Smosh Mouth - #146 - Advice For 20 Year Olds

Episode Date: June 1, 2026

We get vulnerable here sometimes! For a limited time, get 60% off your first order, plus free shipping, when you head to https://Smalls.com/SMOSHMOUTH. For 50% off your order, head to https://DailyLook.com and use code SMOSHMOUTH. Go to https://www.Zocdoc.com/SMOSHMOUTH to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today.PODCAST:https://bit.ly/SmoshMouthSpotifyhttps://smo.sh/SmoshMouthiHearthttps://bit.ly/SmoshMouthApple0:00 Intro11:42 Sponsor! 13:04 Back to the hard hitting questions23:40 Language and gender28:48 Sponsor! 30:32 Back to grief, gender identity & age44:41 Perception & coming into one's self55:56 Sponsor! 57:25 Upcoming Bit Citys & fearsSUBSCRIBE: https://smo.sh/Sub2SmoshCastWEAR OUR JOKES: https://smosh.comWHO YOU HEARShayne Topp // https://www.instagram.com/shaynetopp/Amanda Lehan-Canto // https://www.instagram.com/filmingamanda/Rory Kramer // https://www.instagram.com/roryofkramer/WHO YOU DON’T HEAR (usually)Director: Selina GarciaEditor: Rayne DarlingProducer: Amanda Lehan-Canto, Shayne Topp, Selina GarciaProduction Designer: Cassie VanceArt Director: Adrian Sheen, Erin Kuschner, Josie BellerbyAssistant Art Director: Courtney ChapmanProp Master: Abigail Schmidt, Emilie Anderson, Bridgette BaronStage Manager: Alex AguilarWardrobe Designer: Julia RosnerKey Costumer: Jacqui CullerProp Fabricator: Jocelyn SfetcuArt PA: Lunora ReyesDirector of Audio: Scott NeffAudio Utility: Dina RamliDirector of Photography: Eric Wann, Brennan IketaniVideographer: Eric Wann, James HullCamera Operator: Simone WilliamsPodcasts Producer: Selina GarciaAssistant Director: Alexcina FigueroaExecutive Vice President of Production: Amanda BarnesDirector of Production: Alexcina FigueroaProduction Manager: Jonathan Hyon, Tyler M. KennedyProduction Coordinator: Oliver Wehlander, Zianne HooverProduction Assistant: Caroline Smith, Tyrelle AnthonyDirector of Post Production: Luke BakerDIT/Lead AE: Matt DuranDIT/AE: Beni KimuenePost Production Coordinator: Ariana MartinezDirector of IT: Tim BakerIT & Equipment Coordinator: Lopati Ho CheeSound Editor: Gareth HirdDirector of Design: Ness CardanoSenior Motion & Branding Designer: Christie HauckSenior Graphic Designer: Jay TaylorGraphic Designer: Monica RavitchDirector of Channel Operations: Lizzy JonesChannel Operations Manager: Audrey CarganillaChannel Operations Coordinator: Sabrina LiebermanDirector of Social Media: Erica NoboaSocial Media Associate Producer: Peter DitzlerSocial Media Manager: Kim WilbornSocial Media Coordinator: Margaux BernalesSocial Editor: Vida RobbinsMerchandising Manager: Mallory MyersBrand Partnership Manager: Chloe MaysBrand Partnerships Coordinating Producer: Liz KummerOperations Manager: Marshall A. PeaseOperations Coordinator: Sara FaltersackFinancial Operations Specialist: Natalie LewisTalent Coordinator: Danielle MosesPeople & Culture Manager: Katie FinkPeople & Culture Coordinator: Hannah MerrittCEO: Alessandra CataneseExecutive Producers: Anthony Padilla, Ian HecoxEVP of Programming & Development: Kiana ParkerProducer, Special Projects: Rachel CollisExecutive Coordinator: Katelyn HempsteadOTHER SMOSHES:Smosh: https://smo.sh/Sub2SmoshSmosh Pit: https://smo.sh/Sub2SmoshPitSmosh Games: https://smo.sh/Sub2SmoshGamesSmosh Alike: https://bit.ly/SubToSmoshAlikeFOLLOW US:TikTok: https://smo.sh/TikTokInstagram: https://instagram.com/smoshFacebook: https://facebook.com/smosh

I don't know Justin Bieber. I need you to be very clear that I don't know Justin Bieber. This is Rory Kramer, and all I need to say about them is they don't know who Justin Bieber is. No, I know who he is. He means a lot to me. Doesn't like him. But I don't know him. His photographer's name is Rory Kramer.

Boy, the girls in my DMs. Oh, really? Bieber. Okay. If I knew Bieber, I wouldn't be skateboarding with Bieber. You skateboard? A thousand. Of course.

Jesus Christ. Do you like longboard or short? You just keep jumping up the list of hot. You do a kickflip? Yeah. Fuck yeah, dude. You should see me on a skateboard. What's up?

It's crazy. I wish I could draw. It's one of the many talents I don't have. It's too bad. You can only skateboard. But are you guys going to be honest with me? Yes. What are you talking about?

We're not doing bits. Shane and I are very vulnerable in this. This show is just like a real conversation. I know, but we're like being filmed. Do you know what I mean? So there's a level of perception. I don't even see the cameras. That's what's crazy.

No, Amanda. Camera, camera. Amanda, I can tell you, honestly, Amanda, she is not holding back. Oh, sometimes I drive home and I go, why did I say that? No, no, you don't hold back. It's you. I'm trying to get to the core out.

I think I can be a little bit more, like, careful with my words when the camera's on, but I'm going to be honest. It's not a lie. I need to work on being honest. Really? Yeah. You think when the cameras are on, you aren't. Yes, I think I have a propensity. Amazing word.

What the hell? You just bumped up even hotter. The vocabulary. You're at the top. I have a propensity to perform. Performer. I've performed my entire life. my entire. Also, yeah. Well, like, literally, like, if you think about gender, if you think about, like, I'm just like, oh, I have a propensity to perform, and I really don't want to do that anymore.

Okay. So I got to slow my role today. I got to show up honestly. And with that, let's begin. Welcome to Smoshmouth. I'm Shane. And I'm Amanda, and we have a very propensity. Oh, my God. Joyful, wonderful guest. Their name is Rory Kramer, but do not get it. They are not Justin Bieber's photographer. But if they were, they'd be skateboarding with Justin Bieber. Beeps? Hey, Rory Kramer. Can we say Bebs?

I love him more than anything. You know, on that The Lost Culture Is His podcast and they say, what's the culture that made you say culture was for you? It's Justin Bieber. Yeah, it's Bebeber. Has it been from the beginning? Oh my God, yeah. I remember where I was. I remember where I was.

When Beber was born. Yeah, well, I remember. I was like an early. Kid Rawl. This is his like YouTube channel was Kid Raw and I was an early I found him early and I was like I'm obsessed with this kid his talent his whatever and then I would look him up on

iTunes all the time trying to find music that came out this was so long ago and then I remember I was in Chile and we were skiing and I went inside to use the computer and I went to like the iTunes top 10 and one time was

was charting. And I went, oh my God, that's that kid. And then I, like, scaffolded my entire, I think I'm Justin Bieber. So Rory is Justin Bieber. Also, Rory was born in Argentina. Chile. Chile. I hear I born in Argentina.

I'm half and half. Okay, so I got it half right. Yeah, that's right. The other thing about Rory also is Rory is incredible. We love Rory, and Rory also directed Smosh Hospital and also created and directed two episodes on BitCity that is coming out. I think next week.

They're on the felt board. Oh my God. Hey. So Selena's incredible and does this felt board, and I didn't even look at it. Watch their episodes on Bits City 612 and 7.10. They're so funny. Both Shane and I are in there, which we will touch on. But also, I just have to dive in a little bit more into your love for Bebes.

Okay. Is this a type of thing where you would want to meet and hang out? Can you know how some people don't want to meet? Sure. They're heroes. I'm that way. Yeah? Same.

met any heroes? I could have, but I genuinely, like, if I see them, I'm like, nah. Like, I saw Conan O'Brien at a music festival a year ago. And I remember it being like, whoa, like, I love Conan O'Brien. His comedy is so influential for me. Like, I really, like, so much of what I've learned over the years, I try to, like, model after him. But I was like, I don't want to say hi to him. Like, let him be. Was he, like, singing and, you know, he was just walking around. Like, he wasn't, yeah, he was just there. That was there. He was massive. Oh, he's the tallest man. He's taller than me.

But I think he's so funny. But I'm just like, I don't need to. I love, like, I love the work that people do. Yeah. I'm like, I don't know you and I don't want to be, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, like, mess up what I enjoy about the work. If I meet you and you're kind of an asshole. Yeah. Or if you're just having a bad day or whatever, I'm just like, I'm just going to let you be.

Do you know who I met because I was weirdly bartending their party forever ago? This is wild. Merrill Street. What? And her daughters. I was bartending a party at her son's house, and it was just me. Gracie Gummo. Who's that?

Isn't that her daughter? You just made up a name. Gracie Gumma. Is her last name Gummo? Gummer? You know what? Nailed it. Honestly, you're probably right, but I cared so.

So Merrill Streep, I will say, was incredible. Really? The epitome of grace, just so wonderful, so welcoming and funny. She was just so. She's hilarious. She was so relaxed. And so, and she looked impeccable. So anyways, Beeps.

Yeah, my ex-girlfriend looks a lot like Meryl Streep. What? Yeah, are you serious? Barrelstreet. I only realized it later. I was watching. I was watching. What's that movie with Alec Baldwin? No, no. Oh, like, it's complicated or it's complicated.

Hey, stop copying me. This is crazy. Nora Ephron. It's complicated. And the whole time I was like, oh my God, she looks just like my ex-girlfriend. But I didn't realize it until, and we haven't been together for years. Did you, did that make you want to go back with your ex? It's complicated.

It's complicated. It was just really, it was really jarring because like they look, yeah, they look really similar. You don't want to get into it. You just said that we were supposed to be vulnerable and real. I'll be vulnerable. Rory. She won't listen to this. Okay, so Rory, you also struggle to be vulnerable and real.

No, no, I, well, I actually kind of do. Which I actually don't think is true because every time I've hung out with you. You're like the most, you feel like such an open book. Yeah. Like every conversation, we'll be hanging out at lunch in between like shooting insane sketches for BitCity. And we'll sit down for lunch and you'll just be like, so what's like inspiring you guys lately? Yeah. Like you'll just throw out like a really deep question.

I wonder that's a safety blanket. That's a safety blanket because guess what? They're not really talking about their stuff. They're like interviewing. Oh. Oh. Try to have. You watch me and Angela try to have a conversation and nothing gets talked about.

I have. I have. We'll text each other and it'll be. She was texting me the other day. You guys are playing pong. It's just like going back and forth. It's not like pong. It's, imagine a tennis court.

And instead of facing each other, we're facing away and behind us our walls that we're hitting the ball into and it's flying over us and then hitting the other person. Yeah. Whoa. That actually makes, like, what do you guys actually accomplish when you text? We truly, the other day she was, I was texting her. And I was like, yeah, dude, I'm kind of mid crash out. And she goes, damn, fam. And I go.

Yep. And I go, absolutely for real. How are you doing? She goes, what does she say? Is it all in caps? Sometimes. Well, actually, a lot of the time. Yeah, I know.

And then she said, she'll text me sometimes something that's like, she'll say, you're a perfect human. I love you. Never leave. And then she said, enjoy yoga. I said, thank you so much. Enjoy yoga. And then she said, I just told you that I thought you were a perfect human and you, and you responded to me with XYZ. And then I said, oh, I need to thaw out.

And then I sent her a bunch of vulnerable, like, archival footage and pictures and videos. And I was like, this will have to do for now. Yours is through. You also, I will say, you take time to process things and respond with the right thing. That's so nice to hear. Yeah, you do. Because I'm very vulnerable with you. You'll be like, oh, you did great.

And I, like, get deep. And you're like, wow, thank you so much for writing that all out. And here's the thing. It's not with everybody, but with you, I feel very open and safe. Oh, man, that's so, I feel so, yeah. That's such a privilege because I, I texted Amanda about, I asked what the biggest difference between being in your 20s and your 30s are. Yeah. Because, baby, I'm bumping up.

Honey. I'm bumping up. No, you're not. You're in your 20s. I'm in my 20s. Yeah, you're in 20s. But I'm like the oldest, I feel like the oldest person alive. That's crazy.

Because I'm 29, just kind of overseeing all the 20-year-olds moving through their. There are people. You are 100, Rory. Okay, so you texting me. But then I'll turn 30 and then I'll be the youngest person to ever live. I'll be the youngest person you guys now. The youngest 30-year-old, yeah. Okay, that is so true.

When you're 29-year-old, when you're 30, you're young. It's weird. We can ask you guys a question about something? And then we're going to come back to this because I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. At what age do you start saying, I'm dating a woman? Like, how old did they, the woman? How old does the person have to be to be like, I'm dating this woman?

60s. I'm just kidding Do you know what I mean? Like if I came to you and I was like Oh I'm dating this girl or this person Yeah you are always saying girl So I feel like when you say woman It's you've decided that's where you're at

And woman to me, if you said I'm dating a woman I picture her a little bit older Of course but what's the age? 50s 50s This is where it gets interesting Okay okay okay 45 and up

Because there's some 41 year old girls But like imagine if I came to you and I said I said, Amanda, I'm dating, hold on. That happens all the time, it has to. It does, it does. It's crazy. It's like Shane and Chance for some reason my brain cannot. Like, I will interchange your names for some reason.

Roy, you better finish this thought. I'm hanging on by a friend. People haven't say me in Chants are the same. I can't see you. I say, oh, I'm dating this girl. You go, oh, cool, what's she? Oh, she's 40. She's like, like, if I came down you and I was like, I'm dating this girl who's 40.

Okay. So does that? But then I'm like. But what if I'm 40 and she's 40? And you said I'm dating this girl, I'd be like, cool. Dating this girl, right? If you were dating a woman, to me that means like she's older, she's mature, she's lived, she's divorced, she broke up with a man. Interesting.

I almost, see, I feel like she's already had a life with a man. I think you can compare it to when someone's talking about like, oh, I'm dating a boy. Like, I'm dating this boy. Like, you know, I think it's just more of how someone carries them. A boy is different than a girl, though, in my opinion. And boys get, they get. they graduate to guy, there's guy and there's man.

Yeah, you're right, there's three levels. There's three evolutions. A boy is like, you're dating like a boy. Hit the comments and let us know. For sure. I think, but there's a certain age where do you think it's almost an insult to be called a boy or a girl? Well, for sure. Totally, right? But then I say what if I date someone, let's say she's 34, but she has a child.

And I'm saying I'm dating this girl. You know, she's a woman. Of course. See, what's that? Motherhood. I feel like at a certain age, though, I'm just like, it's how You're passing over a certain part of your life. I don't think there's like a degree or an accomplishment you get that makes you a woman, though. Can I say a hot take here? What's the 10? What was that?

10 minutes. For what? That's your 10. Don't worry, you're not directing this. You're not directing. You can just relax. I don't. Mommy and Daddy, we've got this.

This episode of Smoshmouth is sponsored by Smalls. Shane, how are your kiddies doing? Oh, they're doing great. They've been zipping around the house. They've had so much energy since I've been feeding them smalls. That's amazing. Small's fresh cat food is made from protein-packed recipes using preservative-free 100% human-grade ingredients you'd find in your fridge. And it's delivered right to your door. You don't have to tell me. I love smalls. I use it all the time. Smalls cat food leads to high

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For a limited time, because you are a Smoshmouth listener, get 60% off your first order, plus free shipping and free treats for life. When you had to smalls.com slash smoshmouth. One last time, that's 60% off your first order, plus free shipping and free treats for life when you had to smalls.com slash smosh mouth. Wow. Well, back to the show. What were you saying? I couldn't even like really hear you. Oh, I'm. Anyways, meow, meow, meow. See you soon. Going back though, I think it's like, it's how someone carries themselves. Like it's how like someone, it's a confidence thing. Like there's no accomplishment. There's no job or family or anything you can have that's

like, you're now a woman. It's just like truly like, I think it's almost a decision. I think it's a vibe. But what I want to say is a hot take is I don't get upset if you would. call me a girl. I don't, that doesn't bother me. I think it's cute. When obviously an older man says, okay, girls, I'm like, okay, bro. You could almost argue like the true ultimate evolution of a person is to contain both multitudes. And that would be, right? Because you don't want to lose, because some people like get older and they're like, well, I'm a man, I'm a woman. And they lose, they lose the like, the fun of like, no, you still want to keep that part of you. Yes. But it's adding the, like, it's having both, being able to be.

If you said I'm dating a lady, I'd be like, what's going on? She treats in her purse. And she comes out of her carriage. She has six white little dogs. She has her gloves. She takes it off. I'm dating a lady.

She has Werthers in her purse. I'm not against. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, what about they thems? What about it? I still think, to me, what do you say?

To me it's just like a fucking adult. Like, just someone, like, there is a. I'm dating an adult. I don't like. I don't know. I don't know, I don't know term. I am dating an adult now. There's just a level of just like

people who I'm like, yeah, you're fucking grown up. What do you say they then? What do you say? Well, I have this conversation with many I'm dating a person. You can fucking, they can laugh. They are laughing. She's like holding it in shaking. No, she's not. No, that's just how Alexina laughs.

It's very cute and sweet. Alexina is a girl and a woman. For sure. She's not a lady. Well, she can't be a lady. Lady lady. Okay, keep going. Jesus. So what about a they-them, right? Because this is, well, I'm on the cutting edge here, right?

With all the things. You are seriously on the cutting edge. It's crazy. I'm on the cutting edge of they-them stuff. So would you say I'm dating someone? I'm dating a partner? The person. But here's the thing that always happens. Let's say someone's having a conversation. They're talking about they're dating a non-binary person.

And they go, yeah, well, I'm dating this person. I'm dating someone. They're a person. They go, okay, and they're non-binary, which is also the most clinical term for something that means kind of. You want to have some badass. terms. Wait, what do people say when they're dating you? Because you're they them. Yes. Do you consider yourself non-binary? Fierre. Because you're they them. Let's discuss this. I'm going into my book.

So, yeah, what do people say? I've had this conversation many times with people I've dated because this comes up. They go, what do I tell my family? I say, you tell your family I'm your lover. Okay. Okay. That's assuming a lot, worry. Well, you go ahead and assume, babe. Okay. You prefer lover, nothing else. I think it's hilarious. I think it's hilarious. To go to like a friend's birthday party of like the person you're dating and for them to be like

My lover's coming in. My mate is coming in. My mate. This is my lover. Because partner, I'm sorry. No. No? Fowl. Whoa. Partner feels like you're like really buttoned up and you're in a business deal. Yeah, it sounds like you negotiate. Well I guess

relationships are negotiation. That's beautiful and fair. That aspect exists. But you're talking about like the kind of like fun raw part of it. I think lovers the light of my life. I think light of my life sounds like it's a funeral time.

When they walk in a room, they were just, they lit up the room. Lover is good though. Because I do feel like that's, that's like a grown ass term. Lover is really cute. I don't think that fits for boy or girl, right? Like it's like, no.

It could be either. Because you got to know a lot of shit. You got to like, to me lover is you're like, you don't take life too seriously, but you really are super connected to this person. And you guys, you can talk about money and then have sex later. There's a responsibility and a respectfulness.

You can talk about your budget and your finances and that dead. And you can fucking fuck. And then you can fuck later. Yeah, yeah, yeah, hell, yeah. Wait, so, but for real. They, fist bump. They. They.

They, them. Pist bump. I would actually like a subtitle, a subtitle that when you caught to us, fist bumping, it says, they them. They them fist bump. So they, them, have had a really good time on set. Yeah, but I really. Hit the comments. I'm sure a lot of they thems listen to this. I'm so interested in this too, because what if someone assumed that you would want partner? Would that be a discussion? Would you let it? Have this conversation. They go, I'm going to introduce you to my family as my partner. I'm going to say, no, you're not your fucking partner. I go, I'm already, I'm already foreign to them. You're going to make me your partner. This is, I wish there was a better term. And I might have to come up with one. I kind of agree. Like, I wish there was, because this is totally different. But like, when I got married, I actually hated using.

the word husband. It made me feel like a different type of girl. Because like my husband's that. It made me feel that way, which is like very sad because that's such a societal thing because he is my husband. He's my lover. He's my mate. He's, you know, he's my best friend, whatever. But it's like, I really didn't like using husband. So I say H, which is his name. But I'm like, what is that connotation with husband because I married him. He is my husband. I think it's like, I don't know, we use these terms to describe our people. And I think some people use it in a way that I don't like. So I think that it's tainted it forever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it is bespoke, right? Person to person. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we're all so different individually. But I get that.

You say wife. I don't actually. You say Courtney. Yeah, wife does feel weird. I do want to be clear when other people use partner, it does, I'm not, I don't have judgment about it. It's just about you. It's about me specifically. And I think that's fair. And I think everybody's that way to some degree. I think what we see in a society is weird to put the pressure on like this is the, this is the term, like that you have to use. It's like, hey.

No, I don't know. I think it's the same where I like, it feels so sitcom-y. Like when I say, my wife, I feel like I'm fucking like king of queens over here. My ball and she. My fucking wife. My ball and shame. No, it just doesn't. My old lady.

I also think like Want to know how to make a marriage last? Shut up and do whatever she says. Make your wife happy. Let her win every item win. Happy wife, happy life. Yeah, I don't agree. I'm like, throw up.

I think all that shit is there. Throw up. Throw up. Vomit. I also think I, I don't know, I'd have to think about it more. It's just a feeling. Like, I'm just like, I just don't feel right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, I don't mind it. Yeah, it'll say. it. Like, it's the legal term. But here's what's weird. I sometimes also think, like, best friend almost feels like it ranks higher. I agree. I'm like, no, that's a higher accomplishment. I completely, that's so beautiful. I think because a lot of people get married and I don't know if they really enjoy hanging out with their wife. The amount of husbands who hate their wives are just, well, husbands who are incapable of being best friends with anyone who's not a man. They're like, God, I got to get out of the house. My wife is driving me crazy. So I actually

think it's a, it's an institution and it's a label that doesn't have much like what does it mean? So should we bring back the label in a better way? Because here's the deal. Sometimes H will say, oh, my wife, Amanda. First of all, he never calls me Amanda, ever. Like, never calls me by my full name, unless he's like, unless he's like upset.

Has he forgotten your name? Oh, my God. He's like, Sherry. He doesn't know my name. Angela? Oh, my God, he literally doesn't know my name. He keeps calling me Nakita. He's like, Nikita.

But he never really calls me by my phone name. And when he does, I'm like, oh, oh. But sometimes he'll be like, oh, this is my wife Amanda. And there's some, like, nice pride about it that I'm like, oh, that. Also, yeah, you can't say my wife because Borat ruined that. My wife. You literally can't say it. Is it really attractive when a guy brings up that thing that when he says my wife has like a funny thing?

Do you think it's attractive? No. Okay, yeah. I was just asking. you guys. That's some straight stuff. Also, I hear straight people are pegging now. That's like a whole thing. They love it. That's good. All of them are talking about it. I hear about it.

They love it. We made a joke like seven years ago. We wrote a sketch where I played a character that wanted to get pegged by a giant vampire. Wait, wasn't that me? You later played it in a later sketch. I was Lady D from Resident Evil and you wanted to get pegged. But it's become the joke that that's because of that

one time. But I don't even think it's a joke. I think like literally, I think they're just curious and interested. I just, I go, oh, please, yeah, please explore. Just do it.

Just do it. Just do it. Explore. Have a good time. Yeah, have a good time. Can I ask a vulnerable question? Yeah. After pegging, of course.

You guys took that really well. It's less extreme, but I actually feel like it's a more hot topic of like, I feel like tons of straight couples use partner. Oh, oh my God. Definitely. And that's something I didn't see until a couple years ago.

And I don't know. Do you think they do it so you ask? Do you think, I, It's like, I'm curious. I'm very, it's one of those things where I'm like, I don't know, but is it straight, is it straight couples trying to be like, oh, we're an ally? So we're doing it to like normalize it. Or is it also to kind of like, or is it kind of to also some straight couples to be like, we're not, we're straight, but we're cool.

Oh, you think they're like, we accept, we accept they, them. We accept everything that's going on. So this is my partner. Do you think? Yeah. I add my two cents. Oh, so we don't want to add. Baby girl. Royal rumble.

No, for me, I say partner because saying boyfriend is childish. Yeah. Totally. And I don't know another word to and that comes back to like the boy and the girl thing. Like saying girlfriend, saying boyfriend. That's true. Because you don't have to be married to like say partner or boyfriend or girlfriend. That reminds me of how

like after Courtney and I got married, I'm like I know so many couples who aren't married but I'm like, but they've been together for like 10 to 15 years and I'm like, you guys are kind of more like you are. And then that's the married thing. That's the societal married thing. Like they're as married as or more married. It's like you don't need to get married to have a solid relationship. But I get that. You can be together with someone for 20 years and it's like, well, I get the partner. But boyfriend, but no. Well, and that totally makes sense as like an interim to like in between like, okay, boyfriend feels young. We're not married. So there has to be like something kind of in the middle. Partner. And partner makes sense. I just want everybody to feel good. You know what might. You know what? I've had this thought. lately is just that I'm like, oh, the English, like, the English language is going through, like,

evolution. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's really weird for people. Yeah. And language is what affects our reality, right? It's why, like, language creates culture, it creates everything. So words are spells. We're realizing our language is so limited in under, like, our understanding of things. It's why I wonder if it's why we see so many people just cannot comprehend so many realities of, of humans, and especially when it comes to gender and stuff. They just cannot comprehend. it. It's like yes, because we're coming up with the words to describe it. Yeah. And you have to trust that. Especially like a name change. Yeah. Like they don't, I think there are some people who make it like very intense when you mess up a new language. And it's just like

they have been trained on this old language for whatever, 70 years. It takes a second for them to figure it out. So like, I think there needs to be given grace on both sides of that. Completely. Well, that that is something that with gender in my own. experience of it has been as long as somebody is trying or if somebody comes to me with like a true curiosity and they mess up i'm like oh i'm here with you for as long as you need to figure this out if somebody comes to me with any kind of debating tone or they they don't want the way i shut off completely like i just you can recognize disrespect what do you do you because it's not your job to educate them so what do you do when that's so sad because it's such an opportunity when somebody

comes to me with curiosity. There are so many things I could talk to you guys about gender-wise that is fascinating. Yeah. Because it really is taking the Matrix pill. Like you with like transness, it's literally about. Yeah. I've heard of that recently that the Matrix

is actually about transness. Oh, I don't think I've ever heard that. Yeah. Yeah. Because both of the sisters who made it are. Oh yeah. Yep, yep, yep. But they realized it after the fact. That's so fascinating. Interesting. The experience of it is very similar to the matrix because you essentially die and respond. Like that's how it feels. Like it feels like I've died and then reestablished all the terms of my life and had to. And what's interesting about gender versus sexuality, because when I came out as gay,

that's a different thing. Because when you come out as gay, you kind of go, I'm gay and there's nothing you can do about it. Gender is so much, in my experience, is so much more vulnerable because you come forward and you're like, okay, so I'm going through all this gender shifting, and I do need you to participate. And that is really vulnerable. Right, because when you're gay, you don't need everybody to participate.

In fact, you don't need their permission or anything. No. But when you are going through, now I do have a question. Yeah. Did you always feel this way about your gender? A thousand percent. I have a video of myself at one and a half.

I can send to you guys. I have this video of myself at one and a half. And I'm this like little girl on my mom's best friend's arms and I'm whispering in her ear. And she goes, wait, what are you saying? What are you saying? You're a boy. You're a boy. I'm like truly one and a half like toddling across the table.

Some of my earliest memories. That is wild. Yeah. I remember, uh, I took a psychology of gender class in college and they talked about studies where they're like, yeah, we, we were able to pinpoint and see it so early on. Yes. Like it's, it's not like, there's no cold. troll influence to it, it's just kind of there from the beginning. It's fascinating.

But for a while, like, you just kind of just kept going. Well, my circumstances were, everybody has a different story, but my circumstances were, I was, I was, I've always been endrogynous my entire life. Like, I don't, I don't know if I'm necessarily full boy. Like, I like being in the middle. I feel a bit alien. Like, I'm like, I identify with parts of both, but I don't fully identify. with one or the other, and it kind of changes from day to day. But my experience was I was always really androgynous, always with the boys, always played sports, classic, classic. But in middle

school, my dad died and that, and at the same time, people were kind of getting sorted into piles. Like it was like boys over here, girls over here. And I got sorted into the wrong pile. And to create safety for myself, I learned that status was very helpful in creating a sense of safety at a when I didn't have safety. So I became really good at being a girl. I was a really good girl. You showed me a picture of you. I was awesome.

Because here's what's weird. I'll say I do the picture you can put it up here. Here's what's crazy about Rory. I mean, I don't know if Rory remembers this, but the first time I met Rory, did you remember me from when I worked as a bartender? Yeah, yeah. Years ago.

And you were like, I was a girl then, so you probably wouldn't. And I was like, oh my God. Oh, I was, you were girl. You were the Meryl Streep. You were the Meryl Streep. I'm the Meryl strip of being girl. And that's saying, I'll talk to her and tell her that you said that.

I would say that to her face. So you think you're good? Try doing this for 25 years. That's actually really good. I'm really good. This episode of Smoshmouth is sponsored by Daily Look. Shane, I'm a mom on the move. I've got places to go.

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Yeah. You compliment me. Yeah, I do. I remember. And a lot of people do. A lot of people complimented that sweater. Yeah, that's true. Genuinely.

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Let's do it, buddy. Back to the show. We can't go back. No, we're stuck here. We're stuck here forever. Your dad died. You got sorted into the wrong pile, and then you were like, I needed safety.

I didn't have people around me. And, or like grief was so unbelievable. I was 11 when he died and the grief was like immeasurable. And I didn't have someone to process it with. So the only thing the adult side of myself knew to do was to seek safety through belonging. Yeah. And the way to do that growing up in the United States was their status. Yeah.

I've had this incredible sense of homesickness my entire life. My entire, like just this feeling of homesickness and only in the last couple of years figuring out gender has it like alleviated. Wow. Yeah. Because if you think about it, and this is something, I do have questions for you guys about the difference between being in your 20s and your 30s. I think one of the things that surprises me the most about the experience moving through

gender identity is the amount of grief that you experience. Because when I look at my 20s and I look at the mistakes that I made or it was always really hard for me to connect with people, which is why I was telling you guys at the beginning and this like I need to like just let you guys ask me questions and yeah let it be because I'm used to being I can trick myself into thinking I'm connecting when really what I'm doing is controlling you're controlling the narrative controlling the conversation to stay to stay safe to move the dials and it's not very interesting anymore to do that but when I look at my 20s it's really hard sometimes because there were so many moments where I really could have connected

with certain people and I wasn't able to because I didn't know that I was lying. Yeah. Whoa. Yeah. I didn't know that I wasn't showing up. And it was this feeling of like something is missing, something is wrong. And I have no idea what it is. I couldn't figure it out in therapy.

I couldn't figure it out with my friends. Because a lot of my friends, even to this day, like, I have friends who are gender queer. But like, I did not have any trans people in my life. I hardly. I'm friends with a lot of sensitive men. That's kind of my bag. Like an army of sensitive men. Am I?

An army of beams. Yeah. I'm a sensitive man. What? Of beavers. Of be. Just like because. Beavs.

Yeah. Well, that makes sense. I'm still kind of dealing with that of just being like, oh, there are kind of some ghosts from my past where I really hope at some point we can have a conversation about it because it was impossible. Even relationships. I'm like, why couldn't I. Oh. I couldn't. Because I wasn't.

I wasn't. I'm like in my body for the first time now. I think we underestimate the grieving process. And I don't just mean with your dad with this grieving process of your whole body. shift identity shift. You go through all of the stages and it's really scary to be very honest

about, and the only way that I can relate in the littlest bit is just postpartum of just this like, oh, this, I had my therapist be like, oh, everything you're describing this like unbelievable anger that surges out, this deep

sadness, this hopelessness, this weird, excited like you're on drugs joy all at the same time this deep understanding and then this massive confusion. She was like, oh yeah, you're grieving. That old part of yourself is gone. Yeah. Completely gone. And so I can't even imagine having it gone inside physically, but also you're at like another level of it being gone physically too. Well, I remember when I got top surgery because I was again, beautiful girl. So like I benefited a lot.

You were a beautiful girl. You still are, honey. I was a beautiful girl. Shane, stop denying that they were a beautiful girl. As the famous poet, Justin Bieber said. Yes, yes. But I was, I benefited a lot from being that way. Like, the system for women, I was in the spot of like, I benefit the most from this.

Yeah. And so to give it up, when I got top. But you're living in the Matrix. Yes, but I was like, it. The intersection of like actually figuring this out, because I'm kind of on the other side of it now. But at the time when I was really in my head and really sorting through all these feelings, I remember being like, oh yeah, of course I want to get surgery. But that would be like hanging up my jersey. Yeah.

Damn. Wow. Yeah. Literally because I'm like, oh, I can't like, it's not a party trick anymore. Like I can't like suddenly just flip a switch and be. Yeah. You're drawing the line. Yeah, I'm changing my literal body so that like my, the invitation.

to go play on that side and kind of play in that way or perform in that way is completely out the window. Yeah. And you worked on that role for so long. I know, I know. You're crushing it. You really are Merrill Street, but beyond Merrill Street. Yeah, except when you go to the arc light and they have like the cases of like, you know, famous costumes from roles. Instead of a beautiful dress, it's just my boobs.

Your boobs are just up there. It's a cast of, yeah. There's a line waiting to see that. But that's a really interesting part. I mean, there's so many different parts of this experience. It's insane. Yeah, and you're, you're, it's interesting because, yeah, you're, you're like swimming upstream against society's pressures and stuff with it, you know? It is the greatest splash of cold water.

Also, your ability to observe other people and see where their pain lives is, like, suddenly, it's like X-ray vision. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You see it so, you feel it. Yeah. And that's what's so funny. Now I understand why you're a little bit worried to get into your 30. because when you texted me,

what's the difference between 20s and 30s? Man, did I sent. I sent them a, I wouldn't say it's a novel, but I really thought about it because I loved that question. Because I think your 20s are yes. Like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I'm just doing everything.

I'm going to try everything. And then your 30s are no. And the noes are really sharp in the beginning. And then they're like a no, thank you. And I feel like your 30s, you don't have the choice. you're faced with all the shadow selves regardless. So like your 20s, it kind of like appears and you're like, what's this about?

I don't know. I'll deal with it later. And then all that stuff that you want to deal with later, just it comes full surface in your 30s. You have no control over it. If you are on the path of wanting to, you know, figure yourself out. What would be an example of that? So much.

So I made that shit up just now. What did I just say? Actually, no, none of that's real. I have no idea what's going on. It's when people go, well, yeah, you always do this. And you're like, oh. And you get so angry about it. And then, like, days later, and you go, wait, do I always do that?

Or was that person just rude? And then you go, oh, my God, wait, I always do that. I always do that. Why do that make me so mad? Why do I always do that? Where does that come from? So it's like you go down this journey. And to me, it feels like it's right in front of your face every morning of less like,

this is who you are, this is who you are, and some of it's great. I think that's starting to wash up on shore for me now. Like, I, for some reason, overnight, I suddenly cannot tolerate doing things I don't want to do. Yeah. I cannot tolerate. My body will not let me do it. You're ready for your 30s.

Yeah. But it's the thing that not everybody in their 30s or 40s or 50s stops. Like, some people go their whole life. If you're not, like, open to that, I mean, my God, look at our, look at our parents or that generation. Like I think maybe that's washing up on shore for them now. Yeah. I think for me it was definitely a bit of maybe it was like a child actor thing of just like always like, oh, what is my career going to be?

What is my life going to be? What am I working towards? And then suddenly you're in your 30s and you're like, oh, so this is my life. Like this is who I am. Yeah. There's no working towards. I mean, there always is working towards. But I'm like, oh, my life and who I am and that's today.

and I doing what I can do today and I'm enjoying my life today Yep And you know I've been thinking a lot about That I've built a whole career Following the dreams of like a 14 year old Beeps? Yeah

No, me Like a traumatized 14 year old Who's like You know it's gonna save me? Hollywood I mean yeah And then I'm like Oh my God

I feel that But you are doing really well But that I'm always why You're saying regardless of doing well Your career started when you were a kid Yes But also because I'm doing well, which is very sweet of you to say, I am being faced with moments of like,

oh my God, I thought this would solve everything. Oh, sure. Oh, boy. It's not. I feel that. I feel sober to what you're talking about specifically, though, about like, I just want to be happy. I literally, I don't care about it.

I'm like, oh, all of the rest of it can go, I just want to be happy and enjoy it. Which is why I'm so happy to be here. But then, but then you're in the present moment. and that's when you feel so happy, but that negative brain seeps in and goes, well, what are you doing? What are you going to do? What are you going to do?

So to me, it's the battle of when you are present, doing really what you want. That is the big magic. That's the joy. That's when, like, nature's colors are like, oh, my God, look at that green plant. Look at that flower. But then I think it's battling that ego,

that negative part of your brain that literally is like, this is what you're going to do all day. Yeah. Yeah. And I saw this, I saw this Instagram thing that I was just like, oh my God. It was like, anyone else have a baby and just want to quit everything and just be with your baby 24-7? It's not realistic, but like, you do.

Yeah. Because I think the part of that is that you see, they see everything for the first time. Yeah. So you get to go, yeah, look at those leaves in the wind. That's cool. Let's try to touch it. And it's like this, it is very big picture, zoom out. Have you ever heard this song, The Mother by Brandy Carlisle?

Of course. I love that song. So much. The song makes me cry. It makes me cry. I'm not even up to that. The mother. The Rose, Bet Midler, stop.

But also, Brandi Carla just did a duet with her wife. Really? Yeah, that's really good. Mother and you by Justin Bieber. I guess, I guess they call her, her wife. So there's that. Just going back to. people calling each other partners.

Oh, wife, yeah. It's fine. I get the partner thing. I wish Americans were more creative with their language. Like the Italians have words for everything. What would you say where you're from? Chile, Argentina. Esposa.

Esposa. My esposa. But my friend and I used to make up words because we felt this way. Like we came up, we used to make up fake Italian. Sorry if this is insensitive to the Italians on the chat, but we used to make up fake. We hate them. Oh, cool. Stop saying that.

That's what's crazy. Hey, we hate our Italian islands But yeah, we used to make a fake Italian word So one of the words that I remember we made up was like You know when you're like hooking up with somebody And like you're kind of staring into the ceiling Like you're so not there You're like this is just like bad

And I'm like not connected to this And I'm kind of just like breaking the fourth wall With some like fake audience or whatever Oh yeah of course because the camera's always there Always you're like whoa the camera of my life We used to call that Presora Presora.

They go, how was it? How was it with them? I go, Presora. That's way better than being like, I wanted to do that. What I just said. Yeah, yeah. Makes it a little bit easier to kind of get past.

I love that. The Italians watching this are like, that's a real word. That's a real word. And that's what it means. You nailed it. Actually correct. Yeah, wow. Yeah, it's really good to hear this that like you guys are too very grounded people in your 30.

We're both in our 30s. I mean, it's pretty cool. A lot of stuff continues. Like, it's not like, oh, I turned 30 and boy, you know, I was able to shrug off all these things. Like, it's still all there. You just start to like, I almost feel like in some ways like the difficulty on like my ego got cranked up. Like it's like, all right, we're continuing. It's like, oh, now we're going to hard mode.

Yeah. And I'm like, okay, if I don't, if I don't clock my ego more, it gets harder and harder and harder. How do you mean? Just because I'm like, oh, I'm older. Like, I have more experience. And I'm making this mistake. And I'm not doing this. Oh.

and I haven't done this. Like, oh, wow, I've extra fucked up. Whereas when you're 25, you're like, well, there's still time. Yeah, well, you push everything aside. Like, if I say something stupid and there's a comment that's like, Shane's wrong about that. You're like, who cares? It hits harder now that I'm an adult. Now that I'm like, or now that I'm like 34 because I'm like, man, I had way more time to figure that shit out and I didn't.

Because your fate, everything is right there in the forefront. All the stuff that you were like, ah. But it's, I mean, it's also a recognition of like, it's such a short amount of time. And then I'm like, oh, and I'm every day I'm kind of a baby. Like, every day you're figuring things out over and over again. Like, there is no graduates where I'm like, I'm wise now. Like, yeah, you gain wisdom and stuff. I want to be wiser, but I'm always going to be naive.

See, but that's what's good. I think a lot of people go, I've figured it all out. I've decided. I've learned. I'm done. And then they get to our parents age, especially my mom. I feel like my mom's like, oh, my God. I don't have the best relationship with, you know, so and so.

And do you think it's because of that? I'm like, yeah, it's because of that. Like, what? She'll call me and be like, I did this thing. You'd be so proud. I said, I said you can come over to my house and no one else will be there. It'll just be me. And I'll just focus my time.

And I was like, good for you. My heart is racing because that sounds really vulnerable. It's so vulnerable. I think my mom, like, fills up space with every, she wants to make everybody happy. Yeah. Like, do you want to spend the weekend at my house? But then a thousand random people are there. Mark's going to stop by.

He has stuff for me. I don't know how long he'll stay. He's bringing the ladder he borrowed like 10 years ago. Yeah, good accent. He's bringing the ladder he borrowed like 10 years ago. Latter. I think I'm my 20s. I was too much of an adult.

I actually don't think I, I think my 30s might need to be a little looser. I recognize that. I look back I was absolutely trying That's a very like child actor thing Yeah Yeah yeah yeah yeah So I think a lot of child actors like get so messed up later

Because they like were like I was never a kid My development is all messed up I wanted so badly to be like The wisest like most mature person when I was a kid And I look back and I'm just like God who the fuck was I? I was so cringy But I'll like sometimes look back

on like early Smosh videos like from 2015 and stuff. And I'm just like, God, I like, who is this guy? Yeah. And I like look younger, but I feel like I come across older and like more almost crumagony.

I feel totally the opposite. I feel like my 20s, I was very much like, I was just like fuck boy era always saying yes. I said yes to, I was just like everyone can F off. I am going to have the wildest time.

I don't know. I don't know because, I normally am a scared person. Is that so? Not now, no. Like, I, as a kid, I was a scared person, but my mom always was like, no. Get in the water. You're scared of that?

We're doing that. You don't like that? We're doing that. And so I think it's trained me to go, well, of course I'm going to do the scary thing. I have to do. And now it's so ingrained in me that I love doing the scary thing. I think that's why I love doing characters and performing is because it, like, connects to that part of my brain, but my 20s was 100%.

That's so funny. I just said, yes to everything. I felt like I was locked up inside my head until like 28. Like, I was like, oh, I don't know what life was like that. What opened you up? You ever done drugs? No. No, he never has. Do you drink or do any? Do you drink?

I drink. Do you drink? I, yeah, but it's not like it, that helps. But you've never done like a psychedelic. No. Okay. No. I like, not for, not for like not for wanting, but I never felt safe enough. The problem was I felt so anxious and unsafe. all the time that it was never in the zone to be like,

oh, I feel safe to do that. So interesting. So it kind of didn't allow for it. Would you ever? Sure. Yeah. The problem, I think a big problem was because of how anxious I was all the time, people were like, oh, Shane's too straight ed.

She doesn't want to do that stuff. So I was never in the space, and then it like kind of created that. That makes me so sad, because I think in our 20s, so much of what we do is we give people social roles to follow. Yeah. It helps us make sense of things. And so people point at you and they go, well, you're the straight and narrow or like, I guess that's what I am. I guess. And then you start to believe this idea of what we are when it's like, that's not necessarily who I want to be or who I am.

It was tough, though, because at the same time, I was extra terrified to take any risks because not only was I just an anxious person, but I also had this career that I had given up high school and the college experience for. So to me, I was like, I gave up, in my head, what I told myself for so long was I gave up my life. to pursue this. And if I don't succeed at it, then I gave up my life and I failed at this and I have nothing. And my life has been void. So much pressure. Oh yeah. I ruined myself with it. And now like I've got like it was like kind of once I got passed and then like honestly what freed up some of it was like some of the smosh experience. I'm like this is the weirdest. I'm in wacko world where none of this is the normal human experience. So it's like I hopped over from like any sort of normal path into weird world. I think that's why I mean I'm grateful to be at smosh for a lot of reasons. but that's one of the main reasons I'm really grateful for it. I'm having this like reckoning recently where like there's there's a path that you take, especially with directing and writing and acting and like the kind of traditional industry path. And it's really lonely. And if you are one of the youngest people in the room, it's very alienating.

Yeah. You have to be an adult. Also with directing, it's so bizarre because like I directed General Hospital for a long time. Which is wild to me. Yeah, I was 27 directing General Hospital. I can't even. Crazy. But the reason I bring up my age is because that show is the longest running TV show of all time.

So the people who work on this show have been working on it for 35 years. They're 100 years old. And they're phenomenal and amazing, but it's a really part of my job. Directing is a performance in a lot of ways too. And I've been changing my relationship to that a lot. Where I have to go and convince these people that I love that I'm in charge. Yes. That what I say goes.

And that is a really. intense thing to assume responsibility for at an age like that. Yeah. Well, it doesn't give you any opportunity to like, because you are also silly. It doesn't get you any opportunity to like be silly because it'll lower your status. And status was like the first thing that you kind of experienced to feel safe. So you kept the status forever. I mean, when I first met you, I was like, hello.

Nice to meet you. Really? Yeah. Whoa. And then, and then we started playing. And I was like, oh, we're silly. You're so curious. You're so interested.

You're so, like, free and open. But, like, how you first present yourself is, like, I will not be taken lightly. Like, I'll be taken seriously in a good way. That's it. No, no, I'm not surprised at that's the reason. What's so, because also a huge part of what I do is I'm a visitor almost always. Like, I come to places. Stay too long.

Whether it's a TV show or even larger projects. It's like that environment is only yours for five days, three months, however long it is. How long were you on St. Dennis? I integrated there. Such a funny show. I love that show. I was there. I shadowed a couple episodes.

So I was like around and I got to know people. And then I did my episode. My episode's only like two weeks. Yeah. It's only two weeks. Amazing. Another instance, though, of like being a 20-something. And yeah, it's just a very bizarre experience.

And I'm really grateful for the directors who are older than me or ahead of me who, can give me advice on those things. So what was it like when you came into Smosh? Because Heaven on Earth. It's, we're,

I mean, I wouldn't say we're all the same age, but we're kind of. It's a young place though. It's a weird. It is a young place. Where like the people in charge of everything are in their 30s, right?

And that's rare in any sort of entertain. Because you go to like studios and it's like, yeah, a bunch of 60 year old, 70 year olds are in charge. Or even if that, like they're 30 somethings, later 30s or in their 40s,

40s in there, they all have kids who are like, they're like, hey, I got to get out of here at 5 because I got to pick my kids up. They got a basketball game where I'm like, oh, we're in different stages. I have like, there's only two people here who have kids. Yeah. Yeah. So like it was really, it was really nice to come here. This time last year, I remember sitting and thinking about what I wanted and I said, I want to be playing games more. I want to be performing again because my whole background is in comedy. Performing and just like in the mix with comedians again because I'd taken such a break from that scene. Yeah. And I want to be. doing like sketch. I was just like there, I was like, this is, that is what I'm missing right now. Whoa. Wow. That's literally it. Dan Leahy actually messaged me and was like, hey, would you ever want to do stuff with Smosh? I was like, oh, I've heard of Smosh.

And of course I knew you guys from being younger, but I didn't know the new version of Smosh. Yeah. And I knew tangentially kind of, because Angela and I have been friends for many years and I was, I was just like, loved that she was famous now. Like, I just got such a kick out of it. I was like, oh my God.

Like, because I don't look at people's Instagrams or anything. And every once in a while I would like go see what she was up to. and be like, she's got like $300,000. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's like, and which is still a true for me with you guys, because I also only really know you guys. We've talked about this many times. But in the context of the studio or like when we go out,

it's places that people aren't going to bother you. I haven't been to like the airport with you guys. You know what I mean? Like I haven't been in an environment where you guys would be getting stopped. So for me, I'm like, it's crazy to me that you guys are famous. Anytime I've gotten stopped by a TSA agent, it is the sweetest thing ever. They're like, I know I cannot bring out my phone right now.

I know it is illegal, but I need a selfie with you now. And if you have a knife, I will let you get past. Don't worry about it. And let me tell you, I look my worst at the airports and I have the most. No worries. It's all good. It's all chill. All good.

Bring in whatever you want. It's all chill, Sarah Christ. Get on over there. And I'm like, thanks. By the way, we got some characters coming from this new bit city that are. Oh. Bangor. I think it's my favorite Amanda character.

Wow. That's what Angela said. I mean, dude. You got, talk about method. You got so into this character. that we would cut and you wouldn't break character. I wasn't there. And that's gonna be weird when you watch it,

you're like, you didn't break from this character. I wasn't there. All I know is I've been really challenging myself to play against type characters. Yeah, you really did. Bridget and Will You Be Mine was such an against type for me, but also still me. And Dari Aria, really excellent name.

Yeah. That was one of the hardest times I've last, this year was being in the writer's room. And I was being like, we wanna do a Mariah Carey character. Dariah, Dariah, someone goes, Dariah, I think it was you? I don't know if I came up with Dariahria, but someone did, and it's,

it killed us. You locked into this role. Yeah. And it is fascinating. And before we got on set, I look over and you're scrolling through your phone on your notes, and they're just, you're scrolling past texts of tons of writing.

Oh, yes. And you're like, these are all my notes and writings on this character. And you've come up with a, background. Yes. And I remember you turn to me and you go, every night she has a Snickers and Bailey's. And you go, what? And I go, it's just something that I want to keep in the back of my head.

That's just who she is. I literally, I had so much fun researching this character. And for the whole weekend, I always write like a one sheet for myself on every character. But for her, it was so easy to come up with lore for her. It was just like, oh, of course. Oh, of course. She has, I don't want to give anything away, but the Bailey's and Snickers thing, I was like, oh, yeah, she would have. Like, someone is so, like, intense on camera goes home and just unzips and it all lets out.

And she pours, like, a thick glass of Baileys and has Snickers, and she just sits there dead. Didn't you say that's based on someone you know in real life? Yes. Yes, my sister's old neighbor. My sister's old neighbor in Quincy Mass. And here's a deal. this woman, I swear to God, she lived by the door. So every time my sister would pull in, she'd go,

Allie, hey, Ali, and Ali would go, oh, oh, oh, I'm actually on the phone. It was never on the phone. It was just like, and she told her, she's like, yeah, I lost all this weight. She goes, how'd she do it? She goes, well, I stopped my nightly snack. Bailey's and Snickers. I stopped drinking a gallon of alcohol cream every night. She dropped like 50 pounds.

Let me tell you, people on the East Cows. what, that's what your 30s is all about. Yeah. So I recognize like, what do I need? I gotta drop that thing of Bailey's. This episode of Smoshmouth is sponsored by Zock Dock. Wow, Amanda, your teeth are sparkling. Someone went to the dentist.

Oh my God. The fact that you noticed that my teeth look amazing makes me think that we've been spending too much time together. Never enough time. Totally. Well, you know, I use Zock Dock to book my dentist appointment. Oh, and I use Zock Doc to book my dermatologist, my primary care physician. List goes on.

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That was what you were going to finish my sentence. Keep your glasses on. Don't tell me what to do. Okay. for fighting now. Yeah. Your teeth actually look awful. I hate you.

What do you guys think your biggest pattern was in your 20s? Jesus. Hard turn. Damn. Okay. Here we were having fun. Well, deriaria. The worst pattern.

Well, chew on that. I will say that your character as well. Oh my God. Is that? Yes, yours was like kind of a highlight just in that. Like there was such a production around your character. character. I always wanted to play someone so high maintenance that it needs like four people to get her up. That's what was really fun. But your character, I will say, really had me in stitches

many, many times. Chance plays like a Justin Bieber. Like a kid raw era, a kid era, like bowl cut Justin Bieber era type of sensation. And I play his dad. And I will say, I was trying really hard, I was trying really hard to like Kind of like just be in it And I was very inspired by some of the family vlog dads that I have met And they're all very similar And it's just like these dads who are super like amped They're super like yeah

Like they they love selling their product Which is their kids And it's just I'm like You looked so I was like Oh my God It's Shane You you I mean it fit you Like I was like oh my God

Sorry Listen, hey, hey, I'm going to say this better. Fuck. I'm going to say this better. The wig fit you so well that I was like, this is him. It's this guy. And what I loved so much is you smiled in such an aggressive way. Yeah.

You weren't like mad, but your smile could like tear flesh. Yes. You know what I'm saying? Performing kindness, right? Like they perform nice. Yes. But what was so funny about your character is you would always be like in the background of a shot just 32, beaming all 32 teeth.

Yes. You were just lit. Yeah. So anyways, this comes out a week from now, I think. I'm so excited for the Bit Cities. It was a fever dream. Did they tell you the callback that we put into the second episode? Should you reveal it? Maybe not.

I don't think we can reveal it. So I'm playing another character. There's also a great character. I do, I play like a middle schooler. Remember the joke? Yes. Jason! Yeah.

So I play a middle schooler named Amy. And man, she just matured really fast. Yeah. She got her period when she was 10. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, it happens. And she's just, you know, she's just, and she just. John Goodman.

Let me just tell you, she is the life of the party. Hell yeah. And she, there's a little Easter egg that she puts out that's connected to your character. Very excited. Yeah, the next couple episodes of Bits that you are. Not the same episode. They are a wild ride. But Rory, you pitched these episodes.

And I remember being in the writing room on the first pitch that you did. And we were all so jazz because, like, to me, it was like a nostalgic blanket, your pitches. It was just like, yes, yes. It was like that thing that you really want to do. And it's like, can we do this? Yeah, it was so much fun. I don't want to give too much away, but yeah. I think my pattern was wrapping my fears and excuses.

Oh, okay. We're back to the 20s pattern. Yeah. Yeah. Fears and wrapping your feelings. Yeah, like I would justify reasons why I didn't have to, like I shouldn't. And I would love to come up with reasons like I can't do this because of this reason or something. Okay, but now I feel like you're a little bit like.

yeah, I'll do that. Yeah, sure. Why not? So, like, if I offered you mushrooms... I just, I just like, gobble them up right now. That would be awful. I'm not talking about stuff like that. I think that stuff has changed over the years. I think it's now, like, I think it's a lot with, like, art and, like, creativity.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've talked about this a ton. Yeah. Creativity is a really tough one. Smosh has been nice for breaking me out because, like, we just have to make so much stuff. And it's helped so much, but now there's other spheres of, like, my... when I'm not doing things here, it's still, it's, because it's scary.

Yeah. And there was a, you recommended a book that I read, Big Magic, that was really great. And there's a part that talks about perfectionism. And I've talked a lot about perfectionism, but she kind of bowled it down that in a way I needed to hear, which is like, hey, perfectionism is just fear. Yeah.

Just afraid. It is like, yeah, and that's, I just need to kind of. And it's the fear of magic. Like, it's literally the fear of engaging with magic. And I think it's also recognizing, like, in American society, like, the capitalist productivity bullshit that we're in is really like it's it's recognized like that's been a big thing in my 30s of recognizing how much I was influenced by yeah like seeing them the manosphere has reached such a peak now that I'm grateful I'm in my 30s for when this is happening but it's been around for so long and I'm like oh I didn't realize how influenced I was by that of like all of my achievements and everything must add up to this like identity yes I'm like oh and it doesn't mean anything it's all bullshit yeah and I'm like, so you lose your ability to do things and create as a more out-of-body experience.

Yes. But it's right now for everyone creating what you do is all about building up into yourself, but that doesn't work. It's also the generation that we're a part of it, like it's invasive. It's in our houses. Capitalism through creativity is constant. Like whether it's the desire, I put out like a TikTok or an Instagram. I don't do a lot of content.

Like, that's not, I don't, it's just not like what I, I used to before, but then once it became, like, influencer-specific or comedy turned into, like, less about it just being kind of fun because it made your friends laugh and more something else. I really stopped and I'd put out a video that's like a behind the scenes of my episode at St. Dennis of just being like, this is how, if you've ever wondered how to direct an episode of TV, this is like how it's done. And after that happened, because the video did well, and immediately people were like, what is the next thing you're going to do? Like, what's the next video you're going to do? What are in my, or even my own team was like, this is great. I was really, I had, like, agents reaching out about working together. And I was like, this is so bizarre because the work has always existed, but you guys are seeing this.

And this is what you want to push. But this isn't, the reason I did this video is because I wanted to be useful to people who might want to know how this is. Like, when I think about the audience, I want to think about what my intention is with their attention, because I don't think that that happens enough. Yes. I mentioned something similar recently, I think, on this podcast of like, when we're doing this, I'm like, I want to entertain you.

Yes. Like, I want this to be funny, but so many right now are just trying to hold your attention. That's the difference. And there's such a difference. I can't. You can feel it too, because the intention, that's why I really do love. Cool. 60.

You do not need to focus on that. But you know what? You're just going to, so it's fine. You know what? I was living in London. and I was working on like a live show and I was working with this wonderful director and after I was doing like a stand-up set

and I got off stage and he came up to me and he was like gonna give me notes and I love notes because it's fun right and tear things apart and make it better that's part of why I love being here is that we are always talking about how things can be better for the audience's experience

and what we're trying to say or talk about but he said to me okay I have notes for you I've got good and bad I said okay he said the good is you're good at this and like you can hold the attention of an audience with relative ease, which is great. I said, and I was like, what, 24? I was like, okay, cool.

And then he was like, but the bad news is you came in here on purpose. You set the bar low so that you would overachieve because you didn't prepare. And that's not your job. Your job is to think about why you have the audience's attention and for it to make it worth their time. Because they came here and they deserve to have their time taken seriously. I love that. I know. And he was like, it's a very American problem.

And I was like, okay. It actually is, though. Well, yeah, because then when I came back, so that changed my brain chemistry around everything where I was like, no, you're right. Like, I should be appreciating the audience's attention. I'm making this more about me. And he was like, your job as someone on the set list is to show up and show why you're on the set list. Your job is to kill. I love that.

Changed my life. Changed my life. And then I came back. And when I started doing shows here again, I stopped because all I could see was people doing the same thing. Constantly. And I was like, why are you, I was getting upset because I was like, I'm here. You have my attention. Please do something with it.

Use it. Yeah. Or just be having tension behind what you're. I love that so much because I feel that when I'm on stage sometimes and you show up and some people are really giving it and some are not. And you're like, okay, well, even now as a performer, my time is being wasted because we have, we have this time. Like we get to like do our dream and our gift and you're half-assing it because you're afraid. Or you're waking at the audience being like, isn't that's crazy?

Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. I said I wrote a whale. Crazy. With YouTube, it's really rampant of, there's a lot of spectacle. There's a lot of like shoveling tons of money into a thing. But what we really care about is thought and like intention and honesty.

And I can notice. now when I'm watching a YouTube video and I'm just like, you're just pumping this out for views. Like, you know that you're going to get clicks on this, you know hold people, but I'm like, you, you don't care about this video. No. And I think that's what I care about.

And I can tell when someone cares about the video they're making. Yeah. And that matters to me more than even if I like the videos for some reason. What is the point? I do understand that you're in your job and sometimes it does get stale or whatever. But I don't know. As an artist, I think it's up to us to say, say if this is getting stale, you have to make a shift. You have to challenge yourself because

I hate doing something that feels robotic to me. And if it starts to feel it, it physically like hurts. I don't, I don't want to be around it. But I, it's why I struggle with so many mediums that are comedy. Yeah. Because I'm just like. Well, what you're describing requires patience. Like what you're describing requires a certain amount of time to make. And uncomfortableness. Well, yeah, to be thoughtful. It takes time. Yeah. We were actually, I was talking to a producer and she was like, well, you know, directors are the new rock stars. And I said, what do you mean?

She said, well, people aren't going to the movies to see. It's so true. That's true. They're going to see the new Ryan Coogler movie or the new Yorgos movie, the new Greta Gerwig movie. And my theory is that because directing, regardless, it doesn't matter. It takes two to three years to make a movie. Yeah. You have to think about what you're saying because the investment of time is so immense.

You have to kill it. Or you look at someone like contrapoints. Like she is she takes 18 months to make a video She drops a video it has two million views in the first 24 hours because people are like I know you took the time and energy to think about what you were gonna say and I want to hear what you have to say Because you appreciate her I don't I mean though that's the type of YouTube I love like There's a YouTuber named FD Signifier and there's like Jenny Nicholson and Anna Howard is really great too Yeah like people who are like oh you care like Drew Gooden dropped a video about ESPN just

breaking it apart for 30 minutes and I'm like, damn, dude, holy shit, like he goes through the whole history of it. And I'm like, yeah, that's awesome. But I'm like, you care about this. I was like, you made this not because you could have made something else and gotten way more views, but you care about this.

And I understand for people breaking into any industry, I'm like, yeah, you have no choice but to resort to the attention grabbing. I think I'm speaking to the people that once you get the attention, once you have your thing set, now it's up to you to like not just keep going with it. Because I look at the people

who are like some of the top YouTubers. I'm just like, dude, you're just making this place worse. Like, you know, and I really care about that. And I know that like we make so many videos. I'm sure there's times where people would say like we do that. I don't know, but like I think we really care about making stuff we care about. Well, I think I think that

that is evident by the community that that Smosh has created. Like the diehard nature of the people who love Smosh, I think it comes from the fact that, like, you guys are good people. You care about what you put, you think about what you say. You care about the things that you guys are making.

The culture of the company is really fantastic. And when we're working on things, like when we were working on BitCity, we cared more than anything that it was as funny as it could possibly be. Or same with Smosh Hospital. That it was as fun as it could also, mainly that. Like, it was as fun. Yeah. Like when you and I were really breaking down Cowboy from Smosh Hospital.

Yeah. I just loved that moment when it was. was just you and I and Rachel and you were like, okay, do this again, do the monologue again, but like really think about, like really think about your love for, I don't want to spoil it, but, you know, dinosaur, but really think about your love for your partner, you know, like rather than the jokes. And that to me is my favorite thing in the world because I only want to watch art, watching an artist go, I'm really into this and I want to show you. That's the kind of art that I want to watch. And it could be years.

And like, okay, random, Bjork is coming out with, you know, a new album and doing a tour. And I'm like, hell yeah. I will watch that, even though I haven't watched Bjork in years. But it's like, I want to watch someone go, I found this big magic and I want to show you all. And I think we're missing that because it's, it's, it doesn't always make money. And it takes time. People are start for just, I think, authenticity. Yeah.

I think we're so, we've been oversold so much shit. Yeah. That I think these movies like, like sinners and, and weapons just feel. original in a way that people are just like, oh, this person, this is I'm getting something a little bit real here. And I feel that with YouTube too. And I feel that with you as a director, I feel that you're like, no, we didn't get that. I love that. I'd rather hear that of like, okay, we're not quite getting that. And you're like, and I'm like, you're right. At this point, I'm like, or I'm tired or whatever, and I'm trying to get this line because, you know, we need to move on or

whatever. I'm thinking about, and it's like, no. Like, just focus on. the truth of the scene. Like, what is the truth of it? If all else fails, like, how do you respond truthfully in this moment? I love you as a director because you're so curious about what does this mean? How do we explore with our minds and how are we honest about what I'm feeling in this moment? Because it comes through in everything that you make, right? Like, you can feel when something feels watered down.

Human beings are smart. They're intuitive on like a body. level. Right. And I think that's what bothers me sometimes about if I go to a show or something and I can feel them winking at the audience. I'm like, you're doing this for yourself. You're not, like, or absurdity for absurdity's sake without commitment. Oh my God. I really don't like. I understand completely. But I love absurdity when someone is dedicated to the reality of the absurdity. Yeah. Love that. I think that's, I mean, Tim Robinson is a great example of that. Like, he is so committed that it works. But the second I,

feel somebody feel they're too cool for it or that they are... They're, like, touching the absurdity. They're touching the character. It's not vulnerable. They're touching the comedy. I think because it's really scary. It's really scary to commit. Of course.

But I love it. We're in a very critical time, like, on the internet. We, like, love to critique, but we're scared to make. And so it's like, because by making stuff, you run the risk of being cringy. Of being critiqued. Which is worse than death, apparently, no. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, it is scary, but I don't know.

It's also freeing. It's the best to like truly make something. And you can make something and like we've had this experience. I've had this experience many times over the past 11 years of like making something that is super successful. Gets a ton of views but I'm like I feel nothing from that. Yeah, yeah. And then making something that nobody watches and you're just like, oh, that was the best experience of all time. I did a screening last week of a bunch of my work and it was really fun.

And one, the first thing I showed was a short I made like a few years ago. I put all these up on YouTube now because I think I'm going to start migrating over to YouTube. I just can't with the other platforms. But first short was a short I made for like $400. And the whole concept is it's like a tasty video and those top-down videos. But it's like what happens if the camera keeps rolling

and like this woman's husband comes home. I love that. And I made it for $400 and probably five hours with a few friends. And it didn't get festival play. It didn't get whatever. But it is one of my favorite things I've ever made because it's just pure. The whole thing.

It's just like, we just kind of did this because it was a fun idea. Totally. To watch it. It has that like, when I watch it, I can see myself in it where I'm like, oh, it has that little magic of like, I wasn't trying to do it for anything.

It was like this short that was fun. That's my favorite. That's my favorite thing. That's literally why I do it. When you talk about it and you still get like giddy about it. Yeah, that's my favorite. Damn. Anyways.

Conversation over? I feel like. We have to get out of here. I'm sorry. I have to go read Reddit stories And I have to be in Reddit stories Wait, you're in it? Yeah, I'm gonna be in this one.

Oh, fuck. This one? This one? You're about to record? Who's in it? Yeah, Shane. I'm following you to the cat, brother. Brother?

I can't believe we're gonna walk over there. Would you guys accept me if I just called everyone brother? I think sure. Or Chica? Well, yeah, Chica, I feel like, don't you do that? Broie, no. Literally, no. Here's the thing.

I think you could do whatever. and people would be like, it's not okay, but we can't stop her. There's nothing you can do about it. Wow, I was so wide. Yeah.

You'd go to HR and then just be like, look. And I go, brother, me too. They'd be like, can you please stop? We can't stop.

What? It's up to you. You said, please, brother. That sounds fun. Okay, brother. Okay, brother. Roy, this has been incredible.

Yeah. This has gone, can I be honest, this has gone exactly how I expected it to go. Wait, really? Yes. In a good way?

Yes. Because this is how our lunches have been. The past few weeks. I'm so excited. Do you want to plug anything right now? I put a bunch of my shorts on YouTube. I'm really not online a lot. Like, that's just not my...

Okay, but what is this short call that you just talked about? I think on YouTube, it's just $400 short, but the actual short is called A Holiday Casteroll Your Man Will Love. I love both of those titles. It is really fun. And there are other shorts up there, too, that I really care about. And also check out BitCity. That's coming out two episodes directed by Rory,

creative by Rory. I'm so excited. We all worked really hard on them And good stuff So excited Yeah Alright Okay

Hey Hey Can I Am I doing this right? I've never done this before Here's your thumbnail I literally just Shubbed my finger in there

Bye guys Bye guys All right drop the act Yeah I can't All right you need to go Those BitCity episodes Are not gonna be good He's such a hunk

I know He's very hunky And look he's been very He didn't like that. Oh, my God, stop.