Smosh Mouth - S1: #14 - Why We Broke Up w/ Ian & His Ex-Girlfriend Pamela Horton

Episode Date: May 22, 2019

Mari sits down with Ian and his ex-girlfriend Pamela Horton as they open up about their relationship, the reasons it ended, and how it’s still possible to be friends. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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If you have questions or concerns about gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. Ben MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Ramble. It is very weird that you could share everything with somebody.

You break up and then you have to become mortal enemies with them. Communication is difficult. We learn our entire lives. It's like working on a muscle and it sucks. You can be happy in a relationship but not be happy all the time. You can be angry at somebody but still love them and feel super happy with them. You guys were speaking your own languages as opposed to speaking each other's languages.

That's very astute, Mari. Damn, we're getting deep in here, you guys. Are you ready? Oh, I like being able to see you. No, you can't look at yourself, Mari. What? I would just look at myself the whole time. Oh, baby.

Welcome to Smoshcast. This is a very special episode because today I am joined by Mari Takahashi, as you all know, and Pamela Horton, who some of you may know as my ex-girlfriend. That me. This was spurred on by me thinking it'd be a great idea to have Pam on for our two truths and one lie episode. And then, Pam, you got a text from Mari? Well, I told her about the idea of coming on for two truths and a lie, and I was like, I don't want the summary of our relationship to be a joke on the Internet. So she was like, well, I think, you know, if you want that, you should talk to him about it.

And so I think the podcast would be a good idea. And I was like, that is a good idea. He said, negotiate hard. Yeah. I saw the text come in when we were in the pitch meeting. I think I already explained this in the last podcast. But we were in the pitch meeting, and I saw the text come up. And I was just like, oh, no.

And everyone was like, what, what? And I was like, Pam thinks it'd be a good idea for uh her to be on the podcast and everyone was like yes and i knew i knew that it was also a good idea it's just whoo baby but here we are it's all about communication yeah just talking about things we also want to bring to light just how we want to normalize what we went through, you know? Yeah. And I think, you know, people need to see how different, you know, relationships can be, how different relationships can end. You know, because we only see on the Internet, you know, the best parts of relationships.

Yeah. And then suddenly there's the breakup video. Yeah. And it's like, wait, how did we get from, like, perfect couple goals to suddenly, like, people being, it's always kind of that thing where it's like, we're still friends, you know, and, like, you know, we still love each other, but we don't. It's like, wait, what?

Yeah. Huh? Yeah, it's weird because i think you know like all of us and i think a lot of people look at like tv and hollywood movies and grow up with those being like a measurement of what relationships should be like yeah but now with online culture we're able to see so much more and then the people who are going through those relationships are like well how do i navigate this what do you public? What do you keep private to yourselves? And then when you do break up, like, how do you tell an audience that has followed that journey for so long?

Well, and also, too, you hear comments, like, when people are like, oh, you know, like, I think I want to marry him or whatever. And they're like, you guys have only been together for a year. It's like, I'm sorry, is there some sort of outline I'm supposed to stay within in like a relationship? Or, you know, like people will talk about their relationship and then receive that level of, I don't want to say judgment, but people think they know how relationships are supposed to be. Nobody does. Nobody does. I mean, we have a friend, her parents were in an arranged marriage and they're still together.

So like, you know, It's different for everybody. I think the best thing to get out there, and I think that one of my goals with this podcast is just putting out the idea that nothing is black and white. It's all shades of gray. 50 shades. 50? I was like, don't say it, don't say it. I did.

So do you have anything more to say about that before I dive into this beast? No. I think we'll be able to hit a lot of different topics on it today, and I think we'll get a bite-sized sort of look into your guys's relationship in this modern world. Okay. I think before we, I mean, we can't even talk about the sort of breakup without talking about how we got started, I suppose.

Yeah. And, you know, because in all those YouTube youtube videos it's always just about the breakup and and you don't get any sort of color to like you know what happened you know how you even got to that point well i feel also too a lot of youtube couples are very up front with like how we are this is how we met and this is what we do when we get home and this is you know they line it all up yeah yeah so i think we'll start from the very beginning yeah how did you guys meet well uh i guess i guess from the very very beginning uh pam dm'd anthony uh wanted to do uh and what year was this this is 2006 15 i mean I was like, 2006 or 15?

16 or 15. 15? In 2015. Yeah, that's what I thought. The only reason I slid into Anthony's DMs and not yours is because Anthony had been following me already. Yeah. And, you know, at the time I was working at Playboy and Gamer Next Door, and we had this show called Mansion Game Night,

and we wanted to get people in so that we could collaborate and immediately we were like oh yeah it'd be great to get smosh and you know since anthony followed me i was like you know what like let's just let's just you know break the ice with hey do you want to come to a playboy party which was a thing that a lot of people wanted to do so it it was a good end. Yeah. So, um, you know, Anthony was like, Oh yeah, you know, I think I got something going on that night and I didn't hear anything from him. And then, um, uh, I think they had a conversation and then Ian came in and, uh, wanted, definitely wanted to go to the party. So he started following me and slid into my DMs.

Yeah. Yeah. So Anthony had mentioned it when we were shooting and and he's like yeah the thing of the playboy partner was like playboy party and i mean just just like it's just one of those bucket list things you know like just just to say you did it so i was like oh that sounds cool i want to sure and it was that it was at comic-con and we were already going to comic-con for like a assassin's creed uh thing so I was like yeah why not while I'm there go to this party so and did you go by yourself because we were all there but I know that we didn't get to go I took I took Ryan Todd our director I felt like you know Ryan had done so much work for us. He deserved a little treat. So I got, you know, I got a plus one.

So I took my boy Ryan. Yeah, so I slid into your DMs. I was like, hey, I'll go. So we went there. You were very lovely. Was. You are a very lovely person. The party was terrible.

Yeah, it really was. Because you said normally, like, Playboy throws, like, this very, like. The party was terrible. Yeah, it really was. Because you said normally Playboy throws this very elaborate party. This time they just rented out a club. It was all douchebags. I think the issue that we were running with was the fact that no sponsors wanted to pay the amount that it cost to throw a Playboy party.

So we just did what we did. So I tried to do my very best to make sure that he had a good time. He was cramped in this, like, small area, and then I pulled my bunny suit power, and I've never done this before. I walked up to VIP, and they were like, you can't come back here. And I was like, they're with me. And then I brought them into VIP, even though they weren't VIP, because it was, like like an open space.

You could sit down. It was nice. And then he, from that point on, all he had was the ability to talk to me because I had to, you know, make sure I was with him in the VIP section. Otherwise, he would have been kicked out. Yeah. So we talked for a while. It was very loud. And then we left.

And then I think I threw my number at you in the DMs. I was like, hey, these DMs are really annoying to talk, so we should just exchange numbers. That's a move. Even though DMs are pretty much the same thing as text. It's like it's so much easier if you just text me. Yeah, yeah. So did that, and then I was like, hey, when we're back in L.A.,

let's hang out or whatever. And then we went on what I, what I outwardly, I didn't think I was, I was taking you out on a date. But I think like, in my deep, deep subconscious, it totally was. But I ended up, it ended up being the most cliche date ever, because we, we went to dinner, and then we got a drink dinner and then we got a drink and then we saw a movie so it's like the ultimate like the ultimate like cliche date but then we finished it off with um mario kart because you were talking up your mario kart game and um who won i won ian did wow but but Wow. Rematch needed. But Pam claims that she was sandbagging. Well, also, too, we have a history of evidence where I have sandbagged Ann. This is true. This is true. She's a sandbagger when it comes to pool billiards. Because she was, I could tell, she was playing along, like, oops, ha ha ha.

And then she would just clean up. Just a ringer. Yeah. But I still like to think that I beat you fair and square in Mario Kart. I'll give that to you. You have that, that's yours. Yeah. So you guys meet.

At what point does that move into this is getting serious territory? Did you guys know when it was getting serious? And what was that like? I was of the mindset that, you know, like this is a serious territory. Did you guys know when it was getting serious? And what was that like? I was of the mindset that, you know, like this is a work thing. I, you know, really want to work together. And he sort of made it clear that it was like Ian and Anthony

were never going to be on Manchin game night. But at the same time, I had so many things in my head. So although Ian was like, we should do this. We should date. For a good amount of time, I was like, I'm not ready. I had just gotten out of an emotionally abusive relationship. I was really worried that the reactions and the way that I would treat him were a conditioned response and not really me. So I was very, very upfront with the fact that I was like, I'm not comfortable, you know, like I just not, I'm not ready yet. And he was a patient boy.

That's one way to say it. Another way to say it is persistent. Yeah. Yeah. But understanding, like, and I think, you know, so we hung out a few more times and I think the kind of the point where you were asking, like, when, when did we sort of know that it was something more for me, it was, you know, when, when you opened up to me about sort of like your whole like crazy history, like, you know, you did not have the, the best environment for a, a healthy upbringing, I guess I should say. That's a good way to put it. And I knew other people. I sort of dated somebody before you that went through just way less than that, but wore it on their sleeve. And that was their identity of like,

this happened to me and this is who I am because of it. And you were who you are in spite of of your sort of environment and and that to me was was the thing that really stood out because it just showed like how strong of a character you had and for me that was that was that was really cool um well for for me i had you know, usually I set my walls pretty hard and I'm like, I'm not going to do the thing. And also too, I had this like apprehension about dating someone famous, you know, like I don't want to be the girlfriend. I mean, although I loved being the girlfriend, I didn't want to be known as the girlfriend. Like here's Ian and his

girlfriend. Here's, you know, like I wanted to be, I had my own drive. I wanted to be known for more. But at the same time, like I felt there was something real because normally the way that I process things is I deal with something and then I go to what I call my Pam cave. I don't want to be mean to anybody. You know, I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings by saying something I don't mean because I'm angry or I'm sad. So I go to my Pam cave, I heal, I get some perspective, and then I come back and I try to be a healthy adult. And Ian was the first person in my entire life that ever made me feel comfortable talking about what it was that bothered me or what, you know, the hard stuff.

And he listened, he gave, you know, neutral advice. And it really, it really, you know, it hooked me. I fell, I fell. I feel like, you know, I mean, obviously, Ian, you're a public figure, you are also a public figure within like your industries. And did you guys have a discussion of like, what are we going to make public? What are we going to keep private? My initial response was to keep basically everything private because that's how my last relationship was. I didn't really post anything about our relationship. And maybe that's just because like i wasn't i wasn't always

like so sure of everything for for pam and i like one of the first things was well i guess i guess we probably can't collaborate because we didn't that was that was one of your one of your big things pam was was i don't want to be seen as this person that's using like you didn't want to be like a climber yeah you didn't want to look like a climber. Yeah. You didn't want to look like a climber. So even in opportunities where I could have, or I could have pushed more for it and received it. I didn't because I didn't want people to be like, Oh, well she started dating him and now she's getting stuff. Oh, like typical or whatever. Yeah. And I mean, you're super talented in, in your space with gaming and everything. So I was pretty confident that, you know, you doing everything on your own, you would eventually reach a place that would be, you know, beyond whatever I was doing.

One of the best things about my relationship with Ian was the fact that we've always been very upfront with each other. Like, you know, at the beginning of our relationship, we had already had the religion talk, the baby talk, the, like, every important talk that couples need to have, we had it at the very beginning. And we also, you know, we had this, I don't know, like a set of ground rules of sorts. Like, you know, at the beginning, it was like, don't post any pictures of Ian on my social media, which I was I totally get and stuff along those lines. And because we we had public personas that we were very, you know, particular about how we were perceived. So we we had a great amount of respect for each other. And we still have a great amount of respect for each other and we still have a great amount of respect for each other and that's something that i look back on and i'm like that was super grown up yeah

and obviously like some of those some of those like rules changed or relaxed like you know it came to a point where because i think at the beginning of the relationship obviously you don't know where it's going to go you don't completely know the person so you know before you i i did i did a a small about a small amount of manhoeing like not a lot but like a small small amount so right of passage so so you know if i was if i had seen these other sort of like small like dating things not work out, like I wouldn't want to post about it online and then have like everyone know about this person. Then everybody come after this person because our relationship didn't work out. So at the beginning, I was very guarded. And then, you know, as as the months went on, I was like, no, this is like this is a real, real thing.

Then it was like, OK, I'm going to make an announcement. Then this is going to be sort of just a normal thing for people to know about. So I made that post where I was like, this is my girlfriend, Pam. I love her more than anyone else. And we're together. And if any of y'all have a problem with that, too bad. It's so interesting because, you know, without the public persona, as you do that within your own friend and family group,

where it's like, when is it the right time to introduce so-and-so to the rest of your people in your life? But having a public persona, it's like, okay, I'm doing this with hundreds of people or thousands of people or however large your audience is. And so it's kind of like you're almost putting on this responsibility on everyone else. So it's a weird thing to have to navigate these days. But I think you guys did a really good way by communicating in the beginning. Communicating is hard, especially difficult situations.

I feel like I'm still working on it after being with the same person for nine years, and he still has to pull things out. And he's like, I know you're upset. What are you pissed about? And I'm like, nothing. And then five minutes later, I'm like, okay, it's this. But it's really difficult. How do you set yourself up to have difficult communication with each other?

How do you sit each other down? How do you rev yourself up to do it? with each other how do you sit each other down how do you rev yourself up to do it how do you guys navigate that i know you you you have one side to this and i think actually mar you and i are probably on very similar pages when it comes to like being open about you know what we're feeling i guess we both have toxic masculinity you and i yeah so masculine yeah so that was that was always an issue with me and i'd say that was that was one thing that i never i never quite worked out in our relationship and that was actually one of the big that was one of the big big you know i'd say that was the ultimate hitch in our in our relationship. I mean, do you agree? It's up there. It's up there because it was one of the first issues that we had started having because I had gone from, like I said, being able to talk

to somebody about my problems. Then when the issues started arising in our relationship, when I tried to talk to him about them, instead of being open and receptive he was very closed off and uh just uh not necessarily unwilling to talk but just didn't know what to say and so he always felt put on the spot and you know that led to a little bit of agitation and i uh because of my emotionally abusive relationship when anger starts rising i start like minimizing you know like I so that made for a not very good level of communication and it just built from there because we were never able to truly like you know uh figure out a true way to communicate with each other yeah I think there's some sort of saying where it's like without communication two people in a relationship see the relationship completely differently like you you're like you're reading two different books

ian was there any point where you felt like you were getting better at communicating and why did that happen how did you how did you get there no that's an honest answer i don't think i did get better i just want to take a quick break from all this heavy, heavy stuff to announce that we got a sponsor today. Yeah, baby. It's ZipRecruiter. Hiring is challenging. Being boss smosh. Now I understand that. But there is one place you can go where hiring is simple, fast, and smart. A place where growing businesses connect to qualified candidates. That place, my friends, is ziprecruiter.com slash smosh. ZipRecruiter sends your job to over a hundred of the web's leading job boards,

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ZipRecruiter for free at this exclusive web address, ZipRecruiter.com slash Smosh. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash S-M-O-S-H. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash Smosh. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. That's where I see my biggest failing in the relationship was I didn't get better and I didn't put in the work to get better. You know, I think I would go through like spurts of trying. There's peaks and valleys of my attention to our relationship because I, a lot of times I put work first. I would put, you know, Smosh first and, you know, making sure that everything was going smoothly over there, especially lot going on outside of the relationship. And I, and I let that affect this, the thing between Pam and I.

It's a really easy way to not deal with things. And I think you and I are really similar. We don't like, like confrontation. And for me personally, the reason why I don't communicate a lot of the times is like, I get into a thing where I'm like, no, I can do it myself. Like I'm independent. I can figure it out. And I think that's the reason why it builds up for me when from the outside he knows me so well that he understands that there's something going on.

But he still has got to pull it out of me. And did that come, like, did your sort of, like, closed-offness come from your, because you were in a long-term relationship before that. Was it eight years? Yeah. So did that come from that, or was it more of just, like, family? Like, we don't talk about, like, how we're feeling, that kind of stuff. I do think, I mean, I think it's both, right? I think all of our experiences add up to like who we are.

I think as a family, we're very Japanese. We don't talk about things that essentially don't matter for everyone, even though they really do. Communication is very stunted, especially about emotions and things like that. I think with my last relationship, it was, it got to a place where it needed to end so much earlier, but everything that we talked about was almost a burden. You know, a simple conversation turned into days of talking about it, sitting

down and like, we got to talk. And so I think that it was, some of it was just like being tired from having to have to have these talks. And because your energy level changes when you have to have these talks. And so it's like, you have to put a hold on everything, including work and the things that you can run away to like TV and entertainment. Distractions. Yeah. And you just got to put yourself down, hunker down, just do it.

But those talks weren't productive. So what's the difference between the talks you were having and like the talk that you should have been having? I feel like, I mean, I obviously don't know the situation, but I feel like it's like actions speak louder than words. Saying you're going to do something without actually opening up your mind and doing the thing. I think that you say, I'm going to try. I'm going to try harder and I'm going to do this and I want to do this and then not following through with your word.

Yeah. I mean, I think sometimes you say like, I'm going to do blah, blah, blah to make things better because it's, it ends the conversation it makes it easier yeah but i think you know i i think it's also seeing what you can and can't do in a relationship and understanding that and it only comes from experience of being like you know i remember my last relationship i would cry on the phone as a way to communicate that there was something wrong without me saying those things. And it was just a reaction. And like, we go so deep with it, but it goes back to like childhood, right? Like, how do I get a reaction out of somebody? What do I know in my life? And, you know, sometimes it's yelling at the person, Sometimes it's crying. Sometimes it's, you know, doing something really like drastic to hurt them emotionally or physically.

So it goes back to like what you know as a kid. But to answer your question, I think it's asking having my partner ask the right questions is what it came down to for me to be able to communicate better. Yeah. So Pete just knows the right the right angle, the right road is what it came down to for me to be able to communicate better. Yeah. So Pete just knows the right, the right angle, the right road to go down. Yeah. And that road is just asking really hard questions and he doesn't pull any punches when, when he knows that we need to talk about things. Communication is difficult.

I think, I think we, it's something that we learn our entire lives. It's like working on a muscle and it sucks. Because I guess with you and Pete, it's like, well, you know, this is going to hurt maybe for a short while, but the lasting effects are going to be much better. Yeah. Yeah. That's the positive of it. I think a lot of people don't do it because it's like, well, what if this is the catalyst

that makes a relationship end? If a relationship was going to end because of a conversation, it shouldn't be happening in the first place. Like just like a conversation where you're establishing who you are, what you know you need and a lack of willingness to compromise.

You know, like if you approach someone about that and lack of willingness to compromise you know like if you approach someone about that and they're just like it's like okay you know i did i did my best you know yeah absolutely were there any um examples of real successful attempts of communication and also failed attempts that you can think of in in most cases, I'm a good listener. I'm, I, I am very open to hearing about the other person, but it's hard for me to do the opposite. It's hard for me to sort of spill my guts. Where does that come from? Do you think? I don't know. It's, I mean. I mean, it's probably very similar. Both of my parents are Japanese.

I think some of it comes from my upbringing. I don't think we really talked about our emotions that much. And then the long-term relationship that I was in, a lot of those conversations could become a little offensive, and I would have to go on the defense. You know, obviously I, I think she's, she's wonderful and we were still friends, but I think I, I sort of built up this sort of defense mechanism of just like shutting down and being like, okay, I'll just, I'll just ride out this storm. And then, and then tomorrow will be, or, or not even tomorrow, like 30 minutes later, things will be okay. I think for me, you know, I sort of carried those, those scars of my past into this relationship. And I think, you know, what I'm, what I'm finding out now, um, and,

you know, even sitting here is it's just kind of like you know you can't carry you know it's good to carry some things from the relationship some things that you learn but you can't carry all the baggage from from your relationship into the next person because that person isn't the same exact person as the person you're seeing now what they well some people do end up dating the same kind of people that's true but that's that's a totally different kind of uh you know thing but it's weird. Like, we get triggered, right? Like, if something is similar to something you've felt beforehand, you're like, okay, I know what to do in this situation.

I'm going to armor up. I know what my pitch is. I know what I'm going to, you know, like. Well, every, I mean, every person, every individual person is a different puzzle piece, you know, like, you have to take the time to get to know them. You have to figure out how you guys work together. You have to, you know, have a lot of introspective. And, you know, if you don't enter a relationship with a completely clean slate, it's going to be really hard to establish the connection that you two genuinely have, you know? It takes years to figure that out too uh you

know it's like how many relationships have we all been in we're like just figuring this out like and and almost having to have to like stop ourselves even though we know it our emotions get a hold of us so much that it's hard to i feel like i feel like before before the relationship that I had with Ian, he mentally broke me down. Like, I didn't know who I was. I didn't know because he had conditioned me. He had manipulated me. I mean, emotional abuse in some regards is as the life, the effects are as long lasting as physical abuse, because you, the person in your head isn't you. And then you have this, you know, existence problem where it's just like, I, who am I? And so I had to be broken down

and then take a year and a half to build myself up again, to really be like, that's me, this, these are my feelings. And, you know, being really aware of what I was feeling and what they were feeling and, you know, having this awareness, but it took me being broken down emotionally to nothing. So, you know, not everybody, like, I don't go into relationships expecting people to have that because I don't want people to have experienced that. But, you know, I can't go into a relationship expecting that people know what they need to do or how they can communicate or, you know, whatever. So I, you know, I used I tried to be patient. I tried to use different ways to communicate with Ian. I tried to, you know, wait until certain times like I I knew that,

you know, there was a way that we could work this out. It just figuring out how. Yeah. It's almost, it's such bullshit that we have to like, like figure out when the right time is and stuff like that, you know, but it's so human too, because it's like, we want the best conditions to have the talk and all these things. Um, I want to switch gears and talk about your health over the past year. It's been a tumultuous year for you, 13 surgeries.

I mean, I think we've all in some ways felt that journey along with you. And I know you're going through some stuff right now as well. I'd like for you to talk about it and then also talk about how that affected your overall relationship. This would be the point where I'd probably cry. But, oh, God. No, no, no. No, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no.

Makeup. We also, like, you know, if it's more, I mean, we talk about whatever you want to talk about. We don't have to talk about it if you don't want to. Mostly, like, the last, like, I want to say, like, last six months, I really, like, spent the time feeling the effects of my health and the way it affected my um my relationship with Ian what I went through was very hard and what what a significant other of someone who's going through what I went through is very hard and it was hard on both of us and um but uh to you know, summarize, I had to get that out of the way. To summarize, like, I've always had issues with cancer. I was first diagnosed when I was 18. I've been in and out of remission, like, now at this point, I don't even know, like six times. All uterine cancer or, you know, cervical cancer. And, you know, I at the beginning of the relationship, like the good first half of the relationship, nothing really went wrong.

Like I was doing OK health wise. I had like, you know, IBS because of, you know, like stress and stuff like that. But nothing that was too I had a few scares, but nothing that was too, you know, destructive to me and my emotional state. And then I had this, like, it was the day of the eclipse, the solar eclipse. And I went, I had a doctor's appointment where I was supposed to go in and, you know, just normal well woman's visit or whatever and um i had been having some issues and so you know we did this uh ultrasound and they found like a really large mass on my on my ovary and like you know you know getting biopsies on ovary masses is really hard so they try to do as many tests as they can but i just had this really bad feeling about it from that point on

like well even before i went to the appointment i I was telling Ian in the morning, I was like, something's wrong. Like I, something's going to happen. And I just, my intuition was telling me like something's wrong with my body. And then I went in for that and it turns out that that wasn't actually the issue. Um, I had, uh, because of all the issues that I've been having, all the cancer, the family history. And I also have, uh, this condition called Lynch syndrome, which is...

You didn't find out about Lynch syndrome until when? Well, at that point, I'd actually known. Okay. But I just didn't know exactly what it meant. The doctor who had prescribed it, you know, diagnosed it, you know, I immediately was like, Hey, can we consider hysterectomies? Because I've been on the no kids mindset for a good portion of my life. And, you know, like I, I don't think, and then she was like, no. And, you know, like, so,

you know, I went to a genetic counselor who was like, you know, your best, the best thing that you can do to guarantee that you don't get cancer is have a hysterectomy. And if you don't want to have kids, you know, like I will support that and help you find a doctor. And he did. And so I had a, at the beginning of January, I had a hysterectomy and it was prophylactic at the time. And then they did the pathology afterwards and found what i had been fearing you know like they fortunately we had taken it all out and you know so the hysterectomy is what oh sorry a hysterectomy is when they take um there's different types of hysterectomies there's one where they take just the uterus but no cervix there's one where they take the uterus and the cervix there's

one where they take you know like there i had what is called a hysterectomy and salpingectomy, where they took my uterus, or a total hysterectomy and salpingectomy, where they took my uterus, my fallopian tubes, and my cervix. And because all of those parts are part of the, you know, the uterus. And so, that's where my cancer had previously been and where my cancer risk was most because you're more likely to get cancer if you've had cancer. And we had a game plan for what we would do if, you know, after the hysterectomy, you know, 10 years later, we'll take out the ovaries to reduce your ovarian risk. Because with Lynch syndrome, I have, you know, ovarian risk, uterine risk, colon risk, and stomach risk, and neurological risk.

And, yeah, it's like 27 different types of cancer I'm at risk for. And so we had this game plan, and the game plan was completely shot because you know i'll try to do best tldr i can do for you know a year of hospital stays and surgeries um so i had a um hysterectomy and then i started having abdominal pain in like july and i thought it was uh you know my appendix so and took me to the hospital and they told me that I had cancer and because I had a mass on my ovary. And so and that was what they left it at. And then I left. I was in the most pain I've ever been in my entire life.

I've reached my 10. Yeah. Yeah. That was not that was not lovely to witness. And I'm sorry for that. But after after that whole debacle, like I was misdiagnosed at one hospital. I transferred to another hospital where my doctor was like, you just had a torsed ovary because of a cyst. And they didn't notice that?

Oh, like she was super mad. So basically what that means is her ovary got twisted. Yeah. And it cut off blood flow. So the first hospital really goofed that one up. Yeah. And because of that, your ovaryary one ovary died yep i had a an ovary that died inside of me and was starting to you know i developed a fever and was throwing

up because it was you know dead inside of me and rotting and i'm sorry if that's gross but you had a zombie over yeah i had a zombie ovary um and then from that point on, it was, it was, I didn't trust my stomach. I had abdominal pain that was similar. It always felt like gas. I'd always be like, I'll just wait until it passes, you know. But every time I felt that pain, my ovary would twist. Like my left ovary twisted like, what, six times, five or six times. I had surgeries to repair it and then eventually in

the span of a week I had the surgery to repair it one last time and then what they did was they put it on the front side of my abdomen which basically if I banged up against the sharp corner of a table I would just rupture my ovary you know like, like they were trying all they could, but then they were like, okay, you know what? How do you feel about menopause? So you mentioned for the first six months, your health was fine. It was probably for the first year. Yeah. Year and a half.

First year and a half. First year and a half. So you're committed to this relationship. You've been in this relationship for a year and a half. Things start to happen. How does that make you feel ian like how does that take a toll on you because you're not expecting this and in in so many ways when we started a relationship it's like that is the last thing you think that you're signing up for yeah i mean i think one of the one of the signs for me that i felt like you was a real, real relationship where there was real, real feelings was the fact that Pam told me that she had a risk of cancer and that she had a history of cancer before we even started legitimately dating.

So that was sort of my out. That was like, here's the door. If you're not about this, like, you know, Pam was like straight up. She's like, you know, you might have to live with the fact that I might die at an early age. And, and it didn't really bother me. I mean, obviously the thought of her dying, the thought of her dying greatly bothered me but it didn't scare me away right you're like i can take this on yeah it didn't didn't yeah that didn't to me that wasn't a reason to end things yeah um and at that time pam hadn't told anybody really about about her it was my cancer you literally literally told your past boyfriend, like whoever you were in a relationship with when you were going through that,

but you didn't tell your parents. Didn't tell my parents. You didn't tell anybody. Nobody on the internet knew. Like a couple friends knew, and you told me. And that kind of openness really created this sort of connection between us, I feel. Well, and also, too, like, you were talking about when I told you about that and you thought about, like, there's a chance that this could happen.

There's this thing where you try to imagine scenarios. Like, you try to imagine your significant other dying. And, like, the way that it plays out in your head is never how it's going to play out in real life. would because, you know, a good portion of the reason that I, you know, ended the relationship is because I couldn't deal with someone not being emotionally supportive for me while I was in the hospital. Like, I mean, I don't want to go into detail because, you know, I still believe that you're a very good person. But, you know, at the time, it was just I wasn't as important. And that's what it felt like. Yeah, That was, that was the thing. I think the, and we can, we can either get to that now or we can get to that later. But I mean, the, the sort of straw, the straw that broke the camel's back was I was set to go, um, on a business trip. Uh, and it was,

I was only going to be gone for two three days the night before i left uh you started feeling abdominal pain and we had been through this before and you know i was always there at the hospital as much as i could be and it was at this point it kind of it was almost routine right yeah and so so it's like okay no problem I'm going to go on this trip and, you know, whatever will happen will happen. It's probably the same exact thing as it was before. And I'll be right back and I'll be there and I'll be there for you. But you clearly had different needs for, you know, how you see a relationship being and how you see the person being there for you and i wasn't there for you as much as you needed me to be in those situations

do you think that um one of the reasons that you weren't there as much is because it bothered you like the pain and the the suffering like bothered you so much to the point that you couldn't tolerate being or not tolerate but it just you were uncomfortable being around when it was happening because it hurt so much or is it like one of those i i really i haven't really broken down exactly why you weren't there you know like what do you i mean maybe you don't have something to explain that with, but just any insight would. I think, like I said, it just, it, it became almost like a routine. Like, you know, we had, we had been through it before. It didn't seem like it was anything new. So we kind of knew what the outcome would be if we figured it was another torsion and it was right. what ended up happening is that was that was the final that was the final one right uh no no there's one more yeah that's right there's one more after so

yeah there's another torsion um i was out on my trip and then and then you know i came back i had to deal with some stuff at the office and and you know and ryan ryan who's who's our writers sitting behind the camera uh was there was there that day uh and he was like he's like you good like you you like pam's in the hospital you should probably go go see her i was like i was like yeah yeah yeah i'm i'm gonna i'm gonna get over there like'm going to get over there. Like, I just, you know, I need to, I need to finish this. And then, and then I'm going to go and the hospital's like, I mean, it was two miles away from the office. So it sounds like you run to your defense mechanism, which is running to work because that, that, that's the thing that makes sense for you. It's almost like you're, it's like your safe place and it's a way to to run away from things which i totally get i think it's one of the reasons why

my schedule is like packed to the brim because it's like that's how i know that my life is like like good like you know like it it gives you some sort of security to know that it's there um and from the outside that's what it sounds like because having to deal with it's there. And from the outside, that's what it sounds like because having to deal with it is just so difficult. And I think also, like, I was just, I'm very much an optimist, and I was always an optimist in our relationship whenever she was, you know, worried about

whatever pain you were feeling, Pam. I was always just like, ah, we don't know. We don't know until the doctors tell us. And you're like, be prepared for a loss. I could get this and I could be gone in a year or six months. Or one time you were diagnosed and they said you had a few months to live. So you're- Not well.

Oh, well, I mean, technically at the ER, kind of, but the one that kind of, it was way before our relationship. Yeah, it was way before our relationship. So, I mean, your sort of outlook on everything is very different from mine. You've obviously... I'd say I was a realist for my life, not everybody's lives. Once you've had a life of just stuff is what I'm going to call it, you become very aware that the good that you have is sometimes only fleeting and that bad stuff is around the corner.

So maybe sort of a pessimist, but I'm still a very positive person. It's so interesting because from the outside, it really is like you guys are like, reading two different books, because I can totally see it. Like from Pam's perspective, like you've been through all this stuff, you know how hard it can be. And you see it from like a realist point of view. And, and so much emotion comes from that. And you're're like you just almost want to like you want to be like romantic almost where it's like this could be the last one you know like like i just want to feel all those things and then i can totally understand your perspective of just like no no like it maybe it's not that bad like let's keep our head up and uh keep things positive but

to you it feels like you're not being validated where it's like you're going through all this stuff sorry yeah pam doesn't feel validated in what she's going through when ian is being the best person he knows he could be by just being optimistic and it's like it's interesting because we grew up with the saying like treat others the way you want to be treated but i think as we grow older we have to with the saying, like, treat others the way you want to be treated. But I think as we grow older, we have to really understand that you have to treat the other person how they want to be treated. And it's like you guys were speaking your own languages as opposed to speaking each other's languages. That's very astute, Mari.

Damn, we're getting deep in here, you guys. Are you ready? That's really good. Yeah. Validation is important, I think, as human beings go. And I can't point to an exact thing that has happened in my relationship. But, like, I know that feeling of being like, no, this is what I'm going through. What you're saying is too positive for me right now. It's like, get on my level at the moment. And I think that, you know, for you,

you were just doing the best you can for what you know. Right. And that's difficult to be like, well, okay, now I got to learn another language. What's the language that you're dealing with over here? So, interesting. I mean, I think that's probably, you know, my, yeah, that totally falls in line with what I think was sort of my biggest failing was I can never get on the same level.

And I can never, I don't know, I can never just that i was in my sort of like mental state worked for me so i never i never felt like i was personally struggling you know mentally um pam would always suggest like you know we we should maybe do therapy. Like, you know, you suggested couples therapy. Well, you suggested therapy. Yeah. I'm a firm believer in the fact that if you've never done therapy before, do not do couples therapy with your significant other. I mean, obviously, people can make their own decisions, but I've only heard bad stories and also too if if like for instance if ian and i had gone to couples therapy and i'm the one primarily having the the emotional

like pain um then it would feel like we need to analyze you know why that's happening and what ian's doing and then it would turn into like a you know you know and i didn't want it to feel like ian was being attacked by two people one of which he doesn't even know so um you know, and I didn't want it to feel like Ian was being attacked by two people, one of which he doesn't even know. So, you know, I wanted him to kind of figure out his own, like, understanding of how to communicate and what he needs so that he could tell me that. Because, you know, like, it was really hard to communicate with each other because I'm front and understanding and trying to like do my best to uh put myself in his shoes but you know ian's ian's um you know like

he he was like i'm fine you know that we're good i'm fine you know like and you know i um i i understand for the most part why that why that happened i mean he said that you know, I understand for the most part why that happened. I mean, he said that, you know, work was really important. And so when our relationship was in jeopardy, it wasn't as much of a motivator, you know. Like I wasn't as up there as some other things, you know. So, you know, I think that we just never learned how to communicate with each other because of that. Yeah. I think that's probably where I'm the biggest hypocrite is in the fact that I'm a huge advocate for therapy. And I'm, and I,

and I tell people, I'm like, Hey man, like everyone should do it. Like there's no harm. You don't have to be like, you know, you don't have to be like you know you don't have to be like suicidal or think you have a problem to go to therapy and yet i have never personally made a concerted effort to seek therapy i keep saying i'm going to i keep making excuses do you know why you haven't gone like is's not on the front of my mind. I don't know. It's interesting. And Pam tried.

And obviously, you can't force someone else to go to therapy. For sure. They have to want it. And I'm like, man, what kind of crazy cataclysmic kind of event is going to have to happen to make me seek it out? And maybe it's this podcast maybe we'll see we'll see and and it's not just like with therapy it wasn't like he would make excuses or put it off like ian if it wasn't work or if it wasn't home you know he didn't go to the dentist for a while until i helped go to make him go to the dentist he didn't go to the doctor for a while

he didn't go see a dermatologist until, you know. My freaking skin on my hands are falling off. Are you not going to the dermatologist? I got to go again. Oh, my God. I mean, it's a little better, but, you know, it's coming back. It's like eczema or something. Who knows?

So that's kind of like, that's just how Ian's always operated. So therapy is just another leg of that. So you're saying we just need Talkspace to sponsor this pod. I don't know about, is it Talkspace or BetterHelp that got all the. BetterHelp. BetterHelp, yeah. Yeah. Talkspace, hit us up.

No, it's interesting. I think, you know, and maybe you just need to dig deeper as to why you don't want to go. And maybe it's as simple as you just don't want to because it's not, you know, affecting your every single day life. Or maybe it's something deeper and there's something, you know, like you don't want to get into what's in there. Or, you know, you just don't want to deal with having to have to dig deep into weird things because your day-to-day life is fine you know like you're you like your day-to-day life you exist and you're fine like it doesn't bother you so maybe that's why you don't want to go um he's a bachelor in a boyfriend's body it's it's an interesting yeah topic it's that kind of thing where it's just like it doesn't like things are like on the outside, everything's going fine.

So it's like I don't have this sort of like driver where something's like eating away at me that I need to like do it now. I think it's that kind of thing where like I don't really do things until it's like an absolute imperative. Until your skin's falling off yeah exactly until you can see the bones on my fingers which we can it's gross yeah yeah right i'm glad we're talking about this yeah we need to talk about your hands they're skeletons oh no well and i also too like i you know i i didn't want this to seem like, you know, like, you know, stuff was going wrong with Ian and like it's all on Ian, which was at times the mindset that I had. But I also I know that that a good portion of our relationship was weighed down by, you know, although he said that, you know, like my past didn't really affect me as much. And I was the person I am in spite of it.

But when behind closed doors with the person that, you know, is an extension of me, which is how I see relationships, like that's when, you know, like I am me, you know, you get to see every aspect of me. And so he got to see the part of me that is crazy stressed about my family. And my family is, you know, like a good source of the drama that has taken over a lot of my life. And that was a lot. And I knew it was at times very strenuous for him. I mean like I go I've gone through what I've gone through my entire life and that's kind of like my my reality but to to throw it at him like that was you know and sometimes I feel like um I was unloading my baggage on him too much like it I know that it was um you know a sore spot for you um and I didn't want it to seem like, you know, oh, it's, it's all like, there's a good portion of it. That was me. Like, I, I, I'm an emotional, like,

I'm an emotionally driven person. Like I, you know, I want to, you know, have everybody feel good. And I want everybody to be happy. And I want to like be positive. But I, you know, I still have those tough conversations. And when the tough conversations need to happen, they happen. And unfortunately, sometimes I would think tough conversations needed to happen in regards to my family and how it affected me. But they didn't really need to happen, you know, like. But at the same time, although I know that my relationship with my my mom was was one of the like the the needles that was poking um but Ian was one of the ones actually he was the one that one helped me talk about um like he helped me realize that talking about cancer my cancer helps people and then two he

made me realize that I don't have to deal with my mom. You know, like he, and maybe it was just like, ah, stop talking about it. But at the same time. No, it was physically affecting you. Yeah. Your relationship with your family was physically affecting you and mentally. Yeah. And obviously seeing you hurt like that was was not good and i was like there has to be a better way yeah so there there was a while

when when you know you didn't talk to your family and and you know you're you're back to talking with them and things very very sporadically and obviously we can cut whatever this out that you want but no no no this is all fine but you know i said well if this is affecting you so much and it's negative and just don't don't talk to them like yeah and obviously that that hurts and i think that people should always talk to their parents but if if it's not coming from a place of love and it's only hurting you, then you just need to stop. Yeah. And you got better. Yeah, I did.

I got really good. I was super healthy for a while. She stressed you out so much that you were having physical. Yeah. Yeah. It's a very hard conversation to have about divorcing people in your life, and sometimes you have to. Tim Ferriss has a really good chapter in a four-hour work week. But yeah, like the people closest to you, you rely on those people.

And it's almost like you feel like they have a responsibility to be your rock, especially your family and it's a hard truth to figure out in your adult life that your family your parents are still just kids yeah who had kids yeah and maybe they haven't worked out their stuff yet maybe you know they'll never go to therapy maybe they'll never you know figure out the small things that bother them um but it's it's a hard truth and you know we all go about it differently but it's important to to figure it out for yourself. Yeah. And in regards to your cancer and you not telling anyone, for me I felt that it would be healthy for you to talk about it,

and also your story was so incredible for me that I felt like people needed to hear about it. I felt like it would help a lot of people. And I feel like it has. Yeah. Yeah, it was. And that's why, you know, I've always, like, loved talking to you about things because you have such a different but neutral perspective. You always have an idea that for the most part helps everybody involved or, you know, I've always felt really comfortable talking to you about things. So when

you were like, you know what, I think you should consider this. And I was just like, yeah, you're right. Like I've been so closed off to it because I've been set in my own ways that I haven't opened my mind to, you know, something like that. Because, you know, a part of me was like, I just feel like I'm, you know, being that victimized person where I'm like, I had a hard life. You know, like I don't want to be that person. And in the way that I've chosen to do it with, you know, Ian supporting me the entire way was very helpful to people. And that's something that I've always appreciated. I remember your videos. You know, you came out with it and you, you know, encouraged people to check themselves out and make sure you go to the doctor. And, you know, if you feel anything, go.

And there were so many comments of like, thank you, Pam, I think I'm going to go to my doctor or thank you, Pam, I went to my doctor., uh, you know, this is, this has been preventative for something bigger. So yeah, I think that's something really great that you encouraged. Yeah. But I also, I mean, I also understood why you didn't want to do it. You didn't want to be, have that be your identity, the girl, the girl with cancer. Yeah. Cause you wanted to be, you wanted to be known and appreciated for your talents not for this sort of burden yeah so i totally understood that but i'm glad that you chose to you know be open about it me too i think like the biggest takeaway for me like just as also you know in the conversation but but as a listener is that nothing

is black and white. And I think one of us said that at the very beginning, it's just like, you guys see photos, videos, whatever of relationships, but you don't see the, you know, the nights where you're having incredible conversations. You're not seeing the nights where there's tears and misunderstandings and, you know, the days in the hospital and the days that you're not in the hospital. And it's like you don't see all of it. And I think it's important to remember for all of us seeing relationships happen online that it's just a needle size. It's a pinhole size display of what the whole thing is. So don't get so caught up in what you see in other people, I guess.

Yeah. You know, experience things for yourself and know that it's not perfect. Yeah. Yeah. That's what relationships are. It's kind of like those girls that go to weddings and like, how come we're not married? And it's like, that's not where we're at, you know? You know, like there's the acclimation to, or I mean the inclination to compare your relationship like,

oh, well, so-and-so does this and so-and-so does this and this is what they, they go to these parties and they do this and it's just like, yeah, but they're not in this relationship. So it's the, you have to be able to analyze the way that you work with somebody. And also a big part of that is recognizing red flags, like recognizing signs that you shouldn't proceed.

You shouldn't let them do that. Like balance, like there's no balance of, you know, back. Because sometimes, sometimes, Mara, you might have a really bad day. And, you know, maybe Pete had a bad day too. But in his head, he was like, it's not as bad. I'm going to put that away and i'm gonna take care of you like sometimes the the balance is is a little wonky but there's always it's it's still balanced you know like it it comes back over and it comes from experience though and so many mistakes you gotta make so many mistakes and then once those you know

the good still outweighs all of those mistakes that's when you're like that's that's when you keep proceeding yeah right but it's when the negatives outweigh the positives that you're like throwing that towel yeah um i wanted to touch on something oh i wanted to ask you know i feel like like you mentioned we've kind of thrown out the rule book of like start dating someone get married have, watch them grow up and then retire and die. Like that rulebook was so set in place for so many decades. Yeah. Like until now, like that rulebook is gone.

What is the biggest misconception of relationships that that you guys have kind of like broken the barrier of? Or I think the fact that you guys are kind of like broken the barrier of? I think the fact that you guys are friends after a relationship is still. That's a big one. That's a big one. Like people can't be friends. It has to be this emotional thing. To me, I think I said it in the other podcast,

or maybe I just said it in person. But to me, it is very weird that you could share everything with somebody. You share the deepest, darkest parts of your mind with somebody, share your body with them. Only if you're married, though. No. But you share everything with this person, and then you break up, and then you have to become mortal enemies with them.

And I'm not saying that everybody could be friends with their ex. And it's probably unhealthy to think that as well, like that you're going to be friends with your ex. But the way that things ended for us and the way that things ended with my last long-term relationship ended in a nice way you know there there weren't you know really hurt feelings nobody was was screwed over yeah it was just like hey is this working out no okay are there sort of unreconcilable differences. Yes. All right. Well, then maybe let's end this. Yeah.

Obviously, you know, our relationship didn't end that. It wasn't that formal. Oh. I cried a little bit more than that. I cried like a little bitch. No, I still don't think you did. I did the kind of crying where your voice gets like. Well, okay.

That was fun. We broke up in the hospital. In the hospital while I was still in the hospital. I was just, never mind. But, sorry. But, I mean, the great, what I really, really appreciated about our breakup is, you know, well, you said, let's go on, let's go on a break. And I said, well, I don't believe in breaks. So we should probably just end it. And then maybe down the road, maybe down the road in the future, you know, we'll be walking

down the street, run into each other. Hey, you want to give us another go? Sure. But for now, let's, let's just end it. If you feel like we need to go on a break, let's just end it. Yeah. And then it wasn't like, I just like walked out of the hospital room. We talked for like an hour and a half. Yeah. It felt like a long,

long time. I mean, we were talking real fast. Yeah. You know, you had places to be. Um, but I felt like that was, that was so nice to be able to to like you know say like okay this is

this is over for now but let's talk about it yeah and being able to talk and then and then when you went into the hospital the next time that's when you had your second ovary removed so that was the end of you know all the lady bits yeah um and then i visited you in the hospital a few times yeah um stayed i think i stayed the night with you one night yeah um and that gave us an opportunity to like really sort of like yeah break down like what you know what the relationship was like we had also made it past the emotionally traumatic, like, oh God, it's happening now, and what do I do, and how do I wake up? And we had had some time to ourselves so we could really look at the relationship objectively.

And I don't necessarily think that people who break up should revisit and be like, what did we do wrong? But one of the reasons that I think that Ian and I are able to be such good friends after the breakup is because despite the fact that although we didn't agree on things, we've had a profound amount of respect for each other. We don't necessarily need to agree, but we understand. Like, I don't't know or i mean in my head i i wouldn't operate the same way that ian would in some ways but i understand i understand him i understand why he made the decisions and i respect that you know like i it's the respect that made it so that you know like ultimately i just you know we want each other to be happy. And if it wasn't happening together, we have to, you know, do the appropriate steps.

And we've had respect and understanding of each other the whole way. And we can cut this part out if you're not comfortable with it. But, you know, and then you had told me that you were with somebody else. Yeah. And it's that kind of thing where like, yeah, this hurts me a little bit. Yeah. But if they can give you something that I wasn't giving, and if they can sort of emotionally fulfill you in a way that I couldn't,

then why should I feel hurt? You know, if you're able to find somebody that better couldn't, then why should I feel hurt? You know, if you're able to find somebody that better suits you, like, yeah, it's like sad for me, but also like, that's really selfish of me to be angry about it, you know what I mean? So. Well, I mean, the way that you worded it, the way that you talked to me about it is just that, you know, like a good portion of our lives, like at least like you know trying to imagine instead of you

it being someone else like that's that's a real pain like you don't you don't have to like you know make excuse yourself for feeling that i mean it's it's yeah you have emotions you have feelings and and you know i've i i've appreciated the fact that you were very upfront with like, hey, I'm not necessarily not okay with the relationship. But you're like, I, you know, I need some time, you know, like, and I was absolutely. Yeah, I totally understand. I mean, definitely, like, it definitely felt weird. And it hurt. But at the same time, I can also rationalize with the fact that, like, it's not like you're my property.

Yeah. time i can also rationalize with the fact that like it's not like you're my property yeah it's like you're you're a completely separate human being with your own you know needs and wants and and you know if if there's somebody else that's that's better suited why should i be angry i think it goes back to this preconceived notion of like what we think relationships are and like i i do think that we grew up with this notion that it's like there's one soulmate in the world for you and you'll love one time. Yeah, that's a big old pile of bull.

It is. You know, I think as humans, we have the capacity to love so much. And like, and I think it's, at least in my life, I think it's really, really important for me to get it out there that it's okay to continue loving people. You know, and it's like, it's okay to love that portion of my life, I think it's really, really important for me to get it out there that it's okay to continue loving people. You know, it's like it's okay to love that portion of your life, those, you know, two years of your life or eight years of your life or whatever it is.

You know, as you move forward into future relationships, it's still okay to have that capacity of love for other people. Absolutely. Also, if you're young, like you grow up, you become a different person. Yeah. Like it's it's completely rational to say you you started dating somebody when you were 20 and you're 25 and you've become different people and you're not in love with that person anymore. Yeah. That's fine. Yeah. Understandable. You could be a completely different person and you don't have to make excuses for why you feel differently. Yeah. I buy into the notion that people have multiple soulmates because the person that I was 10 years ago

was completely different. I would probably, we probably would not have even started dating because of the person that I was. And I believe that the people that I was with and committed to at those times in my life were my soulmate at the time. You know, like I, you know, things got along really well. And then I shifted as a person and they didn't shift in the same direction and couldn't continue. And that's okay. You know, like you should never have to try to prevent yourself from changing or try to change

yourself in a extreme way to benefit a relationship because ultimately what you want at the end of the day is to be happy and fulfilled and to know that, you know, you did it for you and you didn't do it for somebody else. You know, like you want to at the end of the day, you just want to be happy, you know. And if someone makes you happy, good. But if someone doesn't make you happy, then not good you know but also say you know your high school sweethearts you get married you have a couple kids and you you know you have certain differences but you still make it work yeah that's also fine yeah you can be happy and not uh you can be happy in a relationship but not be happy all the time you know like you can be angry at somebody but still love them and feel super

happy with them you know like yeah throw out the rule book yep i feel like we're like standing on uh like desks in a school room and we're like ripping out pages out of a textbook yeah carpe diem yeah oh captain my captain um What have you learned from your relationship together that you know you'll, you know, bring with you into the future, into future relationships, into future, you know, into your future? Oh, I mean, for me, I feel like Ariana Grande said it best, you know, thank you next. You know, one taught me love, one taught me patience. I was hoping it was something about a small barbecue. I was wondering why you were like, I thank you next. Well, because I was thinking like there's a couple like real lines in there.

I'm like, yeah, I completely relate to that. You almost yossed. Yeah. I took, you know, I learned a lot of really great things from my last relationship. And I don't regret the time that I spent in that relationship. And I don't regret the time that I spent in my relationship with Pam. I became a better person because of it, I feel. And I'm going to take what I learned and then apply that to the next person.

Maybe I'll never find somebody. That's also fine. You have this podcast. Yeah, exactly. This microphone is my wife. Married to work. But it sounds like you're taking the positives, and I think that's a really great message.

I mean, he's always been an optimist. Yeah, there you go. I think it's a hard thing for people to do if you're not thinking about it. It's a perspective change of it because, you know, I had a level of patience that, you know, just kept on going. And so I had the time to really figure out Ian. Like I, we've joked before that I know Ian better than he knows himself. It's probably true. She also knows my parents better than I know them. But, you know, he gave me an understanding and respect of understanding the mindset and the history and the complete makeup of a person, you know? Like, I said it at the beginning of the relationship where, you know, like, I don't hate people that my significant other has dated.

I don't hate the things that they've done because those things brought them to me. Like the person that Ian was when we were dating was a culmination of all those experiences, good and bad. And when I said it, I felt it, but I didn't truly like I didn't have a firm knowledge of it. And now I feel I do. Like I am a lot more patient with certain people in my life and a lot more understanding to try to understand their perspective instead of being stuck in my own head. You know, like they have their story and I should listen to it a lot more. All right. Wise words. they have their story and I should listen to it a lot more. All right. Wise words.

What do you guys miss about each other? I know you guys still see each other and you guys talk still, but are there certain things that you guys miss? One of the things that I miss but I love about Ian is he gives me my independence. You know, like he doesn't always want to be in my arm and he doesn't always need to be involved with what I'm doing. And not that that's a bad thing, but I just got so used to the incredible independence that he gave me that, you know, when confronted with, you know, any sort of attachment, I'm like, oh, what are you doing? No, he's always had, we've always had a level of respect for each other. And, you know, I feel that, you know, sometimes that respect is once in a lifetime.

Respect before a relationship, in a relationship, and after a relationship. That is very unique. And, you know, he's given me respect and independence in all aspects of our relationship. And, and, you know, like, I miss the romantic side of, you know, like, being able to love someone but have my own space, you know, like, is that do you understand? Absolutely. Okay. No, I think it's so counterintuitive what to what women think we want, right? Like, we we think like we want somebody to clamor over us and ask where we are every second. And it's like, oh no, that's like Edward Cullen,

like stalker-ish, you know? And it's like, once we have a taste of like having our independence and having our partner be like, no, I trust you, like go out there and do it. Like I'll text you in six hours. Like I hope you. Like, go out there and do it. Like, I'll text you in six hours. Like, I hope you have a dope day. It continues us on our journey on our own parallel to our partner, as opposed to having to have to merge into one lane. I think that's fantastic.

I also think that Ian, out of everybody that I've ever dated or ever even known has an incredible, like sturdy trust. Like he never distrusted me. He never got jealous. He never, like he was, you know, like, and I think it was one of the things that he said early on where it was just like, Hey, if you're going to leave me, you're going to leave me. You know, if you want someone else, you're going to go get them. But, but he trusted me, you know, and, and I i oh man i've never had that level of trust before and i probably won't have it ever again you know sorry i ruined you yeah i mean the i mean to me trust was the most important thing because there was there was a there was less trust in my last relationship and that was and that was a big problem.

If you don't have 100% trust on the person you're with, I don't see it working out. I just don't. Yeah. So I guess the thing that I'm, what do I miss most about Pam? Well, I mean, I hope I am fortunate enough to find another person that is as loving and understanding and patient as you are.

Deal. And also, too, I probably like, you know, I was like his personal assistant. Yeah, I was really bad. I was really bad at getting the mail. I let it pile up. And it's piling up right now, actually, now that I think about it. I got to come over and pick up my mail anyways. That's true.

Yeah, you still get some things in my house. Well, before we wrap up, I have one more question. Okay. And this is pointed to Ian. Ian, what was a harder breakup? You and Pam or you and Anthony? Oh. Oh.

Come on. Don't do me like that. Press the buttons. Press the buttons. I don't think I cried. Well, I didn't cry with Anthony leaving. Because Anthony and I, you know, we knew what had to happen it was coming yeah it was coming yeah and and with with pam and i like sure yeah there was like there was like some something feelings like maybe this maybe this won't last maybe but i was always very optimistic about our relationship so when she brought up like i think we should go on a break i was like ah uh each one's different yeah yeah so is that your answer that each one

is different yeah i didn't cry i didn't cry with with anthony i don't think i did anthony got a little teary in our video when we when we left yeah well i think Well, I think from my perspective, each breakaway, you learned some very valuable lessons and you became a better person for it instead of letting it. Like, I had the pleasure and honor to watch Ian go through some of the toughest things in his life. Not to say that it was an honor to watch him suffer but i i watched him grow i watched him japanese of you i watched him grow i watched him make some really hard decisions and then you know work towards that you know like i i was i i'd come into the office and i'd just be super proud to see him playing boss man and you know like uh he he worked really hard and then like seeing after we break up he's i do think that he's changed for for the better and he's really

taking the lessons hard so you know each one's different but i mean i think you've handled them both with just an amazing amount of strength and grace and you're you're really good at it thank you i mean i haven't torched this place yet so there's that still rising from the ashes yeah you can't torch it while it's rising it's not science um yeah well pam thank you so much for coming on yeah i feel like this went really well mari you, you're wonderful. I love you guys. I know, we're going to need a big long hug after this.

Yeah. And thank you guys for riding through this journey with us. Wow. Oh man. Gosh dang. How was your first therapy session?

Yeah, for real. This honestly did feel, this honestly did feel like a therapy session. Not that I would know what that's like. I feel better. Good. How do you guys feel? I feel like a therapy session, not that I would know what that's like. Do you feel better? I feel better.

Good. How do you guys feel? I feel really good. Yeah. I just feel like it's, I don't know. I hope the audience gets a lot out of it where it's just like there's a lot more than what you see out there. And that's good. It's just the truth.

And that's okay. That's all right. That's all we do here. We just drop the truth because the truth feels the best. Heck yeah. Yep. Well, thank you guys so much for watching.

Uh, if you're not yet subscribed on the Smoshcast YouTube, I highly suggest you do that. So you could see, you could actually see the tears. Um, and, uh,

if you, I also just, uh, subscribe on the podcast apps to hear the audio two days before the video. Guys, these awesome Smosh shirts and Smosh water bottles and awesome tie-dye sweatshirts. Tidy. Very tidy. On Smosh.store.

Thank you guys so much. If you're on YouTube, hit that bell button. Punch it. Thank you again, guys. This was insane. thank you guys so much if you're on YouTube hit that bell button punch it thank you again guys this was insane yeah I had a good time

we're a family I need a fucking nap now bye bye