SmartLess - "Marc Maron"

Episode Date: August 4, 2025

Zip your hair on, it’s Marc Maron. The dark side of luxury problems, exciting medical stories, and the gift of yet another microphone. Get duct taped into position, it’s an all-new SmartLess. Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of SmartLess ad-free and a whole week early. Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus.

I got a good dad joke for the day. You're going to start us with a dad joke today instead of ending with a dad joke? Yeah, just for the cold open. This is the beginning? This is okay? No? All right. Format switch here, listener.

Let's hear it. How much room is needed for fungi to grow? Boy, you tell me. As much room as possible. Oh, welcome to Smart Lens. Smart Lens. Smart Lens. Smart Lens.

Yeah, Sean, you have any opening bits? I do. I do have something to share. What happened today? Consult your sheet. I have no sheets. Really? I have no sheets. You give no sheet?

I give no sheet. I don't give no sheet. But first of all, Jason, you are, well I can't wait for you to come visit, but you are so lucky, Jason. Today in London and tomorrow, it's like. The hottest. No exaggeration, like 100 degrees. Right, and then the day I get there.

And then they get there, it's 72. I literally just looked at that on the way to this little podcast. You're so lucky. It's brutal. Now how many days are you spending over there with Sean in London? Sean? Just three. Just three. I love that Jason doesn't even know. I know. Now how many days are you spending over there with Sean in London?

Just three. Just three. I love that Jason doesn't even know. I know. I go where I'm fucking told. In fact, I'm waiting for my wife to help give me notes on packing. Does she make you a list of what you should pack? She tries, but her big move always is to just kind of walk up behind me while I'm starting to pack and say pleasantly,

hey, would you like some help? And I say, no, no, I'm set, thank you, I got it. And then she'll just stand there and she'll watch me. I say, I don't need any help. No, no, I know, I'm just changing. And then she'll just start to like lob, quote, suggestions. And so she ends up packing and controlling. What is she worried about do you think?

Is she worried that you're not going to be have the right thing for the right sit? I don't think she's ever worried about anything. I think I think just her happy place is having just kind of like a nosey hand on on on all sorry hand on things. So yeah, you both know this better than I do. She talks about you more than she talks to me. That's true. That's true.

This is true. I actually know more about your trip than you do. Yes. Tell me, when am I leaving? I don't know, I knew you're leaving tomorrow. Tomorrow night, yeah, tomorrow night. Tomorrow night, yeah. How do you feel about it, Jason? Do you get excited about traveling?

No, I can't stand it. I don't understand the concept of leaving the nest that you have deliberately created with all your favorite things to the extent you can get them right around you and in the right spot. I'm super excited to see you too. I just don't, no, I mean, but the concept of leaving a place that you're comfortable to go to a place that's completely foreign to you,

I get the whole cultural reach. And expose yourself to other things. But yeah. I mean there's tons of stuff to do here. No, there's tons of stuff to do in London, but not in this house where you just mix. This is what makes you, this is kind of should feed your brain

and feed your soul and go to different places and see different things from, that's, look I don't want to get into, but it's kind of the problem with America a little bit. Listen, East Hampton, tell us about what fucking. I go to Sag Harbor, I was there this morning. Can I, were you really? Yeah, I rode my bike to the hardware store.

I fixed my bike. Wait, you rode your bike from East Hampton to Sag Harbor? No, I did not, I didn't do that. It was too hot. That sounds so wrong though. I felt very chore-y today, like I rode my bike into town, I talked to some police officers, said hi to them, they were dealing with an issue,

apparently there was a dog issue. I'm not kidding. Was the dog stuck in a tree? No, like somebody complaining that somebody else had left their dog outside, but it was in a sunny area and was mad and called the East Hampton police. And then had an argument. There's not proper shade for this animal.

Yeah, and these cops were so diplomatic about it, because they're just like, what are we dealing, what are we talking about? Do you know what I mean? So they were nice about it. What would that be like getting, no shade, pun intended, being thrown on Hampton cops, but when you decide you want to be a police officer,

what is that, you say, well, I want to be a police officer in the Hamptons because you love the town or because you just don't want the heat, you don't want the nonsense, you don't want a lot of crime. I think a lot of them grow, a lot of the officers I've talked to are local, I grew up here.

And I got to say, honestly, to a person, every one of them that I've ever talked to and met has been super, super nice. That's not shocking. Yeah, yeah, they've been really, really nice. Yeah, and that's kind of the consensus. They're super responsive. And imagine the personalities they have to deal with out here.

Just imagine. Well, yeah, and they're trying to nab those little girls running lemonade stands that are skimming, right? They've got a watch out for them. What's their beat? Skimming. Their beat is, they do everything.

You know, they deal with a lot of, unfortunately, there are a lot of issues that happen here. People come on vacation here, so a lot of people feel like no rules, a lot of people drink and drive, which is a terrible thing. It's my worst, honestly, not to get too dark, but the thing I like, the sound I like the least is the sound of obviously an ambulance at night. And you'll hear it late at night, because especially if it was summer way down the, you know, way at the end of the island,

and that you know that there's been some terrible accident, you read about it in the local paper the next day, and it's just absolutely heartbreaking. It's absolutely heartbreaking. It breaks my heart. It's such a small town. Everybody knows everything. Yeah. But also just like, you know, because people feel like, oh, well, I'm just going to have four glasses of wine and get behind the wheel of my fucking rolls or whatever.

You know, it's sad. It's really, really sad. But also, yeah. Has there been festivities for the Big Jaws anniversary out there, isn't that where they supposedly shot the film? No, that was Martha's Vineyard though. Well, that's close though, right? Oh, right, right, right. But I did see a couple days ago a whale breach about 100 yards off the beach.

It was unbelievable. Wait, does that mean jump up and slam down to a belly flop? Yeah, like a massive, like just, like just. Are you sure that wasn't a fill in the blank joke here? What fat person you wanna take a run at, Sean? Yeah, I mean who? Go ahead, you can fill in the blank. God bless, no.

Oh, God. But I did have something that happened today. Sean, you talk about breaching every time you have sloppy joke, don't you? You're always like, when you're making a run for it. I sure do. We got a breach! Wait, but I do have a really quick medical thing.

Or do you want me to wait till later? No, give us some of your coffee chat stuff. So, so today, because I'm not feeling well, and so I woke with a sore throat whenever, but so I went to the doctor. Maybe there's something wrong with your CPAP. No, I didn't bring it. What? I didn't bring my CPAP.

What? Truly? Truly. Wait, I understand, hold on a second. Don't you need? Because I'm going to sleep on my side or I sleep up now. I don't want to, I can't deal with it. And what do you do, just get like duct taped into position?

Like. Hey, but wait, I've seen a commercial for a guy, he's in a CPAP. Let's lock him up. It's downtime. There's a guy that's in a circle, like a support group for CPAP dudes, and they're all wearing different flavors of CPAPs,

and they come to him, and he's just got a clicker. He's got a clicker. What are you talking about? Is yours flavored? He's just got a clicker in his hand got a clapper. What are you talking about? Is yours flavored? He's just got a clicker in his hand and he doesn't have to wear the hose. And so what is that? Have you looked into that?

No, I'm not, I have no idea what you just said. Dude, dude looks pretty great and you can avoid the duct tape. Anyway, well whatever. I like the idea of showing that you have it flavored like a watermelon flavor, you know what I mean? Just like a little mist. Well that would be, yeah, that would make it better. Anyway, so. You can hear how low my voice is. So you're sick, you know what I mean? Just like a little bit. Well that would be, yeah, that would make it better.

Anyway, so. So you can hear all of my voices. So you're sick, you know? So I go to this doctor at this place and that was recommended, she was fantastic. And so I go in and I'm never, it must be an English thing. I go in and she's like, okay, take your clothes off. And Scotty's sitting there with me.

And I was like, sorry? And she goes, well I gotta check, I gotta check you out. And I was like. Wait, sorry, this is. You want me to just take my shirt off? This is for C-papping? No, this is just, I gotta check you out. And I was like, you want me to just take my shirt off? This is for CPAPing? No, this is just, I have a sore throat. A sore throat?

Yeah, she just wants to check me out. You have a sore throat after one night you go to the doctor? Well, because they're going to go in the other way to make sure that it's not the death of God. They've got to make sure both ends are. Does this person have an office or is it something with wheels? This is in the park?

Sorry, one more time. Carry on. It's next to the ice cream truck. So I go in there and she needed to check me out because I'm a new patient in England, right? And she was like, so I go in there, she asked me to take, I go, you want me to take my shirt off? She's like, yeah. And I go, my pants too. She goes, yeah. So I was like, this I go in there, she asked me, I go, you want me to take my shirt off? She's like, yeah, and I go, my pants too?

She goes, yeah. So I was like, this is so weird. And so I lay down flat. Luckily it's just a drawstring at all times. So I keep going. So I lay down and she's, you know, she's at the tap on the thing and the tap on the chest and everything, she's checking my thing.

And then she's- She's fully clothed right now, right? She's totally fully clothed. She lifts up my underwear and just goes I'm just need to check out testicles She grabs my my balls and I was under your underwear. She doesn't yes She grabs them with her bare hands and I was like Wow what was she able to see through the dust? Did she snap a glove on at least I Don't remember. I think sure you went into a blackout. Yeah, I did. I couldn't believe

it. I couldn't believe it. So what was the prognosis? No, I'm fine. I'm just not in that. Oh, Scotty heartbroken. I'm straight. Yeah. The prognosis. So just a sore throat. You'll be fine. Yeah, I'm on antibiotics now. I mean. Wow. Okay. What, did you have to feel my balls? Good story.

Anyway, go ahead. Um. I just thought that was really odd, like I've never had a doctor do that. Hey, Jay, listen, you got something to look forward to tomorrow night. You're gonna get a sore throat when you get to London. I'll be doctor, I'll play the doctor.

Yeah, did you get? Oh, you know the drill now, so don't be surprised. Did you get like a bulk visit type of thing? Is there a punch card that I can use one of those? You know, where you're free visits? Yeah, I'm gradually going to Maro again. All right. Guys, today our guest.

Oh, it's Chase's guest. Yes, sir. Today our guest is an actor, a comedian, a radio host, and a pioneer in podcasting. In fact, without him, we wouldn't be here. Having released over 1,600 episodes, 600 million downloads during a 16-year run, he has decided to put it to rest

to move it onto the next. WTF, WTF. Here to tell us how he did it and hopefully how we can suck a little bit less is the goat himself. Mr. Will? Mark Marin. Mark Marin. Please, Mark, reveal yourself. Oh, man!

So we didn't need to send you a microphone, is that right? When you said we wouldn't be here without, I was immediately, I was like, it's Mark Marin. Yeah, it's not Dax Shepard, although we appreciate. You mean Dax Shepard Marin? Yeah. Wait, you're the dad? We found him. On some level I'm the dad, yeah.

Yeah, you are the dad. And the goat. Yes, yeah. This is awesome. This is real awesome. I'm using my own microphone, but thank you for sending me the one I'll never use. I appreciate that.

Did we really send you one? Yeah, they sent me one. They were panicked, I guess. They were like, no, no, no. Mark doesn't seem to know what he's doing. Well, they heard you were done with your podcast, they sent yeah, so they said one of these of all Rob turn your mics on what are you doing? Mark Merritt, we were given misinformation. It's like sending a hockey stick to Wayne Gretzky like what are you doing?

When I got it, I was like are you fucking kidding me? What am I gonna? You know it is it's our start gift. I appreciate it. We used to send them out during COVID, but we weren't as generous. We put them in a self, you know, you could send it back to us when you were done using it. Sure, well, we're just silly over here.

Well, it's been great. I was listening to the opening. It's, you know, exploring the dark side of luxury problems. Oh, yeah. Super relatable. That's what we are. We try to stay as unrelatable as possible and I think we're doing swimmingly.

Exciting medical story. I enjoyed that. Yeah. It reminded me of like when I was coming up with this comic, you always had to do morning radio and you'd be sitting there waiting for a break before you'd go in with this morning crew Just figuring out a way in you know hearing what they're talking about. Yeah, and just panicking like I got a story on that I'm gonna start with that

That is the thing that I worry about with this with this silly thing Whatever we're fucking doing is that it's good But is it like it's like morning zoo or whatever like whack even when we get into the questions and the stuff like I don't want to be like a guy who's like obnoxious and always just waiting to let you know that I can make fun of that ship is sailing sorry buddy it's supposed to be a conversation no no morning but zoo I think that's what you know the medium has sort of birthed you know know, just a hundred thousand mediocre afternoon drive time radio hosts.

I mean, anytime I scroll on my phone on Instagram Reels, it's like three or four white guys talking about the last time they shit their pants as adults. That's us. I listen to that. I listen to that. Mark, talk to us. It's so true.

I know. It's so true. In fact, I think I've told that story, baby. It's either on yours or on Dax's. But wait, talk to us. That's so true. I know. In fact, I think I've told that story maybe either on yours or on Dax's. But wait, talk to us about that. Like, can you reflect? And we'll probably ask you a few times during this about that. Like, what you started is obviously it's an enormous business and path to employment for a lot of folks nowadays. So we collectively can thank you for that.

But how do you feel that it's, are you proud of this sort of industry that you've kind of created? Or is there blood on your hands? Yeah, I don't think, well you know, once you create the bomb, you kind of wash your hands of it. You're Oppenheimer, man, you're Robert Oppenheimer. You know what I mean? But it's morphed away from something that was really

this one hour conversation or longer. I mean, obviously, Rogan still does that, Dax does it. Oh, they do like three hours, Jesus. I don't know who's watching that shit. It's hard to do that really well. Well, I don't think that there was a single way to do this. The only thing that I know in terms of starting it the way I did, I did it specifically,

the only way really I knew how and the way that my emotions guided me to do it. And when we started it, there was no real podcast medium. There was a few of them around. It had been around a while. And the way I did it, the way it evolved was just my style and kind of this idea of candid, authentic, vulnerable interviews.

I think it created a zone through which some people could do that. But I mean, it got more interesting when people were doing full-scale radio shows or crime shows or multi-mic'd guys. It was never, there was never a format other than a mic. full-scale radio shows or crime shows or multi-mic'd guys. There was never a format other than a mic. So because I did it the way I did it, even when you guys, or at least two of you,

sorry Sean, I'm sorry. Just pile on. But when people were coming to my house, it was like, where am I, what neighborhood is this, what are we doing, is there a camera? And it was really, there was nothing binding me to any sort of style or context. But I think because of the reason my timing was good,

cosmically, for once in my life, that it took off. So this was one way to do it. And I think if anything, my particular way of doing it made a lot of people think, you know, like if that idiot can do it, you know, I'm getting mics. So, there was that. But also, you have to, well, first of all, you brought up,

I mean, you're a comic, and you've been a comic for a long time, and you've been doing it, you know, at the highest level for a long time. So, you know what you're doing. You're a funny dude, and you have to be able to move it along. We're lucky it took three of us to do what you did by yourself.

Yeah, exactly. You know? I guess, but the one thing that I was excited about was I wasn't beholden to that. You know, I'd done some time on radio and once I learned how to talk on a mic by myself for long periods of time, that was a pretty big breakthrough. So that kind of served me in the podcast realm.

But a lot of my monologues are not really funny. They're pretty honest and they're pretty visceral and they are directly related to my life and it gets deeper and sometimes in others, but I wasn't beholden to comedy. So what for me, what it really became was engaging with a person without a real plan to see if we could get a conversation going

and figure out where we met in terms of our issues, our problems, our lives and whatnot. So what I was really sort of hoping for was connection. And that's really what I think made what I do kind of different. That there is no sense of. But you did so many firsts. I remember a couple of things that stick out that I remember.

I remember hearing before I listened to hearing that you got Obama on was really huge. I remember everybody was freaking out about like, that was the first time somebody had done something like that gotten a president to come on the thing. And then you did the live shows too, of which I did one of them actually in Brooklyn at the bell as well.

And in addition to the going to your house and that was like, I was like, I remember you getting the call saying like, Mark's doing this thing at the bell is live in the pie. I was like, what could that getting the call saying like, Mark's doing this thing at the Bell and it's live in the pie, I was like, what could that be? Well, it was different. Yeah, it was different, it was cool. I was like, oh, okay. But the reason for that really was,

Obama was later, but the live ones, there was no way to make money doing this at the beginning. There was literally no way. I mean, advertisers weren't forthcoming. We were using kind of old terrestrial radio middlemen to get like sex toy ads and audible. Yeah, our first ads were like Adam and Eve. You know, you'd get a free package of God knows what.

We had this other advertiser from an older show we did, Just Coffee, but there was no way to generate income. And unless you wanted to sort of do a, you know, pay to listen kind of thing, but then you wouldn't build an audience. So the live shows were things we did separately and we created a different website so people would pay for them.

There's no way to make money. So the live shows were kind of an income generating thing. I mean, at the beginning of this thing, in my old house, we were just doing a tiered donation thing. This was before, you know, WhatsApp platform where everyone, you know, WhatsApp platform where everyone, you know, you get paid on. GoFundMe or something?

Yeah, it was not GoFundMe, the other one where you have a site where people can pay, whatever. Everyone has it. Patreon, OnlyFans? Yeah, Patreon. So there was no Patreon. So at the beginning, we just offered tiered donations and you gave a certain amount of money,

I'd send you a T-shirt and some stickers and my house was filled with a thousand envelopes, you know, stuff and T-shirts, because there's no way to make money. So the life ones were gone. I remember your assistant there working at a table just fucking stuffing envelopes. Yeah, yeah, that's right.

That's right. It was crazy. But the Obama thing, that was a whole other thing. But I think in terms of the medium, that kind of put it on the map. It kind of validated. And how did that come about? Yeah, validated, legitimized it.

And that was a result of your numbers being such that his team took notice of you and suggested, recommended to him that this might be a good spot for him to hit? I don't know if it was numbers per se, as much as it was profile, and I think that really it came down to then that there was a fan in the OVO office.

I mean, an intern, I don't know who it was. Got it, right. But they thought it would be good. It was his last year, second term. Yeah. He didn't want to be a lame duck, I don't think, and he thought it would be, or someone in his world thought it would be a good look to

to kind of do this and I remember when my producer Brendan McDonald was like Obama wants to come on and I'm like so what I'm going to I'm going to the White House and he said no He's coming to Highland Park. I'm like that's fucking crazy Walk us through that product I always wanted to know that like this because we had the opportunity of doing it with Biden. But what was that like, but we went to him and we went through all the protocols and stuff. What was that like, them coming to your neighborhood,

to your house with the president? Completely unsecured. It was crazy. Well, at first, I had a trip planned and I rarely take vacations, so I told my producer, I'm like, I don't know, I'm supposed to go to Hawaii. He goes, no, you're not going anywhere. So, well, the thing was, the first things we had to think

about was the way we do the show, which is not a political show. I mean, I can do that, but we had, both of us had come out of Air America, and from the beginning of the podcast, we were like, we're not doing a political show because I don't want to carry that water. You can't really do politics with your own voice

because you'll eventually end up just carrying whatever load it is of talking points for whatever party you're affiliated with. But the thing was is we got to make it a personal interview. He did go to college down the street at least for a couple of years. He knows the neighborhood. And we had to really structure it more than we do that.

Wait, which college did he go to around Highland Park? Yeah, at Occidental. Oh, right. So, you know, we had a school. Oh, so not on purpose. No, we had to structure it in a way. That was for Sean, that was for Sean. Occidental. Sean loves that.

Sorry, sorry Mark. Low hanging fruit is still fruit for me, I'm so sorry. Okay. Throw the baby some candy every once in a while. We'll be right back. And now back to the show. So they what, they come two weeks before and they strip search you every hour?

Well here's what happens, so I end up going to Hawaii and reading his book and in the meantime, Brendan, who is in Brooklyn generally, flew out to meet the Secret Service to create a perimeter. And so you get all these Secret Service guys at the house and apparently, Brendan was in the garage and he had a couple of guys on the roof jumping on it to figure out whether they could post guys up there.

And Brendan was like, no, no, it's coming down. So I had to ask my retired neighbor if we could put snipers on his roof, and it was like the greatest thing that ever happened to him. He was thrilled to be involved. But the sort of the day of, the one thing that was scary is they put some sort of weird humming black box in the one spare bedroom.

That was a small house, if you remember. It was like less than a thousand square feet with one toilet. I remember the black box too. Guys, remember when we tried to put our coffee on it? I don't remember. And they said don't touch that thing. Why, why, what is it?

Ken and Rob remember. When we were at the- What is it? What it is, it's like if all communications break down, that thing has a line into some sort of, you know, a secret satellite network, right. Oh, I see, wow. So they gotta put that in, and that was kind of the most menacing thing.

And I remember like the day of, wow, so the day of there was like at least 15, Secret Service people and then we'd set up tables on the deck there. My biggest fear was that that house had one toilet and I'm like, where's he gonna go to the bath? What if someone needs to go to the bathroom? I gotta clean the bath, whatever.

So we set up a table with listening stations for the White House people, for Brendan, for whoever else needed them. So there was like four or five sets of headphones out there. And the amazing thing about Obama, that there was no pre-interview. We didn't have to get any approval of any questions. He was completely confident and lucid.

And he knew what he was getting into. But the funny thing was, is that the Secret Service is coming in with the dogs, and I got these cats, and I'm like, hey, is there any way he can skip the house? I got cats, I'm gonna put them in the bedroom, but you trust me enough to leave the cats in the bedroom? Now, well, they said yes, and they let me off the hook,

but I don't know if that's gonna get them in trouble, but I think they're probably out of the game anyways. But anyway, so we're waiting now. We're all in a waiting position. My producer, he wore a sports jacket. He's very proper. Good for him. Yeah, and all the secret services there,

and I'm waiting on outside. And I say, how are we gonna know they're coming? And we'll give you a heads up when he's 20 minutes out. So what he was doing, he was flying from Beverly Hills in the Air Force Two or whatever, the helicopter, to the Rose Bowl to park there, which is about 10 minutes from my house. So they're like, well, that's better than, you know,

stopping traffic in the entire fucking city of LA. So they said- To go to Mark's garage. Yeah, yeah, exactly. They cleared the street of all cars. Some neighbors were pissed a couple. Sure. The Republicans were pissed, but the rational people

were like, this is great. They're gonna line the streets. So they said 20 minutes out, we'll tell you. But then all of a sudden we see the helicopters, two Ospreys that kind of fly in front of the helicopter. And we could see him in the sky. I'm like, all right, well, he's close. I'm just waiting at the gate and the motorcade pulls up

and there's this flurry of people coming up my driveway. I don't even see Obama. And then I see him and he's in the middle of this crowd. He waves like, Mark, and I'm like, Mr. President. He walks up and he's like, are we gonna have a good time? I'm like, I don't know. But then we go into the garage, they only had one Secret Service guy at the door behind me.

They had some sort of flak mat. That was another weird item that they actually left and I had to get back to them. That kind of like, if there's an attack or something, it kind of pops up and protects him. But it was all, it was intense. And I just tried to, we had to cover some politics upfront because there were things unfolding. But then it was a fairly standard WTF interview.

And the funniest part about it was when he sat down, I said, so you're nervous? And he said something like, if I was nervous about this, we'd all be in trouble. Yeah. He was pretty forthcoming though, yeah? Yeah. Yeah, forthcoming enough.

He's a genuine person. What he was was very disarming and very candid seeming and willing and thoughtful. But what's interesting is that it was better to do a personal interview with him because he is kind of wonky. And if you get into politics, it can get a little long. And we only had an hour.

So we were able to kind of do it. And then for some reason he chose, I'm sure very deliberately to say the N word on my show. And that- Really? And that, yeah. In relation to, he was like, racism isn't over just because he can't say the N word and he said it.

So that got, you know, a flurry of international news. So I had to deal with, you know, news crews in front of my house. But my- Yeah, there aren't enough T-shirts and stickers to handle that. Yeah. No.

But my producer was very calculating in terms of the press we did. He's a very smart guy. We, you know, we didn't engage with any of them. We just did, we did Chris Hayes and we did Terry Gross and that was it. And I don't hear from Obama at all. He's got my number, but I feel weird texting him.

But you know, I mean, look, the fact that you, A, were able to book him says a lot about the spirit and the content of your show. But your ability to get him to do a personal interview and to get him to be forthcoming really speaks to sort of I think what makes you so great at what you do. And are you comfortable trying to maybe kind of speak to that and maybe dissect that a little bit? Because you know, this one hour conversation, hour conversation, there needed to be at some point a confidence from you

about me just freestyling and then having somebody sit down and me just kind of pop back and forth with them and have a conversation as opposed to being an investigative journalist needs to be compelling and I need to assume that that's gonna be entertaining. What made you think that your hot takes on things and your personal kind of, the way in which you can drive a conversation

would be something really compelling? Because it is. And you are. Yeah, what gave you the right to think you could do this, Mark? But like, when did that happen for you? Just because I know you've spoken in the past about whatever the right words would be about

your degrees of social comfort and what fuels your standup and your cynicism and stuff, which I share with you. Like a lot of that doesn't lend itself to being a conversationalist. Do you know what I mean? Well, I think how it evolved is that I am innately and almost immediately codependent with any personality that sits in front of me.

So it's just by virtue of my upbringing, I don't know what. But there was a, the way it sort of started, and this is one of the reasons why we're winding it down, is that I'm kind of all in no matter what I do. My standup is provocative and personal, and sometimes a little cringy, and just my basic demeanor in terms of what I wanna talk about and what I feel comfortable talking about,

and my need to connect with people is sort of ingrained in me, and I'm willing to volunteer a lot of myself. And I think that the conversations that, in the beginning, I was literally having comedians over to apologize to them. So I, you know, for being a dick or whatever I thought my issues were or whether they were mad at me.

So the style unfolded with me trying to get resolution and make amends and this and that. And also I think the way I characterize it is generally the first 100 episodes were me having celebrities over to talk about my problems. So, and that became a way, you know, it's very disarming when you offer yourself. When you pull your pants down,

it's everybody feels kind of safe and like, okay, so I guess we're gonna be honest. I love that. Yeah. Oh, when you pull your pants down, it's everybody feels kind of safe and like, okay, so I guess we're gonna be honest. I love that. Yeah. Oh, when you pull your pants down, everybody feels safe. Yeah. Yeah. And confident, yeah.

But so that's how it sort of evolved and it's a need for me because I don't, like my preparation is just getting a broad view of who people are, what they've done. And it's evolved over time in terms of how I handle certain interviews. If somebody has an amazing, if it's an older person with a large bulk of work,

I'll forego the really personal stuff to really talk about the work, but it all gets mixed in. Well, let me ask you, has it changed the way you, I'll ask all of you guys, and I don't know if I have an answer. You can say all y'all. All y'all.

Has it changed, I'll speak for myself first. I think that doing this over the last five years, which is just kind of odd to me. Right, but think about that. We've only done 300 episodes. He's done 1600. No, I know, I know. It's amazing. It's amazing. odd to me. Right, but think about that. We've only done 300 episodes. He's done 1600. No, I know, I know. It's amazing.

It's amazing. But for sure. So, but for us, for the last five years, certainly for me, I can only speak for myself, that it has changed a little bit the way that I talk to people. I don't just mean people out in the world, like, hey, I'm a fan.

I mean just like people in general. It has, this has shaped a little bit how I interact with people, to a certain degree. It's not the driving, but it has become a big part of who I am now having these conversations and talking in this way, for whatever reason, for better or for worse. Well, it's interesting because you guys are all actors

and part of that craft from what I understand, about 90% of it is being present and listening. So whether you were used to doing that in your real life or not, who knows, but I mean, it is a tool that you all have to be present and listen. That's applicable to this. Yeah, and it's a real thing that you know

because we're all kind of self-centered guys and you know you kind of you want to get your word in you want to you know you're kind of half listening but once you start to engage your your empathy and your ability to shut the fuck up you find that you it is the foundation of connection yeah yeah and and I think that does change I think that I'm a- I'm so afraid to talk now. Keep going. No, you go.

No, no. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. No, you go. But for me, it took a lot to do that. And some people still are sort of like, why don't you let the guests talk? And I'm like, because it's my show. So-

Yeah. Exactly. And also, over years, you kind of, you know when someone's going into a public narrative. And some of those are deeper than you can imagine. There's ways that public people talk that, there's sometimes I know like,

well, I know this story has been told, God knows how many times, but maybe my listeners, I haven't heard it, but if it's something that I'm like, well, he's, or she's kind of autopiloting here, I'll interrupt until I can get them off of that and get them into some other place. Did you ever get that thing? Well, first of all, did you ever read comments

when you put stuff out on social, like to promote the show? I try not to, you know, but you know, it's kind of addicting. I don't check the numbers. I don't know what the, when Twitter was a viable thing, I would look at those and that would be upsetting. And it took me years to learn not to engage.

I have an email. I used to follow you on Twitter and you would sometimes engage and I would see the stuff that you would say. It's a nightmare. Yeah, it's a nightmare. But would it change, would it alter the way, cause I remember, I haven't looked in forever.

Yeah, it expanded my self-consciousness, which is just what you need. Yeah, exactly. You take in just random bullshit trolling and you're like, that guy kind of nailed it. I got to be aware of that. Yeah, well we used to have that, exactly. And I used to have that early days,

it would be a lot, and people I'm sure still do it. They're like, I wish Arnett would shut the fuck up. Why is he talking, why is he interrupting? And I'm like, by the way, turn it off. Yeah, turn it off. And it's your show. As opposed to like, you know, honor Hawkwin Two's comments about you.

Yeah. You know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Some guy with four followers in the UK, you're like, oh, Jesus, I gotta reassess my whole life with some idiot sitting at a computer.

Because there is a sense for some reason, no matter how old you are, we're older, but you see one comment on a social media platform, and some part of your brain goes, the entire internet thinks I suck. And it's like, one idiot. But still, if it's a bad morning, you gotta fight the urge.

So Mark, so when you started WTF, you'd obviously had, I used to listen to you on Air America all the time, and you'd done a bunch of other things. What made you, take us back to what the landscape was for the medium of podcasting. Like, what made you think that there was even money there?

That there was an avenue there? What was, you know? I'm not a money guy. For better or for worse, I ended up with some, but it's never been my driving motivation. My motivation with comedy and with this has always been like, I want to be seen and heard because I don't know who I am.

Yeah. So, I am building a sense of self here and I want you all to be involved. But at the beginning, we had, Brendan and I, Air America collapsed and you know, and we, you know, I got pushed out, you know, to LA and I did an evening show that no one listened to for a while but then it just went away.

And, you know, like at the same time, I was going through kind of a miserable divorce and there was an outreach from Air America, they're like, we wanna pull you back in to do a streaming show. And this is before streaming, this is like 2007, no one knew what streaming was. So I'm like, fine, and I said,

can you give me this amount of money so I can pay her off, so I can get my life back? So they gave me this money to pay her off, and then they gave me this job at Air America doing a streaming show with Sam Cedar that no one could really watch. And so, love Sam Cedar. Yeah, yeah, and so.

I haven't seen him in so long anyways. So it was me and Cedar doing this show that crapped out in a year, and we knew it would, and I was like devastated and heartbroken so I was kind of useless. But we were at the studios at Air America, that version of it, which was a very kind of broken down version. And once our contract was up, they fired us

but we still had like two months on the contract and being good liberals, they're like, well you guys can use the offices, which is unheard of when you do a radio job. They usually don't let him near the mics, give him his take away his card and get him out. But they didn't. Didn't Cheney Garofalo have a show on Air America as well? Not then. No, that was the original one. But this was like, this was when they had like

Montell Williams and it was a and who's that other guy? Lionel, that weirdo. So and we were just in this office doing a streaming show. And so we're out of a job. And I said to Brendan, my producer, I said, look man, there are these podcasts, there's a few of them. Corolla had moved his radio show into the podcast form, but it was really just a radio show. I think who was around, Jimmy Pardo.

Ricky was doing one like, Gervais was like every once in a while kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, he was around, but there was only about five that had any profile, really five or six, it was pre-Rogan. And it came, and you could only find it on the Apple iPod itself, which is where it gets its name, podcasting, right?

Well, that's what they, that's the thing is that, you know, Apple at that time, I said to Brendan, I didn't know that either. Can you figure out how to do this? And maybe we should do it. And at that time, I said to Brendan, I didn't know that either. Can you figure out how to do this and maybe we should do it? And at that time, Apple just wanted anybody with a name to do them and they'd get behind you because it's not a platform as much as it is just,

you know, like it's not a server. It was also, it was part of the thing to like actually sell the hardware, the iPod itself. You could only get it on this new device that they were learning. That's right. Wow. So they kind of got behind us and we were kind of going. That's the first thing I've ever learned from Jason.

Yeah, enjoy. Wow. It's all about that, dude. Same with Apple TV. You know, it's like, that's just about getting people to get Apple TV. Buy hardware, yeah. Wow.

So we started kind of going in after hours, we had cards, we knew the night tech, and we were bringing guests up the freight elevator, and it wasn't really the same show at the beginning, but it was all just sort of, I needed to keep doing something. I thought my comedy career was nowhere. I certainly wasn't acting,

and I didn't know what to do with my life, so it was kind of a Hail Mary, but there was no way to make money. It must have been scary. Was it a scary time, or were you kind of comfortable Hail Mary, but there was no way to make money. It must have been scary. Was it a scary time or were you kind of comfortable with your set in life? Well, I knew that for whatever reason, I was good on these mics,

because I knew that, and Brendan knew that as well. That there was a way, who knows why anyone's gonna be good on these. But there was a way I kind of approached it that was very sort of immediate and honest and sort of searching. Did it feel like your last shot, I guess is my question. Yeah, I mean, like I used to make a joke about it

that I, you know, when I moved out to LA and I set the mics up in the garage, I was like, this is the same garage I thought about killing myself in. Yeah. But I had no expectations. There was no money expectation. It was just me trying to do something.

And then, through weird timing and just trying to focus on building a social media presence, getting people who have that on the show. And then because the celebrity press had become kind of anemic, people were locking in because I was doing their job for them. So Vulture was there. What was the moment?

What was the moment where you looked at Brendan or looked at yourself and said, hey, we have something here. We have some traffic on social media. People are listening to the show. Well, that was starting to happen because Vulture picked up on it pretty early. And then I think when we had,

when I went up to the Bay Area to interview Robin Williams, there was a couple of pretty big shows. When I went up to the Bay Area to interview Robin Williams, there was a couple of pretty big shows. I mean, we had fairly big people social media wise, but I think the Robin interview, because it had never been done before, before that or after. I mean, when he passed,

a lot of people were using pieces of that interview because it was a rare thing and it was hard to get him and he was very protected and very insulated in terms of how we were gonna do it. And ultimately I ended up driving up there, I did a lot of those kind of interviews early on where I'd talk in the car on the way. But when I got up there, it was just him in his house and an assistant and I think that people didn't realize

when if Robin was in front of more than two people, or two at least, it was gonna be a show. So when it was just one guy and also a comic and also a guy willing to connect and talk, it was a completely different sort of Robin experience. But if there were one other person there, it would have been wrong because he would have just started jumping around and improvising.

So I think that one really was a big interview in terms of, you know, people- Because people were hearing a quality from him that they were not used to. Yeah, never. It was quite, it was pretty insane, man. Yeah. We'll be right back.

All right, back to the show. And Mark, now that you've done it for so long, and I mean, it's so impressive, I think Jason said 1,600 episodes or something like that, and it's become part of your identity and all you've done all these years and now you're wrapping it up, talk about that. Are you gonna miss it?

Are you going to think like, who am I now and what do I do? I think so. It's a weird thing with the ego in terms of the world we live in and what anyone considers relevance or irrelevance. I was talking to Owen Wilson the other day about it, because I'm on that show with him.

And we were talking about stopping the podcast and he quoted some Salinger quote that was like, I don't have the courage to be just unknown. to be just unknown. Or just an average person. But I think what's happening is, and the show has always really been about the arc of my life on the base level, it's been about me and I talk to people. And I think at this point, because we put, the amount of work we do, Brendan and I,

it's just always been the two of us, and he's a very specific, very gifted audio producer, takes a lot of time to put these shows together twice a week. And people don't know that, but sometimes, he'll spend hours with an interview, kind of finding a theme, trimming it, you know maybe moving things around.

It's so funny how many people have listened to their interview and are like, God I really nailed that thing. It's like it took Brendan four hours. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well we feel the same way about Robin Bennett and the guys, Michael Terry who work with us.

They know the same thing and they're really good at it. We got the best in the biz. Let me answer that real quick, Will. Will, let me just answer Sean real quick. Okay. I apologize. I'm known for interrupting, according to the guy from England.

That's okay, me too. But the thing is, is like, yeah, I am nervous about the time, but viewing it as a piece of work, as opposed to content, and sort of really assessing the need to keep plowing along just because you can. It was sort of a conversation. We got a deal with a platform, Acast, and that we were in that for years,

and it kind of made us the money that I think we deserved after working on it so long. And now that's coming to an end. And we were talking before that about winding it down and our agreement has always been like, well, I'm gonna go as long as you go. Whoever cries uncle first, then we'll just honor that. But the truth is, there comes a point with me

because of the way I do it, where maybe I'd like to have a little bit of a private life. Maybe I'd like to not worry about which pieces and bits of my life are past. I need to kind of bring up in order to satisfy what I do in the audience I've created. That's interesting. Who find a lot of comfort and a lot of,

I've helped a lot of people unknowingly get sober, not commit suicide, deal with authoritarianism. The way I do it, it was very comforting to a very specific audience. So there's part of me that thinks like, why, I owe them. And they kind of live in your head and that gets a little emotionally exhausting. So I think that by viewing it as a amazing piece of work,

you know, 16 years of a thing that never diminished in its quality and always had the arc of me and was always interesting and engaging every episode, that to sort of say, oh, we're done with this part of our lives, it kind of is good for the legacy of the thing as opposed to being one of those people where it's like,

is Marin still doing it? That's crazy, you don't wanna be that guy. Right. Right, right, right. But do you, like, what I was going to say was, you know when you hear like an athlete retires and they say you're going to miss the game, and what's funny is they always say, you know,

I'm going to miss the guys, I'm going to miss being in the locker room, I'm going to miss the people that I work. You know, I don't know anything about your relationship with Brendan, other than you mentioned him a bunch, and he was obviously integral to your show. I mean, that relationship is now gonna change. Have you guys talked about that, how that's gonna shift? Well, you know, it's weird.

I've been working with him since he was 24, and now he's 44. Wow. And, you know, we met at Air America, and he was an associate producer. So, and the very odd thing about Brendan and I is that he's actually, you know, part of my brain. Like, you know, I do these interviews,

and then I send them to him. And my memory of them is of whatever I remember that day, but he spends hours with all of them. So I rely on him to remember things. And also he's a very brilliant guy with politics and film. He's really the smartest guy I know. And he's a great producer because he helps me frame things that I'm thinking,

which is usually intuitive and then he can give it depth. But over the years, it's always been a professional relationship. We're not really in each other's lives. He's more in mind because he hears me talk about it all the time, but we have, it's one of the only relationships

where the boundaries are healthy. There's a full respect there. We're 50-50 partners and I don't lean on him for personal stuff unless it's really pressing. And we've never had a fight since I've known him once. And it's just, so that relationship, he'll be there for me if I need him, but he needs a break. But I just think, like what you're saying is true though.

This show is a, it's a big part of my social life. It's a big part of my spiritual and soul life in terms of engaging with other humans who are creative humans and really talking about life, which I think is important to do in one's life. But I was doing it also as my job and outlet. I am gonna miss that. And I imagine that I should really give a heads up to my two friends that it's gonna be hard for them

for a little while. Do you feel that you're leaving Marc Maron in a better place than where you found him when you started? I hope so because Marc Maron is gonna be 62 years old in September and, you know, I just did, it's weird. And I know you guys have got to, you guys seem to have a,

probably a more expansive work ethic than I do. But, I don't know, I just did a special, you know, that's gonna premiere on HBO August 1st and it's really probably the best work I've done as a comic. I've done this thing for 16 years and I'm very proud of that as a singular thing. And I wouldn't say I'm tired, but I'd like to see where I am

without these responsibilities a little bit or without them being pressing all the time. I don't know. Yeah, it is, it's an interesting, I mean, yeah, you mentioned that special on HBO and you mentioned Stick with Owen and I loved that film you were in that Justin Kurzel directed The Order of the Udla.

It was just incredible. Amazing. And your career is, Interesting. It's not even ascendant, ascendant doesn't sound as respectful as I mean it to be, but things are great for you. So probably there's a part of this

while you're winding that down, it's almost because you might not even have time for it anymore because like. Shifting. Yeah, and also it seems like, correct me if I'm wrong, like you're kind of allowing yourself to be a little bit more, in a healthy way, selfish with your life. And you're saying, well, I don't want to lend

my personal life out anymore and monetize it. I want to keep my power inside and kind of enjoy being me. It sounds like a really healthy place that you're at. That's where I'm trying to get. I don't know if panic will sit in. I'm not great alone. I don't have a wife. I don't have kids.

You got cats, Mark. Yeah, I got a few cats and that's a whole other thing, dude. I don't know what I'm gonna do with Charlie, but anyway, I've got a real fuck of a cat. So. And the hard thing about cats is like, at least kids grow up. The cats are like, they're just gonna be that.

And there's no teaching it new things or anything. But yeah, I think that's true, Jason. I think that is ultimately what is happening and as you get older, you give less fucks about certain things and the acting and that kind of stuff. The way I see it is that I've been able to do everything I wanted to do only because I did this one thing on my own that got me out in the world.

And I've somehow managed to remain kind of under the radar. I don't have the weight of celebrity on me. I'm kind of chipping away. But you're on top of the radar with those that you, I would imagine, respect, admire, the audience you've actually been shooting for, you have. And that, I think, is really admirable. Yeah, I mean, I try not to,

I kinda know exactly who I am and what my, not so much shortcomings are, but there is an element, because I have friends who are big stars in comedy or whatever, and there's always that little party that's like, fuck, why am I not playing arenas? And it's just sort of like, dude, could you imagine the weirdness of doing what you do in an arena? I do a joke about it.

I say, like, I think I could play one arena centrally located in the country somewhere and I could bus my fans in. You know, like buses for Marin leaving out of Whole Foods parking lots in these cities. You know. Yeah. That's so funny. But so I do know who I am and I do know one of the reason I am who I am

has something to do with some fears, but maybe those are good. Maybe those are self-protecting, you know? Yeah. So now the question is. Yeah. What question is, what's day to day? What do you want to do? Like if you had your druthers, if it was like, hey man, and what you kind of do, what's the deal?

Is it wake up? Well, I'd like to try to figure out how to enjoy myself. You guys seem to do it. So what's the path to that? Are you going to learn how to paint? Are you gonna like learn how to, are you gonna paint? Are you gonna learn how to surf? Well look, I do a lot of things. You got guitars.

I've been playing guitar with people. I'm playing, you know, I get together and sometimes I do music shows. I've found the courage to sing in front of people and that's sort of daunting and interesting. But you know what I really like to learn how to do, and I don't know how to do it. You know, like when I act, you know, I think I do okay with it.

You do it, you're great. Well, that's nice. You are good. And I just did a feature, an indie feature where I'm the lead and I kind of manned up and pulled that up. We'll see if it gets out anywhere. Nice. But there's this thing where...

Is that the one with Judy Greer? She's in it, but Lily Gladstone's in it, Sharon Stone, Alan Ruck. Awesome. Michael McKean. That's called in memoriam? Yeah, dude, it's funny, and I watched a final cut, and let me ask you this, two questions about acting

since we're here. When you watch yourself, are you always sort of like, ah, fuck, why'd I, you know? I could've, you know. I mean, you can. I could've, you know. You know. Like, you know, I mean, you can watch the whole movie, but some part of you is really focused on like, why'd I do that with my eye?

You know, like. I will say that the fact that you're doing that, that you're watching and you're being honest with yourself and your, that will make you an incredible actor. I've learned so much from seeing how bad I am on things and adjusting for the next job. But don't people say you're good though?

Aren't they telling you that it's good? Yeah, but you know. It doesn't matter what they say. But are we right? Yes, I'm saying you need to, I think you need to watch yourself. And there's so many talented actors that I work with that never watch themselves because they're afraid

that they're bad, yet they're so good. And I keep saying, you're denying yourself like this great treat. But Jason, I think that you have a unique ability. I really mean this, and I don't know if it's because you've been doing it since you were a little kid, so it's just so ingrained into who you are, but you have a really good ability to separate

and be objective. You really, really do. It's a great quality. And so you're able to go and look at stuff and now also because you have that, because you direct. So your ability to be objective about your place in the story, understanding where you are, is I think unique, I don't think everybody has that.

I know, just thinking about what Jason does like with the directing and then with the acting, like I'm getting anxiety thinking about his career. So. So. Like I can't even fucking wrap my brain around it. You know, like, here's the question that is kinda eating at me. It's like, I was sitting with Judy at some junket for stick

cause she's got a part in that too. And she said to me, she said, the way you handled that character was very unique cause most people would have went broad with it. And I said to her, I said, I don't think I know how to go broad. And she goes, I don't think you do either. So some part of my brain is like, I gotta figure know how to go broad. And she goes, I don't think you do either. So some part of my brain is like,

I gotta figure out how to get broad. How do I become a broad comic actor? I don't have it in me. It's so funny, by the way, I was just thinking, I saw a video on social media this morning. Sean, I don't know who, I think the play posted it of you just playing piano. Oh yeah, I saw that too.

Within the last couple of days. Yeah, the Gershwin. Yeah, the Gershwin thing. And Sean's about to, he's in London, he's about to do his show on the West End. Good night Oscar. At the Tabasco or the? At the barbecue.

At the barbecue, sorry. At the, and you're just sitting down, it's you're playing, you're not playing in front of anybody and you just start playing. And honest to God, and not to embarrass you, I thought, this fucking guy is so fucking talented. Yeah. No, it's true, and I thought, like,

I couldn't do that if you gave me a million tries. Yeah, you got it. And you know what I mean? In 10 years. And I'm just thinking, like, god damn it, like, what am I doing? I'm fixing my bike in the garage this week. I'm going to order a piano on Amazon, right? I literally went to get a new wrench at the hardware store and then rode back and couldn't figure out how to use it

And was trying to get them to raise my handlebars and for a half hour before you called the guy to fix it, right? No, I I did it. I got the scar super I did it wrong and then my seat kept going down anyway, and Sean's there playing making beautiful art and I was like Oh god damn it. That's really nice. I think we all have gifts and we're all lucky enough to be able to share them. Yeah, it is pretty great, Mark.

Whatever your innate talent is, you have found a lane for it, a platform for it, a place to apply it, and doing such good for so many that listen to you. I'm very happy for you that you are deciding to spend a little of that on yourself and reinvesting in your... And leave on your terms. And also, and I reject the idea, just before, I also reject the idea. And I know you say it because it's kind of a funny one line, like people thought, well, if Mark can do it, I can do it.

That's not true at all. I think the opposite is true. I think that you inspired people to. Oh, that's nice. It's true, and you grew this medium so that dumb-dumbs like us could do it. And that your tone and your quality and your honesty and your vulnerability

was a viable format. But I think the other thing I wanna know is, because comedy, look, I watch my new special and I like it. I have complete control out of that craft, and it's the best work I've done. I know that. That's great. And with this thing, but with comedy and with podcasting, it's all driven improvisationally. It's all going to create itself in real time.

And with acting, that's different. So then all of a sudden you got a script and you make choices and all that stuff. But I don't know really where, none of my imagination goes into creating fiction or creating things outside of myself. Everything I do is impulsive and comes from, you know, the need to connect.

So I'm kind of curious, do I have creativity that is more disciplined that I can apply in another way? That's the big mystery. Can I apply my talents to something that isn't essentially marked? Have you ever sat down and written? Have you ever, other than writing jokes? Yeah, I write every week.

I don't love writing, you know, it than writing jokes? Yeah, I write every week. I don't love writing. It's exhausting. But I write a thing every week, but reflections that are sort of poetic, and I put that out into the world, and I've done the writing. But my comedy is sort of formed on stage in real time until it sort of sets,

and then I leave room for new things to happen. Like I did the special, and I usually start with like an hour and 45 minutes that I tour with for a year and a half. And then three weeks before I got to shoot, I got to get it down to like 70 minutes and figure out what the callbacks are. And then I leave a little open space

for things to drop in the days before, or even that night so it keeps it alive. And, but I'm very confident in that craft and I'm very confident in this talking on the mic thing. But like with acting or I've set in motion, I'm gonna direct a film based on my buddy, Sam Lipsight's book. And hopefully that'll happen.

But that's a little daunting and scary, but I guess I'm not afraid to take the chances. No, it sounds like, of course you've got creativity. What are you talking about? You're doing it all. Yeah, in answer to what I think your question is about the application of what you here too, for have been doing, which is basically freestyling,

improvising, you are coming first and then the words follow, right? That's your writing for standup, your freestyling on the microphone, your podcast, how do you apply that same level of accuracy, authenticity into something that is, by its own definition, pre-written, right? A movie, a script.

Or outside of myself, yeah. How do you find that level of Mark Maron in acting? I will say that you are allowed, when you take on a character, to make that character simply just another part of who Mark Maron is. You know, there are goal posts. You're far right, far left of who Mark Maron is, and then you just find whatever version that character

is closest to you inside of those goal posts. So you're still being Mark Manning. It's just the words are written beforehand and you gotta find the version of you that fits those words. And so you're still kind of, you're still exhibiting who you are and should still be able to find some enjoyment from that. Yeah, I get that part where you kind of turn things off

or turn things on within you. I get that with the acting. My question is, can I do something, like if I direct, I don't have a vocabulary for that, I don't have a style, so that's completely outside of me and I'm just gonna have to figure out what that is. Can I, could I? You don't need to do that on the first one.

Just exercise taste and just sit there and watch the results of other people's work and say yes to this, no to that, little more of this, little more of that. It is the one person on the set that doesn't have a job, so you don't really actually need to do anything. I'm not suggesting that's the right way to be a director, but I've worked with a million that work that way.

It's very common, so you need not be overwhelmed with, I gotta do a bunch of shit. You can walk before you run and just sit there and just be the arbiter of taste, you know? Right. Okay, I will do that. Yeah, you can do that, you've got great taste. Fuck, I've learned a lot from Jason today.

Yeah, I'm listening to some amazing, you gotta be starved. Who's this guy? I'm starting my own podcast next week, I wanted to tell you guys about. I'm listening to it, are you kidding me? I'm starting my own podcast next week. I wanted to tell you guys about it. I'm listening to it. Are you kidding me? I can't wait.

Holy shit. It took us 300 episodes to get through to you. I've arrived. Wait, if it wasn't for Mark, you know what I mean? How about this? This is the first interview, a first guest I've ever had that I didn't get to one single question.

And we're already six minutes over one hour. So that is a testament to you, Mr. Mark Maron, knowing the gift of gab, knowing what you're doing, keeping the conversation going. Can I share one story though for Sean? Please. Yes, please. So Sean, are you still here? Yep. There he is.

I took a bathroom break, I'm back. Well, he talked about the doctor that did the full examination for the short term. Yeah, so true. I went into one of my old guy physicals, I guess it was probably last year, and now for the prostate test, they only do the blood test.

And so, you know. The finger's gone? Right, well, I didn't know that, so, you know, I think- The finger's gone? Right, well, that's, I didn't know that. So the guy said, I said, well, are we gonna do the finger thing? Not for me, it's not. And then he goes, he says, no, no, we don't do that anymore.

You know, they do it with the blood. I'm like, well, is that effective? I mean, you find that the results, he's like, yeah, no, we just do the blood test. He says, I can do the other thing if you want. So I'm like, boy, I would feel better. That was 50 bucks extra. I would feel better if you did.

So I requested a finger bang from the doctor. Yeah, and he did that. He did, and my diagnosis is it's not clear. He needed to go back in. You said, why don't you go ahead and toss a ring on too before you get in there. He said he'd like to see you again next week. Yeah, yeah, he's here now.

You're a little bit of a hypochondriac though, like I am a little bit. Yeah, well, I grew up with a doctor father, so it was a real way to get attention. Like, you know, I think I have cancer. So, but yeah, I've got a handle on, I got a, you know, I got a, I got a handle on it, you know, it doesn't happen as much. And when it does happen, it runs pretty deep. Like, you know, like I can usually say like, just wait a couple of days, it'll probably

go away, that kind of stuff. But if I really lock into, I think I have cancer, I'll go all the way through it and I'll sit in my bed and just sweat, you know, anticipating the nothingness. That's called intelligence and being creative. The ability to sort of like create these scenarios in your brain that are just so. Oh sure, that's how I use my imagination. Just all driven by panic and fear.

I'd really like to free it up. You know who doesn't have panic? Dummies. Could be, you know, it takes a lot of intelligence to like create this like fucking doomsday scenario. I know, but don't they seem a little more happier than we are when they're not talking about blissful ignorance? When they're not talking about QAnon?

The happiness is not as profound. How about that? No. Okay. Well, that's a projection, but you know, hold on to it. Mark, we love you and we thank you. Incredible. You're the greatest.

Thanks guys. I really appreciate it. And you guys are doing great. Thank you, man. Well thank you. You please keep on jamming and will you consider at least maybe doing a special once a year or something? Just to, and I don't mean the incredible specials on.

Yeah, yeah, come back with WTF and give people updates. Well I have to figure out, I think there's other ways. You know, maybe it's the podcast version of The Letterman Show, you know what I mean? Where he does like six a year or something. I could do that but then you're kind of like who's, you know my producer, and I don't really do much without him, but I think there is a world

where I could at least maybe after a little time off get on the mic once a week just to talk without people. That might happen, I don't know. We want it, we need it, please do it. Thanks buddy. Yeah, yeah. Okay fellas, all right. Thanks a lot you guys.

Best of luck to you my friend, thanks for coming. Thanks Mark. Take care you guys, good luck with the show Sean. Break a leg. Thank you pal, thank you, appreciate it. Bye. Bye Mark. Boy that Mark Maron, I mean, so Willie, Sean, unfortunately,

you never did his show, but Willie, doesn't it sort of, you just sit there, you listen to him and he just kind of rocks you into this place of like, oh, I just want to tell you everything about me. You know? He's just so charming. He's almost like a therapist, you know?

Yeah, but without being solicitous. He just kind of goes first and there's just like this nice quality to him. He just starts talking and you're just having a conversation. You forget that you're doing it and all of a sudden you're telling him stuff that you haven't ever talked about in that way before.

Yeah, it's a really talk about gifts though. Like that's his gift is like, you know, like it was very nice of you to say that Willie, but like we all really do have gifts and his gift is to just be able to constantly keep a conversation going, be interesting, never not be curious. He's always curious about every single person

and it's really an intelligent conversation. You get sucked in. Yeah, I'm glad that at least he will always have his standup to sort of just be. I'm excited for his new standup special. That's gonna be great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that is, he mentioned it earlier, but just to make sure, it's called Panicked,

and it's gonna be on HBO August 1st. And then it'll stream on the Max after that. But such a big fan of his. Yeah, same here. He's always been such a good dude. And I figure, you know, Shon, you mentioned the gifts, and he has that, and Jason, we talked about your gifts, and you have your gifts dude and I figured you know, Shawn you mentioned the gifts and you know He has that and Jason and we talked about your gifts and Shawn Uh-oh, Eric Comps said Eric Comps is good for you

And I don't know, I wasn't given any gifts, but you know what? Hopefully one day I'll be in a position where I'll be able to BUY ONE! That was pretty good. Yeah. Bye! Bye! Smart Less Yeah, bye! Grant Terry, Rob Armjarv, and Bennett Barbago.