Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Brendan Fraser

Episode Date: February 26, 2023

Brendan Fraser was on a role in the 1990s and early 2000s, starring in The Mummy, George of the Jungle, Crash and many other films. He says it was a break-neck pace. Since then, he took on smaller roles and retreated from Hollywood. But now he is back with a critically-acclaimed performance in The Whale. In this week's Sunday Sitdown, Willie and Brendan got together for a fireside chat. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks, as always, for clicking and listening along. Got a great one for you this week with the Oscar-nominated Brendan Frazier. He's having a bit of a comeback at the moment for his performance in The Whale. It's an extraordinary story that was first a play, now a film, where he plays a man who weighs something like 600 pounds confined to his home, trying to reconcile with his strange daughter. Brendan Fraser is a guy in the 90s was one of the biggest stars in Hollywood. He fronted movies like Encino Man, school ties, then big budget stuff like Georgia the Jungle,

then of course the face of the mummy franchise, three movies that gross more than a billion dollars. At the end of that run of the mummy, sometime in the mid-2000s, he kind of went away. You'll hear him talk about this in the interview. He had some injuries. There was some thought that maybe Hollywood was done with him. His health wasn't great. He said, you know, I went around. I was still working just in smaller stuff.

It's just that the phone wasn't ringing. And so in some ways, the whale marks a comeback. He's shied away from that a little bit because he's like, I didn't go anywhere. They kind of left me. But it's undeniable that people are happy to see Brendan Fraser back and in such an extraordinary way. He was nominated for the Golden Globe, the list of awards. He's been nominated for and won this award season. It's too long to list here, but he is nominated for Best Actor at the Academy Awards.

Brendan invited us to his home outside of New York City. Lives pretty quietly, a little bit rural. He's got a cool house, big sprawling backyard on a lake. He's really into archery. He's got a range down there. And he just kind of lives. He's a father of two. Sons live nearby him with their mother.

and so he gets he's got family life and a quiet life and now he's been thrust back into this spotlight. So it was a cool time to catch him. We sat in his living room by a fire that he had made and just had a great conversation, not just about the whale, but about his long journey through Hollywood bumps along the road and how much now he appreciates this moment because of all of it. So sit back, relax, and enjoy a conversation right now with Academy Award nominated actor Brendan Fraser on the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Well, thanks for having us over, Brandon. This is amazing. I want to point out the fire behind us,

handmade by you. No prop master, nothing like that. It's all you. Thank you very much. I have to imagine this is a nice place to escape, get to, especially with the whirlwind that has been your life for the last several months. It has been, and it always was. The purpose of this place was to have three boys be able to come through it

and splash or break or do anything to the walls. It's concrete and wood and steel. You can just hose it down if you have to, and it turns out they're the most mild-mannered, well-behaved, non-projectile throwing children that I've met among their peer groups. So they didn't even need it, huh? Nah, no. So I'm just, I'm going with, okay, well, then we decided to bring the outside, inside.

That's my design, aesthetic. Well, you're tucked away. It's really nice and peaceful back year. Has it been nice to walk through that door while all this is happening right now for you, around the whale, all the awards and all the film festivals and all the interviews and everything and just kind of find yourself again here? Yes, and I do it right here in front of that fireplace with these chairs turned around. It's where I would sit and I'm a mad tinkerer.

I have just baskets and buckets of junk. I love to twist and carve and bowl. and leather and I don't know I make little bizarre things I don't know what to name them but I think it's just fidgeting really well I have to think about everything that's going on and what could become it's it's been a real reflective time for me a meditative time a grateful time humbling time in many ways and I feel I feel fortunate that for whatever it is that's happening right now, that it didn't happen 20, 25 years ago

because I would not have been licensed to operate that equipment at that time in my life. It would have been too much too soon. So I feel more at home in myself and able to appreciate what it is, what could be, be happy for, everyone along this journey and feel like I'm more a member of a community in an authentic way than I ever thought I could be formerly. You would have taken the award 25 years ago, just that you can appreciate it better now. Likely, yeah.

Well, congratulations on the Oscar nomination. Thank you. What was that phone call like? I believe you were in this house when you got the news. For us mortals, what is it like to get? a call that says you were nominated for an academy. I watched the broadcast and saw Hong Chow get nominated and we shouted for joy and everyone else. And then it was my category and they said my name and I got really quiet and everyone else shouted.

And then my kids appeared with a fudgy the whale cake. That's my favorite part of the story. Yeah, honestly. For anybody who knows, Fudgy the Whale from Carvel. is as good as you can do, really. Right. And has there ever been a more appropriate dessert

for an occasion than Fuzzy the Whale? It was the first time I'd ever seen it. I just went, hey, where did you guys get a cake that's shaped like a whale? They looked at me and like, where have you been? It's an icon. It's an icon.

So your boys threw you a party in here, a little surprise party? Before they went to school. Yes. Yeah. And what's it been like for them to watch their dad have this amazing moment

over the last several months? It happened fairly recently and I've been traveling a lot, but I know how excited they are, and I know how they feel, I think we say, I feel a sense of pride for one another as a family. And it's also very exciting. I'm really happy that I was able to go into my 18-year-old's film studies class just before it came out and give a...

you know, a sort of Q&A, they'd all gone out to see the whale, and they're whip smart kids. Like, they understand the craft of filmmaking in a way that is so impressive. It was just the movies when I was there at age, you know, and now they want to know who's the distribution company. Right. They're that savvy. Right. And it's impressive because I firmly feel like there's a whole new generation, clearly.

upcoming and as we get better at this as we go along there's so much more talent and I think things are going to get really more exciting in the next 15 20 years knowing they're on the way your kids were like a 24 great choice yeah they weren't that excited they weren't excited until they heard a 24 and they're like yes it's amazing they know that what else it's also interesting to think about the fact that they weren't even i'm doing the math well i guess they were alive for some of it but for your massive hits the ones you're talking about from 20, 25 years ago, they either weren't alive for them or weren't conscious of them, right? So for them in some ways, this is like a coming out party for their dad. In a way, yes, if you put it that way. The mummy used to play on a loop

on, you know, at holidays and that kind of thing. And when they were very small, I'd be like, hey, guys, like, they look at it, go, it's not Power Rangers. I don't care. I don't care. What do we have to do? I know. You're all this time I thought, Dad's cool now. Nope. No.

But it sounds like you finally got him. Now Dad is cool. Now Dad's cool. We'll see how long that lasts. Well, the whale has connected so deeply with so many people. We were talking about it before it came on in so many different levels. I'm curious what connected with you at first. Just the idea, the pitch from Darren Aronovsky.

He saw this play. He thought of you, having seen you in another film. What did you hear when you heard that first pitch of this film? Darren and I met in January of 2020, and I knew very little about it going in because it was a very secretive project. And, you know, Darren's going to make a movie. That's news. Of course I want to meet him.

I had some creative intimidation, I'll admit to now, but I've grown to learn how principles, and process-oriented and how what's of a great collaborator, Darren Aronovsky is. As world-class filmmakers go, he's never been wanting to challenge the human condition that we all live in and offer up any easy answers and put that to his audience.

And I knew that this was the story of a man who'd been living alone. He'd been harming himself by over-earned. eating and he has very little time left and to save his very soul he his quest is to redeem himself in the eyes of his daughter from whom he is estranged and it seems like a simple enough idea in a way but that is set in one apartment two-bedroom apartment in Idaho and is born of a theatrical production, a conceit. His is a noble quest of hard-won hope.

And we're rooting for this guy, even after an eye-opening introduction on screen. He's a character who's so much more than you would assume who he is as he presents.

This is not a film about obesity. This is a film about a man who must reconnect with his daughter, full stop. And will he or will he not be able to is the question that we go on? And this is what Darren always attached himself to

as the meaning of the movie, fundamentally. And in our meeting, he was quite forthright about how he's going to cast this. And I clearly didn't know if I had the job or any of that, but he needed to create Charlie from the outside in. And to do that meant a lengthy process of prosthetic makeup. And a great deal of research. And he was insisting on a solid three-week rehearsal

to learn the material as you would do for a theatrical production. Because once you go from a rehearsal stage to the build, you want to have made all of your mistakes and discoveries and bonding before you get there on the day. Everything's more like a submarine crew and we're all on top of each other. And this is a film that was made during COVID. So all the protocols that were in place were very good to get everyone back to work. But at the same time, it added a layer of something that I think we're going to look back on in years to come of the work that came out in 2020, 21, 22 as being the sort of pandemic-era-COVID films.

And I see it in all the other films that are out there this year. There's something about the level of care that seems to be a secret ingredient. And I think that's a product of everyone being so careful with one another for the very reason that we might not have a tomorrow for all we knew at that time. And so when you come to do the work, it might as well be the best you've got and as if you'll never be invited to do this again. And as an actor, it's your job to do it as if it's for the first time. And that was the environment that Daring created for us. And putting all of that technical jargon aside, I think we all just wanted to tell us.

story about these five characters in search of redemption. For all of those reasons, you were excited about the role, working with Darren and telling this story, and then you yourself get COVID. Yes. And you're worried that this is going away, this kind of dream job or this dream opportunity. You genuinely thought was over? Yes. Yeah.

This is before we started, clearly. Yeah, I got COVID. lost smell and taste and, you know, I kind of discovered it because hot sauce might as well have been toothpaste, really, at the time. And everyone in the family got it at the same time. And, you know, it gave me brain fog and fatigue and, you know, more than normal, I guess. But, you know, we persevered, got through it. And we kept that on the down low in case, you know, some insurance carriers, boss upstairs or something, went, okay, well, pull the plug on that. Because, you know, things that's happened plenty of times before for lesser reasons in my experience.

And it turned out to be an advantage in the end because I was sort of quasi-battle tested already. And, you know, I don't know if the science upholds this, but, you know, I already took my lumps. And so I was kind of clear. And because of the requirements of PPE, which I couldn't wear as Charlie, whereas everyone else, of course, had to, with the exceptions of being on camera, then we were, I was somehow, you know, immune to it. And not exactly, I had immunity from wearing that stuff so I could still do the work. And then the vaccines came out after we finished and people started, you know, bouncing back the way we all know we did. Yeah, so you couldn't get the mask on over the prosthetics and all of those things. How did you approach that side of it, the four hours, I think it was?

Was that every day, four hours? Yeah, every day. For 40 days or something like that? Between 35, 40 days, something. Yeah. So as an actor, you've done this your entire life. You prepare for a scene, you sit down and you do it. How do you get into that character while you're undergoing four hours of makeup and prosthetics every day?

Well, I did take naps. We were always the first ones in and the last to leave. Adrian Moreau gets the game ball for that. but he's our makeup prosthetics designer. And it's really just a matter of being patient because I love the craft of filmmaking. I love every department's work. And Darren brings together really wonderful collaborators,

people who were, you know, top-shelf talent who otherwise could have been off doing, I don't know, a Star Wars movie or something like that but chose to be here because of the intimate nature of it that you could concentrate on something. So everyone had this focus that I'm just, again, I'm like I'm wondering if it'll ever be replicated in this way. I don't know if it can be. But look, so I mean, like I say, I love the process of filmmaking and the makeup is no exception because I couldn't be, I couldn't get together to have a life cast done where you pour the goop on your face and make a mold.

And from that sculpt and create appliances, it was all done with a scan that went to a virtual model that Adrian designed Charlie's body with exactitude that had complete control over the fingers, the size of the pores, the wrinkles. anomalies in the skin, well, everything. And, I mean, I, again, I keep harping on this. I mean, I love this process, but as he explains, it's kind of like Charlie became almost a texture map that he could be so specific with. And that's very important considering that if the makeup in any way takes the audience out of this first second,

if they feel that their suspension of belief has been challenged, then there's no way. you're going to win him back. If you see the dotted lines of the construction lines of the work, then he has failed. His approach. And we never did. This is entirely an actor in makeup with maybe a light curative of digital just to bring out, you know, to make a bit of the shirt settle down that was doing its own thing that day. But apart from that, no, it was a practical costume and it was cumbersome appropriately. Charlie's body is hundreds and hundreds of pounds.

And to replicate that, the hard and fast rule was physics and gravity must be obeyed in a way that we have not seen in films previously using actors in waking costumes. So often actors of size that are created for the screen are... So often actors are put in costumes that make them service some kind of mean joke or to vilify them or to cast some kind of aspersion on them. And this is not that. And I was comforted to know that the risk that I took to play this part was worth it, knowing how strongly the Obesity Action Coalition,

who are an advocacy group supporting tens of thousands of people, with the mission statement to end the bias towards those who are obese, felt that with their collaboration to give notes about the story, Charlie's body, and other sensitivities that we had to observe, were all fulfilled. And in the end, the nicest thing that I could have ever heard and didn't anticipate was that they hold the belief that this character, Charlie, could save lives. It could change the way people really feel about how their formerly held beliefs and prejudices

that they took into the theater with them have been reoriented. And by stories end, and this is a testament to Sam Hunter, the writer, hearts and minds are being changed. And it's not a public service message or anything like that, you know, but it's a film. It's an entertainment. It's there to dramatize. It's there to enlighten. It's there to challenge.

And ultimately, I think it's a story that has a... a real resonating impact with people in a way from an emotional standpoint that they might not even understand the reasons why they feel moved about what it is that they've seen. And gosh, I could go on and on, but I feel like I'm really happy about the result of the creative element that comes. And I think the reason for that is probably is because, as you've said, it's not really a story about Charlie's obesity. It's a story about his humanity. It's a story about his optimism in many ways, why he has optimism given his circumstances about, as you say, his redemption. We're seeing him, even in his isolation, as a full person, as a full human being who's trying to get it right

even at the end, like so many of us are. Was that important to you to let that optimism and that humanity shine through? When I first read this, it, seemed to me like I know this man or he's a composite and amalgamation of people I've known in my life and instructors, teachers, mentors, people I've admired for their intellect and their zest and their love of language. And because Charlie's a writing teacher who works from home with his laptop with a camera turned off for... the complicated reason being about hiding shame from himself, from those who see him, and we understand why as the story goes along, why that's important when he finally does reveal himself.

Hey guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Brendan Fraser right after the break. Welcome back now more of my conversation with Brendan Frazier. I think I was telling you before we started, you're talking about him being a composite. I think that's just so true because obesity in some ways could be a stand-in for anything that causes somebody to feel shame or isolation or like they don't belong in the world outside that door. Do you think the resonance of this movie is because people are seeing something having nothing to do maybe with Charlie specifically, but having to do with something in their own lives

or in someone's life they love that resembles that in some way? I agree. And I'd add that I think that the story speaks to people in a way that they weren't anticipating. It strikes a chord in that everything that's exchanged and spoken about seems to be something that we always felt that we wish we could have said in similar situations or would have said. or if only it had been said. And it's all in one place and at one time in a simple enough setting of a man in his living room whose mobility keeps him on his, immobility keeps him on his couch,

who's just trying to speak to his daughter and take to his feet if he can to inform his very salvation. The circumstances are really, stakes are really high and very ordinary at the same time. It's a story that you don't, it's a story that plays out behind a closed door. And one that plays out all over the country, the world even. And we wouldn't know about this necessarily without opening that door and going into his world. and accepting the invitation to do that is the first step to experiencing this movie. Everyone's going to bring a different understanding to a piece of cinema, and it's our job to change that or attempt to recreate a world that will inform their thinking in a new way.

I had that very thought, how many Charlies are in my apartment building in New York City or up the street here, as you say, they're everywhere. Well, we'll be looking out for them for sure. We might not know, considering that it's stigmatized to the extent that there are those who have to watch after them who are family members, friends, health care workers, et cetera. And very often their frustration they feel is that they're put in a compromising position because they become these de facto enablers for them. And it gets complex, to say the least. And I mean, for that, ultimately, what I've learned is the answer is, you must be kind. Empathy is the order of the day, no matter what. Because there can be real damage done just by the way that we speak to one another.

And I know this to be true from having spoken to people who've lived with obesity. if they don't already and have to, who gave me their life story, their testimonial. And I noticed that each of them in their own way had someone early in their life who spoke to them harshly criticized them or recriminating. And that stayed with them. And it set off a chain reaction and set a cycle and a pattern of substance abuse or gambling or addiction or, or, or, In Charlie's case, medicating with food,

self-medicating with food. And it's all born of essentially just being unkind to a child. And it does, there are real life health circumstances that can be avoided by just not doing that. It seems simple enough because we, our culture has common, vernacular and terminology that I think we can retire. There are ways that we don't need to speak about one another in a way that's harmful

because it does do real harm. I think this is a film that challenges people to ask themselves those thorny questions about what their firmly held beliefs are and then challenge them and open their hearts a little bit more to understanding what the results of those firmly held beliefs can result in. And this movie does that. You see the humanity, the fears, the anxieties, all of that. It's a real person behind that door.

You never could have imagined, Brendan, when you stepped into this project, what was going to come afterward. The reception you've received for it, maybe starting at the Venice Film Festival in September and forward to the Academy Award nomination. What has it been like for you to feel this, to feel this reception, this reaction to your work? Wow. Gratifying, humbling. It feels good. It feels like I have a responsibility. I wasn't anticipating that I feel I have now. It feels like reward enough, independent of the brass ring. Like, if this is as far as it went, I'm good.

Because I know that we've made a film that is resonant. And it will be one that you can refer back to again and again and again as time goes on. And it will be less of a movie that's about being in competition. It would be something that people will feel it's a milestone in their lives, Have you seen the whale? No, well, you need to. And then judge that book by its cover. That's the gratification I feel mostly.

I mean, you can make a movie that you feel is good and the director feels is good, but you just don't know how the public is going to react. When was the first time you felt, okay, we are reaching people? We have moved people with this film. In Venice, at that screening, that was the first time I'd seen it with an audience. I'd seen it once before then, alone.

And I needed to gather myself at the end of it, too, and I'm the guy in the movie. That was the famous six-minute standing ovation. Honestly, Willie, I think it depends on who's holding the stopwatch. If it's an Italian stopwatch, they're like, it's eight minutes. No, it's a 25 minute. So, look, I'm just glad people were on their feet. Let's go with six. That's good.

Okay, that seems fair. I'll take six. It's not seven. It's not five. Whatever it was, it was a long time to stand and clap. Your arms would get tired. You clap, your hands get itchy. Like, yeah.

But you can see in that moment, that video went all over the internet, how overcome you were by the reception. I did feel like, yeah, I'm not going to keep it together. And then Darren goes, take a bow. I'm almost out the door. We're going to go get some cold a drink, you know? And he's like, no. And then I was looking at my... shoelaces I'm about thinking wow you really tied your shoelaces really well

today Brendan oh the people are still here oh they're still Italian they're still crying there's many many of them and we've got five more minutes yeah wave to nice people you don't know what to do with yourself at some point no you don't I what to do um I stay in stay in your stay in your boots stay in the moment I'm I'm learning um because That's the reward I think is most meaningful to me. Stick around for more of my conversation with Brendan Frazier right after a quick break. Welcome back now to the rest of my conversation with Brendan Frazier. You're just talking about how nice it's been to have people say we're happy to see Brendan Frazier.

That's nice. I'm grateful. I've never been that far away. But I did step out of the spotlight for a spell there to sort some things out in my life and to take stock of who I am, where I'm going, and what my aspirations are. And I've learned that it's going to do me good to work smart instead of work hard. as another birthday rolls by. And I also have learned that I'm a lot more comfortable in my own skin, a lot more at home. So for that, I feel so much more receptive and have gratitude for the positive and have gratitude for the positive attention that I'm receiving at this time. It's really humbling. When you say you're more comfortable in your own skin now, what did it take to get you there?

That time away? Yeah. It took that. It took feeling like I don't have anything to prove. And it also made me feel like for me, for me, currency is confidence. And I didn't always have that. And, you know, it ebbs and flows. But feeling like I'm at home and myself makes me have a stronger sense of ownership over the work I've done and what I'm capable of and what I want to do.

So does that mean you were not as comfortable when you were on that great run right at the beginning of your career about knowing who you were, your place in the world and your place in Hollywood? I was 30 something years ago. I mean, I was just glad to have a job in those days. I mean, any actor's glad to have a job. Just tell me an actor who's not grateful, and I'll show you a liar. But at that time, it was a breakneck pace. I was really out of the gate early. There were a lot of films I was doing that were over laughing with one another.

I was sometimes in competition on opening weekends with my own. project because of release dates, you know, something that I had nothing to do with or any understanding about. But I knew that I was also kind of on a merry-go-round. I wanted the music to stop, you know, it can get to be a bit much. And then you get off the merry-go-round, and you're wondering, wow, gee, it's quiet around here. Maybe I should get back to work. When you went from Seattle down to L.A., I think it was your mom's Chevy Spectrum, if I have the make and model, correct? Correct. 1991.

Where did that idea come from? You had sort of an itinerant childhood. The idea I mean to become an actor and to chase it the way you did. Well, at that time, I just completed four years at Cornish College. I had a BFA in my back pocket, a lot of hope and moxie and no small men. measure of just kind of blind faith. And the plan was to go to grad school in Texas. I had a graduate degree scholarship to take up.

And so I thought, well, I'll just drive through California and see if I can make a few bucks on the way, pay off my student loans before I continue on and go study for no. other four years. And once I arrived in Hollywood, things happened pretty quickly in a snowballing kind of effect. And I came to the realization that, hey, what better way to learn about how to do this job than to actually be doing it? So I didn't go to grad school, needless to say. And I guess I planted my flag and started my flag and started. started there.

But it all happened pretty suddenly. Yeah, I mean, you came out really fast from the time you got there, right? And see, oh, man, school ties on and on and on. Was that an exciting, thrilling time to have not... I mean, some people would go to Hollywood. It takes them 10 years. They could do a few commercials and they... I mean, you got thrown right into it.

I was also kind of ignorant, too. I mean, not that I thought this happens for everyone, but I felt like... I felt like I was just doing what I was doing at that. time at the pace that I was asked to and I had a real you know make hey well the sun shines kind of outlook I didn't have much of a social life I wasn't interested in you know a whole party scene or anything like that because I had to be ready for work in the morning and that was my work ethic really and

that and I think a healthy dose of dumb luck to Never underestimate the power of dumb luck. Don't you think you make your luck a little bit? You do well enough in a few movies and then you get people say, we like this guy. As I grow older, yes, I think you do. You make your luck, but that comes from being prepared and persistent too. I think there's not a science to it, but there's a method.

Yeah, for sure, for sure. How did you deal, Brendan, with the fame side of it when the mummy blows up and then there's a sequel and another sequel in george of the jungle and your household name and everybody knows your face when you walk down the street did you adapt to that well or was that jarring for you i honestly felt like it was about someone else in my own way i i i um i didn't feel like i was you know playing a character of myself in my own life but i felt like it's just i'm just i'm brend like i you know i'm i don't i don't know if i i don't know if i I can live up to the aspirations that others would ascribe to me, so it just made more sense

to just do what I knew how to do and just be myself. I didn't ever find a real need or hunger or craving for more and more and, you know, for lack of a better term, like to be famous. oftentimes that's something that's just kind of got in the way to tell you the truth for me. And as a young man, you do think about things like loss of anonymity, people's perception of you being such that they feel they already know you before they've met you. And that's for better or worse, but it did teach me to remember. remember what my Canadian parents and grandfather told them was no matter where you go,

someone's going to know you, someone's going to know you. I don't know if that was a warning or a projection, but it did let me know that we're all just people after it all. And I think it gave me a stronger sense of self-ownership. at that time of time my life when I needed it. Do you think part of the reason that you did, as you said, step away a little bit maybe from that limelight was a reaction to that, that you wanted to keep some bit of yourself, that you wanted to have some life that wasn't connected or related to this character that had been created in the public? Yeah, look, I had to stand down for a host of other reasons. they're really apparent to everybody who's known anything about me in the last five years or so.

And, you know, I've been quite forthcoming about what those issues and challenges were. I can talk about them if you want, but, you know, I don't know how to tell you anything, like, new. The physical stuff was one piece of surgeries. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I just, that's a combination of getting banged up on the job and having some predisposition from being a tall guy and a few injuries along the way. and that and a mindset of I better be earning this. And I've learned that you can't literally throw yourself into the job in a way that can harm you or make you feel like you're, again, working harder than you need to earn your keep.

It wasn't a death of a thousand cuts, but it compounded to a point where, it compounded to a point where I found myself in physical pain that I had been ignoring for a number of years kind of like the same way that you would ignore or your brain tunes out a smoke alarm, you know? Once it gets turned off, you're like, wow, I didn't know. You're just getting, you know, the thorn taken out of your paw. Like, wow, that's so much better.

And once I was able to do that, then I realized how much more careful. I need to be in going forward. And then there was a mental health side of it as well. Is that fair to say that you just needed to decompress? That's a byproduct. Right. Of physical pain that happens.

And in my instance, not for everyone. I just knew that I needed to take care of the personal issues and feelings that I had that I needed to validate. and I worked with plenty of professionals. I reached out to friends and family in a way that was meaningful that I didn't know. I didn't know that you could ask for help. I didn't know. I didn't know. It sounds crazy, but...

No, you're not alone in that, by the way. A lot of people don't know that. I didn't know until it did. Yeah. And after that, I felt like, well, that was almost too easy. Like, why didn't I do that sooner? And once I was able to navigate that path, not feeling like I was alone, then things started to fall into place for me a little bit more. Then I would give myself a break.

Then I would allow myself to not have to have this high standard all the time. It's all right to just feel like we're stumbling along here, trying to get through this the best way. way that we can and perfection is really just an ideal and I felt liberated once I took the pressure off myself so then at some point in that process you decide you're ready to get back into the business to get back into movies yeah how long did that take you to get to that place where you said okay I think I'm centered grounded I'm ready to dive back in the thing is I was always doing something yeah I mean I may not have been as prominently featured in a big

10-pole movie, but I had to do something to keep myself busy, so I would be involved in, I don't know, a limited series production or something like that. And I never

thought the only way to be back is to do something exclaims, I am here. I wanted to be a part of a story that I cared about. It doesn't mean I didn't care about what I was doing before, but at one, I felt so moved by the whale that I knew when I read it. Like, I know this guy. I feel like I've met him.

And I also feel like I want to know him. I care about him. And it's an unlikely friendship relationship that I had with this character. And I know that sounds a little woo-woo, but when we finished doing this, when I finished doing this, I had an emotional relationship. response that I was not prepared for. I mean, I felt a sense of gratitude and also at the same time loss for having been on the journey that he goes on. And I always feel like I have to speak delicately or tiptoe around this part of the conversation because, you know, I don't want to spoil a movie for anyone, but the man goes through some serious emotional issues. And

He does achieve a state of grace that comes with reconnecting with his daughter that is profound. And the emotional byproduct of that, doing this piece, made me feel so many things about my own life in ways that I wasn't necessarily anticipating or was prepared for. I think I felt like for the first time that I was being as close to who I am authentically without feeling I needed to fabricate something to give a performance. And I also felt like everything I had to offer is what I gave because it was the time of COVID. there might not be a tomorrow in a mindset. It's existential crisis that we're all going through. And it's a privilege to be invited to come and do this kind of work anyway.

And it's easy to say that. But for the first time, I really felt it in my bones to be a part of this. And I also felt like after I had finished the film and saw how amazing everyone in this cast is, that if, you know, for whatever reason, the audience of this movie doesn't get it or they don't like it or it's not for them or they disagree with it, I respect all of that. I don't necessarily agree with it,

but I respect all of that. I felt like I did everything I could because I'm out of moves. I don't know how to do my job any differently than what I did. And that felt, a little bit vulnerable and risky at the same time, but it also made me feel like, there it is. Have a look. I got, I got nothing to fabricate to bring to this project. It has to be incredibly gratifying to put yourself out there the best you have and to get this kind of reception. I agree. I agree. It does. It, it, um,

So it's a lovely reception that I'm receiving, but I'd be remiss if we didn't acknowledge that there are those who don't feel as receptive towards this project, as there are those who there are more who do than there are those who disagree with it. And I know that everyone is going to bring their own experience of life to a project, a film when they walk in the door. and if it coincides with their worldview, then it's acceptable. If it does not coincide with their worldview and it should be condemned, is something that I just don't agree with because in art, you should take risks,

you should go towards the danger, you should find the ways to get the most value from a story by making the choices and doing the projects that will raise eyebrows, that will challenge people's preconceived notions and hopefully, hopefully give them a new way of looking at something that they might not have appreciated before they walked in the door. I know you're not fond of the comeback narrative that seems to have taken hold.

I'm okay with it. Well, maybe it's not accurate. Maybe a bit and bad or sad that it doesn't feel like it come back to you, even if it feels that way to some of your fans. Fair enough, yeah. To the extent there was time away and you came back, do you feel like that was of your own choosing entirely, or did you feel in some way that Hollywood had maybe moved on from you?

Well, maybe both. Hollywood's like a heat-seeking missile. It finds that signature and goes after the source. And if that signature is not there, it finds the one that is. And in some ways, I'd say we take turns in who is the source. And you're hot and you're not and you have attention and you don't for all manner of reasons. But one of the reasons that may have been ascribed to that is, well, several. Like I may have just become oversaturated in some way too prevalent.

Our generation came of age that went from being a little kid into growing into an adult. and their sensibilities change. And now those kids who are adults now have kids of their own. And it's immensely gratifying to feel like an old man, but at the same time I can appreciate being told that I was a strong part of a generation's cultural childhood. That feels really good to me in a way that I do. couldn't have appreciated until I had grown older.

So to the extent you felt maybe Hollywood was pushing back against you or moving on from you, was that hard to grapple with? Like, how do I get back in the game? Well, yeah. I mean, it's always going to be, it's always going to take sticking your neck out and taking risks, like I said. And I think the best way to do that is to let the proof be in the work. and not feel like I had to make a lot of noise to draw attention to myself.

I don't know if I'd be seeing this prenaissance, as it's being called. I'm glad you used that term because I was not going to use it. I just get it out of the way. I mean, on the one hand, it's funny, but then I'm also hearing, like, you know, everybody else is having a renaissance ending on their name too. I think there was a maconaisance. Maconnasence. Something like that, right?

A willysons. I'm hoping for one. We all have to look at the ceilings to see, you know, which parts of our life are painted up there and foreshortening. Is it kind of crazy that? This has taken on a life of its own, this pop culture moment that you seem to be having. The GQ article was like the most clicked thing in the history of the magazine. There's something about you and people happy to see you again.

That's separate even from the whale. It's more about you, I think. They're happy to see you. I'm not sure I know the answer to that. I'm grateful for whatever it is. I hope I'm worthy of it. Is it what it makes me think? I know you've said you've got all the gratification you need around the whale,

and I understand that. But what would it mean to you to win an Academy Award? It would be the fulfillment of a dared hope and aspiration that I had from an early age of appreciating how meaningful storytelling can be when it's on a screen and brought to the world.

In short, it would be like a dream come true before you even knew to have the dream. Well said. I don't know how to say it any other way. Good luck to you, man. Thanks. Thanks. I appreciate it, Willie.

My big thanks to Brendan for a great conversation and for opening up his home so graciously to us. You can see the whale if you haven't already streaming on a number of outlets. My thanks to all of you for listening again this week. If you want to hear more of these conversations every week, be sure to click follow so you never miss an episode. And don't forget to tune in to Sunday today every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist.

We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit Down Pott.