Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Chris Pine

Episode Date: May 5, 2024

On this week's episode, Willie sits down with Chris Pine. They get together to talk about a career that has taken him from "Star Trek" to "Wonder Woman", and now, the new film he wrote, directed, and stars in: "Poolman".  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks, as always, for clicking and listening along. Got another great one for you this week with Chris Pine broke out as a huge star playing Captain Kirk in three Blockbuster Star Trek movies. You probably saw him as Steve Trevor in the Wonder Woman movies, also massive hits, also played Jack Ryan, received big critical acclaim for his role in Heller High Water, playing alongside Jeff Bridges a few years ago. And now he's out with a passion project. The most personal movie he's ever made, it's called Pool Man. Why do I say it's personal? Well, he dreamed it up, he wrote it, he cast it, he produced it, he directed it, and he stars in it. I'll let him explain to you the main character

named Darren, which is grounded, it turns out. I didn't quite understand or realize this, grounded in young Chris Pine. So what he says here, and you'll hear it in a minute, is a lot of people see him and know him now as this leading man, this extrovert, this movie star, and boy, was he not that way growing up all the way up through college. So he said it's kind of a funny twist that he's become a film actor in such a public job given the way he is naturally, which is a little bit more reserved. Great conversation, really thoughtful, smart guy. He's so excited about this project. He's done everything he can do in Hollywood, starred in all those big movies, gotten the raves for his performances and some smaller movies, and now this one is just his baby.

Great cast, Danny DeVito's in it, Jennifer Jason Lee's in it, Annette Benning is in it, a small movie. They shot it in 21 days for, I think he says, seven million bucks or something like that, which by Hollywood standards is not much. They had to work fast, and he said he loved the pace. It was kind of like being at theater camp. They'd huddle up. All right, that was good. let's go on to the next scene. So you can tell, you'll listen, you'll hear the passion he has about this film. Great guy, too, I have to say, you'll hear his sense of humor, great stories in here. Comes from a pair of actors.

His parents, in fact, his father starred on the hit 1980 series, Chips, was not Poncher John. He was the sergeant. So he was an actor. Chris's mom also was an actor, but not big movie stars like Chris. So he talks about how it was kind of a grind in their house when he was. growing up. So I will be quiet. Sit back, relax, and enjoy right now Chris Pine on the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Chris, thanks for doing this, man. Thank you so much for having it. Good to see. I'm so happy for you because I just saw Fullman and people are going to love this. I'm curious for you what it

feels like, maybe different than other movies to be sitting here a few days out from the world meeting your baby. And by that, I mean, you wrote it, directed. Willie is terrifying. It's absolutely terrifying. It's, uh, uh, I don't have kids, but I can imagine it's like holding your child's hand going all the way up to the preschool gates as they go off to, to greet the world and all of their, their wildness. No, it's great fun. I mean, look, I wrote it, you know, in a time of COVID quarantine when I think all of us were feeling a bit alone and, and it brought up my own feelings of aloneness and, and kind of, you know, meditating on my experiences with that and I was a very kind of scared kid and fearful and

would oftentimes feel very alone even in rooms full of people and so that really is the central focus of the story but then instead of kind of going out it and making it some sort of sad sack story I wanted to go in the opposite direction and I thought well you know I love screwball comedy and and this is a story about a pullman detective in LA so there's like shades of Chinatown and I put all of those together and this is what came out but really the the impetus of it was to look at even something for at least for Darren you know he's like investigating what he's all about and what he's all about turns out to be there's some sad stuff there but with as much joy and delight and kind of grace as possible, bumbling grace, but grace nonetheless.

I think people have seen the posters around and they've seen the press and they're like, is that Chris Pine? Okay, that's Chris Pine. What is he up to? Yeah. So how do you explain what this film is to people? Well, it's funny. Sometimes I think I've made this film for approximately 15 and a half people and they're all my

closest friends because I think 16 and a half a half a third because this in many ways is closer to me than anything else I've played you know I think when I started getting cast as the leading man and the handsome guy in these films it was such a joke to me and so deeply ironic so kind of offensive that I would be like me you know so this character of the innocent who's not the coolest guy in the world and is not sharp on dates and is kind of terrified of girls speaks more to this part of me this kind of this child in me this this this you know this teenager and so I think my friends concede a bit more so the way that I explain it you know people have in the press release I think we say it's an ode to Los Angeles and in many ways

it is an ode to Los Angeles a love letter but really ultimately it's an ode to this part of myself I've carried with me always, which is this, this awkward boy that I've felt for, you know, so long. And it's, it's me, um, giving him the hero's journey instead of the guys I've been tasked with playing who are more fully formed and cooler. I'm just, just, it's kind of sick of playing cool guy. Um, in this, you know, there's an archetype to the character I played Darren. We've seen it all the way from Buster Keaton and Peter Sellers played it beautifully in being there and there's a bit of Fisher King in there, the wildness of imagination. And that really felt appealing to me and was a character that I, that really came out of me quite naturally.

It's funny, I'm thinking of people watching this and going, what is Chris Pine talking about, that he was awkward and young? Because really what they know is you as, Steve Trevor or Jim Ryan or all these leading men. So who was that kid before we met this movie star? Who's the guy you're talking about? Well, I was a very sensitive child. I'm still a pretty sensitive guy. Definitely had social anxiety for many years and still kind of deal with that.

I think I classify myself more probably as an introvert than as an extrovert, which may be startling for people to hear given the choice of my profession. And yeah, I was just, you know, it was an awkward kid, had bad skin, had to rely on my brains and making people laugh more than anything else. You know, a lot of things that I have, that as I've gotten older, I have such a deep appreciation for, that's a skill set that I wouldn't have had if I didn't feel that way, you know. So I guess that's what I'm saying is when I started in my beginning of my career

getting cast in these parts is the print, literally the prince. The sense of being a fraud was so deep that is kind of waned over time just by virtue of time. And I'm kind of in on the joke now, but I feel much more authentically myself and a character like Darren Berman. And I think really what I've, I've, I think exactly to what you said is like, people see it, they're like, what the hell is Chris Pine doing? And it's been very difficult for me to, to the cognitive dissonance of for me looking at

that, it seems so natural, you know, it's like me and my buddies playing around. In many ways, I mean, to say that Darren's an outsider sort of understates, his life. But in many ways, you relate to that because you were an outsider. Yeah, I know I deeply relate to it. Yeah, I just have distinct memories of not feeling like one of the in-crow. Going back as far as I remember. So this story, write about what you know, is writing about a Los Angeles that I know,

writing about places that I know, Langer's Deli, Pyneberger. bemoaning the destruction of the Garden of Ala on Crescent Heights and Sonset Boulevard, which is this very famous hotel that my parents would always tell me about when we drove up to the canyon. These are all parts of my history. But also in terms of the community that I've centered in this are all of these Hollywood Boulevard of Dream adjacent folks. They've either been there or had a taste of it or still want to taste of it. my character is making a documentary

and his best friend is an older director who used to make B movies at Paramount in the 80s and then has it worked for 30 years and is still waiting for his agent to call and my girlfriend used to be an actress but is now a Pilates instructor but is thinking of dying her hair to get new headshots. So there's the sense of giving these people

finally their starring role in the sense that the whole movie in some ways is this creation of this one outsider putting all of his friends finally at the center of the spotlight. So you, as I mentioned, you wrote this, you co-wrote it, produced, directed, you star in it. Is this something you've been thinking about for a long time? I'm ready to step away from these huge movies that I've had so much success doing and do something a little more intimate that's mine, did you want to write? Did you want to direct?

I can't say that I consciously had any of those thoughts. This really began as nothing more than like two pebbles in a pond, and it was this pool man, an occupation, and a title for the film, and the character named Darren Berman. And they just, as they collided, just made me smile. And the pebbles got dropped in my brain, and two years went by, and they were still caraming down in my neural network. And I had some time on my hands as we all did when COVID and quarantine hit,

and it just started to come out. You know, I started writing, and the voice came through me, and the visuals came through me. And I would say on two fronts, what I found is that I tend to be a pretty analytical human and really rely on this, probably so I don't have to feel so much

because I am sensitive. And I think if I look at it now, I can see that really the exercise of a lot of it was what would it be like to have an artistic experience where you, yes, relied on the analysis of your brain to get you through structure and composition and narrative and all that, but really relying on the feeling of it and this idea of instinct and this idea of creative instinct

and not letting the sensor do so much work. So that's one thing that I found appealing. And then the second is in preparing for this and watching a lot of films and watching a lot of the silent films, particularly Buster Keaton and Charlie Chaplin and seeing like, my God, these artists, that is their work. They wrote it. They directed it. They cut it. They production design it. They came up with their characters.

They dressed their characters. It is a complete and utter composition on which they have their imprimatur, you know? And there's something really satisfying after a career of 20 years where you're a hired hand to be like, no, this is my. work you know it's deeply vulnerable and it's been terrifying I would say a lot of the time especially after came out to TIF and now onto the world but it's been deeply gratifying you know deeply gratifying yeah it's yours it's yours yeah I can own all of it that is where the vulnerability comes in I would imagine it's the most akin to being a comedian on stage or something you know where it's like

can't hide behind it because an actor you can hide my god you know marketing, editing, writing, directing. But the point the movie comes out, your two movies down the road anyway, so, you know. But this is a different experience, for sure. Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Chris Pine right after the break. Welcome back. Now more of my conversation with Chris Pine.

Is the story true, Chris, that those pebbles started to drop when you were sitting on set of Wonder Woman with Patty Jenkins, kind of bouncing some things off of her to see what? Well, it's less bouncing and more like, you know, as an actor on a film set, or really on a television set, it doesn't matter. You're working 12 or 15 hour days, and the majority of that time, call it 60, 65%, 70% is waiting. You're waiting for people to set up so you can go do these little brief spurts of work. So you're doing anything you can to amuse yourself, you're studying languages, you're doing crossword puzzle.

you were whatever you're doing. And so I is like a court gesture, firstly because I love seeing gal and Patty laugh because they both have great laughs. I just like to amuse them and I'm coming up with bits and this was one of the things that came out of me. I was like, oh, that seems a little bit more gold

and then the other that I was coming out with. And yeah, but it wasn't, there was nothing deeply conscious about the investigation. You weren't pitching an idea. It's over just something you were kind of riffing on. So you've got an idea and a script, and then you've got to go cast the thing. And my God, did you land some incredible actors?

And like you were saying earlier before we started, to come and kind of play in a theater almost environment. Yeah, it's the fun thing. This was a truly independent film. We ultimately had about seven and a half to make it, and we shot on film in Los Angeles over 21 days. at the height of summer, the height of COVID. So a lot of stuff working against getting A-list actors

don't want to come out and play. We sent it to Danny, and I'd known Danny kind of, from afar, his kids went to the same high school I did, and were a couple years younger than me. But so I knew of him and was around him a bit. And I had known Annette through Warren and a little bit socially, socially, didn't know Jennifer at all. And I used my typewriter and typed up these letters to them because I love looking at

there's a great book called Letters of Note. And it's just all these old letters written on beautiful stationery as one did back in the day. And it would usually have like a header, either your name or your location. And then I just like, I love the formality of it feels it speaks to such a different time. And I wanted them to know that there's something very easy about it. an email or a text or a phone call or whatever and I was like no I want them to you know so I typed up this letter and I sent it off in the in the snail mail and with a copy of the script because back

in the day you get these scripts with your like agency letterhead on it just felt all very formal and cool you know and I was lucky I was really lucky they responded right away and and we you know we lost funding at one time and so many months went by and I thought I was going to lose them and then finally everything got to coalesced magically as it seems to do an independent filmmaking and we were off to the races. I'm so glad it did, and they love those letters, by the way. I was reading some interviews where they said,

did he type this? Yeah. He got their attention at the very least. Yeah, I love a typewriter. I just, there's something about the, architecturally I find them gorgeous. Tom Hanks, I had a little brief talk with him about it because he's obviously a big fan and collector of him,

but they're pieces of art. They're like, I don't know. know, they're gorgeous, heavy pieces of crafted material, and I love the sound of them and the key strokes. And it factors into the movie. You won't give up. Yeah, exactly. Right. There's a cool element in the film. I was reading some of the ways you described the movie, and I realized it helped me sort of articulate what I was feeling while watching it, which is there are moments of humor, and it's tragic in some ways about lives that maybe didn't turn out the way they hoped they would, and that's so relatable to almost everyone, isn't it?

So I guess the question is, what is this movie about to you? Is it about love? Is it about family? It's about love and family, and it's about coming to terms with, again, I lead with the silly, and I lead with screwball comedy for the most part. And they're Cohen-esque and Lynchian and Malik and all these ashby. I threw a lot of sauce and pepper into this. I figured if I was going to make one movie,

I may as well just try it all. I probably tried too much, but that's part of the joy of it for me, and hopefully if you dig the wavelength of the film, what you'll dig. For me, it's about the fundamental idea that in order to fully know how to love, you have to know how to love yourself.

And again, I decided not to make a Schmaltz film. I just decided to go all the way the other direction. And this is really a man who's a detective pool man who goes on this search for the corruption that's happening at city council that does it or not involve water, when in fact really the journey was all about him finding out the deepest parts about himself in order to have a cathartic moment, individuate become fully whole so that he can now go on and know how to be actually relational. I mean, a lot of the film is dense with people talking and it's chaotic and reminds me very much of what it was. like growing up when you're just kind of looking up it at the world and it's just noise a lot of it and the music of it I really wanted to have that kind of complexity in that that David O'Russell

family neurosis quality to it that really has then one silent capsule of the scene where the antagonist protagonists are like two eight-year-old boys on a schoolyard apologizing to one another so they have a real actual moment of like oh my god This is what it's like to be. This is being human. So that's what it's about. So ultimately it is about family. It's about joy.

It's about it's about forgiving the parents that you had in order to, in order to accept the parents you do have. You know, it's about a lot of stuff, but it's ultimately a giggle. Thinking about that one beautiful scene in the dressing room with Blanche. Right. That's such a beautiful human moment. Right, and it's supposed to be written as if it were an eight-year-old. It's like, I often think the whole film is written from the perspective and even directed from the perspective of the main character, Darren.

It's like this little tableau diorama of his vision of what L.A. looks like because there really is no time and place to it. It's here now. It's maybe the past. There are no cell phones, but they... Yeah. and this is a vision of what it would be like is if you were, you know, when I was writing the film,

I was watching a lot of dating on the spectrum, I was like, oh my God, Darren in the scene when he's having this date with this beautiful woman in this noir date, because she's speaking in all the subtleties of noir speak, you have this deeply literal person and this deeply non-literal person, And they're like two ships in the night.

They don't have any, you know, they don't have any, they're not speaking the same language. So coming around full circle is that then that is almost like an interaction where his mother had taught him how this is what you do. You say, can I ask your forgiveness? And someone says, yes, you can. And I'm sorry too. Can I ask your forgiveness?

And it's like the simplicity and earnest purity of that, spoke to me you know you mentioned the Cohen brothers forgive me from perhaps stating the obvious did I see some of the dude and Darren well you know we were worried about that I say worried look Lebowski is like you know one of my citizen Kane so it's like high praise if people think it has that quality but I think the really distinct difference is that while Lobowski is a deeply passive He rejects action at all costs and yet is forced to be inaction. Darren, the character I play is like all about action.

He's like deeply passionate. He's too passionate. He's too action-oriented. He just doesn't really know what to do or how to do it well. And he doesn't smoke pot. He doesn't drink. He drinks egg creams. I think, you know, from a character logical standpoint, they're deeply different.

But there are definitely a lot of similarities. And, you know, there's, there's dream sequences. There's weird stuff with lizards. There's, he's being stalked by an image of a tree. He's, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of, there's a lot there's a lot there. And Darren's leading the caper. Yeah. Kind of getting dragged along.

Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Stick around for more of my conversation with Chris Pine right after a quick break. Welcome back now to the rest of my conversation with Chris Pine. So you, you talked about this being kind of a love letter to L.A. you were talking a little bit about what kind of kid you were.

You also were the child of actors. And I was fascinated to see that that wasn't really on the radar for you to become an actor yourself, much until you got to college, really, to find a group of people to be with. I played sports in high school since I was five in basketball and baseball, and that was really my life. I didn't really, I loved reading, but I didn't really think about school. I did well in the school because I was taught to do well. but not out of any distinct passion to learn.

I just wanted to do well for my parents because that's what I was taught. And then realizing at 15 that I was a pretty mediocre baseball player and wasn't going to become Dodd Manningly. We all have that moment. We have that moment. And I went to a small private school,

then went to a giant university at Berkeley that was like 30,000 undergraduates and trying to just navigate socially that experiment was deeply difficult for a shy kid. and then finding an outlet with theater. So theater really came to me in this holistic way of providing me an outlet for my extraversion and for validation that I had gotten from sports. And that really was it for me.

I didn't have any other prospects coming out of college that I had legitimate prospects that I thought I could pursue. And for a kid, your parents are just going to work, right? You're not elevating what they do as like, oh, wow, they're actors. Yeah. On this huge show. And you're kind of like, you go to work. Well, it sucked quite frankly most of the time growing up in terms of the instability financially

that my family experience. You know, I get such a kick out of all this nepot talk, which my family laughs about because if they, if anyone had any look into my family growing up, that was the farthest thing that was happening, as if we were some sort of like. like wealthy cabal of entertainment folk that were like, and you and you. You're an entertainment science. It's like, come on. My father was on a really successful TV show until 1981.

I was born in 80, and then he was working on Bold and Beautiful and Young and the Restless, and my mom, they quit acting, but then, you know, gigs started not coming around so much and auditions Peter out, and then the real estate crash of 8788. It was, you know, a rough like 15 or so years. where I saw how absolutely brutal and fickle and just really hard the business can be. The business of acting when it's good. The life I've had is like it's ridiculous. It's 0.001% of the population of the actor community or the community at large.

so I'm very aware of the the rarity of my position because I know more often than not it's what my parents went through for a long time so none of that deterred you though did your parents see down and my parents saw me in a play in college

and my mother I remember this is not hyperbole said are you sure you don't want to become a lawyer and she didn't say it jokingly And I said no. And she took a moment. And she said, okay. Very seriously.

Because my mother, you know, that was, she knew what I was going up against, you know, potentially going up against. And so my parents have been nothing but supportive. Nothing but support. I was very blessed in terms of, I grew up in art, you know, showbiz, showbiz. I grew up in showbiz, you know.

And you remember the first gig, the episode of ER, how exciting that was? That wasn't my first. Well, I got Taft, I got Taft Heartlead. Taft Heartlead is right. You get your Screen Actors Guild card when you're a non-member. It was a Hardee's commercial, and then I did a Hineken commercial, and then I did ER, and I had a couple lines with Sally Field and more tyranny.

And then I did this episode of The Guardians. I did episode of American dreams. And then that same point, I started booking these things back to back in this very short span of time, and then I got Princess Diaries 2, and then I started working. So that felt like, was Princess Diaries 2

at the point at which you said, okay, this is my life, this is what I'm going to be now? I was driving on the freeway, and I was in my 1972 BMW 2002 that I had since I was 16. That had no air conditioning. It was the height of science.

and I was getting off at Magnolia. And I was on my little, like, Verizon, tiny little flip phone, my silver one. And I got a call for my agents that I booked a job. And I pulled over onto the side of the freeway. And they said, you're getting paid $65,000. And it was like they just told me I'd made $50 million. It was absolutely earth-shattering. earth shattering. And I kept for a long time, I had an overdraft of my bank account. It was like

$400 over. And I was going to have to ask my parents for money. And I got that 65 and I just remembered distinctly knowing in that moment that my life had changed somehow. Even though 60 at the end of the day turned out to be about $15,000 at last. They don't tell you that at all. I owe my parents rent money. But that is a, you know, it's a, you know, it's a, you know, it's a, it's a wild, it's a wild, it's a wild, I never forget that. That was the Prince's Diaries, check. Uh-huh. You never forget that moment.

Now it's all possible. I can do this for a living, right? Yeah, I mean, and now, you know, you get, I get checks sometimes that are like, are so, it's almost like monopoly money. I'm like, I can't even, this is how, like, how did this happen? I live this incredible life. I get to play, pretend. even the marketing stuff that we're doing for Pullman is like my buddies and I are coming up with

stuff that makes us laugh for a living. It's like this is real. So anytime I'm bitching complain and I love to complain, I really try to take a step off the gas pedal and remind myself that the luxury of what I get to do is profoundly cool. And remembering what my folks had to go through, true when, you know, that Maslow's hierarchy is real, and when you're worrying about the real shit, you know, time to play, you know, time to do stuff, sucks. So I'm living, you know, living a dream. You know, it's fun to watch from the outside is how proud they are of you. Whether they're on a red carpet or giving an interview. I mean, it truly feels like they're all rude for you. I think so, you know, look, my, I am, my great uncle was an actor on Broadway. My grandma

mother was an actress. My grandfather was a movie producer. My father was an actor. My mother was an actress. Her nanny was in vaudeville. My sister was an actress, then in production work for Tony Scott, then was a casting director. I mean, so I come from a line of like circus performers, basically. And in circus performing, it's a weird gig, and sometimes there's a lot of work, and there's, you know, money falling from the sky, and sometimes you're, you know, sometimes it's really not. So I think they're proud because they know how hard it is. And I don't have kids, so I don't know what that's like,

but I know I'm blessed to have, especially with my father that he's just the most gracious, loving, and he means it. You know, he couldn't be any more proud. And I feel it. They've watched the whole journey from the, shy kid, the introvert, all that. They probably can't believe it sometimes either, right?

Yeah, I guess. I mean, my mom will say, like, when I was a kid, my next door neighbor, Paul Lickman, his father had given him a fedora from the 20s, and I loved this fedora so much, because my favorite movie was Bugsie Malone and Indiana Jones.

So he gave me this fedora, and the moment he gave me the fedora, I was dressing up like, you know, Al Capone and doing bits from my parents and I love to dress up and do these bits. So it's definitely, it's definitely a bit of my blood. I do think, though, that I was a deeply, I could be very deeply introverted as a kid,

so I would imagine they would be, you know, partly stunned by what I've done with my life, you know. So how did you, as a guy who's, who was introverted, and maybe still is in some ways, when you become Captain Kirk and Jack Ryan and the Wonder Woman movies make you so known and such a star, how did you deal with this stuff off screen, which is everybody knows who you are

and everybody wants a piece of you. How do you manage that part of it? Well, I will say this. I have managed to retain a certain level of anonymity that is still kind of stunning to me. I don't people recognize me but it's never a big deal

and I have a very normal life I remember I saw Keanu Reeves on an airplane once he was in first in business like 30 people there's Keanu reeves like Keanu Reeves

reading a book no one's paying attention I have a feeling that it's partly an attitude of how you go about the thing if you are if you're if you have a security detail around you, yeah, people are going to be like, who's the schmuck, you know? And if you

don't, you don't. I think it's partly that. It's also partly because I do, I have made these big films, but I'm not a Tom Cruise. I'm not a big mega movie star. I've been in some movies, so I have some recognition, but I don't have. And I also have this kind of white man face that people are like, I got this yesterday. Someone was like, hey, Jim Carrey. Jim Carrey. I got Jim Carrey. In the past week, I've gotten Jim Carrey and Jeff Daniels. And I take them both with an incredible amount of pride, gentlemen.

Jeff Daniels, I can see because of the current look. Yeah. Yeah. I did get George Hamilton, and this is no offense to George. George Hamilton. There's no offense to George Hamilton. It's just the age disparity. It's like, it's a little rough for me.

My ego wasn't super happy with that one. Handsome man. But it's a very handsome man with an incredible tan. Great tan. He had a good head of hair. Great tan. I don't know who you're running into in the street, but they're not even close with some days. A lot, a lot of people, yeah. I mean, I had a whole encounter with this woman in Washington, D.C.,

and she was from a tourist. She was convinced I was Matt Damon. I didn't want to let her down. Did you go with it? Yes, I didn't want to let her down. She already, like, put down her bags, and I called her family over, and I was like, all right, let's do it. How deep did you get in? Were you talking about the boys?

Born identity and all your movies? I don't think there was a lot of verbal communication. I don't think the language is really there, but it was like whatever language she was speaking, Matt Damon pointing at me, and I was like, okay. And got the picture and everything? Sure, you know. You know, it's great.

She's going to get home and someone's going to finally tell her. I know. That's Chris Pine. Yeah, I know. Who? Yeah. Last thing, and I'll let you go. The directing for this movie.

Has it inspired you that that's something you'd like to do more of? Yeah, for sure. Sure, directing and acting at the same time. Precisely for what we discussed earlier is the waiting it. There's no waiting. I love that. It feels like what I want it to be, which is like, let's go make, make, make, make, make. And it's also too because it's the only time, yeah, I've been in this business a long time and to finally after so long be like, have complete ownership over a piece of art.

cinema and TV is not an actor's medium it's a director's and an editor's medium so you go in and you paint some pictures and then they collage it in whatever format they want and it's oftentimes deeply disappointing because it's not what you had mind or whatever so to have ownership over it is really incredibly deeply fulfilling you know it's finally being like a painter a true painter and I just have to work on being a little bit more thick skin because this process has been a difficult one. A great challenge emotionally. I really want I'm thankful for, but hard nonetheless. You're putting yourself out there. That's going to come with some shots as well, right?

Yeah, shots. I mean, what I've heard so far is I haven't read anything, but there seems to be some deep delight in the verbiage used to criticize a film. You know, criticism is what it is but the deep delight in being toxic I'm not a fan of you know but again as I say

there's two ways to look at it and I think you know I'm really grateful for the experience of being vulnerable publicly in this way and being able to go walk through it and come out the other side be like I'm still here I'm still laughing. I'm in New York. I just had a great meal with my best friend. Okay. I'm not saying it's easy, but it's doable.

And I'm looking forward to walking that path. I enjoyed it. I think people are really going to like it. Thanks, probably. Get it out to the public, and it's been an honor to talk to Matt Damon. I love you in Oppenheim. My big thanks to Chris for a great conversation, Pullman is in theaters on May 10th.

My thanks to all of you for listening again this week. If you want to hear more of my conversations with our guests every week, be sure to click Follow so you never miss an episode. And don't forget, of course, to tune in to Sunday today every weekend on NBC where you actually can see these interviews as well. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Thank you.