SmartLess - "RE-RELEASE: Kerry Washington"

Episode Date: September 11, 2025

The incredibly talented actor/producer Kerry Washington joins us this week to give us a safer-sex education. Sean becomes our next Barbara Walters, Will makes a promise he’ll never break, while Jason confirms the level of college education in the group… and we’re just a few credits shy, folks. That’s why it’s called SmartLess. Kanpai!This episode was originally released on 8/1/2022. Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of SmartLess ad-free and a whole week early. Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus.

Hello, listener. My name is Jason. I will be one of three hosts. I'm an on-time host. You're going to have a couple of tardy hosts joining us soon. If not, you're just going to get me. Just a solo episode with me. I hope that's not your future. But until then, let me tell you a little bit about myself. I'm a Capricorn, Saj Moon. I love things sweetened with anything other than sugar. I've had addiction issues. I've got a handle on that, I think, unless you put something sweetened with sugar in front of me. It's a real trigger situation for me. I just go right down a hillside full of sin. Oh, just in time. Here are the idiots.

Guys, welcome to smartless. Smart. Smart. The listener does not know this, but this is our second episode today that we're recording. So what did you guys do in between shows? I had a little egg sandwich. I had pasta. That I made myself, not an egg salad sandwich like Sean would have made.

You had an egg sandwich? Now, what was the bread? Was it actual bread? Not really. What was it? It was gluten-free bread. that you know I had to toast to within an inch of its life so it tasted decent and then I put a little fake butter on it and then the eggs on top of it okay okay hang on to that I'm pretty sure the eggs were real we had a conversation with our friend on a different episode of the about enjoying ourselves and stuff you know but I feel that but it isn't but that I enjoy it tastes great I enjoy it. I enjoy. Now, last night we went out for a family dinner to this

yummy little restaurant down the street that specializes in Italian food. So I ordered a nice big fat cheese pizza and I whiffed down more of that than probably I should have. And we had some pasta and I had in B.A. In B.H or in the valley? Down in Laurel Canyon. Oh, little potch. Yeah. Yeah. Little Pachanel. Oh, you went you went Pache, not Pach. No, I know, but I say Potch, you leave it off. That's how you know that you're legit. You leave it off. That's how we go.

Hey, there's MAPE and she can't hear us. Yeah. Oh, wait. That was, Hi, Maple. That was Maple, yeah. She's over here.

Are you guys going for dinner tonight together? We're going to go, no, we're going to go over to our friend's house and we're going to celebrate our friend, Sean, because he's... He had a birthday a while ago. Yeah. He had a birthday a while ago.

And we... I wish I could be there with you guys. I know. I know. I'm going to be. miss you well well you know we'll face time you if you facetined in last week i'll face time i will face time again yeah face time in again i will i will this face you got to give it time for that does the rest of your body is the rest of your body is the rest of your body as dark as your face will

yeah yeah of course no i didn't ask to see it put your top back on i know that is a tan like nobody's ever seen it's really good so do you read though you said you read three books while you were there was it just for the bounce effect of the paper so you or do you enjoy reading It's the sun take over. What were the three books? Do you remember them? Were they all nonfiction? Were they all World War II books?

The Giving Tree? No. Again. I haven't finished my third, to be honest. What were the first two? Were they just airport fiction? Well, one of them is my dad's book, Being Fate. Which I finally read, which is amazing.

I'm so proud of my dad, Jim Arnett, who wrote a book during the pandemic. And he wrote this sort of fictionalized this novel based on history and got it published. on history and got it published. That's cool. Yeah, it's really cool. And honestly, I was reading it, I was just thinking the whole time, I'm like, I'm so, my dad did this.

I'm so proud of my dad. Yeah. So it's called Bean Fate, and it's really, really good. This is about the bean farmers of Kalamongas? No, no, I think you're... It's a remake of the Bean War or something, right? The Milagro, the Milagro Beanfield War.

That's it. Yeah, good for him. Because I don't think they really got it on the last one. so okay no it's about booze runners back you know prohibition style you know back in the day patch up in Saskatchewan in the Bronfman family etc so i did that and then i read the sympathizer have you guys read that no what is that i feel like i wrote it's uh it's written by um vietnamese american author uh vietnam win it's about the vietnam war uh and it's about the vietnam war and he he himself um is a Vietnamese origin. Descent. Descent and origin, and he came here when he was young. And so it just talks about

the experience of, God, honestly, I couldn't have loved it more. But it's not just about that. It's just about such an unbelievable story of, I don't know, just a guy who led to complex life. And there were so many other colored pictures in it for me. Any pictures of him sympathizing with folks? So many incredible, incredible passages in the book. that just blew me away that I would have to read out loud. I'll check that out. Yeah. I'll bet you $1,000 that you don't.

You won. Yep. Why? Now, how do you decide what you're going to read when you're on the beach there? Like, reading in the sun makes you want to... What I do is... Right?

Sorry, then I just started... I'm now reading this Splendid in the Vial, which a lot of people have read. These are big books. The Sympathizer won the Pulitzer Prize. Reading in the sun, to me, it's like being trapped in a hot car with the wind

Windows rolled up, stuck, broken. I don't know when the driver's coming back, and I have a three-year-old screaming in my ear. Yeah. That's what reading on a hot beach sounds like to me. Really? Yeah, because I'm already sweating and I'm still. And I have to concentrate on, like, word?

Yeah. And I got the hard bounce off the paper. No, I can't do it. I got the sunglasses on, and now the sweats, dripping on the glasses. I got to keep wiping the glass. And I hear all the people having fun in the water. Yeah.

It's I can't. You know what, though? I'm snacky. I get real hungry on the beach. You know what's amazing is our guest today. Great segue. Our guest today is so fun. I love her.

She's like a big megastar. No big deal, whatever. Wait, I've got it. It's a woman. I've got it. She's been on one of the hottest primetime dramas in the last few decades. She's born and raised in the Bronx.

She's a New Yorker through and through. This might give it away. At a young age, she performed with the award-winning. Tadda, youth theater teen group. She graduated college with a double major in anthropology and sociology. Clearly not the right point for her to do. Before winning an Emmy,

one of her earliest acting kids was, I got to ask her about this, a traveling sex education sketch group. Her last name is not only a U.S. state, but also an apple. Please welcome the beautiful and extremely talented, Carrie Washington. Carrie.

Hello, Carrie. Hi, you guys. Oh, let's get right into it. A traveling, what is it? A sex-ex-education sketch group. What is that? It was not sketchy, although we did sketches. We were, oh, my God, that's where we're starting.

Okay, I'm so nervous, by the way. I'm such a, I'm such a mega fan of the show, so I'm really excited and a little nervous. No, my. Listen, we're just hanging out. Yeah, you can already hear what idiots we are, right? Well, every episode, but that's why we love you. So, okay, so... Bring us up.

I, when I was a high schooler, when I was a teenager, I worked for the Adolescent Health Center in New York City, at Mountside Hospital. And it was like the beginning of the AIDS epidemic, like late 80s, early 90s. And we used to, we wrote these sketches, these skits about safer sex issues and losing your virginity and drug abuse and LGBTQ rights.

And so it was like I like I find you attractive I find you attractive hold on let me get a condom What was like how do you ask your boyfriend to put a condom on or how do you put a condom on or how do you make that conversation sexy? Because all the research was like people have the information but the behavior change is not there so we used to write I'd love to hear the first few things I would too I would too by the way I've had God Carrie it's like you gave me a bat and you put me at the plate and I've just been standing here and you just been throwing softballs up and I'm doing all my best because I want to impress you don't look back don't because I don't want to be just a total dirt bag and I'm just like in... Be yourself, well, be yourself. It's hard. This is your space. I'm a guest in your house.

Do you so. What was the draft that made it to the stage on how to put on a condom in a funny, funny way? Well, we used to teach kids how to put condoms on by using bananas. So that always got a laugh. But it was really more like... I mean, the first sketch I was allowed to do

was actually a scene about whether or not I was 13 when I started doing the show. So the only sketch they would let me do in the beginning was should I lose my virginity or not? And it was a whole sketch about like my really cute boyfriend who's kind of pressuring me and I don't know if I should or shouldn't. And then the cool part, and this was actually incredible acting training, was that we would, the problems of the show were unresolved

and we would stay in character after the show. And the audience would like solve our problems. We would ask the audience for advice. So they would, like, be in conversation. Yeah, we stayed in character. Then doesn't that mean the show is still going? No, like, the show would end, and then we'd do a Q&A, but our Q&A would be in character. And sometimes I would be playing, like, more than one character,

so I'd have, like, a baseball hat for the girl who wasn't sure she should lose her virginity, and then, like, a red scarf for the girl who was, like, needed to tell her brother to stop selling drugs. So we had all these different, like, you know, conflict issues, and I got to develop character backstory and learn to be spontaneous, and I found my yes and while doing sex education. What was this group that sounds somewhat charitable and, you know, altruistic? No, no, no, but it sounds like you're, like, doing great thing. I wish I was doing stuff at 13 that was going around and doing, you know, but doing shows. But doing shows for, like, hospitals, and you said this was, like, for...

Yeah, we performed at, like, schools and community centers. How did you get involved in that? That sounds like you were walking around with a bunch of very nice. nice people. I have great parents. I was really into acting and my mom had read that there were auditions for this

I had done children's theater with that company Tadda that was mentioned which is a company in Midtown and this was like for teenagers and my mom had seen an ad about it and my mother's an educator so she was like educational theater is a great thing and then I came home with all these pamphlets about like gonorrhea

and she was like what is this but I would love this see the one act on Conneria. You're like, don't worry about it. We're going to put a condom over a banana. It'll be all good. We're going to fix the world's problems one banana at a time.

A funny thing happened on the way to the theater. Exactly. Wait, Carrie, let's, I want to get this out of the... Okay, guys, I have kind of a long story. I was wondering if we were going to tell the story. We're going to do it. We're just going to get past it. Because how could we not do it? Should Will and I lay down?

Yeah, no. I was shocked that you asked me to be your guest because I was like, there's no way we're not telling this story. Of course we're talking about it. With me being punked by Sean Hay. So these guys have no idea what I'm going to say. So it's like if you can hang in there for like two minutes, which is a long time, but it's a long story. Because here we go.

It's one of the most embarrassing things that's ever happened to me. I was shooting a pilot last year and took a long email to carry, asking her to help me out and email me back. Let me jump in. Yes. loves me. It was that, but it was like from another famous person, so it was okay. And it was like somebody that I

respect and admire. So I was like, oh my God, I was so moved. I was deeply moved. I meant every word. And then there was the ask at the bottom of it. Always. Always, right? So, but she emailed, she emailed me back, asked her for my number, said, I'd love to call you to chat more about it. Great.

Fantastic, wonderful response. At the same time, I was guest hosting a few episodes of Jimmy Kimmel's show, and while there had befriended a producer named Aaron, Aaron Irwin, who's now a good friend. So one night on my way home from the shows, I got a text on my phone saying, I'm watching on Kimmel right now, and you're doing great.

And I was pleased by the message, but I was like, perplexed because I didn't recognize the number. And then I deduced that it was Aaron from Kimmel, who was maybe watching like a rough cut of the show because we just exchanged phone numbers as I left the studio, but I hadn't put her contact and go on my phone. So I pulled over and saved the number in my context. It's Aaron from Kimmel.

I'm at home, cut to, I'm at home eagerly awaiting the call from Sean because this is my number one fan. I mean, my dad doesn't love me this much. And now I think I'm going to get a healing because somebody who loves me is going to get on the phone with me and it's going to change my life. And even though I'm going to say no to the ask, we're going to be friends forever. Right, perfect, right. Big load of junk food just to prop you up.

Perfect. All right, so the phone rings, I pick it up and say, hey, and I see it's Aaron from Kimmel. What's going on? Aaron says, hi, how are you? Your email is so sweet. I couldn't wait to talk. to you. And I said, email, what email? And Aaron says, the email I sent you. And I was like, I don't remember sending you an email. Are you sure? And that's when the tone shifted between us.

And I said, Aaron said, is this Sean? And I said, yeah, who's this? And Aaron says, you didn't send me an email with your number? And then I turned into a total asshole. And I go, I think you have the wrong number. Why don't you check that email and your contact? Then why don't you get back to me? And that's when Aaron was like, that's probably a good idea. So I go sit down. I hang up the phone and I turned to my husband and I'm like, I'm being fucking punked. Because Sean Hayes sent me the nicest email I've ever gotten in my life. I just got off the phone with him and he was such a jerk to me.

And he's acting like I made up the email. I was like shaking. I was so, I was like, why would somebody do that? Does he think I'm untalented? I was so upset. sit down and talk to my husband and I'm chatting I'm telling I just got the craziest phone call and at 15 minutes in the conversation with Scotty I did all the math and like a like a shot in a movie came zooming towards my face I go I jumped up and I screamed holy shit that was Carrie Washington

and credits yeah I texted you back immediately explained everything and went and asked beg for you to call me back and I answered the phone and you were laughing I was I couldn't stop laughing because I was really, like, I thought I was being pranked, and I was so relieved. It was so, so lovely. Wow. Oh, God, that was funny. My feelings were so hurt.

And I was like, oh, I'm being gaslit. Like, he's gaslighting me. You guys have this great, now this great, like shared history. Beautiful history. Are you jelly? You're jealous. A little bit jelly. Because we only met.

Well, we had our dinner. We had our dinner. We sat next to each other. We didn't know each other. You were there. Don't say whoa. You were there. You were across the table.

Yeah, but I mean. When you guys worked for me, you know, you both of all worked for me as a producer. When we worked for me, when we did the Facts Life. Live in front of a studio. Wait, who was at this dinner? What are you talking about? Jason and Will were at a dinner. You know how we, when we did it, we had a cast dinner to kick off for our episode,

which I wasn't a producer then, so I have not. Oh, that's right. You were produced on the set. That's right. But I produced in the next two. And so these gentlemen, I came to the cast dinner. Oh, we're talking about your sister for your sister. This makes me so happy.

I'm in the family. We, for Norman Lear's live in front of a studio audience, which all three of you have graced us and blessed us with your performances. And likewise, as you have. Yeah. And if it weren't for really active producers like you and Justin Thoreau, that show would not be moving at all. I do a lot more than Justin Thoreau.

Let me tell you something. I just want to put that out there. Justin Thoreau, and he must be nominated for a, you know, Producers Guild Award this year. Because, I mean, this guy got in there. He rolls up his sleeves He would have rolled them out If he had any sleeves

He would roll him up for sure What is it with your thing With people not having sleeves? No, just Justin Everybody wears them except him Yeah, every day of his life He has a cutoffer And by way, sometimes people

don't have them With the gym and stuff But not everybody just doesn't wear them Ever Even basketball players now Wear sort of like Under sort of long sleeve thing Over their cuff

You know what usually deters people from going sleeveless Winter that usually gets people to pop into a sleeve or two. Not him. Or mosquito infestations. It doesn't matter to him. He's fearless that way.

He's fearless that way. Yeah. We'll be right back. And now, back to the show. Kara, one thing I didn't know about you was, by the way, what a story we'll have for the rest of our life. The rest of our lives. But double major anthropology and sociology, why, if you knew at such a young age, you wanted to act, and have you utilized those, that degree?

This is a great question. I, so it's actually a little more complicated into that, but that's the easy answer that I give people. I designed an interdisciplinary major called Performance Studies, and it was inspired by, it was based on the graduate programs at NYU and Northwestern. So it was like the study that performance plays in different societies and cultures, and and that's what interested me. But you have to, to design your own major,

you have to write this whole thesis and defend it because they want to just make sure you're not trying to get out of taking statistics. So I had to kind of really work with all these academic mentors and come up with this program and design a curriculum for myself. And yeah, I'm just,

I'm super interested in how we perform, like professionally, all of us, but also how we perform just in our everyday lives. And, yeah, I think I have used a lot of it. I mean, I think, you know, what we, for me, I tend to think about characters in the kind of social science context.

Like when I'm playing a character, I like to think about how she's become who she is and how she thinks and how she lives in the world and how society impacts who she is. So I do feel like I use some of my, I feel like such a nerd. I've been talking too long about this.

No, that's okay. I use some of my social science. I was going to talk about my character room that I have here and I go into my character room. And I've kept all that. All the costumes of my great characters, all my costumes. Yes, through the years. Wait, now, Carrie, I'm the dumbest of the four of us.

Will you define anthropology for me? Pause. Pause. He is. Go ahead. Anthropology is the study of society, yes? Sociology is more the study of society. Therego, the name. Yes. Anthropology is...

More about ants? Is this just about ants and the ant culture, right? I mean, no. It's more, it's more, um, anthropology is more indigenous cultures and, um, historical culture. So not present day society, but more the role of kind of how societies have evolved through time. Sociology would be the modern day version of anthropology. What's currently, what's currently happening? That's enough will.

That's enough will. And anthropology has a little more ritual, like study of ritual. Yeah. But it's also a fabulous story. See, there's my fellow dumb dumb, right there. Hi. I like an anthropologist. I like their stuff. Well, you'd like the sympathizer.

It's a great book. Oh, hey. Actually, I'm kidding. Won the Pulitzer. Did you go, it did. Did you go to NYU? Is that what you were saying? No, no, no.

I look, they, those NYU and Northwestern were the schools that had graduate degrees in performance studies that I admired and was interested in. But I didn't actually want to go to graduate school, so I tried to just skip ahead and do it in undergrad. I went to GW, Gdub in D.C. Oh, okay. G-dub. G-dub. G-dub. Now, did you finish with a degree in anthropology and sociology?

I finished in a degree in performance studies. I got to actually, like, I wrote my own situation. Got it. I created my reality. Wow. Does anybody call you K-dub? Yes, especially because I went to G-dub. Yeah, people call you K-dub.

Now, wait, are you the only one with a college degree on this chat? Yeah. Sean, what's your excuse? How far did you go? I went four years, and then I got an honorary degree. doctorate, but I never graduated. I got one of those, too. You just show up.

I got one of those. Yeah, if you give a speech, they give you one. You can get one of those guys. Sean, I don't understand. You went for four years. How did you not, isn't that how long it takes? That's a great question. I was two or three courses shy, and I just did not have any more gas in me to go.

I'm fascinated because you seem like a completer to me. I spent a lot of time with you and you seem to have a tremendous amount of gas. You got plenty of gas. I, I, I, especially with the amount of tuna saluting. Are you kidding with plain chips? And he lights the fuse with that glass of milk and off he goes. Nobody kills a bag of plain chips and a glass of 2% milk. Did you really drink a glass of milk?

Is it real milk? Just like cows milk? Yeah, all every day. He's going to get in his Plymouth and drive off in a minute. But wait, Sean, so you ran out of gas two credits short. Will? How far did you get? Oh, I made it half a year.

Half of the first year. Yeah, that's right. Because college, to me, wasn't all just about the studies. It's about the social, it's about growing up, being on your own and, like, figuring stuff out. I had already been out of the house. You know, I went away to school first when I was 12. Now, I heard this story on the show about your clothes being taken to across town. That was different.

I was like, that's kind of child abuse, no? Yeah. And then they made them plant trees and fix sewer pipes, too. Yeah, we did a lot of stuff. I mean, look, I didn't have a, it's not that bad. Believe me. But I was 12 when I left, so... Oh, you got a boge.

Someone's running around in your house. That's Emily. I know. Locations go to two. Guys. Emily's actually, she has listened to your show longer than I have. Hi, Emily. Hi, Emily.

They're saying hi. Hi, Emily. She's saying hi. I'm geeking. She's geeking out. When I was at dinner with you guys, when I was at dinner for the cast for live in front of a story, studio audience. I actually

had not listened to a single episode yet. And I was embarrassed. And so I faked having listened to a few episodes. And I was able to do so effectively. She's got skills. She's a professional liar. I'm an actor. But I knew just from hearing

Emily talk about it and also hearing my husband Namdi talk about it, I had enough context clues and like reference points to pretend that I had seen. But I hadn't. I hadn't watched. And listen. And so then I went home and felt bad, so I started listening. And then I was like, this is the best podcast episode.

Jason, tell Carrie how much you love scandal every other. Yeah, I've seen as many episodes of scandal as you have seen of Arrested Development, Sean. Ooh, I have watched Ozark. Now, well, thank you. Now, what do you guys do about that? Because we all know a lot of people and are friends with a lot of people that do a lot of stuff. And you can't possibly see it also. You can't watch it all.

Yeah, do you feel bad about that? Do you lie about it? Do you make an effort? I'm just, I'm terrible about it. Well, I've just admitted that I lie sometimes, but I try not to. I mean, Carrie lies. I don't think you really lie. And now all her friends, it's out there, as they know,

and she just lies, and that's fine. What I do is, you know, what's hard is, Sean, you know this one. It's like when you go, when somebody says, I'm doing, you know, I'm in a show on Broadway or I'm doing a play or whatever, I'm always reluctant to go because you have to go and say hi to the master. Well, now, Carrie, talk about that. Oh, yeah. I've changed Will since, since,

We talked about that. Like, I know somebody, I won't say her name, very extremely, gigantically globally famous who came to one of my shows. And she didn't come back. And I was like, I get it. We don't really know each other. Why would she come back?

It makes me spiral. When somebody doesn't come back, and maybe that just means I'm an insecure person, it freaks me out. No, but how do you know that they're there? Because that's the part that is. They tell you. So, listener, for...

The house manager tells you. So Tracy, when you're doing a show on, in New York. I think specifically in New York or is it in Chicago too, Shawnee. You end up finding out if there's anybody who has a sag card

that's sitting in the audience and whether you've invited them or not. Sad card, Tracy's sidebar, Tracy, that's a screened actress girl card. Double Tracy's sidebar. So if they don't come back, you have to go back and say that you love the show, even if you don't

know the people in the cast. I just found that ritual to be weird. Well, that's what I mean. I don't want to lie, so I just, I'm like, I just end up not going to stuff because I'm what you're special. Because you don't want to go and not like what you see and then have to lie about it.

Oh, aren't you a person of integrity? No, I'm not. Can't you, but can't you go to a, to a show? I just don't want to get busted for life? Can't you go to a show without anybody knowing that you're there? I mean, like, who's clocking the audience? It depends on the show and the audience. Like, for me, I could never in my life

go to a show that has a black cast and not go backstage because they will know that I'm there. But wait a minute, you're saying if you were in a show and somebody in the audience has a sad card and doesn't come back, you take that personally?

Yeah, there's an actor who I knew had come to see a play I was in called American Son and he did not come back stage and unbeknownst to him, I held it against him for like a year and a half. I was like, I just thought

how, like why? It was, you know, why? Why? Did you ever run into that actor and ask him? Well, I then found out because I'm friends with his wife that she was the only one who had come and that she was running straight to the airport afterward and that's why she texted me.

And so I was like, oh my God, I've been like... He's been dead to me. Inside my heart snubbing him at parties. Yeah, he's been dead to me for a year and a half for no reason. You know what I'm going to start doing? I'm going to start going in a lot of theater and making a point of not going backstage. but hanging around outside a lot for a long time

and then leaving and then going like not only did he not come back but he fucking he didn't even run off he was here he was here for a while milling around what I learned in that is that I have to be more generous and I try to be more generous in my attitude toward people but that was a really good reminder of like you don't know what's going on in people's lives

even if somebody really snubs you to your face you don't know if they just had a car accident or like it just was a reminder like be generous The world just does not revolve around you and your Broadway performance. But you seem constantly happy, sunny. You don't seem like a dark person. What would get the real ire up in you? When are you the nastiest?

Finally we're going to meet the real carry-wash. No. Is it traffic? Is it people that cut you off in traffic? No, no. I'm not a traffic. Because I'm not a very good driver, so I have to be generous when I'm driving. What really pisses you off?

You know what? Dishonesty. Like, to circle back, like, if I feel like I'm being gaslit or people are keeping information from me in that way. You know how, like, people really like to infantilize actors? Like, they don't want to talk to the talent. They don't want to tell talent things. Or, like, just in my life, throughout my life,

whether it's because of my acting or whatever. If I feel like people aren't being honest with me, it really upsets me. This is what makes you a good producer, right? Yeah, maybe. Somebody who's like holding the information and then sort of disseminates it throughout the production. You understand what a value that is and how bad it is when you're on the other side of that, not getting it. Carrie, by the way, I can relate to that.

I'm like, tell it to me straight. Yeah. Just let me know. To me fucking straight and let me, I'll decide how I react. Right. By the way, honestly, Will, if you come to see me in something, like let's say accidentally, you stumble upon a play that I meant on Broadway. You don't know I'm in it.

Yeah, yeah. If you came backstage and you said, I'm not crazy about this one. It would make me feel closer to you than you leaving. And I appreciate the transparency. I'm making this pledge to you today. You're going to tell me when I suck.

I will always be honest with you. I will always be straight up with you about what I think about where you're at. And I want you to do it. And forget, in performance, on stage and in your life. Okay? This is amazing. I'm so low.

Very, the worst thing, wait, really quick, the worst thing anybody could ever say when they come backstage, boy, it looks like you're having a lot of fun up there. That's the kiss of death. That is the worst. Or like, or the like, you guys did that. That was, you did, wow, you did that. You do this how many times a week? Yeah.

Well, that's the thing, too, is it's so, you're so vulnerable. When you're on stage, you're so, there's no edit room, there's no score to hide the moment that wasn't fully honest. Like, you're just so vulnerable up there. So I think that's probably why I was also, like, a little more raw than usual. Yes, yes. Now, in the world of not being told everything

that maybe they should be told, in the world of series television, Tracy, oftentimes actors will not be told how that particular season is going to end. Now, you're a producer on that show, so you probably have more access to storylines. But have you had that instance with the headwriter about, you know,

Let me know what my finish line is as an actor so I can calibrate what the arc is to get there instead of waiting to read each episode, you know, piecemeal. Yeah, I was not a producer in the beginning of Scandal. I became a producer later on in the life of the show. And director. Yes, and director. And, but my favorite example of not knowing was we had a guest star named Joe Morton. And Joe Morton is an actor.

I'm a huge fan of. He did an incredible John Sayles film called Brother from Another Planet. Oh, I love Joe Morton. He's so good. So he's a stellar. And he came on, he was like the one guest star that came on our show that I called home to mom and dad and was like, oh, my God, Joe Morton's on the show. And I was never in scenes with him.

He was always in scenes with these other characters on the show. And every table read, I'd be like, God, I really hope that we can do a scene together. And he'd be like, me too, me too. And I knew that he had been in talks to do Romeo and Juliet on Broadway. And he had dropped out of that to come to do scandals. And I was like, he doesn't even get any scenes with number one. Like, why did he drop out of this play on Broadway? He's got no scenes with me.

Like, why do you do that? And I just was super like, what's going on? At the end of the scene, the very final line of that season was I get in a car. Joe Morton is sitting across from me. And he says hi. And I say, with a question mark at the end, dad? Because he was my father on the show. And he knew from the beginning, from his first phone call with Shonda Rimes, he knew that he was going to be my dad.

And I didn't know, I didn't know until our table read of that episode, like live in the room with everybody. It was incredible. Yeah, so wonderful. But it would have been cool if they'd pulled like a Star Wars and didn't tell you until you were actually filming the scene. Right? That would have been amazing. Is that how it happened in the scene? Yeah, Empire Strikes Back.

Well, do you mean in the movie, but not on set, right? No, on the set. Darth Vader just blurbed something else. And then in post, they put, you are my, you are. Luke, I am your father. No. So that the crew didn't know nobody knew

until the movie came out. Right. And I think... Mark Hamel knew? Yeah. Wow. Isn't that wild? They were trying to protect

the crew from leaking that to the fan base. Yeah. I think that's what I'm so. Hey, Sean, any more great tidbits from the winter circle? From 70 years ago? Also...

What about Chris Pines? What are you doing? Audition process for Star Trek. Let's bring Scotty in. Give us some light on that. And do you know that the bridge on the enterprise actually wasn't a bridge at all? Was scandal the first thing that kind of changed your trajectory? Or was it something else that made people really take notice?

Or do you think that that's the thing that really launched you? That was the thing. I mean, I had a really great film career before that because I had been in these Oscar-nominated films. I had a joke that if you hired me to play your wife, you would win an Oscar. because I was with Jamie Fox in Ray, and I was in Last King of Scotland with Forrest Whitaker. And so I had done, but nobody connected that the girl from Save the Last Dance was the girl from Ray, was the girl. Like, I was kind of a character actor and it was sort of disappearing into these, you know, really fun, very different films with accents from all over the world. And, but TV is just different, especially before streaming, right?

Like, TV was a different beast where all of a sudden I was in people's living rooms every single week. like how many people do you have in your life that you actually spend an hour with every week other than your shrink? Not a lot. So it's a very intimate relationship. Oh, she's talking to you, Sean, maybe. I'm talking to myself and myself.

So it did, it definitely changed my, like I changed, you know, sort of the level of how I walked in the world maybe or like level of fame or whatever you're saying. Yeah, and were you scared to step in a role of leadership like that or was it finally like, was it like finally, oh my God, this is like what I've been waiting for to be, like the number one on the call sheet kind of thing? No, I really there was all this pressure

because at the time there was all this talk. Every interview was about the fact that in almost 40 years there had not been a black woman as the lead of a network drama. Every article in the beginning. And I was like 37 or something at the time. So in my lifetime, I had never seen a black woman

as the lead of a network drama. And so that's all my pressure was my fear of like if I saw, screw this up, they're not going to let another woman of color be the lead of a network drama for another 40 years. Like, I knew that we had to get it right and I just had to work as hard as I'd ever worked on anything

in my life. But luckily, I've worked with amazing number ones. Like, Jamie Fox is the best number one in the business. No offense to you other number ones on here, but he's just the king. No one's better than Jamie Fox. Django, Ray, like having worked with him in those, he's just a, he's

so generous. He's a team leader. He's a coach. He's a cheerleader he's everybody's dad and so you picked you picked stuff from him and like yeah i tried to collect like forest whittaker's a beautiful number one julia styles was an incredible number one like i just tried to remember the things that i admired about the leaders the good leaders yeah she's so great oh my god jingo and chain is one of my favorite movies of all time you were incredible unbelievable in that and i've seen it so many times it's it's always quentin has um quentin tarentino has is great at the uh theme of revenge right

And that scene, I watch, whenever I watch that movie, it's disturbing to see you, that character, it's so disturbing. Any kind of fun Quentin stories? I mean, I love that he inserted himself in there in that one scene. It was so fantastic. Wait, which one? I forget. Django and Shend. I got a call.

I was asleep in my apartment in New Orleans. We were like halfway through filming, and I got a call at like two or three in the morning. And I pick up the phone. It's like, ooh, it's like, I was like, hello? And I hear Leo DiCaprio and Jamie Fox being like, yo! We need to talk. And I was like, what's happening? And they were like, Quinn wants to be in the movie.

I was like, what? So that like unfolded in the middle of shooting. Really? We were all shocked. But it was great. He was great. Yeah, so Jay just reminded you in the movie, he intercepts like the transfer of the of the collected slaves, right?

Yeah. And freeze them or something. I can't remember. I'm so bad about remembering movies. I swear I got to get to. I can see a movie last week and forget the entire thing. Same. Same.

Even movies I've been in. I don't remember movies I've been in. I don't remember lines. I like to think it's for a positive reason that like maybe we're so good about getting completely inside that world that once you leave that world, it stays over there. I don't know. That's a glass half fall. Yeah, it's kind of like in memento, like how he forgets like the neck, you know what I mean?

Do you have an easy time memorizing lines though? Yeah. Jason does. Jason's unbelievable. And do they stay with you? Or do you forget them? No, I can drop them just as easily as I learned them. But like it seems like all my memory skills

have just been channeled into that one very narrow lane. It's not great. Yeah. And now, a word from our sponsor. And now, back to the show. Kare, what, if I had, if I answered you, I mean, if I asked you this question and you had to think of something really, really fast,

who's one or two? of your favorite actors of all time that you worked with? Merrill Streep and... Controversial. Yeah. Well, I'm being honest.

Not a lot of people agree with you on that whole talent assessment thing. What TikToks have she in? Have you seen her on a TikTok? What TikToks have she been on? And I mean, it's hard. There's so many. You can't top Jamie Fox.

I love that that was the first one. And Jamie. I love Jamie. Yeah. Yeah, I just love him. What was your first paid acting gig? My first paid acting gig, I played a cheerleader. I don't think I had a name.

I think I was like cheerleader number two in an ABC after-school special. Yes. Called My Special Angel. Oh, wow. I think. Who was the angel? I don't know.

I don't remember. I may have done a PSA or something before that. God, after-school specials. After-school special. Jason, did you ever do one, an after-school special? I don't know if I did an after-school special. I did a few movies of the week. Those were good.

Remember they used to be a... CBS, NBC, ABC, they all used to make their own movies and they'd run Sunday night. Yeah, yeah. Now it's like Hallmark Channel does those in Lifetime. That's right. Wait, so, Carrie, and the other thing that I went on and on about before, but I'm going to do it again because you're so amazing,

was American Sun on Broadway, which I didn't get to see because I was doing something. But I elated to see it on Netflix. So, first of all, it was such an ingenious idea. to film the play like that? It was like, it was like a hybrid of stage in film. I'd never seen anything like it. Your performance was off the chart.

Like, it was amazing. Wait, you're allowed to do that? You can film a play on Broadway? No, it was... No. We, like, so really the reason I came up with that idea was because I... I never seen anything like it. I love producing. I fell in love with producing at Scandal.

And the first film I produced was a film called Confirmation for HBO, where I played Anita Hill. And then I fell in love with it. And so they came to me to do this play on Broadway. producers. And I said, sure, I'll be in it if I can help produce. But on Broadway, producing really just means finding money. Like, you get to be a creative producer as well. But I was like, oh, I don't do the financing thing. I haven't done that. But I was like, okay, I'll jump in and I'll try. And one of the ideas I had for how I could make the money to help produce the

play was like, what if we film it? What if we can sell it to a streamer, sell the rights? Such a great idea. Netflix, you know, Ted read it and loved it. But Jay, it was filmed, not in a proscenium. It was filmed. We built us on stages. We built on stages. We kind of like built a fourth wall to complete the room

because the play all takes place in one room. And so we just completed the room and shot it on a stage in the one room. Your performance was just mind-loyal. It means so much coming from you. Thank you. It was. Not that much, but I really want to see it.

I really, really, really... By the way... It's on Netflix. I'm going to watch it. Are you do have an account? Well, I share it with like 20 people. but I'm going to watch it and then I'm going to get your number from Sean

and I'm going to text Aaron from Kimmel what I thought about. You might be texting Aaron. And I'm going to be honest. Now, Carrie, where are you right now? Are you home or are you traveling? Are you on location somewhere? I'm not home.

I'm on location because we're doing a new YouTube series at my company called the street you grew up on. and it's something I started in pandemic because my production company is named after the street that my mother grew up on in the Bronx, Simpson Street. And when we were kids, we used to hear all these stories about

all the shenanigans that went on in Simpson Street. So I feel like that's my once upon a time. Like my grandparents came to the states through Ellis Island. They immigrated from the Caribbean and they lived in the Bronx and Simpson Street was like, you know, where it all started, where the dreams began.

So I interview people that I really like and respect and admire other than the three of you and about the street that they grew up on. How do you have room after the three of us? So, yeah, and I asked them questions about the street they grew up on and what their childhoods were like.

That's really cool. It's fun. So we're doing a bunch of them today. You know what I always wanted to do, but you can, by the way, you can have this idea if you like. Eat an entire cart and of ice cream by yourself and then do it again right after?

Yeah. And, yes, and. is, is, it's like similar to that idea, which is go visit with a celebrity the places they lived before they made it, right? So like go back to their apartment and knock on the door and interview the family that lived there,

that lives there now, and kind of swap stories about how you lived when you were there. And I think it would be really cool, all the apartments and whatever. I have a dream about maybe next season going to some of the locations with our guests. Do it, do it, do it. It's incredible.

But think about the stories you'd get from the people that live there. Yeah, the people that live there now. You're like our next Barbara Walters. This is incredible. Wait, so the first question, the first question that I ask everybody is to learn the name of the street that they grew up on. I asked their porn names. So I want to know the name of your first pet and the street you grew up on. So I want to ask you three your porn names.

Not your actual porn names that you have used in the past because I know you have those. So it's the pet's first name and the street you lived on. Your first pet. First pet for me was a little bird that was a cinnamon color, and so he was called Ciney, or she was. And then the first treat was Emerson. Cynie Emerson. There you go.

I like that. That's kind of cute. Sweet little Cine Emerson. That's my middle name. Emerson's my middle name. Cine Emerson receives a lot in these horns. Not a lot of giving. Mostly catching. She's good at it.

Yep. Can catch his bird? real passive. Will, what about you? We had a cat. You don't have to explain the story. Just what's the name of the first pet in the screen. He got to talk about the stupid fucking bird.

And receiving and catching up. You guys are like my kids. He got to do it. It would be Minu Edgar. Minu Edgar. Now Minu Edgar is giving a lot of pain on these porn. Cini sees Mino come. and just starts running.

Johnny, what about you? Mine's Josh Valley. Josh Valley. What kind of animals named Josh? Your pet's name was Josh? My dog's name was Josh, and I lived on Valley Avenue. Your dog's name was Josh? Why did you name your dog Josh?

I didn't name it. My dad did. Oh. Oh, this guy. Now, Kerry, what was yours? Mine. The best was that I interviewed my mom for the series, and I was like, you didn't have any pets, Mom, did you?

And she said, no, no, we did. We did. we had a cat named Big Boy. So my mom's, my mother's porn name is Big Boy Simpson. It's just the best. That's fantastic. I had hamsters. Yeah, yeah.

I had hamsters named Trick and Treat. And I grew up on Pugsley Avenue. So Trick and Treat Pugsley. Also, very active. Trick or treat Pugs is. Yeah, yeah. Wow, that's so cool. I love that.

And that's how you launch. into that's how we start each episode that's great I love that so in a perfect balance then how often are you working how often are you home like how often do you like to be bored throughout the year because I like I think boredom is the route to relaxation

if you can try to find you're right but so I'm not very relaxed these days because I haven't been very bored this is the main theme of my therapy these days is figuring out how to schedule more like open creative time because I am a

doer. Like, I really like to be busy and I like to accomplish things and feel like I'm being productive and useful in the world. But I also really, really love my family and spending time with them and being able to read a book on the beach. I'm with the reading the book on the beach team. I can't do it. Thank you. I do. I'm with that. Or even a listen and an audio book. Sean, what if you were in like in a nice cabana, right? So we've got nice breathable fabric around three sides of you. We've got a nice roof over the top. We've got some sort of a frosty drink. You're in Bermuda

shorts and a Hawaiian shirt. I'm going to be thinking, I know what you're asking. Could I read a book then? Yeah, and you got a nice fan on you. Maybe there's even a reportable TV. With the fan that has the missed. Believe me, Sean's never met a fan he didn't like, okay? Sean, that would work, right? Well, let me, I'm going to

ask you the same question. You know that. But it probably wouldn't because I'd be distracted by the beauty and the breeze. And I'd want to like go do something. You can't sit still. But here's the other thing. But it's not the whole day. It's just like a section of the day

where you get to disappear. Carrie, what you need to understand is Sean can't sit still and not fidget and do that and read a book and anywhere. However, I have been with him on a return 14 hours each way flight to L.A. to Istanbul

where he played Candy Crush the entire fucking time. So he is... I'm listening to the games. So he can just do... By the way, calling that a game is... like fucking, you know, like calling a pamphlet, a book.

It's just like... Why don't you just rip the door open and jump out somewhere over the Atlantic and just like, how could I still be engaged with this eight hours in? I'll never forget that flight, too, because they fed us 80,000 pounds of food. Like, you just did not stop serving food. Where are you guys sitting up front? I remember eating... Sorry, I remember sleeping, like, for like six hours at one point, and then waking up and being like,

Oh, man, I really... And looking in Sean, Scott, the same position. Do, do, me, me, me, me, me. Is that your meditation? It is, I get to check out and, like, I love that. Yeah, that's what I'm addicted to is, like, the solace of that. Well, they work hard on that. They work hard all those games to control your brain.

I know. By the way, they can have it, right? Oh, my God, don't worry. Turns out, they claim there wasn't much to grab. They took what they could. They really candy crushed my brain. All right, so listen, we're going to let you go soon, I promise, but I want you to talk about the prophecy podcast.

What is it? Because it sounds amazing. You're starring in it, your EP on it, and it stars Lawrence Fishburn, Daniel Day Kim, and David Oye Loa. Oh, yeah. I want to, yes. So I also, I want to thank so many of a lot of the folks that I work with wanted me to do this podcast, even more than I were.

I mean, I really, I'm such an Uber fan, But there's a guy on my team name Will who was like, we have a podcast coming out Prophecy. So you, yeah, it's a bad name. He sounds cool. He sounds brilliant. Will was like, because we're doing a podcast, we have to be on the best podcast.

So that is part of why I'm so happy to be talking to you guys. So Prophecy is, it's a narrative podcast on Audible. It's a really cool concept. The concept is like, what if the Bible wasn't a document about things that people thought happened in the past? but what if it was a prophetic document about things that were going to happen in the future? And so I play this woman, this scientist,

who winds up being pregnant, and I don't know how, because my husband can't impregnate me. We know that. And my name is Virginia Maryland. So like Virgin Mary. And there's a scientist named Jonah who gets in a situation with a whale and stays alive for three days.

And there's a guy named Daniel, who's a zoologist who winds up in a lion's den and they don't kill him. And it's kind of like these biblical happenings are popping up and what does it mean and how do we deal with it and it's very cool. It's a great idea. It's like sci-fi. And has that yet been optioned? Well, a part of why I wanted to,

I'm in this deal with Audible to create podcasts in the narrative space and I feel like it's a really good way to test out story and figure out is this limited, is it a film? I think this one is a film. Sounds like a great show. Are you kidding? That's cool. And is the idea then to like maybe if it goes well to make it a actual series?

Yeah, yeah, or a film. I think it might be a trilogy of films. That's really cool. I would watch that. Yeah, I would watch that. Let me look at my schedule. How long is the shoot? Start, oh, do you want to be in it?

Yeah, how do you feel about self-taping, Will? I want to be fucking number one. Carrie, you were talking about number ones? And I'm like, what is she working towards here? And I'm like, oh, here it comes. Here comes the pitch. So the number one's move-b-b-b-b-b-then she pitches this show. It could be a movie, actually, and then she looks right at me, and I'm like, here we go.

All right. So tell me, I'll tell you what. You know I'm at CAA, launched some numbers our way. Can you fucking let me look at the sketch. Give us something to react to. We'll fit it around your golf. You try to shoot around your golf. Yeah, that's true.

That's a good point. Carrie Washington, you know how much I love you. You got the email. I love you. I love you so much. I think you are incredible. And I'm a massive, massive fan as you all. Can I just say, I want to say, as somebody who, like,

this is what we do all the time. We have to talk to people. We do these interviews. It's so real. I can tell every time. time I listen that people are they don't want to get off with you they're like they love these interviews it's a good time people are not wanted to get off with jason for a long time oh no she did it that was perfect she's self-bide she's self-bide so good no one has ever self-fied before that was

great carry Washington DC oh she had the full district yeah yeah yeah yeah so is carry Washington Not a lot of people know that. So, she's a dream. Carrie Washington would actually be the great name for a, like, just like a detective series, too. Harry Washington, like that's the name of her character. Well, no, no, no, no, but you'd spell it C-A-R-R-R-Y because trying to, like, keep Washington, like, she's carrying what.

Yeah, she's got to carry one. Oh, my gosh. By the way, let's pitch her. Get her back on. Can you call her back? Yeah, well, Sean doesn't have her number, but email or Sean isn't that the dumbest story Sean that story is so fucking it's so good

I mean it's so embarrassing it's so unbrand for you By the way you just made the leap I love that Aaron was on the other end of that Yeah that Aaron Aaron's the other person And obviously Aaron knows the story I think I told her yeah Yeah Aaron Irwin who's the best

It's so good at best Wait a minute what about how great she is And she's so delightful And so smart and so gorgeous and so talented and so real and normal. Yeah. I always say that about every guest of ours. But like, I can't stop.

That's the thing when you're surprised to me, because we know there's a lot of people in this business in Washington and a lot of other businesses, whatever. You never get like the real them, and that's the real heart. Yeah, you know, I sat with so at that dinner, we talked about that cast dinner, Jay, when you're like, what dinner did you have when you were literally sat across? You literally sat across from Gary.

It came back to me eventually. We were jimmies. but we're at Kimmel's and she and I didn't know her at all but she was producing that thing that we've all done and I had the same I had the same reaction I was like man she is so cool and comfortable with who she is and her own skin and so real and you're getting you just had the sense that you were getting this genuine person and she was a delight we laughed a ton she was great yeah she's except for she lied about watching the listen to the dirty liar she admitted yeah she's a dirty liar she should maybe she should do it our are considering the liars, all right?

She's also really funny, like, she should do more comments. She's so funny. Why are we so surprised every time we meet somebody nice and normal in this business? Yeah, because we know too many of the others. But maybe, maybe that's just a vestige of what this business was. Well, it's not just a business. It's just in life. That there are actually a lot of really nice, normal people in this business now.

Yeah. I don't know if it's a thing. It's not necessarily a result of it, but it's maybe it is. there are bad people because maybe it's just a buy product I don't even see it coming, well I didn't even see it coming

product, bay, product, smartless smart smart Mars Smartless is 100% organic and artisanly handcrafted by

Bennett Barbico Michael Grant Terry and Rob Armjarf Smart Less