SmartLess - "Maggie Gyllenhaal"

Episode Date: March 23, 2026

We walk the tightrope with Maggie Gyllenhaal. Come explore the edges of the mind: stacking wood, eating avocados, bird watching, and what is exercise? It’s fake learning for real… an all-new SmartLess. Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of SmartLess ad-free and a whole week early. Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Okay, real quick on the social media thing, guys. Yeah. Every week. If you also want to post it, you just hit accept. Cool. We're going to send it to you, not via email anymore. Right. And if you want to post it, you just hit accept.

Yeah. And then it's just going to post right there. Great. And then is everybody like that? Incredible. You're cool with that, J.B? Yeah, that sounds really fun. Can we get to an old new smart list now?

Yeah. Smart. It's been a little bit. How have you guys been? What have you been up to? We just saw each other on the weekend at Sean's play. That's right. That was fun, Sean.

Congrats. You're just such a beauty. You're so. That's very nice. You're such a talent. It's really. Has it been, how many performances have you had since we saw you? Three more than when you saw.

But by the way, I have to say this. Okay, go ahead. First of all, the fact that you guys were great. The fact that you guys came out, you flew out just to see the show. meant the world to me. I love you guys. You're like, you are my family. We love you.

And I love you too. And it just was a huge deal to me that you guys did that. So thank you very, very much. Oh, you kidding. Well, was it not? Because, you know, we were, some people in the group had to evacuate their bowels

before the start of the show. And so they wanted to use the restroom there. And so you can. What upstairs you mean? Oh, yeah. And so we're sitting there in the little like... I would say it's just say they wanted to use the restroom. Like, why doesn't it have to be grapies?

And so we're sitting there waiting for the people with the weak bladder and out walks Sean to talk to, I think, the director or something. Yeah, yeah. And you ran right into us. And I saw in your face like, oh, oh, you saw someone before the show, kind of like a marriage. That's right, that's right. And so did we screw things up? No, not at all.

not have people that you know in the audience? No, no, I love it. You knew we were all in a video. Yeah, I knew. I knew, I knew all there, yeah. But I didn't, yeah, I would have, it was no big deal because I saw you, and I wanted to talk to all of you, obviously, because I hadn't seen you in so long.

But then I was like, oh, you know what? Let's just leave the facade up for a second, and then I'll talk to them after. Now, when you look out into the audience, which you do a lot, because listener, it is a one-man show, and he is telling the audience's story, Can you not see any of our faces?

Can't see anybody. I love it. Yeah, because if I did, it'd make me nervous, but the lights are so bright. You can't see a foot in front of it. Because you were looking right at me for a lot of the show, and I thought, oh, really?

Make sure I don't make any funny faces or throw them off because I don't want you to look, you know, forgetting your lines. I gotta say that's classic you that you thought he was looking at you. Right, no, they're just looking right at me. He chose me to look at. No, yeah, no, I couldn't see anybody. Well, like, when you, Jason, if you hear a song, a new song in the radio, are you thinking like, how do they, how do they know that about me?

They must be singing about me. Yeah, exactly. And how were we as an audience? Fantastic, great show. Yeah, really good show. Do we laugh in all the right spots? You did, and I told you the night before, I'm glad you didn't come to opening night because the lights went out. Oh, yeah, you've got to hear, Sean, do you have any funny theater stories?

I mean, yeah. So the line that it went, I don't think it told you. The line that it went out on was, because I play these characters, but I also play the narrator, so sometimes you just deliver straight lines that narrate. And so one of the exposition lines that I narrated was, we walked to the Hudson River. And then I walked down stage, and every light went out.

Like, you couldn't see your hand in front of your face. And I'm like, hey, give us a couple minutes. I just said to the audience, and I walked off stage. And it was like 10 minutes, which was a really long time. A breaker, they had a breaker that went out or something. They fixed it, and they go, okay, let's go back on. And they go back and, of course, the audience claps. Yay, they got the fix.

The guy's back. So I go, we walked to the Hudson River. It was a really long walk. Good for you, Shil. Good for you. And is there, so now are you feeling, I would feel, the crush of the rest of the run in front of me now that, like, opening night is over,

and the reviews came in, and they were incredible. And, like, can you still, as the kids say, get it up for the rest of the show? Yeah, for sure. I think it's easier now. Okay. Yeah, I think all that stuff where you're, it's tech and previews and rehearsal and press and opening night and then all that stuff. It's so much pressure and stress and anxiety and all that. Now it's just like, oh, I just have to do the show and come home, which is nice.

And you've got today off. And today is off, yeah. So what do you do today? What have you loaded into today that you couldn't do on the previous six? I'm hanging with you guys. That's it all that. And you're hanging with us. And our special guest.

Oh, that was really nice. Our special guest, yeah. And you'll like it because we can talk about all these things. You can talk about theater. I bet you she's got some theater stories because she's done quite a bit of theater. Oh. And she's done quite a bit of film.

And some award-winning television. Triple threat. She's the daughter of two writer-directors. Academy Award nominee. Her mom was nominated for Academy Award, I believe. both her parents are writer-directors. She'd born in New York, grew up in L.A. Her brother is an acclaimed actor.

She has a new film coming out March 6. Is this Maggie? That has an amazing... Is it? Called The Bride starring Jesse Buckley, Christian Bill. It's Maggie Gillen. Yes, Shawnee? Shelly got it.

We have to establish a gift or a prize for whoever gets it. I know. That's pretty good at it. Hi, Maggie. How about that? Hi, guys. Hi. Hi.

Well, I gotta say that trailer at The Bride looks effing, fantastic. Oh my God. I can't wait to see it. Thank you. Cannot wait. I can't wait either. I mean, this, talk about a, just an absolutely star-studded cast. It's unbelievable, Maggie.

Well, believable. I mean, believable. I mean incredible director. Why would they want to, you know. I don't mean unbelievable in that way. I don't mean unbelievable in that way. I mean, unbelievable how great it is. That's what I mean.

Truly. Yeah, amazing actors. Amazing. I know. Oh, my God. All right. So when do we get to see this movie? And we're going to talk about the rest of your career.

But when do we get to see this movie? When's it come out? March 6th. March 6th. So it's probably out now. The bride. Yeah. So, all right, Maggie.

Maggie, Joie. This is so nice. Hi, guys. Are you loving directing more than acting? I am, yeah. Yeah, right. Are you more than acting? Tell me why.

I mean, it's like really you are in charge. of everything, which then means that you can make space for everyone else to offer what they want, express what they want. You're not, you know, like when you're an actor and you're like, okay, I need to make sure that I just create the space for myself to get out the couple of things that are the most important things to me in case nobody lets me. You know that feeling? Like, you know, you're just trying to figure out, like, how to just protect your little

thing, which is the reason why you came to do it. When you're the director, you don't have to do that, first of all. And also, you don't have to make other people do that. You can just make it okay for them to feel free. So you must have, I mean, obviously, as I pointed out, that you come by quite honestly, both your parents are directors and writers. And so did you, but then you've had such an acclaimed acting career before you directed your first piece.

But did you know in the back of your mind because it was just so there that that was your ultimate destination? Like, was acting a way of sort of getting there? I mean, I... First of all, yes, my dad was a director growing up. My mom was a writer. She did direct a film,

but it wasn't until, I think she was 70. You know, it was like a total wild departure. That's cool. For her. I think she might be the... one of the only people to direct their first film as a grandmother. That's cool. I told your brother when he was on that I had dinner with your mom once

years and years and years ago, and I was talking to her about writing. And it's the first time I ever heard anybody say the hardest part is starting about writing. And I was like, oh, that blew my mind because I was like, I tried to. I was like, I couldn't do it. It's like exercising.

Just get your clothes on. If you have your exercise clothes on and you don't exercise, then you really fucked up. Sean, so exercising is this thing that people... You break the sweat. This is not for Tracy. This is for Sean. But you were asking me if I always wanted to be a director.

I don't think so. I think I, to be honest, I don't even... I didn't even allow myself to fantasize or imagine that it was a possibility for a long time. I mean, there weren't any other women doing it. I mean, there were, but I wasn't cool enough to know about. like Agnes Varda when I was in high school, you know? I mean, I really, the people who were really doing great stuff on film were actresses, at least from my perspective, and I had, I looked up to so many people who were, you know,

totally expressing themselves and being incredible, but I didn't see a lot of directors. And then I played a director on TV. I mean, I played a porn director on The Deuce. Yes, right. But I think that was actually sort of part of just imagining, fantasizing. It, like, allowed me to imagine it. So what was the first, I'm trying to think the first thing that you directed? The Lost Daughter.

It was the Lost Daughter. Yeah. Which was super well received. And so then, but that was only, that was like five years ago, maybe, the Lost Daughter, right? Four years ago? Four or five years ago? Four or five years ago, yeah. So, but was there any time before,

was that really the first time that you allowed yourself to kind of contemplate doing it? You must have. I spent, I mean, you guys must know what I mean. Like, I sort of just was talking about this, like that feeling of like how, you know, it's almost like when you're a kid and you're like, if I had this job,

I would never speak to someone like this. Or I would never make them twist themselves into a pretzel to get this tiny thing, like cut this line or whatever. And so I guess I imagined it in that level Or even with writing I would cut chunks of dialogue Or just kind of sneakily move a line But no, I think really I just kind of went

All right, I'm going to try this I'm going to, I did it, I wrote Lost Daughter also And each step I thought, okay, I'm just going to take this step And we'll see how it feels And then once I started doing it, I think I immediately just went this is a way better job for me. Yeah. Yeah. And what was that when you direct your first directing gig,

what was the thing that you were overwhelmed with or scared about the most? Before, before I did it? Like as you were prepping the film, what was the most thing you were scared about? It's funny. I was so much scarter about making the bride

than I ever was about making the lost daughter. I was scared, I was. But I think in some ways I didn't even know what I was walking into. I mean, that said, I'd been on so many sets. I think about directors who are really first-time directors who don't know how to read a call sheet, you know, who don't know what the rhythm of a day feels like,

who, that must be really, really scary. Yeah, so when you're doing the bride, like you kind of, now you know, so you've had the experience, right? So then you have that anticipation of like, shit, now I know where some of the pitfalls are. How's that going to go? How's that emergency going to go? But even more than that, I think with the bride, I actually was terrified before I started.

I was like, I wrote the script. It came out very, not easily, obviously. Writing is so hard, but there wasn't ease to it. And then I was scared. I was really scared. The bride was number two, the second film. Yeah. And it's a significant jump forward as far as budget and scope.

and just basic responsibility, a big piece of Hollywood business too and big huge stars. And yeah, that must have been, yeah, sobering to say the least. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. On set, even though it was, as you say, like the scope was just much bigger, it felt very similar to The Lost Daughter

in terms of just working, workflow, how we did it. And I didn't know that it would, and I think that's part of why I was scared. But once we got working, it was the same. And yet, actually, maybe even easier in some ways because the heads of every department were incredible. Yeah. You know, I mean, in Greece...

And you had a longer schedule, too, right? We had a longer schedule. I mean, like, maybe even twice as long. I shot... Not quite twice as long, but I shot the last daughter in 2016. So it was really quick. Wow. That's fast.

But there was so much story and there was so much to do. It wasn't like we were hanging out eating sushi. We were really working on the bride. We were like, you know, down to the minute every day. But I do think also like the bigger scope and the excellent, excellent crew, I mean, had a great crew in Greece on The Lost Daughter, but they don't have a props master, for instance. They don't have someone who takes care of props.

So I had a very important doll in that movie. I don't know if you guys saw it. And we had one doll. And it was like, you know, it's just, you know, we're sort of scrapping it together, like, as best we can. And we were not doing that on The Bride. We had great people. As an actor, as a great actor yourself,

how, I'm assuming that your knowledge of being an actor, affects the way in which you direct actors. And are you, do you find yourself directing every actor as if that actor is you? Or are you intuitive and you figure out a different way to direct different actors based on what you assume their needs are? You know? That's such an interesting question, actually. Thank you. When I started The Lost Daughter, I started with, I don't know,

eight days with Jesse Buckley. Pretty much, Jesse is the center of pretty much every scene. And I spoke to Jesse the way I would speak to myself. Like the way I sort of wished someone would speak to me, you know? And with Jesse, it just went in like water. And then I tried to talk to Olivia Coleman that way. And she was like, what the fuck are you talking about?

You know? She was like, what? And I really quickly, like, on the job, had to really realize, oh, right, no, of course. Like, I can't talk to my husband the way I talk to Jesse either. He's also like, fuck off, what? You know, so that was such a pleasure to me, actually. That was actually, I would say, one of my absolute favorite things about the last daughter was learning, oh, oh, what language is it with this person?

And then bringing that to the bride. I mean, like, how does Penelope Cruz want to be talked to versus an epistem? Benning. Like, Annette, I realized I would get so excited by what she was doing. I would come to her with like three notes on top of each other. And she just would not have it. She wanted one in a time. And made that very clear to me.

Whereas, like, you know, Jesse just wants to sort of take it all in and whatever sticks, and yeah, Peter just like, well. But that's a process that you learn as you go, right? Like it's something like you have to, like that first day, that first word, week you're it's the personalities and you're trying to figure out what that rhythm was like Jay

what you were kind of saying like how you have to it's not that you're tailoring it but it's you have to have a certain amount of EQ to be a really good director I think the really good ones have that understanding as you pointed out to go oh this person

you have to kind of read the room right a hundred percent I think you do tailor it to each person like and that interaction is one of my favorite things. And sometimes there's friction, too. Like, not, not, but it's only natural that there will be moments.

Yeah. We've all had them where somebody gives you a note or something, you go like, hey, you know, and you're just trying to, and then, and sometimes it's necessary. Or sometimes you need friction in order to do whatever it is you need to do, and the director just has to just deal with that. Like, I remember, I won't say who, just so that I'm, because I love him, but there was an actor who yelled at me on The Lost Daughter, and none of us had been yelling at each other. Like, we were just, it was all, we were all in love.

And I was sort of stunned for a second. And then I was like, oh, no, no, no, I've been him. I know, I get it. Okay, he just needs to, like, crack something a little bit. Just take it. Just take the smack and just keep going. That's your job. Like, a little taste of your own medicine.

Keep going. He's kind of just in character. And just trying to, like, break something. Like just make something alive happen. You know, that's interesting you say that because and it is when you're in such an extreme sort of creative environment and sometimes, as you say, sometimes that needs to happen. And I think that there are plenty of examples of people who are especially historically poorly behaved who are really terrible to people and stuff.

But there are, there also is an area where there has to be that sort of friction where people do and people will say like, oh, that's just Hollywood. People are badly behaved. Like, no, this is like a really intense creative environment that also you're dealing with where the currency is emotion and people and human beings. And there's going to be that. And sometimes that exists, right?

Yeah, yeah. I think acting, having done it, listen, I think directing is a harder job. No question. But I think there's something about acting that is so, so precious, like beyond what anyone's doing, so vulnerable, so special. You know, I really do. I just think, like, you know.

You're putting yourself out there to be judged over and over and over again. Well, I was listening to them talking about your play, a one man, play, man, I, that's hardcore. Yeah, so that's exhausting. Especially staring at Jason the whole time, evident. Yeah, exactly. I tried not to blank, Shawnee. I'm so sorry. And we will be right back.

And now back to the show. So when you talk about, like, part of the actor's sort of high wire act and vulnerability is showing kind of what your version of this character is. And oftentimes, this is for Tracy out there, oftentimes an actor will get a part through an audition process. And through that audition process, you basically show the director, Well, here's my version of the character. And if you want this version, go ahead and hire me.

And then when I show up on the set, you'll know exactly what's coming. When you're dealing with big stars like the kind Maggie has in this film, they're not auditioning. So the first time Maggie's getting to see their version of these characters is kind of through the rehearsal process, which is kind of like a week or two out and just kind of around a table reading.

But really mostly it's on set. And it's kind of too late to make changes. So my question, Maggie, is, especially since you've written this thing too, how do you rate your ability to be flexible, to be nimble to the inevitably different version of these characters than you've always imagined in your head? And how do you not assess like sort of a false negative

on that performance just simply because it's different than what you've imagined? Because the audience hasn't read the script. They don't have any preconceived notion. So they're going to take what they get. And the actor is kind of approaching their performance with that assumption. And they just hope the director slash writer will give the same level of freedom and acceptance to that version of the character. Did you find yourself comfortable with that?

Because that's hard. By the way, that's a really good question. The first 30 seconds of that was a great question. The last four minutes were insane. We'll trim it. I was actually riveted by everything. I was too. I was like, yeah, Jason, that is because I hate to admit.

It's a great question. I was like, yes, I always wanted to know that. Yeah. Well, this is like one of the reasons why I became a director, although we can talk about some of the other ones, but I think I've so often been the person who came to set with just a different take on something, not just to be contrarian or be different, but because it's me that's making it. And I'm different than what the director imagined when they were alone in their room. Right. And I have so many. times thought, don't you want my mind too?

Like, don't you want, like, my heart to? I don't want to be just a puppet. Like, yeah, isn't it going to be a better movie if, like, all of us actors and the DP and the designer, you know, all put ourselves into it? And then, yes, as the director, I mean, I would say this. I would say, yes, I feel very strongly that I'm trying not to push actors into doing something that I imagined when I was all by myself. and I don't do that

because it's just not my taste it's just not what I like from them, you know? Which means that they surprise me all the time. That said, I think it's my job if we're trying to walk a tightrope across the two hours of this movie, it's my job to both allow them sometimes, okay, look, we did a take

where the whole second half of that you were falling off the tightrope. I mean, I'm not going to say that to them, but I'm not going to use it, you know? And yet, like, what it did was it got us to the next take where there was a laser beam focus or whatever. You know, I mean, I think it's my job to then assess it and take care of it and really protect the things that are really special and beautiful.

I mean, I think you can watch a movie. You can, let me say this. I think there's lots of really good actors. And I think there's a handful of really brilliant ones. And like you guys said, a lot of them are. in my movie. And so how do you make space for those really brilliant actors

to not act like they're learning something or changing on film, but actually learn something or make a change on film? That's the most exciting thing for me to watch. I think that's a really great point that you bring up to this idea of like, of sort of walking that tightrope and maybe there's part of a take where they don't,

and you don't bring it up. it allows you to get to that other place. And I think that in that process, if you can allow, certainly for me, I know, if you can feel safe enough that there are no wrong answers and that it's okay to do that, then that's where you can really find that growth. You can really find that other gear by allowing us.

Because if you're worried that you're getting it, you're going to get it wrong or you're not doing it right. You're fucked. Because in the other gear, there aren't any wrong answers. Like when you get in. to that other gear. It's all good. What about,

how, dumb, dumb question, how did you think of doing this movie, the bride, where did the idea come from?

Why did you want to do it? And isn't it kind of cool that Frankenstein just came out and then the bride? I mean, it's so cool. Holy shit, you're right,

that was a dumb, dumb, question. You're so right. I just think that's so cool that that's all happening at the same time. Me too.

You must have been aware of that other movie. Guillermo's movie, yeah. And I, I, well, I'll answer the first part of the question first, which is I was at a party. I was thinking about what I wanted to do. You know, I was kind of knocking things around in my mind, just sort of more just thinking about what was on the edges of my mind. It's kind of hard to explain, I guess, but even with acting, I don't know if you guys relate to this at all.

But like the things that appeal to me are usually the things that are like right on the edge of what I've been thinking about. And then the making of the movie can be a way of kind of getting into some dangerous territory about what you don't know, you know. So I was thinking about, I don't know, what do I want to do next? And I saw this guy with a tattoo of the bride of Frankenstein on his entire forearm. You know, the Elsa, Lancaster, electricity hair. Yeah. And I was like, oh, yeah, wait, what is that? It's the bride of Frankenstein, but who is she, you know?

And I went back to my hotel. I was in L.A. at the time. And I looked her up online. And I was like, yeah, she's so, like... Badass. Yeah, so badass. Exactly. Then I watched the movie, which I had never seen. And she's in it for two minutes.

And she doesn't speak at all. And I started to think about this idea of the bride of Frankenstein. And, you know, well, then I went and read the book, which I had also never read. And Frankenstein is so lovely in the book. I mean, he does murder people and, you know, he's...

It's going to happen. It's very light. We all have a bad day. No, but there is an aspect of exactly that, where you read it and you're like, wait, I also feel lots of rage and violence sometimes. I don't murder people, but he's so huge. human. Like, he's so vulnerable. He's so lonely in the book. He's also super smart. He literally

hangs out in a barn next to some people speaking French and learns French in a couple days or, like, finds a suitcase of philosophy and, like, you know, reads it and then is into philosophy. He's really great guy. But he's so lonely. So I thought, okay, fine, a really lonely, like unbearably lonely, wonderful guy is trying to get another monster because no one else will be with him to be with him, wants someone to dig someone up from a grave and make someone like him.

In a way, it's fair enough. But what about her? You know, what about the person who was dead and didn't ask to be brought back to life? And maybe she didn't want to marry you. You know, maybe she doesn't get a lot of sense. in the matter. And I thought that puzzle, which is not addressed in the movie,

although Elsa Lancaster definitely wakes up and says, fuck no. I mean, she doesn't say that. But without saying anything, that's definitely what she communicates. I thought that's a great puzzle, like a dramatic puzzle to start from. And how does that... And then what if it's also an epic love story? What if despite this very difficult beginnings,

they can't resist each other? Yeah. Yeah. Really cool. Do you ever, do you ever, you were saying that you like to sort of write about things that, I don't know what you, you sort of said, not that scare you, but things that interest you you or things that might sort of push. On the edge.

On the edge of hope. Yeah. Are there ideas that you've had? I'm curious that you've thought about writing, but you're like nervous about writing about for certain reasons. Are there things you go like, I don't know if I want to touch that? I don't mean politically or anything, but just because emotionally or something. something that you, and you don't have to answer it if it's too personal.

No, I do write about those things. Like, that's the lost daughter and that's this. Like, I sort of do, like my daughter, my 19-year-old was joking with me because I was saying that this one was sort of dedicated in a way to my younger daughter and that the first one was dedicated to her. And she was like, oh, really? I get to have the one where I'm like, you know, the mom, like, is having such a hard time being a mother and she gets to have the bride.

But I think that I think that the way I get excited and want to sit down and write and work is when I think it's a little dangerous. Yeah. The stuff that really lives in your deepest parts. Yeah. The scary stuff. You've got to attack the scary stuff. Can fill the most pages with the stuff that is a part of your deepest parts, right? How bad.

And I remember actually in The Lost Daughter writing on an airplane because I used to write. on airplanes a lot because my kids were little. And so I would think and think and think. And then I was, I don't know, what I was doing, press for something. And I would just write everything I'd been thinking about it. And I was writing one scene and I, like, looked over my shoulder because I thought, oh, this is dangerous. And it was just a little thing where this woman was saying,

I hate talking to my kids on the phone. I both love talking to my kids on the phone. but when they were little, sometimes it was really hard. They just don't hit the ball back. To say that out loud or even write it out loud on an airplane, that was dangerous. It's dangerous now.

I feel scared. So your 19-year-old. Oh, you're going to get a lot of pushback, Maggie, on this. So your 19-year-old, does she have any interest in what you do? Or is there a completely different path? I don't think that she, at least at the moment, and she doesn't seem like she wants to be a filmmaker, although she makes the greatest, like, iPhone little videos

that she edits on the phone. Yeah. They're so funny. But she's been such a great sounding board for me artistically on the movie. Like, she's seen the movie so many times. She's been, she's such a great mind. That's great. So, wait, so New York, you're in New York right now?

Yeah. And New York or L.A., and forgive me, the rest of the family's in L.A. right? My brother's here and my mom is here actually but my dad is in L.A. Oh, I thought your mom was in L.A. too. She used to be.

She used to be okay. And you much prefer New York, yeah? Obviously, you live there. Yeah, I do. I do. I was just in L.A., though, and it was so nice in February, like eating avocados.

Yeah. Feeling the sun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Man, I was like, I get it, why they all do this. It is a whole, I mean, I've such a lust to live in New York. But as I'm getting older and crankier and more noise sensitive and everything else,

I do find my little alarm going off after. I was just there for four days seeing Shawnee. And it was like, yeah, just a little extra space in L.A. allows for, you know, cranky sensitivities to be taking care of a little bit more. I mean, my goodness. It's so compact there. But if you had your home here, you know what I mean? It would be different because you could.

I live in Brooklyn, so it's a little more outside of the craziness. But I think that's sometimes even about people who live in Manhattan. I go into Manhattan and I'm like, oh, my God, need to get out of here. But I think, oh, but if my apartment were in Manhattan, I could at least just get out of here. You know your spots and how you could sidestep. It's so funny. I feel, and I've been going, and I'm sort of in the process of

sort of halfway moving back to New York now, and so I'm there a lot, and I find myself, this is so weird, I sleep better when I'm in New York. I feel more at home there than I do here, even though I've lived here full time for just over 10 years, basically.

I don't know, there's something about New York. That's interesting, Willie. Yeah, my, my blood pressure settles on everything. I just feel more relaxed. What is that about? out? What, because the business is in LA, maybe? No, I mean, I don't think business is everywhere. It's not really anywhere anymore. Yeah, that's true. But I just feel like that's my, I don't know, my place. And it's,

yeah, I just feel better. And so many of our friends are moving back to New York now, too, which is. Maggie, where do you, what do you do outside of work that you're like, with you and the kids, do you go to, as Will says, the Long Island? Do you travel out there? Wait, is 19-year-old still around? Is she going to school? No, she's in college. She's in college. Not in New York.

Not in New York. No, she's... So I just have my 13-year-old here now. We have a house in Vermont. Oh, nice. Way deep, deep inside the grandfathered into the National Forest. I will be honest with you and say that. is really because of my husband.

The great. The great Peter Sardgard, yeah. For Tracy, yeah. I love Vermont, but that's really Peter's place. And I'm kind of always wanting to, you know, I'll go for a bit, but it's pretty hardcore. Isolating? It's very really in the middle of nowhere. We were stacking wood the other day, and Peter made me laugh.

He was like, do you think they? This is what our friends imagine we do when we come here. Yeah. Stacking wood. Yes. Wait, so you're out there. Are you chopping the wood and stacking it? I wasn't chopping it.

But he chops it. But he, like, raises bees and chickens and taps maple trees. Oh, my God. Has a beautiful garden. Jason would love to pay people to do that for him. I mean, the raising bees part, I would have to pay someone for. Watching them do it. Is Peter putting on the hood and everything with the bees?

Yeah. Although Peter sometimes is like, I don't need the hood. I don't even need the gloves. This guy. I listen to a, I read this book and he did, you know, and listen to this thing and watch these videos about how to like be zen and do it. So the bees that come to you. And then he gets like 10 stings on his arms, you know.

Wow. It's hot, though. What a stud this guy is. I'm such a good actor, and now you're telling me he's got this move, too? A beekeeper. You keep bees. Yeah, but I'll tell you this, just so you don't feel bad, all of his bees in Brooklyn died. And it was because he made a mistake.

He made a beekeeping mistake. And he was so upset about it. And I was like, Peter, he were in Switzerland acting. And then you went to another movie in London. Right away, you were home for one week and your bees died. like some people's only job is doing bees. You know, like, give yourself a break. So he was upset that his bees.

Were you, did you shirk your responsibilities in babysitting the bees? Yeah, I think I maybe did. I think you might, you've got to be able to shoulder some of that, right? The guys off in Switzerland. You know, you know she had something on a piece of paper. I'm saying, baby, all I need you to do, just water the bees for me. I picture you guys driving A little sticky

I picture you guys driving away Just going Oh shit the bees Let's just bring them Put them in the trunk Just bring them Like home alone Kevin and home alone

So wait I think I would go out of my mind If I lived in the middle Of Vermont like that Not that it's not beautiful And I appreciate it And I would like to go for a little bit Yeah because you're a city mouse

Yeah, I can't be alone with my thoughts too long. Oh, boy. Hang on, why? You need to write something about them. We got to do a celebrity version of Alone and just see how, I know. I mean, do you think you could make it a week on your own? Period, no. Do you don't have to finish a sentence?

So, well. Yes. If I knew it was a week, I could do it for a week. I think. It would be hard. No shelter, no food. Oh, shit. I mean, you just have 10 items, right?

For a week. I've only seen the last episode of Alone, which I watched last two days ago. Yeah. With Peter and my daughter, who were so into it. Peter could win. Peter could win. He'd start chopping wood day one. He'd start cultivating bees.

He'd be eating honey. But he wouldn't kill him. He probably wouldn't kill him. He might not kill a moose. But I watched those videos. This is what I'm. I watched so many of the videos of the guys time lapse of building shelters out of nothing.

Oh, I get those too. I get those two. I love... It's on your algorithm? Yes. Send me one so you can infect my stream. Do you also get like Eastern European grandmas making like huge vats of like stew?

I just did. I just started getting these videos of these Roma people in Eastern Europe and Romania and having these parties. And these guys are like arguing and then these women are making this insane food and they keep slapping each other's hands and then they have these huge feet. It's wild.

There's also people in China dying fabric. If you want to get in my algorithm, I've seen those too. Yes. I'm fascinated by that. I'm still getting the guys in fistfights on golf courses. I need to flush my stream. No, I get Karen videos. I get just non-stop caring videos.

I get tons of Karen videos and cop videos where they argue with the cops. Oh, yeah, about their rights First Amendment, right, guys? I'm just filming for who? I'm just exercising my right to film. Yeah, you're obviously asking for trouble. I'd love to see a mash-up with Steve Sands arguing for his rights on the sidewalk.

Wait, go back to a live for a second because I remember this one episode where a guy cut open a salmon or some fish and he's like, I'll just eat that fish eggs like caviar or whatever. And he took a whole hand. Do you know the episode I'm talking about? Took a whole hand and he washed them and everything.

and he got so viral, so sick. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, you can't just open a fish and eat their eggs. Jason does that before. Jason, three days before at a ward show, eats that just so. Yeah, got to drop the water weight somehow. Just a random fish. Yeah. There was this one where the guy opened up a fish and there was a little tiny

fish inside of it that had been digested. And he was like, bonus, you know? Look at that. Two for one. No way. I've got to go deep with alone. I've only seen one. Yeah.

We'll be right back. And back to the show. So if you're not in Vermont, if you're in the city and you're not working and you're not in post and you're not acting, but you're, what are you doing? What's the thing that you're doing

that is your like, not even guilty pleasure, your pleasure. How do you dumb it down? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so funny, though, I've been in post or shooting or prep for so long. Like, what have I been doing? I know you've got to something.

Even now, even now when you're in Post and Prep, where you have five minutes or Tim is to do something that's for you that you like to do that's like a little mini break. Even wordal counts. Oh, I love those. I love when they tell me I'm a genius, even if I cheat, you know?

Like, you go look at the, you're... How smart are you? Or like the news quiz. I don't have that one. How up-to-date are you with this week's news? You take one of those little quids? They have the history one of the New York Times, too, where you can, it gives you a bunch of events

and you have to place them on the timeline of when they occurred. Oh, that's cool. It's cool. It's good on that. It's really good. I want to do that. Maggie, do you do all the New York Times games?

Yes, when I was cutting. When I was cutting, I would basically be sitting behind my editor. For Tracy, you mean cutting the film? Yeah. I'm editing the film. Sitting behind my... One incredible editor you had. My incredible editor, Dylan Titchner.

Yeah, cut boogie nights and there will be blood. and Zero Dark 30. Amazing. And you had Larry Scher as a DP. I mean, God, damn. I love the way you said that, by the way. Just as you were talking about all the filmmakers on the film, which is the props and the DP.

And I don't think that people understand it maybe for Tracy, too, that making a film, everybody on, everybody who has these great jobs, you see the actors. But there are all these filmmakers there who are part of the process, who all have such important jobs, who are so valuable to the filmmaking. process. Well, and I just want to say, actually, because we were talking about the acting, and obviously I've been an actor, but what I haven't been is a cinematographer. And, you know,

I learned a lot about aspect ratio and lensing on The Lost Daughter, but the truth is, and now I am understanding who Tracy is, you know, on a little movie, you have no money. And so you can't afford even to rent a lot of different lenses. So in the Lost I thought or we maybe had five lenses, maybe. And so with those five lenses, I learned a lot. Then I go, as Jason Z were saying, to this totally different scope. And I have cranes, techno cranes, shooting for IMAX, which is a very particular thing, which is not just a movie that will play an IMAX, but a movie that's designed to change aspect ratio,

like to grow vertically for an IMAX audience. I didn't even know really what IMAX. was when I started. And Larry Cher, who's my cinematographer, I felt like I came in to this movie with a really clear idea of what I wanted to say and in a lot of ways also how I wanted to say it even visually. But I don't know, I felt like I took a masterclass with him.

And I do feel like I finished the movie speaking a language that I didn't speak when I started the movie, which is maybe part of what was terrible. Like, if you have to learn, if you're, if you know, like I was saying about actually even watching good acting, like you'd rather watch someone learn something for real on screen instead of fake like they're learning it, even if they fake it very well. I was actually learning as I was working, which was incredible, like so exhilarating, but also. And his, did you guys, did you guys jump on his shot deck is such an incredible asset for folks? You know, to like, you can do. he's cultivated all of these images from all these films that you, a quick reference point for you,

as you guys were devising the look of the film, did you guys spend some time on shot day? Well, like, if we, say we're saying, okay, there's big, you know, the movie has almost like a Bonnie and Clyde aspect of lovers on the run, you know, and there's a lot of stuff in a car, and we were talking about different ways of shooting in the car, and we were, for example, say,

talking about Thelman Louise, Ridley Scott, lots of long lenses, totally different way of shooting than we were shooting because they were actually in that location, shooting probably with an array of cameras, both far away on really long lenses and then close around the car, different than the way we did it. But I loved the aesthetic of that movie. I found I really loved, I really love long lensing.

My editor was joking with me that I should be a birdwatcher. And then what about designing just the overall world of it too With your production designer Karen Murphy What an incredible talent she is too Like was it how did you Did you did you did you start At a place because world building like It's like filling a blank page as a writer I would imagine

It can it can be anything And how did you where did you start What sort of aesthetic did you start in was it was there like a book or photography or something Or did she bring ideas or? The movie is set in 1936, which was somewhat random. Like I originally said it when I was writing just post-Civil War because so many people had died. This is a movie about people coming back from the dead. So I was kind of thinking about like when were the times when the veil between the living and the dead felt the thinnest.

So I was thinking about post-Civil War. So many people died. So many children died in childbirth. And there was this job then I had been learning about for something else of a spiritualist, which was almost always a woman. And it was like as ubiquitous as a therapist was someone who spoke to the dead for you. And so I started out setting it then because I thought that was kind of an interesting time to just be dealing with people brought back from the dead. And then I realized that Frankenstein, my Frank, I don't call him Frankenstein's monster.

because he would never call himself that, you know? So Frank was so lonely that maybe his only, like his primary relationship was with a movie star who didn't know about him, of course, but that he could go sit in a theater and watch this movie star. And also in a dark movie theater, his ugly face, you know, his scarred up face wouldn't be so, you know, scary to people. So then I thought, okay, I have to set it in a time when there are movies. and it shifted to 1936. Also because the movies then are so much about fantasy. And my movie is actually a lot about kind of breaking down the fantasy

and what does a real love affair look like? And what does a real man look like, woman look, what is the reality versus the fantasy? But still, 1936, which I think is beautiful. But it was never really 1936. It was always 1936 sort of by way of 1981 downtown New York. Really? By way of like right now.

So if that's the directive for Karen, you know, that's a tough one. It's something that you haven't seen before. Yeah, but that's cool, though. I love that idea. So it sort of blends, it blends today's aesthetic with 81's aesthetic with 1936. Yeah, kind of. I mean, it is technically 1936, but it's a different world. as you say world building,

which is actually something I'm really interested in. That term, which I had actually never heard before, before I went to work on this movie, which at least in my mind really refers to VFX, visual effects. And something usually completely non-existent, right? Like superhero stuff. Like Lord of the Rings or whatever. This isn't, you're saying.

There's some definite, tangible, relatable, recognizable elements. But, I mean, here's something I've been thinking a lot about. so few women have gotten a chance to get our hands on some of these tools. Yeah. Like shooting for IMAX with a changing aspect ratio, like world building. I mean, there are some, there are. But just not very many. And I somehow feel like the way that it's been done before

is in a language that doesn't totally resonate with me. So, you know, world building could mean we're shooting underneath like that, what would it be? The West Side Highway up in New York has like an overpass if you're up on 125th Street with beautiful, beautiful like arches. We shot there. But if you look to the right, in reality, there's like a big ad for whatever, something from now and the rest of the highway and all this modern stuff. So you can create whatever you want in the rest of that frame. And it was interesting because when we first started working on that frame, it was like a celebration of VFX.

It was like we were pan over to show the whole world and look what we did with our VFX. And that's just not, I don't like that. Right, right, right. I'm like, I just want to be in the movie. I want to be in the world. I don't need to show you how expensive the VFX were. You know, I want to, I have a different, I'm really interested in world building.

I'm really interested in that idea. I really think probably the next thing I do will incorporate that, some kind of imaginary world. That's great. I love that. But with all the things I've learned from this one. Sure. Isn't it kind of, I would say this earlier, isn't it kind of like designing a house like you

get like the architect and the interior designer and the project manager and the contractor? That's all I wanted to say. Next question. Or a party. Or a party. We used to think of it as a party. like a great dinner party, you know, where someone else is doing the flowers and the, you know,

and I just invite people and maybe seat them and that kind of thing. Yeah. Everybody's got a placard. Oh, sorry, Sean. Did you want to take a snack break? I'm sorry. Yeah, I got an apple slice. I mean, just sort of drop in a kind of a non-secutor and then just pop an apple in your mouth.

Right. What do you think the fuck do you think is going on to your man? I didn't think. We're taking up Maggie's time. We're taking up Maggie's time. You just wait five more minutes you could go get your snack on. Yeah. I didn't have anything else to follow up with.

So I thought it was safe to take an apple slice. I like that idea, though, Maggie, you said about, like, it's never spoken to you before and nobody's ever done in this way. And I do like that idea of like there's got to be sort of more to it than just flexing a sort of a muscle, which does seem to probably be in because it's been dominated. by men and maybe I'm wrong about that, but there's something cool about that,

like just bringing a new perspective to it, that it can be much deeper than that somehow. Do you know what I mean? Well, like, if you have a different... Again, I'm just being simplistic about it, but maybe... I don't mean to be overly simplistic about it either. I just, I do think if you have a different experience in the world, you're going to make different movies, you know?

Yeah. And obviously, gender isn't... Or race or ethnicity. I mean, those aren't the only things that change your... your experience, but they are one thing. And I guess I, well, well, when I actually started using IMAX and changing aspect ratios and doing it, so I learned about it. I also, my editor that we were just praising, who was just incredible, it was Dylan Titchener and Larry Cher, both were kind of in each ear really teaching me so much about those tools. But when I imagined it, what came out was different than how IMAX has been used before.

And I think that's cool. I think that's like, you know, I feel proud of that. Let me ask you this. Did the film turn out the way you had imagined and hoped that it would? Because there's so many people that contribute, it inevitably is going. And as you said, you provide this environment of, yes, please contribute, bring your uniqueness. So did it end up? And J.B.

But also, she has a front row seat to watching it evolve and change. Right. And the unapologetic position of controlling the way that it comes out to the extent that you can. And like, how much did you let yourself allow it to be the film it was kind of becoming? And like, so like what's the, I guess the question is, sorry for the long one again, but like, what's the percentage that it maintained the version that you thought and hoped that it would be?

Percentage in math is maybe like not my language. Come on, robot. Let me think. Let me think. The movie has a very specific tone. I could always hear the very unusual tone of the movie. in my head.

I could feel when we fell off the tightrope, for example, always I could. So that has remained. I think really when we were shooting, I was collecting all these beautiful things. I definitely had in some ways the movie in my head. Yeah. And I was sort of building something as we were shooting.

But the cutting, I would. say is where it really changed. Right. And I think in some ways I... It was really about letting things fall away. Letting the movie be what I had always wanted it to be, which was kind of like a roller coaster ride. Like, strap in and you can't get off until it's over.

Right. There's not... I wanted it to be like a laser beam. Like fast and hot. And just realizing, oh, this is weighing me down or I love this and what this brings out, but I got to let it go. And even my really wise, you know, collaborators like Dylan, letting me take the time I needed to know. I would say, don't fuck with that scene. No, I don't want to hear it.

I love that scene. Don't fuck with it. And then eventually letting me. letting it go. Because it wasn't, probably for a bunch of different reasons with different things you had to let go of, because ultimately it either was not as good as the rest

of the stuff that you had or that it was sort of not serving the laser beam. Yeah, no, I think I pretty much just took out in both my movies when I cut them, let's just take out everything that isn't really great. Like I just, you know, and most of the time I didn't stop shooting until we had something that was great, I think.

But let's just get rid of that stuff. Then the hard thing, obviously, is like getting rid of something that, or like for instance, the scene that I'm imagining, which is no longer in the movie, so it's hard to talk about it. But I felt it just deepened everything. It just took things down to like another level.

And, you know, Dylan's argument, and actually Dylan was not alone. And I remember hearing this great, note from someone about getting notes on a screenplay where she said if five people tell you you seem drunk, maybe you should lie down. You know, when you just keep getting the same note

over and over again, you have to go like, okay, okay. But in fact, Dylan's argument was it's too complicated now. It's made it too heavy. Like, let it lift off. And so maybe that's for another movie. Yeah, yeah. Save it. I love it this.

We've got a couple of years. on you. But I do love at this age, there's nothing better than constantly you're like, I find more and more that I'm learning stuff and I'm really enjoying learning stuff and also really sort of coming to peace with how little I do know

or how little what I thought I knew. And I find it so much more exciting now to go like Yeah, for sure. Well, yeah, you get smart enough to realize how not bright you might be. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And how great feels when someone else is able to guide you in something. It feels so good.

Every day in my life, I'm like, I don't know what that word means. What is you, what are you talking about? I don't know where I'm going. Yeah, dictionary.com is on the front page of my iPhone. Is it really? Oh, I hit it a few times a week, for sure. I love that. Wait, Maggie, what are you doing for the rest of the day?

Yeah. Tell them you're busy. Tell them you're busy. Tell them you're busy. I'm so busy. I'm so busy. I'm just around the corner. Dangerous close to you. We could get like a, we could get a cupcake, whatever. you want to get. I want to go see Wuthering Heights.

Oh, yeah. I'll see it tomorrow. I can't wait. Yeah, I'm really curious. I can't wait to see your movie. I know, I can't wait. March 6, it may be already out. We don't know how this works,

but we are really excited to see the bride. Maggie, such a treat to have you on it. And then I want to see the next one and the next one and the next one and the next one. Keep jamming. Yeah, you're just doing it. It looks so good. Amazing stuff. Thanks, good.

Say hi to Peter. Say hi to Jake, please. I will. This was such a nice talk. Thank you, Maggie. Yeah, thank you for doing that. Great to see you. I'll see around town, Maggie.

Uh-oh. Sean, we are. I'm going to come see your play. Let's play. Let's play. Let's play. Thank you. Bye.

Bye, Maggie. Bye, guys. Bye. Thanks, Maggie. Bye. Bye. Oh, that's very exciting. It is.

Great, great guests there, Willie. I'm so excited to see her film. And truly, all the rest that she's going to do, she seems to just really happy. I know. I mean, just so. good in everything. What a massive acting career. I know. You're like, what?

Sorry, what'd you say, Sean? Sorry. Why couldn't you take it? You were the one who's about to say something and you had the control to wait on taking the bite. You could have not put it in. It must be good. What is it? It's just an apple. It's just an apple. He just discovered fruit. He's just discovered. So I do want to give up. It keeps that darn scurvy away. I know. I mean, she's been in so.

many good movies as an actor. She's had this huge acting career. Yeah. She does this turn and this movie looks massive. She writes the Lost Daughter, nominated for an Academy Award for The Lost Daughter. Yeah. And this movie looks huge. Has worked with all these great directors.

Think about all the ones that she's been able to learn from, to cherry pick from, too. I know. We got to send her our head shots. I know. Yeah. I did a scene with her in a movie and a low-budget movie years ago, 20 years ago. And she hasn't called you yet.

She didn't bring it up. No. I didn't want to bring it up either. see together. She's such a talent. I'm so excited for The Bride, and I'm so excited for you guys. Oh, yeah.

Well, I feel like you guys have a bright future. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having us today. It's been so much fun to have some fans on. Have you had any questions you forgot to ask us. You've got our email.

Yeah. You can do follow-ups. We'll do a follow-up and let you guys have a listen before we put it out. Oh, great. There's a couple of things I'm a little nervous about that I'd love to get another listen to. Sure. So. Of course.

Yeah. But you know what? Even if you say something wrong, I think that people are willing to let by God be beautiful. Oh, incredible. Cue the music, boom. Smartless. Smartless is 100% organic. and artisanly handcrafted by Michael Grant Terry, Rob Armjarv, and Bennett Barbico.

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