Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Colman Domingo on His Oscar-Nominated Role in "Rustin" (January 2024)

Episode Date: December 8, 2024

Willie sat down with actor Colman Domingo to talk about his long road to the Hollywood spotlight, which began on stage and continued with major projects like, "Fear the Walking Dead," "Euphoria," and his acclaimed performance in "Rustin." (Original broadcast date January 21, 2024) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks as always for clicking and listening along. I am so very excited to bring you this week. My conversation with Coleman Domingo. If you're just learning the name, well, don't worry, you're not alone. Coleman Domingo has been doing theater. He's been doing Broadway and movies and writing plays and directing and doing all kinds of things for many, many years. But now finally, he has getting. his moment in the spotlight with all kinds of nominations for his performance in the film Rustin, which tells the untold story of Bayard Rustin, a civil rights activist who organized the 1963 March on Washington. He did it. He was the brains behind it. He was the energy behind it. Of course, where Martin Luther King delivered the I Have a Dream speech with Byard Rustin standing right behind him. Why don't you know the name Byard Rustin? Byard Rustin was a gay man. in 1950s and 1960s America and was pushed to the side because the people organizing the movements, organizing the events thought it would make them targets and they would be seen as radicals.

And now, thanks to this performance by Coleman Domingo as the title character, Rustin, the story is being told and being told in such an amazing way. I think you're going to love getting to know Coleman Domingo the way I did. I hadn't met him before. my gosh, is he charming and smart and talented? He's emotional about his journey and finding this place now at 54 years old, been around for a long time, has been in community theater, has done it all. So we actually got together at the public theater, the famed public theater in New York City where so much off-Broadway work begins. Some of it goes to Broadway and beyond.

And it's where he got his break effectively in 2006 through an audition that I will let him tell you. about because it is so incredible. He's won an Emmy for his performance in Euphoria, playing alongside Zendaya. He was in Fear the Walking Dead for eight seasons. He's in the color purple. He was in 42 in the Butler. He's had a bunch of movie roles, but certainly this is the biggest yet and getting tons of love for it. So I'm going to step aside and let him, in his own words, tell you his story right now. Coleman Domingo on the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Colvin, it's great to meet you. I'm so happy to be doing this.

Oh, so good to be here. I said welcome, but I think you should be welcoming me because this is your home, effectively. Welcome to my, this is a beautiful old home. And I really, I'm going to sound like those other theater people of your, when they say, it is a church in many ways. It becomes your spiritual home, and it's like, this place has many ghosts, you know.

Yeah, I mean, for people who don't know who are watching, We are not in Times Square. We are not in the Broadway theaters, but the public in this theater, Ansbacher, very special. Why is it? What's the magic of this place? This is the theater that Joseph Papp, you know, built,

and it really is for the people. It really is like any artists worth their, a grain of salt, wants to work here. Because you feel like there's a legacy here. There's people who really have crafted, you know, things that are, you know, I don't know, from chorus line, I saw Doll's House here.

I saw, you know, this Scottish play many times. A play that I produced actually started here a couple of seasons ago called Fat Ham. But this is a place where every actor you want to work here when you come to New York. This is like everyone's worked here. Everyone. Especially out in the park as well because, you know, they have the New York Shakespeare Festival as well. But then coming into this building, you have all these theaters. I think there's five theaters here.

And this is the Ansbacher Theater. Yes. This is where I performed Passing Strange here in 2006, I guess, and it changed my life. It was at a very critical time in my life. And so that's why this place had a special meaning for me. Well, reading about you and studying your career a little bit, it does feel like passing strange here and all the things that flowed from that. That really was a pivotal moment in your life and career. Yeah.

Literally, when I walked in here. And I can't help. I'm just flooded with memories because it started with an audition for it. The audition for Passing Strange was on June 24th, 2006. And I know that date very clearly. Because I auditioned. I came in here and auditioned. I had the time of my life.

It was great. And then I lost my mother on June 25th. And I'm in Philadelphia where I'm from and I'm laying very, very, very much. I'm laying in bed. I literally have my mother's, one of my mother's dresses next to me, like, laying there. I don't know. I think I'm a theater kid, so I was living in my own sort of tragedy. But I get a call for my agent who says, they will love to bring you back in for callbacks. And I said, well, I just lost my mother, and I can't make it. And they, the people of the public theater, they waited for me for two weeks to come back in. And I literally came back in where I just walked in. and I didn't want anyone to feel sorry for me, anything like that just wanted to do my job. But of course, no one knows this until it happens to you. You're completely changed. You don't even know who you are as an artist.

So I really walked in here thinking I can just do the job and just like, they all knew that I lost my mom. But I had to sing a, they won't me to sing a song and I sing a gospel song called He's Able. And it's like, he's able to carry you through. And I don't think I've ever sang like. that before because I didn't know what was coming out of me as an artist it was all new and raw and I sang this song and I felt so vulnerable and everyone in the room was sort of watching and then I did then I did the scene and then I felt like I had to leave quickly I left thank you thank you trying to go through the motions walked right up back out of that bomb went to the side of the

public theater and started bawling because I thought I messed it all up I didn't know what I was doing I was just raw, raw energy. And it was a hot, hot summer day. And Issa Davis, an actor that I knew very briefly, walked up on me. And she said, are you okay? And I said, I think I just ruined the opportunity of my life. I really felt like I was connected to this work and I wanted to do it. But I don't know who I am anymore.

Yeah, I said that. And she said, come here, go, let me take you. back in there. I'm like, no, no, no. She says, come on, come with me. And we walked back in here, and in that little hallway, I stood there. Jordan and Heidi, the cast and directors of the public theater, came out. Because Issa went in here and called them. Actually, it was just, Heidi came out. She says, Coleman, that was fine. That was wonderful. There was everything we needed. I said, are you sure? Because I don't know what I did. And she says, I'm sure. Thank you.

And, of course, I went away. I found out that I got the role. And it was, it's a musical for anyone who doesn't know. It's a musical about a guy who loses his mother. And I played the inspiration to the guy in many ways. My friend Daniel Breaker, it's all connected. My friend Daniel Breaker played the character who loses his mother, who's trying to define himself as an artist.

And every night on this stage, we first started at Berkeley Rep and then came here. When we came here, every night on this stage, Daniel would look back at me before he had to deliver his mother. this eulogy. And I think we had this conversation that was silent where I gave him permission and I said, do it. But also I think I was telling him to do it for me.

And so it was part of my evolution as an artist being in this space, being a New York theater artist and passing strange is truly one of those pieces of theater that I think it saved my life. And if I didn't have that art actually to go to every night and wrestle with and play and it gave me a chance to flex many parts of myself. I think I changed as an artist. I actually became a bit more, that rawness that I experienced, even when I lost my mom.

I left that carry me through with performance. Sort of that part of performance where it's like, I'm actually not as concerned about how, it's a strange thing to say as an artist. My job is to be in service to the work. The way you receive it, I have no control over that, but I have to tell the story and have to be deeply committed to it. And then you receive what you receive.

That's what changed me. Before, I probably wanted more of the, oh, I want to please everyone. But being in this space changed all that. That's a thank you for sharing that story. That's incredible. I mean, I have to imagine as difficult as it was to even perform that audition, you did feel the guiding hand of your mother who was such a fan of yours. Yes, she was. And such an advocate and famously wrote letters to Oprah saying, you need to know my son and all the rest of it.

I had such a good mom. I talk about her a lot and I tell you, it's like, and I hope to never just like, you know, I'm not really trying to angelicize people, but I had a cool, fun, sweet mother. And everybody loved her. So which is why I'm always talking about it because I realize I talk about it because I still want her to exist. Yes. I'm a mama's boy. And so my production company is named after her. So I can always talk about it.

I'm like, hi, Edith. You know what I mean? Yeah. So for any mama's boys out there, I'm like, I'm the biggest one. And I know that she, I started to dedicate everything that I did was in honor of the love and the energy and the imagination that my mother gave me. So my dad, he was, he was also a wonderful, wonderful stepfather. But it's something special about my mom. She really just, she gave me all these, I think, gifts that I didn't even know I had.

You know, because we didn't have a lot. I didn't have a lot of money or anything like that. But I had an imagination and I had faith. And I think that's the stuff that keeps me going. I love that you keep her close. I do. You keep her close with you. And I can only imagine what she's thinking, watching what's happening in your life.

Right now in this moment of Rustin where you're getting such well-deserved acclaim. The world knows your name. You deserve that. Thank you. What does it feel like for you to be sitting in this moment, given where you've come from, given how hard you've worked to finally have that spot laid on you. Since I started, I just wanted to be an artist who was respected. You know what I mean?

I read Uta Hagen and Stanislavsky and everything, and I just wanted to be a child of the theater. And so for me, it didn't matter. How can I say this? I didn't even know that this could happen for me. I actually didn't know. I just wanted to do good work. And then one thing leads to another,

and then suddenly I'm in this space where all the, the lights are brightly shining on me. It sort of takes my breath away when I think about it, honestly, because I think that that, I didn't know that that was the design. I didn't know that people were like, oh, did you dream this? Did you know that this was probably? I'm like, no, I didn't, I don't know if I could dream this big. You know what I mean?

I think sometimes there's dreams that are probably too big for you. And this is one of them. I didn't, I never even had dreams of being on Broadway or I feel like doing television. Like, yeah, there's, how do people, I mean, I drive down Sunset Boulevard now. there's a big friggin' poster of me and beautiful words and of this film that I'm so proud of. It feels like there's something divine about it all, especially for that. For me to be amplified by amplifying Byrd Rustin is so meaningful that I think if I really sat with it.

How can I say it? I think now maybe this is the moment where I can actually release this because I'm a very sensitive person. And I keep getting asked the question, how does it feel? And I almost feel like it's too much. Because it feels so incredible in a way that I never imagined. The way people respond to me in rooms and the way they're, what they're proud of. It's not like I'm just well-known. I'm well-known for my work, the things that I want it to be respected for.

You know, everyone, when I walk into rooms, they're like, Thank you for it. Thank you. And especially when it comes about Rustin, I mean, this unsung hero, someone who's been hidden in the shadows of history, and then by divine order, I've been tasked with that. And I know that I gave everything I possibly could.

All the years in regional theater, off-Broadway, you know, crying on the side of the public theater, all of it went into this work. And you never know if it's going to come back to you, all the goodwill and energy and love that you pour into things. You just do it.

And I've always believed, I think it was the way I was raised. You know, you leave it on the floor. You just leave it out there. You don't hold anything back. And trust that the universe will bring it back to you. And now it's coming back in like a seismic way. So it's overwhelming. It really is.

The people that I have access to or are happy to see me or Steven Spielberg asking to take a selfie with me. I'm like, what? You can have whatever you want, Mr. Spielberg. So it's crazy. It's crazy. At some point, I think I'll have words for it. Maybe not until I'm like 75 and I can really sit with what this moment was and how it feels. Right now it's overwhelming. It's joy, it's tears, it's laughter, it's dancing. It's, I don't know, there's something. And then there's also a bit of peace in a strange way. When I go to these award shows and things like this, I honestly, I honestly, feel very peaceful. It's the strangest feeling. I feel very centered

and I feel very grounded. I don't feel out of my mind. I don't feel like, how can I say this? I met some guy when I was about, when it's turning 50. And he said, and he was a 70-year-old man.

He had beautiful lines in his face and he was driving me in a car in Vancouver. And I said, what's the key to such joy? 70. He said, what can you offer me turning 50?

I'm 54 now. He said, I want you to learn the thing that it took me a long time, which is to want for nothing. Hope for everything. Want for nothing. And I really feel like I've been learning to navigate that where it's like, yes,

I actually, yes, I hope for everything. But I do really do, I want for nothing. I have so much and so much abundance and so much joy that I feel peaceful. So I feel calm. You give that off, too. It doesn't feel like you've been, disoriented by all this. You're right in the middle of this wonderful storm that's happening

around you, but you seem peaceful in the middle of it. So what we should talk about the film and the reason you say you're being recognized for the work and for telling this story, which is I was just saying to you is a story I didn't know of Byard Rustin, how central he was. In fact, the catalyst really for the march on Washington. There probably wouldn't have been a march on Washington or I have a dream speech without this man. Absolutely. So when the idea for the film came to you. What did you think about the character? What did you think about the story? Well, for years, there are people who hold Baye Rustin's legacy in their hearts. It's like a secret society. And every so often, someone will say, hey, when there's a biopic about Bayard Rustin,

it has to be you. This happened for many years in my career. And so I already knew who Byrd Rustin was a little bit, more than most people. And so I'm always telling people when they're like, oh, it feels like such an idiot that I didn't know anything. I'm like, it's all good. no one knew about him. He was practically erased in the history books. I found, I stumbled on him when I was about 19 years old in an African American Studies group that I joined at Temple University. And we're talking about the March in Washington. They were talking about Bayard Rustin. And all these things kept coming up, like this guy from Westchester, Pennsylvania, who was a Quaker, who sang Elizabethan love songs and played the lute. And then as I did research, he had an accent. He had this strange Catherine Hepburn-esque accent that became highly. British, very RP at times. And I said, who is this guy? This guy's from Westchester. I'm from Philly. We don't talk like that. And also the fact that he was openly gay. And I said, what? Who is this man? And then finally, he was an advisor to Dr. King. And he, a lot of his ideologies about passive resistance, the teachings of Gandhi. That was the things that he learned by being curious and in the

world. And he really influenced Dr. King. So I'm like, how is it possible that this person is really in the shadows of history. But once I knew if he was openly gay, that was very much a part of it of why he was buried. But the people who know by Rustin and knew he was,

they could not deny that he was the most incredible organizer that this country has ever seen. That's why everyone knew they couldn't doubt his intelligence and his organizational skills.

He was very impactful in the fight for civil rights and human rights. And he dedicated his whole life to it. Here's a man who was doing sit-ins on buses in 1940.

too. Not, you know, it wasn't Rosa Parks, you know, many other people, but, but again, by Rustin didn't fit the mold and the model of the civil rights movement. He was such an outlier. So that's why he kept, he was constantly being, you know, hidden. Yeah, I mean, that was the, the fact that we don't know him is intentional, right? They marginalized him. Even there's this kind of heartbreaking scene where Dr. King has to effectively fire him before they found each other again. But as we were talking about before we started, if you look at a photo of the March on Washington, and you see Dr. King's giving the I Have a Dream speech. There's Byrd Rustin.

He's right there. He's right there. He's right there. Watching everything. That's something. I love that because when you're watching, he's looking at everything. He's listening. He's focused.

He's organized this whole thing. In seven weeks time with 19 and 20-year-olds, that's the thing I think is fascinating. People always think that this is all done by, you know, crusty old people. No, these are young people who were, who, you know, buyer. was inspiring to say, hey, take part. You know, let's make this world the way you want it to be. And let's galvanize all these ideas about how do we do it? Because he bought together NWACP and SNCC and SCLC.

You know, who was the person who, it took an outlier. It took a black queer man from Western Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania, who was a Quaker to do it. Not many other candidates for that job. The ultimate outsider. So he could see how, oh, let's coalesce and form coal. with unions and get this none. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And, you know, he's incredibly charismatic. Yeah. So how, in studying his life and reading about how, how did he deal with the fact that he was being explicitly marginalized? We think you're great. You're running this operation. You can't be the man out front because you're gay.

Yeah. There was something that I had the pleasure of getting a flight with Merrill Strip. And she stopped me at the end of this flight. And she says, what a singular. man, someone who is completely undaunted. And she says, undaunted, that's what I walked away with the film. This man was undaunted. And I take that with me because that word in particular is so profound for him.

Because he, in every single way, he was fighting to make a place for himself in rooms that he was not welcome in. You know, he knew that his intelligence and his skill set was, I think it comes from, the way he was raised. He knew he had purpose. He was grounded exactly in who he was from the way his grandparents raised him. So he went out into the world with that same energy. You know, fighting systems left and right, systems that he was a part of in many ways. People wouldn't want him to be a part of it in some way.

And then also the outside world. So here's a man who constantly woke up every single day and said, I have purpose. I have intention. I am useful. And he went against the world who said that you have no world. voice and we don't we don't have a place for you and he showed up every single time and demanded to have a space that's what i think is the coolest thing about byard yeah and he did it again what i love and what we were trying to um really show with the film rusting was all the complexities of a human being

that he was joyful spirited he loved to sing he loved to dance he loved to have cocktails he was a fun guy and everyone everyone said this about him so it wasn't just like he was someone who was marvellized and just doing something right for humanity. He was like, he was the whole party. He was literally a Jubilee who was also fighting for our rights in every single way. So I think he needed that spirit.

So I think that he constantly, I don't know, reignited that spirit because I think that's just who he was. But I'm sure we wanted to find moments in Rustin in those private moments where he is a little bit vulnerable in some way because that's the truth. I'm sure. I'm like, you have to think about it. I think I understand that as a human being.

Like, how can you go in these rooms and you have to prove your worth over and over again? And how can you do it and not be bitter? How can you do it and still have love and still have grace? And that's the thing that I wanted to examine with him, because I think that's what he had constantly. I had the privilege of going to his apartment, which is, you know, Chelsea. It's actually not, it's actually still, it's still, cared for by Walter Nagel that was his partner. And you go in there and you get such an idea of who Byrd was. He was one of the most curious people on the planet. And he was a collector.

He has religious sculpture and paintings and art and books and articles. And, you know, just like you could tell he loved to cook and there's fabrics and everything. You're like, oh, this was a man of the world. And this is a man who demanded to be a part of the world and wanted to help everyone else rise up to be a part of the world. and want it to help everyone else rise up to be a part of the world and think about how do we all do it as a collective. Yeah, I mean, you think about him. If you follow the Domino's, he gets the march on Washington done. If there's no march on Washington, maybe there's no meeting forced with President Kennedy.

Maybe there's no Civil Rights Act the next year. I mean, this is, you can't exaggerate how critical he was to the civil rights. Absolutely. You can't exaggerate that at all. that would have been in none of that. It would also, as President Barack Obama told me, backstage when we're in D.C., that's a name job, isn't it? Merrill?

I'm just going to keep a name dropping all day. That's all I'm going to do. I'm not going to go on Oprah at some point. I was waiting for that one. That's always like, you know, like, oh, you know. That's your closer. That's my closer, you know, and then a mic drop and I walk off. No, but he told me this backstage in D.C.

He says, you know, you know, Coleman. You know, there would be no Barack Obama if there was no Biden. Rustin, that's my Barack Obama. That's good. No. But he said, but he said, because he said, no, I looked to him as a North Star and how he was one of the most incredible organizers, you know, and the way he knew how to galvanize people and organizations to come together, you know, to put all their spirit and energy for one thing. You know, it's like how you have to really toggle and work with groups, you know? And I think that's the thing I understand. I think I'm a pretty diplomatic.

like human being because I feel like I can, I can always take a step back and look at all sides. I think that that's what Byrd does. I think that's what any really good communicator does and say, okay, I see where we are. We all may have to give up a little something. But if it's all for the greater good of this, that's what we can do. So I think that that's how he's inspired many people, Bayard has. Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Coleman Domingo right after the break. Welcome back now more. of my conversation with Coleman Domingo. So with all this said, it has to be incredibly gratifying

that the world now knows his name. Yeah, man. Because of you. He was almost lost to history until you and the team behind this movie came along and put him on the map. That's got to feel amazing. It feels amazing, especially the way we've done it as well. I have producers like Bruce Cohen and, like I said,

the Obamas and my phenomenal director, George C. Wolf, Dustin Lance Black and Julian Brice, who wrote the screenplay. I have so many people who have put so much loving, gentle hands around this. And they also, we guided it. And I would say this, George and I made sure that there was a delicacy around the telling of this to make sure that we, yes, this is someone who is so deeply steeped in change and creating a lovely path for so many of our rights. But the film is very sort of personal. I like the fact that it feels a little small.

It's just an intimate character study. So for me, I think it helps what I love to know about people who are heroic is if they were actually just ordinary people doing something extraordinary, just by doing what was in front of them. That's it. He's just putting one foot in front of the other trying to make this world a little bit better. And also, he's actually enjoying his life and doing all these other wonderful things too. So that's what I think is great because I think it's a great message for audiences saying

you can take part. Don't feel that it's too big, you know, don't feel that it's anything about civil rights is too daunting. But you can have joy, actually. You can have joy when it comes to bringing people together to do something unique because you believe in humanity. What a beautiful, beautiful joy. And for a righteous cause. You're rooting for it. You touched on this a minute ago, but I'm curious in what ways you related, as you read and studied the life of Bayard Rustin. He's from Philly. You guys share some qualities.

We share many qualities. Did you see any of yourself in him? You know, I started to, I think, especially when people kept targeting me and be like, you know, these secret societies are like, you got to play by it Rustin. And I was like, well, why me? And I think because, yes,

I think of myself as an intelligent person and somebody who is charismatic. I believe, and who, the way they described Bayard, I felt like people described me that way. And someone who, who, how can I say this? I know the buyer was someone who, I know this. He was someone who was fiercely intelligent, but he also wanted to support people

and also what they know. He didn't just want to be the smartest person in the room. He wanted you to be as smart as well, to join him. And I think there's always a teacher in me. Byard, at his best, was a teacher. And that's, anyone asked me, they know that I've taught many places, been a professor in many places. Anytime, and during the pandemic, I was teaching it, all these different schools around the world, including Yale and Juilliard. Yeah, you know, because I love to teach.

I love to share what I know. And I think that's, I don't know, there's something about that that just feels really good. I love inspiring young people because I want them to find their voice as well. And that's something I knew that Byrd was very clear about. He always had young people around them and saying, yeah, try that thing, do that thing. How wonderful. That's maybe that's being a father. I mean, I'm not a dad, you know, and neither was Bayard.

But I think, you know, we have many children. Also, I think, you know, Bayard Rustin was openly gay at a time when it was not, when it could, you know, jeopardize his whole livelihood, his work and everything. I'm, I think there's something about him possibly. I wonder what's downloaded when you just stumble upon someone when you're 19 years old and how they affect your life. I've always been exactly who I was as an openly gay man in this industry

from the very beginning. There's never been a coming out moment. It didn't feel necessary because I've always been exactly who I was. I lead with my work and hopefully my heart and my intelligence and I trust that the universe sees me the way I see myself without limitation. And that's something Bayer did.

He was like, I need the world to see. They were not seeing him in that way, but he believed from the inside. So I think that those things are very similar with us where we have a sense of grounding of who we are and our purpose and our intention. And that is our North Star. It's not about what other people,

you start there. I believe you start here. The world will see me the way I see myself. You know, the way I believe, what I believe, the way I can bend and mold and become and do all these things that I can do as an actor, writer, director, producers because I see myself that way first.

You know, I'm not a, I think Bayer didn't allow the world to tell him what he can and cannot do. He sort of had to really elbow his way into spaces. I sort of drift in them now because I think of the work the buyer did. That's so well said. I'm curious where this all started for you, Coleman, as a performer anyway, going back growing up in Philly. As a kid, was this in the atmosphere for you growing up?

There was no theater, no performance. Didn't happen until college, I don't think. So what was it like for you growing up? You know, I was shy. Yeah. I was very shy, very bookish. I was not cool. I didn't dress cool.

I wore my sisters hammy downs because they went from my brother to my sister to me. So I'm wearing high top pink pro keds at a time. So, you know, I was just trying enough to get beat up. That was my childhood. Trying not to get beat up the entire time.

And you survived it. Apparently I did. Apparently I did all right. But I feel like those things, like I feel like I look back now, I needed all of it. All of it helped build me to where I am to have some confidence in wearing clothes. and I can wear color and, you know, be all these other things.

But it started there. I come from, you know, inner city, West Philadelphia, working class family, my stepfather's standard hardwood floors. And my mother, she did what's called days work, where she, you know, did housekeeping work. And then eventually my mother was always going back to school. And eventually she worked at a bank, and she did customer service.

Famously, she did customer service at a bank near Temple University, where I went to school. And all my college buddies, my fraternity buddies, will go in and open up accounts with her. Oh, we're going to go see Miss Edie. We're going to go see Miss Edie. And she loved everybody. But my mother was always, she always was, my mother had a sort of, she was the, what

they called the block captain on our block, you know, took care of our neighborhood. So she's always like a bit of a community organizer. Sounds like it. So I come from that. So she's, maybe the spirit of Byard as well. But yeah, but I grew up in a very, I'm like number three and with four kids. And, you know, I think that I, I think we had a, I always tell people, I grew up. in the inner city and I always I write most of my plays and one of my plays were done here I

write about the inner city that I think a lot of people don't even know that exists and like I grew up in a very sort of nuclear household and we at six o'clock every night and sat around and talked about dreams and ideas and kids did their homework and stuff like that I didn't grow up there was no gang banging and drugs and all that other stuff that people like to think is like the whole of the inner city. Now I went down the Jersey shore during the summers to, you know, Cape May because my neighbors had a house down there and stuff like that. I grew up in a very, I grew up very loving and well and healthy and, you know, and then even like stepping out to become an artist and becoming a, I don't know, this, going on this journey. I remember when I first told my

parents, I think it was telling two things at once. I was like, one, like, which was going to be worse, being gay or being an artist? I think it all happened simultaneously. Would you lead with? I don't know what I led with, but whatever I led with, they just always were like, do what makes you happy.

We love you. That's a gift. I come from such love. Everything about me is because of the love that I was given. And I was kissed on and adored and told that I was special, told that I could be and I can dream. Even if they didn't understand,

like being an artist, they didn't know what that was. They wanted me to go to college. I was the first kid that went to college. My younger brother went to college. with the college. But they wanted me to go to school and like to get a good job,

get some benefits, become a healthy citizen. I went to school, it took, it was matriculating in the journalism program. And then it was just overwhelming because I also had to,

you know, pay for my education. I had to help out and, you know, my parents couldn't afford to give me a lot of things. So basically I just, I worked part-time jobs and all.

At some point it was overwhelming. So I dropped out of school. And I just, and then I moved to San Francisco. And I was like I can all, my mother's like, you can always go back to school. But with San Francisco and I did, I took, I took some classes first in Philadelphia as an actor. And one of my teachers at Temple said, he believed that had a gift. He said, I'd be very curious if you explored this.

Wow. And I didn't. It was the first time anyone told me I had a gift. And I was like, this feels right in some way. And so I kept that quiet because I didn't tell anybody. I was not a cool kid at all. And I didn't want to anybody sort of like step on my dreams. Move to San Francisco.

I became all these other things. You know, like I said, also, you know, exploring my life in a new way. And then I started to work. And I started to work in all these small professional theaters. First, it was theater for young audiences at the new conservatory theater and other small theaters. And I learned everything, I've learned everything that I'm doing by doing it. by showing it to rehearsals that I wasn't even called for, by taking notes, by watching, by asking questions

of how to make a really old joke work with Shakespeare, you know, from senior members of the company. But I'm a sponge. And so, you know, I was in the circus. I've done everything. But also because I was, like, willing and willing to try and figure out what this is. And then I start to make my life as an artist.

And that's been the greatest joy. I love exactly the way I've come up into all of this. You know, I think there was at a time when I started to become an established playwright in New York that I thought secretly I felt like I didn't have, I was, I didn't have all the skills that I needed. And I thought about going back to school. I was like, maybe I applied to Yulia or something like that. And then I got this beautiful advice. They were like, because this is after my like third or fourth play.

And someone said, no, you've been doing it. It's a craft. Keep doing what you're doing. You're finding your voice. That's it. This is also your school. in the way you're learning. Trust the way that you're learning.

So I continue with that. And then writing musicals and things like that too, which has been great. Yeah, you've gone on to do incredible things. Was there ever a point because you didn't come from a theater background in your house where you wondered if this was actually a job, a career, something you could eat off and pay rent, or was it just, I'm enjoying this?

Let's see where it goes. And then you made these leaps and leaps and leaps, and all of a sudden it was a life. Yeah, I start to understand it was a life early on because I was like, oh, this is like joining the circus or being a big, being a carney. It's like you're in it and this is your group of people and there's a bunch of weirdos, but you go from town to town. You set sets up. You do regional theater. You make a life.

You make a paycheck for that. It's not enough, but it's enough to like, it wasn't, I wasn't like rolling in dough, but I was actually like, oh, I have a life where I can pay my bills and I can actually. and I can actually feel good about what I'm doing. And so my life started in regional theater, for real. I've done over like 100 regional theater productions. I've been everywhere. And that was the life that I thought I was going to have. And that was a very respectable life, too.

I love that. And I love traveling and sort of making new communities. And then once I settled down in New York for a while, I felt like I wanted to evolve into some other things. And then that I did, and that's been really beautiful. I didn't know that this was, I think you have to make a commitment to know that the life of an artist

has such peaks and valleys and there are times when you'll be bartending for six months or more. There are times when you'll go and do something that you feel like you just have to keep the lights on. But doesn't say that you're not an artist, you have to always trust that you're still an artist.

It's just just today, it's just a little different. And then at some point, I don't know, you get these, I'll tell you this. There was a moment where I actually was going to stop because I thought it didn't make sense anymore.

I think I'm a smart person and I was like looking at the reading the tea leaves. I was like, here I am in my mid-40s. Other friends, colleagues have become doctors and lawyers and they have things and they have 401ks and all. And I'm still just like out here like I was 22 years old

from job to job. And after a while, I didn't know I didn't know if I had it anymore because I had other needs. And I'm looking at what's going to happen when I'm older and how am I taking care of myself. So I really was going to just say that was enough. I thought maybe I had some great successes and, you know, Broadway and passing strain and Scottsboro boys.

And I thought, okay, let's time to hang those shoes up and do something else. I used to, I've always had side hustles, which is why, okay, maybe it's, this is why I always have a lot of jobs, I guess, because people are like, how is it possible you're in this show and that show, you're doing that movie and this thing, you're writing this and directing that. Because I'm from West Philly, and I needed side hustles. So my jobs now are all side hustles. I have plenty of them.

But I remember I used to have a headshot business. And I thought, you know what, that's lucrative and I can control it. Let me just continue with that. And before I did that, it goes back to my friend Daniel Breaker that I did Passing Strange with. He said, he said, my manager has been wanting to meet with you for a while. entertain that? I think I've got six more months left. We'll see what happens.

And by seeing, maybe it's still that little spark of like, let's see what happens. Sure. It was buried deep in my cold, bitter heart. It's a flicker. It's a lot of flick. It was like, you know, the grinch's smile. You know the grinch?

It's still in there. There was a little light, and his heart was still, then it gets big. My heart was like that because I was like, ah, I'm just like, business is terrible. It doesn't want me.

It doesn't want what I'm selling. And then suddenly, everything opened up again. But there was still that little flicker, that little light there, waiting, knowing it was there. And that also changed my life. Which is interesting because, as you said, you're coming off success. Passing Strange is a success here? You win the OB for that. Then it goes to Broadway.

Then Spike Lee makes a movie out of it. Then you get nominated for a Tony and Scottsboro Boys. And in between, I kept going back to bartending and stuff. Which is wild. You think one thing leads to another. Right. You think, and maybe that's the thing, because I also thought, like,

usually with, like, anyone who has a quote-unquote real job, you do that, you get a raise, you get more benefits, you get more things. But in the life as an artist, you're like, oh, you can do that incredible thing on Broadway that sort of changed the culture. After passing strange, closed on Broadway and Spike Lee filmed it,

I literally went back to my bartending job. Wow. At the 55 bar in the West Village. It's no longer there. but I used to work there. And Cueva Lutz, God bless her, she was an angel. No matter how far I was going, I've had many angels in my life,

and she was one of them. Because any time she said, you need to come and make money, we can find a place for you, I find a shift for you. And this was just a little tiny bar. So I would go back there, after starring on Broadway,

after Spike Lee filming this, after many successes, and still have to have humility, which is, I think, part of the gift that I've had, having to do that, to always keep me humble and say, hey, know that that's a moment, but you might be right here,

and you have to not think you're too good to do this job. You have to understand why you're here. You didn't do anything wrong, but this is what you need to do to take care of yourself and your loved ones. So that's what I did. So you always have those moments, but my whole career is just like peppered in

with, even as we're talking about it, I'm like, oh, wow, that was an angel right, there. That's someone, you know, it's like, I don't expect anyone to do anything for me. I feel like I come from people who say, no, you have to, anything you do, you have to build it, you have to make it, you have to create it yourself. And that's beautiful because you know you did it. But every so often you do need someone, you need, you need a handout, not saying that you can't do it, but somebody's just going to say, hey, just come this way. Let me just put you in the room. That's it. And so now, I feel like now, part of my success and where I am right now,

I know I have that power. But also, I don't do it just for anybody. I do it for people who I know, you just need a little lift. That's it. That's why I started, I have an award in the theater with the vineyard theater because I want to make sure they're like, it's for people who just need that little lift or somebody who needs to have a light shown on them,

just a little bit. It's the thing that I wish that was always available for me. You need these angels. So if you can become one in this wild and crazy business, what a beautiful thing. And it says a lot about you that you remember them all, you stop and you acknowledge them, and you take none of it for granted. You don't feel it's owed to you in some way.

They were all there nudging you along the way. Stick around for more of my conversation with Coleman Domingo right after a quick break. Welcome back now to the rest of my conversation with Coleman Domingo. And the meeting you talked about, so that's only 10 years ago where you're talking about getting out of the business. Yeah. Thank God you didn't, by the way. I was like, but thank you. And then is that the walking day?

job that comes along that kind of changes things for you a little bit? Yes, yes. It was, I, the first thing my, I had to have a breakup with my agent that I had, who I loved that. We worked well together for 17 years. And small boutique agency, and I knew that I wasn't playing with the big boys and girls. So we had to break up and it was really sad. We still love each other, but it was sad because we just knew that whatever dreams and

aspirations that I had, it wasn't attainable, you know. And so we sat there in tears for like hours. And then my fantastic, beautiful managers, you know, Brian and Corey, who were like my brothers, they said, we want to set you up for success in this new way with the goals and aspirations that you have. And so we met with the agency that I'm still with. with Elizabeth. And Elizabeth is in town department, and I was represented by them literary. So Elizabeth and I, immediately, I think we, I think we saw each other in many ways. Yet, when this audition came up for Fear of the Walking Dead, I thought, I was going to be,

I was like, wait a minute. But I'm still still a little like of the Grinch right now. I'm still like, wait a minute, you don't know what I do. I don't do, you know, genre things. Now, I'm a real classical actor. What is this Fear the Walking Dead business? Well, it's a franchise. You know, it's part of the franchise of walking down.

I don't know what you're talking about because I don't watch TV. I know that sounds weird. An actor sitting here. They might have liked that, though. Yeah, I said, I don't even watch TV. What are you talking about? I just got back from London on the West End. And she's like, you know, I think you'll really love it.

She sent me the material. And it was a monologue. And it was as if it was beautifully written by Dave Erickson. And it was a beautiful monologue that was straight out of, like, King Lear. And I thought, well, okay, I have to reexamine what I think about this. I'm like, all right, let's do it. So I really threw this audition together pretty quickly.

I sat there with the text. It was, you know, text that is beautifully written is easy to memorize. So I learned this very quickly, very quickly. Got my husband to come in, put me on tape. And let's just throw this on tape real quick. Bap, bap, bambam, boom. Did it, sent it off, didn't think about it. Now, I had already auditioned for a Baz Luhrman.

show called The Get Down, like a couple days before. So two days later, I get a call. Okay, hey, Bosn-Lerman wants to see you for The Get Down. Here's a, oh, that's cool. Yeah, but now we have something complicated. I'm like, what's complicated? Fear the Walking Dead. I said, well, what's that?

The show that you audition for, I'm like, I don't know, because I feel like I was just, let me just do it and get it out of here. Right. I said, yeah, it looks like they really want you. I was like, but that was just a self-tape. I mean, nobody wants you, you think, off of self-tape. It's been my history up until then. It was self-tape, another self-tape, meet, fly to L.A., go back, test again.

It was that you have to go through hurdles. Yeah. And I had divorced myself from those hurdles. I'm like, I'm not doing that anymore. You want me, I'm over here. So, and they all knew that. I'm like, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to be that guy who I'm like, I'm tired of, I've done that.

I've done the dance. I don't want that anymore. Literally, the beautiful thing is the next day they call it with a direct offer for Fear the Walking Dead to be a series regular. I'd never, that's never happened in my career. Just off the tape. Just off the self-tape. Off the self-tape.

Wow. I guess the self-tape was really good. It must have been good. It was all right. It was fine. But, and then I had to let, you know, I had to figure out because the get-down was shooting in New York, and I'm like, I'm a New York actor. That makes sense.

Fear the Walking Dead was shooting like in L.A. in Vancouver and I was like, I don't even know what that is. I'm a New Yorker. But then I decided to go down the rabbit hole and do something. This was a part of my evolution and saying, let's give this a chance and reinvest in what I'm doing. Let me try something different in the genre that I had no idea. Now, by the way, the show, he was a millionaire who dressed in Ralph Lauren's suits.

I thought that was going to be the show. I'm like, oh, great, he's good. He's a con man. very interesting. You know, lots of strong character work. I didn't know I'd be like fighting and stunts and blood and guts and evolving over eight seasons, but it really was the show that really, it really gave me my way back in, and it really, I'm very thankful for that because it really was a show where I was able to use my voice as an artist and help transform that character from season to season, even so much that I became a director on the show, and at the end of the season, last season,

and I was a producer on the show. So I was able, you know, again, that's the hustler of me from Philly. Yeah. I'm going to get everything from that production. I'm like, what's available? What's on the table? What's underneath there? So I got everything I can get out of it, which is beautiful.

And I've had a beautiful relationship with not only, you know, with AMC. It's just been a wonderful ride. And it's gave me more footing in this industry again. It gave me many gifts. That's what I was going to ask you. It sounds like you're established here in New York. People know you, stages, places like this, Broadway. But now all of a sudden, you're in the door.

in Hollywood. And they go, oh, he's good. He can do a lot of different things. What else is there for him? Was that that step? I think it is. I think, but it's funny because I think in the past few years, people just caught onto the fact that I'm a multi-hyphenate.

Because people who know me as a writer, really know me as a writer, like as a real published playwright and a librettist. So people know me in these circles in certain ways. Or they know me as someone from San Francisco Bay Area who did all these work on a Shakespeare. You know, I was always a Shakespeare clown or a lover. And then suddenly, you know, then people know my directing work. And a lot of people don't even, like, some, the people who know, no, people will know

that I've directed at regional stages all over the country. And that's also what I do. But now they're, they're knowing the, you know, the bona fide Hollywood legend. I totally kidding. You've really changed, man. I've changed. You've changed. You know, I'm very different now, very different.

No, no. No, but now people know me in these other circles. But now they're putting it all together, which is what I love. They're like, oh, he does television and film, and he directs, and he produces. It's like, oh, so the beautiful thing is they're finally understanding that I do all of these things. So I can never just be like, oh, you're that guy. But now it's like, oh, you're that guy who does all those things. And now, which is even more interesting that they actually know my name.

Because for many years, people didn't know my name. They're like, you, do you want me? $5? No, no. No, no, but they know that because they, because I do so many things. I look different and everything. My voice is pitched differently. I'm heavier. I'm skinnier. I'm older. I'm younger. You know, but now people are putting it all together, and that's kind of nice to, you know. You know, if I asked my daughter who's 16, who you are, you're the guy from Euphoria. Oh, yeah, of course. Right? So you have that demographic lockdown, too. Oh, yeah. You could do it all. Oh, yeah. I have, you know, I have, like, such different audiences. I think, I think,

And usually I can tell when a person looks at me. I'm like, oh, I think I know. They're like, what do I know you from? I'm like, you watch this. You know, Latino bros in their 20s, fear the walking dead. Young girls, especially when they're literally pull up next to me, driving down the 405 and they're all looking in the car. And I'm like, what's going on?

My husband's like, I think they know you. And I'm like, and I wave, they go, I'm like, who knew I become like a beetle or, you know, Harry Stiles? I don't know. at 54 years old. That's kind of cool. But so people know me, or they know me from prestige work, or they know me from genre work. I love it. I love that people know me from all different things. So it continues to allow me to flex and be very, very unique.

And the Euphoria role earned you an Emmy Award, after which you made a beautiful speech where you hit all the themes that you've been talking about this morning, which is gratitude and the kindness and the love that brought you to that stage. that had to be an incredible moment to stand there on such a big platform holding that trophy and get to express that to all the people who got you there. It did. I mean, and maybe that's something I'm always conscious of, hopefully, and I want to stay, always conscious of, that no one does this by themselves.

They don't. There's no, it's me standing up front and doing the work, but I have all these people who are working day and night to make sure I can do that. And there's also people who just love me. lately the greatest gift that I've had and my gosh I'm such a softie please don't cry go for it man we're here together no the beautiful thing is I've had people in the last week in particular reach out and say if there's anything you need I know that you're in such a run I've seen you on every red carpet and every award show and every interview if you need me to just

come and sit with you and have tea you want to go for a walk you need to beautiful that's i think gosh i can't sell myself because it's so much it's so overwhelming like i said in the beginning it's so overwhelming all this love that's what the overwhelming thing is people were saying i just want to be a part of it and help you and i think maybe that's uh that's uh hopefully the goodwill that i don't know i've been conscious of that my mother wanted me to do in being service to other people that it's coming back when it comes back you don't expect it you don't even You weren't asking for it. But suddenly people were saying,

can I just come and sit with you? But what do you need? Someone did that this morning. Just say, hey, I know you're in New York. If you just did a meal, a home-cooked meal, come over. What a beautiful thing. So I'm telling you, I'm like, if I really thought about it, I wouldn't stop crying.

So that's why I almost tried to avoid the question. No, but I think you're right. You get that back. when you spend your life giving it. And I also think in your case, there's an element of a lot of people rooting for you who've known your journey, that you've been true to yourself,

true to your work, doing great work, and that now you've arrived in this moment. And it's something, because I think, and I'll add that because I've been doing the work, and I know that the thing that I'm very clear about is that I know I've been doing the work, and sometimes the sun doesn't shine on you. So you have to go back to,

just go do the work, whether it's reviews or critics or moments where you could have got a leg up in the industry in some way, but another decision was made. And so I have people who are always just like, man, why isn't that heat under you? Why aren't you being seen? Why aren't you being talked about? I remember people, why aren't you on the cover of that magazine? Why isn't it you? Because they know how hard I work. They know how much I'm dedicated. They know how much I give. And I just think I've always just had this faith, that he'll come back someday. Just keep going and just give.

And I think maybe that's, I remember when I read the script of Rustin, out of every scene that was most meaningful to me, was the last scene where he just goes back to work. That's where me and Bayard do this, because I understood that in every single way. I understood where you're not, no one's taking you into the room, you know, where it's like the room is meant for others.

And then you have to think and figure it out. You're like, so what should I do? Do I let that make me bitter? Or do I go and be purposeful and remember the work and to go back to work and to trust and trust. Someday. Someday. As you say, you've really been on this ride,

been nominated for every award. You can be on a bit of star. on the red carpet, people rooting for you, at the risk of jinxing anything, it'll be my fault if I do. What would it mean to you to hear your name called as an Oscar nominee? In particular, an Oscar nominee

for representing Byrd Rustin would be heaven. I know I put every ounce of my heart and soul into this work for Byard. I really did. I know I did. it would mean that not only I'm being amplified and my work and what I've, the journey I've been on to make sure that I was in service to the work, it shows that I'm, you know, being amplified is wonderful. It really is.

And then being amplified by Rustin, that's the cherry on top. That means that everyone will always know who Rustin has. That's why I did this film in every way. I say, if that happens for me, if that goodwill, that joy, that momentous momentous moment, what that does, it's beautiful for an artist. I accept it. It comes in, come in. Because I will just continue to enjoy the moment and being in rooms, being with my colleagues. And if it means I get more opportunities to do what I'm doing, that's awesome.

I think it's just awesome. So I say bring it on. If it's mine, it's mine. We've got a lot of people rooting for you. Thank you so much for the time, Coleman. You really appreciate it. That was a beautiful conversation. Thank you.

Thank you for me and so open. Sure. My big thanks to Coleman Domingo for such an open and thoughtful conversation. I'm so grateful. You can stream his film Rustin, and it is an extraordinary performance. It's up now on Netflix. And my thanks to all of you for listening again this week. If you want to hear more of my conversations with our guests every week, be sure to click follow so you never miss an episode.

And don't forget to tune in to Sunday today every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit Down Poddy. Music