Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Darius Rucker Talks New Music, Mother's Support, and David Letterman Boost (October 2023)

Episode Date: May 26, 2024

Darius Rucker opens up about dedicating his new album, “Carolyn’s Boy,” to his mother, how an appearance on “The Late Show with David Letterman” changed the trajectory of Hootie & the Blowfish, and how he was able to overcome the initial negative response to his first country single after going solo. (Original broadcast date October 8, 2023) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks as always for clicking and listening along. Got a really good one for you this week, I think, with one of my favorite people and one of the biggest stars in all of music, Darius Rucker. I'm not going to say much here. You know Darius Rucker. You love Darius Rucker. You know that in 1986 at the University of South Carolina, he and three buddies formed a band called Hootie and the Blowfish that toured around kind of Southern college towns for a long time until they blew up with their debut album, Cracked Rear View in 1994.

We'll tell you about the pivotal moment that turned them from college band to international sensation. That album went platinum 21 times over. It's in the top 10 best-selling albums of all time in the history of music up there with Led Zeppelin and the Eagles and the Stones, the Beatles and everybody else you can think of. In 2000, They take a break and Darius Rucker says, I'm going to my southern musical roots and I'm going to sing country. His first song in country goes to number one on the charts. He's had eight number one songs. He's out with a new album titled Carolyn's boy, really special to him, as you'll hear.

His mother's Carolyn, she died before his massive success. She did sort of grant him the permission to pursue a life in music. She inspired him by the music she listened to in the house and what she sang in the kitchen. She is kind of the reason for it all, a single mother who raised six children in South Carolina working double shifts as a nurse. And this is an album that is a tribute to her that honors her. And you'll hear Darius talk about that in a really beautiful way. So sit back and relax a great conversation with Darius Rucker right now on the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Darius, it's great to see you, man.

Great to see you, really always is. We've just completely broken down the SEC this football season. Yes, we did. I think this will have to layer that part of the FCC network. We might bore the viewers of the Today Show. Because it wasn't really the FCC a room, then. We put up Vanderbilt and South Carolina. Which is even worse now, then in Georgia.

Exactly. Where's the clicker? I've got to get this off. It's great to see you in this venue, which I know you've played, and we'll talk about that some more. And here with some new music that you've been out on the road all summer playing. What's the response been like to the new album? It's been great.

I mean, we've been playing about four new songs off the record. and people loving it. As a musician, especially somebody puts records out like I do, you just want that. I want songs I can play live. Songs that are going to resonate with people because the live shows are still why I do it.

And so it's been a great summer. And it's been a minute since you've put out a solo album, six years, I think, something like that. What was it about this moment where you said, all right, I'm ready. It's time to say something again. It was time.

You know, I put out my last record that we did Hootie for that year and a half. And we did a record. and went out on tour and stuff. I think when I came back from that, I just wanted to go play. I just wanted to go play country music because I wasn't really thinking about

making a record. And then finally, it was just like, man, I'm ready to write some songs until we, you know, started to make Carolyn's boy. So Carolyn's boy,

we've got to talk about the title. That is your mother, of course, your late mother. Why did you dedicate this album to her? I mean, it was funny. I was writing the song, and we started the recording, and I wasn't having a bad day,

you know, when it was bad mental health days. I just wasn't doing well. And I just remember sitting there, there and thinking at the end of the day, I'm just my mom's boy. And right there, so I would name the record, Carolyn's boy, because really that's, in my heart, that's who I am. I'm just my mom's kid. And what does that mean to you, to be Carolyn's boy? You know, somebody who, she taught us to be nice, she taught us to care, she taught us to give back. She taught us to always, always be the best

person you can be. And I really hope that, you know, she's looking down from heaven and I'm, that man she wanted me to be. So there were six of you, right? Six kids, single mom, was a nurse, working double shifts. Absolutely. What was that household like? And now that you've grown up

and you're a parent yourself, how much more respect even do you have for what your mom was able to do? Oh, absolutely. Being a parent, you really get it. You get it. And for me, we were lucky. We had a village.

You know, we had our house, but everybody, all of our neighbors were our family. You know, I remember stuff like you know, getting in school, getting into trouble in school, and my mom was at work, and there's a knock on the door, and it's my best friend's dad,

who basically took me out of the back card and let me know that we don't do that. But that was how I grew up. And so it was like, my brother's sisters were all still real close and everything, and my mom just taught us family, families, everything.

And that's something I took on to my kids and, you know, with their lives, you know, families are the most important thing. And what influence did your mom have on the music. I know you grew up in the church, listening to music like so many good Southern young boys and girls did. That's where it starts, and then you graduate to

Al Green that's playing in the house. Was your mom a big part of your musical influences? She was the biggest part. She was a huge part because she always, there was always music playing. There was never music not playing in the house, whether it was the radio or records or whatever, and we had one of those big high fives, you know, that had all the

records inside, and I would just listen to records. And she was great because she never let anybody tell me what I can listen to. My cousins would come over and I'd be listening to rock and roll on the radio or something or country on the radio and they'd come and ask you know why you listen to that white point music

and she would just lit into that. She would light into them and let them know you let them listen to what he wants to listen to and it was great. I always say I don't think I could have sang the songs I sang and made the music I made if my mom wasn't always a champion and protecting me from people telling me

I couldn't. So what were the other records in that high-fi? I'd You talk a lot about Al Green. Glad it's like the Pips. You know, Wilson Pickett. There was a Charlie Pride record in there. I remember one day asking my mom why we had a Charlie Pride record. And she said, because he's a black.

I don't think she ever put it on. I don't think she heard. I was the only one playing it. But, you know, he bought it. You know, and that was great. In one moment that I'll never forget, she was in the kitchen making dinner. And I found these two Beatles 45. It was the first two 45.

they had ever put out. And they were just sitting in there. And I went and I said, Mom, when'd you buy this? She said, well, everybody bought those when they came out. You know, it was like, I want to hold your hand and she loves you. I think it was, and I just started freaking out. And I was started by love with the Beatles. But, like, I always say she, she, she, she had good musical taste. Oh, yeah. I mean, she had good musical taste. I mean, really good musical taste. Oh, great music good to ask. Because she was such a singer. She was a light year is better than I am as a singer. And she was, I would go sit in the living room. A living room connected to her kitchen. And I would sit in the living room and just listen to her singing because she was so amazing. So was that journey went along for you, Darius.

And unfortunately, she didn't get to see you become the massive international star that you've become. But she saw you on your way. Oh, yeah. She saw you off to college, knew you were playing those kind of gigs. Yeah. What kind of encouragement did she give you? along the way. She never, when I told her when I told her, I was in a band, I mean, she's always

encouraging. I'll never forget the day after my junior year that I was going to tell her I was going to quit college. I thought she was going to destroy me. I thought, you know, that was not going to be an option. And she looked at me and she said, if that's what you want to do, if this music thing's what you're going to do, do it. Wow. And that was a great day for me because I realized

I had her behind me, no matter what I had. You know, I didn't think I had a backup plan until I, she said that. I was like, well, I guess she He's my backup plan. What a gift, right, to give you that permission, go. It was huge. Taking that parenting tip on your own, too. I have, but it's not as easy as she made it look.

No, it's not. It's not as easy as she made it look. Yeah, although I think some people following your footsteps maybe with music as well. So when you sit down to write this new album, Carolyn's boy, how do you construct an album? I'm always curious when someone like you says, okay, I'm ready to say something. It's time again. What do you, how do you start basically? Really, you just start writing.

For me, I got so many friends in Nashville that are amazing writers that I write with. And you start calling your buddies. And when I started writing it, it was COVID. You know, when the Zoom writing and all that stuff started happening, and it was just a different animal, but it was still, we were still coming up with these great songs. And so I was cool with it. And it was, when I started, it was just like, all right, I'm ready to make a record.

And the best part of, I've been lucky. My label has never Pressure me about anything You know Whenever you're ready man We're ready And then they worked their butt off When I put it out and stuff

And it's just been a fun Fun journey in country music And making this record Was awesome Any songs that feel special Particularly special to you? A lot of of Sarah I wrote that with Ed Shearin

And that's a special song I think a song that's on the record That I can't stop listen to It's a song called Never Been Over That I wrote with Lee Miller and John Osborne from the Osborne brothers. And I love to tell the story

because John's not the singer. John's the long hair guitar player. And he sang the demo. And it was so good that I tell him every time he listens, I say, every time he listens, I'm just trying to be you. I try to coffee of what I sing that song because it was so good.

You're going to say, hey, maybe you should have cut this one? No, I was cutting that one. He had no choice. I was cutting that one. And the response on stage that you've been getting, are there ones where you come out and you go, Okay, people are really connecting with the song. Amazing.

Like, we were doing this one song with our song called Have a Good Time. And as soon as I get to the course, everybody is like, yeah. It's the first time they're hearing it. By the second chorus, they're singing it. By the third chorus, they're loving it. And that's what you want as a songwriter. You want people to get it, and then you get them to get it that quick even better. Well, you write a song with, say, Ed Shearin.

How does that work? Is that a text? Hey, Ed. I'm putting together an album. You want to jump on? Yeah, you know, it was one of those things where I was, We've been trying to write for years And finally I was like, I'm writing with you for this record

And it was funny because I jumped in the plane And just flew to England And spent the day with Ed And it was a great day We had so much fun And we just wrote We wrote like five or six songs that day And we just wrote and wrote and wrote

And then we went to the pub and had a blast That was a pretty good day trip That was a good day So you have some more in the arsenal potentially Yeah, we put one on the last 2D record And I got some more I got some more stuff that we're that I have in the pot that I'm going to use for something, I'm sure I love.

He's such a great song writer. He's crazy great. All right. We're going to keep our eyes out for that. Oh, yeah, you should. Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Darius Rucker right after the break. Welcome back now more of my conversation with Darius Rucker.

We're talking about your mom giving you the blessing to go make music when you went to South Carolina. So you go to Columbia from Charleston, where you grew up. When you think about those early years of Hootie and the Blowfish, it's a lot of vans, right? It's a lot of fraternities. A lot of fraternity parties. We know that scene. It's that whole, that southern college scene.

Is that a time you look back with fondness? Or is that sort of, man, that was a tough grind back then? Oh, people ask me all the time, do I miss when Hootie was huge? We were in 94, 95. We were one of the biggest bands in the world. I was like, no. I miss 91, 90, 90, 89, when. We'd go in a club the first time and it'd be 10 people there.

And then the fifth time we were there, and there's a line outside the door. You know, those are the days I miss. And I think the main news I miss those days is because we were inseparable. There was the four of us against the world. And we knew it. And we lived it every day. And I missed those times a lot. And was the goal at that point, Darius, let's just be a fun college band.

Let's have a good time together. We're buddies at USC. Let's tour around and see what happens. Or was it, we've got something here. Let's try to build. I mean, you sold tons of merch. Like, if you were a thing in the South before you were a thing around the world,

was the goal to keep climbing eventually maybe to where you got? I think at first it was just, let's just have some fun, you know, meet some girls and have a good time. And then, I guess two years in, we were sitting on Mark's porch in Colombia, the three of us, and our drummer had just left.

And we had a big fight, a big, big discussion that day. And that day it became, we're doing this until until we make it until we're going to do whatever we take it takes to make it and that's what we did that's when I told mom I was quitting

and that was when it was it was who he was we it became an obsession we were going to make it we were going to make it it it was simple as that. So you cut that EP Cucci Pop. So that was a few songs I think it had Hold My Hand on that

Letter Cries on that Yes right okay so that's this is pre-cracked. So you get that album out there, you get a record deal, right, in 93. What did that feel like to you? Okay, this is a big step. We're on our way here.

You never could have foreseen what was going to happen with that album, of course. I'll be honest, you know, we got that record deal because we sold so many of Coo-Pop just out of the back of the band and out of the bomb-of-pop record stories. We get a record deal, and at the time, Grunge was king. I mean, Grunge was king.

It was dominating the radio. pop radio, rock radio it was all grudge. And we were this little pop rock band from South Carolina so we didn't know what was going to happen. And even there's a guy at our label, and I'd never say his name.

The guy was an Atlanta, he was a vice president. And today he tells people that he signed us. He does. But he went in and he said to the president of the label that if they put correct if Atlantic put correct review out, they were going to be the laughing stock of music. It was what was said.

Wow. Was what was said that. Because it wasn't correct. It was just pop rock band. And they, not a lot of people at the label wanted to put it out. And they did.

And the people that loved it, worked it, and then Letterman happened. So that's a big moment. The Letterman, it was sort of in the days when an appearance like that could change literally, I think.

It changed our lives. Overnight. Overnight. Right? So you do it on a Friday, I think? We did it on Friday. Yeah, we did on a Friday. And he heard us on Tuesday.

Had us on Friday. And that Friday morning, there was maybe five stations in the country playing that and all in the south you know Columbia and Charleston and Atlanta and that Monday we were the most added and after that it went crazy wow yeah one one appearance of Lebanon you've told Dave that story over the years well he's he knows I had a great experience with Dave we were at a at a horse race or something and I saw him and you know Dave's really private so I didn't want to go bother him and I'm sitting there watching and he all of a sudden

I look up and he's standing on me and we've had a great embrace and talk but We wouldn't be here. I wouldn't be talking to you if it wasn't for the David Letterman show. It's really that simple. I mean, he changed our lives. And that album, I had to look it up again because it blew my mind. 21 million copies, 21 times platinum. And I was looking at the list of the best-selling albums of all time.

And it's in top ten. I mean, it's Led Zeppelin and Beatles and all the Eagles and everything we know. Wow Jackson. Michael Jackson. Does that still blow your mind? my mind. Blows my mind. I was,

somebody was talking about something the other than they showed me something and we were like the eighth bestseller record of all time. And blows your mind. That's like, like, wow.

I mean, up there with all those people that we vitalize and think are great and all those records that we think are great. And to be in that mix is just, that's a mind-blowing.

Do you remember a time you walked down on a stage and the crowd suddenly was big and the crowd suddenly was singing all the songs back to you? Yeah. Was there a moment

or maybe a couple of moments like that. But there was a moment where we were playing this, we were playing a park in Columbia, a charity gig we were playing in 90, right after a letter, and walking out and seeing, you know, 20, 30,000 people. We freak out. And then two weeks later, we play East Lansing, Michigan.

I'll never forget us play East Lansing, Michigan, and playing as big outdoor place that they could sell as many tickets as they want. And we get on stage, and there's 77,000 people. Come on. It was, I mean, we, you know,

we get out of our bus and we get there and they were like, there's a lot of people. I was like, really? How many, they said 70? I was like, yeah, right. And we walk on stage and you can't not see people.

It's 77,000 people there. That was when we really started getting. Oh, this is great. So was that after the show, you're backstage. It was after a little. Whoa. But, I mean, do you get backstage from that show? Something's changing.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, we, I think we were like, so super-sitched, we don't want to jinx it, so we didn't really talk about it, but you go, that was crazy. You know, because two months before, we were playing the 200 people at a club

in Wilmington, North Carolina. And now we're playing the 77,000 people. So, to what do you attribute 21 million albums? The songs are great, fun to sing along with, it's good music, you start there, but why did it become some other thing than just a successful album?

I think, I think the only thing we can attribute it to is the songs in the production. I mean, the songs are great songs because it was one of those things where, you know, before streaming, we were at, you know, 15 or 16 or whatever, and, you know, you're in the top 15 selling records all of a sudden. That's great.

But then streaming happens since it's a whole new thing. It's a whole new thing, and people still want the record. And it's just one of those things where for us, I like the thing it's just the songs. We hit lightning in the bottle. We wrote some great songs that people still resonate with, and that's what you want to do. How did you deal with the personal side of it, which is you go from those gigs of 200 people in Columbia, South Carolina, to everyone in the country knows who you are, and now people all over the world know who you are.

How did you manage that part of the celebrity side of it, which no one's ready for it to happen that quickly? No, goodness so. We were ready for it, but we were lucky that we had each other. And we were so close at that point. Like, we would get on the road and come home off the road at noon, pull into your house, and by one o'clock we're calling each other, when are we going out? What time are we going to meet up? And we were always together. And we never let each other get a big head or take it too serious. You know, it was always, anytime you try to do that, there was always somebody to cut you down. You know, we couldn't even wear black t-shirts back there without somebody letting you know who, what are you,

a bono? Or who are you, you, you're any better now? So it was like, we had each other, and that's how we dealt with it, just staying insulated in our little group and realizing that the only thing we saw, the show's getting bigger. The show's getting bigger

and somebody recognized me in the airport. That's all. we saw it was still, we would still just afford us. It's amazing, too. You go from that, my kids who were 14 and 16 know you as country artist

Darius Rucker. And I go, hold on, there's this other thing. Oh my God, those songs are great, but there's a whole generation that knows you as a country artist because of the turn you took

around 08, I guess it was. What brought you to country music other than the fact that you grew up with it, as you just said, with your mom, and it was a familiar sound that you liked.

Yeah, I was like, one of the, one of the funniest things ever seen as I finished the show and this kid says, you know, that show was great, but I don't know he was such a big hoody the blowfish fan. And somebody wrote him back, well, you know he's the

least of Hoosish, right? The kid freaked out, but... That's a lot of hooty covers. I know, that's what he was like, God, he likes to be in a little bit bloomin. But for me, I always like country music, and in 1989, this record came out by this guy Radney Foster. And I'll never forget it. I was working records

Monday through Wednesday and then going on the road with the band on the weekends. And this record comes out. I put it on and it got into the third song and I said out loud to my personal, I was like, I want to do that. I was like, I've never heard it. I've never no one's ever made me want to sing it more than this guy. I want to sing country music. And I went

back to the band. I was like, y'all, we should be a country band. Nah, we're going to play rock world. We're going to be R.m. We're going to do that. We did that. It was great, but I always said someday I want to make a country record. Someday I'm making a country record. Someday, I'm making a country record. That day finally came. Did you feel skepticism when you made that

turn from radio stations, fans, Everybody going, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Understatement. What are we doing here? Understatement. I got lucky and got a record deal. It's so funny, the guy who gave me a record deal, Mike Dungan said to my manager, Doc. He's like, you know, I never got that hooty thing.

But I always thought that kid was a country singer. And he gave me a record deal. And I'm out visiting a radio station stuff. And three radio station guys said this to me. To my face, I don't think my audience will ever accept a black country singer. And that was, I mean, the first. The first time I heard it was shocking because, you know, I knew they probably kind of felt that way, but you actually said it to me, you know, and that was more motivation.

For me, that was more, okay, what do you want me to do? How hard do I have to work? Tell me what I got to do to make this work. And we were lucky. We had a great song that was undeniably country and people resonated with. And, you know, the people that didn't realize it with my voice were like, ah, you know, I like that voice and they bought it. But there was a lot of skepticism.

A lot of people telling me it was never. never going to happen. And that song went to number one, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah. It did pretty well. It did all right. Right out of the box. It did all right.

It's funny because Mike tells the story of the day he decided to sign me, he called the 13 people in Nashville he thought with a tastemaker, you know, record label, presence, producers, people who really make stuff happen. And he told him he was signing me. And he said, 12 of them told him it will never work. And he said, eight of them told me you will be the laughing stock of music if you do. Yeah. Feel pretty good to be sitting here right now.

Yes, it does. Love you, Mike. All takes is one guy, right? Exactly. One guy to believe in you. You just happened to be the president of the label. That helped, but it helped. It is even sitting here, it's shocking to hear that someone would say the things they said to your face that a black artist can't make it in country music. Did you carry that with you when you went in?

Did you feel any weight of like, I'm this breakthrough artist, I'm breaking barriers and all those things? Or was it just like record record songs? The one thing I wanted to do was rike good songs. I was like, let's make a great record record songs. all the other stuff comes with it. But once I made it, I wanted to see other people make it. I wanted to see what me proving that stereotype wrong

would do for other folks. And I loved it. I saw Kane came around. Mickey and every, you know, Chia have a heart now and all these bands that are, you know, now instead of throwing away a CD with a blackface soda, I think everybody's looking for an African-American artist,

that's great that I can get on the radio. That can be part of my stable. They'll be part of what we do at our label. And, you know, I love being, you know, wanted the catalyst for that. That's pretty cool. And what a cool line to draw the Charlie Pride Wreckers on in your house, and Charleston with your mom, and you follow in the footsteps of his

legacy. Absolutely. I mean, he became a good friend and just to be able to take what he'd done and take it a little further. And now we got Kane playing stadiums, taking leaving further. I mean, it's just, it's beautiful seeing. It's an

test, and it's a test to America. We always think we're going to hatred and all the stuff's going to keep. But at the bottom line, people just want great music. That's all they want. It's great music. A great song. I don't care what you look like, what you do. I want a great song, and that's what we try to give.

You keep giving it to them. Yeah. Stick around for more of my conversation with Darius Rucker right after a quick break. Welcome back now to the rest of my conversation with Darius Rucker. Got to ask you about Wagon Wheel. I was at City Field watching a Mets game on Sunday. And in like the fourth inning, they put up three

songs. What do you want to hear in the eighth inning stretch? It was wagon wheel on a couple of other ones. Come the eighth inning, it was like 89% wagon wheel, 5, 2% for the other day. Whatever it was. People loved that song. How big a deal was that for you

that song? Even people didn't follow necessarily your country career. Oh, I love that song. It's just a classic. It was just a great move. I mean, that was one of, like, I recorded that song so organically. Like, I was breaking my record. I went to see my daughter's talent show,

and the faculty bands playing Wagon Whale. Oh, really? Yeah, and I had heard it before, but the old crow version is such a bluegrass song. I never even thought about it as a country song. And there's bands playing it, like four teachers, two janitors. They're just a little bit just playing it. And I'll never get sitting there and go, wow, I've never heard it like that.

And I texted my producer. I said, Frank, remember Wagon Wheel? He said, yeah, I don't know if we want to cut that. I was like, man, Frank. I think we should cut it. We're cutting it. Let's cut it. And then we cut it and we put Lady A on it. And I thought it was a good song.

And then when Lady A got on it, I said, I said, this is a monster. And another funny thing, we put the first single out, and then we're talking about the second single and we're in a meeting. And two people stand up and go, we're not putting a wagon wheel out. We're not putting it out.

And they lost. And now, you know, what, 12, 13 million copies later? You know, the song is the third biggest selling record and country music history. And that's crazy. At some point these people might just start to trust your insides. Some of them are. Maybe Darius has this figured out.

Let's leave it to. So do you've, I mean, what a career you've had, what a life you've had. Are there other things out there that you want to do? I know you're not going to try, you know, punk next. You're not going to change your genres. But is there stuff still on the horizon for you that you still want to do musically, professionally? Absolutely.

One of those, you know, one of the big things I want to do is, you know, I want to do a big band thing. You know, I want to go to Vegas and do a residency with, you know, get Bram for Marcellus and go and do something really cool, something that's different. You know, don't go out and try to sing like Sancha, let's go out and do a show. And that's just something that's building and me and Graham and I are talking about it and more and more I want to do it. It's just because I love that music too.

Yeah. I mean, Sinatra's the man. The man. And I love that stuff. And that's something else I want to do. It's something down the road. But there's so much more I want to do. And when there's no more I want to do, that's when I think I'll go home and just sit down and play golf and laugh.

You've already played a lot of golf. I do play a lot of golf. I don't know how much. I don't know I'm going to play more. Do you want to confess to the number you told me earlier? I think I'm going to play 300 rounds this year. 300 rounds. That's crazy.

I know. That's crazy. We're going to write music and play shows. Golf is only, I play first tee time out. I was like, hey, nobody wants to write before noon. Morning is for golf. Exactly. Everything else after.

Everything else after that's amazing. Yeah. I was thinking about your rise and your career and everything you've done and given the title of your album, what Carolyn, your mother would think. As I said, she sadly passed away before the rocket ship really took off. Do you think about what she must be thinking somewhere? All the time. All the time. I think about two things.

I hope she's in heaven that looking down, being proud of me. And second of all I was going, she was alive, her house would be so much bigger than mine. She would have earned that. She'd earn that house. Her car would be nicer than mine. She'd be awesome. Whatever you want, Mom.

Whatever you want, Mom. How'd you could happen for sure. I mean, to have listened to all that music with you, to instilled it in you, and then to see what you've done with it. I just can't imagine what she's thinking somewhere. And that's really what it is. I mean, music was our life. She instilled all of my love for music came from her.

And all I've wanted to do since I was four was play music. And I'm 57 now. I've been doing it for 30 years on the big stage. It's just crazy. Crazy. I know she's proud of you. I like to think she is. Before I let you go, I need you to commit to a win total for the South Carolina Gamecocks this year.

Nine or more. Nine or more? Gamecock will win nine or more this year. So is that with the bowl game? We're going to throw the ass. Okay. Trying to help you out of all there. We might win the national championship this year.

It could happen. And win a Heisman. Spencer Rattel is going to Hizman. We're winning a national championship. You hurry in here. Willie! And now you don't know what's going to happen? We're going to be defeated.

Vanderbilt's going to beat us. We're coming to spoil that season. Well, we'll see you some. I don't know where we play, but we'll see it either at Columbia or Nashville. And if you're coming, let me know, we'll go hang out. Likewise. For sure. Great to talk.

Always great talking to you, man. Thanks so much. Always. I love talking to you, Willie. So much, fun. My big thanks again to Darius for a great conversation. You can pick up his album, Carolyn's Boy, wherever you get your music. And my thanks to all of you for listening again this week.

If you want to hear more of our conversations every week, be sure to click follow so you never miss an episode. And don't forget to tune in to Sunday today every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit Down podcast.