SmartLess - "Natasha Lyonne"

Episode Date: March 6, 2023

Gather ‘round for some storytelling with this week’s guest, Natasha Lyonne. The flock flies us through ATM shenanigans, toasties & flat whites, and bus-fulls of bozos. Read between the texts - it’s SmartLess.Please support us by supporting our sponsors.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

I already had a cold listen my hands are freezing I'm I'm I'm freezing and I'm wearing two shirts and and I put slacks on today so I don't know what's going on I just I feel like I'm out of sorts but I am never never too out of sorts to bring you guys an all-new smart list. Let's go. Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. Oh, what's he doing? He's going potty potty he's going potty potty. He's taking a potty and he's taking a potty. Listener, we could have started on time but Will has got a child's bladder and what no he actually just came back in with two bottles of water. I guess he's a little dehydrated. No, I got one too.

So Will, you know, I got a little bit of grief listener for showing up 60 seconds late on our last session. You were three minutes late. Oh, sorry. Check that. What's what's what's the what's the math on that? That's three minutes. That's a hundred and so it's three times 180 180 180 seconds late. So I showed up early today and I said I said you know what the problem about showing up early is that you you risk seeing who the mystery guest is. And then what happened and our mystery guest, this guest accidentally bumped their camera cover and revealed and then I saw the guest was and I'm thrilled. I don't know. No, I know because you were late. You see, that's the advantages of being late. I think I was right on time. Right on time. Will, are you with us? Yeah, I'm with you. It's not a surprise thing. It was just to cut down on our homework. It's not a real big part of the show.

I think I love it and people love it. I think but but the audience is not it's not a surprise to the audience. The audience because they know it's coming. But I don't know who it is. No, I'm happy that we don't have to see your acting pretending that you don't know who it is because you don't want to see Sean's acting. No, nobody does. You know what I mean? I don't I'm glad that we don't have to watch you let go like, oh my God, who was that? That's and that's why I said I know who the guest is. So I don't have to be excited. So do we start or is there other topics to discuss? No, let's hear some of your pre show pattern. You always think I have pre show pattern. Listen, Regis, you come with a couple of stories. You got anything I can come up with something during our break. We just recorded one listener and now I can talk. I can talk about this. Oh, what happened to our break?

I booked a little thing. A job? Yeah, no, no, no, whatever. I booked a two little night stay in this place on Long Island for Valentine's Day. No, for much later than that. Well, are you going to do anything for Scotty for Valentine's Day? We give each other high five. I mean, nothing. We don't do anything. Really? We don't do anything on our anniversary either. Do you guys do a stuff on your anniversary? When is your anniversary? We talked about this. Quick. When's your anniversary? Mine? Yeah, 1111. Is it really? Yeah. Oh my God. Does Jenna and Amanda know that? We're doing next to nothing for Valentine's Day. Sometimes we do gifts for anniversary. I just feel like the whole gift thing and it's it's it's it ends up becoming a bit of a burden, right? Because you're with the person all year and well, but you get I get things that I want from her during the year and she anyway, right?

Exactly. Like you don't need anything to like save up. No, you're not getting shit until there's an occasion is, I think, weird. So also, you're not going to let corporate America dictate when you tell your wife and show her that you love her with their fucking, you know, you know, if I thought like, well, our net, that's what I would be. I'd be it all would be about not not letting the man win. Yeah, you're going to rise up and fight a man. Yeah, screw the man. Good for you. And it has nothing to do with the fact that you're just too fucking lazy to do anything or think about anybody else other than yourself. I mean, if Valentine's Day was about golf, you'd go out of your fucking way. Celebrate. Why would it have to be one day a year? I would love for you to just put on there now just so Amanda sees it. And you don't plan it that on February 14th, just put golf all day that you're going on a golf trip. Yeah, or something overnight. She'll murder you. Just wait for her to actually do have a little bit of golf scheduled for during the day when the girls are in school. And Amanda's busy doing something. Yeah, a man. Yeah, there is 9, 9, 30. Is that the thing that we're going to do? No, I'm going to. No, I'm going to invite you to this thing.

9 30 to 2 30. But Amanda's busy with her work she loves and the girls are in school and then it's listen, it's going to be in the morning and at night. Oh, no, walk us through that. That's when the love happens. And by the way, does it start with that use? Does it start with that? It starts in the morning and then hang it down. Why do your eyes get so heavy? Keep it romantic. Eyes wide. There's nothing romantic about eyes wide. That's that shock. That's what I used to do. Do you guys still do it eyes open, Jason? Lots of eye contact. I used to go out to a bar with my eyes wide open with a drink in my hand like just looking for anybody. That was mostly amphetamines, right? That kept the eyes real bright. Yeah. And then my how you're doing would be much later. After you normally, it's okay to say how you're doing after the deed, right? Yeah, that's right. I'm Sean. Nice to meet you.

After you can, as you're zipping, you can say, Hey, do you mind small bills and how you do them, by the way? Small bills. Will, what would you do during the break guy for the last half hour? I went upstairs. I was playing with the little kids. We were just goofing around. What does that entail? What do you get down on the floor? You make fun of faces. What do you do with the kids? Legos? I mean, we did do a little bit of Lego. Really? And then, yeah, we did a little bit of Lego and then just with, you know, Denny and... What's his name? Quick. The other one.

Well, I was playing with Nash too. Denny and Nash were both there, but I was kind of grabbing Archie or Abel. Those are the other two kids. I know all the kids. I spend more time with my kids. What's your brother's name? Real quick, Will. What's your brother's name? Garrison. Nope. My brother, Chuck, my sweet brother, Chuck, whom I adore. Both sisters. Quick. Tannis and Shanley. All right. So my sisters and I grew up and Chuck was much younger. He is much younger. He's almost 10 years my junior. So my sisters and I grew up. We were closer in age. My older sisters, that two older sisters, Tann and Shan.

What's up? They're great with Eddie in Toronto. All of whom you guys know. Sure, yeah. And then Chuck came along and he was a surprise as my parents call him. Oops, baby. Yeah. He was a real pleasant surprise. Sure. And we weren't allowed to call him Chuck or Charlie. So we had to call him Charles. Just oops.

True story. Who said that though? My mom. And so then it became Charles-y, which is even worse. But he still honored her decision about what the name was. Well, yeah. You have to. You've got to honor my mom. Because if you go against Alex, she will fucking take you down. Still to this day? So it's Charles.

She corrects, she'll correct your, your, your, your grammar or your spell, whatever. I love that. Strangers. She'll, she'll wake you up in the middle of the night to tell you how you're sleeping. Are you sleeping wrong? Yeah. Well, actually the doctors say that on your right side, because it's further away from your heart, like, Hey man, I was asleep for fuck's sake.

Well, actually, technically you weren't asleep. Does Chuck prefer Chuck versus Charles? I think that he doesn't really care as it turns out. And so we still call him Chuck. And but he has a lot of friends who call him Charles and How about Chaz? Ever Chaz? Never any Chaz.

You know who really doesn't care? You know who really doesn't care? The guest. Oh. You know what, Sean? I'm sorry, dude. Are you fucking late, dude? First of all, it's my guest and I'll tell you if my guest cares.

Good. And I know that she does care because she's interested in people. Oh, it's a female. Yeah. I'm starting to feel like I don't know. You know. I know. Stop.

Eyebrows high. That you start with eyebrows high. It's a female? What? Yeah. But you know what? Jason likes, Jason does have something come with this, this person in that they were both actors from a young age.

Oh. They've both been doing it for a long time. Is this Drew Barrymore? And then they know. I mean, he's had, Drew would be a great guest. Fuck it. I didn't think about it. I'm working on it.

I know. I wish that. I hope this guest doesn't. I hope my guest doesn't hear that. She'll love it. She has been in so many things. She's one, again, in one of those people, if you start telling all the things she's in, you're going to know who she is.

To me, she is one of the funniest people I know. Full stop. Full stop. Every time I spent a moment with this person, even a text from this person, even if I get a certain amount of a text from this person, I get a laugh. Even if I think about this person and the abstract, if I think about two, six people's removed from this person, I'm laughing. Okay.

I had the good fortune of making, I guess what you'd call technically a film together many years ago, but we spent a lot of time overseas. We were in Wales together and we had a lot of laughs. And if it wasn't for each other, we probably both would have gotten completely mad. And she's done so many amazing things, starting with, you know, acclaimed roles like Slums and Beverly Hills, to Oranges the New Black, to Russians all. It is. This is Natasha.

The one and only. There you go. Now you do it. Look at her go. There she is. Oh, she's holding a microphone. She's got a hand mic too. She's got a microphone.

He asked me to put it somewhere, but I said, I'm not a professional on this. No one's ever done the hand mic. This is, yeah, this is awesome. Now, hey, Will, did she spend any time in the role? It's Drew Barrymore. You're no Drew Barrymore, but you know what you'll do. I love Drew Barrymore. Will, did she spend any time in the Rolls-Royce in Wales?

It was in Bentley. No, she never got in the Bentley. We did the Bentley in London. In London, yeah. That's right. Oh, we did do the Bentley in London. Did you ride him back, Natasha? He was your driver?

Yeah, he was my chauffeur for the entire. I was your chauffeur. It's true. We call that a movie, can you? No, it was a toaster. What was it? What was it called? You guys haven't seen it.

It's called Show Dogs. Oh, you guys haven't seen Show Dogs? Oh, no. This sounds hand-drawn. You know what, though? Very nice people involved. Very nice people. Very nice people.

And a lot of smelly dogs. A lot of dogs. It was live action. Live action. Oh, yeah. Okay. Was it? Do people call you Tasha, Natasha, Tushy?

Sure. Sure. Tushy. Tushy. Tushy. Tushy. Hey, Tush. Wait.

Natasha, Leon, honest to God, one of the people who makes... I said it in the thing. And I'll say it again. God damn it. I've had some of my biggest goddamn laughs have been in your presence and the stuff that you says to me. You say to me. First of all, being with her over there and having this catering truck,

nice guys, super nice guys. But they would make these sandwiches that were like... It's that white. We were hot for flat whites. They were so hot. Do you want a flat... Would you like a flat white? I'm like, I don't give a shit.

I just want a coffee. What's a flat white? It's a coffee, right? And then... But what was the press sandwich they call it? What would they call it? Do you remember? God, I was just trying to think of that.

A toastie. A toastie. A flat white and a toastie. Oh, a toastie for Tushy. A toastie for Tushy. Have you seen this movie? A toastie is a place. A Neil Simon play.

A toastie for Tushy. Were you looking to put on weight for the part, Will? No, but I did. No, but I did. Flat white sounds like full fat milk and lots of it. No, it's a grilled cheese sandwich. Well, that's the toastie part. That's the toastie.

That's the toastie. And we were like, at a certain point, and Tushy's like, stop making a big deal. This is a... Why are you guys offering to me like this is some kind of found... Delicacy. Nice people. It's a coffee with milk and a grilled cheese.

It's been run over by a hot car. You want to have like nine of them a day, though. Yeah, you do want to have nine of them a day. I would. So anyway, so we were there. We had a lot of laughs. God, we had a lot of laughs, huh? Yeah, but it was dark.

It was dark, but we had a lot of laughs. Here we are in 2023. It was dark. Have you guys worked together or hung out since then? No. Why? Why are you guys fighting? What happened?

We text. We text. We text every once in a while. We text and... Do you find Will a good texter, Natasha? Great question. I do. I think Will's a pretty solid citizen.

Thank you. As far as guys go, because guys aren't great texters, right? I mean, like, do we get away with not being super responsive? He is not bad. You know, the funny person, but also a deep human being, it turns out. Oh, so he'll send you a long one. Is that what you're saying? Text?

It's implied. It's implied. We have a language. We have a language between us. And you know what it is? It's between the texts, you know? It's the subtext. It's the subtext.

Does he have good emoji work? Because that's important. Honestly, I don't remember. I think what's fun, though, is I think you programmed yourself as little big willy or something. Let me look. So I can never find you. It occurs to me periodically to text you and I look up your name and I can't find it. You let him input his number into your phone?

Yeah. Yeah, I love that move. That's when you don't know the person's name. Hey, put your phone in my... Put your number in my phone. Do you handle the phone? I'll text you now so that it comes in. And then you know what?

We'd already been shooting for a month. I was like, this guy's great. We're going to work together. He's so funny. We both have flat whites and toasties. Put your number in here, honey, I said. This is... Wait, Natasha.

All right, I'm texting you right now so that it comes up. So, Natasha, you have like one of the coolest voices to ever walk the earth. I'm assuming you're from New York or a part of New York. Yeah. Born here in the city. And I'm worried about the voice. So, I'm concerned that it's a hot topic. Increasingly, I'm...

Oh, really? I mean, that doesn't end well, right? That is... No, I think it's identifiable. It's like one of the greatest things in the world. Do you do like voices for cartoons and animated films and stuff like that? You have done? I do a measure, but Will's making much more.

Yeah, he's killing it. But we've got the new show now, Poker Face. Yeah. I'm excited for when we're all like 70. And we're like, remember the... I think we're there. I think we're there. We're vaguely trying to name projects from the past.

We've maybe or maybe not done. Yes, there's a new program. Poker Face, please. You tell us. A new program. No, you tell us about the program that the folks at home can be watching on the television sets. Natasha, go ahead. You got it.

You got it tuned in. You got it tuned in. It's called Poker Face. It's streaming on the cock, right? Cock stream. That's what they call it, the cock. Is it on the cock? We gave it the name...

No, who was it if our guest gave it the name? P-cock. But said it's got to be... You got to call it the cock, obviously. They told me I'm in the flock now. You're in the flock. You're in the cock flock. I'm in the cock flock.

You're in the cock flock. You're streaming. You're streaming. You got to the cock flock. I'm streaming out the cock flock. If you want to stream in the cock flock, you got it down. P-cock. P-cock flock stream.

Laptop show. And it's... Rian Johnson created it. Rian Johnson. It passed a friend of the show. Yes. Very talented man. Yeah.

What a nice person. It's called Poker Face. Yeah. It just came out today. Maybe in the middle of the night, I guess they drop shows. It doesn't... To me, that seems weird. Let's start dropping shows at midnight.

You know what I heard it is... Yeah, go ahead. Your name is Will, yes. Yep. I'm currently going by Will, yeah. So, Will. They... Apparently, they do it because if there's a problem, a technical problem, they can fix

it in the middle of the night. Isn't that something? Doesn't that tell you so much about your friends at Netflix and so on? Really? It seems a little unfinished. Yeah. First of all, let me just say this. Fucking...

Cross your T's and dot your fucking eyes before you release a show, okay? Streamers. Right? Okay. This is just word to the streamers. They're not at the age where you suddenly have that revelation that everybody is just another person and they're just doing their best. Like, I remember being a youth and I would think, surely adults have got this handled.

Right. And once you sort of turn something over, Jason, you know this... From Ozark or I know from running Russian Doll, you know, it's like you hand it over from the edit and you think, okay, that's it. My part is over. Here are the deliverables. Yeah. It's not speed and then you find out about all these additional details while you're

in the edit and you're like, how the hell? And that's when you realize that everybody is a human being and another bozo on the bus. Yeah. It's amazing that anything comes out semi-round. Another bozo on the bus is the next... My next go. All right. Just the planet is just a fucking huge bus full of bozos.

Yeah, it is. And you're being self-effacing there too, I'm sure, and that none of us... He's an idiot, including us. And it takes the best parts of all of us and none of the bad parts to make something kind of semi-round, right? And with all the people it takes, all the people that are involved in a film or a show or anything like that, it's amazing that not one of those people screws it up, you know, beyond recognition.

It's like it's a miracle when stuff comes out that's halfway decent. Whereas if you're a painter, it just takes one person, one brush, boom, you get what you get. There's tons of people on the team, right? So many people. And there's so many aspects and layers, and it is crazy that, like when you see old photos of Thelma Shoemaker, yeah, the Scorsese editor, and they're kind of sitting there and the pictures are so iconic and she's over there and they're cutting the film and it's like

we did it. You know what I mean? That's what the movie is now. And making things in this era as a director or something is bananas. Because even things like, I remember screeners of Russian Novel this season went out without subtitles. And I was like, oh, these people must think I'm really a maniac. Like I'm just making a full European art film.

Just things like that will happen. Yeah. Things can go bad at a lot of different stages. And even if things go great and they're well executed, just the taste might be a little bit different than everything you guys have been doing in development and in production. In other words, if the marketing dresses it up in an outfit that is not reflective of what you're going to see when you actually watch the thing. Now you've told people basically to pardon the metaphor, you've gotten them all excited

about a great Chinese food dinner, but you then end up serving them the greatest Italian food you've ever made. But they give it a false negative because it doesn't taste anything like Chinese food. That's fucking metaphor. I forgot you already asked for pardon for that. Sorry. Because I was going to attack that metaphor, luckily. It was a little clunky, but I think the message is sent.

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You've been in... Listen, let's be honest. You've been in show business since day one. Out the womb. Out the womb. You've been in show business. You've been doing this thing. You've been out there.

You've been doing it. And you've done it all. You've been a star. You've been a thing. And now you're a filmmaker. Excuse me very much. Storyteller, well, storyteller. Storyteller.

I don't know if you know about our version to the term storyteller, because now everybody's a storyteller. Everybody just wants to tell stories, you know? I'm featuring Gideon from all that jazz, coming out the womb with jazz hands, you know? Disgusting. It's a disgusting image. Honestly. Only Sean likes it.

Showtime. You can go park and you can get a fabulous teamster driving you over from parking to base camp. And they're like, well, you know, as a storyteller, I'm like, you're telling a story too? Everybody's telling a story here today, huh? Everybody's got a story. Everybody's got a story. But you started...

You've done so many different things and so many different eras of your life. Forget eras of the world, eras of your life. You must look back and every... Is every part of your life... And Jason, you too, is marked by what you were working on, what you were doing professionally. When it's so ever-present, you know, guys like Sean and I grew up and we didn't grow up making movies and we didn't start doing that and acting and getting paid for it until we were in our 20s and 30s, you guys were doing when you were kids, it must be this

thing that is constantly like it's been ever-present in your life. What is that experience like, Natasha? I know Jason's answer. I mean, I will say that there was a time I experienced it almost like... Are you familiar with this Fellini short film, Spirits of the Dead? So it's part of a trilogy called Spirits of the Dead. They are not familiar. Which is...

But you are. Which is... Anyway, they're adaptations of Edgar Allen Poe short stories and one is Roger Vadim and one is Louis Malin and then there's the Fellini one is called Toby Dammit with a turnstamp and it's very... It's very dark. It's almost like Satanic and it's like a warped circus and it's sort of that version of the showbiz experience that's very wrapped in darkness and it's drunk and it's high

and it's kind of that. And so I definitely would say that I'd had that window and then now all of a sudden, in my 40s, it somehow really flipped over the past kind of decade where there's a sort of a beauty to all of that memory and attachment because now all of a sudden the players are becoming so recycled of friends of like 25 years or something, you know, whether that's a Maya or your Amy and a rationale or like something that leads me to... With Ryan, that was so much of why I was so game for this show is I could tell sort of spot him from a distance of, oh, you're going to be one of these players.

Like as soon as we work together, well, I was like, oh, of course we're going to end up working together again. He's going to be so funny when he's old. Like I don't even really think of it as show dogs, this movie we made that I guess involved talking dogs. I think of it as you and I walking around Wales being like, what's happening? What are we doing? We're having more flat whites, like doubled over laughing hysterically and that whenever

I see you, I think of us laughing. I don't really think of us in a essentially failed talking dog picture, you know what I mean? Yeah. So somewhere along the way, it went from like a head trip about the thing to the beauty of the thing of like a life in the arts. It all comes back. It beautifully said.

Yeah. I love that. Jay, what's your experience like? I, I, I joked earlier on that I know your answer. I don't know your answer. I mean, you're similarly, you've, it's been such a ever present thing in your life. Yeah. I mean, and there's good and bad of that.

I'm sure Natasha, you'd agree. It's like there's, there's, there's something great about having started so young, but then there's also like, well, maybe we should have tried to do something else too or, you know, something, well, it's not my interview, but I feel very, very lucky as I'm sure you do Natasha that we're both still working in this business, you know, longevity is a, is a real, um, uh, metal. I, I, I, I, or rather I should say I'm very, I'm proud of that, that I'm still making a living at it.

Cause it's fickle. And is that how you came to being like, oh shit, now I got to, I got to start writing and directing. For me, I, I look back and I realize that, so I think at five years old, um, I'm on Peewee's Playhouse or whatever. And I know he's not very trendy right now, but at the time, you know, when I was 15 and I was in the, this Woody Allen movie, it was like such a big deal and it felt like, ah, this is the cherry on top of a decade of acting, something my parents put me into.

And then at 16, I was skipped by Tish to be a film and philosophy double major. I was like, Oh, well, I'll read all these philosophy books and then I'll write and direct these sort of Bergman, but funny movies cause I'll be a filmmaker now. And then it sort of, you know, took 20 years to kind of get back there and it ended up being, I guess, all the things. Was that similar to your version of how you got here? Yeah, you, you sort of, you have career, like I wanted to be the next Robert De Niro, you know, when I was like 12 and it was like, well, yeah, but, um, I'm getting kicked out

of class for being a class clown. So maybe, When you got kicked out of class, they were, they just pulled the bus over and let you off at Wilshire and Santa Monica cause he was, he was going to school in a massage bus that toured, toured Los Angeles, kids massaging each other. Not untrue. Um, but yeah, you know, you're like, well, I, you know, maybe I'll, I'll, I'll go for the goal.

Uh, later. Meanwhile, I, I need to kind of make a living, um, and, and aren't we both so, so fortunate that we've stayed a float long enough to circle back to our original sort of dreams of doing things that are different than what we've kind of become known for. Right. But the thing is, but, but so interesting about both of you guys is I, I'm not even joking. I'm learning stuff now that you guys probably learned, you know, 20 years before me having started so young, so you guys did have, what's that?

I don't believe that. Sorry. I don't believe that you're learning stuff now. I, I, I, I, I just general, sorry, just a single sense. Yeah. Sorry. I just had to cut you off there. I know you very well.

And it doesn't seem like you're learning anything, but, but, but it would, it's not surprising Sean. And actually I think that you, you're, you're right. I have the same thing. I learned stuff way later, the stuff that just that they know and because they've grown up. It's in your bodies already. And worse, I'm still not, no joke.

I'm still like learning stuff that's in your bones, but they're both, but they're both smart. You guys, you're both smart. You're both super talented. And so it's no wonder that you've kind of maintained that. And I think people say, well, you know, this guy, he had a bad, he had a, he was young and he was a performer and then he didn't really work out and, you know, truth be told, they might have not been that smarter of that talent than, I mean, let's be honest.

You know. You can, you can get away with quite a bit of non-smarts and non-talent when you're, you know, eight, nine, 10, 12, 13 years old, just to sell the gum, cereal. These kids are really dumb. And I want that. That's going to be. I like that's a man. We've transitioned to attacking children.

The thing about kids is they're fucking stupid and then they come out here and they try to do grown-up stuff with the kids shed and I'm all done with it. They're crapping in their pants. You know. I used to have this. Get a license. You're dumb fuck. I used to have this acting teacher.

I used to have this acting teacher in New York. This guy, George Aloros. He was a great guy. And he'd go, when you're working with a kid. What fucking experience is a kid going to draw on? They don't fucking know anything. But I'm fascinated by this because you'll see kids in movies and stuff who have this unbelievable range of ability to express emotion.

You're like, how do you know that? Isn't that bizarre? They're psychos. Total psychos. They're psychos. Exactly. I remember when I auditioned for a little house in a prairie, I had to cry for Michael Landon and I remember just, you train your brain to think about the most horrific thing

in the world to bring up the tears and then use 11 and it's just like, it's a muscle that is very unhealthy, you know, like still to this day, if I got a crying camera, I will think of the most horrific thing I can, which currently is something terrible happening to my children, knock on wood. So I look at pictures on my iPhone right before they start rolling of my sweet children and I imagine horrific things happen to them, I start getting weepy and I say, okay, let's go. It's like, what are we doing?

Yeah. We need new jobs. We need new jobs. That's horrible. This is a fuck up. I know. Natasha, you don't do anything like that. Do you?

I mean, you don't think about Jason's horrible things happening to the kids. Weirdly I do. Which if she needs to laugh. That's great. What a similar process. Yeah. Oh my God. It would be so horrible if something happened to these beautiful children.

I brought this up before. I think, Jason, you used to, if people are breaking up on, if people are, you know, corpsing, like going up and laughing on set, that you'll think about awful things happening to them. Close. I actually, this is a true story. Will Speckle me that? When you guys were doing the office Christmas party, he said that, and everybody was cracking

up doing this one scene. You go, how are you not cracking them? You said, I just imagine all of them dying. Yeah. It's not, it's actually worse than that. If pinching my leg under camera, under frame doesn't work, I will actually just think they, these other actors that are being very, very funny are ruining the movie. That they're being terrible actors and they're destroying this project.

I love that. That's worse than something that I'm dying. Exactly. I get into disdain. Nothing worse than ruining it. You guys are killing comedy. Disdain wipes the humor out of my world. So Natasha, where was, all right.

So now you had all these great things. You've done all these things. As you mentioned, you did, you know, which at a time, again, not very popular for a lot of reasons, but the Woody Allen picture, that was always like the, the kind of the hallmark of somebody who has accomplished a lot when you get asked to be part of one of those ensembles. You go, this is somebody who's important. It was kind of like a stamp, right? To get cast in those, at that moment, you are an important, so you had that, you were

doing a lot of very cool stuff and then you've gone on to do lots of, you started working in television. And in fact, you were one of the first streaming shows around was Orange is the New Black and you became, you're a regular on that for seven years. Yeah, it was a long time. Yeah, I just said, so great. As somebody who was such a stalwart in film, what was that transition like for you going to doing a, in effect, a TV series?

Was that something that you were interested in or, or did you need the job at the time and you're like, fuck it, this is a great opportunity or, I don't know. Did you like that process? Yeah, it was super weird. I mean, I definitely, I even hear the way Ryan and I will talk about this, you know, poker face mystery show and we, we share a love of Philip Marlowe, you know, and Altman's the Long Goodbye. And, you know, I love it so much that in co-creating Russian All, there's like a cat oatmeal and

it's a direct rip from, from the Long Goodbye. Like there's so much about that Philip Marlowe thing. And, you know, when I think of Peter Falk and like the love of Peter Falk, it's not just Colombo. I really think about all those Cassavetes films that, you know, as a teenager, I was like, this is who I am and then I'll be in them and write them, direct them. And you were, you were an indie film person. Yeah.

And it was just, you know, and Philip Marlowe, whatever, Jack Nicholson, Chinatown, and he also has references I don't have like the Rockford Files or Magnum PI. Like I sort of, he seems to sort of know all of the lineage and I'm pretty strictly film or if anything, even, you know, John Fonte or Raymond Chandler books, which he knows all of that too, but I'm just saying that I don't have that same fluency with television. So for sure, I always kind of raised myself on movies and thought that was the big goal. And then, yeah, I mean, basically I was a, you know, pretty serious junkie for, I don't know, I guess I lost like a decade in there, which is always why, you know, I'm pickled

so I look terrific, never looked better. And yeah, also I have the youth and the vibrancy of a 30-something thanks to losing a decade of life. You know what I mean? So those are the upshots, Will. You're kind of, you're kind of like a running back, like a football player who, who, who, who goes on the sidelines for 10 years and comes back and he hasn't been getting hurt for 10 years.

So he's still young. Right? So that's you. There was, there was 10 years of fun and frolicking and no, no, no real career work because I had one of those decades. You did? Yeah, yeah. I didn't really know that about you.

And I didn't about yours either. That's why I'm asking. Oh really? That's what I meant by the Fellini short film, I guess it was too obscure. I guess I was speaking in coded language only myself. I came out of it with, first of all, an appreciation of employment and another, another at bat, another crack at relevancy. And you were, and you were partying pretty hard, let's just say it that way, right?

You were Jay? Yeah, I mean, I, I don't, I mean, sure, I mean, I was out having fun every night. It was more sort of hedonism and debauchery than, than, than, you know, something I felt like I needed to check myself in for a war. But either way, I came out of it with like that appreciation, but also kind of seasoned and weathered and a little bit broken. And I felt that that really helped some of my acting stuff, some of the directing stuff. And my, my taste in things was, I think, more sophisticated, having gone through something

a little less privileged and protected than, you know, being wrapped up in the business. Well, I would say for sure, because it's really all the things you need to know about the human condition, belly of the beast, heart of darkness, it's kind of just seemingly like why Kerouac goes on the road, you know, I think that anyway, that the romanticism that surrounds it, you do sort of, you know, return with, of course, the only problem is if you make it out alive and then they sort of, the thing that's less spoken is, you know, just how, just how dark those dark nights of the soul are, just how much that it ultimately, you know, doesn't work.

Like you can't, you can't sort of stop the negative self-talking, self-criticizing mind, no matter what you do, so you're sort of really doomed to then also sort of take the years to correct it. It's a long way of saying that's how I ended up on, you know, what at the time was an internet show. Yeah. Like as you guys know so much about Netflix and kind of who knew, but certainly that was not the dream.

But it's all right. Well, Hulu's a, Hulu's a different thing, but, so did you, but Natasha, thank you for laughing. I really appreciate it. Well, I was going to say, I just wanted to say, yeah, you know, you can, you run the risk of course, in those, of doing irreparable damage and not just sort of physically like that you can't come back from, but almost, almost spiritually and, and, and right. You can, if that darkness gets too dark, can you make that rebound and come back and live

a life that, where you're not too scarred by the self-inflicted wounds? And are you able to let it go? It's a razor's edge. Are you able to let it go? Are you able to move on? Some of that is like, can you give yourself a break? Can you forgive yourself? Can you forgive all those things?

Can you, can you make that, that step? And I look from what I know about you, you know, I think that one of the great things is, is you're a very open person and I know that you help a lot of people and you're very generous. You have, you're very generous of spirit and of heart. And I bet you that's a big part of, of how you've been able to come back. I've seen it firsthand and it's one of the things that I really admire about you. And I appreciate that.

But let's give Natasha some questions and some, uh, Thank you, honey. Wait, Sean, are you doing an Oscar Levan situation? He sure is. And what is the date in the theater, please? Good night, Oscar. It's April. It opens April 24th at the Belasco Theater in New York, New York.

You know, I am obsessed with Oscar Levan. Oh, really? I love it, figures of all time and I feel like with that coincidence, we'd be remiss to not say, I mean, that's a guy who knows about this whole game. Oh God, all of it. Yeah. Yeah. He was, one of my favorite one-liners was, uh, he said, I take prescription pills for

the side effects. Right. Sure. Well, Natasha, it sounds like you're coming to opening night with us on the 24th. Yeah. April 24th. I don't want to know. We're going to be in New York.

Come on. Come with us. It's going to be amazing. Sean knows. Sean. Yeah. We're here. He said, don't let him know if you're there.

Hey. I think he means before the curtain. So once the curtain goes up. Sean, that was so funny. That last line was so funny. God, that would be my worst nightmare. I'm going to get Natasha to come with us. So, uh, but Natasha, do you, by the way, we can cut this or whatever, but I'm always

fascinated by addiction. It's been in my family. It's been in my friends, whatever it's been all around me my whole life. Because do you ever feel a pull back there? And what do you do to stop that desire if you do feel that? Or are you so on the other side that you're like, not at all? You know, it's helpful to get older because you're, you're lazier. You know what I mean?

Like, I feel like it would take, it takes so much energy to be like scoring and then you got to meet the guy on the side of the road and he's standing on the corner and I'm meeting you, now you're showing out, now it's in the morning, you know, I mean, like some cash from the ATM, it's just, yeah, it's a lot of ATM shenanigans and I just, I don't know if I've got it like that anymore. But I would say that, you know, for sure it is sort of like core to a DNA or whatever that I, that I have on both sides of the coin, you know, whether that's like the darkness of it or, or the, the lightness of sort of emerging from that and seeing life through

a greater, you know, perspective or, you know, a prism of sort of gratitude or something. But it's, it's also like helpful in, in weird situations, like, I don't know if you guys who have any experience with this find that like, I'm not much moved by something like night shoots or something, you know, like I'll see a lot of people that are walking around me like, oh my God, it's so crazy. It's like 3am. I'm like, who am I? You know?

And I'm like, who am I? I've always been the caretaker, you know what I mean? 3am is my home. I'm the opposite. I'm like, if I'm driving home with the sun coming up, this is usually a bad sign. Yeah. And so I don't like night shoots. Reminds me of the old days.

Yeah. But what about addiction? Like, like I'm, I'll always be an addict. I've just managed to channel that into something much less hurtful, much more productive, much more upstanding. Do you mean just pure workaholism? Yeah. Cause yeah, I'm like now, and when people are like, oh my God, how do you do it?

You're like a writer, director, showrunner, you're acting and you're like, well, it's on one job and I'm, and obsessive. I mean, it's another way of being like, and you got the company and you got like 19 shows and you want to direct three movies and how are you going to do all that? And it's like, well, you know, how did I, you know, smoke all that dust? That was not my problem. PCP was not my problem. Sure.

Sure. You know what? I'd love to be able to say smoke and dust. How was your weekend? Mainly smoke and dust. I was so fucking dusted this weekend. I love, I wish I had smoked dust. And I read, I read along.

They say smoke and dust is not a relapse. Oscar LeVance said that. Yeah. It's not LeVance. That's Ed Eaton ain't cheating. That was LeVance. Ed Eaton ain't cheating. Yeah.

But you know what? I love Natasha is the ease. I don't know. There's something about the way that you deal with and talk about that. Time in your life, because I don't want to spend too much time on it, but I know, look, I always think about it from my experiences. I needed contrast and it's been a lifelong thing for me of dealing with that contrast and going through those times.

Again, I don't prescribe it for anybody. But sort of coming out the other end of it, it does give you, I don't know, perspective and I've had so much perspective. And I've been the beneficiary of so many people's so much kindness and so many other people have been really helpful and great people in my life. And it's given me now as I'm 52, such a different appreciation for life and appreciation for my kids and appreciation for the people I love. And it gives me such a great, better approach to life day to day.

I don't sweat the small stuff in ways that I used to. I don't, all that kind of shit, I'm just, I don't know, I wake up every day. I don't know about you. I wake up every day and I'm like, boy, I'm happy. It's a nice day out today. Boy, I'm lucky. I'm having this cup of coffee. Boy, I got to suck back six cigarettes while I'm doing my little, you know what I mean?

The beautiful thing. Well, you can't, you definitely, I would say, you know, first of all, I mean, I'm transparent about it. Well, one aspect of it is I have no choice, right? Like in other words, it's out there. I guess I was lucky that it wasn't in a cell phone era. So there's not too many crazy pictures, but you know, it was definitely same news. And I didn't hear it.

It's news to me on this. And I gobble up a bunch of pop culture. You don't fucking follow me. You should read some of like the post from the 90s. I feel like it's going to backlog. Microfiche. You'll find it. Microfiche.

Amanda, his wife, who you might know, complained to me the other day at how little you pay attention to what's going on. Well, no, but I was, because I'm busy watching the news. You're not watching the news. But I think more than that, it's, there's an opportunity there, you know, in the transparency, which makes you sort of like, I always feel like I have this sort of duty in a way to my inner child for lack of a better term, which is really like she wants to, she very badly wants to tell the truth.

Like she, she really is like hell bent on integrity and good times and hanging out. And it is sort of like a misfit and lawless. And I have to kind of like wrangle her and make her do adult stuff. Like, and, but mostly she just doesn't understand. And I would say I have this very much in common with Charlie this character from poker face. Like doesn't understand the point of lying since we all die. Like John Lennon says, just give me some truth, you know, and really doesn't understand why the setup or the conceit of life is about, you know, small talk and being fake and lying

about how well you're doing. Like there's nothing inherently embarrassing about life being a double-edged sword. And, you know, the buy-in of the game is we all die in the end. And that's a super head trip and the whole time you're supposed to be sort of ambitious and involved in this rat race and watching out for your health. And, you know, you see bodies piling up of, you know, people, suicide rates or whatever. It's just, it's hard to kind of make sense of the riddle of the game. And addiction certainly helps you to understand that like every person, I mean, it's one of

the darkest parts of showbiz is, you know, the solipsism that comes with people thinking they're the center of the universe, so like that revelation of getting clean is that's the big one, right? And you start to see that everybody is a real person who's going through all their own little micro dramas and darkness and all this stuff. So I don't know, just globally, to me, it feels like transparency is a sort of, you may as well, because what's the difference? Like there's such a better chance of helping.

Well, I think the only problem is you run the risk of, because people have sensationalism and click feed and bait and all that kind of stuff that they want to take, boil what you say and your views on stuff and boil it down to, I remember once when I was very honest about the fact that I had relapsed, you know, I say relapsed, but whatever that means to people. When I had gone out and I've been drinking and there was like a, you know, all of a sudden like the Daily Mail, like Will Arnett admits that he hit the bottle. Why did he fucking hit the bottle?

You know, he's like, and that's, and then it was picked up a bunch of different stuff. And so then somebody else is like, Hey, you don't want to talk about it anymore. We go, not really because every time I do, like it fucking smacks me in the face because somebody writes some snarky fucking one line click thing. So it's like, yeah, but that's, that's the media's agenda, you know, and you, that's their business is none of our business. But what I sense from, from you, Will and from you, Natasha, and I try to do is, is do exactly what you're talking about, Natasha, which is be mindful of that, that little kid

that's still in all of us. And if you are, if you're honest with that little kid and you give that little kid the sort of the agency that that kid deserves in your life, you know, that presence in your life and you don't try to, you know, work on some veneer or some artifice that keeps that little kid hidden in and instead let that kid be a part of your, your decisions and your behavior every single day, then you're not asking people to buy a bunch of shit that you can't sell real good, you know, you're just being honest and being you and being the only you.

There's only one Natasha. I think, I think that's right. Natasha, do you, I was thinking about this last night. Do you have, I think that there's great power in being vulnerable or being open. It's the only way we can be funny. All four of us are funny. Like that you can't, there's nothing funny about somebody who's bulletproof. Like it's all about, you know, warts and all.

And, and because, you know, the, the, what you touched on Natasha about talking about we're all going to die. I think about that all the time and not in a morbid way, but it makes you become self. I bet your first, Sean, just saying it now makes you become self aware enough to do exactly what Will's about to say, which was become vulnerable. So if you're aware of your existence and you're soon to be non-existence, you know, it makes you go, like you said, like, who gives a shit about any of it?

Let it be open, be honest, be vulnerable. Tell people how you feel in the moment. And if it scares you, it's a way to overcome that fear of expressing your emotion. I think. Yeah. And I do definitely feel like that softening happening of like, I think it was so, I think I was, you know, so into kind of like tough guys as a kid growing up. That's probably why I have like this, you know, action or whatever.

I'd watch a Scarface or like Sylvester Stallone, Rocky, that's what I want to be. And like you were saying, De Niro. And I loved, you know, Betty Davis and Jessica Lange and whatever. But really I was like, those are my guys. And I think also in many ways I was using that as a way to sort of be safe in the world and say, hey, I'm not like this other game. And now over the years, even in even in talking about things like addiction, which is, it's just something that never goes away.

I mean, those are just like facts. There's nothing to really hide there. It'd be a scam to say otherwise. I do now feel this sort of softening happening where, yeah, it's just you may as well tell the truth because what else are you going to do when you may as well like, you know, when you say, I wake up and it's, it's a beautiful day and I'm grateful. It's like, you know, for sure, sometimes that takes me a second, but it's like the gift in a way is the experience or the familiarity with self to not take it too seriously anymore.

And kind of the whatever that sort of, I guess more like a Buddhist idea of watching the thoughts or something. So I'm more like, all right, I think it's a piece of shit day, but we're going to get up and like have some coffee. And I mean, it's really for me, the joy of comedy or like, you know, like spending this kind of life with Fred and Maya and Amy is like, just that sense of now we're laughing hysterically about a third thing. And in that space, it is an altered state.

And now I'm kind of, I've had a full mood shift where suddenly I'm stoked. And now I'm in the car driving and the sun is sort of, you know, music's playing. And I'm like, it's not that bad. Is it your new healthy drug? Jason, can I ask you a question? Do you find that you're sort of like before you start a season of Ozark, like for me with Russian dollars a little bit, like before I start to say, I'm like, and that's who I'm going to be and I'm going to wake up and I'm going to be excited about this cup of coffee.

I'm so great. I get to have this show and it's my baby and it's going to be great. And then the rush of sort of like almost like the thinking at that level and working yourself at that level in the writer's room and the like the pre-production and that you're really, you find yourself getting tight and it's not quite, it's not as easy as it was. Like you really have to set aside time to not buy into the fact that this sort of alternate reality, that sort of anxiety based, you know what I mean? Of just logistics in a way is because sometimes I find that I have to really like that's when

the rubber meets the road for me of, you know, did you find that? Yeah, there's a lot of logistics and nuts and bolts and blocking and tackling that goes into what up until you start work is just this pure, it just lives in your brain and it's going to be perfect. And there's the, I think it was Ben Stiller that made some analogy once that like starting a movie as a director is that the painting is perfect. And then all the way through the production and development, principal photography and then post, you're trying to, there's like this fungus that starts to come in from the,

from the, which we call it the frame of the picture. Yeah. And it starts to take over the picture and you got to just keep the fungus back from the, and if you can get, maybe you're done with, maybe there's 30% of the picture is infested with this fungus, you've done pretty good. And the fungus is probably a little bit more pejorative than what he meant, but it's, you bring in all these collaborative thoughts and oftentimes are better thoughts, but it changes your picture, it changes the painting and that doesn't deserve a false negative.

It actually change in the picture is actually a good thing because that is the result of sort of this teamwork and this, it takes a village and let people contribute. I find that that's when I really like, I really, when I'm sort of with my friends in Costa Rica and we're surfing, I'm like, yeah, fucking a man, this is good. And I find that that's the most when I have to sort of reset and not sort of buy the lie of the mind that like, this is so real, the stakes are so high. And that's when like things are really, that's when I can almost, you know, when it's sort of that time is that sort of significant is when I really feel sort of all the kind of

work on self or revelations or whatever, like I remember walking on set on Russian doll and it's scary. You know, season two COVID is so this like the COVID shit is very intense when you're the boss, right? Like it's scary anyway, but now you're responsible for so many people's health. And I remember at one point like walking onto the stage and they were like, hello, hello Natasha. And I walked down and do all the jobs, right?

And I was like, holy shit, this is like exactly where I was supposed to be, you know, meaning despite all of that, all the other kind of like outside elements, it was so sure kind of in my bones. And like that's what I mean by like me and the kid were kind of happy. And then we were sort of delighted by the kind of anxiety. And I sort of like, I felt the road widen a little bit of, oh, that's right. This is like this fun crazy thing that like we get to do. It's not, you know, this is that thing that I really, really love doing.

I mean, directing in general is a, it's a very joyous sport, I would say of it just feels so awake and alive in a way that sometimes I think when I'm only acting, like it's different on something like this, because, you know, Ryan and I have like a real partnership, meaning in many ways I think, or even I would say for us, show dogs was like the two of us were in it together, meaning on some level it's like a body of work where it becomes the collaborator is what matters because you feel like you're, you're in something together, you know. But yeah, sometimes with, if you're just like, you know, acting and you have no say, you can

almost feel very far from like the center of the action and kind of, all right, so you're just going to tell me who's like a middle-aged person who's been doing this for 35 years, like, oh, should I come stand over there or something? You're concerned I'm going to go pee and maybe I'll never come back. I'll forget that we're shooting, you know, like, they're just so concerned all the time. Are you directing any of these poker faces? Oh yeah, I did one, I did one that's not, the last one we finished because of the schedule and everything, but it said, Nick Nolte, I got to direct Nick Nolte.

Oh wow. Oh yes, and now there's a real troublemaker. Yeah. She was great. Was he responsive to your direction? Oh yes, and like, we had that thing that you were talking about, that like vulnerability that comes on the other side of darkness or whatever, which is we speak, like, we speak of the same Inge, you know.

That's great. We had a lot of fun together. That's cool. Oh my God, I love him. Yeah, he's so interesting. What a great actor. Yeah, I haven't thought about him in a minute about, I haven't seen him in a while. He's so glad that you got him to do this.

That's going to be cool. Oh my God, he's so, like, that face is really addictive. That's why I mean by like, at the, you're standing at the monitor and like, you know, we use all these zoom guns on poker face, like little like Altman's slow zooms or whatever. Yeah. And you're just like standing at the monitor riveted just pushing in on Nolte and all he's doing is thinking, you're like, oh, that's a fucking actor. Like, you know, that's just the smallest like flicker and you're fascinated.

Like how do I get inside of your face? I love you using the zoom to instead of the dolly push. It's such a different feel. It's, it's a, I just, I dork out on that. Yeah, that's a lot like Ryan. I guess, I guess it's a Stevie Edlin shot the pilot who does all the brick and looper and Star Wars and all the knives out glass onion with him. And yeah, it's a lot of that's like baked into the DNA of even a, you know, like the

Colombo pilot that Spielberg did with like that's got that long shot down to the road. Wow. Yeah. I was just thinking about how do I, how do I get inside your face? And that's obviously what the sodium said to you, Jason, last night. Yeah. But it did. It got there.

No resistance for me. It got there. It got there. The door was wide open. Natasha, would you, would you be happy if you did nothing but direct the rest of your career as opposed to act or you want to do a little of each? I mean, I, I think so. I'm definitely like wanting to be in my Cine Pollock era where, you know, like Kubrick

calls you up and says, Hey, come be in, you know, yeah, come be an eyes wide shot. But mostly you're kind of also I like, I feel like we don't talk about those guys enough like the Cine Pollock. So we're just kind of like, you know, like Tootsie and just give yourself a great role in it. Exactly. But that, that kind of, I would like to be that guy. That's like my dream sweet spot.

Right. And you say, I just watched for a different reason. I watched the first half of husbands and wives the other night in Pollock, Cine Pollock's in that. Remember he, in the first scene he comes in, he says they're getting divorced. They're going to go for a thing. He's so great. There was something else.

And then I was thinking about him and Tootsie and stuff. And this guy is like, he's a fucking jam. Wasn't he? He did so many episodes of Will and Grace. He played Will's dad. He was great. Cine Pollock? Yeah.

It was fantastic. Wow. And so are you Natasha? You did an episode of Will and Grace. I sure did. Favreau puts himself in a lot of the movies he does too. Yeah. John likes a little acting.

John Favreau. Little acting. Yeah. I mean, I think that's sort of, that's, I guess, you know, Ron Howard's done very nicely for himself. But I guess he doesn't. Does he really act at all? No, he puts Clinton in.

No. He puts Clinton instead. He puts his brother in. He won't do it. Danny DeVito, you know, really underrated. I mean, he's made some major movies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know.

Clooney directs himself, Affleck directs himself. Yeah. Yeah. Jackie Bates. Jason Bateman directs himself. He's amazing. Lil' Jackie Bates. Bradley.

Think about Bradley. Yeah. Bradley with Maestro, you know, obviously Star is Born Incredible and now his new film, Maestro, is off the chart. Can't wait. Have you seen it? Can't wait to see it. It's stunning.

Yeah. It's amazing. It's amazing. Well, and also he's done such a, you know, great job that it feels like a real event when he's directing something. So it gets to work with so many great people and when he's just acting, you know, because I think, and I sort of have this theory that we're all going to look back as, you know, we're dying.

We're not going to really remember kind of like in this one, I was the director, but this one, I was an executive producer. Like just all of that sort of sense of ego around it'll fall away and it'll be more like sort of like flashes of the things we made with the people we were hanging out with or something. Getting back to what you were talking about before. It's like, yeah, I'd be happy if I spent the rest of my life just working with the folks that I've really enjoyed working with and my friends.

And I mean, I think we've accrued a nice big troop. You should start just getting going on that. Yeah, but I do. I love that directing. It makes me so happy. Yeah. It really does. Natasha, I mean, we've taken 10 more minutes than an hour.

That's going to cost us longer with you than we usually go with people. Yeah. You said $100 per minute over the 60. Wow. So that's a thousand bucks. Split that up three ways. Well, it was a tough deal, but I'm glad you came. I'm so, I'm so glad that you said yes to coming and doing this show Natasha.

I just honestly, I just love talking to you and you're such a great person. Thank you. Thank you. I'm so happy for all your success and I'm very happy about poker face. Can't wait. Wait, is it out or it's coming? It's out. So it's out now.

It's on Peacock. It's really pretty great. I mean, Ryan is great. Ryan Johnson poker face on the streaming on the cock, wherever you can, wherever you get your cock, wherever you get your cock from, because I don't know some people use Apple TV or they get another thing, but whatever it is that you generally get your cock. This is a great stream coming out. I'm really coming to that Oscar Levant.

I'm telling you right now. I would love it. Come see. We're all going to the premiere, it's going to be a big event. It's going to be incredible. So you're welcome to come. Please do. We'd love to have you.

Come anytime. All right, guys. Thank you. Come anytime. On the cock. On the cock. Okay. Thank you, Natasha.

Leon. We love you. You're the greatest. Thank you. Thanks, guys. Thanks so much. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. What's playing with slam means when you just shut the laptop and end the T-Coup interview instead of doing the awkward sort of like, okay, so. Right after saying goodbye, mid-atore they just yeah.

Maybe Bennet and Rob are giving him the heads up to go ahead do the slam thing. And we don't need we don't need follow-up at the end with them, you know. Yeah, exactly. We just had an hour. Right. Here's what I love about her by the way. I love that. She's, like completely open on apologetic comfortable about anything.

about anything. She's no nonsense, man. I've never, I've never talked to her. I've never hung out with her. No, I mean, I've, I've, I think I've met her a couple of times. I think I met her once with Amy when she was doing a Russian doll singing a Netflix thing. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, but that's, that's, that's the most I've ever had. Yeah. She and Amy. So Amy produced, uh, um, that Russian doll with her that Natasha was the show and Amy produced it, a huge success. Uh, they're very good friends. Um, but we didn't really, I knew, I mean, I knew her a little bit just because she named me, we're friends, but she and I became friends going, doing this, that kids movie overseas and, uh, we had a lot of

fun and she's one of those great people to be kind of out of the country with, uh, because she's really funny. Yeah. She's like, she's a riot. She just makes, makes you laugh. She seems like the best person to ever take smart lists on the road, uh, to Europe. Maybe we can make her a roadie. She'd love to be a roadie, like the highest paid roadie of all time. What do you think of my hair today? I think it's really great. Yeah. Yeah. It looks like you've been, um, riding at high speed on a motor. Bye. Bye. Bye. Well, you're the one to win up. I'm not supposed to go up. Well, I went down before and it felt like a fizzle. Okay. I said, Mike. Smart. Smart. Smart list is 100% organic and artisanally

handcrafted by Rob Armjolf, Bennett Barbaco and Michael Grant Terry. Smart loss. Our next episode will be out in a week wherever you listen to podcasts or you can listen to it right now early on Amazon music or early and add free by subscribing to Wondry plus in Apple podcasts or the Wondry app. Toy Story was the first fully computer animated feature film, but its genius laid not in just its groundbreaking graphics, but also in its storytelling. Viewers became emotionally invested in the journey of the characters buzz and Woody. The stakes were high for Pixar because a new rival animation studio was gathering strength. DreamWorks was fueled by founder Jeffrey Katzenberg's quest for revenge against Disney CEO Michael

Eisner. But Katzenberg's not alone in his desire for retribution. Pixar's Steve Jobs also wants to outmaneuver Eisner and his magic kingdom. Hi, I'm David Brown, the host of Wondry show business wars. We go deep into some of the biggest corporate rivalries of all time and in our latest series, Pixar has to contend not only with DreamWorks, the new kid in Hollywood, but with Disney's hunger for more control. Follow business wars wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon music or Wondry app.