SmartLess - "Paul Anka"

Episode Date: May 15, 2023

Drink some olive oil with a squeeze of lemon – it’s Paul Anka Day! We’re at the end of the Canadian quota, as Paul teaches us about The Rat Pack, The Mob, and Moose Jerky. Because, in the words of Richard Ehrlich, “this body is not a fluke.”Please support us by supporting our sponsors.This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/SMARTLESS and get on your way to being your best self.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

So, Jason's got to pee. I got to take a nap, will. But maybe we can get the show done and then I can pee in my seat here? How does that work? You should do that. You should get one of those. Or should get one of those microphones that like singers use. I can just take it to the bathroom right on a long cord. And then do you guys mind if I take a nap while you do that? Are you ever awake? Welcome to smartlet. So, hi Will, hi Sean.

Hi Jason. How are you? Doing a hostage video. Where are you? Yeah. I'm safe. I'm fine. I'm holding up today's newspaper. Are you in Atlanta? I am. I'm in Atlanta. Are you in the dressing room?

I'm in an office. I'm in a production office. Oh really? So what you have is like a little break. You have a little lunch hour. They built it around our record today. That's what they do down here. Everybody's real helpful. Let's just drink him in for a second. I've been drinking for years. Even on a hostage video lighting set up.

He looks just, what's going on down there? I have free refills with looking at Will. I just fill up every time. Right? Just pour him over you. Will, are you sick? No, thank you for asking. No, no, no. It's a real sharp jawline.

I know. Cut yourself. I'm here and I kind of say again, everybody's super nice. Remember last time I was here, I was dealing with a lot of issues at a certain department store with the Glory Hole. Yes. You do remember that.

I'll never forget. Why would I not remember a Glory Hole story? This year we're dealing with the same guy who told us about that, is telling us about this app, which is that he's on to meet people. Sure.

And now it's not even like a tender thing where it's just like, face comes up and it's or grinder where it's just other guys. It's just action shots. So he showed us a photo he got from a guy and it's just his rear hand,

rear end, naked rear end and his garbage hanging and all from behind. So he's bulldogging him. And then he just said, howdy. This is an app he pays for?

Yes, I don't know. I couldn't believe it. Which one's for the fellas? Is that the tender or the grinder? So this is a much more this is just down to business. This is just like, here's what you're looking at. Like cut to the chase.

It's a step above grinder. It's a different name. I don't even know what it is and it's just oh, I do it. Look, I get it. It's cut to the chase. Why the small talk? Are we going to do it or not? This is what I got going on right now.

Where are you at? This is what you're going to be dealing with. Are you in or you out because I got to move on. The girls don't get that. The girls need to be talked to and emotional and then that turns them on. But the guy on guy thing is just like, look, I know what I want.

I know what I'd like. Let's just do it or not do it. Right? That's the fun part. Howdy. Will, did he tell you about this or did you ask for a visual proof? No, he was excited.

This is my buddy and he's like, wait till you see what I got going on this year. You're not going to be able to believe it. And then he shows me that and I'm like, oh my God. It was so... You know?

So funny though. Sean, is your life as exciting currently? Yes, I do. I think we all have something to talk about which is our docu-series on Max. Yes. Right, coming out.

Smartlist on the Road. It's a six part documentary series on Max. What's the date? It's the 23rd. May 23rd? Yes. And it's just basically us three idiots. Yeah, we're traveling around

because we took this show on the road to a bunch of different theaters around the country. And it's us traveling and living in the same hotel room and eating and flying. I mean, if you thought you were bored with us before, wait till you watch this.

Yeah, this is guaranteed. When you see us flying... Some people use white noise to sleep. There is actual... I think we have some shots of you eating which I think fans will be fascinated by. Those are fun. Well, it's rare.

It's like sighting Yeti. And there's a lot of talking about eating. We've got plenty of shots of you guys eating. Good Lord. And in cold, it was all cold. Jason, you ordered... Jason ended up being the default ordering

room service guy. And I noticed one thing I didn't want to bring it up because often I would notice when you were placing the order, you had full bone. LAUGHTER Just ordering food. LAUGHTER

The forbidden fruit? Yeah. It's his body responding, getting so excited about getting food inside of him. Yeah. So it is... We like the show, but we're biased.

I hope you do too. May 23rd on Max. I don't know. It's us. It's just this. You get to see what we talk. You get to see us instead of just hear us. We do these interviews on stage, great guests, but then it's also all the travel in between the spots.

Check it out. That's on Max. It's called Smartlist on the Road. Yes. Sean, speaking of doing the show and being on the road, didn't somebody recently just call you... I just texted you guys an hour ago. I was walking on Broadway

and some guy goes, hey, it's Jason from Smartlist. And I just smiled and I said, super guy, go, hi! And then you pushed your stomach out. Did that just tell me? I unzipped my zipper and I stuck my fat stomach out. LAUGHTER I said, oh, Zark, oh, Zark.

I just asked that's all I did. Right on Broadway. LAUGHTER But isn't that funny? Watch out, Zark, girl! I just did. You know what I was doing this morning? I was talking to a New York Times journalist about you, Sean.

You've got, he's doing this, some sort of a profile on you. And so, listener, when a journalist has profile on a famous friend, you know, they'll usually call you to get a little background. Oh, is that why they called you? Yeah, yeah. So he was asking me to kind of fill in some of the blanks.

No, it's cool. I was really well compensated for it. No. And it was, you know what? You know what I discovered, Sean? I had nothing planned to say. I found that it was very easy to say nice things about you. Oh, that's really sweet. You know, usually you have to kind of dig

for some flowery verse about a friend. And it just all fell out. They called and they said, would you be willing to say something for this piece about Sean? And I said, no, thank you. Yeah, because what did Mom tell you? If you don't have something nice?

Wait, do you know that Betty Davis thing from David Letterman? Did I tell you guys that? No, no. So I'm not going to get this read, but it's something like this. Betty Davis, like a year before she died, was on David Letterman and she, and David goes, so what was it like working with Joan Crawford and she and the audience laughed

because he knew she, they knew he was kind of prying her, poking at her. And she goes, David, my mother always said to say something good about the dead. Joan Crawford's dead? Crawford's dead? Good.

Wow. That's very well done. That's pretty great. I'll borrow that. I'll take that. Well, guys, can we segue while we're talking about legends? Sure. Oh my God, yeah.

Let's segue now. You know, we've got a fella today that we could learn a thing or two from. Hopefully he'll give us some pointers on career longevity, creative relevance, reinvention and overall swagger. He's in the music side

of show biz and has been one of the more recognized names around the world for as long as our parents have been alive. He has over 900 songs to his credit, recorded over 130 albums worldwide. His LP in single sales

collectively number more than 90 million and he is the only artist in history to have a song in the Billboard Top 100 during seven consecutive decades. He's a legend. Wait a minute. He's a friend and most importantly, be cool because he's my father-in-law.

Oh my God. Oh my God. Dad. Can I talk and get rid of the cardboard? You can talk and get rid of the cardboard. There he is. There he is. Hi Pops.

Hello, I guess this is the end of the Canadian quota, right? Speaking of which, during my incredible research, do you know Will? He's got a day named after him in Canada. There's Paul Anka Day in Canada. What do you have?

Do you have an hour or anything? There are a few tiers. Paul is like a few tiers above me in the Canadian hierarchy when it comes to legends. I have a long way to go. Paul, I can't believe, first of all, I can't believe that Jason and I have been friends

for so long and this is the first time we've met. Is that true? I know. I've never met you either. We can say that about a lot of people. I know. Paul is a hard guy to nail down. He's always moving. He's always on the road. Where are you now? I'll bet you're not in LA.

I'm in Florida. I'm doing a tour. I just finished the Hard Rock Casino. I finished Palm Beach and I'm on my way to Naples on the completion of this wonderful event for me. What do you do? Do you still do about 30 weeks a year? I do about 70 days. That's all I want to do.

You've welcomed the 80s now, right? And you still... Will, you're not going to be moving at that age at all. It's so impressive. Paul, it should be noted that I like your son-in-law.

I love your daughter. I'm in that. Yeah, I know. And I talked to her probably more than I talked to JB, thankfully. It's not probably. That's a definite. She talks so glowingly about how much,

first of all, through her life, when she was little, but even now, how insanely busy you are and how... I'm going to say industrious, but you never stop moving. What is the secret to doing it for so long? To being able to have that kind of motor?

I guess. If you stop moving, will they throw dirt on you? That's number one. That's going to be our new logo. I've worked out for the age 16. And as long as you've got a passion for what you're doing

and when you started the way that I did out of Canada, hey, as long as the dream's alive, the passion and the energy, you keep doing it. Unfortunately, you stop like I've seen many of my buddies do and you see a lot of TV, read a lot of books and die. So I love what I'm doing.

I'm constantly changing. I'm in the middle now of doing my documentary. We've got a Broadway show that we're doing with writers and it's just something that I love to do, man. When you leave Canada and you make it, you're really grateful because nothing was happening up there other than moose jerky

when I left. Moose jerky. Hey, is that a thing? You guys don't know it. I respect all of you, obviously, but when I did start, there was no opportunity. When I get lucky as a kid, I leave Ottawa, you know what, 150,000 people

at that time, and I hit and the luck's been continuing since then and I said, I'm not going to lose this and then you go through the Rat Pack in Vegas and the Mafia and you learn what to do, what not to do and then you say to yourself, you're being asked to really give this up.

So that's pretty much been the motivation. First of all, I want to get into this. You come out of Ottawa, or as I used to refer to it, the town that fun forgot. I just never seen since. To all our fans in Ottawa,

I only say that as a Toronto Maple East fan. It's a joke, so relax, hold back your comments. But you come out of Ottawa, as we know, these guys don't know, the nation's capital in Canada, but a small town and you were, but you didn't do this, Paul, when you were

25. Before the age of 18, he had five top 20 hits. Before what? Before 18? Before 18. This is what blows me away, Paul. Talk to us about how as a young guy, you had all this success.

It blows my mind. When I first read that years ago, I couldn't believe it. Well, you're 14, you're 15, you're in school, you're in grade 10 for two years, so you get the hint. Wait a second, you repeated 10th grade? Yeah, twice. So I'm in a class

with a bunch of girls with my friend Tommy, whose family were the big ski champs, and we wanted the quickest way out, so we took typing and shorthand. I got thrown out of a shorthand class and took music, so now I get interested in music.

And one day I started writing poetry, and I win awards for my writing. I get thrown into a music class, I take piano lessons, and I start becoming this real big fan of all the rhythm and blue stuff. The black music experience, as it is now, drove everything back then,

as it did when back to the 30s. So I get hooked on music, and I just start writing away. Now I'm playing hockey like all of us attempted to do. I got tired of ducking, because I was very short, so I said, it's not in my future.

And in my day, those guys didn't wear helmets, they didn't wear masks, they didn't wear masks on the rink, so you can imagine how dangerous it was. So they said it won't be hockey, so I'm going to just write songs. So I start writing songs. So I'm hooked, I'm loving the music.

I had a paper route, and then I got a job at IGA food stores, because I heard if you won the contest, you'd get to go to New York, where all the music was. Because the music business was in its infancy stage back there. There were not a lot of labels. What year is it?

I won the award for collecting soup wrappers for Campbell Soup. And me and 40 kids from across Canada put on a train with soggy sandwiches. 15 hours later, I met the YMCA in New York. I said, man, this is it.

I'm coming back. So I go back home, and I said to my dad, look, give me some money. I had some saved up from my paper route. I'm going back to New York. I've got a connection to see a record company. And I go down, I walk into ABC Paramount Records,

which had ABC TV network just starting out. I sing for Don Costa. He was the A&R guy. And like all of us guys, success has a lot of fathers. And he was the guy that made it happen. He said, where are you from, blah, blah, blah, blah. I told him, he said, bring your parents down here.

We want to sign you. You're too young. So I found my parents down. They signed a contract, and May of that year, I was in Atlanta. Two other songs. That was a song you wrote for the gal that didn't want to hear it. Right? Yeah.

And then two or three months later, American Bandstand started. I'm on there in the Ed Sullivan show, and that was it. It took off from there and my life changed. Wait, wait, you did the Ed Sullivan show? I mean, yes. What was that like? How was that? Scared to death. Scared to death.

Because that was like the biggest show then. Well, that was it. You know, television back then was three channels. I read in the middle and green on the bottom, and he tape it to the TV, and that was called a television. Come on. And Ottawa didn't start till five o'clock in the afternoon, and there was like news, a cooking show, and maybe wrestling once a week.

I mean, it was not... And millions and millions and millions of people watching, because there were no other choices. Amazing. Well, it was all radio before that. I used to sit in Ottawa next to a radio and listen to everything until television came. God, am I aging myself? Could you imagine asking our kids

to sit in front of a big box that has sound coming out of it and entertain yourself for a few hours just listening to it? No, they wouldn't do that. They'd look at us like we're nuts. No, obviously not now. But, you know, that's all that there was, right? Right, exactly.

So, like, it felt like... I got to be honest with you. I mean, obviously I grew up... I was born in 70, so it's not... But I do remember as a kid, on my clock radio, I was just talking about with my buddy, Eli. I used to be able to get the W... What was the station out of Buffalo when I could get Saber's games? Oh, yes, the bound dog, yes.

And I could get them on my... When I was told to go to bed, I could still hear the buffalo sing. As a Canadian, Paul, you know this. When you get that radio signal out of the states, it feels like a whole other world. You can't believe it, right? Everything came at you.

There was nothing to watch. I mean, it was just so boring. There was nothing going on. I was listening to Fats Domino and everybody else. That takes off a bit. And then how... So that was your first number one hit? And your 14?

First number one hit, yeah. And then what were the other four that were the five top 20s before you were 18? So at 15, you got Diana. Then my dad wanted me home and then a promoter called up and my second was

you're my destiny, but my dad wanted me to finish school. And I talked the promoter and then let me live with him. He had a bunch of drug stores. Izzy and Irving fell. So with you on my destiny, I move in with them down in Washington.

Then I had those lonely boy, puppy love, I love you baby. There's a string of hits. Really quick, Paul. I'm doing a play here in New York and the guy who wrote it, Doug Wright and my other actress friend, Deb Monk wrote a song called Puppy Love Doggy Style.

I love that. Paul, we'll see them in court. I offered it to Frank Sinatra when I started working for the mob in Vegas. He wanted me to write for him and I said, well, I can give you a puppy love. We'll change it to love as a bitch. You know,

I was thrown into that world because I worked for the guys. I mean, a lot of people, they fantasize of what it was about, but it was real. They controlled everything. Talk a little bit about how that happened. How did you end up? Well, first of all, you wrote

a very popular song, one of the great songs of all time for Frank Sinatra. My way, yes. Well, that came later. You know what happened? You wrote My Way? I think so. You have me thinking about that.

I didn't know that. Let's go back before we get into My Way. Let's go back into how you start working with those guys and working with the mob. Well, I'm making lots of money and I've got lots of hits and everywhere that I had to play, the mob ran everything.

They ran all the clubs, all the distributors, labels, all the restaurants. Which is the youngest to play Copacabana? Well, I became, with those hits, I became the youngest to work this mob place called the Copa, which was huge. Yeah.

And I started working it as the youngest kid and I must have done weeks there on the block, Bob. I was about 19 years old. Well, I was in Vegas first. I played Vegas at 18 with Sophie Tucker. And then America's favorite group.

And from there, I went to the Copacabana in New York and I started there very, very young and I had a bunch of hits going into that and then the bosses said, would you like to go work Vegas with the rat pack? Now, you know that these guys are in the mob

at this point. You totally know who you're working for. You're told to behave yourself. Wow. These are the guys and when you see them, blah, blah, blah. I mean, there's this real strict education as to behavior, what to wear, how to act.

Me, Bobby Darren, Frankie Avalon. So we knew who we were working for. Uh-huh. When the word came out, go to Vegas, I fly out there, spent a lot of time there, you know, saw Sinatra, Marilyn Monroe, that whole thing. And I start working for the boys

and with the rat pack at the Sands Hotel. What year is this? That's 1961, 62 somewhere in there. You're too young to gamble. Couldn't go in the building. I had to look through the windows until I was old enough at 21.

You didn't have a fake idea or something like that to get in there? He's famous. He's Paul Anke at this point. Those guys knew everything. They knew everything of who was in there, who was allowed in, who wasn't. I would have died so quickly if I was part of the mob because I always thought

it would be so cool. But like, oh, these guys are like, I don't know, there's something glamorous about that life that I think everybody would say. You would have been like that annoying dog in the cartoons, just run circles around, the big dog.

Where are we going? What are you guys talking about now? You meeting the mob would immediately be, the scene would be you meeting them and immediately all those guys doing one of those funny scenes about how they're going to bury you, where they're going to bury you. Who's going to bury your stupid mob?

And we knew. Listen, it was such a small community. You knew when somebody got smoked. Wow. You know, when a game was rigged. Were you ever scared about that? No, ever. I'm scared going there now. I'm scared going to Vegas now with what's there.

Believe me, you can't trust anything that's going on there now from the streets to your room. Really? And we will be right back. We'll be right back. One of your top choices. And they'll be more likely to apply.

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slash S M A R T L E S S. Zipper Cooter the smartest way to hire. SmartList is sponsored by BetterHelp. As a lot of you know, I'm in New York doing a show on Broadway and it can take a lot out of you. So what I do is I figure out how to balance my time doing the show

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You have to take care of yourself so that you can be there for other people, family members, and all your loved ones. So it's easy to get caught up in what everyone else needs from you and never take a moment to think about what you need from yourself. But when we spend all of our time giving,

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flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelpHELP.com slash smartLess. This episode is brought to you in part

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The result is absolutely stunning. Gorgeous. Benjamin Moore paint is only sold for purchase at Benjaminmoore.com using code SmartLess. That's Benjaminmoore.com code SmartLess. And now, back to the show. What would be the main thing

that you would have to watch out to not do when you're conversing with the mob? Like, what would be... What would get you in trouble? Well, respect was everything. What you said was everything. You never wanted to

get out of line or do anything in destroying a room, trying to do something that was out of line. You've got to remember, all these guys were older than I was. The Rat Pack were older. Carl Cohen was my rabbi. And Carl Cohen was the guy out at Cleveland. He was the sweetest guy ever.

And he watched over me. Those were the guys. Were they, like, father figures and brother's type? Yes, totally, totally. And Carl Cohen, he was the guy... He jumped ahead that knocked the teeth out of Frank Sinatra. Oh, wow. This is a rabbi.

Rabbi lit up Sinatra. This was Carl Cohen. And he was the nicest, salt-of-the-earth type of guy. And every time I needed something or had a problem, I would go to Carl Cohen and he would watch over me. Because I was this kid. But I was making money for them.

It was very freaky for them because they were used to Sinatra, Dean Martin and Sammy Davis. And all of a sudden, this kid is wandering around doing business singing these cockamamie songs. You know, they're doing Cold Porter and I'm going, I'm so young and you're so old. Right. So then the rap pack, they're what?

They're in their mid-30s, 40s? Oh, yeah. You're hitting 20? I would say close to 40s, yeah. And were they welcoming to you? How long did it take for them to kind of bring you under their wing and kind of show you the ropes a little bit? Right away. See, they all had a vested interest

in whatever sense. And anybody that made money for them, you know, they had the swagger. Those were the guys. Sinatra made Las Vegas, all those guys. Everybody showed up only because of him and then the gambling. So when I hit the scene and I'm making money

for the mob, the word is out, be nice to the kid. That was my nickname, the kid. And we'd all hang out in the steam room, this little steam room, in the back of the hotel. In the back of our robes, we had our nicknames. You know, Sammy was smoking the bear. Dylan was Dino.

My name was Dino. And they embraced me right away. Right away. And I just watched and learned. Watched and learned. They were amazing. That education that I got at those early years you couldn't get today.

There was no technology, no tricks. It was all real stuff. And those guys were the real deal. It was fun, fun, fun and professionalism. I learned so much from those guys. And then how did, not to jump too far ahead, but then how did my way come around for you to deliver to Sinatra?

Well, you know, for years in there he had always teased me about writing for him. I'm still young. I'm scared to death. I'm intimidated. And I figured if I'm ever going to write something, it better be good because that'll be my one shot. But I'm in my early 20s. And I moved to Italy and I'm living over there

because the Beatles hit, which I'll tell you that later. I got them over here. And I come back and I'm still working. And in the late 60s, we're down in Florida at the Fountain Blue Hotel. And that was a hang place for all of us and all the mob guys, the Fountain Blue, which was the model for Vegas, by the way.

Ceasus Palace, Steve Wynn, all those guys learned from the aesthetics of the Fountain Blue Hotel in Miami. That's where that preacher guy, his wife got that pool boy from there. I just watched that documentary about it. It was the Fountain Blue. Unrelated, unrelated.

So, oh yeah, good friend. So the preacher boy, he was also around. I'm covering everybody here today. So I met the Fountain Blue. Wait, wait, wait, go back. What was the foundation of Vegas? Well, Steve Wynn, who's responsible for the, let's call it,

the second chapter of Las Vegas. Genius of Steve Wynn. He and the guy at Circus Circus and the mob who went all the money, the Teamsters Union, they were going to build Ceasus Palace. And I had 5% of Ceasus

because my friend, Nate Jacobson, out of Baltimore, came to me who I'd invested with and he said, blah, blah, blah, we're going to build this hotel. We want you to be a part of it. Well, my people said you don't want to own anything because the governor will be all over you. So they all wanted to build this amazing hotel,

Ceasus Palace. How are we going to build it? What's it going to look like? The model, the aesthetic model and everything in it was taken out of the Mountain Blue Hotel, the inspiration for that aesthetic look of Ceasus, which was the cheapest

investment in real estate and the biggest bang of real estate in the country. It only cost them about $18 million if you can believe it. Ceasers? To build it, yeah. So anyway, so there I am in Florida, Sinatra's having dinner, invites me to dinner.

I think he's running with Mia Farrell at the time. And he told me, he said, you know, I'm quitting show business. I'm tired. Rat Packs over. I've had enough of this and I'm going to rest. I'm doing one more album with Don Costa. Don Costa, as I mentioned earlier,

was my producer. And I introduced him to Sinatra in the 60s and he did that amazing album, Sinatra and Strings. And he said, I'm quitting, but I'm doing one more album. He never wrote me a song. So I can't believe it. Sinatra quitting. So I go back to New York where I'm living at the time.

I sit at my piano, 12 midnight, thunderstorm outside. I'm saying Sinatra retiring. I can't believe it. I sit at my typewriter, paid off from sitting in grade 10 for two years and I'm typing away metaphorically. And now the end is years.

In five hours, I finished the song. That's crazy. So now I call him up at Caesar's and I said, sir, I said, I've got the song, blah, blah, blah. He said, bring it out. I fly out to Caesar's Palace. Go to his dressing room. I'm going to do the song. He says, kid, I love it.

I'm going to do it. Two months later, he calls me from a record studio in LA. Listen to this kid and he takes the phone and he puts it up to his speaker and I hear my way for the first time. How old are you? 25 years old. I'm not kidding. I'm getting chills.

That's amazing. So the lyrics were quite literal that you just took. It's like, you know, for me, the end is near from his telling you what he's done. Exactly. Metaphoric. I wrote it as if he were writing it. Otherwise, it would never use ate it up

and spit it out and stuff like that. But that's very indigenous to Sinatra style. That blows my mind in a way that and that gate, like I said, it quite literally gave me chills and then the chills were gone when Sid Vicious recorded it. Years later.

I felt more than chills when I first heard it. So says he called and they said, we're using this Sid Vicious. I'd never heard the record. Is this a prank? He says, no, this is a real guy. So I heard it. I did some investigating. I said, you know, the guy was sincere. He went to Paris.

He was ripping up amps and trying to get the sound. I said, who am I to stand in the way of someone's expression of a song? And I granted the license. That was so crazy. Jason, you know about that, right? That Sid Vicious from the Sex Pistols recorded my way. Yeah, yeah.

I wonder if our listener does. That classic, that opening shot in Goodfellas that long tracking that not tracking steady cam shot through the kitchen and all this other stuff. That was a shot Scorsese came up with as a result

of watching a documentary about Paul where a handheld camera followed him all the way through a kitchen, right? And then up on the stage. Yes, Paul, is that right? I produced a film with the national film board. You guys know how important their work is. And they came to me

in the early 60s. We want to do this documentary first time ever on a pop artist, blah, blah, blah. I said, let's do it. So we did it and we won a lot of awards the Venice Award and New York Critic Awards and it became this really acclaimed piece of

Verité on a pop artist and Scorsese used it, the Beatles used it in terms of the application and how it was directed, etc. It was taken from the Copa Cabana. I used to do scene study with this guy, Vito Aniforma, the former boxer

and he's in that shot at the very end when Ray Liotta comes in and Ray Liotta says hey to him and he says hey. Anyway, he used to be my scene study partner years ago. I want to know Jason and Paul at what point, Jason after you met your

gorgeous, amazing, wonderful incredible wife Amanda did you go, oh my god, your dad is Paul Anka and then you're thinking, oh my god my father-in-law is Paul Anka and I'll never live up to, oh sorry.

And then at what point did it go away where you're just like, okay I can't stay in this frame of mind anymore and I'm just like, that's my dad. I knew because I knew her name when I met her when she introduced herself I was like

oh, I don't remember if I even asked if she was related, I think I just assumed and so I was, I thought well if this goes a couple of more dates I might get to meet this guy and I'll be nervous about that. And then I think Paul was the first time

we met at the Plaza Athene in New York I feel like it might be. Yeah, first and then you hung at the house up in Mulholland. Yeah, Jason remembers that but no vacation with his friend Sean go ahead Jay. No. With his french lot.

He does remember the glory holes either for months. He put me to ease very, very quickly. He's obviously very used to being famous and having people be intimidated when they meet him and so he's got that down where he just disarms

any kind of arm situation you might create you know, he's just as you can tell. Paul, I mean the way that you talk about these incredible, iconic not just people but moments in time and eras that you

inhabited. You were just an observer you were part of. You alluded to the fact that you were in Europe with the because of the Beatles or they were big at the time. Talk a little bit about that. Well I'm writing away but I'm realizing while I'm in the business all I kept hearing is

this may not last. They come and they go. They come and they go and they say, yeah, they may not last. Okay. I might be back sucking on that moose jerking in Canada in two years. So now I said, well I got to start writing songs for other people.

Because I was a writer. I wasn't sold as a, you know, they groomed me up to look cute but I was not a good looking guy. But your voice is undeniable. Well, at least we had the voice going for us. So I'm singing away and I started writing for other people. I wrote Buddy Holly's Last Hit. It doesn't matter

anymore. And, you know, we lost him on one of our tours in the plane crash. And it started there. And then I'm writing for Connie Francis. Then I go to Europe and I'm asked to be in a movie called The Longest Day for Darrell F. Zannick. Classic war film. I'm in the film and look, I'm not an actor

but I'm in the film and I say to Zannick, hey, I'm a writer. I'm a writer. I'm telling everybody. I'm a writer. You need a song. I mean, open the fridge. The light went on. I'll write for you. So now with Zannick I go home. I'm inspired. I write The Longest Day for the film. Then I meet a guy called Johnny Carson.

He's starting this TV show for a year. I said, but I want a new song. I write the Tonight Show theme. You're joking, man. Wait a minute, Sean. Wait a minute. You're joking me. That is crazy. I wish I were to put Amanda through school until Jason

took both. It's the most recognized TV theme song in history. It's been performed a million times. You wrote that song. Well, let me tell you, writing is one thing, but getting it out there, I got thrown off

from Mitch Skitch Henderson was a part of the show and when Johnny came in, who was new and I'd given him a job on my TV show, Johnny, Skitch Henderson said, I don't want some kid taken over here. We're not

using the song. And when Johnny called me and said, you know, I'm sorry, I love it, but I can't use it because Skitch has been here blah, blah, blah. He said, yeah, Skitch the switch artist. So I said to Johnny,

I said, look, I'll give you half the song, half the publishing, half the writing, and if anything happens, you're going to earn half of everything with me. So a day goes by and he calls up with his manager and says, you got it. Now they don't know it's going to be on what, 30 years?

Either did I. So he says, the song is back on. And every night we listened to for what 30 years and I gave half the song away, but I had nothing anyway. Well, you had half of half of something instead of a hundred percent. And then Skitch went on to be

Sean's haircut, right Sean? What's his name? Skitcho. Skitcho. Skitcho. Go Skitcho. I go to Europe and I had a whole career in Europe. I went to Japan when I was 18. Yeah, what's this? You lived in Italy, you just said.

Yeah, I lived in Italy. I didn't know that. Everything, well, when the Beatles hit, you know, let me go to that. I'm working the Olympia Theater and I'm really loving the culture and I'm loving Europe and I'm touring all over the place from Japan to Europe. And I go to see a friend of mine at the Olympia.

And on the under bill from my friend, he says, the Beatles. Watch your mic, Paul, you hitting the microphone. Oh, I says the Beatles, the Beatles. So I'm sitting there watching the show and the guy, ladies and gentlemen, he's the Beatles. And these guys come on and they're doing these cover songs.

And I'm looking at these guys. Shirts, ties, long hair and they're singing away and as a musician I'm going, God, there's something here. So I go backstage and I meet them and they're talking to me and oh, we love what you're doing. So they're saying, we want to do what

you're doing. We want to publish and write and produce the music and blah, blah, blah and I strike it up with these Beatles. And then I go to London and I think they started with a hit and I'm having drinks with them over there and we're talking and rapping and I come home to New York where I'm living and I

go to Normie Weiss and Sid Bernstein, who are my agents. I said, there's these guys in England called the Beatles. You got to sign them. Now you have to remember, we're not in a media driven society. Pop music is still in its infancy stage. Nobody had any

idea what was going on in Europe. And I'm pounding these guys to go get them. Like Rock and Roll just started, right? Just started. Infancy stage. So long and short, they go over and they sign the Beatles and bring them over in what, 64 on Ed Sullivan? And that was the start of it

all. So they bring them over. You know the story there. I leave and I go to RCA Victor Records who built this huge sound stage in Rome and they introduce me to one of the most amazing genius musicians I've ever met called Inio

Morricone. You guys must know that name. He knew films better than the directors and he was unbelievable. He starts my career in Italy and I'm singing and living in Italy. I'm out selling

the Italians. Just in Italian. So I'm living there and I'm having a career in Italy with Inio Morricone. Who are you? The answer is probably yes. Throw it at me. I was going to say did you ever write a song for the Beatles?

No. They did their own thing. I wish I had. Do you know Italian? Yes. You could speak Italian. What other languages? I recorded in Spanish, recorded in Japanese. I lived in Germany and I had a career in

German in Germany. I get up in the morning at nine with this strict German woman, Siegret Folkman. You put it in your tongue in the front. I hadn't even had breakfast yet

and I'm worried about my tongue and I sat with her five days a week learning German and I loved it over there. It's a great country. Beautiful. It's a great country, by the way. If you I want to know about

I thought you were going to go back to embracing the bear in this theme room. I want to stick with the tongue. Love never felt so good that song. Michael Jackson. And then Justin Timberlake. We recorded it.

Drake and talk to us about the collaborations, the duets with some of these folks. Is that something you'd love to do? I started somewhere in there, I said I got to meet some other people and write with them because I love the experience.

Anyway, I start with Michael McDonnell, Bert Backer, a bunch of talented people, good friends. This guy, publicist, kept bringing Michael Jackson around. I knew the family from Cezars. Joe would bring him in. They watched Sinatra and me, Dean Martin.

And I saw this family grow up. We said Michael is starting over at Sony and he wants to write and be on your Sony album. And I had already had everybody slotted in the album and I had two slots open. And I'm living in Carmel at the time. And Michael flies up with this guy

and we start writing together. And you knew right away with a guy like Michael how talented he was. Now unlike everyone else he didn't play an instrument. He was all in the head. All these noises like working with a bird.

And I knew the way that this guy had it down. He knew what he wanted and he knew what he was about. So we sit. Paul, you sound just like him. Yeah, thank you very much. I do 20 minutes of that in my act every night. So we start writing in the middle of the process, which is

interesting. His record thriller, whatever the first one was, starts to take off. Michael goes into second gear of Michael, really into his career, really into being very professional. But he steals the tapes

out of the studio in Los Angeles and I couldn't complete the songs with him because he had taken the tapes. Something happened to your face, Jason. I think you're growing an appendage. I grew a second face. Oh my god.

You're a second elder. Oh my god. Here she comes. I'm just saying, I love you all. You're very tan. You look very cute. Amanda, wait, Amanda, don't go anywhere yet. I can't believe this is the first time meeting your dad. I love your dad.

I now know why you've been keeping him away. I can talk for hours. We love your dad. Sean didn't know about the tonight show. He came to a father-daughter dinner up at our Sundays and it took the house down. Yeah. He invited him back.

Yes. He's a big hit. By the way, I love you all. Willie and Sean, I'm crushed that you're away. I know. We're going to see you very soon, but I miss you too. I'm so excited. Daddy, I miss you. I love you. I'll see you at the party, remember, next week.

Yes, at your party. You're coming to dinner. I can't wait. I'm so excited. I love you guys. Bye. I love you too. Paul, will you be my dad? Michael Jackson took the tapes or something? He stole the tapes from the studio and they called me.

I hate being negative because he's a talented guy. In the 80s, Sunset Sound, they called me up and said, Michael came and took your tapes. Now, I've got the tapes are gone. I can't finish. But the tapes of what? Of songs that you were working on with him

or songs that you recorded? Three songs that we wrote together. Here's to give you the payoff in a second. The three songs. My tapes are gone and now I'm in Lawyerville and I'm not litigious. I think the worst thing you can do in life takes the eye off the ball is get into litigation

if you can avoid it. Anyway, tapes are gone. I'll leave a hunk out. The lawyers decide to convince him, give him back the tapes. So he gives me back the tapes, but he's gone. I can't finish the project. Now, this is the 80s. The years go by

and what happens when he comes back on the This Is It tour? I get a call from Harvey over TMZ. He said, Paul, there's a Michael Jackson record out called This Is It and we think you wrote it. And it's his tour.

It's the name of the show. The documentary that you're shooting when he passed away. I said, Harvey, let me do some homework. So I get a hold of the record and what happened was the original title was called I Never Heard. This was called This Is It. When I hear the record,

the first line is This Is It Here I stand. They took the first lyric, turned it into the tour title, and indeed it was the song that we wrote together. Well, now this shit hits the fans.

This is only like in the 2000s. It wasn't that long ago. Yeah, exactly. So now we get the same lawyers on the phone again. Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba What are you doing? That's our song, did you? Oh, you know, lawyers. Oh, we didn't know, Bob.

I said, look, let's make it real simple. You're stuck. Your tour is named. You got a record coming out in a week. We'll make this very sweet. I want half of everything or you're not going to put it out. Well, we got everything. So then after This Is It came out,

I got a call from the guy that was running Epic Records, L.A. Reed. I said, did you write a song called Love Number Felt So Good With Michael? I said, yes, he says, well, it's coming out with Timberlake and Michael. I said, what did you do?

He says, we found these tapes in his drawer. We thought they were his and we made a record out of it. I said, well, it's going to be half of it. Let me give you an address. Thanks for doing the heavy lifting. That song is fantastic. It's such a good song.

So it comes out. There's that. I got a call, Drake. Did you write a song? Yes. So he comes over the house. Nice guy, talented Toronto boy, as you know. Yeah, Toronto guy. And he said, look, what do we do with this? I said, look, I don't know anything about your world.

Culturally, I can't write what you do. But if you want to take this and break the code and put your magic on it, let me hear it. You can put it out. He takes it. What I'd written and what was there with Michael and he turned it into something that doesn't matter to me.

And that was the third record. Wow. That's unbelievable. Crazy stories, huh? Incredible. We'll be right back. The secret sauce is that they're the first company to sell wireless service online only.

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by going to RocketMoney.com slash SmartLess. That's RocketMoney.com slash SmartLess. RocketMoney.com slash SmartLess. And now, back to the show. So, you know, I put your head on my shoulder. I mean, pop you love. You're having my baby.

My way, all this stuff. Every time I think about all the really recognizable songs that you have that you have done. I keep thinking about it. I'm going to ask you about this again. And I would like your take on it, guys. I want him to remember the three tenors.

Remember the three tenors. Remember the three tenors. I want him to do the three crooners because each you can, you got it. Let's workshop and find the other two folks. But you've got enough you've got enough to fill

your section of it. I mean, in spades. I mean, you're playing your hits. You could do you could tour it. You could do Vegas. As you know, you could do on Broadway. It would be an absolute smash. Yeah. Who's who are the other two that would do it with you? That's a big question.

Who are the other twos that leave their ego at the door? You tell us. You know these guys. You know these players. Well, you know, Paul, you just said something really important before you answered that, which is check your ego. And I love hearing you talk because you have been around and seen it all. And I can tell that you don't have time for the

bullshit. You don't have that ego in that way. I love that there's an authenticity to it that is so refreshing because we don't have enough. And by the way, I was thinking you're talking about the mob before. I mean, you're in the talent mafia. You have been doing it and you have been working with and collaborating

with people for so freaking long. There's no reason you can't do this now. It would be a crime if you didn't do it. Well, if you've got time. I mean, you're doing your Broadway show. You're working on the documentary. You're probably writing another book and you're touring. Well, I'm touring. I leave for Asia in May.

We're booked right up until next January. You know, the problem is this. You have to have a business mind and an artistic mind in this business. You really do. You've got to watch your stuff. And every time I've addressed it, you've got managers in the way. You've got agents in the way and you've got

some artists who are very talented. But that's it. There's no business acumen and there's threats. They don't want to get on stage with certain performers. They don't want to go through it. They don't get it. And it's a shame. You know who gets it? The country acts get it.

The rap artists get it. But there's not many in my milieu that I could really say to you, look, I'd love to bring Julio Iglesias out of retirement or whatever he's doing, okay? Because the Hispanic base in our country

politically and everything is huge. Yeah. If you could get Tom Jones, Tom has been, you know, had some health issues recently, great voice. There's a few people that I think would work, but you can't get past the agents, the managers. Well,

somebody would have to do it. I just don't have any time to press it. Great. It's a smart list tour and we're going to get it done. Guys, why don't the three of us sing all the songs? I'm open. Songs are not responsible for any of the songs. Sean, you do the singing

and then Jason and I, what do we do? Well, these two talented guys would always do that. We'll make funny faces on the sides. You put me on your shoulders. Oh my god. I mean, just, well, we're going to work on it. We're going to come back to you with a proposal on that. Okay.

It's a great idea. Now talk to us about this, you know, the stamina, the endurance, the longevity, you still touring like crazy. Literally, how do you do that?

Yeah, but how are you able to stay so healthy and have someone say, what's the ritual? Yeah, look, walk us through your day. It's so basic. Look, you know, I know what you do. You run, you watch what you eat. You know, Amanda's always been like

that. I literally from hanging around those guys in Vegas with the smoking with the drinking and all the bullshit. Hey, if that's your thing, do it. I couldn't sing if I drank too much. Right. I couldn't function if I did what too much.

I tried a little of this and that you got damn right. You made up my mind and made choices. But when I get up in the morning, you know, I have my lemon juice. I eat blueberries. I have my olive oil with a squeeze of lemon. I don't have a big breakfast. I don't eat white bread. I can give you

a boring list. This body is not a fluke. Okay. This is it. Even Paul Acke is quoting Richard Erlich. Is that Richard Erlich? Was that where I heard it? Great Richard. How's Richard doing? Tricky Dick.

He's married, isn't he? Oh, yeah. Tell Tracy who Richard is. Richard is one of my best friends and a friend of what, all four of us? No. And anyway,

Richard is, I love, by the way it should be noticed, yeah, hi, Dick. It should be mentioned that Richard is one of the first smart list super fans when we first met. He was like the first guy to keep texting us and being encouraging. He's such a

sweet heart. You want to buy a house? By the way, you want to buy a house now? I get Richard Erlich. He's eating blueberries right now. That's how he's getting through this interview. This is a super food. I love it. I'm going to do it now, Paul. I'm doing it every day.

You put it in a shot glass and you squeeze a lemon on top of it and drink it. Before you go to bed you make sure you have ginger. I'd rather drink a soda and die early. Listen, Sean, you're not going to make it to Paul's age. You keep having the corn flakes on the tuna fish.

Listen, they're coming up with some stuff from Israel. I read a lot. They've got some stuff now. They're going to turn it out a lot back. You're going to live to over 100 years old. Especially kids that were born after 2000. They'll be living to 125.

Now, what about playing music day to day? Not physically playing music because you're doing that on the stage. What are you listening to that's keeping you inspired? Do you keep up on new music?

Do you have a staple that you listen to that keeps you going? What gets you going? I'm listening to everything eclectically. There's some stuff I'm not interested in. Believe it or not. But I'm listening to stuff from Adele, some rap stuff,

Jay-Z. There's some talented people out there. Is there anybody that you've always dreamed of writing for or with? Elton John and Sting. Wow. I think Elton's very talented. I think Sting is very talented. I think Billy Joel is amazing.

You're never going to discount. When you look at the foundation of those doing the business out there, it's all the guys that are close to 80. Stones are still doing it. There's a ton of them. There's some good stuff out there that I listen to opera music

when I want to calm down. I listen to a lot of Sinatra. I listen to everything as long as it's good. If it's good, I'm on. I'm down for it. Paul, for many, many reasons, I want to be you when I grow up. We never grow up, my boy.

We never really grow up. I get that sense. Paul, it's unbelievable. I don't know what Jason, I think he's jealous of you. You've got too much charisma for us. He knows that we're like,

Sean and I are going to be like, we've got to get rid of Jason. We've got to get Paul to do the podcast with us. We'll keep it in the family. If you guys want to recast, that's fine. You've got to keep it in the family. I've got to tell you, I'm so proud of that guy. I don't know how to lay it on.

All of you representing what you do, I'm not going to lie in front of me and he's been a hell of a father with those kids, but beyond that, I'm not even going to get into it because it speaks for itself, and I'm not going to embarrass him. But as proud as he may be of me,

that's how proud is Jason, is he, is that your son-in-law? Everywhere I go, they don't even know who the fuck I am. We're taking these guests, right? But they... Listen, whatever you're throwing at me, I'm throwing it back to all of you. I'm throwing that up, which was...

I wanted to mention this earlier. When Amanda started dating, when he said that he didn't know, that he figured that you were Amanda's dad when he first heard her last name, when Jason and Amanda got started dating and then got married, and I don't want to embarrass Jason either

because Sean and I both love him. I give him a lot of shit, but I love him and he's a brother and more than a friend. How lucky did you feel that you got to have this guy as your son-in-law and in your life? He's a thoughtful, smart, sweet, great dad.

All this shit that you said times a million as you know. No doubt. He's a brother from another mother to all of you guys because you know the great thing is, as you guys know, it's all real. You're never going to hear anybody say anything

and I never have. And Jason's been through it, man. You'll never hear anybody say anything derogatory about Jason. It's true. You had a nice little window into it. We're still looking though. I'll find it.

Paul had a nice window into my old life though. Right when I got married to his daughter, he took me and two buddies, Erlich was one of them, Dickey, to Vegas and he gave me and Richard and Danny Comden and

the whole solid crew. He showed us his version of Vegas and it was just incredible. And so you got to see me lubricated, you know.

Erlich was making deals right down to the end. What do you mean $30 for a lap dance? Who's gonna kick over here? I'm not paying that. No, he wasn't. Jimmy's listening to this right now going, Richard said he's never been to a strip bar before.

This is crazy. Paul, we've taken a lot of your time, too much of it. You're very, very nice to have come on and done this. Thank you for saying yes. Paul, next time I'm in Los Angeles, I want to have a dinner and keep talking about everything

in your life. Let's do a dinner. Paul, please, what a thrill. We're doing that as soon as you get back. My mom and dad, my dad who grew up in Winnipeg, Manitoba has been a fan of yours. He was born in 38 just outside of Winnipeg. For him,

I'm not kidding. As soon as I'm done, I'm going to get off this thing and I'm going to call my dad and say that we had you on and he's going to be absolutely blown away. He's going to be blown away. You've got a pretty decent hockey team out there. Yeah, we do. That's what we should do. We should go to a hockey game together.

We should introduce him to Shani, too. We should. Do you know which team in the NHL makes more money than any other team? You guys are hockey savvy. Toronto? Let me see. Toronto Maple Leafs. Everybody is way behind.

Do you know why Wayne Gretzky never had a curved stick? Why? Why is that? Because he always scored on his backhand. He never wanted the stick curved. Hardest tradition. I knew Wayne when he was a young little fella. He used to fly him around on the jet.

So I knew him when. So, you know, Paul, I don't know if you heard the episode that we did with President Biden, but what he wanted to do and did do, he was so excited because I guess he did all some research, found out that you and I were related.

He came in playing one of your songs on his phone. It's one of his go-to songs that he's got on his phone all the time. It played his interest music. On his own personal cell phone. I thought you were putting me on. Nobody handed it to him.

He got it on his own phone. He walks in playing that. Jason blushed. And then I feel like, did we call you? Yeah, we called. He called me. I said, I'm only doing this with your son because I said I wanted to talk to you.

I was getting ready from the world I come from to say, fuck you, Jason. Don't put me on. And then I heard the sound of his voice is real. And then he carried on as you heard him. He was very complimentary and very nice. I was very touched and it was very cool.

It's cool for us to experience all of that happening in front of our face. Very, very cool. Paul, you've been killing it for a long, long time and many, many years to come. We can only hope to have the kind of longevity and relevance that you've had in this business

and your success and your personal life too. I mean, I'm a huge benefit of your offspring as well. And we got a couple of great grandkids of yours to prove it. So I just love you and thanks for chatting with us.

Hey guys, it's been my pleasure. My pleasure. Thank you. Thank you, Paul. Paul, thank you. The great Paul. I look forward to the dinner, guys. That's a done deal. Let me know when you're back. All right. All right.

See you, Paulie. Bye, guys. Bye, buddy. Bye. What a legend. I mean, I can't believe you guys haven't met him before. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding either. We haven't met him yet.

You're like, oh yeah, he's great. I love him. He's great. I can't believe you haven't paraded him and being like, Sean and Will, I love this guy. I wasn't even sure that you guys were going to be cool with me bringing him on. Yes, why not?

Because it's just so self-serving. He's my father-in-law and I want to bring him on and chat with him. Do you ever call him Panka? No, but that can be your little pet name for him. No, you guys were very, very sweet to him.

I'm dead serious. I want to sit down with him. I'm not even kidding. He'll talk to you every day. I was going to ask him if he's ever whacked anybody. That's a great question. I know that Sean has,

but that's different. That was mutual. Oh my God. Sean got led into the mob because the first thing he said he said I love whacking people. Well, you're in. Just sign here.

Okay. That same app that your friend used to say. The same app. Howdy. That's amazing. By the way, go ahead and win what we're going to say. No, I was just going to say, I'm really blown away, Jay. I really am.

I just love him. And loving Amanda as much as we do as well, certainly as much as I do. Just seeing her dad and starting to understand, putting the pieces together. I got met one of Amanda's sisters. I remember I played golf with Amanda's mom. You and I played golf with her mom years ago

before she passed, which was such a treat. Yeah. And then just meeting her dad now which just brought it all full circle and it just makes me love Amanda even more. Yeah, likewise. With that name that she came on and said hi, I was the first time on the show.

She's never done that. It was so cute. We should have her on. No, because we want to hear the real stuff. Yeah. I don't think I can be on that episode. No, because she'll get too real. She'll be like, I told Jason, I told him.

Jay, I want to start fighting. It'll be a one hour fight. I didn't want to stay silent during that. I want to echo what Paul and Will are saying too, but what an incredible father you are, what an incredible person you are. Truly. And this is the episode to say that

and this is the time to say that. Love on you is really cool. Very nice. I feel like you're working into a bye here. I am. I wanted to quote some of the lyrics from my way that I didn't know he wrote until today. I can't say I did it by way.

Why not. We can't say that because that's not a fucking thing. Yes, it is. You fucking blew it. Anybody who heard you say that knew exactly what you mean. He's going to talk about sleeping with a man and a woman all these lyrics. Right?

Go ahead, John. I was going to do just the one lyric about, I planned each charted course, each careful step along the, bye! Bye! Way! Way! Way! Very nice.

Come on, that's pretty great. Smart. Last. Smart. Last. Last. Smart. Last.

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