SmartLess - "Nick Jonas"

Episode Date: May 25, 2026

Remember your gum: it’s Nick Jonas. Family chiropractors, Scrooge At 8, and the ‘other NJ’s’ finest hair salons, diners, bowling alleys, & shopping malls. “Just collapse on the floor,” on another piping-hot new SmartLess. Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of SmartLess ad-free and a whole week early. Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Good morning from both coasts. Oh, we're recording from both coasts. Jason's still in New York City. Oh, Sean, are we going to take a look at the weather first? Yeah, we're going to get into the news. In the feel-good piece. You know, we're going to look at the weather. Traffic on the threes.

We're going to look at the weather right after this wonderful episode of Smartless. Let's go. Welcome. Good morning, everybody. Oh, hi, Sean. Sorry, are you about to launch into something? No. Hi.

Like, good morning, everybody. Remember when Sean used to have a bunch of talking about? points prepared for the coffee class? I always do. I have them today if you want. Do you really? Yeah. He always does. Do you have it written down on a piece of paper? I jot it down a couple things that happened. Does Nick do it? No, I do it. Huh. Just right before we sign on. Does Scotty ever, ever recommend or suggest, hey, you know what will be fun for you guys talk about to me? Ever? No, not really, no. All right, so what are the, what are the hot topics today? Yeah, let's go for a hot topic for show. Well, we would have gone there. So my sister was here, you know.

Yeah, the Tracy, listener, the Tracy not only exists, but she had a little stay at Shawnee's house. Yeah, and Jay, you called and she talked to you and you talked to her. And you two were spooning, right? I mean, like... Spooning in bed. Yeah, Scotty was out. Yeah, there's nothing weird about that. No, you guys were cuddling.

That's fine. Yeah. That's fine. We could use, you know what? We could use more cuddling in this world. We could. And maybe a little less gum. Yeah.

Fuck Every shot I know it's hard to remember Because you know we do these like a week apart And then you forget a lot in six days It's difficult Is there like a nicotine cream What about if you found like a cream

You could just put on your shoulders Or something Yeah what about Yeah Is it like like testosterone cream Oh yeah That I've read about Yeah

I've heard about that too Oh no Yeah, oh, yeah, it's not working. It's not working. I need to do a few more clicks. So, Shawnee, hot topic. So Tracy is here, and we watched the documentary. You guys got to see this.

It's called Trust Me, the False Prophet. Wait, is this the one about the Mormon? Yes, somebody told me about it. Well, no, it's not the Mormon. It's about the fundamentalist church of Latter-day Saints. Is that not Mormonism? Which is an extension of. It's an offshoot.

Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, yeah. It's wild. So Sam Bateman, right? Yes, that's right. I thought of you. Oh, but you did. Yeah, it's, I don't know.

Explain yourself, Jason. Yeah, I don't know if there's a relation there, but I would guess that there is. I mean, our family is out of Utah. So, I mean... No. That was probably your first tip, I guess, huh? Was that what kind of got you going in that direction?

I'm not an experienced investigator, but those are two hot leads, name and location. Nothing gets past you, dude. It's unreal. Name and location. So how is Sam doing, Jason? Yeah, I have not spoken to him for years. No, I have no idea.

I haven't seen him since the family reunion. But Amanda did actually just this morning say that she finished it, and she said it's really worth watching, that it lands the plane very well. Yeah, it's sad and fascinating and all those things. It's crazy. Well, you know, there's a Bateman that runs through that great John Crackauer book that I optioned and produced that

Under the Banner of Heaven. Under the Banner of Heaven, thank you. It's a great read. If you've never read it, it's a great read. Yeah, it's really tragic, but there is a Bateman that goes through that, and I bet he's related. Did you guys, you made that, right? We did, yeah.

Yeah, how was it? I'm going to watch that. Andrew Garfield plays a lead in that. Yeah, how was it? On FX. Great. Yeah, be honest. How was it? Oh, I got to see that.

No, I never saw it. I do want to see it. I loved that. I loved that book. Yeah, that book is... That story is insane. What's it, like, generally in a one sentence? There's these...

It's about 250 pages, probably. These brothers kill another brother's child and wife because they say they got a sign from up above. Oh, God. It's not a fun. It's not a fun... Wait, based on a true story or... Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's a full true story. But what's interesting about the structure of the book... Yeah, every other chapter, sort of it's telling the linear birth and progression of the religion of Mormonism. And you can see how well you can make your own decisions

about... But Joseph Smith coming from upstate New York and all that sort of stuff and then he sort of breaks that down in his way but either way wherever you land on it it is a kind of I thought it was an excellent book. He's God cracker is something else. Yeah He's the man. Yeah that... Oh Sean sorry one more to sorry we go let's get to the next topic

Sorry. Sorry, we got hung up. Sorry, we got hung up on this. You're watching the doc. Are you worried that you just can't be, you just can't be yourself in the moment? Sure. No, we can, totally.

By the way, every day. Was that it? You were just going to make a recommendation for media? Yeah, and also I saw, now that we're talking about documentaries, Jay, I finally saw the apocalyptic. Oh, yeah, the AI documentary. Yeah, yeah.

AI doc. That was wild. So what do you think? Are you, are you bullish or pessimistic about AI? Yeah, no, I can't be pessimistic. I can't. I can't. I have to believe, just so I can get through every day, that AI and us will work together.

And AI is not going to destroy the world. Yeah, that mankind will do the right thing when presented with an option to use this incredible technology for good or for bad. I always believe humanity will win out in the end. Hey guys, you know. That is so good. Speaking of humanity, I tell you what. I believe.

Wait, Will, are you about to get to the intro? It's still me. No, sorry. Wait, Sean, you had one more bullet point or not? It was just cultural. Oh, Sean, we should mention just our little side menu, our little side thing, which is Sean's menu, which is becoming our new. It's our new, it's our new feature called Sean's menu. Last night, Jason and I received a text in the chat in a picture of the beginnings of a beginning of a smores extravaganza.

On a Monday night. Yeah, I'm not sure it was fully dark out yet, though. No, not fully dark. not in a beach setting, not on a vacation around a campfire, just a Monday night in Los Angeles. Monday night, yeah,

regular dessert. It was a... Desert was at 615, by the way. Okay, keep going. And it was elegantly laid out on a plate with proper ratios of gram crackers, chocolate and mushroom,

not mushrooms, sorry, marshmallows. They're on the plate. Very dignified. Like, this is your smores kit that the chef laid out for you? No, I did it myself. I was all alone.

Scotty was out of town. I was all alone. I had, so. That was just for you? That was just for me, yeah. And I had four in a row. But wait, this is the hack. This is the smores hack.

Oh, yeah, tell us. I take the chocolate and I microwave it, so it's more like a sauce. Yeah. And then I pour the sauce onto the marshmallow. Oh, you figured it out. Motherfucker. Yeah, so it's not like you're just biting into a chocolate.

Sean, when you just stuff it, why don't you just stuff it all in your mouth and then hop in a sauna and just let it milk in your mouth? Okay. By the way, that's not a bad idea. All right. What are you doing? Are you making schroes?

Most people go in there to lose some weight. Sean goes in there to really dive into the sweets. Or to reheat any sort of food. You'll just walk in there with his plate. Fucking hell, bang dong. Unbelievable. Why waste the wattage? Well, you were doing that.

I'll say this. Our guest, Sean, you're going to like this. He started performing on Broadway at the age of seven. Really funny. Okay? Seven years old starting on Broadway and has continued on and off on Broadway amongst the other amazing thing he's done,

which have been, had multiple number one albums, chart-topping singles in a group. And also with a solo career. Hugh Jackman. And incredible acting credits across film, TV, big studio movies, prestige TV, then returned to Broadway,

been nominated for Golden Globes, headlined global tours, coached on the voice, okay, and built a career that went from teen idol to serious actor and legitimate musician all the way through, which is howie Mandel. Okay, he's got his new record came out,

February 6th, Sunday Best, marking his first solo project in nearly five years. Please welcome to the show. Nick Jonas, you guys. Nick! Come on. Yeah. You look nothing like Howie Mandel.

Or Hugh Jackman. Well, give it time. Give it time. Hello, Nick. Good to see you guys. Nick is seeing you. This feels overdue. What an intro.

That was great. Nick, and I just saw you. It's so insane. I saw it at the Golden Globes. I know. That was so lovely. We were backstage at the holding room for the present.

my wife was presenting you guys there. It's not a big room. That's one of the bleakest, most depressing rooms in Hollywood. Yeah. Everybody just walks in and out. It's way too small. The ceiling's low. I did enjoy listening to you guys rehearsed, though.

It was the master class in Bit. Well, us three idiots? And you guys crushed the bit. It went viral after. It was great. Did we honestly rehearse? You don't remember that. There's a little side room.

No. You ran it back like six times. It was great. We did? Yeah. Just for timing. Just for timing. And then I'll bet it was nothing like, just for timing.

Just for timing. You got to do that. Get familiar with the piece. Didn't you think that Jason should have spoken up? He was a little soft on that one line. If we were still rolling, I'd go back and raise the volume a little bit. Yeah. Because you were turned away.

The attitude was great and the performance was great. We just needed to hear it better. Oh, cheers, man. You know. People loved it. It was great. I loved it. Cheers.

Nick. Thanks for having me, guys. Yes. Nick. Nick. Of the pod. Dude, it is. It's so overdue.

It's so overdue that you're here. And like I said in the intro, as you go back and you look at all the stuff you've done from such a young age and how much incredible success you've not just had, but continue to have, it's remarkable, man. It's so singularly, like that is so tough to do. And it's really a tribute to your talent.

It's unbelievable. It's just that you've always, at everything you've done, you've excelled, and you've managed to sort of keep it. You know, you've done top-rated stuff. And that, and I wonder if for you, starting young like that, did you feel pressure like, I got to keep this going?

Did you ever feel that pressure starting so young? I think to a certain degree, yeah. You know, I started, as you mentioned before, on Broadway as a kid, was lucky enough to do a few shows. And then I was actually a family friend that heard it. A song, oh, is it sound bad? No, no, family friend, those stories never really go well. I thought the son.

I'm on set right now, there's trucks behind me, this little shit. This one does go well. Family friend, he also happened to be our chiropractor. He was like, oh, guys, we're going to take a short break. He told my dad, he was like, look, you know, I know Nick recorded this song. I'd love to play it for this guy who works at Sony Music Group. Did he ask you to just relax? Thankfully not.

But, you know, started recording and then we got signed as a trio me and the brothers. And I think, you know, because we had sort of early in our career had a big failure, our first album did not do well. We got dropped by our first label. Oh, go.

It took, you know, us finding a home with Disney and our... partners there to kind of really step into the next phase. And I think that resilience came from that early perceived failure. Right, right, right. Well, that's, yeah, I mean, did you have, am I right about that? First of all, I read somewhere that, and I don't know, you tell me if it's true, that you were first discovered by like a talent manager or a push towards one when you were

at, like a barber shop, like getting a haircut or something. I was at a hair salon, my mom, yeah, I was six. And I was always singing, you know, before. I was even talking. And she was getting her hair done. I grew up in Jersey. And so we're known for our hair salons, diners, bowling alleys,

and it's about it. Shop and also. And, yeah, so she was getting her hair done. I was singing, the woman next to her said, hey, my son is Gabrash on Broadway. I think your son could do it. She'd go see this talent manager. So we went in to go see Shirley Grant.

Was it Gait and Matarazzo by any chance? Didn't he play Gavroche on Broadway? No. He played Gavroch later than, than I did, I think. Okay. I did it in early 2000s. But basically went into this talent manager's office.

Her name's Shirley Grant, rest of peace, Shirley. She's got her walls line with, like, you know, headshots of little actor kids, weird actor kids who look you in the eye and shake your hand really intense. He's looking at you, J.B. He's looking at you. Did you notice that? He's looking at you.

And she started sending me on auditions, and that was kind of the start to my run doing shows. That's so nuts. So you played Gavroche and... I played Gavroche. Who's Gavroche? I'm embarrassed to say, I don't know. He's the kid that basically is the kind of narrator for the second chapter of the story.

Basically, when Valjean, have you seen Le Miz? Of Les Miz. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. He's the only kid in the whole, spoiler alert. He gets shot in the head and he gets killed. And as a child actor, it's a, you know, a dream role. You get to do the old snap of the head back and die. It's epic.

I also played shoot the teacup. Wait, wait, wait, full sidebar, pause. Have either, you have, you have, you just admitted. Have you guys ever been shot in a production, in a show or anything that you've had to get shot? No. Yeah, I think I've bored you guys with my little house in the prairie story

of getting shot. First time I ever had shot. No, no, I've never heard it. I was 10, 10 or 11, something like that. God, they're shooting a lot of kids. in these productions. Okay, keep going. Jesus Christ.

First big gig. I'm playing this kid. Me and my older brother, we walk into a bank there in the little western town, and it's in the middle of getting robbed. But we don't know that. We walk in, ding, ding, the door chime goes, and the bank robbers turn around and see these two those kids, and he fires and hits me right in the chest or the leg or whatever the hell it is.

we shoot the rehearsal Michael Landon's directing this episode we shoot the rehearsal so I get shot and I throw myself against the wall I slide down the wall and when I get to the floor I start shaking and quivering

like one does because all you can see is in the movies and a TV and then I slowly expire and all I hear is total silence my eyes are closed on the floor and I just hear Michael Landon go okay we're going to cut and he walks slowly over to me i still have my eyes closed i'm still in and

he whispers me and he says okay we're going to do another one and this time i'm going to want you to just collapse on the floor okay next time you get shot i want you to just slowly just collapse and quietly expired here we go everybody back to walk i was so mortified and embarrassed i mean i was just you know vibrating and and throwing myself sure Sure. Sure. Oh, God bless you, Jaby. That's good.

I know. You're feeling it. So you do... So you were going to say, after Gabriott, you played... Oh, yeah. So I did... My first show, I did a Christmas Carol,

which is kind of a seasonal show. So technically not a Broadway show. But Annie Get Your Gone was my first show with Reba, MacGitare. I did it with Franklangella. Actually, it was pretty incredible. Oh, whoa. He played Scrooge.

I was... Actual character name, Scrooge at 8. and I was the understudy for Tiny Tim and in the eight years that this show had run that they'd never had a Tiny Tim cover have to go on so they just didn't bother rehearse the Tiny Tim covers and the year I did it again my dad gets a call and they say hey

Nick's going to go on for Tiny Tim today we got to get you here an hour before the show to do a put-in so I rush over to the theater and basically run the five scenes that Tiny Tim has in the two songs. And, you know, thrown out there for the opening kind of song, and literally my mind goes blank. 16 bars of just silence as the music's playing.

There's really intimidating conductors there, look me in the eye. It was a good entryway into live theater. You know, shit happens. You could just go to roll with it. But as an 8-year-old, I was pretty mortified. Scrooge at 8 would be a good title for autobiography if you ever decided to write one. I'm going to write that down, actually.

That's a good idea. Wait, did that instill a fear in you about performing going forward? Well, the conductor came up to me after, and I was expecting him to sort of scold me or something like a teacher would. Instead, he came down on my level, and he said, things happen. You just got to keep going next time. He said, we're just going to drop to the floor. Yeah.

We're just collapsed. We're not to reset and we need you. And expire. And yet you're going to collapse and expire. Actually, I wonder if, hearing you say that, and Sean, your question, I wonder if it had the opposite effect. If having that, you kind of mentioned, like, your first record wasn't the hit that it didn't go well,

that you had that experience at 8 on Broadway. In a lot of ways, it probably galvanizes you. Because if you can kind of get through that at such a young age. Yeah, yeah. Right? In a lot of ways, you kind of go like, well, fuck, I've done that already. Like, you know, otherwise you're waiting for that moment your whole life. Like, when is going to be the time that I'm going to completely bottle it in the moment, you know?

Yeah, and I've had a few of those two later on. Sure, sure. Moments that certainly didn't go the way I hoped. But, yeah, I do think that those early experiences helped kind of create a foundation that led to me not losing it. Yeah. What about the things that went way better than you thought they were going to go at a, at an early age. Like, for instance,

you know, the, like the incredible fandom of like, all of these like girls screaming at you, even at an age where you might like, you're just starting to like get all crazy about girls. And like has, is that sort of thing,

now that you're, you're an adult and you have, you've managed to weather the transition between sort of like teen idol into, into an adult, you know, a professional actor, performer, etc. You know, how does all that stuff kind of transition for you in your head about, you know, how much of it is real, how much of it is just part of the job, what do you do with all that sort of like that ego surplus and, you know,

because it's all kind of junk food to a certain extent. And like you've got to figure out where to place it all, right? Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, I always think it's funny when people frame an answer this way, so forgive me for doing it. But I think, you know, one of the biggest misconceptions about us and odd to acknowledge your own preconception. Sure. But it was that because we worked with Disney and the core of our demo was, you know, primarily teens, that there's no way this music came from an honest source or that it came from us even. Right, right, right.

And it was a really bizarre thing to sort of be in a spot where at 13, 14 years old, I was experiencing all the things you're talking about. First love, first heartbreak, real big human emotions that I was able to put into song in a way that spoke directly to that audience. And when you ask about what's something I thought went incredibly right, it would be that. The fact that our dad raised us on this great bed of classic. we discovered our own kind of sound and found our own voice creatively.

And I had this outlet that both helps me process these big feelings, but also connected in a way that frankly now, we play these songs 20 years later, as men and dads and husbands in our 30s, it's even more resonant with the audience because they've grown with us. And tracking that over time has just been the most fascinating thing and pretty special. to be out, you know.

And we will be right back. And now back to the show. You mentioned that in your dad raising on those classics and musically. So what was that? Who is the person, did they discover that, oh, that you had a talent for music, that kind of came from you or your parents, were they musical in that way? Like, was that something that they came from them? Yeah, our dad was a really gifted musician.

He's a pianist, a vocalist, and he was actually a pastor when we first started. We lived in Dallas for a bit where I was born, and we moved to Jersey. He became a senior pastor at this church there, and music was always a part of our life. And I think my latest album, Sunday Best, came out in February, really kind of musically speaking, not so much, but lyrically, but musically touches on some of those early musical roots in the church. But the thing is that he also really educated us on everything else, the Bejys, the Beatles, Stevie Wonder, Carol King, all the greats. And we had a real sort of deep-dive musical education

by way of those hour-long drives from our house in Wyckoff, New Jersey, to the city to go perform and shows there. Eventually, we left the church or were sort of, pushed out because our music wasn't Christian music, right? And so some of the people in leadership there were upset about that and thought that we were sinning. Sure. We took a different path.

Yeah, exactly. He was looking at you, Sean. He was looking at you. Yeah, no, I got it. Sean, you want to talk about the time that you wake off in New Jersey? Okay, so listen. Listen. To start, yeah.

But that's, so you had all this music, and then you start, and then you start acting, and you have consistently gone back and seamlessly back and forth between the two and sometimes the marriage of the two in musical on Broadway and then

and then doing serious acting roles and doing all that stuff and is there one I mean you don't have a lane you have you're occupying multiple lanes at the same time and how do you approach it do you have like an approach like well now

this year I want to spend more time making music or do it or does it just kind of of flow. It just kind of flows and as of course you all know that the lead time for a film or TV project is so much longer than the turnaround time we can have in music. I could record a song

this afternoon and then if I wanted to put it out this evening but there's so many people to have to weigh into how something gets made on the film and TV side which is something that is sort of new for me on the development side of things

and I always love hearing and you guys talk about your process with development and, you know, kind of what that's been like. Because the last, I'd say six years kind of during and post-COVID, outside of touring and music and all that, that's been a really exciting thing, is to sort of do my best to forge a path where I'm a little bit more in the driver's seat than I've been in the past. Yeah. I've been really fortunate to be a part of some great projects. But when you can start to develop things that you feel like are the right next steps for you

and you're more in a sort of position to make decisions. It's a really empowering thing. How are you finding your, like, just to sort of follow up further on Will's question there, like, are you, what do you find is drawing you more towards acting at times and what's putting you more in a music mood? Is it, you know, is it, I don't know, like, I don't know, like. Yeah, well, I mean, but right, there are certain. I guess the question behind it all is what is the difference in creative fulfillment that you find between acting and music?

You know, what is what's touching you, you know, in your most core place versus some other place? I don't know. Yeah, I think that honestly becoming a father, we have a four-year-old, that really changed everything for me as. as a creative, both on the music side end and as an actor. And I've always loved acting. And I've kind of bounced between, you know, things like, you know, Jumanji, for instance, which is very big and fun and exciting and incredible cast. And then smaller things, you know, the $1 million movie, right?

The thing that you just kind of grind and I love both and think that, that it's amazing to kind of have that range. And on the music side, you know, the driver is the fans, truly. And I'm not just saying that. It's bizarre to get to do anything for as long as we've now been fortunate enough to do, especially with the way it kind of began, you know, with there is a reality to the fact that teen fans or that sort of heartthrob label can be a challenging thing to step out of. And I think our daughter and the experience that I'm having with her

have me way more connected to the words I'm saying, no matter what they are and kind of my worldview and everything else. So I can't really say one thing is more inspiring or exciting, but actually looking at the world through her eyes in a sense gives me just a better perspective and a deeper, you know, sort of angle on what I want to be doing. Well, and you've also had the, you know, part of your experience has been a big part of it,

on and off, has been continued to work with family, right? To work with your brothers on and off. I mean, that's also very unique. And in addition to your solo work as a musician, and then your solo work, if you will, as an actor going from project to project, one of the sort of the, one of the through lines has been, has been,

uh, what you've created with, with your brothers. And I wonder, is that something that you like, is that something that feels good as, as a sort of a steady thing that's always there that you can kind of lean on that, that,

that, that idea of that family and you guys doing that stuff together. What's that experience like? Yeah. It's, um, it's, um, it's incredible to do,

you know, anything with, with, with the people you love and, and, and, and, and,

and, And, you know, we also had a moment where it wasn't good. You know, we've had that chapter of the journey, too, where we had to basically say, let's not do the music together anymore or work together so that the family at, you know, at the table can still all be there and love each other. And, you know, I think it took us sort of going through that season

and coming out the other side in a healthy way. Yeah, because you guys. went through like a you know the period in everyone's life of change that happens between the ages of like 15 and 20 is massive you know like that was the you guys were just tied at the hip during those those years yes or i mean what yeah absolutely um it was uh you know it was both good and bad there are times you i look up and i look at folks who who went through similar experiences to us who were on sort of a solo journey and didn't have that built-in support system. Because we would check each other too,

which was important to the dynamic and also be a shoulder to lean on when there was tough times and frustrating situations to navigate. Yeah, I mean, you want to change so much, right? During those years, you kind of like you try on these little outfits. I mean, Willie, we're seeing it with our kids, right? During those ages, like, you're kind of like, you're kind of flexing a little bit. seeing kind of like what kind of young adult you want to become.

And if you've constantly got a sibling there, that's why siblings fight so much is that you're always calling each other bullshit, you know, and like, oh, stop with the face or with, oh, nice, nice outfit, or what's going on with your hair, you know? I was thinking about this with us, like as you were saying it, and obviously it's very different, but the three of us, Nick, in this way, have been. You're like brothers. Yeah, we've been friends for a long time.

We're settled into who we're going to be. Yes, but at the same. same time we check each other all the time i face time with both of you yesterday uh i was going to do this thing on thursday and jason's like you got to play golf me i'm leaving i'm going to new york you have to move that thing because i'm leaving i'm not going to be able to play for a while i was like okay and i called the guy i was going to do with i go i have to go because jason's leaving and i have to play a golf with him the day before he leaves and he goes i think it's so sweet that you guys still want to hang out with each other and i didn't even occurred to me yeah but i get it like

you guys are my constant in that way. Like you're my thing, we come back and get to do this together in that same way. And we, so I can kind of relate to that. It's different. Again, I'm not... And you also, you guys are probably as fiercely protective as we are

about maintaining the harmony, because it does take some diligence. We don't talk to each other about, like, you know, the effort I made to avoid a conflict with you. Like, no, you've got to take care of that shit internally and make sure that you're being the... right partner to keeping everything. Like any family.

Yeah, like any family, any relationship, you got to do your part. Yeah. And you got to also talk a decent amount of shit to the people you love. You have to. Which you guys have in spades. You have to, you. Wait, Nick, is there anything, as far as your music goes, I was thinking about this when Will was kind of touching on this too.

And you were speaking about it. Is there anything, how do you determine of your personal life what to share? in a public forum through art. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's a good question. There are things that I... Thank you. That I...

Even a stop clock tells the right time. Yeah, no, he's got nominations, so back it up. Yeah, he sure does. Interviewer of the year. Yeah, I don't think... Did he win? He did not win. Did not win.

He did not win that one. No, he did not win. He didn't win until it got to the co-host version of the nomination. And then we won. Congrats. There are things that I feel, you know, are probably better to just keep private, you know, or find a different way to say it. But I have lived a lot of my life, you know, in the public eye.

Right. Yeah, no shit. It would be odd to not acknowledge some of the things that are already known about it. Right. So you write these lyrics. You know that you, I mean, a writer only writes what a writer knows. So I'm assuming that your feelings, your emotions, your stories come from your life experience. And then oftentimes you want to sort of explore

this through a song, but you're afraid the public might sniff out who that person might be. So you kind of change a name, maybe even change a gender, change who you are, change the, or make it a metaphor, right? Like all of a sudden it's about two dogs in a park or whatever. Like, what an imagination. Yeah, thank you, man. So is there a little bit of like a concoction going there sometimes when you're, when you're writing out lyrics?

There is, yeah. And, you know, are you ever a puppy? Oh, my God, dude. Enough with the dogs in the park. Hey, Nick, ever a puppy or a kitty. That's actually what the entire next album is about. Fucking, Nick, please write a song about two dogs in a park. I honestly got it out.

There's got to be a way. And then look over there. I'll turn it to you first. You can premiere it on the pod. Yeah, but truly, yeah, it must be hard to decide how to do that. Yeah, I mean, I think that it's always fun to think of a different way to say a thing and to, you know, to throw a metaphor in there.

But also, you know, to just say the truth is so empowering. Instead of like they're just sniffing each other, you know, they take each other out on a date. Oh my God. It's the song's writing itself right now. This is never going away. Yeah, I mean, have you ever had, well, then conversely, have you ever written a song and then had questions about it

or it felt like people misinterpreted it? Like they think that it's about something. You're like, oh, no, it's not about that. That has happened a few times. And then the other thing that happens is that, You know, in the year 2026, there's only so many notes left. There's only so many songs. When we first started putting music out in the early 2000s,

on any given Friday release day, there would be anywhere from 30 to 50 new releases. There are now thousands, 3 to 5,000 somewhere in their releases. Oh, my God. Every Friday. I've known an unknown artist. Yeah. I mean, there's just.

so much music out there, which is both incredible. And we love that there's so many people that are creative and that there is new pathways for people to independently release music, all these things. But the landscape has just changed so much. And so as writers, we have to adapt as well. And musicians, you've got to find a new way to cut through. And this is, it's 3,000 to 5,000 now.

And then in a couple of years, you're going to have all the AI groups releasing stuff. Exactly. These labels, labels will probably just have certain groups that are fully AI, right? How do you feel about that? This one goes out to my mother. Have you played around with, like, just get like a first draft of a song or, like, whether it's lyrics or melody, to see what AI can give you on just, just on just a first pass that you then would change to make your own? I mean. I mean, any kind of art, I think.

think AI, I hear, can give you a first sort of pass at it as opposed to, because the hardest thing is creating something out of nothing, right? So about 25 years ago or whatever it was, 30-ish years ago, probably not that far back. Let's call it 25. I don't have the exact facts. There's the introduction of auto-tune into the music-making process. Tell Tracy what that is. Before that, there were little tricks you could do to basically.

take the pitch of a singer and just bring it slightly back in tune so that it just sounded better. And then there's compression, which is another tool that's used. So as modern music making, much like film and TV, started using the technology available to them,

it evolved, it changed, and it became a part of the process to where now, hearing a song without auto tune to your ear would, probably sound odd or just slight pitch correction. Rough. Rough or unfinished or raw.

Or more real. Or more real, exactly. My thing as it relates to the AI conversation and the creative process is that it is inevitable that this thing that is available to everybody will be used in some way and there will both be good and bad examples of how it's used. But I believe that the lived experience

the human experience cannot be replicated. And certainly, you know, songs about dogs sniffing each other's butts in the park could only come from great minds, human minds. Right. Right. But it's a really interesting conversation because it's happening, you know,

in the circles I run in L.A. with other songwriters and, you know, and screenwriters. and it's it actually, and this isn't to like bring up the thing, but I have this movie coming with Paul Rudd in June, which is all about my character basically, effectively, as artist, he's a sort of former pop star boy band artist who is in a crossroads in his career,

who wants to go to that next level, and he meets Paul in a happenstance situation at a wedding that Paul's wedding band's playing at. And basically, I steal this song from him, and it becomes a global smash. Oh, wow. And he doesn't get the credit. And then he comes after you?

And he comes after me. It's a really fun movie. John Carney, the director, he's one of my favorite directors, and Paul's incredible in the movie. But the basic kind of like hook of it is always had me when I first heard the logline, and then when I read it, I was just blown away. But it asks the same question, I feel like that some of the AI conversation asks, Like, what is this idea of ownership of truth and accountability and all these things? And, you know, I'm excited for people to see it because it will leave you with a lot of questions.

Yeah. I love that. I love that. That sounds really good. I think we all, they're all, everything around this topic or feel like just open-ended questions because we just don't know and we don't. We're all trying so hard to figure out where it's going to end up. And we're spending all our time just spitting our wheels going, what? What's it going to be? Is it going to be good or bad? Is it going to be this or that?

And I guess we just, that's the frustrating part we have to kind of surrender to. We don't know yet, you know? Yeah. What kind of, I'm curious, what kind of music do you listen to? Like if you, if I were to turn on a playlist that you had right now, like what, what's the kind of stuff that, and I'm sure it varies, like everybody, like you go through phases and stuff. But do you have any kind of like specific genre or something that you always find yourself? going back to

or artists that you really... I have a few. You know, I've got... I make playlists that are themed. So I'll do like a Nepo Baby's playlist. And it's anyone that's related to... That's funny. Another famous musician.

And it starts a good debate of who is the more famous musician of the two, which is a fun one. Or great songs with key changes. So when me and my friends get together, we sit down and have a couple drinks, then we all like pass the phone around and add to these playlists.

Oh, that's fun. That's really cool. Yeah, it's a fun game to play with your friends, if you ever want to do it. And then outside of that, Django Reinhart is a gypsy jazz guitar player, just really puts me at ease. And it's always playing in our home along with, you know, my wife, Priyanka's is Indian. And I've learned so much about the Bollywood film scene and Indian film as a whole and the music from those movies and really come to love it.

So that's those, you know. Those are kind of my tent pulls. We'll be right back. And back to the show. This is such a hard one. I don't know how I'd answer it. Who's your favorite... Do you have a favorite band of all time?

Yeah. Favorite band of all the... Oh, I know what yours is, Will. What is it? It's Built to Spill. Built Spill is up there, but it's not number one. Oh, is it... What's the French...

The Smith. The Frusian band. The Smith. Is it the Smith? Smith is my number one band of all time. I love that. What about your French Fusion? What's it called?

The French-Canadian fusion van that you just go twat on and on about No, he's not French-Cany. Oh, Bonnie Bear. Bonny Verre is not French Canadians. He's from Wisconsin. That's close. It's close, and it's a French name.

Bonnie Bear is amazing, right? Do you love Bonny Verre? Oh, love. Love. He's incredible. Justin Vernon and those guys, and he's just... I think I turned you on to them, Will. Sean Kerry.

I mean, I was an early adopter. Sean Kerry, who plays with when Justin Vernon when they were doing Bonavere, Sean Kerry's got a beautiful voice, and the two of them, there's a version, if you want to... It means good winter, so...

It does, but without the age. Just seeing you. There's a song, they released, they did it live in a studio, and you can go look it on YouTube, and it's Justin Vernon and Sean Kerry on dueling pianos, and they're doing bunny rates.

I can't make you love me. It's one of the most incredible... It's one of the most incredible performances. J.B., make fun of it as much as you want. You never understand it. Okay? You have the heart of AI You have a heart of a...

I will not love it. Jason has... I would say, Jason has the personality of a Waymo driver. But you... Nick, I check it out. Check it out. Those guys doing... I can't make you love me.

It's absolutely hard, but... I want to know his answer. I know. What's your favorite band? If you had to. I mean, the Beatles, you know, of course. Sure. Okay.

And then the BeeGs. I love the BeeGs. There's a band called Switchfoot that we love. They were really influential for us. They had now called The Beautiful Letdown in 2003. It's like San Diego. I like that. Just a rock kind of, it's that punk-pop, emo rock thing that we'd love.

But yeah, the Beatles, I think, number one. Sean, you got a favorite band? Well, the Smiths is really, really, really, really high up there, but probably Depeche Mode or Erasure or New Order. All the European synth pop of the 80s and 90s. I listen to it every day still. Bronsky beat, erasure. Yes, all those.

What's the best concert you've ever seen? Me? Probably Depeche Mode. Depeche Mode. Yeah. JB, best concert you've ever seen, J.B. And favorite band. Radiohead.

We know what it's Radiohead. Yeah, yeah. Radiohead, Radiohead. Yeah. I think the best concert I ever went to was like, I want to say, 85. And it was the violent femmes and the Pogs and the Double Bill. Wow, yeah. Yeah, it was sick.

Where'd they play? In Toronto. Toronto. Yeah, I grew up in Toronto. Great Concert City. Is it a great concert city? It is. You know, one of the most asked questions on a golf course,

what I'm playing with some guys that I don't really know is always. what's the best city to play in? Yeah. And it's, I, so it's Toronto. Yes. Mexico City. Montreal, great concert city. Great town.

Barcelona. Wow. And Brazil. I mean, anywhere in Brazil. Like, it's just, wow. Listen, shout out to Toronto. I just want to say to all my, all our Canadian listeners, we love you so much. And our friends at RBC.

Wait a minute, but Nick. Sorry, it's not a paid ad. Not a paid ad. Nick. I'm from a little tiny town called Glen Allen, Illinois. And you played at the village next day. It's just a NetJet's trip away. It's a NetJet's trip away.

Okay? Net Jets, it's the easiest way to get around. You know, but wait. Did you guys go to the Masters this year? Did not. I went last year. Yeah. Were you there this year?

No, I missed it. I'm up in Vancouver right now. I'm speaking of Canada. Is that right? And I couldn't go. But my brother, Joe, and I, we first went to the Masters back in 2017, 2016 or 17. Whatever the Sergio Garcia year was, I think it was 17. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then we kind of made a tradition of it. We would go on Saturday night or Sunday morning and do Sunday. Well, it's a tradition unlike any other. And, you know, speaking of that, Jim Nance is he's kind of been a family friend for a while. He's come to a lot of shows with his daughter. They have like a connection of coming to our shows together. It's really sweet. And she's now

married and it's a beautiful thing. Anyway, he let us come into Butler Cabin and watch his intro a few times. And you know, I was there the year. Tiger One, but I missed it this year. And I think I've seen you

from afar at Masters one of the years I went. And just one quick golf story. And sorry to bore you. No. I did this. We're all in. I did this commercial with Jordan Speath for AT&T.

AT&T, yes, yes. And as a sweetener for the deal, they were like, hey, we're going to get you on to play on the Monday after the tournament. Ooh, right after. So I got to go and play Augusta. How'd you score? How'd you score in those conditions? I'm not playing to it now, but at that point I was a seven. Wow.

And the conditions were brutal. But I shot at 84. Very, that is really good. Did you play their T's? No, no, they had us up. J.B., don't be, that's a dumb question. Well, I mean, I don't know things. I went and embarrassed myself.

I went with the Manning brothers about a year ago, just over a year ago, and I really stunk up the joint. I finally kind of got it together, but I really stuck up the joint. But you got to see it. I feel like they could actually be, like, real working actors. No, the Manning brothers. They're very funny. Peyton Manning, he knows this.

I've said, I've embarrassed him many times. He's the greatest working athlete, former athlete actor of all time. Yeah. We're diehard Giants fans, so we had a couple of great years with Eli. We love Eli, too. We love Eli. Legend. Sean, you okay?

Yeah. Sean just tuned out more than ever. He's still coming off his high from last night. He had a campfire. I don't know if you knew in Hancock Park, that little campfire. Campfire for one? I was going to ask you, because I was listening in before we jumped on, how does that work?

The campfire outside in California? No, it's in the oven. When I made my snore? It's on the stove. Oh, okay. I was like, that seems really dangerous. Or if the gas is shut off, he'll just go in the sauna, as we'll explain. Yeah.

So you'll just, you're just standing there jackassing it over an open flame in your kitchen on the stove. Yeah, absolutely. And are you eating standing up? Absolutely, standing up with a big glass of milk. And then make the next one. That's right. And your fingers are now sticky in. Totally.

Well, wait, I'll bet you've got the phone. I bet you're scrolling through your Instagram while you're eating next to the stove. No, I was listening to the Smiths, actually, last time. Were you really? Wait a second. You're listening to the Smiths off your iPhone, alone in your kitchen, making s'mores over your gas range.

That's right. That's right. Fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you. And you're in slippers and like pills and flannels. Totally. It's just disgusting.

Wait, Nick, we do have to get you. You have to come play golf with this. I don't know if you heard Jason's leaving, so we can't play for a while. Until August. Have you guys had Kevin Hart on the podcast? Yeah. We have.

We have, yeah. So he's, you know, newly obsessed with golf. Is he? Yeah. I just finished up on the number three. Jimonji, and he was literally scrolling, you know, just watching golf videos and practicing his swing with like this contraption. It's like a thing that simulates like a golf, I don't know, it was very cool. I find it on eBay.

Was this over in Hawaii? Hawaii and some in L.A. as well. And so in Hawaii, you played some yummy courses, I'll bet. That's a yummy. I didn't have a chance to. I brought my daughter out with me. and my parents, my wife is shooting in India, so I brought her out.

And I did the dad stuff. We did like the dolphin swimming with the dolphins. And I took her. They're at the Kahala Hilton. Yeah, I think so, yeah. And they have a Disney hotel. And so, you know, she went and met Moana and all. It was great.

I sacrificed the golf for the dad. Talk to me about India. How is India? Yeah. I've never been there. I haven't been there. I'm desperate to go. I'm so desperate to go.

You should bring the podcast there and do it. We should do that. That's a great idea. Smartless goes to India. I watch a little bit of Indian, this is true, Indian Premier League cricket from time to time. Oh, yeah. And there's this new kid he plays. I forget what I'm, yeah, the IPL.

This kid, he's 15. He's like this tonal. The Indian team? He plays for one of the teams. No, I don't know if he's playing for the national team. He's playing for one of the teams in the IPL right now. This kid is having... I actually watched the game where he was out after one run,

but this kid is like an absolute sensation. He's 15 and everybody else is way old. Yeah, he's sensational. I love cricket. Do you think the audience is hanging on to this particular section about the Indian Cricket League? I don't know.

You think they're fucking... In India, they are. Let me tell you something. In India, the whole audience, something. He gets that. Jason just straightened himself. Well, yeah. You should go to India.

So Priyanka's been shooting there, this movie by the director of it did RRR. It was his last film. Oh, sure, sure, sure. Yeah, that got a lot of great notice. Yeah, a big Indian kind of epic film, and she's not done a movie there in about eight years. So it's a big deal, her return. You know, she did 80-something movies before she started doing movies.

That's crazy. Wait, wait, wait. Wait, wait. Wait, wait. Wait, wait. Over 80 films? Over 80 films, yeah. She's 75 years old, Will.

It's a fascinating thing, though. The way in which the Indian audience reveres their film talent, their stars, is, it's like unlike anything I've ever seen before. And it's obviously an enormous audience, you know, over a billion people in India. And then globally, the reach is so big. And there's a bunch of projects that are really started to make a huge. impact globally now as well, which is exciting to see. The culture there, I hear that weddings are a major thing. Did you guys have a bit of an Indian wedding or no?

We did. So we were friends for about a year before we started dating. And then once we started dating, it all happened very fast. We just both just kind of knew. So, you know, first real date was in. May, and then by July we were engaged, and married in December the same year. Wow. That's awesome. How did you guys meet? We had a mutual friend who kept saying, you know, you guys will really hit it off.

I'm going to connect you, and he never did, and I got frustrated waiting, and I saw a billboard of her on Sunset Boulevard for her show Quantico. I was like, you know what, fuck it. I'm going to see if she follows me on Twitter, and she did. Wow. Wow. Wow. And so I messaged her, and we went back and forth for a bit. We met for a drink just kind of casually in New York. And it took, you know, a year or a year and a half for us to really say, all right, let's separate the time in our schedules to just like give this a go, go on a date and see what happens. So we did and it was literally, you know, instant. And we both just kind of knew. So flash forward to the wedding, we decided to do it in India. And we were scrambling

to find a place to do it because we had spoken to Priyanka's mother's pundit, her spiritual guide and astrologer, and they had said that the best window, the most auspicious window would be in December. So we're like, all right, we've got to find a wedding venue. And she showed me this video of this commercial that she had shot at this place, this palace in India.

And she was like, there's no way this would ever be available. when I shot here 10 years ago, I said I want to get married there someday. And so her friend who was with us, her best friend and her best friend's husband, he was like, let me just cold call them right now and see if they're available for these dates. And he stepped out of the room and he came back about 10 minutes later. He goes, they're available. It's the one weekend this entire year that they have available for a wedding.

Wow. How crazy is that? So we did what's called a Sengit ceremony, which is the first night. Basically, it's a really fun. tradition where the families, the whole thing is about not just the couple, but introducing the families and integrating them together. And there's the spirit of competition that comes along with Indian weddings. So you basically do a performance and you battle and the family that wins the performance is the more dominant family. So on her side, you have like her

global Bollywood icon and Hollywood star along with a bunch of her cousins and other folks and her family who are also Indian film stars. And then on our side, you've got the motherfucking Jonas brothers. Hello. And our friends and family. And it was epic. It's like a song competition, dance competition, both? Like a show.

I'm not even kidding you. It was like a 45-minute show. Come on. Wow. She crushed it. Her side crushed it. And then we came out and I walked out because they did what the actors do in Indian cinema,

which is that there's a playback singer, it's called, or an artist, but then the actors on screen, in character, lip sync to the song. Right, right, although it's a different singer. So they did that, and I walked out and got on the mic and said, you know, we have one thing, you know, it was an amazing performance, and you all crushed it,

and we're humbled and honored to get to go after you, but we have one thing that you don't. Live microphones, and then we start out. Is there a strategy to going first or second? Did you guys flip a coin to see who would start? We didn't flip a coin. It just kind of happened that way, and I'm glad it did because, you know, it put the fear of God in all my friends and family

when we were backstage after and it was like, we got a whole fucking line. They brought it. Like, now is the time. I've never needed you more. And so we did that. Then basically we did a Western Christian wedding. and then the following day was the Indian ceremony.

So three nights. And by the way, that's a short, considered a short Indian wedding. Usually they can go up to, you know, a week or two. I was just thinking, I was imagining if we introduced that here in America, sort of the competition element to a wedding. And I was just thinking of like a wedding up in Massachusetts of two families. I'm like, fuck you. Yeah, you motherfucker.

You thought that was trash. Now it's maybe we're fucking immediately like, yeah, we go, let's kill these clowns fucking, you know. Total brawl. It escalate quickly. Yeah, wow, that's so cool. Dude, that is really cool. I can't believe it's already been an hour.

Yeah, we didn't get to much. I know. But so much. It's a good, it's always a good sign when you just roll through. Nick, man, you're such a talent, dude. You're such a great dude. And just love what you do and so much admiration for all of it. And just continued success.

Thanks for making time where you're there at work. right? You're in your trailer there. Thank you for doing this now. Of course. And I'd love to come back next time with the bros too. Yeah, come on. We'd love that. We'd love that. That would be dope. We've got to play some golf, you know? We've got to get it all done. Yeah, let's get it all done. Thanks for having you guys. This was awesome. Thank you, Nick. We can just. Okay, you know what? That's it for Nick. Okay. Jason, we're good. Okay. Somebody cut off Jason's Mike.

Thank you, Nick. Thanks, Nick. Thanks, nice to see you again. All right, pal. Good to see you later. Bye. Nick Jonas. That is Nick Jonas. Yeah. You're an impressive dude. Oh, yeah. When I saw him backstage with Golden Gloves

with Priyanka, it was just us three. We were chatting for like, you know, like a half an hour. It was great. It was so cool. Do you think they rolled their eyes after they walked away from you?

Yeah, absolutely. Who the fuck is that? Why is that guy talking to us? This guy is... Why they let such random people backstage? I don't care. Cooking s'mores.

He's wearing scers to an award show. It's wearing, could you By the way, that sounds like a dream. But it's very admirable that he is, you know, just thriving and incredibly relevant and working like a dog. And, you know, he's made that transition from Child Star to adult.

Yeah, I mean, and started on Broadway. I didn't even mention that. He and I years ago went to a hospital here in Los Angeles around the holidays and visiting with all these kids were sick. And he brought his guitar and he played some, for all these kids individually. And it was so, yeah, it was so moving. I mean, it's like...

Like, he was just giving, he was so generous. Yeah, and doesn't stop with his time like that. Like that, or, or, I mean, going from movie to concert, to the recording studio to the, like, it's exhausting. Sounds exhausting. Oh, oh. Oh, that was it. I thought that was a leading to a bottom.

No, we were both thought you were leading into it. No, but they do have, they do have a, you know, a, you know, a song, a title called Goodbye, it's an album or a song or something. Yeah. So we got to give you a quick lesson on how to do the bye thing. Well, there's a song called LoveBod. I will say that his, you know, he, like, he's got the music and the acting and all this stuff. And so, like, how does he decide how he's going to, with his career, how he's going to go, like,

to buy for Kate. Those two talents. Bye for Kate. This got to be the worst part of every episode. Smartless. Smartless is 100% organic and artisanly handcrafted by Rob Armjarf, Bennett Barbico,

and Michael Grant Terry. Smartless.