SmartLess - "Marcus Mumford"

Episode Date: July 27, 2026

Hey friends, we found a guest and his name is Marcus Mumford. Costner calls it Neat. Kendrick's in his undies. Vocal straws, penguin noise, and the lovely tutelage of Bible Camp. It's a season of gratitude on an all-new goshdang pod-party we lovingly recognize as a purple symbol that spiritually signifies: SmartLess. Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of SmartLess ad-free and a whole week early. Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Is everybody keeping cool today? It's really hot outside. Super hot. Sticking sweat. Yeah, it's really good. It's like, you just sweat looking at it. I'm just so hot right now. It's so gross.

Hey, is there a back end to your fucking joke? No, just wanted to say hi, it's hot outside? What kind of cold open is this? It's a hot open. Welcome to Smartless. Smartless. JPM, I'm across the street from you. Yeah, no.

I know. What do you mean? So wait, so you're up top, right? All the way up top. I'm at top. Did you ask? What was the question? Sorry.

Yeah. Okay. So I think I can see you. You can see me. I'm not in the window. Wait, are you being serious? Can you see the scaffolding? Yeah.

What's going on up there? Are we doing some remod? Do you see like a black bag on the scaffolding that's blowing in the wind? No. Because I'm on the south side of the building. South side of your building. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So on the south side of the building,

way up there, there's like a little black bag. No, because the whole building is netted, so I don't see that. Oh, you don't see through the netting. No, I don't. Anywho, so we're neighbors. We've never lived closer to one another. I know.

Actually, no, that when you lived in my house with me and my wife. That was so fun. Why does my youngest daughter look so much like you? This is before the kids, and the, God, your floors are so creaky, and I was just always, like, at night, just like, I didn't want to make a sound as I snuck around. Oh, cigarettes. I was smoking back then, too, though, wasn't I?

You sure were. Hey, why is your hair so cut? Yeah, it looks cool. I just had a little Tremski. Is Eli with you right now? No, I didn't see Eli. I went to see my boy, my guy, Kevin Woon. Why, wait, are you in a fight with Eli?

No, no, no, I just haven't seen Eli. And, uh... What happened to Eli and you? No. Well... I love Eli, you know, if you're like... So, wait. Now, Sean also has a personal hairdresser.

Sean, who's your, you've got a new person, who's your person? Yeah, his name is Marcos. Hey, hashtag relatable, you both have personal hairdressers? No, it's the, no, it's not personal. They're not full-time employment, you jerk. Yeah, kind of. The payroll, no. Who cuts your hair?

Whoever is heading the hair department on whatever project I'm working. That's a lie. As a matter of fact, she just left the apartment. She is the key hairdresser on the, yeah. And she came over to the house, huh? She did. You're not even in the cast this time. You're the director.

so she had to come to the director's out. So now who's high... That's so inky. That's so in front of those high pollutant. I'm doing one small scene which qualifies as a free cut. His legs are broken so he couldn't come to me. So I had to go to the director's apartment down in fancy part of Manhattan. Okay?

So, Sean, you're enjoying your new hairdresser? I am. He's really, really good. Marcos, yeah. So much so that you won't take your hat off. Yeah, take your head off. Let's see what Marco is doing to you. Well, it's just, you know, look like...

Back on. Back on? Like Will said it looked like a page boy. I didn't say that. I just said it looked like your hair is attached. On Saturday night, you said I looked like a page boy. Oh, on Saturday. And I said, were you going for... What scientist? Mad scientist? Because your hair was...

My hair was longer, because it was all sticking out. And you said, did you say, did you just say to them give me the mad scientist? Yes. And so, Will, you've got to... That's why I cut my hair because Sean shamed me. Is that true? Or is it just like a summer sort of... Or you...

is it swim team it looks good short like that well you know what i can't believe that you would habitually chew gum on a fucking podcast i know i mean i'm nervous just he just it wasn't by the way it's not loud the way i'm doing it you've gotten better at that but it still sneaks through and i'll bet you all speak for rob and benet right here it's getting annoying having to mute your microphone every once in a while benet rob tell me is it true we tidy it up you know what you know what people have nicotine I have a special relationship with Bennett, Rob, who may love me. And nicotine. You know what?

Our coffee chat's real hyper today. It is. I think it's my fault. I love it. I'm having one now, too. I'm having the rare 1 p.m. coffee. We're in a real Regis and Kathy Lee areas. We're lucky.

Lucky to be associated. All right. Do you want to get on with it? Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Do you want to tee up your intro? Yeah. How about you guys?

Let's have an official guest. session here okay okay okay okay let's see if you guys can guess it all right okay great um joining our nonsense today is a fellow who's not yet 40 but is already approaching the 20 year mark with his band okay they are Grammy winners they are known and loved worldwide he was born in california but raised in England he's got three children with his wife who has been a guest on this very podcast I know who it is let's fucking hear it it's um Chris Martin no no It's Marcus Mumford. Bingo.

Get out. How about that? How about that for a guest? How did you know that? Because he's a smart person. Marcus, I liked my hints. Can I get on with my hands? No, your hints were terrible.

I didn't know where he's born in California. Well, but his band sounds like a family, law firm specializing personal injury. You didn't even say it? Personal injury. It does sound like. It sounds like a plumbing company. Monfort in time. It does.

That was on purpose, right, Marcus? No, but Marcus, I knew I was just. talking about I'm so excited for the doc and I was just talking about you 10 minutes ago so excited to come and see it yeah are you gonna come yeah man are you gonna come oh sweet it's just down the street I might I might

be working but I might be able to make it I think my wife will be there which that's all anybody ever cares about she's my date have you ever guest a guest from their laugh before they've done the reveal because I was really they freak me out man

your guys freak me out there like, don't breathe. Oh, really? Until the reveal. And I wanted to laugh because you're very funny. Did they make you think that we're like, that we're prone to rage? Like if we hear the guest?

No, they made me feel, you know, in a very polite way, like I would ruin the entire show if I in sure. It's squeak. The whole surprise thing is so, it's such a waste. It just saves us from doing homework. And the audience already knows who it is.

We're the only two dicks that don't know who the guest is, the time the episode is up. I don't dare you refer to me as the dick. But listen, it's fun. We're having fun. Okay, Jason. Fun, look into it. Okay.

Marcus, welcome to SmartList. It's about time. I'm so, I'm genuinely so on, I was early on Smartis. I was very early. You came, you came to the show in L.A. I remember you and I, we went to an early screening of Maestro together. We did, yeah. And you said, and it was, it was really,

right after our show and you said, I came to the show and I said, I was so surprised. It was the night you guys were filming and it was really hectic. Wait, was it, you mean like the L.A. show? Yeah. In the dock? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The one downtown. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. At the theater. I can't remember what it's called. And I didn't want to bother you because it was super hectic. But yes, I came to the show. And I've been, but I've been listed your show

for a very long time. It's crazy. You're ready for notes. Do you have any news? notes. What would you do? If you were us, how would you change it? We're looking to improve. You know what? Here the hash shit was a low point I think. Yeah. It's a, it's all low points. What we do is, what we do is we establish the bar low early, right? And then everything feels like a win. The only way is up. I love it. It's just very cozy. I love it.

I tell you something, Mark, what's interesting, you brought up something and we're about to tap into a runner thematically is that you told me that you were at the show. And I think, you told me that you were at the show. and I vaguely remember at the time sort of saying, I wish you had said hi and then you just mentioned it was hectic and you didn't want to say hi you came to our show and didn't come backstage and say hi

and Jason has thoughts on this Hold on this is we're not talking Broadway theater Yeah let's do it right I need your opinion on this It's adjacent I went to see Do you know who I went to see last week

in Exeter was Tim Key Now do you know Tim Key? Oh yeah he's brilliant He's one of my favorite comics of all time I think he's a genius. I went and watched his show and was about to leave and thought to myself, now he knows I'm here, he helped with the tickets. It is rude to leave.

Well, that's different. If someone has helped you with the ticket. Amen. Without saying great show. So how about this, right? So you are a musician and you are in live venues and theaters. And so there are some famous people that come see your shows a lot. Here we go.

Does the same rule apply there? Are you aware who's in there? Are you offended if they don't come back and say, hey, great show? No. Culturally very different in music. Very different. I'm more of a rock and roll guy at heart, guys. Wait, what's your position, Jason?

Are you a no show? Are you a no show at the show? I think it's presumptuous for people in the audience who are famous or even pseudo-famous to think that, oh, they'll be welcome backstage just because you share fame. to come say hi. It's just like it's so arrogant. Like just get hell out. It's more like you probably want to see me

because I'm really famous, so I'll bless you with my presence. Yeah, and let you know how great I think you were. Or not. Or talk about how great the program was, or the lighting, or find something polite to say. There's that famous clip from the Madonna documentary Truth or Dare when Kevin Costner comes backstage. Did you see that?

And he goes, yeah, I thought, and she just spent three hours. She's drenched in sweat, you know, performing for 5,000 people. And he goes, he says, yeah, we thought it was really neat. Yeah, yeah. And she turns to the camera, she goes, anybody who calls my show neat has got to go. Right in front of them. No, he left and she goes, ah, like that on camera.

My favorite backstage moment like that when I was invited, very explicitly invited backstage, was after Kendrick Lamar played Bonnery. and there was a sort of message that came down from on high that Kendrick would like to see you and when Kendrick calls you come right because he's the king I learned that lesson the hard way

and it was like you can go in now and and he took off almost all of his clothes as I walked in it was amazing it sounds more like boneroo we'll be right back after these messages it was amazing and I thought like the gum the gumption you know the gumption to be like yeah come on back after the show and it'll be

the very moment when i take all my clothes off and i'm just down to my undies it's confident we'll have a chat i don't know i kind of feel but but aren't you comfortable with that like like even on a on a tv set or a film set or whatever people knock on my trailer i'm like come in i'm dressing i don't care it is a dressing room yeah yeah yeah that is you know marcus you bring up uh tim kee whom i also adore and he did that incredible film with your wife. Did. The Ballad of Wallace Island, which I loved that film.

I did too. Brilliant, brilliant film, wasn't it? We're not going to get into Carrie's career, but it, I mean, amazing. Good, because I haven't seen a lot of it, but that one I've seen three times. I love that one so much.

So, me too. You guys, I urge anybody to see The Ballad of Wallace Island. It's such a beautiful little film. It's so funny and poignant and just amazing, beautiful, beautiful film. Well, I got so into Tim's podcast. He's got like a radio for, it's not a podcast, it's a radio

show in the UK on public radio and I got so deeply into it in COVID that when he wrote to Kerry with a script I was like you absolutely have to do this movie he's, him and Tom Bazden together are phenomenal. Tom Baden amazing too. Yeah,

amazing. And just for my sister, your wife is Carrie Mulligan. Just so for Tracy my sister in case she doesn't know. Hi Tracy. Tracy almost crashed She was trying to look at all. You know. Hey, Siri. She's pulling into Kohler, Wisconsin

with her phone in her head. Wait, so Marcus, getting back to that for one quick second, she can't possibly see all your shows because you're playing almost every night. No, she actually broke a record. So are you allowed to not see all of hers? Yeah, yeah, she came on tour. I think she, in one year, maybe was at.

48 shows and watched two. Not the whole thing. Top and tail. Yeah. She really she really

she says she likes our band, our recorded music. There's some caveats. First time she saw our band play she thought we were quite shouty. And to be fair, I think she's right about that. But then, you know, she's put up with it for a long time. But then, yeah,

She doesn't feel like if she's on the road She has to come to every show Wait Marcus, did you guys meet at summer camp? Am I right about that? Yeah, we met at Bible camp Yeah, when we were like, I was 10, she was 12. What?

Nice, wow, yeah, nice. So you guys were, now she started to tell some of the story I think I remember when she was on about her. They were pen pals, right? Yeah, you guys were pen pals. Yeah, and she still has the journal entry from the day we met where my cousin was there who was two years older,

who was age appropriate for her, and he got a eight and a half out of ten. But I, who was definitely not underlined boyfriend material, got a nine out of ten. Wow. Go figure. So then what made you not boyfriend material because you were just... I was two years younger and I was also a foot shorter. Oh, it wasn't because you were some...

It wasn't because you were a monster running around and being a pair of years. No, well, she did write in her journal that I was a bit aggressive on the soccer pitch that I've gone in a bit heavy on some of the tackles which lines up but then we stayed in touch as kids I guess and then we reconnected in our 20s and did you lighten up are you still a heavy tackler

or I mean let's yes it's one of the few times I'll drop a sea bomb in earnest is co-ed soccer in the states particularly I lived in Denver and I used to play co-ed soccer and you know you can't retaliate

at least where I come from you know a woman tackles you really hard you can't retaliate so yeah I get yeah so the rage comes out on the football field sometimes oh god it's a big big game on right now

Willie I bet you're taking you I know I know I'm guys whoever organized this I know I can't believe we've done this I know I'm watching it I've got it too I just turned it off but don't spoil it right because I haven't I'm going to watch it afterwards.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really intriguing right now, by the way. It's really intriguing. I haven't got a live feed because I was thinking about it. And then I didn't press record. Should we take a break? Are you in the UK? Marcus, are you in the UK or are you here?

Yeah, and so I thought on Champions League Final Day, we'd be safe to do a chat at 5 or 6. Turns out it was an early kickoff. 5 o'clock. But do you honestly want to take a two-second break and go hit record so you can see the second half? I'll Do it on your phone, yeah, for sure

No, no, no, no Don't worry about it It's fine If it was an England game So we have a We have a fairly new management team Last couple years And who's we?

They haven't managed us through a... They haven't managed Sorry, band management Oh, okay They haven't managed our band Through a World Cup summer And it's a big deal Trying to manage

Our band during a World Cup summer Because if there's any kind of We tend not to play on England days Because they're big days I take this stuff very seriously. And I sat them all down for the third time in about February. We delayed the announcement of our tour because they hadn't yet announced what dates and days

the group games were going to be. And so business-wise, it was almost a disaster. But we waited for so long because we waited to announce the tour so that we knew we weren't going to be on stage when England were playing, right? And I sat everyone down. I said, look, guys, management's going great.

You're doing a really good job. But just so you know, we've had this conversation now three times. I'm deadly serious. If you double book us when England are playing, everyone is fired. Everyone is fired. And I think they've got the message pretty clear now.

And I think I'm going to manage to sneak to a couple of games. But it's a big summer. It's a big summer. Yeah. So let's go back to being a kid. And we're right in there around summer camp. Where did you grow up? Jason said you grew up in California?

No, I was born in California. Oh, you're born, okay. But evacuated to England at six months old. Oh, so not even. And I grew up in London. What were the conditions under which you were born in California? Why is that? My parents were working there for a couple of years down in Anaheim for a church.

And so I was born, I popped up along the way. And then they came back home to plant a church in London from the Californian one. God, and then at what point then was me? music introduced to you? Yeah, I mean, it was the kitchen. My mom listened to a lot of music and had a vinyl collection that I was allowed access to quite early on. And then we would listen to music. What were some of those vinals?

What was a lot of classical music and a lot of choral music? Because she was in a choir at university and stuff. That's cool. And then the only two kind of pop records she had or non-classical records were Blood on the Tracks. Amazing. And House of the Rising Sun by the Animals. Wow. Oh, wow.

And so I played them to death. And then we leaned heavily into the greatest hits by Bruce Springsteen. That was like the family car record. So that explains that you don't have an aversion or rather you have an attraction to or an ability to incorporate these other instruments and instrumentation around your music. Some people call it folk. I know that that's not really accurate. But the fact that you can work in all these different sense.

sounds and your music, your sound, the band's sound, is so full and varied. Agreed. Does that have some roots in the classical music that you were all the multiple instruments? Yeah, maybe. I think that's partly a reflection of the taste that, you know, amongst the band members. Like me and Ben and Ted all have real different tastes in music, and it covers most genres. Ben, like Ted's the best guitar, he's the bass player, he's the best guitarist in the band by a long way. He plays jazz and blues and kind of studied it.

but plays the bass in the band which is very kind of kind actually and then Ben grew up playing lots of classical and jazz on piano and saxophone he was a better drummer than me at school and then I you know yeah we cover most of the genres together

and I think we've always felt like whatever instruments suit the song that we're writing at the time right you know so we leaned heavily into like electric guitars and stuff on the third and fourth records and now I've kind of come back more to the acoustic stuff and it's just fun man. We love it.

We'll be right back. And now back to the show. What about you playing so many different instruments? That's not super common, right? Well, the key is learning three chords on lots of instruments. Yeah, but I mean, playing drums is so not the same as playing a guitar. What's more difficult? It seems like the drums would be very difficult to master, or is it just...

Well, I mean, that was my instrument at school, and I took it for. fairly seriously and did the grading system. And that started with pots and pans in the kitchen, my mom and dad. And then I played all the way through high school. I played at college just for the year that I lasted at college. And then got hired as a drummer in a band. So I quit college.

For Laura Marling, yeah. So I quit college, go play for Laura. Well done. And that was my first job in music. And that's really nice. And so I got hired as a session drummer, and I still like to play drums for people when I get the chance, honestly, because I love it.

And then I learned open tunings on the guitar so that I could play it like a percussion instrument, really, without having to read... I can read drum music. I can't read, you know, other music. Oh, really? Does drum music look like? Yeah.

It's still on a stave. Yeah, there's X's and there's Nauts and Crosses, basically. And so, like, the snare is an X, and the kick drum is a... Yeah, the kick... The bass drum goes at the bottom, and then the snare is like two down, you know, where the C would normally be.

And the hi-hats are on top, and they're normally X's, and then the symbols are on top of that. They stack it on the way. So, you know, the note? Like, there's a line... Yeah. And the black dot.

Yeah. Instead, it's a line with an X, and that's percussion. For symbols, it's an X. Yeah. Huh. Huh. Wait, Jason and Will, did you guys ever... Did you ever...

Try to learn an instrument or no? Piano, I played as a little kid, and then when I got too big to be pushed around, I said, I'm out. Yeah, sure, I understand that. So you always had a great attitude. Is that what you're saying? You're consistent.

No, it was, it wasn't, it wasn't like. I wish I had. I wish I'd stayed with him. But, you know, it's like, my parents, like they said, you know, like it's a form of discipline. You're going to have to do your practice for an hour. every single day. Yeah, yeah.

So they made it fun. Exactly. Like that was a problem. Like, you know, they should have made it fun. Like any kid, you're going to try to cheat and not practice. And so they set up a tape recorder that I had to put on the piano and press record during my one hour practice to prove that I was practicing. Of course, it was the same music that I was practicing each and every week. So you just record it once and just turn that in.

Record it once. And they bought it. You know, you're not getting any better by Friday each week. Yeah. That was your audition for It's Your Move. That sounds like the thing of your character and It's Your Move would have done.

The show Jason did when he was like 15. It was so funny, Marcus, I played over here. It was a brilliant show where he just played a kid who did shit like that all the time. I wish, yeah, I wish I had, I did a couple instruments here and there

during school and I wish, I just wish I'd stuck with it. It's one of those, like I wish I'd, I can play four chords on a guitar really sloppily. I just... But let me ask you this, Marcus, to that, to Will's point is like, once you learn and become proficient as you have in so many areas of music

and not only music singing and all that, is you don't listen to other music the same way. Yeah, that's true. Whereas somebody like Will or Jay who... I love music. Yeah, you have a different appreciation for it, not that you don't if you know it, but, you know, it's just a different ear. We had this conversation the other day we had a party at home.

It was Carrie's birthday. And someone came and they were like, there's no music. And I was like, yeah, we don't really play music. I can't do background music. As if music's on, I want to lean in and listen to it. And I can't switch that part of my brain off. So then Kerry doesn't like having music in the house because I just stop having a conversation.

Like if music comes on, I just... And she'll be like, you've gone. I was like, oh, sorry, let's turn it off then, I guess. And then when you listen to it, do you, do you analyze it, the chord progressions, the melodies? Yeah, yeah, normally, you know, and a lot of the time, then sort of store it to try and copy it, you know. Yeah, sure, sure.

Do you listen to a lot of new music at all? Yeah, yeah, I listen to probably mostly new music, actually, and if I'm on my own, that's when I listen to music. And how are you finding the new stuff? Is somebody giving you tips on like, oh, you should check this out? Or how about this, you know, all those streaming services, they like, they figure out what you like and then they send you suggestions and stuff. Do you find that helpful? Do you follow some of those? Sometimes, some of my favorite music I've found on TikTok when I was on it.

And now I'm not on it. My new music has dried up a bit, actually. I was enjoying that. There's an amazing British band called Divorce, a great band name, who became my new favorite obsession. I was completely obsessed with them, and we got them to come on tour with us, which was fun. But I just found the algorithm, you know, fed them to me.

So you found them and said, hey, let's get these guys come on tour with us. Yeah, and then we ended up recording a song together. Oh, that's great. I love that. Wait, you had to cut yourself off from TikTok? Is that when I'm sniffing out? I did, yeah.

I just, well, I did it ahead of putting out the new record because I just wanted to be insulated from how other people felt about it, because I knew how I felt about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I didn't need some, like, comment somewhere, spoiling my experience because I was happy with it. Good for you.

And I couldn't change it. It was done. And this is the first time I've ever put a record out where I genuinely have not read a word about it. And I feel free. I love that. That's cool. It's cool. I mean, it's a privilege, obviously, but it's cool.

So other people do our socials and stuff. And, you know, we send stuff over and we think about it. We're intentional about it. But I don't have to do any of it or be on any of it, which is cool. You must come across, you must come across bands and stuff. when you're touring too, or if you do a festival, do you, like, all of a sudden, do you find yourself going, oh, wait, what is that going on over there

and, like, and hear somebody that way? Does that ever happen? Yeah, yeah, and a lot of the time, it's just recommendations from mates, you know. They're like, you should listen to this. And sometimes when we're discussing who to come on the road, one of us will pipe up with something we've been listening to, you know, because we're very intentional about who comes out and supports us on tour.

Because those are the shows I go to now. Yeah, right, mostly. And I'll go, and every night I don't like, playing a show without watching the support band first because it just gets me in the mood and it makes me feel what the room's like. Yeah, of course. Yeah. There's a new English band that I've been obsessed with, West Side Cowboy.

Have you heard these guys? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So fucking good, man. Didn't they support Geese on their run? Oh, did they? I think they support. Yeah, them and Dav Ellis. So that I found Dav Ellis through Geese because I knew he was on the road with them. And I'm

like, you know, the rest of the internet obsessed with them. And And yeah, that's how I found Davellis. So a lot of the time it's just like, who's playing with who and these little communities that pop up, which we were part of when we first started as a band. And that's really how people discovered us because they'd come to a Laura Marley.

That's how Carrie found out about it. She booked a ticket to a Laura Marling show. And then we started shouting sort of an hour before Laura went on. And then she was like, oh, Mumford, I knew a kid called Mumford. And that's so I love those little communities still, you know. Yeah, yeah. She left a note with our tour manager. She didn't come backstage.

No, she left a note. See, that's classic. That's really classy. Wait, so I'm embarrassed. She probably told us this, I apologize for forgetting. So on the note, did she say, hey, so I did know this guy named Mumford. I forget his first name.

Is his name? No, do you know what? We were both, I guess, on Facebook for like a six-month window when I was still at college, and we connected there. And then this was like a couple years after that when we'd started the band. and I was still playing in Laura's band.

And so she left a note with our tour manager with her email address on it, I think. Wow. So knowing that it was you, once she saw you on stage, maybe? Yeah, yeah. It's great. You know what's great about this, Marcus, but also email, not the phone number.

Just another layer. You know what I mean? Slow play, real classy. She's a classy broad. She's a classy broad. A classy broad. When did you know that music might actually be a path towards a living for you

as opposed to just fun. Still not convinced. Still in some state of arrested development. What a base. Now that was a band. For Sean, that's a TV show that was on. I gotta write that show. For Sean.

I think... Is it playing now? Was also a good band. I think it's like... I was at college. I got offered a job playing music. I wasn't having a great time at college, so I stopped.

and took a sabbatical. Where'd you go to college? And I think Edinburgh. And I think in my head I'm still on my... Until quite recently, I've been on my sabbatical from college. Sure, sure. I mean thinking that you would probably go back? Yeah.

And what would you have studied if you'd gone back? I was doing classics. I was doing Greek and Latin. What, literature? To do what? Unclear. You know, it's not a vocational... No, it isn't.

Just reading? Reading? It's what a lot of lawyers. To be a monk? Yeah. Classics in the UK particularly is seen as like a good, honest, old school degree to do

if you're doing something. But what do you do with that? I don't understand. He said lawyers, yeah? Oh, lawyer. Well, what's cool about it as a... Come a member of parliament. Yeah, a lot of those.

A lot of prime ministers do it. But I wasn't on that track. What's cool about it is it gives you access to poetry and philosophy and storytelling and language and linguistics, anthropology, ancient history, all these things that you study through the original languages. Jason, you're drooling.

Your mouth is up on your drool. So it's really geeky, and you get your geek goggles out when you're talking about. I bet it helps you when you write lyrics. And it's how I got introduced to poetry. It's how I fell in love with words, honestly. And then I started reading T.S. Eliot really pretentiously as like a 17-year-old And suddenly words had a new depth to them. And, you know, he was a classicist too.

And the references, a lot of classical references, and I'd sort of read a bit of Homer and then switch over to Elliot and be like, oh, cool, look at the way he's joined up and referred back to this. Can't you just see 17-year-old Marx just riding a bicycle through some field and then just like dropping into a field and reading poetry? Yeah, with a bad cat and a basket on the bike.

I was that guy. I was sat on the train to Edinburgh I wore a thick fabric and a collar that I cut the collar off my shirt because I'd seen the assassination of Jesse James and just got deep into poetry. And honestly, until this last record, I've been in denial about that too. You know, I've been in this process of being like, this is kind of who I am now, this is what I do.

So for Prize Fighter, I'd go and sit in the coffee shops in Hudson, New York, because we were recording with Aaron Destin at Longpond, and I'd sit in the coffee shop for two hours every morning, and I'd do my artist's way, like, morning pages, and I'd sit and read poetry like a real twat and just really lent in to, I guess, my identity at this point, and it helped me write lyrics, you know.

Let's hit Babel for a second here. So what did the incredible success of that album do for you? personally, like, was it jarring to sort of have that next step of success and recognition and treasure? And like, was it, did you adapt well to that? Was it, was it a fun thing or was it a bit disruptive? That's a great question, actually. Thank you. Finally for once.

I don't think anyone, unless you may be one of Simon Cowell's projects, I don't think you're trained. you know, to have that kind of level of success. We started playing music because we loved playing. We loved each other. And it was just fun. And we got free beers. And then suddenly, we were playing 250 shows a year. And then suddenly, you know, the first record starts gaining some pace.

We took six weeks off tour to make Babel, which our producer at the time was really frustrated about. He's like, why do you have shows booked on the other side of a recording process that's really dumb, creatively but we rushed it and I think we got it right but it was pressurized and then the success of that

record around the world really and particularly in the States just opened us up to a world we weren't like ever anticipating or planning for and yeah I mean I don't think unless

you're a kind of pop project you're even imagining it and then suddenly the shows are all selling out and you're moving into bigger spaces and fulfilling lots of your dreams as a kid like to headline Glastonbury we only did on two records

I remember getting at the end of the set we basically had to play the whole of both records to fill the time and I remember getting the end of the set and just being like, we just need more songs man that's all we got we need more songs because you watch Springsteen play for three hours and he's playing like

just hit after hit after hit yeah yeah so yeah I I wasn't really prepared for the success of that record. And I think we reacted to it a bit by making a record on the third one that no one was expecting from us. No one particularly wanted, but we loved it. And it took us into bigger rooms as well. And that was how it went widescreen.

And then the fourth record. And then we had a long gap before the fifth and sixth records. Yeah. How long was that gap? That was like on paper. It was seven years. I mean, we were touring for two of those after Delta came out and then COVID happened. Yeah.

So we were a part as a band for maybe three years, yeah. That's what was that biggest adjustment there when that first wave of big success came in? I mean, obviously most notable would be the bigger crowds and the sellouts and it would probably be nicer hotels and you're flying from city to city instead of the buses maybe or just silly things like that. But it must have been pretty heady too, right? You're watching people, you know, sing your songs en masse. and probably getting some feedback as to how you're affecting people and changing their lives a bit.

And, you know, probably a weaker, more insecure person would probably buy into that a lot and kind of own a lot of that. I'll bet you sort of deflected a bit of that and tried to keep it all about the music and keep it simple. But you tell me. It drove a bit of my shame narrative that was already there that I've looked, at a little bit. I drank a bit more than probably I should have. Like imposter kind of stuff? Yeah, a bit of that. Yeah, a bit of that for sure. And I went in a bit.

And on stage, you'd be very out, you know, give yourself completely. And then my friendship circle shrunk a bit. Yeah. I think, yeah, I did use booze, particularly as a bit of an escape. and then really throughout it all honestly my marriage has just been the best thing about everything yeah yeah so but i think as we get older it all it's sort of naturally and in a very healthy way i think most people that circle gets smaller you figure out more accurately who you are and what the what the what the proper fits are for you and that usually equates to a smaller more specific

more precise experience with people. Right? You're not out there shopping as much for... Yeah, and I think I recognize the idea of capacity. Yeah. Because for a few years there particularly, I was spread really thin. I mean, you guys must find this with your jobs as well.

You meet so many people, and a lot of them you love, and then you want to be friends with, and then you connect with other people, and then I found myself getting spread really thinly and not being very good friends to my friends. Right. and then that shrinking happened a bit.

So in a kind of healthy way, I think. So I guess it's, yeah, I think you're right. It's partly growing up. But yeah, I suppose I dealt with it all in a bit of unhealthy ways. Then I stopped drinking booze more out of choice than necessity, although, you know, we could debate that. And then replaced it with ice cream for a while until I was told, you know, I wasn't losing any weight.

It was really confused about the whole day. We have similar paths in that way I did that route too where it was like an ice cream-based diet after I quit booze Yeah Yeah Because you miss the sugar

I remember that Yeah I miss it too Wait Marcus You know I'm always kind of interested Probably been an hour At least I'm like starting to shake You know I'm always interested

When people like you who have bands and you tell me, did you have vocal training or know any, or how to use your voice or because when I go, for example, I'm a massive Depeche Mode fan. They came out on the podcast. It was really wild. I'm also a huge fan of yours and I love all kinds of music too.

And I went to go see Dave Gahan sing and I can tell right away, oh, he didn't warm up. And then after the first couple songs, his voice kind of opened up a little bit and then it was great. great and it was great from the beginning too but just kept reach out and touch faith and then do you do did you have any kind of training or did you realize when you were touring like oh shit i don't know how to take care of the kind of athleticism of my voice yeah i i was convinced for years that whiskey and cigarettes really helped yeah right and then just recently i've

started actually brandy carl introduced me to her vocal coach, guy called Rob Stevenson, who's totally changed my world and giving me some education on stuff. Like, it's a muscle and you have to warm it up. And I've been lucky not to, and I watched friends around me get

affected by the Palleps thing and losing their voices. We've never, I don't think we've cancelled a show for my voice in the past. Which has been cool. Like the only couple of shows that I remember cancelling were because Ted had a had a brain hemorrhage. Oh, jeez.

Which wasn't funny at all. Get up. But now is quite funny because he had to wear a hat for a while. But he headlined Glastonbury two weeks after getting that surgery, like a legend. And I think we cancelled two shows for that. But we've just been lucky and my voice has been resilient. Amazing. But I think recently I've realised it's a muscle.

Now I start, and now I have a full routine and I look after it. I quit smoking and all that stuff. Oh, good, good, good. And we will be right back. And back to the show. What does that mean about the polyps? Because I had polyps removed from my vocal cords, but it means you're weak psychologically.

Oh, damn it. Yeah, it's the piano lesson thing. It's because it's a piano, your parents were right. It was character development. Yeah, what a shame. No, but I think the doctor did say that I wasn't using my voice correctly because I was like screaming in bars.

and smoking cigarettes and stuff. And he said, I just, I wrecked it that way. Is that what happens to musicians or to singers that don't know how to warm up correctly? You can create polyps on your vocal cords? I honestly don't know. I think the wear and tear of it, is it, is true. Yeah.

I know that, like, going out after show, I just don't ever do that anymore because talking in loud rooms after shows is the thing that is worse for your voice. Right. So after a show, I don't go on voice rest. I'm not like precious about it. Right.

But I don't go out. And I stay away from a loud place. Well, you also have a wife you love and three kids that you've got to go spend time with too, you know? Also, I've just become quite boring and monkish, you know. Jason, Amanda ever developed poplops? Oh, boy. I'm screaming.

That's your date. That's your date. I know. I love her. I love her. more than anything in the whole world. Hey, so... I lost my voice two days ago, actually, a little bit.

Really? Yeah. Too bad you found it. Wait, Will, have you ever checked out? Go ahead. Jay. I lost mine two weeks ago. Yeah, it's still weak.

I still... Like, if I ever did theater, I'd have a real... I would need to take real lessons about how to use my house. Have you not done theater? No. I mean, tiny, small room stuff. But, like, if I ever did it, you know, here in New York, I'd lead to help.

Jay, I was thinking the same thing. Yesterday, I didn't fully lose it, but I was really close, and I thought, I was just thinking about you, Sean, and about how you've been basically on stage for the last three years, kind of straight. Yeah, and Marcus, you must have the same thing. And I thought, I'm going through this thing of like, I wouldn't, if I were in a play right now, I'd be fucked.

I wouldn't be able to be able to do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you really have to take care of it. And, Sean, do you do, like, a full hour every night before you? Yeah, and there's songs that I'll sing to one. Like if I know if I'll sing all by myself and if I can hit that high note. Let's have it. All by my... Then I can do the whole show.

Sick. You know what I mean? It's funny. And you usually do it through tears, right? Right. No, that's the song because it was a one-man show, so I would sing all by myself. Uh-huh. Marcus, do you have a go-to little thing that you do for warm-up? Like a little scale thing or something like that?

Yeah, I do. It's called The Penguin Noise. It's a lot of this. that's good yeah really yeah and then vocal straws i use straws it's about like i mean we could get teckers if you want but it's about getting your larynx to drop back down like they're putting your tongue at the back of your throat and opening your palate with a straw literally with a straw and then the straw the straw helps with back pressure so you blow bubbles into a into a bottle through a straw and then the back pressure helps open that up and easel that out it's like a little

reverse massage do you ever actually do you ever accidentally throw up do you ever accidentally throw up when you're doing it i i can't eat like four hours before we go on stage because then bits come up yeah yeah yeah because it's all quite shouty you know yeah yeah that's why i'm just you accidentally throw up after a lot of big meals don't you yeah oh oh darn it but i hold his hair i hold his hair i've got to get it out inside 10 minutes, otherwise it starts to absorb the fat. So, Marcus, Marcus, we're a month into your tour. What will have been the most important part of your prep to go on some long tour? Like, do you have to get, you know, your family stuff all in order so that it can withstand you being gone so long long?

Do you have to get your body in order so it can withstand the hours? What is prep for a long tour look at? I have been trying to approach. I got to a point a couple years ago, I was like, there is an element of physicality to my job that requires me to train a bit more. So I have been working on that

and trying to approach it more like an athletics program and everything else will follow if I can do that stuff well. What are we looking at? Cardio, we're pushing weight. What's our terms? training the play. Yeah, all that stuff.

Yeah, and then we have a little gym on the road that helps. There's a lot of card. Like singing, it turns out that singing playing guitar and stamping like this with your feet, which you must remember, Jason, from that video. Oh, yeah. Yeah, Jay was in the video. So fun. That stuff turns out is some sort of cardio.

I used to think it was enough to. Yeah, it's exhausting. Wait, talk about how did that happen? How did Jason, how did Jason, how did Jason, Baitman end up in your video. Less disdain. No, I spit it out. How did fucking Jason Bateman end up.

It was all, it was a friend Sam Jones, wasn't it? He called you. Oh, yeah. Or was it Sadecas? I think maybe I was doing horrible bosses at the time. Maybe it was, I'll bet you Sam contacted. I didn't know Sam, so he wouldn't have contacted me. So it would have been probably Sadecas or Ed or Will.

Yeah. And then they, I don't know how they got to me. It must have got a lot of passes before they got to me. But God, that was so fun. Probably my favorite music video we've ever done because I didn't have to do anything. And I just got to watch you guys do it. It was absolutely amazing.

Forte killed me on that. Oh yeah, well, Farte was in. With a kiss, the kiss. The kiss, the hard kiss. All right, so that brings us to Sam. That brings us to the dock. Let's talk about the dock. Let's talk about the train tour.

Let's talk about you arranging. for those other groups because you spoke earlier about picking the bands that you guys are interfacing with. Well, let's go in order. What's it like traveling on a train that long with that many people?

It's really exhausting. I don't recommend it. It's very confined. It's like being on a submarine. It's worse than a tour bus. Right. And I mean, it was the most... Sorry, tell the audience what the basic concept of this thing.

And it was inspired by the... This happened, Woody Guthrie. and gang, right? Yeah, I think they did it. Basically, someone came to us, you know, I don't know, 2011 and said, we have access to a bunch of vintage rail cars. Do you want to go on tour on a train?

Yeah. And we, at that point, we're like, we'd just done a tour of India. Yeah. Well before we had any reason to do a tour of India. You know, we'd toured on a narrow boat. We liked putting up our own festivals. It was just, like, fun ways of, like,

making the shit feel slightly different. and discovering bits of the world that you might not otherwise. So we were feeling adventurous and we said, yes, we did it with Edward Sharp and the Magnetic Zeros. With old Crow Medicine show and it was the best week on the road we've ever had.

And we made a film and it won a Grammy and we were all very happy. It was great. And so we thought, let's run it back slightly differently. Let's get all our favorite musicians together as a house band. And then every night we'll get special guests

to come on stage with us. So we had Lainey, Wilson, Harris, Rucker, Maggie Rogers, and Noah Kahn. And we learned their songs the day before. Wow. And performed like the house band for them. And it was really fun. And we did it.

Yeah, we traveled by train. But that's not really the audience participation part, because obviously it was just us and crew that went on the trains. But it was only five days. So it was manageable. But it was exhausting. But you've got Sam and his gang with the cameras in there documenting the, yeah? Yeah, so Sam made this film for it, which I really love, actually.

I don't enjoy the process of making music films. I think in general they're quite boring, and I don't really watch them for pleasure. And this one... It can feel like a reality show, right? Yeah, a little bit. And, yeah, I find it quite hard to relate to a lot of them. Obviously, the Beatles one is my favorite of all time, and I've watched that many times. But other than that, I don't get a huge amount of enjoyment from watching.

This one, especially not our ones. But this one, I actually think he did something really beautiful with, and the people involved were unbelievably kind with their time. We made it kind of like a socialistic enterprise. Everyone got paid the same, and whatever cash there was left in the pot after very expensive trains, we just shared out. And then our friends really gave us their time, you know,

and they're phenomenal musicians, and we had it a working time. I was going to say for Tracy, but she knows because she met Sam when we went to her. Sam Jones is the same guy who did the Smartless on the road special that we did. So that's how we all know Sam through the process.

Yeah, that's so cool. I didn't know he did this and I didn't know anything about this. When can we see it? And I'd made a film with him before. He made the documentary about the new basement tapes thing that we did with Elvis Costello and Jim James and Taylor Bosman.

Oh, I don't know about this. Yeah, and Giddens. We took old Bob Dylan lyrics that Tebow and Burnett had like pilfered off Dylan. and asked if we could record music for them and Dylan amazingly said yes they were literally from shoe boxes and the Big Pink from the 60s

and so we wrote music to all these unused lyrics which was really fun and Sam made a documentary of that so I'd worked with him before and obviously he shot our Rolling Stone cover which I hate but he also made that Hopeless Wanderer video that Jason was in so we'd work with him a bit before and he came on and did it and it was sweet

and he also made the Wilco Dock I'm trying to break your heart Yeah, which is also amazing. It's so great. It's so good. I want to see that talk you were just talking about. I want to see that one where you guys with the diligence. Oh, it's sweet.

Yeah, it was a while ago. Yeah, too, actually. Go ahead, Cheney. I was just going to do my standard, like, do you have any like one show or one fan interaction on stage that just went horribly wrong, or something that went horribly wrong on stage during a tour? Yeah, yeah, recently.

We started the Prize Fighter tour in Australia. Yeah. And we played a song for the first time and it went so badly wrong, we stopped halfway through, and we didn't start the song again. No way. I love that, though.

Oh, my God, I love that. What did you say? I said, that's live music, folks, and we moved on. And I wanted to fall through the floor so badly. It was the worst, I think it was the worst moment I've ever, ever had on. Why did you stop? Oh, it was just a disaster. Everyone was in the wrong key and wrong time.

Oh, wow. a disaster and would have required a full rehearsal to do it. And I thought that was probably pushing it. So we just stopped and moved on to one there. And you just thought, we'll get this, we'll get this, watch this, six, seven, eight. It was awful. It was so horrible. I'll bet you the audience loved it though, like kind of, you know, like a blooper. Yeah, that's so cool.

Yeah, I think, you know, yeah, my wife says things like, because I forget lyrics a lot. When I get nervous, my memory goes, and I'll forget a lyric sometimes, and she'll be like, that's the bit people love. Yeah. That's the live bit as different to the original. record and... I toured with Kenny Rogers when I was in my early 20s as a Christmas elf in his tour. Amazing.

And he would forget the lyrics all the time. And whenever he did, he would just hold the microphone out to the audience. You got to know when. I thought... Sean, I thought you'd go, hey, Santa, the lyric is. Yeah, shuffle over like a little helpful elf. Hey, have you ever done that on stage, though? Because that's, that terrifies, especially with a one-man show.

Have you ever forgotten your lives? Yeah, yeah. There's one, I just did it. It's absolutely terrifying. There is one part where the line is, you know, I say to one of the characters, I say, are you going to be here? How long are you in town for? And he says, the weekend.

I say, can we get together and discuss this one thing? He says, sure. And then I say, your last name is DuPain. And then one night I go, is one of the characters. I go, how long are you in town for? He goes, the weekend. And I go, can we get together? and I go

and I go and I go to myself I go wait how long are you in town for to the character and I go I just told you

I'm in town just for the weekend and it bought me time to think of what line was next and did you get there yeah thank God and do you think people noticed no they don't fucking know

yeah and certainly the stage manager that was asleep in the wings not throwing you the line didn't notice either, right? Right, yeah. They just watch.

The living daylight's happening. Yeah, it is pretty good. All right, before we let you go, because we're two minutes over here, I want to know how being a parent has changed the way that you, that you listen to music or write music. I'm assuming they go with you a little bit, but it's got to change the way you are as an artist, as a musician, yes? Yeah. Yeah, I think it's, I think it's been a healthy, I think it's been a wonderful antidote to my

narcissism. because you can't just you can't just be the cent I mean you probably can but I found it difficult to remain the centre of my universe with these little ones around and it puts everything else in perspective

in such a helpful way for me I've found it so if you're asking about how it's how it's affected my work it makes me more intentional when I go to work and actually scheduling wise I just want our team to pack as much as they can into as short a period of time as possible.

So I'll go away and I'll work really, really hard for whatever period of time I'm away, and then I'd come home and sooner than I would have, if the schedule had been more easy, you know? And I would imagine when you do come home, that is the thing you are most addicted to completely indulging in, right? You are rationally excited to just like dive headfirst into family. Yeah, I want to get home, you know, like one of the guys really likes, doing the day, I just want to get home

as soon as possible I don't care which flight it is and then hopefully be there for the school run the morning after because, and that's why dropping booze for me has been so helpful, it's just made my life more functional.

Get up earlier. Because I get home, I'm not dusty. You know, I'm like, yeah, it's just being like present as fast as you can in an accelerated manner, it feels like. So it's made me more present, I think. Yeah, yeah.

And then more grateful when I get to go and do my work and go and play these shows. I just feel grateful for it. I'm in this season of gratitude with the band that I'm just really enjoying because I'll go away and be like, I've got to make the absolute most of this because it's

awesome and it's amazing. It's such a privilege and our audience have been so kind to us and continue to grow and that's just felt like wild and so I want to be really good. I want to be really great at that and that takes time and attention that

obviously is a cost balance, you know. But I'm just attacking it. Well, you are, you want to read out and work. Sorry, Jay, I was just going to say, like, I've gone through that too in the last couple of years. It's like if you are going to do something that's taking you away from home and the kids and all this stuff, it's got to be valuable. Exactly. And if you're going to do it, you do it wholeheartedly. And then you go, because you really just want to be home.

Right. So it's got to be meaningful. Well, we're grateful of the time you do spend away from them because you are incredible at it. Keep going at it. And maybe we'll see you for the doc down the street. I will see you. With my wife.

The woman he'll be with is my wife. And I want a full report, Marcus. Take some pictures for me. I'm really excited to see you guys. Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. Oh, thank you. for doing this.

Privilege. Oh, man. We're such fans. Enjoy the rest of your day, Val. Thank you, see you guys. Okay, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye. That was double M, as I like to call him. Double M&M.

I call him M&M. It was great. By the way, isn't that crazy that at the beginning, we were talking about our hair and you said, what's the name of your new hairdresser? And I said, Marcos. No, it's not. Marcos.

Marcos Mumford. Yeah, I just, I just don't think that's Mark. And then the guest name was Mark. Well, it's M-I-R-C-O-S. So it's the same. I get where you're going with this, Sean. But, you know, it's not, it's not fucking nuts.

It's not crazy. No. I think that's really wild. I mean, what are the odds of that? What are the odds? He's great, though. I mean... Chat TB-T, what are the odds?

He is great. That I didn't, you know, I never knew anything about him. I like, I really like his... flavor of British accent. Yeah, me too. I noticed that too, and I like that too. It's melodious. Yeah, it's nice.

It's calming. There are definitely different regions of the British accent. Oh, which ones aren't there, Jason? There's sort of the aristocratic sound. There's the Liverpadlian, there's the slightly Scottish, there's the Welsh, right? Will, Will, you're the guy over there. How dare you? Oh, very dear, yeah.

Right? And, like, I wouldn't be... You're okay. You're okay. You're okay. You're right, Jason. Yeah, see? You can't just do a regular British accent

if you're going to play a character. It's got to be region-specific. Yep. He's such a nice dude. I'm really excited for the doc. I can't wait to see it. I didn't know anything about it. Yeah, yeah.

It's going to be really good. What time are you going to pick my wife up? And what are you going to wear? Well, she's spending the night, so I think that we're going to... Hang on. We're going to be, we'll just get ready together, you know. By the way, I was just talking to her right before this.

She says, hello, Jason. Oh, yeah, I've not spoken to her yet today. You guys really do more time on the phone than me. We can decide if we want to cut this. I said, are we doing dinner on Sunday? She goes, I'm not sure. And if we don't do dinner, I go, well, we can get dinner. She goes, no, if we're not doing dinner with all of us getting together,

I'm doing a full moon women's circle, L.O.L. Hold your tongue. Full moon, women's circle. There is some kind of a full, full light bulb up in the sky coming up here soon. How about that? Wait, and what are you doing the circle? I'll call her. I don't know.

Maybe I'll do that. Yeah, we'll trim this. All right. Who's got a buy? Anybody got a buy? Wait, didn't I try to start something new last week? If we ever did a week where we didn't throw out a buy, we would have to call that the Bye week.

The bye week we get a bye. I don't need to keep saying it. Smartless is 100% organic and artisanly handcrafted by Rob Armjurf, Bennett, Barbico, and Michael Grant Terry. Smartless.