Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Best of 2021: Machine Gun Kelly

Episode Date: December 22, 2021

Willie looks back on his memorable interviews of the year. Machine Gun Kelly started his music career as a rapper, but it was his latest #1 punk album Tickets to My Downfall that launched the hard-edged musician to superstardom. In this “Sunday Sitdown,” Willie Geist gets together with the artist to talk about that move to punk after four successful hip-hop albums and his discomfort with the spotlight at the top of the music world. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another special edition of the Sunday Sit Down podcast, where I am bringing you at the end of another year, my favorite conversations from 2021. As you listen to this conversation with music superstar Machine Gun Kelly, you might be asking yourself, why would Willie choose this as one of his favorite conversations? Well, it really and truly was. It did get off to a rocky start. I can't lie about that. M.G.K. had a big show in Central Park the night before. I was there with my wife and my kids who absolutely love him. Know every word to his songs. He didn't feel like the show went very well. He came in, let's say, less than thrilled to be doing the interview. So after we got through a couple of questions where he didn't say much, I thought, let's give the man a break. Maybe he's not ready. He didn't love that. So we kind of grappled. We grind through the beginning of it. But when we come out the other side, a place I think where we kind of understood each other,

we had a great conversation about his life, about his career, about where he is right now, about wanting to be heard, about his relationship with Megan Fox. So yes, you're going to hear it and go, ooh, maybe a little cringy at the beginning, but hang in with me because it truly ended up being one of my favorite conversations. Sometimes you've got to just stay in it. You got to stay in it and you've got to plow ahead. and I think it paid off. I should point out Machine Gun Kelly's real name is Colson Baker.

So I call him Colson throughout the interview. So yes, this is, believe it or not, one of my favorite interviews of 2021 with Machine Gun Kelly right now on the Sunday Sit Down podcast. You said that on stage last night when you were put on that show and giving off all that energy and that vibe to your fans who were giving it right back to you. You said at one point, I've got so much going on in my mind right. now. What did you mean when you said that? I think I'm just losing my footing on how to be human. I'm so work obsessed and I'm so busy trying to block out my demons with jobs that I'm getting sick of like wearing a smile because I just don't have anything behind the smile anymore. It's like becoming hollow.

And it's just like a hologram. It's not real. Like the smile is becoming not real anymore. So I'm just trying to figure out how to like, and I hope you keep this section on here. It's just it's weird to me that I can't come in

and have a morning where I'm overwhelmed with happiness, with sadness and all those things. and that I can't just come in front of cameras and be human. Because when I just tried to be and I was just kind of like being my actual self and not smiling and giving you the answers you want, I was offered the option to stop and take a break or go for a walk.

And it's like, why? Why do I have to be what you want? You don't at all? But that was what was insinuated, right? Not a nice. I would love for people to see how artists are actually what the expectations are, because I do always put that smile on it. For once, I was like, you know what, I'm going to, like, bring how I actually feel not just in music.

Because I've said it in music a million times, and people don't seem to ever hear it. But it's funny that, like, when I can wear my actual self on my sleeve, that that's not acceptable. and we have to take a break until I can muster enough to like fake an answer that everyone wants. I'm sorry, Colston, that you misread that. That wasn't my intention at all.

I'm incredibly interested in your story. I'm a fan of your music, and that's all I want to tell that full story, and that's what we're going to do. Cool. Well, they put the real stuff in there. You will. You will see it. You will see it. When you say it's putting that smile on and having to go out and do that

and how difficult that is, I think some people would see that and go, man, this guy's on top of the world. He's got a platinum self, number one album, all these things. And yet, as you say, that's all right there beneath the surface and it's in your music. So what do you say to people who are like, he's killing it right now? He's having his time. He's having his moment. Where are those demons that you talk about?

What do they come from? I think that's kind of between me and my head and I need to work out with myself. But what I do enjoy about this is being able to smile genuinely in those times. Like when we won that VMA, when we go out and we close the show and we weren't even supposed to close the show. And the night just took a whirlwind of its own and blessed us with that moment. Like those smiles, those are the real ones. I think when it's for the people, I'm like very authentic and in my gratefulness.

And when I'm in this room and I'm seeing so many people communicate behind that camera, like, freaking out because I'm not like, why does everyone keep moving back there and like doing, like, why, why am I just not, why is what's happening not okay? I'm just giving a, I'm just giving a very genuine interview, right? So like when I see everyone like freaking out and being like, what's happening? I'm like, I'm just being human, right?

Yeah. To me, it would be a lot cornyer if I came and I was like, Ronald McDonald in here just smiling and dancing around for no reason if that's not. I'm just hyper-focused. I'm not anywhere near done with the goals that I set out to do. I have yet to hear the public media. like the mainstream media, acknowledge my songwriting, acknowledge the musicianship, acknowledge the catalog, like I hear tabloid headlines that are like, they fall short and exciting me because I'm like,

nothing matters but the music. And that's why I'm here today, to be clear. I want to talk about your music. That's why I was right there. there on the rail for your show last night because I'm because you are a great musician and you have made this incredible leap from hip hop to oh my gosh he tries punk and it's the number one album I don't try punk I am punk and I do punk I don't try it so what was that decision like for you Colson when you went in January of last year to that record label

and said I'm making a punk album it was already written the resurgence had to have And at some point, like music lost the music. There was no more instruments in music. It became synthesized. It became digital. It became electronic. To see a stage with no musical instruments, or even to see award shows have instruments that aren't plugged in.

Do y'all know that? Do y'all know that your favorite art? artists go out there and play to play and it's not live, like their instruments aren't live? Do you know that? Have the list come out in these award shows of who the actual musicians that play live are. I encourage it needed rawness again. It needed somebody to be like, I'll make a mistake and mess up or not mess up, and you can at least just hear my personality and the playing of however I was feeling that night.

I'll do that in front of millions of people. even if like somewhere between whatever year and now that rawness and authenticity got lost, like I don't have a problem being that though. So it was, I had always given off that energy that I was willing to be the risk taker, that I was willing to, that I always wanted to be responsible for some, wave, something that like people remember, I was there when that happened, or I remember when that happened, or I remember what I first heard this or when I first saw this. And in my career, I've been fortunate enough to do that numerous times. From the beginning of my career to the, to the, to a couple times in between and to right now.

And to be honest, like right now it feels like the start. But, yeah, I mean, I'm kind of here to put a distinct separation between what's polished and what's actual, what's real. And to bring feel back, everything's so numb because it's so perfect. And when it's perfect, it doesn't make you uncomfortable. And if you aren't uncomfortable, then you can't have a feeling. you just sit in the everything's okay and when everything's okay, you're bored. Boredom isn't music to me.

Music is excitement. Music is unpredictable. That's the word it came to mind. It's a little bit scary maybe too. Was it nice to prove a bunch of people wrong when he put out tickets to my downfall? And they said, wait a minute, he's a rapper. What's he up to now?

and to put out an album that good that had that much success continues to have that much success, did that feel good to be able to say, I took this leap and it worked and to prove some people wrong? Absolutely. I think I know the answer,

but was there any hesitation or any fear about going and playing punk? Not one. Not one. It actually strikes me as odd that people even associate that as a transition with me, as if I didn't come out with a six-inch Mohawk on my first album,

as if I didn't have guitar-based music on all of my albums, as if I wasn't on a warp tour for three years, from Ernie Ball Stages playing at 1230 begging for people to stop and watch our show, to the next year where we were closing by the end of the tour. and all the bands would come and watch our show. I'm not new here. I'm not new to this. True to this. What's interesting is there are so many people in this country and around the world

who maybe came to you from tickets to my downfall and don't realize the level of success you had with four previous albums that all were not only charted really well but were highly regarded in music world. that you did have this entire life before this. Has it been cool for you to sort of open that door to a new group of fans, younger fans, their parents? You know what I mean?

Like, there's a whole new universe to you now. Yeah, it's really cool. I love, like, seeing all these new hands raise up when I ask, like, how many people is it their first time seeing Machine Gone Kelly Live tonight? And then just see, like, 10,000 hands go up and 5,000 hands already be like, no, I've been here before. To see it grow, like that is so exciting and so anti what we've seen happen in most people's

careers, which is like I'll be going on my sixth album with Born with Horns after tickets, which was my fifth album. and it seems like it's fresher than ever to people and more of a trending topic than ever when usually this would be when I'm most uninterested in somebody's artistry now

because I feel like they've told me everything but I feel like I held back everything I feel like I held back for you ever who I actually was like there was always my I was always bearing it all but I just hadn't removed certain subconscious layers to realize I hadn't even it's like an iceberg you know you just see the tip and then like below the water is miles and miles of that iceberg and but you only are seeing that and I was

too I was only seeing the top of what was coming above the surface you know I was too to go underneath and see what was really in there because I had covered it up. Because as a kid, I was scared. So my reaction was to black it out and to build this exterior shield, create a character, and then go from there. So, yeah, I mean, as I like I learn more about myself through reaching like yeah yeah I got yeah well I mean it's all in there listen to the album there's love and there's deep pain and there's loss with your father with

lonely I mean you definitely swam down and and sort of investigated the depths of that iceberg no that actually tickets was just me sticking my head in the water I didn't actually even swim down yet the swimming down came after that album released and I like had affirmation that right you know touching on what I saw when I poked my head under the water was was okay and I was like oh maybe I should swim deeper so I'm born with horns it gets it gets deeper but still keeping the still keeping the melody still keeping the ability to have the six-year-old and the 60-year-old be able to vibe to it

and be able to have all the the angst and the drama and the and the things that a 16 year old would like you know this this the

16 year old with all the energy in the world to be like I can pick the world up and smash it right now like I have it's it's all in there like it feels like I got struck by lightning or something during that tickets album. Yeah. Something happened to me.

I haven't been the same since. I've realized something about myself that is actually, it's dangerous. Dangerous, how? To you. To you. Because I'm not scared anymore. There's nothing holding me back from being my true self. And my true self is.

It can't be silence, can't be restrained. A force. It's like a hurricane. You can't stop that. It just goes until it feels like stopping. And I don't feel like stopping any time soon. So does that mean the new album is going to sound and feel a lot different than tickets? Will you build on tickets?

Is it going to a different place entirely? or for your fans who can't wait to see. We've heard paper cuts, of course. It feels more guitar heavy for sure. Yeah. Lyrically, definitely goes deeper. But I never like to do anything the same. Every album is a juxtaposition of the last album.

So I went and studied tickets and I heard the bright sound that I had. And for this album, I just turn the lights off. So it will be different. Do you have any sense for how soon we might get to hear it? It feels like the tickets to my downfall era deserves this tour, which takes us to the end of the year. But I almost feel like the second you open your eyes in this 2022, that you'll have something to listen to as well.

And usually when people say that, they mean like spring. I'm talking about right when you open your eyes in this 2022. A New Year's Day gift? be another thing to fill your other senses, not taste. I was talking about this sense. Unless born with horns comes with like an awesome like tray of food. Now that. That's next level. You can taste the album. That's actually sick. That's so hard. Instead of streaming, everyone just eats the music. That's tight. That's a new creation I'll work on.

That'll be like my 2040 project. If anybody can do it, I think it's you. You'll pull it off. When Wantke was doing the everlasting gobstopper or something, like I'll think of some way to as soon as you chew it, you're like, what? This is going to happen.

We're going to watch for this. That'll be cool. Hey guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Machine Gun Kelly right after the break. Welcome back to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Now more of my conversation with Machine Gun Kelly. You were talking a little bit about your childhood and I'm curious who you think you are speaking to and singing to you when you write the songs you write. You had a quote I read that really moved me and stayed with me where you said something on the lines of, I'm one of the kids who didn't have signatures in his yearbook.

People didn't sign my yearbook. I wasn't cool. I didn't know what to hang on to. and then here comes music and now I've got something. And I feel like, man, there are so many kids like that who see you and hear you and feel you. And they go, yes, he speaks my language. Is that who you're talking to in some ways? That's who I empathize with.

That's who I find a commonality with. But I just realized that over time, by only choosing to speak for people who outwardly don't feel, feel cool. I'm also alienating the people that we may think are just so cool who inside are so insecure and are just like, dude, I just wanted to, I just wanted to be cool like with you. Because you don't know how many people and artists in general that I've written off or that have written me off in one conversation, usually drunk, we're like, oh, man, I just had it all wrong, dude, I'm so sorry. I thought this. No way, because I thought this. And we just judge each other.

And it's so whack because it takes away the opportunity to have great art. Like I always hated the fact that even dating way back to the prehistoric age when the Beatles and the Rolling Stones were out, like I wish that they had did music together. You know, you wish there wasn't these third parties in between making each other stay away. So, I mean, I'm kind of just making music for any, I'm just making music. I'm just making music. I'm like, I don't want to put a label on for who because you would, I'm constantly surprised at who comes up to me and it's like, dude. Like this weekend, you know, just being like, like,

like paper cuts, I love that song. Or like looking to the side stage and being like, oh my God, look at a little nods going off over there to this song. Yeah. And he was. Yeah. So those preconceived notions of

well, I'm making this song for and I'm, but at being parallel with this opinion of me also being like I make music for or excuse me, I just said the button, me at the same time going, you know, I don't like elitism or I don't like to be, you know, for like, you know, pop punk gatekeepers to be like, well, this is acceptable.

Like these bands are cool. These bands are not, there's sellouts. It's just like it's all so against each other. Like they all don't make any sense. Like the only thing that makes sense is to just make music and people that, you can't tell people that they can't like it because they are not what I think are the people that should like it, right? You know what I mean?

Like at the show last night, there's world champion tennis players and skateboarders and like Olympic skateboarders. There's kids who probably go to private school. There's kids who probably took a train. There is kids who took a train from middle of nowhere, New Jersey. There's kids from the Bronx, there's kids from Brooklyn. There's like, it's just a melting pot of people who come together for music, like the religion of music.

So I don't feel like it's cool of me to say who I'm making music for, because I don't know, I'm just making music. It's on the sound waves to resonate with whoever's frequency is operating on that level of what I'm making. And what you've proven is it doesn't have to fit into a genre box. You can do it. No, that narrative got to stop. Like, people have to stop with this weird genre divide. It's like, it, we look at all these other aspects in life, religion, color, science, all these things.

It's just like, dude, just let things be what they are naturally. There shouldn't be division between anything that should just be individual. like that it should be like self-division with choices that you make that should be the only thing that you latch on to not like a grand opinion tyrannized by one person who's also just a person telling you like this is how you should feel we should all just like like everyone just wants to love right or be loved and sometimes music can might be the only thing you can feel that way about, you know? If you're, if you're me growing up, that was what I,

that was the voice I listened to. It was just what, like, my body felt when I heard certain music. Like, have you ever cried to a song? Oh, yeah. Okay, then that is, oh. Then you know that that's pure. There is no, like, no one could tell you cry when you hear the song.

That was just something that it did naturally. So it's weird that, now it's like I think people are just bored God how bored do you have to be to be like man you should only do this music right you can only do this music

what you can do is shut the up what I can do is whatever I want because I have that I have that power that

I think this answer has been 30 minutes. No, it's great. No, but you're right because the fans anymore, and you correct me if I'm wrong, aren't listening to a gatekeeper. They're not reading a review on a website oh yes, maybe they're right. I shouldn't like this song that Machine Gun Kelly has out. They hear your music, they like it, they relate to it, it moves them in some way, and that's it, right? They're not looking at genre boxes and deciding whether or not they're okay to listen to the music. They shouldn't, but there are still those who like take the time to do the genre boxes and do the headlines and do the reviews.

Instead of coming from a place of like, what do you feel, though? I was even reading one this morning that I was just like, I was just uninspired by the, I was reading it and I was like, this is why rock journalism, music journalism. It's like, it's such a broken record of anyone who's not of the same age or in the same generation as you,

you'll call legends. icons or whatever. And then anyone who is right here with you, you have to like speak down on or you have to like say, oh, well, it's not what this. You don't know what that was. Because when I'm looking at these magazine articles in the 70s or 80s, reviewing albums that now we classify as the greatest albums of all time, they were giving them like two stars and being like, these guys suck. This dude's a poser. This, this, this, these people can't, I don't like the way they sound.

Da, da, da, da. And then because those are people that are of the same age, same insecurities, don't like that this person is doing this. They don't have horse blanters on. So they're only looking at those people's lives, not appreciating their own lives and being like, you know what? I actually had a great night of music listening. You know what I mean?

Unless someone blatantly comes out of nowhere and is like, I hate you all. this concert sucks. I'm not playing the concert. That's something that you can be like, yeah, you're kind of not cool. But like, it's so weird that you have to die or be of a different age bracket to have people really not be scared

to tell you their true opinions. How many people in 2001 were like, and I don't listen to Green Day or Blink what a two dude that's mainstream pop punk and then you play the songs they know every word you liars it's like the most

it's the weird guilty pleasure of being like I can't say that I'm into this but like I'm into this but like I'm not saying it though and then 20 years later everyone those same people come out and are like dude they're the goats man like this is my favorite

stuff. Like, I'm just a fan of not having to get gray hair on my head before people start to be like, and I'm not talking about, I'm not talking about the people, because the people spoke already. The people let it be known. That's why the industry, that's why, that's why my guitar was even allowed on stage of the VMAs, right? Because the people were like, you know what we want. And if we don't get that, we're making an issue out of it. So, like, this needs to happen. And it's undeniable, a category that's been out of the picture for 20 years since the Nirvana, since the green. They had to put that on.

It wasn't even on air last year, the one I want. Best alternative. Yeah. It was, that was one of the biggest clips of the night and it wasn't even on air. but that clip of that win and like the the how odd it was that that is you had that that that that got moved and put on air after 21 years I guess yeah because of the people but what I'm asking is as media to finally have courage and like have courage to say what it actually is like the resurgence happened because

of an unexpected and unpredictable a bold reason and a big part of that reason is because of this person in an orange peach whatever suit right now and it's okay to admit that it's all right right. I'm going to die one day. And it's okay to like say congratulations while I'm still here. And it's okay to not think of me as this like overconfident, intimidating presence that way that I constantly hear people judge me as. Because people think like I have it so together that they don't need to help me through my issues or that they don't need to be there for me because they're like, oh, you got it? Look how he like carries himself. Insecurity runs through my bones like blood. Inconfidence runs through the backstage before and after show constantly.

I constantly critique myself. It's not a day I don't wake up and miss the mirror every time because I don't want to look at what's going on. I'm not talking about physically. I'm talking about in every aspect. You know what I mean? My gut is constantly filled with anxiety. My chest can't breathe. My therapist says I have an issue with breathing.

I can't stop fidgeting. I fidget all the time. Like, there isn't one bit of this that I just, like, breeze through. And I'm just like, I've never, ever once been asked, am I good? People just assume am I good. People ask me if my friends are good. And they miss the messenger to go ask. And I'll be like, okay, are you all good, bud?

Yeah, he's all good. I'm not. but I'll just go talk to myself or go write it more on music and you'll just miss it more and more again. I took a song out of the set list for this tour. It's my first, like, sold-out tour. First time going in front of crowds where the whole towns are, like, shut down because of the concert going on, right? Like, we tried to postmate food. The postmate wrote back.

It's a two-hour delivery time. the spot was 15 minutes away. Wow. It was like the highways are clogged up because of a Machine Gun Kelly concert. And I waited for that for a really long time. Planned out this whole set. And I got on stage,

and the last song of the set was also the last song of my album. And I performed it one night. felt really uncomfortable doing the song. Because it was essentially something that I wrote as like a good bye to my daughter at a time when I felt on a night in particular at a at a spot that I frequented where I felt like my heart palpitating. I felt like I felt like I was overdosing.

I felt like I was kind of like checking. out, like my body was shutting down. And I was writing a note. Like, I have to send this. Like, if this is it, like, this has to be the last thing now. Like, she has to know this, right? And later in the studio, we ended up turning it into a song. And I had just sent it to her without any plans of it ever coming out, right?

And then I was encouraged to put it out. I put it out, but performing it, I pulled it out of the set. Like the second night in the middle of the song, I just stopped. And I was like, this will be the last time you hear this song in concert. I just want to respect the energy of this song and what it was intended for and not, like, turning into a show. Because it came from a real place, and it is in a show. So.

Does that happen to you often when you've written a song in a moment, maybe reacting to something that's happening in that moment and then your life is so different by the time you get out of the stage that it feels like you say it just doesn't feel right to be singing it because it belonged to that moment it doesn't belong on that stage no because most of the time my whole career I have no problem putting on that smile that we talked about

yeah like I've been frustrated for years about starting stuff I've been like don't you hear me crying out in this song right here don't you hear that like everything's not all right Don't you hear it's like, don't you hear that you miss it every time when it comes to how I'm, how I'm portrayed in the mainstream media? Like, they don't want me to be an underdog. They don't want me to re-rooted for. They don't want me to be coveted or beloved.

Like, they want me to be hated and villainized and scrutinized and ostracized so badly. And I don't understand it because I'm a kid who came from nothing out of the middle of a, town that wasn't known for anything other than sports and steel and crime and I came in with no guidance, no real sense, and I'm just like, I'm just trying. Every day I wake up, I just try. I never once if I came, I'm been like, I know what I'm doing. And if I have, then that was a It was just me having to have my own back because it felt like only my fans were that guidance or were the people that have my back. But fans don't write the narrative until recently when the fans began taking control of the internet. That was like the Wild Wild West.

That's where we were allowed to be cowboys and take our guns out and be like, nah. Like you aren't the sheriff anymore. This is our town. The outlaws like, run it now. That's why tickets to my downfall. Achieve what it achieved. That's why even the week of, I remember we were going up against a group

that had like a Marvel collab come out. Marvel is like the biggest universe of fans you can get. And everyone was like, oh my God, now we're not going to get the number one. They got this Marvel collab. And I'm like, just watch, dude. heart and like word of mouth, like the people are going to take this. Like no one can beat when something real comes along.

Like the the machine can't win up against the people. And that number one was so much more than a spot on a billboard. It was like a statement. Yes. Every machine, right? Like a statement to every artist to. who might be out there, like, wanting to give up if their first album didn't hit, or their second album didn't hit, or their third album, they aren't getting a Grammy nomination,

or their fourth album, they aren't getting a VMA nomination, or their fifth album, if they make it there, if they have the courage to stick it out for this marathon, you know, like, that is a statement of hope. That's a statement of build it and they will come. because like the people showed up and they need to know that they're responsible for something like really saving my life

because I can I can close my eyes whenever it's time to close them for good and be like I felt like I finally like meant something you know like I finally like did something I gave people moments

and I think now I just want to I want the art to proceed the celebrity, right? I just want the art to be in front of the face. Which is hard, right? Super hard, dude.

Super hard. It's like why I understand Kanye and putting that mask on. Because then all you can do is hear the music. My friend who is now a friend, but I remember he was just telling me

yeah man i never really listened to your music i just i always just hated your face and then he listened to my but but he he that comment followed who is this and i was like oh this is my new this is my new song he was like whoa dude this is really good it was a song called 536-66 six six it's like this is you i was like yeah he's like that's crazy man i never listened to music i just never really liked you i never liked looking at you but in a blind test of your music. He's like, yeah, I like that guy. How about that? Yeah. But that's the dilemma, right?

The bigger you get, the more popular your music is, the more people want to chase you around and take your picture and know about your personal life and talk about Megan and everything else. So how do you begin to manage that? I would want to talk about Megan too. I don't blame anybody for that.

It's hard not to. Yeah. That's not something I'll ever fault someone for it. When you're writing tickets to my downfall, the irony, and you've spoken about this, is you're writing about your downfall, and yet on the back end of it, it becomes this incredible rocket chip for you, and you fall in love while you're writing the album, you lose your dad near the end of the process. Do you see that irony of, okay, I'm writing about the end here, and actually, no, this is sort of a rebirth or a new beginning, as it turned out to be? Or does it even feel that way?

Does it feel ironic? Like a rebirth? Yeah. Absolutely. It feels like a rebirth. Yeah. That's why I came out of the grave on the VMAs. I wasn't dying. I was reborn. That's why the saint was behind me. It is a rebirth. Do I feel the irony of the title change? Of the title being taken to my downfall? Absolutely. I knew it when I was, I was, I knew it when I was sitting at a table with two other people high out of my mind.

And the statement, I'm selling tickets to my downfall and everyone's buying, was spoken. And I was like, that's it. That's it. Like, I'd never attached myself to something more in my life, you know? And I just, I'm a bet it all on the table guy. So that was what it was. I knew how people could take that and make the biggest story of me failing if I did so. And I also knew the reward of if they turned that card over and we're playing blackjack

and I get 21, what those winnings would look like. So if you want to, if you want an actual smile, I will smile right now because the winnings of that risk were very good. Yeah, I think you hit Blackjack. Yeah. Winner, winter, chicken dinner. Stick around for more of my conversation with Machine Gun Kelly, including how his upbringing shaped his music.

That's after a quick break. Welcome back now, more of my conversation with Machine Gun Kelly. I'm interested in you. You were talking about your childhood, your influences, because you're talking about kids looking at you and connecting with you, you know, with your father. You didn't have a lot of guidance at home, as you just said. So who were those people on the radio? Who were those people on TV? What pulled you up and said, try music. Maybe music is the way.

My house was very, I lived my aunt. I lived in her basement. It was very quiet. And when it wasn't quiet, I didn't like what I was hearing. It was very, like, scary to a kid. I actually just saw child videos of me for the first time, like videos of me as a three-year-old for the first time. And I couldn't believe that the innocence of that kid turned into this guy. But I just put on a headphone. and what I was listening to and what I was seeing on TV

became the new voices that I was okay hearing. But, I mean, I've never really said this, but it should be said, like the people who I'm still with now and all those people in the streets who, you know, dude, gang members, like people who, would be labeled by this midtown Manhattan society as people that I shouldn't or that wouldn't be protective of something so good. I saw the opposite. I watched them see something in me and protect it and help me, you know, be a ladder for me to get to,

this level and I I just think we miss a lot of the beauty in this country of what of what is actually going on when humans like have a connection to something right like I think we just we label everything really wrong because I actually think the people that I was supposed to look up who didn't do the right job and actually put me down and suppressed my dreams and all the people that you're not supposed to be around were the ones that really lifted me up and, like, filled my heart with love and gave me a protection that a family couldn't. And so that I owe them, like, whenever they see me, they always say, Don't stop.

Don't let nobody get in the way of this. They would have given up and have given up their own lives just to see me attain something that we all thought was impossible. But we knew that this was a vessel that could actually work, like we all saw it early on. So it was actually very unconventional how and who my, upbringing was kind of formed and created. Because those guys could have written you off.

Like, who's this kid who wants to be a rapper, right? For sure. But they opened their arms to you. For sure. So, and the streets educated me a lot, a lot. It gave me the real education that I needed. And it showed me how to be a man. It showed me how to feed my dog.

when I had no means of doing so, show me how to believe in myself. And it protected me along the way because it was a lot of wars to get here. It was a lot of fights to get here. Physically and mentally. It was a lot that the cameras will never pick up on. People talk about different turning points in your career.

They might say meeting Travis backstage, way back in Cincinnati, I think it was. Cleveland, but hilarious. Yeah, Cleveland. That was wild to think about. They talk about when Diddy saw you, signed you to Bad Boy, talk about when you won amateur night at the Apollo. Did any of those nights stick out to you as,

okay, this is someone telling me I can be who I think I can be. I can actually do this. Or maybe all of them. sure all of them played a big part subconsciously. I still think it took a lot longer until I felt okay with myself, right? But that Apollo night, like getting that first check from music, even if it was $45, which it was, that was my first rap check. It was like, and being the first, right, the first rapper to do it.

Like, that was, that was, um, felt like the, like, they gave me a key or something. And I, all I had to do was just find the right door that it fit in. But before I was kind of just, I didn't have any tools. I didn't know what doors. I just did. I was just kind of like, I want to get in. And then that first check kind of gave me that key. And then it also helped me because it was like, I never cast that check.

I always just saved it. And then I don't think I've cashed a check since because I never once like have looked or cared about money until I realized that old team members stole all of it. And I realized, I better start looking at it. I probably should have looked at it. But, you know, it's always been about like the art to me and the music and the memories and the experiences because that is more liquid than cash is. to me, that's more like I can think back really quick and have a memory and feel warm. But Cash is just like, I don't feel anything. You know what I mean?

It doesn't do anything. It's a nice little knot, though. That's... So as you say, you've been like portrayed as hard-living guy, punk. Do you feel yourself growing, changing as you have? into this new album, just personally, I mean. I mean, you've said the music is going to have a different feel. Do you feel yourself, I don't know if growing up is the right term, but just changing and evolving?

I don't ever want to grow up. You don't seem, grown up to me seem like, I feel like growing up is a, is an alias for no energy. It's just, it means that you're like. a stale loaf of bread. Like, you, you know what I mean? Like, you're, you, you, you're, you're smiley, you're vibrant, you know, like, that's, if I become a stale loaf of bread, you can just take me off the shelf. So growing up does not interest me.

Maturing and becoming a better me is absolutely first on my agenda because that ends up coming out on my fans and my relationship and my daughter and my friendship and I always want that to be exceeding what it was the day before and the day before that. Like I always want people to feel the love grow off of me constantly. I just want to be comfortable taking layers off that I keep putting in front of myself. It's like when I walked in at the beginning of this interview and I was like, I don't want to be here because I feel. feel lost today, it's okay to be lost. Yeah. Because there's some days I wake up and I know exactly where I am, but I can't hide it anymore. Because then I watched myself where I can go and

watch interviews and I'm like, who is that? Where are you? Like I am you and I don't know you. What planet are you on, dude? Like, what dimension? me is this. I don't understand this. How hard do you have to like act like you're not here? Because I know you and I don't know you. Because he had the mask on, the guy you were looking at? I mean, he had an iron man suit on. He did. It was a mask, a suit, a shield, a sward, a centaur. Centaur, I don't know. I mean, there was like eight million things where I'm just like, where are you, dude?

Come out. God damn. Well, I want to say that I'm grateful, first of all, that you're telling me this, that you came and sat and did lose the mask and we could have a conversation. And obviously at the beginning of our interview, I meant absolutely no disrespect.

I wanted to give you time if you needed that, and I misread your cadence and your vibe but I am honestly so grateful that you would sit on a day when you feel lost, as you said, and would just open it up to me. So thank you for that. No, I mean, I want to thank you for not being a person to shun me for having a human moment. Yeah. And I, like, obviously was blessed by you coming to the show

and you having such positive things to say when you came in and knowing that you're 12-year-old a 14-year-old were at the show and we're at the show and got to see me do what I love to do, even if it was lightning, sound difficulties, people not showing up. So all the things, the fact that they didn't care about any of that is amazing. But yeah, I think you're just the first one to interact with me since I've made that decision I think you're the first one that I've interacted with since I've decided to make that decision consciously

to just be how I am. There's nothing more I hate than looking at something I've done and I'm like everything was wrong that day and I lied to everybody and to myself by even showing up there or acting like I was not worried about what was going on internally. So you don't have to keep any of this.

Obviously, this is just me talking to it. Yeah, no. I'm grateful because it's not easy to sit down and strip it all the way and just be real. So thank you for that. Thank you. I mean, also, I guess a really important part to me is to make sure that, The people who see me that have known me know me know how appreciative and gracious I am. So I hope that there are parties in this interview that are light.

And it's just not a bunch of. Yeah. So, I mean, if you feel like you got that, then obviously I'm willing to... It's the full picture, man. Call it. It's who you are. Okay. But if you want to keep going, if you feel like, you know, I definitely want people to see me.

beaming in a moment like this, right? Because it is something I look back at hindsight and be like, what a time. I guess I always just have those fears of those times being in the past or something, you know? Yeah. That's what drives me to be like, I can't soak in the moment. I have to just creating, I have to just keep creating more. But it must feel pretty damn good to stand in a stage with rain coming down, hold your pink microphone out that way, I have an entire crowd sing every word of a song you sat in a room and wrote by yourself. Yeah, I'll rock with that. That's cool. Definitely. That's, that's like, I could cry thinking about that, man. I was like a decade in, two years ago, three years ago, four years ago, not being sure if I was doing the right,

you know, doing the right things. I didn't know where it was leading to and for it to culminate in these moments of sold out shows and crowds singing everywhere. Dude, the fact that we have a 32-song set list that people sing all 32 sides. They are. I saw it last night. I felt it last night. I felt it last night

because I had friends come to the show and I was like, damn, I know my friends are thinking, it was like that part of the show when I dropped, I think I'm okay right after another song that everyone had just sang, and I was positive that everyone was like, all right, well, he gassed out all the hits, so there's like not, I don't know where it could go from here, and then all of a sudden, watch me, take a good thing

and mess it all up in one night, and the whole crowd just erupts and starts singing every word, and they were like, another one, and then like, that's over, And then, you know, they're like, okay, all right, well, that's got to be the last, like, sing-along one. And then, like, you know, Bloody Valentine or, like, just, dude, it was, it is a trip. Because I loved going to concerts, and when you watch an act that you kind of are like, you're super familiar with. But, like, when they're playing, they're playing songs, and you're just like, dude, I forgot how many of these songs I know.

Yeah. how did you make so many songs that I know? You know, like, that's been the dream, dude. Because you understand when I started touring, they knew half a song. It was like, they knew like one song, right? Or there was a whole tour where I just had to pitch, you had to pitch like the song.

Like when Wild Boy first came out, I had to just pitch how wild I was. I would stop the show and I wouldn't perform. I would take my pants off and just be in boxers, and I wouldn't perform until someone else threw their pants on stage, and I would put their pants on and do the song. Because it was like, it took that much to sell the song at that point. It was just that, like, new and that much to prove that, and wanting to be that memorable, where you're like, no, no, no, we're not just going to do some songs and, like, give you the option to forget me. you're going to remember how crazy this night was. And then after I got tired of being crazy on stage,

I wanted to be prolific on stage. And after that, I wanted to be musical on stage. And then to be able to just stand there and not have to, like, cut myself open with a broken bottle and have all these other factors come before the music and for me to just be able to stand there and be like, And this next song is called, and it plays and everyone sings it. That was like, that was always the dream.

So I'm living the dream right now. And then how about the ultimate rock star moment at the end when they turn off the electricity on you? And you didn't even need sound for them to sing the song. You say it to them and they came back. I mean, come on. Yeah, that was great, man. The lightning couldn't stop the show. Well, it did stop the show, but it didn't make us.

Not really. Not really. It's cool. Well, I know you got a show to get to tonight. I'm so grateful for the time today. Thanks a lot. Congratulations. You touched a lot of people. People you probably don't even know you touched.

And your music means a lot. So many. Thank you so much. Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot. Thank you. My thanks again to Colson for taking the time and for opening up on that day. We got there again, didn't we?

Thanks to all of you for tuning in. Be sure to check out more of my favorite conversations from 2021, all of which now are up on the summer. Sunday Sit Down Podcast. And don't forget to tune in to Sunday today every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. Thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down Podcast.