SmartLess - "Michael Keaton"

Episode Date: September 2, 2024

"Forget about that whole authentic thing," it’s Michael Keaton. The practicality of a Ferrari, puppets, good fortune, and an obscure movie about a bat. Yeah 220, 221, whatever it takes… it’s an all-new SmartLess. Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to listen to new episodes ad-free and a whole week early.

Hey guys, Will, really, your hair is really growing in there. It's very long. Sean, I'm going to go ahead and let you start again. We need a little bit more enthusiasm when we're starting this episode. Sorry, sorry. Hey, Will's hair. And welcome to an Old New Smurfs. You know, listener, every once in a while, Will and Sean and I have to have an adult conversation. We have to do a little bit of a Zoom,

we need to talk about scary legal things. And we just had one of those before this record, and Sean got a real head full of steam going in his legal prowess, and talking about how he looked through these documents and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And in walks an order of, presumably from an off camera Scotty, two frosted strawberry pop tarts

and a half a glass of milk. That's right. And he keeps talking and all his legal, he starts choking on his fucking frosted pop tart offering legal advice to me and Will. At one point he says to you, Jason, he goes with a mouthful of Pop-Tart, he goes, if you want to sign it to me,

I'd love, I'd love to sign it. And I go, you didn't even know the fucking document you were signing, Pop-Tart? Yes, I did. Yes, I did. Jason just got back from vacation, how lovely. I'm very lovely and relaxed. Will looks like he's been on vacation for six months.

He's got some new lighting in the Whisper booth there. I don't, he's got a new light. And he's got a nice tan from his Long Island condo. The light is great out here in the condo and I was able to, you know, via the kindness of others, get out and play some golf. So I've been and spent a lot of time with the kids out here.

We've been out at the beach a lot. Quick, what are their names? Terrence, Glad Phil. Nope, that's wrong. Karen. You don't even have a girl. It's four boys. Okay. Karen. Well, you caught have a girl. It's four boys. Okay.

Karen. Well, you caught me off guard. How's everybody doing? I always feel like Jason and I, we never get to see you anymore. I know, it's so wrong. Sean and I were FaceTiming last night. We were like, we haven't seen,

we never get to talk to Jason anymore. It's been working. And even sometimes we do talk to him, and then Sean was like, yeah, no, but we never get to meet the real Jason anymore. You know what I mean? Well, he only goes out on Saturday nights. I was talking about you guys on my break

about the fact that you guys do talk all the time and we never talk. Well, you're working 15 hours a day. No, but even when I'm not. You hate a Zoom and you hate a Zoom. No, it's not about the Zoom. It's just, no, I'm just not, why am I not that kind of a friend

that like talks every day to his best friends? I'll tell you why. Because you're always working, and when you have downtime, you just wanna be by yourself, which I get. You guys are so good about, do you have like, I mean, I know, Will, you've got like a nightly chat with the great Josh Otlin.

Yeah. And probably with Sean P. Hayes. I talk to a lot of people pretty much on the reg. I talk to Sean, not every night. Short for regular listener. Short for regular. Once a week, probably. Twice a week, maybe.

I talk to Clay every other day. I talk to Eli. And Jason, I always text you first before we talk. But you know what's one of those things, you gotta also do it and it's like, I know. You and Sweet Pete Giles would be great best friends because you guys like spending a lot of time alone.

And you know. We've got a bunch of dolls with pins. You sent me a nice picture from your trip with that bucket, that sweet ass Sergio Zucchini bucket hat that I bought you last year. Yeah, and I showed you, it was at good use, you know. And don't you have a collection of puppets that you play with, Jason?

Yeah, they talk to me all the time. And you're also still really good friends with your gummies. Yeah, oh my God, I talk to them, they never speak to me, but I'm speaking to them all the time. Can we please just give, I think the kids usually say a shout out to, a holla or whatever to our new host.

And they might holla back, Youngin. Yeah. Of our podcast, Bad Dates, the new host Joel Kim Booster. He's hilarious. He is gonna be guiding us through all the legendary and insane true bad date stories, the amazing guest reveal, with all of their gory details you loved in season one.

Yeah, it sounds so natural when you say it like that. But no, this is our smart list media show called Bad Dates. We love this show. It was with Jamila Jamil, and now it's with Joel Kim Booster, and it's gonna be just as great. And everybody has bad dates, everybody can relate to them. Yeah, we can relate to them.

And so I... And JKB is gonna, by the way, my same initials, fun fact. He's gonna walk you through it. Yeah, so you can find new episodes anywhere you get your podcast. Because we all know the worst dates make the best stories. Ooh, that should be a line,

that should be a tagline on the show. Let's get some bumper stickers going. I'm really excited. I'm almost as excited about that as I am about my guest. My guest today. And you guys are gonna be excited too. Now first of all, man, this is nuts. Because this is one of those people that I have, and I don't want to embarrass him, and

he kind of knows that I don't know, but I super look up to him, which is not the most articulate thing I've ever said, but it is just it. I have been such a fan of what this guy does for so long, and there's an authenticity to who he is and how he does it that I've always just really responded to and frankly so have audiences around him. Millions. Well, I mean, look, he's been nominated for like 120 awards. He's won 70 of them and everything.

70? Yeah. What kind of awards? Like from Critics' Choice to Gotham Awards to Independent Spirit Awards, to MTV Movie Awards, to Satellite Awards, Saturn Awards, Teen Choice Awards, Film Critics Awards, Green Actors Awards, Prime Time Emmy Awards, Golden Globe Awards, and BAFTA Awards, and Academy Awards.

Christian Bale. The old school Academy Awards. He doesn't have 70 wins. I mean, he's good, that guy, Christian Bale, but he doesn't have 70. He doesn't have 70. This guy. This guy, you doesn't have 70 wins. I mean, he's good, that guy, but Christian Bale, but if he doesn't have 70, this guy. This guy, you don't remember him from his first television appearance, which was on Mr. Roger's Neighborhood,

way back in the way, in the day. You might remember him as co-starring with David Letterman on the Mary Tyler Moore hour. You're more likely to remember him from things like Mr. Mom, Gung Ho, Michael Keaton. But to me, he is my Batman. You guys, it's Michael Keaton.

Welcome to the show, Michael. You've got sunglasses on. Why do you have sunglasses on? Sorry. You forgot. Good morning. Because I'm pretentious. Forget about that whole authentic thing.

I had sunglasses on. I don't know. You're gonna wipe it out. Yeah. Well, this is interesting. Hello. Thanks. Hi, how are you?

Welcome. You know, the preamble. It's obnoxious, I know. No. It's too much. First of all, I was gonna be a smart ass, but after Will being so sweet, now I can't be. No, you can't.

Please, please be a smart ass. Oh, I can? Okay, yeah. Please, please do. I would think that if there's one area, one format, one show, one could be a smart ass, this would be. Yeah, it's half vital. Welcome, yeah. Where are we finding you?

Where's that pretty, pretty wall that looks like a cabin of some sort? This is, well, this is my home in Montana. Well, this is the cabin of the property because the other house is being rebuilt. And- Did it burn down? Not down, but see, see what, see smart ass?

I can't help it. You're gonna have to bear with me. Yeah, you threw something out there, and now it's hurtful. So yeah, and this little house was reassembled from up the valley or down the valley, up the valley many years ago, but that's where I am.

That's where I'm sitting. That's so nice. But you know, listen to the whole thing, the how you guys do this. I have so many questions. Sure, go ahead. Go ahead, hit us. Do you validate personal?

We do. It's stickers. It's one of your questions, why would anybody listen to you idiots? No, no, no. We can't figure it out, you know. Well, let me ask this. Yeah.

You all have either adapted or you always had it. You all now have like a radio voice. Did you always have this radio voice? We're learning from Will. Will makes millions with those pipes. Yeah, I did. Give him professional grade. Seriously, Jason, you've got kind of a calm,

groovy thing going, you know, like you're laid back. It's gummy induced. Yeah, well, however you get there, you know, like you're laid back. It's gummy induced. Yeah, well, however you get there, you got that thing, shaw-ish. Mine's just annoying in Chicago. No, yours is very witty. Okay, well there you go. I'm cutting you in a minute.

Here comes Will. And Will just kinda, you know, I didn't know, I swear to God this is true, when I would see those Reese's commercials, I'd say, that dude's funny. I swear to God I didn't know who it was. There's a few people out there I'm looking at right now, and I saw, I watched these commercials,

I saw a guy the other day. He's so, I don't know who that guy is. He's so funny and so good in it, and I was reminded of how hard it is to crack open, to have people see you, to find a spot, you know? And we've been fortunate. With just your voice, you can. Yeah, no, seriously. Okay, Sean, I find a spot, you know? And we... With just your voice each other. Yeah, no, seriously.

Okay, Sean, I have a question for you. Did you and I not, many, many years ago, you were already nodding, right? We met a long time ago because you were working for a... No, not for a long time. Yeah, I was saying many times. Don't embarrass him now. He's about to give you, he's just olive wrenching it

and then you cut him off with the fucking many times? What's wrong with you, Sean? He'll smile you right through the night. Jesus fuck. He'll smile you right through the night. Go ahead, sorry. That's right, that's his super power. You used to work for, am I wrong?

You used to work for a catering company or something. Is this true when you were getting started? The very first year I worked at a restaurant called Red and then part of that was to, you know, sometimes people would, oh, I'm doing a wedding so I do like, to make an extra 100 bucks, I would help out like. Yes.

Yeah, and it was, yeah. And I met you at a party, didn't I? That's right, yes. And I said, who's this funny guy? This guy's so witty. That was, that was. Let's hear this. That was like over 30 years ago.

What an impression. And also, but I kept meeting you over and over, and Michael, we can cut this if you'd like, so don't worry. And I kept meeting you over and over because you used to date Julie Bowen. For a minute, yeah, yeah, she's great. Yeah, and I used to be friends with Julie Bowen, and I would always running to add parties

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and and at that yeah that white cut it By the way, by the way, why cut it? But also, you know what you could say so that you don't have to kind of say and also we both know Julie Bowen You could have said that Sugar yeah, I am kind of flying Yeah, you know pop tart sugar. Yeah, I am kind of flying Jason's on a gummy. I'm on fire. I got fired from that job right Sean you ate into their profits Is that the way no Mike Michael with it wasn't that I think it was at? Who played goose in the in the original?

What's his name Anthony? Oh, yeah, it was it was at Anthony Edwards house, and he was having a wedding for somebody I don't know, but don't go deeper, because you already know a poor Julie in a bad spot. Michael, do you remember? Now Julie's in a bind. She's having to explain to somebody where she was. It was so easy just to say, yes, we did, that's what happened.

Yes, 70 years ago, somebody was saying, fucking Julie was, remember she wasn't around, it turns out she was hanging, Jesus. No, but I will say, every single time I ran into you, whether it was when I was around Julie or not, one of the nicest guys, always, always, always. Oh, well, thanks. Yeah, always, and super funny,

and allowed me to be funny in front of you. You were very generous. I like funny people. Michael, I don't know if you know this, too, our mutual friend is Courtney Cox from years ago, and a good friend of ours, and Jason was just on vacation with her, we were talking about, and I remember friend is Courtney Cox from years ago and a good friend of ours and Jason was just on vacation with her, we were talking about. And I remember saying to Courtney,

I used to be, this is like 10 years ago, I go, what's my uncle like? I used to flip out because I was such a fan of yours for so long. Oh yeah, still is, probably still is. And so what I wanna get into, and that's gonna get me to my first thing, which is two things.

Two movies that to me were like, and they're not underrated because they were big hits, but first of all, Mr. Mom to me was a genre changer, right? Nobody done a movie like that. You did it with such ease. And the great part was it wasn't putting down a stay at home parent. In fact, it was pumping it up. 100%. And it was so, to me, that was what was so interesting

about it, you know what I mean? Especially those were different days back then. But you did it in this way that kind of took that on and flipped it on its head. What was it like getting that, reading that script, getting that offer, deciding whether to do it, shooting it, all of it? I've, reading that script, getting that offer, deciding whether to do it, shooting it, all of it?

I've always loved that movie, man. So I'm really glad you brought this up. First of all, and then let's get this out of the way because I kind of hate this part. I'm a giant fan of all three of you guys. But here's why that's a really good question and I'm glad you asked it. Because you know, I'll sometimes when I'm doing,

I don't do a lot of them, but I'm doing an interview or being interviewed or something, I will actually volunteer Mr. Mom for a bunch of reasons. A, it was ahead of its time. And how it came to be, and it was John Hughes' first, yeah, I think it was the first script he sold. Wow. And then he became John Hughes. Yeah, John Hughes wrote it.

And I was sitting and he was pitching me, even didn't have to pitch it. You guys all will know this. When you're reading a script, a comedy script, and the Goodwins don't come around very often, and you laugh out loud by yourself, let's say, two, three, four times a script, you go, whoa, that's huge.

Am I right? That's huge. And you go, okay. That's the number too. It's only about two or three or four times, but it's like, that's amazing. It is amazing. And the average layman, let's say, wouldn't know that,

but that's how it works. So I remember saying, I remember actually one thing he did, and it was an area that I generally don't laugh or find funny, was the baby had diarrhea. And my head went back, I was in, my head went back so far, it hit the wall in the back. My head hit the wall, I thought, because it was how it was presented, how it was set up,

and where it came in the script, where he got me, where you were at that point. And I went, boom, right there, that thing kills me right now. So I sat with him, I said, listen to him, he was not without an ego and I liked him, but I said, you should direct this thing, you know how to make this movie. He said, no, I'm not gonna direct.

He was a Chicago ad guy. And so what I knew about it was, A, it was funny. And I also liked kind of the time. The reason I thought I couldn't do it was I looked like I was about 10 years old. And I thought, and then we had to kind of write that in because I thought, okay, let's say you married young. And how do we really believe this? Because as you all three will know, if you don't, it can be as outrageous, as funny as like Jim Carrey or the craziest guys are,

they set up their own reality, right? So once you, it's like Carson used to say, you buy the premise, you buy the joke. So if you set, you go, yeah, that's crazy what he's doing, but it's actually not crazy. In his world. In that, that's right, in that world. So I said, how do we believe this guy?

Because that's the only way this thing is gonna work. And there was a lot of rewriting on the set, I will say, between me and my then manager partner, Harry Columbia, and some other people. It was a great cast. And so what I dug about it was, A, it was funny. I liked playing a father because I liked being a father. I liked what it was about. And it was ahead of its time in that at the time, the US economy was not very good. And it was hard, you know, the unemployment was not great. And the idea of a woman going out to the workforce is crazy as it sounds.

And whenever we shot that 80 something. Eighty three. Eighty three was not that unusual, but it was fucking unusual to, by comparison. Right. And I like the, you know, I have three sisters and a mom. Most people who work for me are women. I didn't plan it that way, it's just how it is. So I like that whole setup and the premise, and I thought, okay, now how do we make,

now let's just make this funny. So it was already funny, but there were things, because the director, who was a talented guy, but he was not a comedy guy, we had to work on, let's say. And there was a lot of rewriting going on and as an example, the whole chainsaw thing came about on the morning because as we were getting ready to do it, there was no chainsaw scene.

There was no, That didn't exist. The great, late, great Martin Moe... Yeah, I was gonna say that. ...comes in and says, you know, he's taking Terry off. I have so much to say about this, because not enough credit is given to Terry Gahr. Well, I was gonna get... Oh, my God. I'm gonna get into Terry Gahr in a second, so keep going.

Okay, I'll finish. I'm sorry, going on too long. No, no, I love it. But so, that scene was one thing, right? But what I knew was, I said, but how does this guy feel? How insecure is he right now? And how emasculated is he right now? And Martin walks in just fucking cocksure, you know? Just beautifully played, like looking, just fucking beautifully played,

like looking so brilliantly arrogant, looking at me and I'm thinking, okay, what would this guy do when I, he's panicked, he's not ready for this. So I said to the prop guy, he'd get me like, I don't know, I'd like he's pretending he's working on the house, you know, like tools or something,

and he shows me a chains cycle. I go, yes. And I said, run down, you have any of those goggles? And I go, yeah, he goes and gets the goggles. And then we just played it from there. Obviously insecure, obviously scared to death. Overcompensating. Overcompensating out of his ass. And then the 220 line was Martin's.

It was Martin's line. What was the line again? I said, yeah, I'm probably going to rewire the whole thing. And that was the end of that. And Martin said, you know what you should say? Martin says something like, how are you going to wire it? And I go, I don't know. He says, you should say 220, 221, whatever it takes.

That's Martin Moll's line. I keep telling people that. That was not me. And by the way, the movie you did before that Night Shift, I watched over and over and over. Oh my God. I loved that movie. And the one line that stuck out in my head, of course,

is when you're like, we could just feed the tuna, the mayonnaise, so you don't have to get it open. And as a kid I was like, that's such a genius idea. Just feed the tuna fish. The mayonnaise. That's such a genius idea. You know, Willie, now that I was just listening to Michael talk, it strikes me that I'll bet you

Michael Keaton is an enormous influence on your style. I mean, you actually remind me of one another. That's a compliment to me, not to him. That's a compliment, you're a compliment to me. Yeah, for sure. By, you know what I mean? Unintentionally, sorry.

I know, I know, because yeah, and I meant it when I said it is huge influence, and I wanna get into, because then there were so many other films too that I thought I deserved a lot of attendance one of them being clean and sober which I think is a Phenomenal film not just because I could relate To what what he went through, but I just think it's a great with the great MM at Walsh I mean, there's just some amazing moments in that film but I do want to talk about Terry Gar for one second because I also loved Terry Gar.

And what was that like? I mean, what an unbelievable talent, am I right? The spirit. Oh man. And who, you know, you look at all the really great, funny women, there's so many now, and there were kind of relatively speaking, so few then. But they're really great.

Well they didn't write the great parts of them back then, right? No, no. And you know, look at Terry, man. She had everything. She still has everything. She's so sweet. I just love her.

I think Catherine Hahn is like a modern day Tony Gardner. Totally. Yeah. And you look at, you know, she's witty and funny and feminine and masculine and all that stuff and just could, you know, just had it, you know, and has it and yeah, and helped me, you know,

like you guys know, you know, you can't do it on your own, you know, you need somebody to set you up. For sure. We'll be right back. And now back to the show. But Michael, your ability to find material or material find you and casts and directors that find you

and you find like, your career is just like, I don't, and I don't wanna embarrass you, but like Willie said, but your ability to jump from comedy to drama so seamlessly for so long, your run, your relevancy, is just, it's been going for so long and continuing on this great escalating pitch that I hope you're as proud of as you deserve to be because you're just an incredible actor

that knows how to make people laugh when you're playing a part and make people cry. Like you're not a comic, you're not a, you know, like, so I just, I, can you talk a little bit about how, I wanna ask you to explain how you see yourself, but how do you, what attracts you to certain stuff? What's your goal, you know? Yeah, well, I will speak about it,

but I kinda wanna stop, because that's just too good. I'll leave it at that. Well, thank you, first of all. Just can't label you, you know, and that takes a lot of fun. Yeah, okay, well, let's start with that. So first of all, let's thank good fortune and all that.

I don't believe in luck, I've never believed in luck, but I believe in good fortune. I do, I say that, dude, I literally say the same. Really? Yes. Because it's true. It's true. I say I'm fortunate, I'm not lucky, I'm fortunate.

No man, you know why? You earned what you, all three, a lot of us, we all earned it. We worked our asses off to do it all three, a lot of us, we all earned it. We worked our asses off to direct. There's a lot of talented people out there that luck plays a huge part of it because if everybody who was talented got the jobs, there wouldn't be any left.

I mean, luck plays a big part of it, so we're all appreciative of that. But I'm grateful, I'm grateful, grateful. So there was the only plan, and by the way, I'm breathing rarefied air right now. I realize that there's, I don't know how many other guys, or I saw Jeff the other day at Bridges, who lives over the mountain range here.

Another one, exactly like that. Yeah, he, you know, I was saying, you know, there's not many of us doing this, and I wanna keep doing it, but I wanna keep doing it. I always wanted to do it how I wanted to do it. I know that sounds arrogant and kind of selfish, but I just knew I'd be happiest that way. And so every time I had a television show

that got canceled, which was two of them, three of them, I guess, I could not tell you how happy I was because I felt freer to move on to the next thing. So if I had a strategy, and I don't know that it was a strategy, it was only this. Right after night shift, there were some things offered to me. And when I think back, I go, wow, that took a fairly sizable set of balls. I said, no, I knew I wanted to do the Mr.

Mr. Mom, but then there are a couple others that I thought, I don't know, like all three of you I'm sure, I would think, you say, but I really have a pretty big imagination and I'm curious about a lot of things and I'd like to play other things, I'd like to explore other things, I'd like to see, and if it doesn't work, then I know at least I have this for a few years. I can maybe grind out five, six, eight years of me being that guy. And I thought, but I think what will happen is people are going to get very bored very quickly with this kind of guy they saw in night shift, etc. And so I said, Well, then let me lay down something early and see if that works, because that will potentially open up a wider

range for me. And I don't know if this is gonna do it. But that was the only conscious thing. The other the other is you just trust your gut. And so I made certain decisions early on, I was told,'t do Clean and Sober, don't do Pacific Heights, don't do a lot of things. And I said, yeah, but I wanna do those things and I wanna lay it down. So I passed up certain movies that turned out to be great movies

and I wanna talk about them, but they turned out to be great things. And I probably in retrospect, one or two of those probably should have, but I was fearful that, look, I always feel like, and this is my own, I'm sorry, need to talk to somebody about this, because I always feel, man, if I'm in two movies a year,

people are gonna go, enough already, we are so friggin' sick of you, you know, we just, like enough. And so I had that and that's not a healthy thing. But I just wanted to lay down the potential possibility that, well, wait a minute now, I don't know what to do with him. And the risk is, as you guys know,

well, that could be dangerous. And I just rolled the dice, because I always bet on me, don't ask me why, but I do. But you also had this great combination between leading man and character actor. That's what I, for me, just as a consumer of you, a fan, you never really took the junk food, the celebrity stuff. You always were just playing an actor.

You were either a character actor or a leading man and sort of this great ratio between both and comedy and drama. And then for my money, like this incredible validation in Birdman, at a moment where a filmmaker and an actor come together in this incredible little recipe between the two that you wouldn't normally put together. And then, like, I don't know,

there's been a few combinations like that that was just so exciting to see that combination. And then, of course, the film itself and the concept of the film as well. Just everything coming together and just a rocket ship. And it was so exciting for me to see. Just that the story in the community and then also just the film itself.

Well, but also Michael, like, you know, as Jason sort of said, you kind of defied genre in that you couldn't be put in a thing. You got to be a movie star on your own terms. You got to kind of... You know, in a time where there really aren't really movie stars in that way anymore. I mean, there are, but it's different. But you were in like the height of the movie star era,

and yet you were able to kind of... Think about it in that year, you were talking about doing stuff you wanted to do. In 1988, you did Beetlejuice and Clean and Sober. Now you wanna talk about two movies on different ends of the spectrum, okay? And then the next year, you did the first film, and we're gonna get into Batman in a second, because it's the one thing that I feel

a real kinship with you about. But you were part of a lot of firsts, like Will's kinda saying, like Mr. Mom, nobody was doing a comedy like that, you were the first one to do a comedy kinda like that. And then Beetlejuice, and then Batman, like you were the first to do a lot of things, is that something you look for, like in scripts?

Well I was gonna say, so you do that, in that one year you do Beetlejuice in Clean and Sober, what was that year like for you? And it- You made your agent look fantastic that year. for you? And it- Your agent must've, you made your agent look fantastic that year. Yeah. You know?

Yeah, exactly. And meanwhile, that's right, and at the time, that's not what happened, as you guys know, it didn't happen that way. Tim sought me out, because we had, he sought me, he said that I'd like to talk to that guy. And so, yeah, that, you know, and I will also credit Elvis Mitchell, whom I'm actually going to speak with later. And Elvis ended up working for me and my partner Harry

for a couple of years because we read this guy, we thought he was, we just dug what he was about and liked him. And he worked for us for a minute. And I credit Elvis, I don't think there was, I don't know what the award was. It And I credit Elvis, I don't think there was, I don't know what the award was, it was either New York, I don't know what it was, New York Film Critics Award, there was something, they didn't have an event, and Elvis kind of said, excuse me,

what Will just said basically, and then they said, okay, sure, we'll give it to him, and then there was, I have somewhere a piece of paper or something but That didn't come via that came from Tim asking about me about me wanting to meet me about beer juice through David Geffen and The clean and sober thing came and that was another thing that people said you don't wanna you don't want to do that

That's not my agent literally at the time said I don't't want to do that. My agent literally at the time said, I don't think you should do that. And I said, yeah, I'm pretty sure I should, just because I want to. This is a really well-written script. You guys know this. I mean, it's hard to redefine something that's, the writing will drive everything ultimately right now, whether it comes together, that's another story.

But so, I'll run through this. I'm sorry. And so that in one year, I didn't plan any of that. That just happened. I just said, man, this guy, Tim Burton, he's something I just I don't know what he is. I just know for sure he's something. And I, when he tried to explain to me, I said, they said, what do you think I said, I don't know what it is. I don't know what I don't understand that. And I like that guy. And he said, he wants to talk to you. Will you just give me another one? I go, Yeah, all right. I'll go meet him again. And I go talk to him. And I

said, Yeah, well, I'm still the same. I still don't understand. He I say this about Tim, who I freaking love. I would say in his life, he is a declarative sentence with a subject, a verb, and then a period at the end. I'd say he's completed maybe eight, maybe eight declarative simple sentences. He just doesn't think like that.

He's not that guy, you know? And so I meet him and I go, okay, I'm getting closer. Then he said two things to me and I went, all right, I think this guy's worth it. So I said, give me a minute. And I went home and I started thinking about it and he said a couple things and I asked for wardrobe from every period of time to go to my house. I was renting this house, the time was empty, I didn't know

furniture and I just started hand picking stuff and then I, there's something about that I found kind of spooky and creepy about like bad teeth and a semi-broken nose and a walk and a... And I said, what about... And I just started going to work and I said, you know what, there's something about this guy, I really dig him, fuck it, I don't know, I don't know, does this work? And so that happened, and then Clean It Sober was just another script, it wasn't like I said... Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Okay. The character of Beelgeuse, first of all, half the movie you're in like old timey prison garb. Right. And you've got this fucking, you've got like mascara on that covers half your face. And your hair is sticking up and you've got this voice and you go, yeah, yeah, yeah, say where you are. Yeah, it's so good. And you fucking, and I'm like, you want to talk about taking a big fucking swing

Oh, yeah, I mean, how do you go? How do you show up day one? Are they like, okay guys, let's rehearse All right, we're gonna block the scene. I'm like and you come I go Say it's your day. Yeah What the fuck is good? What's this guy doing? I mean, it's a lot and it fucking you nail you drilled, you drilled it in a way that you couldn't even. Did you preview that for Tim before the first rehearsal and the first day? No, that's very insightful, Will, because you're right. That's what, no, I didn't, and that was the beauty of,

and is the beauty of working with him. You're really just making stuff. Like, let's go make stuff, you know? And so, we talked, and no one was paying attention. The budget was too small, and no one was paying attention. The budget was small and no one was paying attention. And we were down in Raleigh Studios. And I said, okay, I don't know. Here's what's weird about this.

Think of this. We never tested it. We never tested it. I said, here's what I wanna do. It's like he stuck his finger in a thing, he starts here and he goes up from there. It's never like, there's no arc. Yeah, right, right.

He just goes from 10 to 15. Right, right. And it never, and it never, and I said, and I don't know why, I don't have an actor's explanation for any of that shit. Like the great thing about this thing is you never could say my character wouldn't do that. Right, right, right.

The rule, there are no rules. There are no rules. The freedom was unbelievable. So Will, that's insightful because I go, Tim had the suit, Tim had the eyes, Tim had the pale makeup, and he said something to me about he's from all different. He appears out of time, you know, in the 20s and the 18s. There's no he's not connected at any time or anything.

He might go underground for years until he's released. So I said, underground, I said, how about mold? Let's do some mold up the face, you know? And then and then I said, OK, you know, the hair is like it has to Stick all the way out and but the striped suit was Tim's vision. He started showing me pictures of all his stuff and so on that day When I showed up I went I don't know Here we go. Right and as soon as I walk the first scene you can see him

Here we go. And as soon as I walk in the first scene, you can see him, his eyes get big and he lights up and he goes, yes. And then, you know, it's the ultimate yes and, because he'd go, oh, I didn't know we were gonna do that. Hold on a minute, if you're gonna do that, let me show you something. See when you go up there, this is what that's gonna,

he had to explain to me what was gonna happen. And I went, oh, I think I get it. Because of the visual effects? Yeah, because of the visual effects. Would happen later, yeah? Yes, yes, yes. And also. Fuck man, dude, you're out on,

I love this so much. Out on a ledge. I love the idea that you're out on a fucking ledge and you don't know where you're fucking going. That to me is my- And then give a shit. And don't get, that's my fucking dream come true, man. I know, I know.

It's so fun to talk to you guys about this because there's there's I'm with three people who know Kind of know what I'm talking about, but then you land it into the then you go to clean and sober Exactly, which is the most like no tricks. No makeup. No wardrobe It's just people not hiding being raw and like I'm being honest Mike Tyson walking in with trunks and two box and gloves Yeah How many people over the years have come up to you and told you that clean and sober had a profound effect on their life? and like, I'm being honest. It's Mike Tyson walking in with trunks and two box of gloves. How many people over the years have come up to you

and told you that clean and sober had a profound effect on their life? Lots, and boy, that means something to me. You know, so I say this, I don't care what people think. I'm so blessed that I get to do some things that every once in a while, that'll happen. How many people have that job?

You know, a lot of people would like that job. I am that job. That's why I did worth. Yeah, that's why I did you know my life You know my life and you go you got to do these things if you got the heartbreaker You know, you know, you've been given this this Given this thing, you know, yeah, I earned it but I've been also given it So so if you can do throw everybody a solid fucking do it, you know've been also given it. So if you can do, throw everybody a solid, fucking do it, you know? And then go make some money.

So you're speaking of which, speaking of making money, you go in 1989, you once again team up with Tim Burton and you do Batman. Yeah. And that is the you do Batman. Yeah. And that is the fucking game changer. Yeah. That's the game changer of game changer. And I mean, in a lot of ways,

you doing that allowed me to make some money. Yeah. So. Oh yeah. All right. So I guess I kind of fucking owe you, dude. A little bit. A little bit. A little bit. A little bit. A little bit.

A little bit. A little bit. A little bit. You did the first I Am Batman. By the way, I'll give you my business manager's address. Just Venmo. Just do Venmo. Yeah, just do Venmo.

Just straight Venmo. And Mike, I just got out of high school when that came out, when Batman came out, and I was like, wait, the guy from Night Shift that I've seen a million times in Mr. Mob, he's Batman? Like, and then I didn't- Take the look of your face again. No, but wait, hang on, wait for it.

And then you saw, I even saw the trailer, I was like, oh my God, I can't, I mean, nailed it in the trailer. I remember seeing the poster for it. I was like, oh my God. Do you remember seeing the poster, just the symbol of the Batman, and I was like, what? I was like, what the fuck is this?

So I'm about to give some credit to Tim for going, yeah, that guy. And people went, what are you, out of your mind? And he went, no, that guy. So I don't think enough credit has been given to him. Me, I went, we had the meeting, he and I sat, he said, take this home and read it, tell me what you think, and I remember where I was sitting,

where the window was, and he and I were talking, and I said, well, so here's what I think, but nobody's gonna do that. And he went, that's exactly right. And so he had to go to them and say, no, that guy, and to his credit, boy, you know, he changed everything. He changed everything. I could talk.

I mean, Marvel exists. All of it exists because of that movie dude. Yeah, yeah. A lot of people made a lot of money off me and Tim and Jack. Sean has nutted over a thousand times to Marvel movies because of that movie. Uh-huh, yeah.

Right, a thousand nuts. There's that. Yeah, there's that. Yeah, you can't put a price on that. No, you can't put a price on that. But it did, it launched the, you know, and ever since then we've all been fucking under the tyranny of IP, but you know,

but you did start that. And it was, I stole that from somebody. But it's true, but you guys started it, you and Tim Burton, but you is the face, Tim is incredible obviously, like you said. Well and you kind of invented the whole, like Will just said, like the whole thing. Like the tone and the feel and the look and the everything. Yeah, there was humor to it, but it was also serious and there was action and it was dark.

Yeah. But you know, Will, there was very little humor in it. And, you know, maybe we can't No, but you had moments though, as Bruce Wayne. No, I mean in the original script, in the original script. Oh, really? Yes. And so, you know, maybe it's just an instinct But but there were scenes because even that man that pressure was on Tim's so big Pressure was on all of us. Mm-hmm, and you felt it every day, you know Studio people flying it, you know, because this was a big swing for every, but there wasn't, and I don't know if it's the instinct or not, you know, a gut feeling saying, well, wait a minute, you know, a lot of this kind of darkness, I mean, maybe, maybe, maybe not

so much. So so as an example, in that scene where the big long table where Vicki Vale comes over, and I'm having date and I'm so nervous, you know, and I go, do I tell her do I not tell her? I can't let her know, but I really like this woman and she's sitting there and she asked me about the room and I said, Tim, you know, it would be funny. And there were a couple of these moments. I said, you know, if he goes, yeah, yeah, yeah,

and then he realizes, I don't think I've ever been in this room before, you know what I mean? Which says everything about the characters, you know? You go, who's this lonely guy? He's, you know, rambling around the house. Yeah, yeah. It's great, sort of like high-low of him. Yeah, I love that kind of stuff,

that kind of awareness of it, and not taking himself too seriously really in that moment, because there's a way that that could come across as a dick, and it wasn't, you got it. It all fell within the context of a guy who was really rich but his parents were murdered, but all that stuff, right? Yeah, and kind of a weird dude, you know, like a weird dude.

Very weird dude. And you know, but you, what was it like when that movie came out and it was, as you said, it was a big swing for everybody, big swing for you and your career, big swing for Tim Burton, big swing for the studio, they put a big swing for Tim Burton, a big swing for the studio, they put a lot of money into it, the books have been written about this movie and how it got made, et cetera.

And when that movie comes out and it's a fucking smash hit, how many high fives, did you have to bandage your hand from the high fives? Or was it the opposite? Was it, oh, this is gonna be a level of exposure and responsibility now that could change things and it might not be comfortable? More that.

Jason, Jason immediately looks at the negative. Or was it that? Now I'm obligated to go and say thank people for paying money. I have junkets I have to go to. Now all of a sudden, now I've gotta talk to my business manager. It's good news, is it good news?

It's good news for you. Now did you guys know, did you guys know about the chemistry would work like Jason Brink is, you know, he's neat, everyone's trying to do what he just did. Did you guys go, oh fuck, that's why we hired the guy. Just bring in a dork. That's why we, yeah, it's bring him in. Well we've had the good fortune, guys, I'm gonna say of being friends for 20 years.

So we knew. Don't touch it. Yeah, we have a good little dance with these guys. It's like the guys on TBS, you know, Charles Barkley and those guys. Someone just needs to say to them, don't touch it. Don't touch it, just don't mess with it. I love those guys.

Yeah. We'll be right back. And now back to the show. But did you, you must have, was it just, was it not what Jason was saying? Did you feel an obligation? No, I was going there, I'd like that, actually. Yeah, you were thinking about the deal

you already struck for the sequel. No, you woke up and you're like, did you buy a Ferrari? What the fuck? Did you do that? Got a tattoo a Batman tattoo That's true, you know, I actually did investigate getting a Ferrari one time. Yes, I actually did And I and I remember, I'm too lazy for the amount of work and effort I'm gonna have to put into this.

I'm just too lazy. You mean the clutch and the stick, right? Yeah, well, not that so much, but like, where do I, do I have to be careful? Where can I really drive it? Is this really worth it? I'm blessed that I don't need a lot of stuff because I don't have,

I'm just lucky that I don't need a lot of stuff. I'm just not so cool. I I don't need a lot of stuff. You know, I'm not so cool. I just don't have an interest in it. I love that you're thinking through the practicality of a Ferrari. Yeah, I know. I'm going, well, you can't valet it. Like, what do you do? Is it good on ice?

All of a sudden, I'm the least interesting, most unfun guy. Oh, I don't know if this is practical. I'm going to put my clubs. There's no backseat. Oh, I don't know if this is practical You must have been elated and it must have felt like a good vindicated now look you'd had a lot of success before but This was like a different. This was a different thing. I bet I'd let myself enjoy it. It was global You let yourself enjoy it. Yeah, and and also what Jason? Called the downer. Let's just refer to it. No, and a little bit of that, say, whoa, this is a lot.

You know, it's not, I don't love this kind of stuff. Yeah, and sometimes knowing you, knowing who you are now and all your success with all of the unbelievable, your resume is just one of the most impressive ever. It really is. It's just incredible. I always, you know, you don't think about, oh, that guy probably had, he had an audition.

Like, I just see you as a movie star, but when you're younger, you had an audition and start out, you know, just like all the rest of us. And it's hard to imagine you walking into a room. What made you, didn't you grow up in, where did you grow up? Right outside of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. And so what got you to LA? Like, what made you, didn't you grow up in, where did you grow up? Right outside of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. And so what got you to LA?

Like what made you wanna do it? Well, boy, we could go, let me make it. We have 10 minutes left. Okay. Okay. For this one answer. Okay. Okay, right.

Yeah, I just should've a couple of times, what's your explanation? No, no. I'm kidding, I'm totally, we just should have a couple of times. What's your next question? No, no. I'm kidding. We have an hour. Whatever you want. I was this kid who started to get very interested in, I thought, could a person do this? And yeah, because I come from so not that background except my funny family, my funny

brothers and sisters, and a big family and youngest. So there's that, right? So when I went to school, I was curious because my friends and I were, the guys I hung with tightly, and some young women at the time, were funny, and I'd like to be around them, and I knew what my taste was in terms of, and so I was not a theater kid,

however, I did take a couple theater classes, so I was clearly curious about this and I was not very good, I don't think. I auditioned for a play, I got a little role in a play in school, didn't really do anything for me. And then I dropped out of school to make some money to go back to school. And in the interim, I was doing this play in Pittsburgh, Sticks and Bones, and at the same time working at the PBS station where I do everything and everything.

And at the same time while I was in school, I was really into The Lampoon, and I was really into everything funny. And I was just, and so I started writing, and I thought, I don't know if I can even do this other thing if I ever try it, maybe I could write this. You're just a kid trying to figure things out, right?? Yeah, so I said well, I'm kind of liking this I just trusted myself and I said, you know what?

This is this is either gonna happen or not happen. So I started to go to New York Where I was about to move and at the last minute I went to California thinking I'd only stay there for a summer and I was writing and I started performing standup and doing a play and the standup thing worked in New York like that off the bat. I mean, when I say worked, it didn't work. It worked in that I got asked back the first time I showed up and that's a big deal.

So you did that and I went, I really love this because it was theater. To get to the auditioning part, so now I'm gonna go to California and I went I really love this because it was theater. To get to the auditioning part, so now I go to California and I'm gonna do this real fast and I'm sleeping on floors like everybody else and crashing with buddies and working in restaurants and doing all the things, parking cars, doing everything everybody does. The thing that turned it around in terms of the audition process was I was an okay auditioner but what and I tell when young people ask me,

I tell them this all the time, forget I want, I want, I need, forget, throw that out, you're fucked. You have the job, the job is for the next 15 minutes, you're at work. The audition is the job, that's the gig. So you got to go to work today for 15 minutes. You know, it's excruciating, it's a horrible setup.

There's nothing good about it, but that was the, once I said, I'm not gonna look at this like, I gotta get this, I turned the corner where I said, you know what, man, I felt pretty good today about what I did, so I'm just gonna look at it like, at 3.30, out at MTM Studios or wherever I was gonna be. Yeah, I'm going, at Radford, I'm going gonna look at it like at 3.30 out at MTM studios or wherever I was gonna be. Radford, yeah.

Yeah, I'm going to Radford. I'm going to work. And so I thought, yep, get ready to go to work. What a great approach. My job only lasted 20 minutes and then I went to my regular job and I said, I don't know, fuck it, Graham. Freed me up, totally freed me up.

Of course it did and I like the idea of also telling that to young actors because people, they ask me for advice all the time, and I always say, you know, fuck off. So now I have something that I can say I came up with. Get that camera out of my face. Who the fuck, who gave you, my parents know your parents, shut the fuck. No, but that is such great advice.

You know, I think the other thing is, it kind of falls in the same line of like, once you realize, once you get older and you've done a bit more in doing what we do, you start to, and you get to the other side and you have a chance to direct JB and produce stuff and whatever, you realize that they are looking to solve a problem, right? That they want somebody to come in.

They want, what you don't know as a young actor is- They're on your side. They're on your side. They want you to get this job. Because they- They got another character to cast. Yeah, because once I figured that out, and I was like, and I remember casting something

with Mitch and being like, and people coming in and going, oh fuck, I hope this dude's good, man. And I used to think that they're like, oh, show me. No, we were like, fuck it, this guy's great. Yeah, I I used to think that they're like, oh, show me, no. We were like, fuck it, this guy's great. Yeah, I wanna check the box. I wanna check that box. Yeah, but sure, you guys are actors,

so you're sympathetic. You know what that feels like, right? So, yeah, you don't want something, there's no merit in watching somebody go down. Oh, it's the worst. No, there's no merit, too. Oh, it's the worst. It's the fucking worst feeling. Wait, I wanna talk about, because you know,

I wanted to do a second. But you did, I'm sorry, I was just gonna say, because he was just talking about the auditioning shot, if you don't mind, just one second. Oh, yeah. Made me think of another subject. No, I'm just kidding. Do you?

Do you? Do you? No, while we're on the subject, is that, and you were talking about this other, is that, and you were talking about MCM, you did, I wasn't kidding in my intro, you were on that two different iterations of the Mary Tyler, one called Mary, and the other called him Mary.

Really? Mary Tyler Moore Hour, is that what it was called? Yeah, yeah. With Dave Letterman. With Letterman. Wait, what? Letterman bailed after the first one, yeah. I stuck around.

That's so funny. And they were in the fucking cast together. I didn't know that. In 1978, Mike, was that right? Wait, did you work with Jimmy Burroughs? Jimmy Burroughs, wait, Jimmy Burroughs directed- He directed Mary Tyler March. Wait, Jason, you and I,

you know one of my favorite jobs ever? I always really liked Gary Goldberg. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I always really liked him, good guy, and his wife, I remember Diana. Courtney actually was just singing his praises two days ago at the same time she was singing yours. Huh, well he gave me this gig that was one of my favorite,

I'll talk to you about that MTM thing, but one of my favorite things I ever did was this character I did on... Tony Randall had a show for a minute. He had a couple of shows, I guess. Many shows, probably. But he had a thing called the Tony Randall Show, and Gary Goldberg hired me because he had seen me do something. I think he gave me the job. I might have auditioned.

But at night school, it was called Ed's night school I think and Tony Randall taught law at a night school and I played this kind of dude you know and you know like kind of little dense which is always fun and hard to play like playing stupid as so well has no problem playing no it's my fucking it's right out of. That's your sweet spot. Anyway, so I played this thing and as an aside, I learned as much about comedy from watching Tony Randall because he would kind of direct

because he knew more than anybody anyway. And his precision was so, and I was about, like I thought, no man, you know, freewheeling. His precision was so, and I was about, like I thought, no man, you know, freewheeling, his precision was so impressive that I remember going, whoa, pay attention to that. You know, where, you know, where and the how and the, you know, it was just really an education. So yeah, when I was, when I was doing that and I apparently have forgotten the question, but Mary Tellermore, so then that then that led to all that other stuff. So Letterman bailed after the first,

we all thought it was gonna be a little something, and she was wonderful lady, really liked her. And the guys who were part of that group, who was Jay Tarsus and Tom, those guys, they were part of it. So we went, well, their pedigree's really good. And it wasn't quite what we thought it would be. And Dave bailed, and I stuck around for the second iteration,

which was so fun, man. I had a little, I could afford a Honda, a little Honda Civic. And I could, I remember driving to work down to MTM Studios thinking, there's no way this could get better. There's no way my life could get better than this. And I was making, you remember that?

I mean, you go, look what you're making, and it wasn't much, and you go, are you kidding me? I have a little apartment that's relatively clean. You know, I got a car. Oh man, it's so fucking great. You just hit something, that sweet spot of that, you guys know too, like when you get that first gig where you go like, I'm fucking doing this.

I'm doing this. And I'm getting paid and I'm doing this. And I remember the first year of Will and Grace, I was 27 years old, I was like, oh, I'll get fired next week, I'm sure. Sure, right, but it doesn't matter at the time. You go for it. You were on will and grace.

That's what it is. Michael, I wanna go back to the Beetlejuice 2. Yeah, looks incredible. When you got, yeah, it looks amazing. When you got the, when you said yes to doing that, were you like, oh man, and the first day in the makeup trailer, you're like, why did I put this,

I gotta put, why did I say yes? I gotta put the wig on, I gotta put the fucking did I put this, I gotta put the wig on, I gotta put the fucking dirt on my face, I gotta put the black circles, or you're like, no, this is awesome. It was, no, it was the second, it was like, this is awesome, because you have to understand, this is a long time in the making, but not so as you'd know it, right?

Yeah, because everybody I knew for years were like, why don't they do a sequel, why don't they do a sequel, so finally it's here? Because you can't recreate what we made. You can't write it. Imagine trying to write it when a lot of the writing just happened, you know? It wasn't on the page so much,

even though some of it was and some was terrific and the world was terrific. You go, do that again. You go, it doesn't work like that. Even in the most well-written, you know, you could take Larry Gelbord or Neil Simon or any of the brilliant writers and try to duplicate, try to duplicate Tootsie.

It would have never, you couldn't do it again. So imagine trying to do that. So obviously that we were never gonna do it. Then for years I thought, don't touch that. Leave that alone, man. That's a little piece. You just leave that alone, Don't touch it, but I liked it so much and Tim and I Worked so well together and I liked him so much that every once I would go What do you think and the answer was that and then it started getting more interesting to me?

And I suggest that I'd like to do that again then at that time passed and then I thought it was done. So when it came around again, we'd see scripts now and then, and they just didn't work. And then these guys kind of got it, and went, whoa, this could be good. So Tim started talking to me about it. He had to finish something.

And so to answer your question, then you say, okay, I'm in. I had done a bunch, I direct this movie, and I act in another movie and another one and I was a little tired and I thought I would like another two months just to chill and kind of ramp it up and I didn't get it and I thought, fuck it, let's go do it. So we went to go make it and as I'm sitting in that makeup trailer that you mentioned, I remember going, this is really fun and I I'm really excited, and I'm nervous,

because I go, can you pull this off again? And can you do it? Because don't do it if you don't look stupid, and not just for me, don't fuck this thing up, you know? And so what hit me was I was sitting in the makeup trailer, going, yeah, here we go, that's right, and trying to explain to the woman, nah, it's got to, not quite, you know, we go, that's right, and trying to explain to the woman, nah, it's gotta, not quite, you know,

talking her through that. And then we were getting there and getting ready to do it and about three days in, I went, there's something wrong and I don't know what's wrong. There's something off. It wasn't horrible, I just... Justin Theroux. It's Justin Theroux.

He comes in without any sleeves on. He's so funny in this, dude, he's so funny in this. I don't buy it. Yeah. We'll wait and see. There's something wrong. I so funny in this. I don't buy it. We'll wait and see. I'll be the judge, I'll be the judge. All right, so listen to this. So I'm sitting there, I go, I don't know what this is,

and I'm sitting in the makeup trailer, and I'm going, yeah, this is fun, I'm having fun, but what is bugging me? And I looked in the mirror, and I went, I got it, I know what it is. And I don't know about you guys, but I don't look at makeup anymore. I should go check more often in the monitor. I know I've made huge errors, but I don't look

at things anymore, just go do it and I go home. I looked in the mirror and I went, I got it, I know what it is. This thing we created came out of nowhere. It just came out of this note. When I looked in the mirror, I saw toys. I went, this is fucked up. I saw, you know what I mean?

I saw little Beetlejuice toys. It looked like, you know what I mean? It looked like keychains and it looked like mugs. The commercial part of it that it had become. All the merch. Yeah, and it wasn't that that's a bad thing. It It was oh that perception is yeah, we've seen them because we've seen it on t-shirts We've seen I go did you change the look at all? No, that's interesting. I didn't I went a little bit Yeah, there was something with the hair that wasn't working

I went now that's that never really looked exactly like that and you're trying to like and then you go Get that whatever it takes to get that out of your brain, just go back to what made you even think of this friggin' thing. It's a derivative, it's based on an impression. I remember feeling that way with writers on who would go, all of a sudden you'd read a script and they'd go and they'd have your character

do something in a way. Oh, they want me to do it basically because they saw me do this in other times, but they don't realize that in other times, my character did that because it was organic to what was happening. Now they just want to see the trick. They don't want to see what led up to the trick.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean? And you'll never do it as well. Yeah, you'll never do it as well. How did you fix that, Michael? How did you make a friend of the- Psychologically, you had to go wipe that out of your brain, take it out of your brain.

Find a new version of them, yeah? Yeah, no, you know, when you go on set, go what was the thing originally? What was this thing originally? Just go be that again. Make it yours again. Yeah, make it yours again. How did we come up with this crazy thing?

And what was hard about that was there were certain things in this, look man, I'm on record saying how good this thing is. I'm not gonna go on and on. It's so good. But when I go on the set, there were things in the script, shows you how smart I am,

that I remember reading the script, go, ooh, this could work. I go, I don't know about that. Tim likes that idea. I don't think that idea's good. Three of them. I was wrong on all three. I was wrong about, I was dead wrong. When I saw it, I don't think that idea's good. Three of them. I was wrong on all three. I was wrong about, I was dead wrong.

When I saw it, I went. He's just a remarkable filmmaker. I mean, the thing, he's never done anything easy. Not once. No, no. Edward Scissorhands, you know? Yeah. Incredible.

His degree of difficulty that he takes on and just drills it every single time. I don't feel like- Except for Carol Nail Clipper feet. Do you think- Which was underrated, but. So do you guys do, so you do this and like you've gone on the record saying

it's gonna be great. I mean that is a lot of pressure, right? Yeah. And you have this thing, this iconic thing that you guys create and you're like, I'm thing that you guys create, and you're like, I'm sure when you're reading it or you're doing it, you're thinking like, fuck man, if we don't drill this, we got a target on our fucking back.

People are gonna come for us. Yeah, honestly, I didn't know like. But it's team sports, right? You don't really take, do you take it on individually? No, right? I mean, don't you sort of, do you get that sense when you're working on something that we're all kind of rowing in the same direction

and that it's not really on you? Because you- If you're healthy, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Do you find yourself in that position as often as you want to, mentally? Good question. Yeah, mostly, I think.

I think there's a part of me, I know I'm not saying I'm not being humble here, there's a part of me that's just plain, mostly I think. I think there's a part of me, I know I'm not being humble here, there's a part of me that's just plain stupid, I think. There's a part of me that just goes, I don't know, I don't think of some of these things that other people think, and I don't know what that comes from, but I just don't. Sometimes I do, and I certainly was nervous

about going back into it, only to say, can I do this? Not just do it and get through it, but go, can you get there? Because it's deserving of you being good. You need to be good. And in terms of what me talking about, I'll tell you, when I say I don't care

what anybody else thinks of it, I'm willing to say what I think about it because this is just how I feel about it. There's movies I've seen and you guys have seen that people have hated and I went, not me, I love this movie. Or other movies where you go, I don't get what people are raving about.

Me, I don't care, every person I've ever run into for the rest of my life could say, boy, that second Beater News really sucked. I'd go, not to me. I mean, it has so many elements. It's so beautiful, first of all, physically. And you kind of care. And I'm telling you, every fucking person is funny in this.

I mean, Justin is funny. Catherine is funnier than she was in the first one. And just for the audience, it is a biopic, yeah? Yes. Yes. Thank you. Yeah. Well, I just wanted more... It's based on a true story. It's based on a true story. It's based on a true story. It's a true story of Beetlejuice, the character who goes to the cross.

You know what it is. It's licensed just to go out and be silly. Yeah, I love that. I love that. I love it. Man, well, look, like we say, we've taken up too much of your time. I could talk to you forever, man. Way too much. Like an hour. Way too much. I know, I know, I know. Yeah, really.

And we're just, what a thrill to have you, man, on the show. You're just, I just love that, like Jason said, that you're still doing it, that you're still rising. You're still doing incredible stuff. You keep surprising us and mixing it up. And might I add that you look fucking fantastic. Yeah, you do.

Yeah, you look great. Look at you. I haven't seen you in 30 years. You look fucking great, you sound you do. Yeah, you look great. Look at you. I haven't seen you in 30 years. You look fucking great, you sound great. You don't sound crazy. I hope I'm not crazy ever, you know what I mean? None of us get crazy.

You're kind, you're appreciative. Yeah. You've done it all. And I mean that in the best way because you've done it all and you've got your fucking feet on the ground. Let me ask you a question. If I would do the show every day, would I get this? Yeah, no, not really.

No, you would not. It's usually just once. That's a fucking good question, by the way. That's a good question. No, we'd turn on you pretty quick. I like the read, Jason. What does it mean? I'm being honest, not probably. It's just the once.

We'd turn on each other. It doesn't take much for us to turn on each other. It happens pretty quick. Yeah, immediately we'd put you right in the stew. You'd get it as hard as we do. Yeah, but what a thrill, man. It was so great to talk to you in Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice. Man, I'm excited. Yeah, all right. Thanks, Michael. Thanks, guys.

Come on back out of Montana and come hang out with us. All right, thank you. Honestly, it was really fun. Thank you. Thanks, man. Good to see you, Michael. All right, brother. Thank Honestly, it was really fun. Thank you. Thanks, man. Good to see you, Michael. All right, brother. Thank you, buddy, bye. You've been stealing Michael Keaton's shit for years.

I know, and I didn't want to embarrass him as well because, and I've, you know, got to know him just to say hello over the last five, six years or something, we'd see each other and stuff. And you know where I always talk to him, JB? Conan's Christmas party. Oh, you know him. Oh, my.

It's true, I do. You're gonna get invited this year again. Don't you? You mentioned his name to me. But, and I always talk to him about stuff and I always tell him how much, and he's a big hockey fan, he's a big Penguins fan. So we talk hockey and then last year

he was really kind to me, said something really nice about me on Colbert, which was a fucking thrill of a lifetime. But anyway, so we, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I just love the way he does it. And it's the only impression I've ever done. And I don't want to, and he doesn't know this is of him, but it's an impression of him from gung ho.

We didn't even talk about that. he doesn't know this is of him, but it's an impression of him from gung ho. Uh-huh. We didn't even talk about that. I go. Do it? I go. Me. They're coming to you, the Japanese, they bought the car plant?

That's really good. Listener, if you could see it. I mean, people can't see it. If you could see it. If you could see it, it's good, right? You'd say. It's really good. Close.

Close. Yeah. Yeah, I've just been such a fan of his. And like, I mean, Jay, you pointed out, I mean, he does seamlessly between comedy and drama and absurdism and just everything. Yeah, and I like what you said. My life, have you ever watched My Life?

No. Oh. I think I probably have. It's a fucking, it's so great and sad and oh my god so good. Anyway. What do you say Jay? Well just that he's reached such an enormous height of success and relevance yet he can still go to the market. Yeah. And he can still get a movie financed. Like that's really hard. I don't know if he could. Yeah he could. He could go to the market for sure,

because he's not a celebrity. He's just a really, really well-respected, very famous actor that can do anything, and people go to see him. Yeah, and I like what you said, Jason, about the, you can't really nail him down, like you can't, or maybe you said it well, that you can't...

You can't label him. Yeah, you can't label him, right. I love that, that's so true. By the way, that movie, My Life, is about a guy who's gonna die and his son's gonna be born. It's with Nicole Kidman, I think, and he leaves videos for his son because he's not gonna meet him.

Oh, geez. And how to live his life, what to do, and how to do stuff. If you're looking to get rid of any tears, I guess you just dial that up. I wish I could hug you guys right now. Dump some. Hey, on that ranch that he was living on, do you think there were a lot of animals around there?

Like, what kind of animals do you think there were? I hope your fucking mic cuts out. I hope the electricity goes out of your house, right? Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Wait, no, like there's probably like cows and there's probably like bigger cows and like chickens. You mean like some bison? Bison! Bye! Bye! SmartLess is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbico, Michael Grant Terry, and Rob Armjarff.