a doctor too. And was that interesting to you? Well, biology was really interesting to me. I loved it, biology, it's such a huge, it's such a norm.

What kind of doctor do you think you would have been? I don't know, I wasn't set on that, but halfway through I went, oh no, there's no way I'm gonna be a practicing physician. There's no way. So, but. Because, because. Because I realized I wasn't as interested in that as I was in, I liked evolutionary biology.

So I was just gonna continue and do. The will's big on creation biology. Go ahead Will. Yeah, sure. But ahead Will. Yeah. I went, remember the Paula Abdul song, Vibology? No we don't. No, nobody does. I used to pretend I was going to Vibology class.

I mean no offense to her, but nobody does. But wait, so Lisa, so your dad was a, Sean, did you say that, did he say it right? Your dad was specialized in headaches? Yeah. So what's that, talk to us a little bit about that. And yeah, I work in both offices. I got two headaches on the line with me every day.

How do you get rid of them? Maybe you can help me get rid of them. It's called recasting. Okay. Well, he got a lot of headaches and he was like a family practice or internist and then decided he would switch to just treating, researching, headache.

Wow. So was it migraines or just the simple, the common headache? Well, at the time, from what I remember, because I worked for him. Right. From college till friends, basically. Like in the summers or full time?

No, full time, after college. Wow, really? That was my day job, which was really lucky. Where was that? In Encino. Okay. And at the time, there's nine different headache types at that time. Let's have them.

So I don't know. Oh, I don't know. Well, we got migraine. Are there different subsets of migraines? Of migraine, yeah. Hemalegic, ophthalmic, classical. And do you know how to treat, like you and I know your son, and the second you feel something going on, you must know all about them to know what to do with them.

Right, where people are, all right, great. I mean, a little, but there's a lot of new medications. My brother's a headache specialist. He's a neurologist who took over when my dad Retired be honest is he in bed with the folks over at Bayer? in bad way, but I Am a while we're pulled over here for a second. I am I mean is the headache I? Mean it's mostly just like a blood flow problem, correct?

Or no? Well, I don't, yeah, I'm not entirely sure. But, I mean, the key. You were answering the phone, is that what you were doing there? You just doled out Tylenol? I mean, this sounds like a pretty shitty operation. I kind of knew a lot about cluster headache.

That was the subset of headaches you're around not a migraine What is that when you're around too many people? No, and is the classical headache from no, but that's a good guess. Yeah You know, I'm just about making people feel good Yeah And by the way, which leads me to, you told me before, we were hanging out at another friend's house.

Huh? And you told me, I was asking about your family growing up and you were like, I was the least funny in the house. Yeah. And I was like, what, as a kid? Yeah. And you said, and I always found that hard to believe, so were you interested in comedy at all?

Like, what tickled you? Oh, well, I'm the youngest in the family, so that's always like the least competent person in the house. Get away with a lot. How many siblings? I have two. Okay. And they're older and really funny.

And my dad is really funny and he's 91 and he still is. And so, yeah, I just would repeat what they said, bring it back to school and sometimes get in trouble because it's like six and eight years older than what was appropriate for kindergarten or first grade. But junior high, I did play production where we wrote sketches and performed them and that was huge for me. That was a very big deal. Was Saturday Night Live consequently like one of your favorite shows?

Yeah, I did. I loved it. I did love it. Yeah, same. I used to watch. Yeah. Gilded Rad. Was that a gold?

No way. You too? Sean, no way. What a weird coincidence. Sorry, let me just get one. Oh, you liked Saturday Night Live? Fuck it, breaking news. I know. Jesus Christ. Here's what's special about me. I loved Saturday Night Live.

I loved the Beatles. Look, I loved it too. They were really good. What about oxygen? Look at what you're doing. I know. I love breathing. Yeah, I breathe oxygen.

So was it Groundlings? Did you want to go there as maybe a path to potentially become a cast member? No, Groundlings, that was after college, and that really wasn't about, I wasn't, my goal was not Saturday Night Live, but my goal was to avoid a dramatic acting class at all costs.

Right, right, right. Because from what I understood, they seemed like cults and it was just people taking everything way too seriously. Yeah, I was in one once and it was like that, yeah. It was like, people used it as an excuse to not move on in life. Or therapy. Ooh. Or therapy, yeah. Ooh.

Whereas the world beaters in the comedy class. Yeah, well that was the huge revelation. Yeah. Was, ooh, the comedy folk are way off. Like there's something really wrong. Well also, it's a lot of fun. Yeah. Oh, like you get to laugh and have fun all the time.

See, that's a little secret, that feels good. Instead of trying to make people cry. I know, but let me ask you something. Of all the stand-ups, you know who is more serious than a stand-up? The stand-ups. That's so true. About their stand-up. Wait, who would you say is funnier in person

than on stage, and they're great on stage? Marty Short is the funniest. Zach Galifianakis? No, Zach Galifianakis is a stand up. He's the funniest person in person, which is hard to believe, because he's so funny on stage and in stuff. Will Ferrell?

Ferrell's got a stand up. Yeah, he never did stand up, right? Conan. Conan. Conan, incredibly funny. We'll be right back. Smartless gets support from Zip Recruiter. Summer's finally here and all those seasonal businesses

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This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I talked about this before, but it's very, very dangerous to compare yourself and your life to others. I know it's really easy to do that, especially with social media and looking at people's lives who are like, oh, you know, that person's life seems better than mine,

or they have more than me, or whatever it is, but it's really unhealthy, and you really gotta check yourself to get off of social media. and what might help you do that and cope with that is therapy. Because comparing yourself to others is a total joy killer. It's so easy to look at someone's social media

and think they've got it all figured out. But the truth is, everyone's got their own stuff going on behind the scenes that you can't see. Therapy can help you focus on what you want instead of what others have, so you can start living your best life if You're thinking of starting therapy give better help a try It's entirely online designed to be convenient flexible and suited to your schedule

Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with the licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge Stop comparing and start focusing with better help visit better help comm slash smart list today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelpHELP.com slash SmartList. And now back to the show. Having said all that, who, who, what I wanted to know, Lisa, who is in your class at groundless? Conan. So Conan was? I would have quit if not for Conan. That must have been exhausting. Oh, oh, sorry.

I thought you were gonna go the other way. He wouldn't make you quit. We'll cut that one, Will. Yeah, you were weird. Tell us about that at the Grounding. Yeah, it was nuts. Well, I couldn't take Grounding classes because they wouldn't let me

because I hadn't had enough experience with anything. So they sent me to Cynthia Seghetti, an improv teacher at the Coronet, which is now, God damn it. Largo. Thank you, yeah. And I went to the first class and thought, oh no, these are not my people and I can't do this.

Commit, I don't know what that means. And they're all embarrassing me with their like, you know, space ball, with an emotional adjustment, like grr. I went, I can't do this. I think I'm out of acting forever. And then the next week I said, all right, just go. You committed to this, just go.

And I was a little late and everyone was up there. It's like, no, no, I don't wanna break the flow. I'll just sit here and watch and die. And they were lifting a disc or something. An imaginary disc. Yes. Yeah. Right, space for a mime actually.

And so one of them was doing it, and it was Conan, this tall, really tall redhead guy, is lifting the disc and when he's angry, he's just kind of angry and he's just really lifting a disc or throwing the space ball without too much. And the teacher, Cynthia, was saying, good commitment. I went, oh, that's commitment. It's not embarrassing.

You're just really doing it. And I thought, okay, that guy. So I made sure, I made a beeline to him, said hi, I'm Lisa. That was really good. He said, I'm Conan. And we became best friends. That's amazing.

That's amazing. And is it true that Conan gives you credit for him taking over Letterman? Not credit, no. But a little push. Kind of, I mean, because he was asked to produce that show. Lorne Michaels asked Conan to be the producer.

So they were looking for someone to be the host and Conan would say, I want someone smart but funny, but who can have a conversation with writers, authors and politicians. And I said, well, that's you. So you should do it. Because nobody replaces David Letterman, you're nobody.

You know, so it's kind of the only. And at this point, was he the head writer on Saturday Night Live? No, he was at The Simpsons. Oh, that's right, The Simpsons. Had he been at Saturday Night Live or not yet there? No, he had already been, that's how Lauren Michaels knew him. Okay.

That's wild, and you guys have been close ever since, that's so cool, and then you actually went back to the Groundlings to teach, right? So then you became Cynthia. No, while you're at the Groundlings, you can teach. And I taught Cheryl Hines, was in my class. Some other people too, and I don't remember. I voted Will Ferrell into the Groundlings maybe.

Wow, that's so cool. Nice vote. Not me alone, but yeah. Well, but I would, you might wanna do a lap on that one though. Sure. I'd do a lap. An influential vote.

David Spade, sorry, just had another comedian who's very funny off. Yeah. Lisa, have you ever done stand-up? No, well, no. Would you? Would you? No.

Why? Because I don't wanna write jokes. But what about if somebody wrote them for you? What about being a host of a late night show? But what about, let's say, the monologue that the j Jimmy's do, or, you know, like, would you do that? Would you be comfortable with that?

No. No. Could you do late night? No. That's what I'm saying. What do you mean? Like, be a guest? Yeah, would you host a late night talk show?

What do you mean? You know what I mean. Okay, now you're being confrontational. See, I think that'd be such a great job. You listen to me. Yeah. No, I... Now Sean, you've done, and Will, you've done,

you've guest hosted Kimmel Show. Yeah. So you've done monologues up front there. What, is that a comfortable thing? I like it. Yeah, I would be really interested in trying it. No, but it's not just the monologues, because then you have to interview people,

which you all three know how to do. And that can be death. Yeah, I don't think I can do that. But it would be hard, I think it would be hard by ourself. Look how fucking shitty we are at it. But we get to like, it's cut three ways. If it was just me interviewing somebody,

I would, you'd answer a question, and I'd just be nodding at you and going, huh, that's great, I would not have my next question ready. That's the hard part of the job. No, that's my fear too. No, but even if somebody gives you the question, no, it would be hard just to give the impression that I'm interested.

Right. Yeah. But you know, I'll bet, I would love to watch the talk show, and Letterman was kind of good at this too, although he was a decent fellow about it, but he'd still let you see in just a little bit that he's not feeling this guest. This guest is not hitting the ball back like they should.

They're acting like they're doing us a favor by being on the show. And I used to like that. I used to like to try to read him. And nine times out of 10, the guest kind of deserved it. They were kind of being jerks and he wasn't helping them. And he kind of let them sink. I think you'd be good at that, Willie.

I don't know. I'm just looking at Lisa and I'm remembering, Lisa, have I ever told you this? I'm remembering the first time we ever met. Uh oh. Should Sean and I take a look back? We've remembering the first time we ever met. Uh-oh. Do you guys go to Sean? Should Sean and I take you to the park? We've gone on to work together.

Lisa and I did Bojack Horseman together. We've done some stuff, right? And it was really great. Great show, my God. And you were so great on it. But the first time we met, it was like the first year of Arrested Development. And somehow we were at the Beverly Hills Hotel, there was something going on,

you were meeting someone for lunch, and you were standing, do you remember this? No. You probably don't. I know, you told me this. I think I told you this, and you were still on, Friends was still like maybe this last year. Okay.

And I was such a huge fan, as you know, because I've bored you with it at least so many times, such a huge fan of The Comeback. I mean, I just frickin' loved it. What a genius, underappreciated show. You were so brilliant in it. And our good friend Mike Schur was on the staff and just an amazing, amazing, amazing show. For me was a mind blower. And so I just said hi to you and you, we sort of said hi and I made some stupid joke and you, you know, and you go, Oh, you are kind of like your character

on that show. I walked to my car and I was like, fucking what? I was being funny. I was trying to be funny. It really hurt my feelings. I drove and I crashed my car. I know, you told me. And I said then, I'm saying it now. I'm sorry.

Did you literally get in an accident? You got in an accident? No, I didn't get in. No, I didn't get in an accident. But I was like, cause she was like a big star. You know what I mean? And I was didn't get it. No, I didn't get in an accident, but I was like, I really, cause she was like a big star, you know what I mean? And I was like, whew. Still is.

I know. At least. But I felt like a ding dong, anyway. Tell my sister Tracy, who's listening from Wisconsin, cause I know I still love this show. By the way, I'm sorry, Tracy, I just, I've been gone for a month and a half. I just got home to that really sweet

Wisconsin Badger golf shirt you said he talked about it. No, but I had not opened it yet. I was still in New York and You know Tracy, I don't like it No, I love it I love it I love it and thank you, thank you, thank you. That's very sweet. But at least for my sister who may not know this story, I always find it so interesting, and a lot of people do know, but if you wouldn't mind, first of all, I want to go, Scottie and I watch episodes of Cheers a lot. Like, we'll take like 10 years off and then we'll watch Cheers again. Yeah.

You guys are nuts. Yeah, crazy. When you pop on there, it was like, oh my God, is that one of your first jobs on Shears? Or was that the first job? That was the first guest starring job on Tell Us Joke. With Woody Harrelson, it's so cool, you were so great on that.

Like Taft Hartley. Oh wow. Really? Yeah. And you met Jimmy Burroughs for the first time right there. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's where I was going, so then Frazier, right, or Mad About You then,

what was next? Frazier. Frazier. Well not next after I did other guest stars. Apparently I was on Coach like three times. Apparently. So what I am, as IMDB made a mistake. Do you not remember that experience?

That's right. Recently I worked with Linda Lavin and she said, and that's the thing that caught what, Jimmy? What? What was the thing that caught you? What was the thing that caught you? What was the thing that caught you? What was the thing that caught you? What was the thing that caught you? What was the thing that caught you? What was the thing that caught you?

What was the thing that caught you? What was the thing that caught you? What was the thing that caught you? What was the thing that caught you? What was the thing that caught you? What was the thing that caught you? What was the thing that caught you? What was the thing that caught you?

What was the thing that caught you? What was the thing that caught you? What was the thing that caught you? What was the thing that caught you? What was the thing that caught you? What was the thing that caught you? What was the thing that caught you? What was the thing that caught you?

What was the thing that caught you? What was the thing that caught you? What was the thing that caught you? What was the thing that caught you? What was the thing that caught you? What was the thing that caught you? What was the thing that caught you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when you were Ursula on Mad About You. And that I do remember. Okay, so and that's the thing that caught what? Jimmy Burroughs' attention, the network's attention, or what? No, David Crane's boyfriend, partner, is Jeffrey Cleric, and Jeffrey was a writer for Mad About You at the time. So when they were casting Friends,

Jeffrey said, what about Lisa, who's playing Ursula? That might be a good Phoebe. Wow. Right. But you didn't, but you filmed the part of Roz for Frasier before that? Yeah, yeah, I got, no, no, I didn't film it. I got fired before that. Oh, let's get off of Frasier.

You got fired from Frasier? Frasier, yeah. Isn't that interesting though? Is it because you put hands on Kelsey or David or you're just running him over? The dog had an issue with the dog. You know me so well, oh my God. You had an issue with the dog. Is it put hands on like ringing necks

or put hands on cupping somebody? No, no, no, that's striking somebody or shaking somebody vigorously. Well, you know how violent I am. Isn't it wild how just everything works out? Like you go get that, so you get that, and then it's just always. Yeah, I know. And it was devastating to get fired, but of course.

So when you went in for the part of Phoebe on Friends, you knew Jimmy already, Jimmy Burroughs, for those who don't know, directed the pilot and a bunch of the first season of Friends, the great Jimmy Burroughs, whom we all adore. So when you went to audition for that, he was already very familiar with you. He loved you, to audition for that, he was already very familiar with you. He loved you, evidently.

Well, he was familiar enough that, you know, he got fired from the last thing. By the way, do you know when we shot the reunion for Friends, or was it there, or something else, like a Jim Burroughs celebration, Yeah. where I learned I was the only cast member for Friends that had to audition for Jimmy Burroughs' celebration where I learned I was the only cast member for Friends that had to audition for Jimmy Burroughs.

Really? Really? Really? Why is that? Because I had just gotten fired from Frasier. Wow, wow. And he was directing it. So Jimmy had been instrumental in your firing from Frasier.

I don't know. He probably could have fought it. Probably. It sounds like it. You know. So he felt bad. He probably could have fought it. Probably. It sounds like it. I mean, let's listen. So he felt bad. He probably didn't want to cast you in Friends, was like, ah, listen, I already fired this kid once,

give her this job. No, he's not like that. You know what? He's smarter than that. No, but when I had my audition, I didn't. Let's pull him into this call. Yeah, can you just hold one second? No, when you went to your audition?

When I auditioned, it's just this small room. He's sitting at a desk, I'm in a chair, and the audition was like a little monologue thing. Where was it, do you remember? At Warner Brothers. And when I'm done, he just went, no notes. Wow. And I thought, all right.

But that's a good, that's. I don't know what that means. That's pretty good. Like it's hopeless, or it's perfect good idea. I don't know what that means. That's pretty good. Like it's hopeless or it's perfect. No, you did really well. Do you remember, do you remember, so you do that, that's probably in the spring of like 94, maybe 93, something like that, right?

Here she comes, Mrs. Mary Lynn Hedder. Of Friends, where you do the pilot. 94. 94, right, so I was right the first time. So you do the, I know. I don't know, yeah. And you do the pilot, you do the, you shoot the pilot, and do you remember the, I know. And you do the pilot, you shoot the pilot. And do you remember the different,

like do you have a moment like a year later or six months later where you're like, holy shit, my life has changed so quickly? No. No, you don't. No, it wasn't like that. It was Mad About You that changed a lot for me because I had been fired from Frasier

and then I did a guest star on Mad About You. They had me back, I'd already done a guest star the first season, so now I'm there for a different character. And my agents had said, you're not doing this. They called like in the morning, can she just come in an hour? The character is called Waitress, there's no name. And my agents at the time were saying, no, no, you can't, it doesn't even have a name,

don't do this. I said, I'm not in a position to say no. And it's to me the best show and I'm doing it. And by the end of the week, Danny Jacobson said, you're so funny, would you be okay doing five more episodes? Just went, yes. Oh, thank God you did that.

There's my rent for the year, I don't have to get another day job, yay! Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But then your dad's scrambling to find somebody to hand out the Tylenol. Yeah. You kinda screwed your dad over a little bit, luckily. Lisa, can you say or can you remember,

do you know why you were fired from Frasier? I don't, it just wasn't working. I don't know. So you were like mid-week, you were like through the producer run through, through the network run through or something and then they made a switch? But during the run throughs,

because Jimmy was saying like this isn't working, so just don't even. Right. They have to fix it. Because I was trying to like what's not working, what can I do? But I think they did make a casting mistake with me because I went to the network with Perry Gilpin.

Yeah. Oh wow. And for whatever reason. Who got the part? Yes, and so I think they were just correcting a mistake. Got it. Got it, got it, got it. Because Perry should have always been Ross.

Right, right, right, right, right. Yeah, it's such a funny, you guys, well we've talked about it a little bit, but you've been fired from a role that you just weren't right for before, have you? I have, I mean, sort of. I, right, right, right, right. Yeah, it's such a funny, you guys, well we've talked about it a little bit, but you've been fired from a role that you just weren't right for before, have you? I have, I mean, certainly. I got fired and then retired. Or the stuff that you don't get

and then you end up being available for the thing that you, I mean, like, you know, that classic story of you and Rain on Arrested Development. Well, first of all, no, the year before I got fired off that pilot, that it was, the show became Still Standing, and when it went to, it got picked up for series

and I didn't get picked up. But it would never felt right. And had I not been fired, at the time I was like, fuck, what a great job. Had I not been fired, I wouldn't have been available for rest of the film. And it was the same casting director, Deb Burelski, whom I adore.

But can I ask you guys something when you are fired from something? Yeah. I mean, I know for me, there's that moment of, wow, maybe this just isn't supposed to work out, this career choice. Oh yeah, all the time. Oh, you did have that when?

I have it every day, still. Oh, yeah, it's not working out. You know what, Lisa, I did, like, my thing was like, I was so, I ended up getting fired, and I said, I was kinda like, fuck them like, I was so, I ended up getting fired and I said, I was kind of like, fuck them. And I was living in New York at the time, Amy was doing SNL and I was like, I'm gonna do, I happened to do, you know what, that summer I happened to do,

or no, a couple summers before, I happened to do a reading at New York Stage and Film, one of those reading things at Vassar. Yeah, yeah, powerhouse. Yeah, yeah, so you're there for like a week and you're kind of workshopping a new play and I met this playwright and this director and he ended up calling me and saying,

I'm gonna do this play with a new group off Broadway. And so I was like, I'm just gonna stay in New York and do theater and fuck TV. That was my thing was like, they're not firing me, I'm firing them. I'm firing the whole TV business like they cared. And. Right, that'll show them.

But that kind of made me get my head around it, feel better about myself. That's how I dealt with it. That's great. But you're right, Lisa. It's so, all you need is just one firing and you think maybe I just don't, because it's so thin what we do.

It's not backed up by credentials and diplomas and four years of finishing school and all of that stuff. It's just, it's so sort of subjective. And also Lisa, think about it, similarly to you, within a year my life changed after that moment where I thought it was all done, my life changed forever, same for you. Yeah, yeah, that's right.

I mean, but that's what's important to me, like for younger artists who definitely have talent. And yes, you can be discouraged, but then you've gotta pull yourself back up. Like, you know, that can't be your mindset for too long, otherwise it won't work out. It's just not going to work out. It'll win. That mindset will win. We'll be right back.

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That's audible.com slash smartless or text smartless to 500 500 to try Audible free for 30 days. Audible.com slash smartless. Everything to play for has taken on its biggest challenge yet. We've had two-parters, we've even had three-parters.ters. This is a four parter and the reason why we're giving it four podcasts is it's probably the greatest individual rivalry in Premier League history.

Yes, Arsene Wenger versus Alex Ferguson. We've bitten off more than we can chew. And what it reminds me of, I saw a video on social media the other day of a python having swallowed a duvet. And the vets were trying to get the duvet out of the python. I thought that is like me and Colin having to skip over FA Cup finals because there's so much to talk about when it comes to Wenger and Ferguson. Doubles, trebles, pizza round the face, it has everything. If you want to listen to the podcast equivalent of a python swallowing a duvet, follow everything to play for on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. You

can binge seasons early and ad free right now on Wondry Plus. I'm Mike Bubbins. I'm Ellis James. And I'm Steph Guerrero and we're convinced that our podcast the socially distant sports bar is going to be your new Favorite comedy podcast with just a little bit of sport thrown in you don't have to love sport like sport Or even know anything about sport to listen because nobody has conversations which stay on topic and it's the same on our podcast We might start off talking about ice hockey but end up discussing, I don't know, 1980s British sitcom Alo Alo instead. Imagine using the word nuance in your pitch for Alo Alo.

He's not cheating on his wife, he's French. It's a different culture. If you like me and Mammoth, or you like Alison Fanny's Football League, then you'll love our podcast. Follow The Socially Distant Sports Bar wherever you get your podcasts. The Socially Distanced Sports Bar, it's not about asymmetrical overlords. James podcasting from his study and you have to say that's magnificent. From Wondery, I'm Indra Varma and this is The Spy Who. This season we open the file on Oleg Penkovsky, the spy who defused the missile crisis.

It's 1960 and the world's on the brink of nuclear war. However, one man in Moscow is about to emerge from the shadows with an offer for the CIA. His name is Oleg Penkovsky. As a Cold War double agent, Penkovsky wants to supply the US with the Soviet Union's greatest nuclear secrets. But is this man putting his life on the line to save the world, or is he part of an elaborate trap?

Follow the Spy Who on the Wondry app, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Or you can binge the full season of the Spy Who on the Wondry app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Or you can binge the full season of the Spy Who defused the missile crisis early and app free with Wondry Plus. And now back to the show. Lisa, let me ask you this on this on this subject, because I was just talking about it, because sometimes, I'm sure you guys have had it too, and like, you know, my parents will be like,

so and so's grandnephew wants to be an actor. Well, you talked to him, and I was thinking like, I wanna be generous, but also, and I was just talking about it two hours ago, and of what would I say, what would you do if you were 20 years old today starting over again? It's such a different world from when we all started. Yeah. Certainly the show business is so much different because of social media, et cetera. What would you say to somebody

who is trying to do what you're doing to your 20 years, 20 year old you today? What would you say? So different now. Well, is it that different in a, I think it's different in a good way though, because what I had always said was, say yes to everything except porn. That was always my advice. Sean, yeah.

Darn it. Well, but it worked out anyway for you. And that's a joke everybody listening. No, still say no to porn, I think. I mean, I guess it depends on your level of comfort. Yeah, and what you think porn is. Everything's okay now. That's another issue.

But that was it. It was just say yes to everything. You have no idea who's gonna see it. You have no idea what it's gonna lead to, what you're gonna learn from doing it. And now everyone has a camera and can post it on something. Yeah. The tough part, I think for me, it would be like,

I would say to somebody, and these are unrealistic sort of parameters, is that like, yeah, go do it if you don't need it in order to make a living. And also if you don't need it in order to make a living, and also if you don't need to be hired to find validation about your talent. Like those are two really hard things to, like my confidence was always tied to being chosen,

to being employed. You know, like if I didn't get the job, I can't feel good about myself. Once I got the job, I was fucking perfect. I was just bulletproof, and then inevitably the job is over, and that good about myself. Once I got the job, I was fucking perfect. I was just bulletproof. And then inevitably the job is over. And that's tantamount to being fired. And you gotta go find another job.

And until I got that job, I couldn't feel good about myself. And so my self-esteem was always tied to employment. Employment is not in your control. So therefore the way you feel about yourself is not in your control. And that was a real tough thing for me. And then also, if you have to, if it's your only way to make a living,

it's really stressful. Yeah, I agree and I think that you're right. And we've talked about this before again, which is I've never believed, I think it's really dangerous to tie your self-worth into what you're doing, right? But at the same time, JB, think about it, your perspective is different because you grew up

working your whole life since you were a kid. Sean and I came into it later from other parts of the world. You grew up in Los Angeles, Lisa, but again, you came from a different world, kind of a whole different world. Yeah, and I was being employed at a time when I didn't really care about being employed, and then when it became important to be employed,

things had sort of dried out for me. And so, I needed to make money and I also needed to feel good about myself. And it was just tough. And it forced me to do some of the work that people should do earlier, which is get a good base of self-esteem and self-worth before you enter the workforce. Right, that's hard to do, period.

I mean, that's sort of like the whole lifelong commitment. Exactly, that's the journey right there. I have something to say about friends still. Okay, okay. Just one thing. Sorry, we got a caller here, go ahead. Yes, we were all friends, yeah. Is that it?

Okay. What are your thoughts about the ebb and flow of the show? Because I remember when I moved to LA, Friends was obviously massive. I moved in 95 and it was huge. And then there was a hibernation period after it was over and then Netflix took over and there was this resurgence of popularity,

not that it ever went away, but it just came back, this massive, almost as big as when it first started. And what was that like? Did you feel that change again? Or were you just like, I'm still here, it doesn't affect me? Yeah, but I mean, it was always on in syndication.

So. Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. But even in syndication, it didn't seem like it made as big of an impact as it did when it moved to Netflix. Right, that's what I heard. Well, yeah, but that's the fun, speaking more to the phenomena of Netflix than anyone else. But it was so popular and it's undeniable, right?

So like we're just sort of stating the obvious. It was so incredibly popular and still is, but so popular and also so internationally popular. It was so big, it kind of, it was able to do a thing that very few American shows did, which was sort of transcend sort of language and all sorts of things. I mean, every one of my adult friends in the UK

are massive fans of friends in a way that's really- Everybody I know. It's true. But Lise, you went on to, you're one of the few who had such an iconic character on a television show and then you achieved what seems like from the outside the impossible and parlayed that into and broke out of Phoebe, which a lot of people can't do. Oh, you think I did?

You did, Romia Michele's high school reunion, opposite of sex. I analyzed this, you were so fucking great, analyzed this. And then... The comeback? The comeback, so that's what I was getting to because I'm a massive, massive fan of that show. I've seen every episode, I love it so much. Valerie Cherish is one of the funniest characters I've ever seen in my whole life. Thanks!

Truly, and then I was on it, so thank you. And then, but talk to me about that character and how you came up with it. Is it based on a real person? And if you haven't seen The Comeback, see The Comeback. It's so funny. That's incredible. Thanks, I know, I'm the most proud of The Comeback.

Yeah, you should be, it's so great. The most. But how did you come up with that character? Well, I mean, it's a composite of people, honestly. I'm not trying to, you know, be coy. But it just was a composite of a lot of different people that you'd see on talk shows. I had a character at the Groundlings called

your favorite actress on a talk show. That's funny. That's funny. And is that a little bit of Valerie Cherish? Well, it was, I mean, because it was way before Valerie Cher is that a little bit of Valerie Cherish? Well, it was. I mean, because it was way before Valerie Cherish. Can we speak to Valerie Cherish? No, I'm just kidding.

Yes, you can. Welcome to Smartless. This is nice. Thanks. Oh my God, you actually did it. I love it. You actually did that. I love it.

I was being coy. All right. Valerie, Valerie, are you comfortable being on a podcast at all? If it's being broadcast, I'm comfortable. It's so funny. Wait, okay, so it's a little bit of background. She says everything like it's a sitcom. Like a tag.

She says it's a tag or a button. Wait, what? Yeah, a button. A blow. A blow. A, what? Yeah, button. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so good. A blow. A blow. A blow.

It's so funny. Are you gonna do more of them? Oh God, I would love to. Well, why can't it be Curb Your Enthusiasm? You just do a season whenever you want. Well, because Larry David can call up HBO and say, all right, I want to do more, okay. Yeah, but the comeback is huge.

The comeback was huge. Well, yeah, well see, I want to do more, okay. Yeah, but the comeback is huge. The comeback was huge. Well, yeah, we'll see. Michael Patrick King is busy with, and just like that. That's actually something, yeah. What is your level of effort and interest in creating new shows, new characters? Where does all that sit with you right now? Where do most of your interests lie?

That's such a good question. I mean, I've spent the last few years being really interested in not producing and just acting and being cast. And so I've done that, it's just none of it has come out yet. But it will, all this year. Is it producing boring? Is it boring?

No, it's not that it's boring. I mean, for me it just felt, yeah, it's a lot of work. It's a little boring for very little payoff, yeah. Yeah, I got tired of making other people money, and big money that way. Right, so there's that, but then also, it just felt so fraught, you know, also just with like HR issues and things like that.

So I just wanted, okay, I'm not producing. Yeah, because as an actor, everything's done basically and then you get cast and then you're just a few weeks away from actual shooting. You like, you even skip all the pre-production and all that stuff, not to mention all the development and the pitching and the budgeting and all of that. It's just like so many different points in the process

that can go wrong and you can be frustrated, yeah? Yeah, no, that's exactly right. I mean, I loved, I produced a show, Who Do You Think You Are? Which is not scripted. I was on it. Yes, oh my God, that was such a good episode. I mean, it was so fascinating.

Yeah, and I loved doing that. I mean, I loved the research stage. The editing and how you're gonna lay out the story for the person to discover and where the documents are found and that stuff. I loved doing that show, producing that. That's great. And that's it. But I mean,

everything else is like, wow. And that's it. I don't know. But the comeback, yes, I mean, because I write the comeback with Michael, so yeah. Love it, just love it. It's so good. So wait, really quick, I have something else to talk,

I wanna talk about Time Bandits, because I loved that movie as a kid, and now you're in the series, Time Bandits. Oh, you did, you loved that movie. I loved it. I've seen it a ton of times. Yeah. I loved it. I liked it too, I saw it in the theater too.

What, can you tell me a little bit, Taika Waititi, right, he's directing, or wrote it, or both, or? Both, Taika and Jemaine Clement. Yup. What about Ian Morris? And Ian Morris, yes, fantastic, but when I first learned about it was just

Taika and Jemaine wrote the pilot. And I went, well, I don't care, yes. Do I need to read it? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I'd be happy with those. It's in New Zealand, I've always wanted to see? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I'd love to read it with those kind of people. And it's in New Zealand. I've always wanted to see New Zealand. Right.

So, yes. They still have the Hobbitville there from Lord of the Rings. Yeah, not where we were shooting. That's not where you're shooting, okay. And I didn't see that. But it would work well, because time management. Because I was busy working.

All right, fine. So I didn't see much. Someone who's got a future in locations, okay. So this is a series that you've shot that's yet to come out? It's coming out July, I think 26th. Nice. On Apple.

On Apple. That's so exciting, I can't wait to see it. I know, I'm trying right now with this system to watch, you know this PICS thing and they send you and then you can try to watch things on it? It's really hard. It's very difficult. Tell me about, if you can try to watch things on it. It's really hard. It's very difficult. Tell me about, if you can,

a really crazy Groundlings theater story, like something that went wrong or awry. Oh, God. Fucking Sean. I love it. I love you so much. I love it. Because I used to do a show with the Groundlings.

You did? Yeah, with my friend Darlene Hunt. She is Darlene. Darlene Hunt, and it was called... No, it was called... Sorry, and then something went wrong, Shani? Name of the show, does it really matter that much? As soon as you wrap this up, we'll get to the answer?

Platonically incorrect. Oh man, thank God we paused. And then what happened? Oh, that's good. It's a good title, right? Oh, he's proud of himself. No, I just had to wear false teeth and they popped out a couple times.

What? No, it's, fuck. No, but I didn't know if you had anything. Because we all have the same friends from the ground, like we all know a lot of the same people. Tim Bagley. It's the stuff that happened backstage that was bad. That's what I'm saying, friends from the groundlings. We all know a lot of people Tim Bagley. It's the stuff that happened backstage That's I'm saying that's bad part, you know, cuz oh, yeah

No, I have a lot of those cuz I am always working on my filter. Mm-hmm with people Because I to me facts don't hurt, you know So, you know like letting someone know like oh, I don't know about that sketch. It's more of like a ditty than a sketch. I mean, you just sort of, like, it feels like it belongs on a cruise ship. So this is a recurring theme.

So when you go like, oh, you're just like your character. Like, that's just something in your filter. Well, no, but here. Well, but I know I do that. So sometimes that's my joke too. Do you know what I mean? Then I'm being the person with no filter. How about just, you're know I do that. So sometimes that's my joke too. Do you know what I mean? Then I'm being the person with no filter. How about just you're not full of shit

and I think that's great. Thanks, Jason. Don't change that. I mean, you're not hurting people's feelings, right? You've got a filter that keeps you from really chopping somebody's legs off. I mean, you know, you gotta amp it up just a little bit to get to him. Yeah. But that, I guess, you know, you gotta amp it up just a little bit to get to him.

Yeah. But that I guess was rough, and I didn't think it was rough to say. To me, it's just a song. But we were all being asked, what do you think of this piece? So, to be fair. But, and that, by the way, was Mike Hitchcock,

who's hilarious. Hilarious. Genius talent. And then one time backstage at the groundings, he came and he said, I had a dream about you last night. I said, oh, you did? He said, yeah, you threw acid in my face. He's really funny, that guy.

From the thing, is that because of the, he's like, that was my dream. Well, speaking of dreams, we've taken up way too much of your time, Lisa Q. You are a dream. You are a dream. Thank you for coming on, honey. We love you. I really enjoyed talking to you. Please say hi to Michelle.

I will. Ask him if to Michelle. I will. Yeah, ask him if he needs new wedges. What's a wedge? It's a golf club. I saw Michelle twice last week. Oh, you did? Yeah. Yeah, that's great. I love golf stories. No, that's another podcast. Listener, that's another podcast. Listen, that's sarcasm. Alright, Liz, we love you. I'm sure we'll see you soon. Yeah, I hope so.

Yeah, so great to see you. You're the best. You guys are. Thank you for doing this. Do I log off? Do I just slam it? Yeah, just slam it or do whatever you want. Okay. Bye. Okay. Yeah, you can just. Bye.

Bye. Bye. The great. I think the great Lisa Kudrow. You think anybody ever calls her LK? Why not? I would call her LK. That's a good. We call you JB, but nobody says WA

because that's too much work. No, it's not fun. Yeah. It's tough. SH, not fun. JB shh, shh. JB, just kind of like that shitty. Like a butler. Some kind of a, yeah, I don't know where I got that from,

but maybe I should, but LK is good to say, right? Okay, okay. You should workshop it, man. Yeah, boy, we're doing that now, right? Yeah, just run it out there. Listeners go ahead and call in while we're still on. But isn't she good? You know, Jay, you said a while ago about Larry David,

you were like, boy, you just did, you did Seinfeld, then you did Curb Your Enthusiasm, you just did really two things that were, I mean, you did other things, of course, but two shows that were just hit huge. And she did many shows that hit, like, and movies and stuff. And because she takes the time to create characters and like specificity of all of and stuff. And she takes the time to create characters and specificity of all of that stuff.

And to me, she's always taken the time and the energy to make something great or make sure it can be great. Yeah, and the whole people I talk to, people I hear from, she's universally thought of as just like high taste, really smart comedy, which comes from being a good actor, I think, you know? I mean, she says that she's not that interested in drama, or at least she said in the beginning,

she wasn't interested in drama class. I'll bet if she took a dramatic role, which she'd probably done. Yeah, she has done, yeah. But that she makes you cry real quick. Yeah. Yeah, she's awesome. And just such a talent.

And she's so... It's funny that she plays that character of Phoebe on Friends Who's sort of kind of out there and whatever. And yet Lisa's so razor sharp, like so smart. I know razor sharp. And she got her beginnings, you know, being smart by going to Vassar, studying that one science. And working in a doctor's office.

Biology. Oh, oh, oh, yes, sorry. Bye. Bye. Smart. Nice. Smart. Less. Smart. Less. Smart.

Less. Smart. Less. Smart. Less. Smart. Less. Smart.

Less. Smart. Less. Smart. Less. Smart. Less. Smart.

Less. Smart. Less. Smartjarff. SmartLess If you like SmartLess, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondry.com slash survey. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart.

And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I just like to go ahead and say that

if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. With a touch of humor, a dash of sarcasm, and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the wayback machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts.