SmartLess - "RE-RELEASE: Ben Affleck"

Episode Date: October 8, 2026

Ben Affleck comes to us from his lair to let down his hair, talk about Air, splitting incomes as a pair, how long-lasting friendships are rare, and filmmaking fare vedere. So listen to this episode… um… if you dare.This episode was originally released on 4/3/2023. Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of SmartLess ad-free and a whole week early. Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Boy, you know, I just can't get enough of that opening song. I just think it's just great. It's so good. It's under our voices right now. Can you hear it right under us? Right, yeah. It's just kind of gets me going. Oh, I'm being real buoyed by it.

I know. It's always called me a robot. It's kind of like my little theme song, right? Yeah, yeah, it is like a little thing for a little robot theme, but it's playing underneath us right now. It's going to kick in in a second, kicking in. Just my glass. Three, two, one.

Dun, do, do, do, do, smart. Now, so we had a little record earlier to, and now we're having our second record. There was a gap in between where lunch usually sits. And whenever this happens, I'd love to know what Sean had. Oh, good. I had chicken curry with rice and cauliflower and sweet potatoes. And then I had a huge bowl of ice cream after.

Wait, you had chicken curry with rice? Yeah. I did not know that chef we already made that. That's funny. Or chinchin. Yeah. But you see, I didn't change. I'm still in my smartless merch shirt.

Yeah. Smartless merch. There's some good stuff in there. I was, uh, I guess I shouldn't be surprised because we looked at it all before it went in there. Let me tell you something. I slept in this. Shop smartless.com. It's the best stuff. Oh, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, is, it's, wait, is it, is it, is shop smartless.com for real? Shop smartless.com, yeah. What's it should know that? Sorry, Sean. What did you? Shop smartless.com. It's great. It's, it's telling you, you, are you sleeping the sweats? You, you, you You did, right? You wanted the heavy blanket.

You wanted the heavy blanket. I wanted the heavy blanket because I have an issue with a throw blanket. A throw blanket covers one leg. Right. So I never understood the function of a throw blanket. No, I'm saying I like it because it's weighty. Yeah, it's weighty and it's big. It covers your whole body.

And it's like, what do you call it? Warm? Flea, like fleece, I guess. Is it fleas? Hey, by the way. You know what I did? Oh, definitely a whisper. Yeah, because that's going to be.

For Scotty, I got him a surprise. I got John Williams, the composer, to sign a page of the E.T. score for Skies. How'd you do that? A friend of mine knows his friends with his daughter, and then we just kind of made it happen. Are you guys good at that? Are you good?

It sounds like you are, Sean, where you sort of like you remember what your friend or partner or kid or whatever he really loves, and you work on it for a few months And you get the perfect gift. Like, do you do that? I love doing that. Yeah. Really?

Yeah. Hey, Will, you don't need to go up high like everybody in the world does it except you, Jason. Like, I don't do it. So that's why I don't do it. Yeah, it's true. Will's very good at throwing money at a gift. Of course, Sean, and I am very good at that. You're very good at that.

Whereas, Sean, you'll do sort of a sentimental thing, or I remember you said in July that what you wanted for Christmas was... That's right. Like I clocked last year for Maple's birthday. She just mentioned that she loved skateboarding. So I got her skateboard

or a certificate for a skateboarding thing. Yes, and we went and spent the hell out of that. Did you? Remember? That's how she broke all her teeth, remember?

Thanks, Sean. Remember that time she broke her arm and all her teeth came to spit her teeth out? That's why she's got those flippers now. And we've got this memory of her

and she takes her teeth out. Every night she thinks of you when she has to take him out. By the way, back to the ice cream thing i didn't tell you this jay last episode we recorded you we talked about you having their what is it called the root root root canal yeah i had a cavity you had one and i just got yeah just last week and i got a crown not possibly your first no oh my god i have so many but it's 52 years

old i have a cavity oh they're going to start coming fast and that is strange let's take a look at your diet um but what what is strange about things on your body degenerating as you get older well but I floss and I brush and I do everything, so it's like, why teeth, teeth don't play by that. No, because they're sitting in sugar all day. Yeah. I will say this. When you're having ice cream, when you're having dessert for lunch. Yes.

You have a situation. He had dessert for breakfast the other day. Hey, I did have a thing where one of my favorite sweeteners that I use. I don't want to say which one with my coffee because I thought, oh, I'm not having sugar for a few years I've been using a sweeter. And I see that one of its ingredients, this study came out yesterday, a huge study saying that it causes like strokes and heart attacks and shit. Yeah, oh, I saw that.

Yeah, really, I know. Yeah, I'm so fucking bummed. Well, so you don't want to say this publicly since it's already public? Well, just because it's in other, so I don't want to call out the one particular brand, yeah. Yeah, it's being reported on or whatever. Yeah.

Oh, so the sweet, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the ingredienting ingredient. So then what is the ingredient. Do you remember? Forget what it's called. Agave. Is it agave? No. It's in a lot of,

it's in a lot of the sort of stevia-centric sweeteners have it in there. Yeah. Yeah. Is that what you're using? Yeah, I'm mainline stevia, Dan.

Yeah. So, so a lot, I don't know if purest, I don't know, but I know that some of them have it in it anyways. Guys. I know. Real uplifting, huh? Are we ready for our guest?

Oh, I guess let's get to the guest. Before I die, let's get it done. at least we'll know why I gotta say I get some of the best guests this guy has had not one did you write this intro? Did you write this intro? This is the intro yeah

Did you write it? Of course I didn't, yeah This guy has had not one but two songs written about him by a huge pop star Most would agree he's Hollywood royalty Being an Academy Award-winning filmmaker A heavy-hitting movie star

Who's portrayed a very famous famous DC comic book character on screen multiple times. But most importantly, just an all-around great guy, that I'm so happy to call a friend who I love a whole bunch, and I know you fellas do too. Please welcome to Smartless Mr. Benjamin Gaza Affleck Bolt. Benjamin's a... Oh, no.

No. There he is. I love him. I love him. Very nice. That was... How did Sean get you and I don't? God damn it?

Because I like him, and he's a great guy. You are a good actor. I always feel like I'm liked when I'm around you. Where are you? Are you in the basement? I'm in my layer. Okay. Lower layer. Because crime might need to be fought.

Oh, God. Wait, what songs have been written about you? The songs that have been written about me have been written by the greatest performer in the history of the world, Jennifer Lopez. I don't know that they're exactly so much about me as maybe inspired. by because, you know, because there's some negative things. So they're aimed at you.

I was going to say, are they flattering? She's amazing, yes. Can you imagine? And also, there is a third song written about me, but not by anyone gifted. Jimmy Kimmel wrote a song about me called Un Fucking Ben Affleck.

Wait, did, uh, did he really? Did Jennifer write the songs about you during or when you weren't dating? Jennifer, You know what, Jason? Uh-huh. I just want to know if they're happy songs or sad songs.

And I tell you, if you want to ask Jennifer about her career, if you're interested in her work, go ahead and screw your courage to the sticking play and ask her. I learned a lot about her with that great documentary. I love that. That was really cool. Yeah, I loved it. Everybody watched that. That was very good.

Yeah. And by the way, that's the first time, I know we're going to interview you in just a second. But Jennifer Lopez, who was on Will & Grace twice or three times or whatever, Was she unwilling grace? It's funny. And I was, I was, one, two, no times. No, you were, this is the story of my life. Will was, I wasn't.

But she was, but that documentary blew me away because I was like, my God, what the woman has accomplished is astounding. Yeah, and she's just, it takes a big man not to feel inadequate in the face of my wife's many. But, no, but she, but you too, you too, you've accomplished. Oh, I don't feel bad about myself. It's not so, I'm not low self-esteem. I'm not, well, I'm fishing a little bit, but not the, no, the truth is it's amazing. Sometimes I think I, like, completely forget because Lahir's this incredible actress and this incredible performance.

And then we're sitting in the car, you know, and I'm humming along, like I will, you know, the radio. And then a professional singer goes ahead and, you know, sings along and you kind of feel like, well, that's embarrassing. Maybe I should just zip it. Do you know all her music? Don't lie. I do know. Can you sing all of it? of her songs?

Not to you. No, but you know them, though? Like, you can't, I can't get a Jaylo song past you that you haven't heard. Waiting for the night. That's the remix. There it is. I like when Sean does it sound,

it kind of sounds like Cher is doing a re-singing. That was like a share waiting for something. Yeah. I think cross with a go. Now you're making me self-conscious like, oh gosh, if I were on like Jeopardy, would I miss a question?

But I do love her music. It's brilliant. and I know... Who doesn't? Thank you. Yeah, Jason, don't put him on the fucking spot. What do you? What do you know?

You don't even remember your wife's birthday. Yeah. No, I'm pretty sure in that sort of an A. It is surprising. No, wait a second. Now, Ben, uh... Hi. Hi, Ben Affleck.

Like Ben Afflex on here. Hi, Ben. It's kind of great. We don't know each other. Hi, thank you. Somebody. Yes, hi. I don't have the pleasure of knowing you,

but everybody who knows you likes you a great deal. And it's often like, Bateman, you, is he's doing this thing? with Bateman, which is really... It's surprising. It is surprising. It is surprising. And as you know, yes.

So you, but you and Jason have known each other for a number of years? Yeah, I've known just a long time and I had the chance to do like now four movies with the guy. I know. And by the way, the trailer for air looks incredible. It looks amazing for the new movie you guys did that you've

invited Jason to be part of. And any regrets? And you can be honest now. You can be, if you have regrets about it. I got to tell you, I mean, usually, and I hate, you know, when people come on shows and they're like, you know, you're great. No, but what you bring, because it's just so fucking boring to listen to. Yeah, yeah. But I'm going to do it. And let me tell you why, because it's actually true.

And I've lied so many times that it's nice to get the chance. Jason is fucking amazing. Guys, let him finish. And has the hardest part in the movie, which is the part where you're supposed to, you know, the guy who's like, but if we don't make it to the train station by six, you know, the whole town is constantly having to tell the audience what the stakes are. Look out. What's going to happen?

Turn right. And somehow, like, made himself, you know, the most, I think, like, the most, you know, compelling, real, your drawn. It's brilliant. A lot of it's improv and funny and a lot of it's just humanity. But it's just brilliant. And it was such a, I was really lucky because that, what Matt did, very easy.

You know the weed? You're that guy and you have those lines. You know what this scene is? This is me looking out the window. That's the front of the window. You know, that's going to help you. That's the wind at your back. I was the one working.

Do you know, by the way, you should know, Ben, that we were at, we watched the Super Bowl at Kimmel's. Oh, yeah, I have a problem. Hang on, so we're watching. And at that moment that the ad for your movie came on, Jason and I'm sitting there, and Jimmy happened to kind of drift in right between us. And then I said, hey, quiet, everybody. Here's the commercial for the big movie, and Jason was all excited.

And then there was just a silhouette for a second and then nothing. Silhouette. And then Jason's daughter goes, Dad, I thought you were in that move. Oh, my God. In front of my kids, Ben. That can't be true. It's a true story, right? Jason, is that true?

It's a true story. But listen, there's many different commercials. I mean, it's my fault in the sense that I did see it and not notice. but it's not my fault in the since I didn't make it and let me can I talk to your daughter your daddy's very good this is all a joke but it was actually pretty funny

it was like hey I thought you were in that and everybody goes back to their chips and watching other kids I've been there you know what I mean if things aren't panning out in your career and you've been in the movie and all of a sudden you're like I think I show up in this charade no the worst

no the worst is when you're at the premiere and they go past the point where you know your big scene was and it's now gone and they've moved on and you're like oh guess that was cut. You're like mom no this is where I have the monologue oh oh oh maybe it comes later

now I don't know if it's during the credits I saved it for during the credits anyway I'll do it for you at home it'll probably need special features so Ben talked to me a little bit about you know we had Matt who came and joined us on on tour he came to Madison Wisconsin when you think Madison Wisconsin you think Matt Damon

that's the thing about Matt is he'll always do something nicer than me. It was like, Hey, what you're doing is great. You know, Matt went a whole lot further. No, no. No, great. No, but we did.

But we talked to him about about how you guys started, how you guys knew each other back in the day and what that was like when you guys were kind of... Yeah, it was really cool. Yeah, it was great really hearing from him and I'd love to hear your perspective

of how you guys... And I'm sure you've told it a million times, so forgive me if it's boring. But for us, it's really... I love that story. And I told Matt, I remember we made this really bad, I say bad, my friend wrote it, but this really pretty chinty version of a movie called Southie,

and you guys came to the rap party that I was in. And then you guys were about to do Goodwill Hunting. And then our movie was like, they buried it under a couch somewhere, and then you guys went on to, like, amazing. But I just love the beginnings of what you and Matt did, and I want to hear it from you, because I think it's a great story. And by the way, I had no idea you guys grew up

so close to each other. No idea. Yeah, we did. First of all, it's like, it's a really lucky thing, it occurs to me now. I saw him the other day, and we're doing this movie together. Very few people are lucky enough to spend their life in the same line of work with their best friend when they were kids, managed to, you know, stay friends, not end up eating each other, actually be friends and love each other.

And not have one of them soar to the stratosphere and the other one be, have. nothing ever happened. But no, no, but I'm saying like, that's like, that's what usually happen. The fact that both of you guys are superstars. Yeah. So in context, the reason we're asking this hacky question is because in air,

the film that we're talking about, Ben, for the very, very first time, directs Matt. I love it. It's full circle. I love it. I love it. Yeah. I mean, it was something that seemed really normal and that I took for granted because there we were.

We were kids who, he was a bigger kid for a, brief period. I was eight, he was 10, he was a big kid, he played baseball, he was really cool, he had a bowl cut that was a little feathered that we all wanted of course, and he was, you know, nice to me, and we were both

interested in the same, me just kids who grew up two blocks apart and both wanted to be actors for whatever reason it is that makes you want to do that thing and hung out and then we're in the same friend group and then sort of went off and did

and like, oh, let's, you know, we're just like dumb and enough to think, like, it'll pan out for us, but we'll just go be actors, we'll just go work, you know, and kind of sort of believe in it and then live together. But I think the reason why it wasn't a thing, that sort of competition thing that you talk about, is because we did a lot of auditioning very early on for the Mickey Mouse Club, for example.

I think maybe for some adjacent early work. Gosselin got the Mickey Mouse job. He did. He was one of them. We did a Corey Hame film called Soulman, I remember. We both auditioned for. We both auditioned for Robin and the Clooney movie. No way. Yeah, we were extras together all the time. Matt did Mystic Pizza. He had a line in that. I didn't get it.

And always the thing was we would get our little act together and practice our scenes and do our workshop. I mean, nerdy doesn't even begin to describe it. Really? But it really was a genuine thing where we were able to be like, look, I hope. hope I get the part. But if I don't, I really hope you do. And, you know, for a while, we had this thing where we're like, well, just split all our money. You know what I mean? Oh, you guys had high voices. We like, oh, you know. Did you really say that? We really did. And we really split the money. No way. At the time, I was making the lion's share of

the money. Yes. No way. How old were you? Yes, I am. We had a joint bank account. I think I was, I was 14. That was 16. Oh, wow. That's cool. That's really cool. That's awesome. the ATM and then it's like, okay, what do you want to get? I saw you made a big withdrawal last weekend. Joking as much as you are, but it does show that on a certain level there is a trust there that you guys just trust each other implicitly, that there's just, right, that that's on a very basic level. I like took for granted that he liked me and rooted for me and wanted me to succeed.

We just didn't, we're lucky enough not to have the friendship of that, the whole, like, it's not enough that I succeed. All my friends have to fail thing. And there are people I've wanted to. fail. You know what I mean? Like, I can be just as petty and bitter as any other actor, but I loved them and he loved me and it felt like we would work the scenes together and, you know, it actually, I think it made us sort of good writers and better actors was that we learned very early on to hear like, I'm not sure that works that choice, you know, and you go, okay, let's try something else,

you know, and get our facts, our sides. Let's try a lower voice. Do you ever give that note? That, I had to hit puberty. I had to hit puberty. So wait, but when you say you grew up, You grew up together in Boston, right? But you were born or raised in California? Like, what's the California thing? I was born in California. My parents were at a teaching at a like an experimental school outside Berkeley briefly. And then, actually, my mom, yes.

And then I moved back to Boston around two or three. I moved into a central square in Cambridge. And then Matt moved there from Newton when I was eight. And he was 10. And that's when he met at the basketball. And you got a Burr. Burger King commercial, that was your very first thing? Listen, I had done a Burger King commercial.

Okay, I'm sure you remember the slogan was sometimes you got to break the rules. Yeah, sure. Oh, yeah, a little bit of a rule breaker. Really quick, I did it, I did it, these guys are going to love this. I did a McDonald's commercial, one of my first things where I worried, I worried about how I was going to impress a girl. And the catchphrase from my guy scene partner was, don't worry about it. I was like, how am I going to pay for the date?

Don't worry about it. That's my story. So, wait, go back to the burger. Holy shit. The fuck are you doing. Ben's got a head of steam going. You're going to be out of the job. You'll be without a podcast.

There's no fucking punchline. Out of gas. Jesus. Boy. Wait. So, anyway, let me just, can I regroup? Do you mind? Oh, yeah.

Take all the time. Just go out of it. Shake it all. Wait, and then you think he's crying. We, so we were, I've established that we were very nerdy and a little weird. We used to have business lines. in what was called the media cafeteria. Amazing.

Which at the time, there was a big ESL portion of our public high school, which was like 2,600 kids, and that was where the ESL kids, I don't know why that was where we, we like to be surrounded by people who spoke other languages. I'm not sure what it was, but maybe we didn't want him to actually hear our business lunches because no business was conducted. Yeah. But we plotted things.

We planned our careers. But look at you now. Look at the business you guys are in now. artist equity, yes? Yeah. Yeah, it is bizarre, like, to have gone this far. And definitely a lot of, I don't think I would be sane, as sane to the extent that I am,

had I not had somebody who was from where I grew up and who was my best friend and who was going through the same thing. So you could, because I'm sure you guys, oh, no, there are these moments in this business where you look around and go, like, is this completely insane? Yeah. I feel as though, you know, I'm coming unglued. And having that one, someone to share that perspective.

And then so as we went on and on, and so finally got to a place where, like, with Last Duel, it's like, why haven't we just, we had so much fun. Every day on that set was so much fun. And we were just like, let's just do this. Let's just do movies together and with people we like. And we will be right back. And now, back to the show.

going back, the first thing that kind of launched was it dazed and confused or was it something before that? And what's the story about Vince Vaughn? He's asked a two-parter there. You can take him one at a time or you can ask him to repeat it when he just... I get excited. I get excited.

I know it. We didn't crap in the pre-interview, the Vince bit. I don't know where you're going with that. No, but I heard... I do know... Yeah? I do know that we... I had done a couple of...

I was the more experienced. I don't want to make Matt feel insecure. Sure. I had some early experience with professional acting. You're selling burgers, you know? Well, not only I sell burgers, but I don't know if you know your public television history. I was on a show. Voyage of the Mimi.

No, Voyage of the Mimi. Yeah. Science. It was also shown to sixth graders for their science class, because I think because it was so gripping. And a young boy and his grandpa renting out a boat to scientists for experiments. Yeah. And so I would periodically go off and do a little Voyage of the Mee's. me. So Matt was a little threatened by that.

And when I got to the high school, he kind of pulled me aside. And he said, listen, ma'am, all right? This is the theater. It's not about your looks. Okay? It's about the work. And I took that very seriously. I felt that I was hearing something, you know,

real, like the words of wisdom from a guy who understood it. I didn't know until that time he felt I'd been entirely bogarting my way through life on, like, and charm and looks, of which there were very few. No, it sounds like actually you came roaring into high school just killing it. Yeah, you were crushing him.

And Matt, and Matt, I mean, by the way, I mean, again, no insult to Matt, but it sounds like he felt threatened by you, Ben. And I want to just... I think maybe he was a little... The other thing he said to me was like, you know the thing about Hoffman and salesman is you can see the wheels turning? But he wants you to see the wheels turning. Matt Damon, 15 years old, Matt.

No way. That's hysterical. That's a true story. That's fucking amazing. That's why he's brilliant. Because that guy has been absolutely convinced and has paid attention to, like, you know, very little else in his free time other than acting.

Since he was a little kid doing Wheelock Community College Theater when he was 11 years old. And he's been with absolute conviction that this is what he was going to do. And he was a lot smarter about it to me. He understood a lot earlier on. He was like, it's just all about the director. I'm just going to focus on the director. He was like passing on parts when we were broke.

And I said, what are you passing on? You can't pay the gas bill. What's like, how is this not good enough for you? Because he didn't like the director? Yeah, he just didn't feel he didn't have anything to offer, you know? Wow. I was like, I'm like, I'm doing after school specials about steroid abuse. You're passing on, like, movies.

That's pretty great. But I will say this. you gave him a piece of advice that he has since paid for and given and he led us in on it last year when he came to join us, which was, apparently you said to him,

if somebody asks you to do something down the road, imagine that the thing, you know, get it all the time. Hey, well, you come and do this six months from now and come to show up at this thing. Imagine that you would have to do it tomorrow and then let that be your answer. Yeah, if you don't want to do it tomorrow, say no.

Yeah. I did give them. I never thought that was particularly wise. Ben, I just thought, no, it's the greatest ever. Because Matt was constantly saying yes,

and then be like, hey, man, can you call them and tell them I'm sick? Right. And that's bullshit. It's amazing. I've told minimum 50 people, that piece of advice is as if I came up with it my own. And they have people love it and have latched onto it.

Right, J.B.? We've talked about it all the time. I live it. I did it today. I got asked to do something like three months from now that sounds kind of interesting. It would be kind of fun. But then I thought, well, actually, if it was on the calendar for tomorrow,

would I wish that it was canceled? If the answer is yes, pass. Pass. You know, the thing about that that I can't completely co-send, my dirty little secret is, I might pass on everything. Did you think about... I almost never want to get off the camera?

Did you think about this show today, about passing on the show? Oh, I mean, I was a half a while late, wasn't it? Yeah. They had to talk you out of it. So, for the guy who likes to do... nothing except sit on his couch every day like I do, I find it interesting that you're actually able to get up and work as hard

as I think anybody could possibly work when it comes to directing. Like that's a really, really all-encompassing job. So are you like me where it's like either all or nothing? I'm either working full or out. I think you and I have that in coming. Yes. And I think that part of it is, it's a little bit like

it's more sort of social things like I'm I feel actually kind of shy I don't really want to go say hi to people I feel a little bit like oh I'm gonna you know something's gonna happen and it's gonna make me feel awkward but I I love directing movies and that movie in particular

was the best experience I've had and directing is hard and terrifying at first I thought like okay even if I don't know anything about this I know that I can at least work harder than everybody else and so I thought well you put in 20 hours a day and that's what you do

and it made it excruciating and I got migraines but to the extent that the movies you know were I was happy with I thought well it must be because I worked 20 hours a day and did nothing else and thought of nothing else and eventually realized that you don't quite have to do it that way and that actually this movie which is my

the favorite movie I ever made I love this movie it benefits entirely from the writing and acting of Jason and Matt and Chris and Viola and and Chris Sina and Matt Mayer but it was so much fucking fun every day Yeah well you're It's your fault

I mean he'd well we don't have to do a whole thing on the kind of set you run And your talent and everything but it was No no no we can actually I think we have to do we have we have 20 It was uh it was actually incredibly easy guys We shot this down the street We shot it in in a business in an office building That um we're supposed to be in an office building So they basically just flipped the lights on.

Now that's to take nothing away from Bob Richardson, who is like the best DP in the history of movies. But it was very fast. I think after, wasn't it after like seven days? We were already three days ahead. Yeah, we went, I wanted to go quickly, and then you and Matt showed up. And like having not directed Matt, I didn't appreciate it.

When you're a director, right, you have your plans, you're worrying about all these other things. Yes, you're worrying about the performances, but I thought, okay, well, I won't have to do. worry about the performances and I'll just worry about all the other sort of bullshit I'm doing that I think is relevant when really the actors are the only thing the audience is paying attention to and like you know camera moves and that kind of thing and Jason and Matt are such pros that no I mean it was like a dance to watch these two guys

together they've done it so much and so well so that as soon as you start to feel the dolly is late it's not going to be all of a sudden Jason's looking in his pocket for something that might be behind him and that looks behind him and all that looks behind it and all all of a sudden, he makes maybe a little more mournful choice on that line delivery, because it's going to give him an extra half step to the turn, or he knows the steady cam's going to come right. The two of the guys, I started feeling like,

you're like making it for me. Stop doing this. It's too. I love that. It really was amazing. In fact, it got to the point where because Bob's crew and everyone was so good, they started anticipating and trying to do it.

And then the guys who were really good and women who were doing it were like, it started to just speed up, And finally I was like, Matt and Jason don't do their job for him. You don't have to do everybody's job. Yes, I know you're great at it. But just worry about the scene. Because I think they kind of started having fun with it.

Like, because I had oneers and you'd have to see this. And Matt and Jason would know, like, you're probably going to want that magenta in the background. So I thought you'd like the window. And I was like, you, son of it. Yeah, I did want the window. I didn't think I was that transparent. Did you, do you, can you remember having any sort of significant creative negotiation with Matt? in the writing process or in the directing process,

like giving him a note that he didn't want to take or writing a scene that he thought was kind of fine already. Because didn't you have the writing process like Goodwill Hunting him back in college where you would... Well, they won an Oscar. You would talk about it or improv it and record it? We record it, yeah.

On what were audio cassettes at the time. Kids, those were small, brown tape cassettes. No, really? Put in devices. Wait, really? You guys talked out the script? Yeah, because we never thought of ourselves as formal writers.

We had a great drama teacher in high school who taught us kind of sort of writing, directing, acting, and didn't sort of put them in distinct silos. So we would actually end up making plays, which we later, I later realized we were act, right, direct them in effect, but we just thought we would improvise them and kind of distill them down and find a story. Such a great idea.

So that's just how we know how to do it. This person did you such a favor by doing that by sort of putting it all together, right? There's no question without Jerry Speck or Matt or I or my brother or Matt Mayer or Max Casella or Nicola or all the people that came out of the program who are working and who are terrific would I think be working because he was he he he taught us that and he taught us to like to not take ourselves seriously respect other people but take the work that we were doing incredibly seriously and that was like that kind of and there's that like great

time of life when you have the older person who's the mentor who you look up to in the who's who's doing the thing you want to do, who says, this is meaningful, but you really have to work hard at it. And so we did. Ben, is that, so that was a teacher that you guys had at your public high school that you went to? Our public high school just lucked out and got this guy who's a genius. That's so amazing.

And he was amazing for kids that didn't even end up wanting to be in theater. And he was, I could do a whole thing on him. But the truth is, I think that's part of why I learned to be collaborative is that Matt and I never fought or argued about stuff. It was always that we, and we never got our feelings hurt because most of the ideas are bad. So I'll have a bad idea, he'll have a bad idea. I'll have a bad idea, he'll have a bad idea.

I'll have an idea what that's a little bit that may be better. And that kind of key is something in Matt that's mediocre. You know what I mean? So we know we're building from there and it's never about, and then it just becomes about like finding the best thing until both of us feel like it can't be improved. And we kind of go like, and if there is a kind of difference of a difference of a piece,

opinion, it always ends up coming down to who cares more. Yeah. I go, I don't know. I really think this is about the, and he's like, man, that, and I go, huh, all right. If you don't want to do it more than I want to do it, then we're not going to do it, you know. Or if I want to do it more than you don't want to do it, we're going to do it. Like, that's just common. Amanda and I try to live by that.

There she is. Oh, look it's Jennifer. There she is. Hi. She can't hear us. Hi. Hi. Hi, Jen.

Hi. Hi, guys. You were just doing very well. We were talking about you in very favorable terms, and so was your husband. Oh, thank you. I was singing some of your songs back to you. Oh, sing, please sing.

Waiting for the night. Oh, my love. It's waiting for two night. Waiting for two nights. Oh, that's the mic drop right there. But thank you. She crushed it. That's when we're lucky that.

That is brilliant. Thank you for saying hi. Yes, of course. Bye, Jennifer. You should be looking forward to doing this with your guys. Oh, good, I love you. There's the part that we'll make the show. By the way, we just bypassed,

Jason, I didn't know this term creative negotiation. Way to take the art out of it, man. You fucking find a way every fucking time. Just business, my friend. No, no, you have to negotiate. Canal Street. How much for the batteries? Hey, Picasso, how much painted you use?

How many cubic liters have painted you use? That's the beautiful thing. Just take the fucking art out of it, baby, and fuck you. You see, Picasso never had to negotiate with anybody because it's just a single thing. What we're doing is like team stuff, right? That's true. That's true.

It is a lot of negotiations. I mean, the lucky thing is when you don't have to negotiate, when you go like, you know, you do something, you write it, you give it to him, and then Jason sits down and reads the scene. He made me cry on this. And then you feel like a jerk because you feel like that guy who just, like, was it Marty Short or whatever, who's to go and then

you know you just want to give one of those. What's the name of that character? Jimmy Glick? Jimmy Glick, I just watched it last night. I have a question. Mr. Affleck. So, so to wrap up the Matt stuff,

we'll leave him out of the rest of the interview, but the, because we've had enough of Matt, right? I mean, Will, with you, with your wordal, quirtle and squirtle every morning. I want to get in on that. And Matt was like you're not ready. I'm not, I removed myself from it.

Jason dropped out, he couldn't take the heat. No, it's not the heat. It's, it's Will likes to tell you how much better his score could have been had he done X, Y, or Z. Anyway, that's really, but. Wait, wait, I wanted to close the map part of it. Yes, yeah. Tell for the, and you could, I know I would love to do a full podcast with you about artist equity and all the sort of studio economics at your own buddy.

They didn't, he told me you didn't want to do this one. We put our audience to sleep. So for those that have narcolepsy, do the quick version of, generally what the concept is, what you guys are doing versus what exists and why that makes sense for you guys doing this since your buddies, and you want to kind of spread that kind of buddy feeling in the process.

It's a tough elevator pitch, and I over talk and go on too long, so it's a bad combo. Sean will cut you off, don't worry. Basically what it is, is like over the years, as I'm sure you have, we start to kind of know it, like there's money that gets spent on things

that don't end up making the movie any better. And the more money that you spend on what you do, the more obligation you have the sort of more risk there is and the less likely people are to do things that you consider more interesting and they want to be more conventional. And then I looked around and I just as a director started to really understand and value the people on the crew who made such a significant difference to the quality of what you're doing,

both in terms of speed and in terms of. terms of the environment and the way in which you're able to perform. I'm a big believer that the performance really ultimately is what draws people in and performance and the writing. And so came up with this idea, never thinking anyone would ever actually fund us, to do a movie studio that was predicated on two things. Basically, allowing the crew and the artist being the writer, and I consider the crew the artist, which is the whole group, actors, directors, writers, so on as well.

cinematographers, sound mixers, everybody who collectively create the value in what we're doing to benefit from the upside of it in a really meaningful, significant way, but also to be responsible for it. In other words, listen, if it goes over, you're going to get less. If it comes in under, you're going to do better, but all of us have to make it good. Otherwise, we're not going to get anything. And sort of treat people like grown-ups, believe they can be accountable and also believe that, you know, because incentives have not historically been aligned between the people

financing movies traditionally and the people making them always. And so without going into too great of detail, the idea was like, and let's separate this out from like what is the value of a movie? Well, usually they'll use comps. Like, well, what's the budget? And what did you make on your last movie? And especially now because there's no back end and no gross, that's sort of it, right? Right.

Well, I've always felt that was akin to going into the Apple store and saying, I'll tell you how much I give you for the iPhone, when you tell me how much you paid the guy that put it together. But that's, you know, you don't, that's not how it works, right? So why does it have to work in the other way? So by being agnostic as a financier and producer, this studio, and we had to then, you know,

hire all the business affairs, illegal and physical production and so on so that we could be an entity significant enough to take on the entire creative responsibility of developing, producing, shooting, and delivering the movie. and in exchange we got to say, look, this is what it's going to cost. It won't cost a dime more than that.

If it goes over, we pay for it. But you have to sort of, we're going to be the ones who take on the burden, the role of saying, we're going to deliver something good. If it's terrible, it's our fault. But you're going to sort of put your trust in us to be able to do this.

I'm sure, whatever partners that we work with, there are excellent, brilliant people who are distributing and marketing movies. We don't do that. We don't want to do very many movies. But we want to just really make good movies with people we like. I love that.

And that's it. And we think people should be paid more for what they... So you're basically taking on the financial risk by funding the production effectively. And then you're saying we don't need... You don't get the leverage financier by giving us the money to make it, assuming that we don't have it to make it. We actually do. We're going to spend the money to make it.

And we're basically coming to you and saying, we'd like to sell you this product. We're going to take care of the wholesale part. Here's the retail price. who wants to buy it. Exactly. Yeah? It makes a lot of sense.

That's what he just said. He just said. I'm trying to see if my brain heard it right. We'll be right back. And back to the show. So now, but then once you have finished the completion of a film, you now have to enter into a whole other thing because you're going out there to distributors.

Yeah. So are you working with all different distributors, all different changes. Business is like there's all sorts of changing a lot. You have streamers. You have, you know, the companies are theatrical and streaming. And so, and that's, nobody's quite figured that out yet.

My feeling is people are watching things and interested in them, and that's going to be ongoing, how they figure out the economics of where they place value on it. You know, if we keep our focus to a few things and try to make them really good. And also, I really felt like, you know, interesting, original dramas, comedy, sort of ideas, were starting to fall away from the theatrical world. Yes. It was kind of like, nah, that's not in movie theaters. And so with this movie, and this movie,

themes are kind of congruent with the ideas and the philosophy of this business like what are the people worth and how should they be compensated and isn't this the story itself i think is interesting me if i want people to go see movies like this stuff yeah i i watch watching your trailer i thought the first time i saw it i thought nobody gets to make movies like this anymore because we've lived in a in a world where and everybody has benefited and participated to a certain degree in these sort of whatever you call them, these temples or these... Including me. Yeah, no, that's what I mean.

Everybody, all of us have benefited in certain ways. However, what happened was the result of that is that these other kinds of movies that you're talking about. Without special effects. Without special effects and that are story-driven and that are character. Well, your hair, but beside that. Yeah. Those things don't really, those kind of movies don't really exist as much anymore. Not in the theaters.

And this one's going to 3,000 screens, right? Well, part of the problem is fucking Oz. Because it used to be that, you know, to put out a movie, you were competing, you know, like Law & Order or whatever, Magnum. You know what I mean? You had an 11-inch black and white, and you could watch Simon and Simon, or you could go see, you know, murder at 1600. Oh, my God. And now, you've got Succession and Ozark and really good fucking stuff where people at home go, you know what? And I can pause.

I can watch tomorrow. That's made it very difficult. But it looks like they're approaching a good combo where you're getting a nice window of time in the brick and more. theater. You can see it on a big screen if you want. Or you can wait, what is it? I think it's now basically six weeks before it'll be at your home as opposed to the old method was like three months. I'm really grateful to Amazon.

The first time they're really going for the, we're going to do a theatrical, traditional, you know, 3,500 screens out in the theaters, go see, you can't like wait to see it for free like not sort of upstaging it with a sub-very-impending free version at home. This is Amazon, right? Amazon, yeah. And they really are taking a flyer on this. really, I mean, I hope it works honestly for, obviously, for the movie, but also so that we can do it again. And the reason why, going back to that model, the one thing that we do ask is that,

like, the Hollywood model is kind of like I get paid in failure, right? Right. Like, I still have the money, and I spent it, but like, I made money on Gilely. I didn't have to give it back. Right. You know what I mean? Like, everyone else went broke, and I got a car, you know? So this is like, we're not going to get paid here. We're just going to spend what it costs to make the movement. movie itself. We're all going to show up and invest our time and energy. And if it works,

and if it's successful, and if it's financially successful, you'll get paid, whether you're the cinematographer, whether you're the writer of the director, much more otherwise than you would have. But the relationship between how you're compensated and how what you connects to audiences

is really direct versus just like, hey man, you know, I don't get out of bed for less than whatever. And that's what I kind of, you know, that ends such a nice thing to not have that vibe. you know, where the people who are doing it just want to be there.

And I think this film's got a real good chance of hitting that sort of zeitgeist thing only for two reasons. Number one, it's a story we all think we know, but we don't. The whole story about how and why Nike got into business with Michael Jordan when Michael Jordan entered the NBA. And this whole start of this sneaker, this whole Air Jordan thing, it's an incredible American business story that no one really knows how it went together. and this movie explained it, and you're releasing it during March Madness,

which I think is genius. And first of all, I hear it's great from a few different people who've seen it. Two of them are in the movie, but they say it's great. Believe them. You can come by the house and watch it any time, by the way. I told Jake, he didn't invite you because I told Jason two or three times. Please ask him to come. He did not.

I think you broke up during that part of the phone call. I'm desperate to see it. And I think Bradley saw it. Anyway, whatever it is, I'm desperate to see it. I think it sounds amazing. Bradley won't let me see his movie until it's mixed. It's really good. That movie's great.

I heard, I read the script and I remember saying to him like, this is, you know, this is the movie. You're talking about Maestro? Dude, my Strauss. Brilliant. Yeah. Incredible.

And the test, it's amazing. It's amazing. It's fucking amazing. Talk about movies that nobody makes. It's the best script I've ever read. It's really, really good. But I was going to say, for your movie, what's great is, because it is, like, as Jason

says, it does tell the story and it's so great. And, you know, people like Jason, this is where they learn stuff, is from the movies because they've never read a book before. They have no life experience. Right, they have no life experience. So, but I, truly, everybody says, and even Jason says this, which you never say, you didn't even, you weren't talking about yourself

about how much you love the movie. I can say that. He legitimately loves it. So it's, I'm very excited to see it. Now, let's talk about Batman. Let's talk about the real thing that everyone was in that. Well, I want to jump in before. Let's get down to business.

No, because the only time we really hung out was when we did that thing with Kimmel about the, Batman, and then I stuck my head in as Lego Batman, and you guys all laughed at me. I thought it was funny. We do have two Batman's on the podcast, Sean. I know, that's kind of cool. It's very cool.

One reel and one, yeah, cartoon. But I saw the trailer for The Flash, and everybody was, like, freaking out when you came on the screen. You know what? That movie's good. That movie's really good. It looks good.

I hear that movie's fucking real. Yeah, I love that. And it's my best shit I've done as, I finally figured out how to play the guy. No, really? I got it. For real? I was like, hold on.

Is that, I quit. I know I quit. And I know I came back to it. But I got it now. It's like, you know, you do the audition and you're on your way home. And you're like, oh, no. Wait, what was the moment? Yes.

Why did the penny drop? What happened? I mean, I don't want to get a spoiler, but it was a scene where I got, I get caught, I get saved by Wonder Woman during a conflagration with some bad guys. Yeah. And she saves me by, I mean, I'm sure I'm like the spoiler, you know, DC assassins. She saved me. She saves you with the lasso of truth.

And so what happens is that Batman divulges some of his real feelings about his life and his work. And it helps you see the character and now you want another chance to play it. I was like, wait a minute, I got it. Are I still, wait, can I guys? Are we still rolling? Can we write another story?

This is the story of my fucking love. By the way, Ben, one time I remember years ago and I asked him about it, I remember Alec Baldwin saying in an interview that he was driving home from Knott's Land when he was on Nott's Landing. And like on a Friday night and just going like, oh, fuck, that's how you do the scene.

And he's like, from that moment on, he made a deal with himself. And he would never leave it, that he would always figure out the scene while he was there. And it always stuck with me, especially because it was Nats Landing. It's so funny. Alex told me a similar story, but totally different.

Is that true? Yeah, he loves this metaphor. He's like, you know why I'm a good actor, but not a great actor. And I was like, no, Alec, and I don't want to answer that. It was like because I was Blinks Kowalski on Broadway. And I, uh, it was the door. He was supposed to leave the screen door. And I guess in some, and the screen door wouldn't open.

And he was exiting. It wouldn't open. I shook it once. And I shook it twice. And I wouldn't open. And so I stepped around it. Right then. Right then, I realized what would Brando do?

He would have kicked it down. He would have kicked it down. And I was like, so, oh, kick it down. He's very focused on that moment after thing. Dude, that's hilarious. I want to ask you about, you've won two Academy Awards, Goodwill Hunting and Argo. Thank you.

I was wondering if we're going to get to that. It's been the Jason Bateman show. Your publicist is like all over me about that. I was like, okay, got it. Hello. Texting, texting. Yeah, no, but I want to talk to you about Argo because you wrote me one of the funniest emails,

which I want to read right now. We can cut it if you want, but it's really funny. Anyway, Victor Garber, who's a friend of ours, right? He was staying in my guest house here while you were filming Argo with three houses down. But go ahead. What's that? He said you were in his guest house.

Yeah, sure, whatever. We swap. We share, like you share a bank account, we share a guest house. We don't want to still share a bank account with Matt. All of a sudden the deal's over after born, you know. But you shot Argo three houses down for me, and I would walk over my pajamas and sit down and watch you direct, and it was super, super fun.

And then you won the Oscar, and I was there at the Oscars. And I wrote an email to you, and I said, I'm so proud of it. I'm so thrilled for you. Then all the other sentences had question marks. I said, I still haven't seen it. And I probably won't get to it. I'll probably have to Netflix it. And someone will have to read the subtitles to me,

but I'm sure I'll love it like everyone in Iran says they do. And then I said, I love your speech, blah, blah, blah. And you wrote back, I saw your little sweet face when I was standing up there accepting my Oscar. in the middle of the greatest triumph of my professional life, I thought, I have got to tell Sean to go tanning. So when I was doing all this research for you today, like all this stuff, I found that old.

I was like, I can look at old emails. I laughed out loud. And then you wrote me another one. Haven't taken me up on it. Still pasty. No, not at all. I'm translucent. So good.

Oh, Benjamin. This has been amazing. way too much of your time. Is it over? They told me it's two hours. So only an hour for me. It's just two hours. You don't usually do it two hours.

It just feels like two. You usually go three. I am a big fan. I got to tell you guys, I love the Mark Maren show. You are wonderful. Oh, shit. Oh, shit.

Oh, shit. Oh, shit. No, the truth is you guys are, you guys are, do a great job. You manage to be very interesting to listen to. And yet very little of substance has ever said. We distract you with all the constant noise. That's all it is.

feels like kind of wonderful. I enjoyed it. It's an honor and a pleasure to be on the show. Thank you for having you. Honestly, God, you are fucking amazing in the movie

from the first time I met you on the day of smoking aces when I walked into that scene and you did the monologue about congenital alcoholism and herpes and a small penis. I have never, you cannot, if you go back and watch that movie,

there is not a shot of me when I'm not like that. That's not from the movie. He was just telling somebody. We were just hanging out then, remember? They put it in the movie. Yeah. It was, I was like, this guy is a genius.

A genius. And I have never forgotten it. And then it's just been a pleasure. You know, he wrote a great scene and directed a great movie. No, no, your fault. Genius. Love Joe. Great in that, great and extract.

I have loved it. We had fun on extract. I think you're a genius. Yeah, you are genius. I do. I think all that you. My mother thinks that word's overused. Yeah, it is.

Usually, because she hears it a lot about her sons. But we're really happy. I will say this. I'm so happy that you're directing movies and you're making movies like this and that you're just continued to do fucking great stuff. I'm a fan.

I love it. This is all I want to do. You do want to direct more than act, right? You love it. You're so good. You know, I started really loving acting finally for real when I was like, I don't want to do this anymore.

I'm just to direct movies. I'm done with this. I don't care. It's just like directing. And then I was kind of like, well, I'm already here. And I can, you know. Do them both, right?

Act in the movies. Correct. And then I just let go. And I remember Sidney Pollock once saying, he was a director and an actor, we did a movie called Changing Lanes 20 some years ago. And he said to me,

you know why I'm a good actor? I was like, no, no, Sidney, right? Because I don't give a shit. Yeah. I was like, I didn't understand at the time, but I know what he's getting at now, which is that so much of it just has to do with letting go

and being relaxed and trying things and not sweating what people are going to think. And, you know, you know, trying the take that at the time Jason and Matt make fun of you for, but later on works in the movie. We know what we're talking about. Wait, really?

Wait, which problem was? It was the take where I really wanted to play my part, and I interrupted Matt and made him wait a second, and you were like, maybe too big. Maybe that's too big. I said that? Uh-oh. No, I believe me, Matt was right out in front of it.

He was like, you can't do that. Hold on, hold on. Oh, wait a second. Oh, wait, is this the one to blast your glass? and the jogging outfit? Oh, no, you were all unequivocal about that, and that didn't make it. That was too big.

Dude, it's on the poster. What do you mean it didn't make the movie? You're on the poster in your phaser glasses and your jumpsuit. That is historically accurate. I get it. No one's going to know that, though. They're just going to be like, oh, boy.

I'm trying to promote it. That's what I'm here. The whole point was to get to the fact that that is not made up. That is the clothes that were worn. And is purple? is purple Porsche and is... He had a purple Porsche that said Nike man.

This is Phil Knight, listener, the guy who created Nike. I can't wait to see it. It's fun. And once I started doing it and doing people I really loved, and it's true, I would... I love directing in a different way, but acting has become really fun.

Tender Bar was really fun. Last Dole was really fun. The way back was really fun, weirdly for a movie about a person whose child dies and is alcoholic. You were awesome. It was like, it become joyful because I started developing my own criterion

and stopped kind of making it about like, you know, as Will says, it's a sexy indifference, right, Will? Yeah. I don't say that, no. I'm going with overweight indifference. Indifference is attractive. Well, whatever you're doing, please keep doing it, man. Thank you.

Just such a fan. You're so great at what you do, and you always have been. And just, thank you very much. And I'm going to hold you guys to it. So you're all in the next one for free. Thank you. Oh, my God.

I told you the model. We just do it for the art. You're amazing for doing this. I'm too handsome for film. Will you let me into the fucking octetle battle or do I, my JVs? Tell Matt. Here it is. Yeah, give my agent your number.

Yeah, no. Okay, great. Does Matt own the invites? Yeah. He's the commissioner? So did he really keep you out? Yeah, totally locked me out. I'll talk to me out.

Well, not even lock me. He was like, maybe, maybe keep working. You know, like that movie. Try the crossword. He finally, I tell him this, this is inside. He finally won today for the first time in like six weeks, and he was ecstatic. Really? Yeah, yeah, he was having a tough time.

But like I see, once I found out that he's in the low 50s, now I may be, I'm wondering if there is kind of an intramural league that I can be, because that is hard. I'm feeling Ben's going to wax all you guys. Yeah, it won't take you long. Believe me, you're a sharp guy. It will not take you long to fucking make us all look like foolish. I'm starting to lose it. You are y'all young.

Ginko. Sure. Ginko. Thanks, guys. I have a question about Batman. Oh, sorry. Sure, sure. Go ahead.

No, that's okay. No, no, feel free. Go ahead, call it. Ben, love you. Thank you for doing this. Yeah, I love you, pal. Seriously, guys. Jason has my number,

and you guys, honestly, God, like, the movie is here, sitting here on the projector, and if you ever want to come at any point, even if I'm not here, is like, set it up, bring the bell, come watch the movie. You probably don't give a shit

and you're going to end up, you know, watch that down. No, no, they do. and you live about three blocks from Will. Okay, so someone has no excuse. Oh, shit. We'll walk over. By the way, we will cut this, but I love the new house.

Yeah? Thank you. Well, the rentals is not too fucking shabby. Is that the one you're talking about, Sean? No, the one that they just purchased. Sean is keeping up with some of our celebrity journals. No, no, no, no. I have a real estate agent who knows.

Oh, man. But, yeah, and I saw it under construction. and I was like, this is amazing. So I'd love to see it when it's done. You are the first to be invited. We heard it. We got it recorded. Thank you, Benjamin.

We love you. I love you. I love you all. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Bye, bud.

Wow. Well, that guy. Fucking Wadage, Sean. So when we were talking about... Big star Wadage. I mean, we had Damon on tour, and that's fine. That was fine. But then we have Ben, Affleck.

And just coming here with the fucking Wadage. You're like, well, that's, that's the region. That's a star. Yeah, through outer space. Yeah. Through the outer, not like, remember a fucking match going up in like a fucking hoodie? And he fucking, you know what I mean? Just get through the interview.

Just get through the thing. And then Ben shows up and he's handsome and he's talented and he's smart as fuck. He's prepared. And he's prepared. Yeah. His hair is gorgeous. Yeah. Hang on a second.

Jason, Jason, Jason, Jason, let me see your hands real quick. I want to see your hands while you're talking about it. It's really dark where you are. No, all jokes aside, wow, that was awesome. Yeah, and when I was doing like the research, you know, learning about him and stuff about his past and whatever,

I was like, and then you go through his credits, you're just like, wow, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Huge. Like, bang, bang, bang, hit after hit after hit after hit. Yeah. He's been so relevant and talented

and successful for so long and I feel like he's only halfway done. Yeah, and I think, I don't know if this is true. Does anybody know, hasn't he played Batman more than any other actor? I'll bet. I think that that might be... I think he might be right.

Yeah, I think so. He's played it five times, I think. Really? That's just... Yeah. I'm so happy for him. Yeah. And this movie, he just...

He crushes it, and Matt and him did a great job writing a lot of the stuff, too. He's such a natural as a director. I mean, Jason, it's kind of what you talk about. When you spend all that time, you know, doing... And you've got a head on your shoulders, and you spend it all that time on set

and in that environment. Yeah, you've got to absorb something. You absorb something, and you can kind of apply it. And he had... You have done. done it and he has done it and he's made so many great films you know as you said uh Sean Sean no no I know but what was the one about Iran the hostages uh Argo Argo so Argo so Argo the town is amazing as well that's another great film that he's right yeah the town I love

really really good yeah see that's what I'm saying I didn't even get a chance to talk to him about about the town that was so good I know well because you had you were asking you know you had too many questions about at a left field. He just texted me, I hate Sean. Oh, like spelled it S-H-A-W-N, but the hate is spelled correct. No way.

No, that's not true. No, he's the guy, my God, what an interesting lot. I'd like to read his book. I want to read his book. I want to read Downey's book. Just a book. Any book would be great.

It's top to bottom left to right. Yeah, as long as the, As long as the book has a... Binding center. Those pages are bound. That works. Oh, no. He doesn't even know how it works.

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