SmartLess - "RE-RELEASE: Tom Hanks"

Episode Date: June 11, 2026

We are very T.Hankful this week, with surprise guest Tom Hanks. Tom renames the show “HelpLess,” Sean practices his critically-recognized hosting prowess, and we begin the development process on Tom’s next two blockbuster TikTok films. There’s no crying in podcasts! This episode was originally released on 11/1/2021. Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of SmartLess ad-free and a whole week early. Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I'm going to do this. So today is... Oh, sorry. Today, we're going to have a nice... Sean, no, sorry. It's just the last time you started the last one. I was going to start this one. Okay.

We're just doing an intro. So we'll do it. So I'll just go. So today... Oh, I thought... Let me just do it. Let me just do it. Listener, here is smart.

By the... Okay. Smart. Listen, I think it's been three weeks since we've done this. since I've seen you, since I've talked to you. And I have to say, I've had some long drives in the last three weeks, so I've gone ahead and done some quality control, listening to our podcast.

I'm not great at it because I'm listening to them after they've already reached the public. Are you picking up some long hauler miles, some deliveries? What's going on? I am. I've got some five-hour energy cases I'm trying to get through. Okay, sure. So it's really been nice listening to you, fellas. You're both very talented and very funny on the podcast.

I'd really like to be more of a part of it. So I was very excited to... A part of it. I was very excited to see you guys today. But then this morning... This morning, a real dark cloud floated over our family here at SmartLus. Jason, can I just... Is it possible to say,

is it possible for a dark cloud to then give you a gut punch? Is that possible? Sure. What happened? Yeah. Well, why don't you take it from here? Well, Jason read something that I read. We all read it.

Well, I read it after you sent it to me. Here we go. Actually, you know what, Sean sent it. Sean sent it before I read it. Uh-huh, I don't think so. Sean sent an article to Jason and me in the thread that we're in. With some feigned exclamation points. Like, hey, y-h-ha.

This is great for us. And by the way, I'm going to put it out there. If anybody thinks they're worthy of being in the text thread, let us know. We'll add you. We'll add you to the thread. And Sean says, congrats for us. Yay, for us. And it's a click to Hollywood Reporter, SmartList nominated.

Great. Nominated for a bunch of podcast awards or whatever. Which is kind of neat because this is, you know, this is an embarrassment. It's a mom and pop operation, yeah. We apologize. Yeah. The fact that we're getting any traction whatsoever, let alone nominations. Just thank you to all the folks out there.

It's pretty great. Thank you. And also it's embarrassing. Jason's right. It is kind of embarrassing. So then if you read further down on the story, they're nominated Best Podcast, blah, blah, blah, blah. And Sean Hayes nominated for Best.

best host. Which is the kiss of death, because now everybody's like, well, he's not really that great. Well, you're... I don't think they're saying it out of the side of their mouth either. I think it comes straight out the center. Straight out. And here's my thing. Today, I can't wait to see you host.

Yeah. Let's see what you got. This is going to be the worst experience for me. Well, the voters are now listening, right? Because the nominations are out. Now they really have to decide. Pay attention to his hosting. My questions are still going to be like, hey, where are you from?

Yeah, no, don't worry. We know that. That obviously resonates with the jury over there. The I heart media people have made a bunch of mistakes here. When Sean said, what's your favorite color? I mean, how do you talk about these? Let's nominate that, jackass. Yeah, here we go.

Jesus, I'm not going to be able to come up for air for a while. We're thrilled for you, Sean. Yeah, we really are. I'm thrilled for everybody. I said to Sean, by the way, I did say, congrats, man. And he was like, oh, thank you. And I responded, I didn't mean it. What do you?

What are you doing? How dare you say, thank you. I responded with, I didn't, I didn't read the, I truly didn't know, I didn't read the article. I just read the headline, like most people. Sure. It is true. I think Sean might be the kindest man I've ever met. Not possible.

No one deserves it more. Not around you too. All right, zip it up. We've got, we've got an interesting guest today. He's known primarily in New Zealand and South Africa due to his success in rugby. Okay. Florida then came to love him when he pivoted his talents towards Highline and dog racing. And then when he was in California, it was attempting to be the first to successfully mend the San Andreas fault.

He tried his hand at acting. And while fame and fortune there has been scarce at best, some call it a wipe out. Sure. The critics have given him a few hugs. So he has received a couple of Academy Awards and seven Emmy Awards. What? He's gotten himself a Tony. nomination.

What's an AFI player who has a Academy Award? He turned it around. He got a Lifetime Achievement Award from AFI. B. FTA gave him something. The Golden Globes gave him the Cecil B. DeMille Award. The Kennedy Center honored this High Life Player.

And Barack Obama gave him the Presidential Medal of Freedom. So I say chin up. I say chin up to this fella. I have no idea. This is the most highly decorated guest we've ever had. I would say so, yet he's famous and fortunate in our book, okay? Please welcome the forever struggling, but always diligent.

America's own in Hollywood's best, Mr. Tom Lamar Hanks. No. Had I known that Sean was the host of this podcast? I would have bailed. I said, guys, I'd like to, but, you know, I don't like to work from home. Apparently, you're working with one of the brightest hosts in the business. Is there a name for this award? Is it, does it named after somebody?

It's called the aorta, because it's from IHeartMedia. Oh, okay. That's not true, but that's my pitch. One of my heart-hitting nominee questions is, where are you right now? I don't recognize that room. I'm in a tiny little cubby hole that is here in my vast compound. Somewhere in the tri-state area. I'm telling you, dog racing really pays guys.

You've got to look into it. It's within a single day's drive from Lakewood, Ohio. Home of the Great Lake Shakespeare Festival. Wait, you didn't. Is it true? No. No. Are we already plugging a festival?

I mean, this is quick. Well, it was a long time to go. A long time ago. Wait, did you really do dog racing? No, you dumb ass. This is why you're not going to win. You're the worst host. Jason was demonstrating his, quote, comedy chops.

Yeah, boy, guys, can I write or what? Huh? Well, hang on. I think Tom's on to something. Let's get into Jason's comedy chops. Real quick. You know, I told some friends last night that I was doing this podcast, and first of all, I had to re-explain your names.

Who we were, yeah, sure. They said, Sean, who, Jason, what? Will, huh? What is the name of it? Yeah. I kept calling it helpless based on the Neil Young song. So, but now I realize, no, no, no, it's smartless. We really are helpless.

And the question came up about you, Will. Uh-oh. which was this question. Has he started using a different voice professionally? That in your early days, you were kind of like squeaky, you sort of sounded like Jay North in those old Dennis the Menaceary runs, and you were hilarious. But then you went off and voiced Batman,

and it's as though you're walking around with their own self-imposed EQ on your voice now all the time. True or false, Will. Listen, like any good politician, I can't just give you a straight true or false. I will say that I constantly have a monitor in my ear and I'm adjusting my levels, my input levels. Right. And so then I can monitor.

No, you know what? It's funny. I recently, you know, I often watch a lot of my old stuff because I like to be entertained. And he has trouble sleeping. Yeah. No, but my voice has gotten, it has. But if you listen to Howard Stewart. It's just because of abuse, I guess.

Do you still smoke? Who's listening? I'm just learning. I'm just learning. We had Sean Penn on the podcast. He went through a, full pack of darts, didn't he? He did go through a pack of darts.

That's colloquial for cigarette. Yeah, it's Canadian. As opposed to say, coffin nail or... Yeah. Or a nail. A nail. Or bullet. Actually, Tom, this brings me to an actual question about the nail.

I noticed recently I was reading the 10th book in the Gunter... What's his name? Series by Philip Kern. I noticed your name on the back of it. Oh, oh, the... You gave a little blur for the back of... For the jacket of Prussian Blue, which I'm almost finished. with. Oh, that's a great one.

It's a great one, right? Gunther... Bernard Gunther... Bernard Gunther. Bernard Bernie Gunther series. He plays a non... Okay. You explain it.

Be merciful on me on this, okay? He plays a non-Nazi private investigator from 1928 Berlin through well after the war. It's a fabulous series by Philip Kerr. Philip Kerr. The late Philip Kerr, he passed away. Yeah, no, too early, yeah.

And I read them all and just, well, I'm not a big, I'm not a big, like, detective genre fiction writer. Me neither. But this had that added bonus of very accurate sort of historical detail to it that I really loved. It's a tremendous historical fiction, and you're absolutely right, and I'm with you, Tom, and I read mostly nonfiction. And somebody recommended, they said, you love all this European history, I think you'd like this. I'm fully, like I said, I just started at the beginning of the summer, and I'm on book 10, Prussian Blue. But he

always refers to cigarettes as nails. And he gets beaten up by these Nazis, and then they look down and he's spitting up blood and they say, what do you want? He looks up and he says, can I get a nail? Yeah. And you know what? When he smokes one, he looks really cool. He looks really, really cool. What I like about those books is

it fills in the blanks of his war years because some of them take place well before World War II. Some of them take place after World War II. and in the course of it, you see what he went. Thanks, guys, for firing us out of the gate here at the start of the interview. We know our listeners love literature. Go, Sean. You're the host.

Let's do it. Yeah, host. Come on. By the way, Sean, I have my hand on my buzzer. Hand is right on my buzzer. I'm ready to buzzer with the correct answer. Good. I want to know what your fascination with war is.

Because your name is so synonymous. I've never asked you this in my entire life. Why are you so passionate about the war guy? The history of war. He loves a good fight. It started the highlight, I think, right? That dog racing. You know, first of all, we do a lot of them because none of the projects have to have cell phones or laptops.

So that alone makes the writing of them so much easier. And there's much less special effects of having to put in those screens. But I get this question asked to me quite often. and the answer always comes down to when, in those formative years of, say, seven through, you know, when you're a little kid, every single caregiver, every single adult in my life would make references to the six, two words, three letters each,

the war. And they talked about it as this great dividing line in their lives. There was before the war, there was during the war, and there was just after the war. And they talked about it as though it's almost like, well, that was when the black plague was walking among us, you know. For a big chunk of their lives, they had no idea where they were going to be in another six months.

They had no idea how long the war was going to last. That's one big aspect of it. The other part of the two is that the bad guys lost. At the end of the day, we were able to somehow, unfortunately necessarily kick the stuffing out of them. And when bad guys lose something, it's that, what is that power of myth of, is it Bill Moyers, you know,

the world was on a quest to defeat people that were undeniably evil, the governments of those places, and many of the populace. So I keep getting drawn back to that. And again, I will say that from a storytelling perspective, our present day is just so, there is no shame left anymore.

Truth seems to be a malleable, viscous, kind of like... It's a distant memory truth, it seems like. And actually, you know what, Tom, Sean actually, within the last six months, I don't know if you remember, we were talking about all the movies you've done, the war movies, and Tom said, do you think he'll ever make a movie about TikTok? And, you know,

because something that he thinks is important. How about it to get right now? For Sean and Scotty, there's before TikTok and then after TikTok. Well, you know, if I did, it would only be about 45 seconds long. How long is your average TikTok? And then I won't be able to wait for the sequel. Tom, I know that you'd never compare your experience

shooting, Save a Private Ryan, to those who actually fought, you know, in all of that and during all that. But was there ever a moment, I'm sure, I bet there was a few moments while you were shooting that where you got close to the feeling maybe of what it might have been I mean, certainly the product, the result of that film took me there or as close as I think I could get. But I would imagine there were a few moments there where it just, based on the quality of the production, they managed to create some environments for you there and your own process of trying to get into the character and the realism of it,

where you were kind of struck a bit by what these guys must have gone through? Well, yeah, but at the same, it was all for. fake, you know. Sure, but I mean, you got to take that into account. But when we were on the beach there in County Wexford in Ireland, which is where we shot the Omaha Beach sequences. Oh, so it wasn't right there? Well, it was actually, it was one of the places where they rehearsed some of it.

So that's one aspect. How far was Bay's Camp from the beach? Oh, it was way. Well, I was going to incorporate that into the, into this anecdote. Sorry, sorry. So shut. Just light up another nail, Will. and take that pause.

We're there with 500 members of the Irish, actual members of the Irish Army. There is landing craft everywhere, and we're all storming the beaches. And the special effects crew had laid out these tiny little flags on the beach where they had set up air mortars and squibs,

little explosive devices. Things to avoid. Yeah, and they actually said, you know, I be careful, eh? right? Because, you know, this is going to become, this is like a projectile. It'll come out of the ground very fast. So if you can, try to avoid where the flags are. You know, I think I got that.

Then they removed all the flags, and we couldn't see anything. Oh, my gosh. So we were just stumbling all wandering blind. So there's all of that, and it's dressed the way it is. And when you, there were always four or five cameras going. and once the shot began, and you're wet and you're cold and you're coming up. And at a corner of one eye, you see a guy catch on fire.

And at a corner of the other eye, you see a guy blown 40 feet into the air, and he loses a leg in the process. Literally, we had, you know, amputee stunt people. Oh, my God. Then you'd continue to... They were amputated before you shot. They were amputated before.

Thank God, just to clarify. And even though there's harnesses and there's wires and whatnot, machine guns are going off all around you and explosions are happening like crazy. And it goes on for the better part of, you know, two or three or four minutes. And there was a degree of sort of like odd, fake, and yet at the same time, terror that was going on.

Yeah. So we were shooting then. They're all morning along, I'm going to say about on the, maybe the second day of shooting, because the first day of shooting was spent in the boats themselves. And I climbed up the steps to the bluff. They had put in these wooden steps so we could get up to the base camp, Will?

Sure. That's for catering and craft services. Not far as the crow flies, but it was awfully high. It was probably about six, seven hundred feet up the bluffs. And I went back and I found the other guys in the unit who I would be meeting when we got up to the shale, which was the defilade that was at the top of the beach. That's where I would come across Barry Pepper. and Eddie Burns and Vin Diesel and the other guys.

And they were still hanging around outside the trailers the way actors do. Sure. And I was wet and I was sandy and I was near death from the amount of noise that had gone on. And I told the guys and said, you guys better hold on to your hats because it's really wild down there. You are not going to. I mean, when you see a guy catch on fire out of the corner of your eyes, and no one said, you know, talking.

No one's prepped you. No one has said there's going to be a guy caught on fire on this side. And it was an interesting kind of panic. You know what's interesting? And this is kind of folding back to what you were saying earlier. One of the reasons that what I love about that movie, and I love that movie. So much. I'm not embarrassed to say.

I love it so much. And I've seen it a lot of times. And one of the things I really love about it, and you kind of touched on this whole idea of... Can't wait for the musical version? No. 97, by the way. 1997. Which is insane.

That's when it came out. Wow, it seems like two years ago. But you had that moment where your character is a school teacher, I think. Is that right? Yeah, yeah, we just... Yeah, he's a school teacher. But the idea that... It doesn't matter what he is.

He's just a regular... This is what the thing of this... Particularly this war. There was the Great War, which they referred to World War I as, but then there was the war, this war, World War II. And he was a guy who was called to do something extraordinary. He wasn't a guy who was born to be of military. officer. He wasn't a guy who was born to be a killer. He was a guy who had to go because that's

what he had to do. And people came in in this moment when the entire world was at war and did extraordinary things. And I always loved that about it. And I think that for me, it really captured what it is that sort of makes me have such, it's weird to have say have reverence for the war, but you have reverence for the bravery and what people did that were extraordinary things. You actually want to make an anti-war movie at the same time. that you're making a war movie. Let me tell you a story. I was 18 years old, I think, and I was a bellman

at the Royal Hotel in Oakland, California. And we had a guy who read his own dry cleaning service would come and collect the clothes and take them away and then deliver the clean clothes. And he was always coming with dozens and dozens of shirts and pants that had been dry cleaned. And I was working there one summer and he was gone for two weeks.

I'm going to say his name was Mike. I can't remember what his name was. But Mike was gone for two weeks and somebody else came in every day. And then after two weeks, it was in June. After two weeks he came back from his vacation. I said, oh, hey, Mike. Where were these last two? Oh, no, I take a vacation every June.

I said, oh, oh, do you go camping? No, no, no, I get together with some of my old buddies. Oh, oh, where did you go? Well, this year we went back to this place that we had visited back when we were kids. I said, oh, where was that? He said, it's in the north of France. He was a paratrooper. He was in the 82nd Airborne.

Wow. This guy is now, this 1974, so go back 40 years. So he's in his 50s. And what he's telling me is that when he was in his 20s, he jumped into Normandy on. D-Day and he was a paratrooper. And now he's a guy delivering his dry cleaning for the hotel. I felt, I felt stupid and small. But also, he was an example of that adult, that caregiver that was part of daily life.

That, you know, that, he didn't know if he was going to make it back. And he went, oh, he said, and we go back, he said this. He said, we go back to visit the buddies that didn't make it home. So they're visiting the cemeteries that are in. So look, that's a generation. It was a time that was loaded with all sorts of problems that, of course, we're still dealing with right now. But you can't take away the fact that these were young guys

who were asked to go off and liberate the world from really, really bad people, and they did it. Yeah. My grandfather, I'll leave it at this. My grandfather who passed almost 12 years ago, who I was really close with and loved dearly. I remember him telling me he worked with, he was in the Canadian Army,

but he was attached to the Royal Air Force, and he planned bombing sorties. And they were stationed at various airfields as they would move across, as they, you know, after June 44. And he said, one morning we wake up and there was constantly planes taking off and landing and stuff, and they were right on.

And he said, morning, the guy he shared a tent with, woke up, came out of the tent and walked into a propeller of a plane in the dark. And I said, and he told me, he didn't tell me this until I was about 18, of course. And I said, well, what did you do? And he said, and he wasn't joking. He said, well, I got a new tent mate. And I was like, wow.

And he was just like, that's the way it went. We had to keep going. What can you do? I don't want to go into a place I was, that's too much of a bummer. of his story, sad story, true story. It's a very sad... Anyway. I think a perfect segue would be

happy days, right? Sure, let's go. Let's talk about... Let's go to happy days. In order to make saving private Ryan happen or any of the other incredible movies that you have been in... You IMDB reading Sons of B bitches. How dare you?

This is pure Wikipedia. How dare you come at me with this? So had you not book that episode on Happy Days... Hey. Would you have not... met Ron Howard and things we would not have been gifted the high-life player. I did not meet Ron Howard on Happy Days. Ron had left the series by then. What I, the guys I met were Lowell Gans and Babelou Mandel who were the staff writers on Happy Days who wrote the

part, who wrote Splash, the screenplay of Splash. And Ron was directing and they said, hey, you may want to, hey, take a look at that guy who got fired from bosom buddies, you know, of Buzz and Buddies was canceled. Something that Sean is going to experience one of these days. Yeah. Don't worry. Sean's canceled two programs I've been on, so keep going. And we will be right back.

And now, back to the show. Tom, would you agree that the routine of a sitcom actor is the best job in show business? Do you miss it still to this day? Well, it is kind of a skate. It's a great hang, I'll tell you that. Because, look, if you either shoot, You rehearse Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, camera block Thursday, shoot Friday.

Right. Or you rehearse Thursday, Friday, Monday, camera block Tuesday, shoot Wednesday. Isn't that kind of like the... Yeah. That second one shoots Tuesday, yes. You start on Wednesday, yes. What you're saying is five days of the week. Yeah.

Yeah. Unless you're working with Jimmy Burroughs, and then you can take the first day off of rehearsal and really becomes a four-day work week, and it's only three weeks a month. So it's 12 working days a month. These are really top-secret things, man. You should never let the civilians here. What are you doing? Where are you blowing on? And it's six hours a day.

Now everybody's going to want to be in showbiz. Oh, wait. There's food. There's craft service. Climate control. You get a lot of breaks, you know. It is an awfully fun day. When we did bosom buddies, Peter Scaleri and I, my dear old pal. One of the great shows.

We actually shot that show on video, not on the film cameras. Film cameras in those days, that was pretty much a bunt. Camera blocking day was just kind of like your stand. did it, but we had four video cameras, and we had to do the entire camera blocking day ourselves on camera, because they did a line cut, you know, camera three, and tighten up on four, and four, let's come back, let's coming back to two and two. You had to be there for that, so you did, you worked a long day, and you did every line of the, that week script over and over again, and he and I just started goofing around so much that that's, that's where we first got,

We got yelled at a couple of times. You know, the director up in the booth, you know, he'd come in over that top. The voice of God. Hey, guys, listen, we're working really hard at here. Can you guys just kind of skip to the lines? Otherwise, we can't get the line cut in. We're trying, check the tally lights on camera three, Tom. When that comes on, you know, you speak.

And we didn't care. We were just goofing around so much. How excited were you when you got that show? What was that moment? So young Tom Hanks and you get bosom buddies, booked it, it's your job, what was that? Well, I couldn't believe it. Yeah. I was going to be on TV, you know.

Right. And I was going to be able, up to that point as a Shakespearean actor, I'd made, I made less than $10,000 in a year for an entire year. And I was married and I had a kid. And, geez, I made almost, I made that in two weeks on, on bosom buddies. So the financial reprieve was huge. When was the last time you did Shakespeare? I did Shakespeare two years ago here in Los Angeles

I played Falstaff with the Shakespeare Center in Los Angeles Tom tell that story it was a video that I saw of you doing it I can't remember it was so funny you pulled some guy out of the audience or something what was no what happened was we had a medical emergency a guy a gentleman had a heart thing happened to him and all of a sudden the paramedics had to be called

we were doing it at the VA Center and the Japanese garden amongst the eucalyptus trees here in west Los Angeles. And, you know, a guy had some sort of seizure, and we had to call the EMTs. And then we had to take a break in the house, not the house lights. The lights all came up. And it was going into, it ended up being about a 30-minute hold while they took care of this general. And we were all backstage saying, should we do something?

and then when I saw that people were leaving, oh, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, it was a long, it was about close to three-hour show anyway. But when I saw people, I saw a lady pick up her purse and move toward the exit. And I came running out, trying to scream and get back here, take thee, thy seat or something like that. But what was amazing was you were improvising in Shakespearean talk.

That's what blew my mind. was super funny. God, it was so great. It ended up being worthwhile and it got enough people to stay. And I think I ridiculed enough people that made some lady cry, you know, but out of laughter, tears of joy.

What was the, you know, a splash? By the way, for your birthday, years and years ago, I sent you a poster and I superimposed my face over Daryl Hannah's and I said, the note said you and I would have made a bigger splash. Tom doesn't remember that. You had, we only been to Trailblazers. But, but, you know, what was that, like, what was that feeling?

Because as a kid, I was like, oh, my God, every actor wanted to be Tom Hanks. Everybody, every actor wanted to be you. Yeah. Still to this day. You were in all of the string of these massive comedy hits, right? And big and splash and just on what I was doing. They asked me to be in a movie. So I said, yeah.

But did you know when you started doing all those other movies, you started, you did big and you did all these things. and they were just getting, did you know where you were going or what? No, no, you have no idea. They just said. You had no plan? But you were playing the lead and you were incredibly charismatic and you were, you were compelling on screen. Like you were carrying things right out of the gate. Had you always had the confidence and the sort of the leadership qualities growing up?

No, no. I was just trying to remember the words. I was trying to speak loud enough to be heard. But Tom, you are here. you are such a relief listen i'll tell you i'll tell you the biggest the biggest lesson that i learned this was when i was at the great lake shakespeare festival just a day's dry from where i am right now in lakewood ohio um in which dan sullivan he's who directed the the uh the fall the the fifth excuse me henry the fourth that i did his false staff he directed that in

In 1977, we were in rotating rep, and I was carrying a spear, and I was doing everything that I was told to do. And we had just opened a production of Hamlet the night before. It was in rotating rep, so you open the shows about every two weeks, and then you ran a different show every night. That's what repertory means. And so we had opened up Hamlet, and we all had a rehearsal the next day for,

Taming of the Shrew, which I played Groomio in Taming of the Shrew. And all of the equity company, the professionals, were hungover, exhausted because they had all been out partying the night before because they had just opened Hamlet. So everybody was like somnambulistic and showing up at 10 o'clock.

And no one really knew their lines yet, and everybody was kind of like shuffling around. And Dan Sullivan yelled at everybody. He yelled at everybody. He yelled at everybody. He said, Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey! We've got three weeks to get this show up on its feet.

And you people are not even trying for crying out loud. I can't do my job if you guys don't do your jobs. You guys have got to show up on time. You've got to know your lines, and you've got to have an idea. I can't provide everything here. So let's take a break. Mainline some coffee. Chew it if you have to.

Right out of the jar. But come back here. with some friggin' energy. Fuck, I would cast you in the Dan Sullivan movie right now, by the way. Sorry, just for what it's worth. That was incredible. I remember, okay, so you look, we're all like 19, 18, 20. I was 20 years old then, and that lesson really super stuck to me.

If professional actors who have 20 years in the biz, as they often said, 20 years in the biz, I've never been yelled at like that. That was an important list. So all through all of these gigs that I had, the hits thank you the misses let's forget those uh i always i that was always the thing that i thought the most important thing to do was show up on time know your lines and have an idea in your yes for sure for sure bring it that's that's all i did through all of those i didn't know anything so tom when you went when you were doing all the strings the string of comedies uh back then and you

do you remember what it felt like or do you remember that pivot moment when all of a sudden maybe you got offered a script or you had to you had to you had that you had to you that kind of dialogue with your agent, or what happened where you switched over to more, let's say, important films or more dramatic films? What a question. It's so great. Thank you.

Oh, I can't. That was the era of, you could make a movie for about $15 million. And if you just said it was a comedy, it seemed to do some brand of business. Whether it was actually funny or not, it didn't matter. Yeah, that was the time.

You know, anybody who had said action and cut was trusted to direct a comedy movie, whether they were funny or not. And I made a ton of those in which everybody came back. Oh, the Dailies were fantastic. I think the audience is going to be standing on their feet at the end of this.

So, Tracy, Dailies are the thing you watch as you're filming the movie. They get little clips of the day before stuff. And it doesn't matter if the movie was called Monkeys Make the Sun Go Down. Everybody would say, this is the, funniest of all the movies. The Cows of Tumble Town.

This is going to be a magnificent comedy. Because the good comedies that were made, you know, at the time, they all had, they were all with former Second City people, you know, Saturday Night Live people. But there was this, you could take a setting.

This movie takes place on a ski slope. This movie takes place on a school bus. This movie takes place at a bachelor party. And if, It will be a comedy. And I made a billion of those like that because we're just kind of like doing imitations

of other people's funny movies. Yeah, but here's the thing, and I've said this about it, there are a few people out there who have this, and you are one of them, which is, it doesn't matter what the movie was. You are always good. You're always, even doing, I joked about doing the Dan Sullivan. No matter what it is, you're committed,

and that always kind of shines through. So I know that you talk about those misses. I mean, look, if it wasn't for bad movies, I wouldn't make any at all myself. You wouldn't be sitting in your dad's library. Yeah, I wouldn't be my dad's living back at my folks house in Toronto. But, you know, but it's true. And you always deliver in that way because I always get the impression watching you

that like you don't care what the thing is. You're just doing your, I mean, you're part of it and you're in the thing. And who gives a shit? You know, I don't want to discount some of the great stuff. I met great people. And we actually did some really funny stuff that really did work. Yes. It was always fun.

Also known as classics. It was, well, you know, it's funny. You know, I don't think we ever had a movie. Splash was well reviewed. And I don't think I had another decent review for about, I don't know, six or seven films. But now you read about them and they're, they're, they're. cult classics, you know. What?

They're a cult classic? No, geez. Didn't happen back in the day. But once Philadelphia happened, I would imagine some of the scripts that were coming to you started to confuse things for you and your team a big. Well, I got older. You know, that's the other thing, too. You know, there's a type of movie you can make in your late 20s. I turned, here's a story.

I turned 27 the day of we wrapped the motion picture, It was the last day of shooting. We were in the Bahamas. We had a cake that was actually for the rap. Hey, let's celebrate the last day of shooting with a cake. And someone, I think, with a tube of toothpaste, added in icing on the cake, happy birthday, Tom, because they found out it was my birthday. So that was, you know, there's a movie that you make when you're 27 and in your early 30s and whatnot and happened.

And, you know, I made a number of them in which, but you have to get older. You know, you can't... Yeah. And I was able to age into... Gary Marshall gave me a great role with Jackie Gleason in a movie called Nothing in Common. And then David Seltzer wrote and directed with Sally Field, a punchline, and then Big came along.

That's great, yeah. But you get older, and so... And you start singing, I will tell you... Look, I'm not big on this kind of stuff, but there was one time I was sitting around with my crack showbiz expert who works for... for CAA. And he said to me,

what do you want to do? And I said, you know, I... Sounds exactly like Richard. That's a great impersonation. Richard love it. There you go. Beautiful in person. What do you want to do? And I said, I said, I want to play grown-ups.

I want to play people who have been through bitter compromise because I was in my mid-30s by that point. Compromise, Jason, is a thing that people do. Yeah, when you hear the other person's side, and then you go, okay, I'm willing to shift my position a little bit. Whatever. We'll talk about it later when Tully's gone. Sorry, Tom. Wait, Tom, you know what I was wanted to ask you?

And this is going to be the dumbest question in the world. Guaranteed. He is the host, latest in Jim. In Castaway, right? You, the volleyball is named Wilson. Now, you're married to the wonderful Rita Wilson, who I love, I adore, we all do. Was that by design because it could have been called Spalding? Jesus.

Could have been. It was written by Bill Broil. and that man that movie took about six years to figure out Bill Broils and I started talking about it and we weren't shooting it until six years later and he came up with the idea of a volleyball

and he named it Wilson in honor of my beautiful bride we've been married to it will be 34 years in next day. Hold for applause. Hold for applause. Yeah, good for you. So no, it could have been and I think we added the job.

There you go. Thank you. Well, Jesus Christ, that is a whole new level. I'm like Fred. I'm like Fred on Stern. This is... Now, you know, but it brings me to Finch. Finch seems like it's got some qualities.

I mean, if I was a hack studio executive, I'd say, it's castaway meets Martian. All movies are like that now. All movies are like that now. Yeah. Aren't they all, since you let you take a... I suppose, yes. This is on the waterfront meets pal joey by way of paw patrol.

Their own movies are a long on pop. But what you need is a relatable, every man that is empathetic, sympathetic, can alpha and beta inside a page? I mean, you are the man that could service all things. I came up through that era of which every genre movie was about somebody who could not be killed or defeated, you know, the cop that could not be filled. I'm with you. the fighter who never lost. And so, you know, a geeky guy with a big butt, a big nose, and a squeaky voice.

I took all the jobs away from Will. By the way, I do have a big, I have what's called a pro-dumper. Well, you can't drive a spike with a tack hammer, as I have heard. Wait, I just have a really quick castaway story that we might cut out of this. And Tom, I think I told you this,

but I was working on Will and Grace with somebody who worked on the show and we went to his house after a taping one night and we got super, super, super, super stoned and Will knows this time. This won't be cut. Yeah, we had super, super, super, super stone. And he said, look, I got a copy of Castaway. I got the DVD. Let's fast forward it to the plane crash

because the effects are so crazy. Let's get totally high and watch. Like, how do they do that, right? And so he just moved in this house. It was this brand new equipment and I'm sitting in the back of his screening room and he's up front. He just moved into this crazy house.

It's gorgeous and he had no idea how his own equipment worked. So he's sitting in the back seat and he can't get the DVD to play and I said, oh no, is that a Sony? Totally high out of my mind. I go, is that a Sony? He goes, yeah, I go, oh, their voice activated.

Those are the new ones. You don't even know what you have. You have to speak the name of the movie into the machine after you put it in. He goes, what are you talking about? I go, just listen to me. You have to say the name. name of the movie as you put it into the DVD player.

He's like, are you serious? I go 100%. I just read about these. So he turns back to the machine with his back to me and he goes, cast away. And it didn't play and he waited a beat and they did it again. He goes, cast away. And he turned behind me. I couldn't breathe. I was laughing. So cruel. It's one of my.

Bob Demetka's on that, he never cuts to the outside. of the plane. That's one of the reasons why that plane crashes is good. It's so cool. Just from the perspective of inside the plane. No, no eye God kind of stuff there. That's Bob. Now, Tom, with all of your incredible set experience, was that

what drew you, was it part of what drew you to the director's chair? Just the effort to sort of streamline things because you knew probably more than a lot of the directors you may have been working with? No, I think directing that becomes sort of a bit of an ego thing because you become convinced that you know more than you actually do.

But seriously. But then you try it and you're like, oh my God, this is hard. I believe every actor should direct. I think every director should have to act. I think we should all be writing and producing because you find out how hard it is to do that other job. For sure. From an actor's perspective, it's like, you know, you got somebody saying, uh, that was pretty good, try it again. And you want to say

to him, do you realize I'm on a horse weeping because my dog died and I'm trying to remember six pages of dialogue at the same? Do you realize it's a little harder than it is? Man, let's try it again.

That, along with the same thing of an actor saying, hey, we're going to shoot this or what? Are we shooting or what? Right. You have to realize everybody has nine million things going on inside their head. And also, well, look, We're all storytellers. At some point, we can have a sense of what might fit into our mouths a little bit better and maybe some options.

It goes back to the thing Dan Sullivan always said, which have an idea in your pocket. You know, have something that you can come out and say, this isn't on the page, but let me show you something else here. So since you have directed, when you do come to the set as an actor with an idea in your pocket, are you sensitive to that there might actually be a plan in place that that director and that crew has been working on? for weeks and that your idea might disassemble the House of Cards? There might not be room for it. So then you try it once and they say

don't do that and so and then you don't do it. You know, it's pretty relatively easy stuff. Is that desire to direct still burning in you? I can't say that I have the instinctive powers of being a director as an actor. I think I know what I want to do. I read it and I say, oh, I know what direction I'll go to. directing is a

directing requires a fidelity and a patience and an ability to communicate. After I've done it, I've directed two feature films. I've directed a number of episodes of the miniseries that we've done, and I like those because I wrote them, more I wrote on them at the same time.

But I think directors more so than myself's an actor, they're born. into it. You know, you have to think it's the greatest job in the world. Yeah. And oftentimes it's not. Yeah. Do you enjoy the producing part of it all with what you guys... I don't really produce. Well, but you guys churn out, it's really, you shouldn't sluff over it. It's the alliances that I make with other people that really do all the work. But the amount of, you're incredibly prolific as a producer, you and Gary at play, Tony.

I mean, it's, it's, you've employed an incredible amount of people. You've put a lot of product out there. that's not easy and that's incredibly admirable. Well, I'm very lucky because we have extremely good people. And we do this, you know, we have a kind of like a clubhouse office where we lean in each other's doorway and say, you know, is this really a feature film, guys? I'm not so sure it's a feature film. Shouldn't it be like a 12-part mini-series instead

so we can really examine the theme? And then you make nothing but a ton of alliances. But here's, I'm not a producer because, this is what producers do every day. They get on the phone and they try to convince somebody to do something they do not want to do. Or they tell somebody on the phone

that there's no way that they are going to do what that person on the phone really wants. That's pretty much it. It's that dichotomy. I always just say, sure, no matter what they're saying. We'll be right back.

And now back to the show. Let me ask you how, how, what, what's your feeling about this, this transition that we're all in into a bit more of a streaming element, uh, married with, uh, you know, box office, you know, theatrical, you know, going to the theater paying and paying some money for a ticket versus having it at home? Do you, um, what is your opinion on that as somebody, uh, in the business and then also as somebody who is a, who is a viewer? Is it, is it, do you like the fact that there is less pressure now, maybe? with not having to open on the weekend because it's streaming. Do you think about that? Well, that's a pressure that doesn't come upon the actor because, look, the movies are always binary. They're either double zero or zero one.

They either work or they do not work. And if they don't work, there's no amount of marketing or interviews that you can do on podcasts. In order to change the zeitgeist, the pressure remains absolute. The pressure is the speed of light in order to make a great story. The audience, I think, if I can pontificate just a little bit here, doesn't care where they see it.

The business does. The marketing, the producers, and the studios, and the grand entertainment industrial complex, you know, they would like things to be exactly as they were, but we have a business that is forever changing. You know, back in 1980, when you guys were still in junior high school,

and the concept of home video was just beginning. Here's a story that goes back a long way. When we were, the first year that Peter and I were in bosom buddies, a VHS tape machine, a player at home, cost about $4,000. Yeah. Wow. And the only people that had them were incredibly wealthy, rich people. Three-quarter inch, right, too, weren't that?

Well, by that time, VHS was just beginning. And in a neighborhood, maybe a guy named Doug would open up Doug's video rental shop, S-H-O-P-P-E. Old-timey video shopping. And on one side of the rental space would be VHS tapes, and on the other side would be a smaller collection of beta, Sony Beta Max. And eventually, beta went away, and it was all just VHS. And by the time, I think the next year VHS machines were only like $1,800. And then everybody was renting.

And the concept that you could, it was great, of course, to be able to record shows after you went through this arcane kind of like process of on, off, recording, timing up. But the bigger thing was, is that if you had kids and you had a VHS of Dumbo, you know, they would get up in the morning on their own and put in Dumbo. and you didn't have to get up. This was huge. And here we are in 2021, and the industry is going through something akin to that change, because guess what? As Gary Getsman, my partner at Playtone said,

you know, sitting at home and watching something on your TV is not that bad. Right, right, right. You know, Tom, you said to me years ago, you said, you know what, Sean, the business is always changing, and you have to adapt and change with it. Not as an actor or the craft of creating things, just you have to keep an open mind

and go with the flow of it. Otherwise, and if you fight it, you're just dead in the water. But why didn't you take that advice? Why didn't you do it? Yeah, what happened there, Sean? Because now you're reduced to hosting the Heartless podcast. Is it Heartless? It's Heartless.

You're known as Dumbo, the host of Heartless. We were very lucky. We were very lucky at Playtone because one of our first deals was at HBO, and this was old-school. HBO. You know, no commercials. You could say anything you wanted to. There was no language. There was no, there was no, and at that point, HBO doing so doing a series or a movie or a miniseries on HBO, that was the gold standard. Yeah, it seemed as though you had all the freedom in the world. And now you have even more of that, all the freedom in the world. But it still comes down to this very basic requirement. You've got to be putting out an awfully good product. Otherwise it will disappear into the mist. Like, no. many of my early films. Thanks, guys.

No, no, no, no. But how have you not... I'm surprised, because it seems like they've tried to gobble up everybody. How have you not... When did Marvel call you and say, Tom, we need you to play, you know,

Dr. Universe, and, you know, we need you to do 12 films and you have to play Doctor Universe. Did that ever happen? Here's the problem. First of all, they've never called me once. I can't believe that. No, no.

never and I think that if one of these days they will and they'll say is there any way you would consider playing the secretary of defense a guy who comes and says please help us all for man we can't we can't survive I'll be one of those guys I don't get to play the punk confluence but god god bless you because you still make the kinds of films you have continued in an era where where most features are, you know, the feature film market is dominated by these huge... Some of those are great.

Some of those are a blast. No, no, I'm saying they're great, and I have a lot of friends who do them and who make them. Well, they're not all great, but some of them are really... I said some. I said some, but some of them are good, and we all have friends who we adore and who are super talented who make those. I'm not saying that.

But there is, it seems like a shrinking market for films that stand on their own because it's a great story and has a great cast and blah, blah, and you seem to be one of those people. You're in a very unique position that you're still making those films, which I think is awesome. We chastised. We chastised JJ Abrams. We were like, go and make some comedies, JJ.

You know, we were giving him shit. He wants to. But, you know, it's because, Tom, because Tom, you are us and you have maintained being us. You, as for as famous and as successful as you have become for as long as you have been, you have still. stayed very grounded, it seems, and normal. And I would imagine that that is just something you're stuck with from when you were a little kid and you've probably got a couple of parents to thank for that, I would imagine.

My parents divorced when I was five years old, guys. Way to go, Jason. Way to fucking go. This is why I'm not getting the nominations. This is where Sean really does his research. He would know that. Tom, I don't know this. What did your folks think about you getting into the business tree, as I call it?

You know, I started doing it for fun in high school because I couldn't believe that you could go and do plays in high school and get credit for it. You know, this is school. I remember specifically thinking that the first time I walked into a drama class. And I did it because some friends of mine from junior high had been in the plays. And I just said, what? I can come to school and do this?

Well, this is screwing around, man. This is goofing off in class. I felt the exact same way. I was like, oh, my God, everybody's just laughing. This is great. Both my dad and eventually my mom, because we lived in different places. When my mom came and saw me and stuff,

they just thought, well, this is just wonderful. Look what Tommy found. Sean, you've talked about that. You just said it. You had that same thing, right, where you were like, this is amazing. This is so much fun, and I can't believe I get to do this at five, six, seven, eight. And then hit it, Sean.

Hey, now, Sean, when you did, you did promises, promises on. Thank you, everybody. He's never brought it up. That's weird. He's never mentioned it. And it was a big hit. And you said something to me, because Sean and I see each other. Socially.

Not just on this podcast. So after you had done promises promises, and it was huge because you played the piano. on stage and you did all this stuff. It was a big Broadway hit, right? A number of years ago. And I said, are you going to do it again? Do you have the desire to get up

and do another Broadway show? And you said something that was, I swear to God, the only person I heard make the same sort of reference. Are you ready for this? I read it as a quote from Lawrence Olivier. You said, I'm not sure I have the fire in the belly. Yes.

in order to get up and do eight performances or something. I remember when Lawrence Olivier was older, and he was always asked, well, will you ever get up at the national again? What having? He says, no, because it requires a stronger heart. And he wasn't talking about medically. He was talking about all the effort that goes in the fire in the belly. Well, Sean, because you would do eight shows a week.

I remember we've talked a lot about promises, promises. But you said some of the same, you were like, I do it, you did it for nine months or a year? How long did you do it for? A year. A year. Remember you saying, similar thing that you said to Tom, you said the same thing. I said, would you do it again?

And you said, I don't know if I have it in me. Yeah. Five, six, seven, eight. And then you just went right to. No, no, it's true, Tom. You know, because I relayed that to you about the constant work ethic you have to jump from movie to movie to movie to movie. movie over these decades and they're all great and their and your work like Jason said it's always fantastic you always committed you're always in it and and I switch that that question back to you

about filmmaking is do you still have the fire in the belly to travel and get up at five and stay in this hotel and that hotel and and and you said yeah because it's what it's what I love to do and yeah I do yeah there's no other way of putting it. There is, look, it's more fun than fun. That was something that I learned a long time ago before I got my job at the Great Lake, Shakespeare. Work in the theater is more fun than fun.

And I thought, well, yeah, this is a great way to spend your day. It's not just a lifestyle or, you know, life's work. It's a life. I love that. And now, listen, out of all of your entire repertoire, all of your credits, is there one movie... He's going to ask you, what is your favorite movie? Jesus Christ. No, no, no.

is there one movie or experience that was extra special to you that will always stick in your brain? You know, I will say, look, yes, they all are in so many ways. Look, I've never had a rotten time making a movie. I've always come away from a movie saying, I can't believe they pay me to do this.

That was fantastic. Despite the discomforts in the 5 in the morning, a little harder at the age of 65, I guess. But the experience of making the movie, that thing you do. I cast it with a bunch of friends. We had a great time. It was the beginning of the company that I formed.

So great. I love that movie. With Gary Getsman and everybody else down at Playtone. I could do that again and again and again. Was that the first film you directed? That was the first, not the first directing gig I had, but it was the first feature film, yeah. And it was, it had music in it, and it was very personal because it was set in 1964,

for so it was uh but you know every every gig is uh magnificent the the ones that don't that may be disappointed a little bit is the ones where you don't get to spend enough time doing it like i was just uh i just did two weeks with west anderson in spain with the west anderson repertory company and that was fantastic and i was bummed out he said oh we got to leave we've shot out my role i got to i got to go now i'd like to like to linger for a little bit I just got to do a couple days with our buddy Tyka, Y-T-T-T, and it was just the greatest experience. And then it was just, we did a show for HBO,

and then I just did his movie. And I was like, it was like the greatest, most fun month. And then I'm like, oh, and it's over. Yeah. And that was, I just want to go and play with that gang. Don't we get to have that 90-day experience here off somewhere, you know, pounding something out and getting up and 11? Well, you've given us not 90 days, but a solid hour of you.

your very, very valuable time. Yes, thank you so much. Thank you on behalf of these two fellow smartless folks, as well as everyone in America and the world, for providing us all these little worlds that you have created that we all get to live in, and they've all been fantastic. Is there a podcast award for second bananas or third bananas that you, Jason, and Will might be up for?

Will and I are going to battle for that one. You have to ask questions like, what's your favorite movie? Yeah. No, you've got a monopoly on that. You got it all buttoned up. I would say that in Canada, this is known as Will Arnett's Smartless. That's true, it's true. Wait, the number one podcast in Canada.

I think I just got voted Canada's favorite son. I'm not sure, but I'm putting it out there in case anybody wants to latch on to that and start making that a thing. I'm happy to. Well, it's a delight talking to you guys. You too, Tom. Thank you for saying yes to this. The delight is ours. Tom, I just, words don't express how I feel.

I'm such a... You're very kind, very kind, guys. And listen, good luck on the... Is there a name for this award yet? It's the Iheart Radio Award. The I Heart Radio Award. It might be called the Aorta. Who you up against?

That would be a big question there. Oh, that's a great question. Hardcore history, maybe. Up against hardcore history? Sure. Fingers crossed. It's so great to see you. Thanks, Tom, very much.

Good to see you guys. Hope to, well, we'll hang at all those places that people like us end up at. Yeah, for sure. All right, take care of guys. Bye, thank you, Tom. All right, buddy. A lot to love to you.

Bye, bye, Tom. I think he's going to make it. That guy's got some charisma. Jason, let me just say this. You've been complaining for a couple of you've been saying, man, great guess you guys. And then you just decided you pulled out at one of these, what I've now referred to is,

because I don't use this word, as the topper card. I'm going to now call it the topper card. He's that. He's a blue chip, that one right there. Oh, man, what a delight. I mean, he's just like. He does have that thing.

I kept trying to figure out a way to ask him this without him deflecting as he does so well, so humbly. And I just kind of bailed on it because I knew he just wouldn't. Like, he's just got that. He's, he is us. He is completely personable and authentic. He is, he's every bit a leader that you'd want him to be, but he doesn't seem like he's too arrogant or cocky to, like I don't know. How does he? You mean us as an audience?

not that's three yes like he's just like he's the guy you want to follow and are never annoyed you know watching him or i don't know it's it's been so consistent yeah i don't see myself as an every man oh no you definitely no i see myself i'm special yeah well um i'm like the boss of the every man you know so when i'm there when i see tom come in i'm like it's great spending time with one of my employees. I hope he keeps staying as prolific as he is. I mean, he's doing, like, what, at least a film a year? Same here.

That's what I meant about the movies he makes. I love that he keeps making movies that are like, it just seems like not a lot of other people are making. And his new movie, which we talked on, what is the, the Finch? Yeah, Finch. No, no, not The Finch. Just Finch. Finch.

The bird. Yeah, Finch, it's on Apple, and it's basically... When is it on Apple? When is it? It's not on now? First week in November. November 5th. November 5th.

November 5th. Yeah. So he's doing this movie, Finch. The sequel is going to be The Finch, I heard. Yeah. No, it's called Fincher. It's called Fincher. Oh, it's called Fincher.

And David Fincher is directing it. Yeah. We're shooting it right now. Are you kidding? Dude, this is... Showbiz is incredible. I know. It's everything is aligned.

But it's him and a dog and a robot. And this is not the start of a joke. But could anybody pull off a high wire act like that? But they do walk into a bar. There is one bar. They do walk into a bar, be fair. In fairness, they walk in. But I saw the trailer, too, with my almost 13-year-old,

and we watched it and looked at each other. We're like, yeah, we'll watch that. Yeah. And don't you feel like he's kind of like our ambassador, not just for the business and not just for Hollywood, not just for Los Angeles, but like America, too? Yes, absolutely. He's like quintessentially American and, like.

He's one of the few people we can, both sides, if you will, can agree on. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. What do you mean? Wait, wait. What's the other? I just met like both. Like, never mind.

Everybody in America can agree. Oh, those most sides. Yeah, LeShan, we are not political. Sorry, so please. What are you trying to do? You're trying to lose your award? You're trying to wade me into deep water and then you're going to take me down like a crocodile

and keep me under? Bye! Bye! You can't fucking bail out like that. You can't bail yourself out. Yeah. You can't be saved by your own bell. We've used everyone.

word that you could do with buy no not at all no but also you were just trying to bail yourself out of a sinking ship and you can't you can't use buy as a as a as a as some kind of you know instrument to bail out your sinking ship why not i just did it yeah i guess you can't sorry there is no rule in that you're right you can um but do you think that when he first moved oh oh no sorry shun let's hear it come on go ahead One of the questions I did get to here was, he was, in 1979, he made a move to New York City. And he was trying to be an actor full-time. So I wonder if he was just trying to take a bite out of the apple in 1979.

A bite? A bite? I'm not confident with this. A bite. That's the least. It's the worst. We were hip, but I'm going to allow it. A bite.

Oh, my head of the apple. Smart. Smartless is 100% organic and artisanly handcrafted by Bennett Barbico, Michael Grant Terry, and Rob Arbjarf. Smartless.