So... Alright - New Shoes, Mall Walking, and Emails

Episode Date: June 3, 2025

Geoff talks about a song, talks about a mall, and talks about things you talk about in email. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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It just motivated me and made me mentally clear for the entire rest of the day. And I got so much more done when I do that now. But with this shitty weather, I haven't wanted to ride my bike in the mud. So today I decided to visit an old favorite. I decided to mall walk. Got up, drove out there before the stores opened, walked around the mall for about an hour, was there for about a half hour before they opened

and then maybe a half hour after. So I got to see the bustling morning activity and then the burst of all the doors rolling up and the people running in, except none of that really happened today. In the interest of being fully honest with you all, if the mall is back, it wasn't showing it today. Dead ass, empty ass, uninteresting,

no vibes mall this morning. I hate to say it, but if I'm gonna come on podcasts and talk about how great the mall is, back the mall is I got to be honest With you when I go to the mall and it's the opposite of that now Listen, it's a Wednesday morning in late May in Austin, Texas And I'm sure everybody in Texas has something better to do than be at the mall at 9 a.m. When I'm there, but it was definitely better than I've seen it in a while and I don't know how the mall's looking in your neck of the woods, but I'm just I'm clocking it.

I'm clocking it as a mall fan and a mall man. You know, I got to keep tabs on the health of my mall. I love those those mall walks or the bike ride in the morning because it usually gives me time to, I don't know, just a brainstorm. Let my mind wander, come up with ideas. But I gotta say, today felt like if physical activity tends to help inspire creativity in me, usually, today was the polar opposite of that.

I felt like the, whatever the opposite of creative is, that's how I felt today. And it was kind of a bummer of a feeling really. Not that I felt bad or anything. I just felt empty. You know, you ever have that where you just like, I didn't have anything in the tank. And then, I don't know, at least usually my mind wanders off and I daydream some story that I write up in my head or invent some sort of a scenario that's going on between two people I see at the mall hanging out and then, you know, create a whole backstory or argument or adventure around them or like just nothing.

It's just one of those days where I just didn't have anything in the tank really. And then for some reason, and I'm not trying to retread on old Saul Wright territory, because I just did an episode where I walked down the street and kind of talked about how I felt like I was walking through different generations of my life, and I could almost see them play out like echoes or ghosts. But for some reason, I was in the mall. And all I could think about was this specific time that Gus and I went to EB Games in the mall to buy Madden so that we could play it at home for six days and then return it on the seventh day for store credit to get a different game. But I don't remember what other game we got or I just remember that we were very,

very excited to get Madden. I believe it was on the Dreamcast. So I would have probably been 24 or so. And I could just like, I could see it as clear as day, which really, really kind of flies in the face of time being linear. The older I get, the more I buy into the idea of quantum entanglement or time being a flat circle, you know? As I genuinely sometimes feel

So strongly present in a memory I guess I don't know if that's just the nostalgia or melancholy of old age or what but it's like it almost feels like being unstuck in time like Vonnegut said in slaughterhouse, you know, and It's I don't know. It's it's a wild and powerful feeling. And that's all I thought about walking around the mall for like an hour was just reliving a day that Gus and I went to the mall together and just trying to remember every detail that I could and being surprised at how strong a honestly unimportant memory from 26 years years ago could still be in my mind.

It was cool. That part was cool. Eventually I moved on from that and did the, uh, the what if game. Do you ever play that where you start to think about decisions you've made in your life and just like different versions of yourself and what, what you would be like if you had made different choices. You know, maybe I'd ended that relationship sooner or maybe I would have taken a stab at getting that job that I didn't think I was qualified for. Or maybe I would have moved across the country with my friend who offered it to

me or what if I didn't join the army, but instead I stayed around Mobile, Alabama and got a job at Bel Air Mall working for Camelot Music or Beat Alton Booksellers or What if I'd applied for the job to work at the comic book shop that I didn't think I was qualified enough for for some reason You know, I don't know just you just start to think about like how many different versions of yourself there have been in the past. And they are like distinctly different people. You have all these inflection points in your life where you just say, I'm going to make a change and now I'm going to do this.

I'm going to move from New Jersey to Texas and my life will be different. I won't hang out with Keith and Matt and Rich anymore. I won't hang out with Kevin and Thomas and Pat and Jamie and Ryan and all those Rich anymore. I won't hang out with Kevin and Thomas and Pat and Jamie and Ryan and all those guys anymore. I won't. What if I stayed in the army for another four years? You know, I could have, they were offering early retirement as early as like 12 and 13 years at that point.

And so I did have a conversation with myself where I was like, you know, I'm 23 years old and I'm essentially halfway to an early retirement in the military. If things keep going this route and they're trying to get rid of soldiers, I could potentially have some sort of a partial retirement by like 29 years old. And that, you know, that was something that I definitely thought through before I made that change.

And obviously I'm unbelievably happy with every decision I've made in my life because they led me to where I am right now. And I cannot genuinely imagine on a macro scale being happier than I am right now. I am head over heels in love with my wife. My daughter is thriving in college and succeeding on her own, which is brilliant to watch. I am happier than I've been in a long time professionally. And while I would appreciate a little bit more stability, you know, I've had a fair amount of stability

for most of the last 20 years, even though it didn't always feel like it. I'm living just fine without it. And most people do, you know, I don't have anything to complain about. And I'm certainly not complaining about my life. I am, I'm acutely aware of how fortunate I am, and honestly very in love with my life.

But the idle mind just picks apart at things, you know? Sometimes those, you know, I was gonna say, sometimes those exercises are fun where you just think about those, you know, like the different versions of you. Like what if I had had different motivations? What? There was a time when there was a time when I bought my first house. I was working at tele network was right around the time,

right before we started Rooster Teeth. Probably. It was probably in the ugly internet or drunk gamers days. And maybe a little bit before that even on the cusp of it. And I bought my first house and I remember how big of a deal it was for me to buy a house in general, but was for me to buy a house in general but to be able to buy a house at 23 years old I felt very grown up. I was very proud of myself. I felt very responsible, terrified of the future and the obligation I was undertaking but really excited about it and I had to make a choice. There were

two houses I wanted to get. The one in East Austin that was very close to Tele network. And then one up in Cedar Park that was like 30 percent bigger and had a giant, giant backyard with mature trees. And it was a much nicer, bigger, prettier house. But I worked in South Austin and. I didn't want to commute an hour, hour and 10 minutes every day to my eight8 an hour job. You know what I mean?

So I kind of made a decision in that moment. I thought about it quite a bit because I really was leaning towards the Cedar Park house. I had just been in Austin for back in Austin rather excited, you know, spent a lot of my military time here. I had just been back in Austin for a lot of I don't know, maybe six months or so. And so I was still kind of getting the lay of the land. I had made a bunch of friends at through work at Tele Network. Obviously, Gus and I were already pretty good friends

and in the process of trying to come up with ideas for websites and stuff. We were the seeds of all that were happening around me. And I thought about it long and hard because. The Cedar Park house was better in every way except the location. And I would think to myself, am I going to realistically, when my friends want to go to Casino El Camino downtown or to bowling down in South Austin, am I going to want to on a Friday night after I get home from work, turn around and go back in my car an hour towards town to then hang out with those guys, drink and party or whatever, and then have to get myself home in

an era before Ubers, long before Ubers, you know? Like am I shooting myself in the foot? I won't be able to drink and enjoy stuff because I'll have to be able to get home responsibly or, you know, I'll constantly be having to get a ride or what'll most likely happen or I'll try to get them to come up visit me, which is always a losing proposition when you're the one person who lives way far away and everybody else lives centrally. And so I drew the line out and I kind of envisioned how things would go and I realized that I probably wouldn't lose those friendships, but I would definitely lose a connection with them. I would lose an intensity to them. I would spend less time with those people. And I thought, well, I've only known them five, six months. You know, I will probably make

new friends in Cedar Park. It seems like a lovely place to grow, you know, to grow up, to be a grown up and have a family and have a, you know, kind of cool suburban life, which at 23 seemed like what you were supposed to do, you know? And so I thought, what will my life look like a year from now? I'll probably have different friends or all the relationship I have with these people will be reduced. And there's a really good chance I don't work there at tele network anymore, right? Just because I'm making eight bucks an hour. That's not hard to replace. I could work at a hardware store in Cedar Park for eight dollars an hour, probably.

You know, so how long am I going to want to drive in the car over two hours a day for an eight dollar an hour job? I'm probably not going to do that. I'll realistically walk away from that, get a job in Cedar Park or in North Austin and kind of. We build yet again in the space of a rebuild I'm already undertaking and that just seemed like a lot to have to go through when I was pretty happy with the people that I was forging relationships with and I was enjoying the job that I was

working at. And so I thought, you know, location, location, location, right? It makes a lot more sense to be in central Austin, close to my job and my friends and all the things I like to do. And I made that decision and thank God I did. But I wondered who that guy would have been like who the other version of me would have been had I not done that, you know, you can get lost in those thoughts going down those rabbit holes. And I used to talk about it with my therapist a lot.

He really didn't like that I did that and said that it was regressive to be thinking backwards all the time and that it wasn't productive. And I get and understand that and I know he's right, but man, it's hard not to daydream about different versions of yourself sometimes. I don't know that it's productive in any way.

He certainly didn't seem to think so, but I got caught up in that loop for quite a while walking around the mall. And I gotta say, I left the mall in kind of a funk, you know? The mall wasn't back today. I was the opposite of creative. I had zero new ideas. I felt like a fucking empty vessel.

And then I got stuck in a memory loop, remembering being 24 years old with Gus, which seems like it was yesterday, but also so impossibly far away, it might as well have been two different people. You know what I mean? And then I just spent too much time being a guy who's approaching 50, living in Cedar Park,

working at a hardware store. You know, whatever the fuck that life was supposed to be. I'm so glad I'm not living. But anyway, I digress. I'm supposed to be talking to you guys. Oh, man. Before I get into it, then driving home. I told you guys about this band Zoinks recently that I really like.

I think I made them a song of the episode. Maybe last episode. No, last episode was maybe Boilermaker. So two or three episodes ago, I think it was Joe versus the Machine maybe. So I've been listening to Zoinks nonstop since then. And a Zoinks song came on my on my playlist today. That is one of my favorite songs by them is off the album Stranger Anxiety. And it's the last song on the album.

It's one of those old DVD. And it's the last song on the album. It's one of those old DVD numbers they did where the last song on the album's 20 minutes long and it's because it's like five different songs. It's the song New Shoes, and then a B-side version of another song, and then another version of New Shoes that's kind of slower and dronier,

and then two other songs. As soon as New Shoes came on, I got so excited because I loved that song, and then I got to thinking about how I could never figure out if I liked the first version of New Shoes or the second version that starts at about nine and a half minutes into the song better. I really am into the slow, drony, rhythmic nature

of the song and of music in general that sounds like that. But there was just this tonal quality to the first version that I just, the second version doesn't have. I don't know what it is. And I was thinking about how, when I was a kid, when I was younger, when I was, I don't know, 18, 19, 20, I must've been, I must've been 18 or 19 when I saw Zoinks play at Emo's for the first time.

So I was just thinking about how this was something that always bugged me when I was a kid and I'd always go back and forth on it. And so I just listened back and forth to those two versions of the song for about a half an hour as I was driving around Austin. And on like the third play through of the song, I don't know why, but I just burst into tears. I went for the next 20 minutes of listening to that song, I just cried and I don't know why, but I just burst into tears.

I went for the next 20 minutes of listening to that song, I just cried and I don't know why. I don't know if it was just like the accumulation of all the weird old thoughts and feelings from being in my head too much at the mall or just, I don't know, I got to thinking while I was listening to the song that, here's a song I hadn't heard in years, but that I didn't stop listening to because I got sick of or got tired or any other reason. It's just sometimes

you put something down and you forget to pick it up again. You know, it happens constantly in our lives. And I realized I'm never going to get sick of this song. And it's just like, it's just a, we're not talking about Mozart, you know, here, it's just a punk song by a band from Reno, but it's so, I don't know, it matters so much to me. The music that I like, while I get is not for a lot of people and maybe silly or dumb or technically not very impressive, the heart and the truth and the honesty and the emotion that goes into the music that appeals to me means so much to me.

And I just got to thinking about how this song and this band has meant way more to me in my life than it probably should've. And it's probably never gonna stop. And then I got to thinking like, I'm never gonna get sick of this song, New Shoes, as long as I live. If I listen to this song 30 years from now,

at 80 years old, it's still gonna do this to me. It's still gonna make me feel a certain way. You know, I'm still gonna connect with it emotionally, and that made me bummed, maybe this is why I started crying a little bit, but I don't think so. That made me bummed that it just doesn't feel like one life is enough I Won't have enough time to get burned out on the stuff I already like

Throughout the course of the rest of my life I think if I didn't discover anything new from today on and I live another 50 or 60 years. I Don't think I'd get fully burned out on all the stuff I already like. And there's so much else to explore and to learn and to discover, you know, and to love and to get obsessed with. It just doesn't feel like one lifetime is enough

to be able to fully immerse yourself in all that is beautiful and interesting and... I don't know. I don't know. I digress. When does fast grocery delivery through Instacart matter most? When your famous grainy mustard potato salad isn't so famous without the grainy mustard? When the barbecue's lit, but there's nothing to grill? I was supposed to be talking about mail with you guys. on your first three orders. Service fees, exclusions and terms apply. Instacart, groceries that over deliver.

I was supposed to be talking about mail with you guys, so maybe we should get to that. I imagine I'm not going to go through all of the mail that I pulled now because I just waxed stupidly for 20 minutes or so. But we'll do another mail upset after this one if we don't get to it all. All right. First, first, first message.

Hi, Jeff. Love the shows. This is from Vivian, by the way. I have to say the best feeling in the world. If you don't remember last episode, I asked people like, what's your best feeling in the world? I realized I was playing hooky and it instantly transported me to being like 10 years, 11 years old again, and it just was like the best feeling. So Vivian says, I have to say the best feeling in the world has to be the feeling of falling asleep on a car ride

with your parents and getting carried into bed by your dad. Nothing feels more comfortable or safe than that, I'm sure. That is an excellent, excellent one, Vivian. She goes on to say, my dad passed a few years ago on my 22nd birthday, so hearing you talk about your relationship with Millie and the good times that you have and taking her to college and all that really means a lot to me.

I love to hear it. Anyway, thank you for all the awesome content and say hey to the fellas. I definitely will. And thank you for the email, Vivian, and I'm sorry for your loss. And thank you for sharing that with us because I couldn't agree more.

Feeling safe in your dad or your mom's arms when you're small is, yeah, there's nothing like it. This is from Adam. Hey, Jeff, huge fan since Saints Row 3 let's plays. That was a long time ago. Thanks for all the laughs through the years. Responding to your prompt on SoulRite this week, I'm not a huge risk taker with physical activities, but in 2020, I was living in Seattle and got into long boarding. A few times before I knew how to drag a foot to slow down, I would be going down a hill and end up going too fast to safely bail and run out. The feeling of knowing I had to lock in and

successfully riding out to safety is pretty unmatched in my experience." That's a great one, Adam. Bombing a hill and committing and pulling it out is... You're braver than I am. My days of bombing hills are far behind me, but that is an excellent one. Thank you for sharing. This one's from Efren. Hey Jeff, big fan of some of your work. And I love the way he said that. Big fan of some of your work.

Thank you so much. And I wanted to email you in the hopes that you could maybe talk about being an adult. I'm a 24 year old male and having to navigate adulthood when you were never one before is a little year old male and having to navigate adulthood when you were never one before is a little bit intimidating, at least to me. Opening CD accounts with your bank, buying a used car, moving out, trying to cook food so you don't die. Ain't that the truth? Jesus Christ. Seeing your parents get older and knowing that death approaches

closer. Maybe it's too much talk about unsullied, right? I don't know, but it's greatly appreciated if you took the time to simply read this outside the show. Oh, well I read it in the show, I apologize. Growing old, you know, it's interesting, it's an interesting one to address because I have always viewed myself as a bit of a Peter Pan in that I don't know how to grow up. And I've, you know, at times felt it was sort of a Peter Pan and that I don't know how to grow up and

I've you know at times felt it was sort of a superpower Maintaining my connection to curiosity and youth I think but I'll be honest with you. I don't know how to grow up. My dad's dead. He died when I was too young. Not as young as some, but he died before I was very grown up. And I have long lamented the loss of some sort of a paternal mentor in my life. It is a hole that I feel every single day. I get a lot of wonderful parenting from my mother.

She has the maternal side on lockdown. She's phenomenal at it. She's a great mother. She's the best mother I could ever ask for. But I really, I wish I had a dad to talk to sometimes or even a mentor in that way to talk to about some of the stuff that you're describing, you know, maybe not how do I open up an account with my bank or how do I buy a used car? There are certainly tips and tricks that the grownups

can give you to make those things easier, but more in like, how do I approach aging? How do I mature? How do I change the way I think? How do I become more responsible? How do I take control? How do I know when to trust myself? How do I know when to trust myself? How do I know when to trust other

people? Who do I trust? What North Star do I follow? That's a big one. You know? Like when you're a kid, you go in the direction your parents take you. Then you join the army, if you're me, college, somebody else, and then you go in the direction that that takes you, you know. College leads you down a very linear path. The military takes you down a very linear path. And then at some point, you're just kind of on your own. That's over. And you're left to your own devices. And they say, okay, you've got the knowledge or the training or the diploma or whatever it is now Go do the rest of your fucking life

And I don't know. I'd say there's no guidebook for that, but I think there's probably 10 million self-help books You could look to if that's your thing. I just I definitely feel Like I'm fumbling forward through life, failing forward, if you will. And I think at some point you just, at least I, I hope this is helpful to you in any way whatsoever, Efren, but I will say that at least for me,

I realized after my dad died, that I had to be my own dad and that I just had to take a step back and treat me like my dad would treat me. You know what I mean? Parent myself in that way, in that paternal way. Because once again, I get tremendous amount of love and support and parenting from my mother. But the realization that I wasn't gonna get another dad and that I wasn't gonna find some mentor in my life

in that way probably at this point in my life, and that I just had to be that for myself. And that to do that is hard. You have to look at yourself and who you are as yourself. And then you have to take a step back and evaluate yourself as a different person and be able to disassociate yourself from yourself and your own feelings and desires to take a hopefully

dispassionate or non-biased look at who you are, where you are, what you're doing in your life and try to hold yourself accountable or even just guide yourself in a way that you would think that other people do. And that is like, I don't know, like the most confusing and difficult thing, but you really don't have a choice, you know? You really don't have a choice. You gotta get up every day

and you gotta move forward in your life. And you know, when you're a kid, I feel like adults pull you along. And then when you're, once again, in the next phase, be it college or the military, there's a lot more autonomy. There's a lot more on you. You have to be a lot more self-sufficient, but the system pulls you along. It provides you an outline, right? It pulls you along that outline.

And then at some point, nobody writes another outline for you and it's on you. And that is a difficult and scary thing. And I don't know that I've done a good job of it at all in my life. And I don't know that I'd be the best person to give any advice for that. I don't even know if I've given advice here other than to say that I understand

what you're talking about and that it's a motherfucker to grow up and that I don't feel smart enough to do it. But you don't have a choice. So you just do it. And just hope you're not fucking your life up too much. You know? I don't know if any of that made sense,

but thank you for the email, Efren. Hey Jeff, this is from Kevin. Just listened to the recent episode where you talked a bit about your sobriety and just wanted to share that I felt very, very seen listening to that. I also was a severe alcoholic and have been sober for just over seven years now. Congratulations, Kevin. Holy shit. That is fucking awesome. I felt extremely lucky

that I've had some very supportive close friends and family. But as you pointed out, no one that isn't an addict can really understand the feelings we get sometimes. Like you, 90% of the time, I have no problem saying no to a drink and don't even think twice about it. But those rare occasions I can just feel like such an outsider. I've also realized that a large portion of my social life was based around drinking and I've become very reclusive, intentional or not in sobriety. I know for a fact that I am often not invited to get togethers and parties because I

don't drink, which I really don't mind and honestly appreciate because having to be around a bunch of people drinking when you aren't just isn't that much fun. Still, the feeling of being slightly outcast is real. Anyway, just wanted to share that I truly get it and that it's nice to feel represented in a weird way. Also, I have Brooks running shoes and had no idea they were popular with old people.

I just turned 35, congratulations. So maybe that's a sign that I'm entering middle age. I did buy them because of the extra cushion in the heel. So there is that. Thanks for being you and a regulation pod is legitimately my favorite thing that has come out of RT. Happy to be a Patreon supporter. Thank you so much, Kevin, for your Patreon support.

Thank you for your support of RT. Thank you for the email. Thank you for rocking Brooke's shoes and not being scared to look like an old guy. I hear they're fantastic. not being scared to look like an old guy. I hear they're fantastic. Yeah, it's like being a member, being an alcoholic or someone who's dealt with an addiction,

it's kind of like being a member of a shitty club you don't wanna be a member of, but anytime you meet somebody who has the special handshake, you're like, you truly see each other, you know? Yeah. It is funny too, you talk about appreciating not being invited to places where people are drinking. I share the sentiment as well.

Though one of the first things I said when I stopped drinking was, cause I used to love to go to bars at happy hour and just read a book for a little while while I got hammered. And I always thought like, I don't wanna lose that, that. So I read, I enjoy that part. And I always thought like, I don't want to lose that, that, so I read, I enjoy that part. And I'm not going to be with those people when they quit drinking, he stops going to bars,

becomes lame. Dude, the first thing I did when I quit drinking was stop going to bars. Bars smell, they smell like stale, stinky, sour alcohol, and beer, and bleachy cleaner trying to cover it up. And you don't notice that smell until you quit drinking. And man, I cannot get you don't notice that smell until you quit drinking and man I cannot get far enough away from that smell that would keep me out the door

Let alone just like you're right Kevin as people get drunker and you stay sober. It just becomes You end up on different You're on different planes, you know, and it's hard to connect and it becomes hard for you to have a good time At least in my experience. Let's do one more email. This is from Jason. Based on how you describe building another company, it almost sounded like playing a progression heavy game after many years, like picking up a Civ game or something. I mean, more in the excitement of starting from practically nothing to a fully functional and well put together thing. Excited to see how well the Andrew robot works out.

Happy to be a fan. Thank you so much, Jason. And I completely agree with you. It does feel a little bit like playing some sort of a world builder game, especially you're like, like I already played Internet Company Simulator one, two and three. So playing number four is no big deal for me. I already know the bones. You know what? Let's do one more. This one's from Jacob. Hey, Jeff, big fan since 2013, I believe it was in a previous episode of So Right

when you explained that you proposed to Emily on Mackinac Island, which I thought was super cool because I had lived fairly close to the island. I wanted to know if you had the chance to explore any other smaller cities when you were there in the area. Petoskey, Charlevoix, I assume is how you say that. Harbor Springs are nice small towns that are all fairly near each other, but each have their own charm.

Did you get yourself or Emily a Petoskey stone? I absolutely didn't, I don't know what that is, but I feel like I need one. Also wondering if you would be interested in doing an episode of So I'll Write on the picking of moral mushrooms. It is a huge event in Northern Michigan. Now I do not eat mushrooms,

but my family has hunted them for as long as I can remember. My mother used to strap me to her back in a baby carrier and head into the woods. I look forward to what's to come us all right and regulation. Take care and have a great day. I've never heard of a Petoskey stone and I'm never I've not I don't think I've ever had a moral mushroom, but I would love to go searching for them. I think that sounds like a lot of fun and no, I haven't had a chance to explore much of Michigan, honestly, outside of the Detroit suburbs and Mackinac Island. And I would love to, I would absolutely love to. And I'm, when I get up there and we buy the house here in the next, I don't know, year or so, and start spending, you know,

decent amounts of time up there. It's the first thing on my list is to travel around and learn more about Michigan and explore some of the small towns and interesting places to it. Because I've been doing that in Texas for many, many, many years and I love Texas, but I've seen it all and I'm ready. I'm ready to do that somewhere else.

Ah, all right, I think we'll go ahead and stop it here. Call that an episode. I think we'll go ahead and stop it here. Call that an episode and I will save the rest of these emails for next episode of which there are plenty. You guys have been emailing me a lot lately and I really, really appreciate it. Thank you so much for your engagement. I owe you a song of the episode and I think today it's going to be, I'm tempted to say Zoinks new shoes, but I'm not tempted to say Zoinks, new shoes,

but I'm not gonna pick Zoinks again so soon. So instead I'm going to pick The River by Fievel is Gloc. Fievel is Gloc is I believe a French band. They sing in English though. And I think you will really enjoy this. It's think like sexy elevator lounge music. And don't forget to check out the regulation podcast. If you get a chance, I'd really appreciate it.

As well as fake Jeff on Twitch and my cameo is at Jeff L. Ramsey. That'll do it for me. I will see you guys next week. All right. This is the end of the show. What?