Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Diane Lane

Episode Date: October 3, 2021

At the age when most kids are finding their way around the halls of elementary school, Diane Lane was touring the world as an actress. By the time she was a teenager, she became a household name after starring alongside Laurence Olivier in the film A Little Romance. In this week’s “Sunday Sitdown,” Willie Geist gets together with the star to talk about her more than four decades on screen, including her latest role as the President of the United States in a new series that takes place in a post-apocalyptic, pandemic-stricken world. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks, as always, for clicking and listening along. Got another good one dialed up for you today. Just a great actress, incredibly classy actress and an actress who has seen it all. She began her career at six years old. She has an amazing personal story. I'm talking, of course, about the Oscar-nominated Diane Lane. We can go back to a little romance in 1978-79, where she co-starred.

at 14 years old with Lawrence Olivier. We can talk about the outsiders and all the Francis Ford Coppola movies she did. We can jump ahead to the perfect storm. We can jump to Unfaithful for which she was nominated for that Oscar for Best Actress. We can do Under the Tuscan Sun. I know I'm probably leaving out your favorite movie, but I think we should just let her talk about them instead of me. She's just great to talk with incredibly smart, interested in the world, super engaged,

has a lot on her mind about what's happening in the world right now and also has a new series out. It's called Why the Last Man. Premises, there's a cataclysmic event, let's call it, that wipes out anyone and anything with a Y chromosome on Earth. So let you do the math on that. All the men are gone. It's a world run by women except for one man who remains on the Earth. We don't want to spoil that. and she becomes the president of the United States.

She plays a congresswoman who ascends to the presidency when all the men are wiped out. It's based on a DC comic series from early 2000s. There was a bunch of them that about 15, 20 years ago. I should set the scene for you just a little bit. We are sitting in a restaurant called Porterhouse at Columbus Circle in New York City. If you know New York, it's right at the bottom of Central Park down in the southwest corner. behind me, the window that she was looking out, she saw the building where she first did an audition.

And that was for a little romance. In 1978, she auditioned for that movie when she was 13 years old. And just by pure chance, she looked over my shoulder. She said, my gosh, that's basically where my career began. So I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did right now on the Sunday Sit Down podcast with Diane Lane. Thank you for doing this, Diane. Great to see you. Thank you for having me.

Thank you for letting me do this with you. Yes, for our fake meal that we're having together. Or maybe there will be one later. Maybe we can, you know. Stay long enough. They'll bring out some food. I was just telling you, I just got finished with episode two of why the last man. It's a great premise to begin with.

You're fantastic in it. Thank you. And I'm curious what you thought when this sort of idea came to just the concept and we're going to do a series about it. Were you immediately interested or did you need some explaining? Well, I thought you're asking me to, oh, and now for something completely different, you know, which is sort of fun because that's what I do. I get to try on different ideas. And that was what attracted me was the amount of zeitgeisty, controversial global world building, world recovering issues. And who knew how much, uh, Life was going to be sort of brushing up very closely against art or maybe the other direction, art against life, the bleedover of themes that, I mean, this was the brainchild of a man.

And it was not that long after 9-11 and 2001. And I think he was trying to get, I've read a quote from Brian K. Vaughn and he said, He was trying to imagine what a world of women would do with this level of confrontation about can we unify, can a crisis bring us together? And what would that look like and would it be even better? And what would the expectations be placed upon a different gender of leadership? Period. You know, period and stop in a way. meaning the world has higher expectations placed upon women in a lot of ways.

And will they live up to it? So it was almost like, I think he, maybe he was triggered by somebody saying, oh, if the world were only led by women. Right. And then you think, well, let's dig into that a little bit. What would it be like? So that's the journey we take in a quote-unquote woman-only world after the demise of 50% of the population, the Y chromosome.

You know, we call it men, and the title, of course, says, why the last man? So it's not a big surprise. It's not a spoiler alert. But there's double entendres even on the title. Why? Well, what does that mean? Well, why is the first letter of my son's name? Oh, so your son survives.

So not every man. And what is a man, by the way? How do we delineate what that term gender roles? What do we delineate by how would a woman behave in a leadership role? Would she be up to the task? All those kinds of unspoken pressures are on the characters to deliver, and they're very diverse characters, which makes it a fun world, and it's an ensemble. So it's not my show, but I wanted to be part of a world-building show

and see where it was going to lead because there's so much great source material in the graphic novels. Like I say, I'm two episodes in, and I still have so many questions that I know you're not going to give away today. What is this thing? What exactly happened?

How did your son survive? There's so much in the air still that will carry through the length of the series. I was interested to read that this was your first series as a series regular where you're leading the show, which I thought she's done a bunch of TV

and about your film, but she's never done this. Is there some appeal to doing, okay, this streaming thing that everyone's on and I'm the lead, and we can see this through a bunch of episodes to tell a story, much different than making a film, obviously? Well, I'm a sucker for a dare. I can own that. And I wanted the experience of doing something completely different in my craft, which a lot of people have become extremely comfortable with,

and that is not knowing what the writing is that you're setting yourself up to fulfill. because you can't read that far in advance. It can't be written that far in advance necessarily. I mean, some shows do, I suppose, when they're... Every show has its own kismet, its own correlation to reality and gets people talking around the proverbial water cooler, which is now social media, which, of course, I demure away from. I feel grandfathered into another era.

Smart. Can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. I'm fine with that. Because you have to live or die by that sword, you know, and I'm just going to pretend that that parallel universe doesn't mean as much to me as, of course, it does. You're not missing much. Well, apparently a lot. I mean, you know, used to walk into a job interview and it would talk about your foreign stock. She's big in Japan and Germany, and that might mean something.

And now it's how many people do you bring with you into the room that are your regular followers on the Internet? Is that explicit or just implied? Like, who's your audience? The younger generation have grown up with that being explicit for them. And they have to maintain that. And I just didn't want to have that much more responsibility. I felt I had plenty just maintaining what I was already familiar with as far as the job title of being an actress in the world. And it's a great opportunity to do some.

One of the things that I love to do is to look at work in terms of the conversations that grow out of what were you thinking when you took this role. Why this, why now? And this was, it's so complicated to answer this question. But it's also very timely because of the many things that have occurred. in the world, I mean, when I read this originally, well, first of all, I have Googled how many women have portrayed the U.S. President. I had to do it. So, apparently, I'm number 18.

Okay. You know. Our 18th president. I mean, yeah. And I have some very dear friends who have already portrayed this character, whatever we have in our mind's eye of the leader of the most important leader of the free world and all of. those, you know, self-aggrandizing, and rightfully so, the role of President of the United States has been a very big trigger point for a lot of people for a long time. And suffice it to say that when I was describing to people when we were shut down in the pandemic

and we were dealing with so many changes in the world, global, and yet, but also very sort of tethered to who is president and what that looks like. And what does that say about our country? I would tell my friends, well, our show deals with the global pandemic. And 50% of the, relatively speaking, 50% of the population doesn't make it. And it happens within an extremely brief moment of time. So it's an event. It's not a drawn-out process that we all get to wrap our heads around or try to survive.

So there's that, but also being the present within that world. And so people would look at me like, oh, I see why you have a little stress around this job you're taking on. And then when we finally got to film it, it was a relief because when you're in the starting gate before something, you're like a racehorse. You get all, woo-hoo, you want to just. Get it. Let's do this thing. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, this was, as you say, written. These are based on books for people who don't know after 9-11. I think the first one came out in 2002. And there were more after that. But my gosh, it's about a pandemic. There are echoes of what happened in this country on January 6th of civil society. Sort of disintegrating before our eyes. The frame changes the art always. You could put a piece of art, even if it's not art. If you frame it in a certain way, people. People will say, well, that's art.

You know, so I mean that metaphorically because if you look at a piece of news that's archival and what to us as archival could be 15 minutes in today's world, social media didn't even exist when these books were written. So, I mean, if it did, it was some infantile version. It was Pong, you know, I mean, a little better, but there's a reference. I'm with you on the early Atari days. I can play pinball. That's where I drop off the map. But, yeah, so it is an interesting tapestry of what were we thinking. Who do we think we are?

That literal question, I make a joke about when I work sometimes get a case of, oh, I have a case of who the hell do I think I am? You know, are you really going to take this on? it's easier sometimes to portray somebody who's really existed in history, then you can say, well, she did it. I'm portraying something that really happened. And this seemed so far-fetched. And it doesn't seem as far-fetched any longer. Science fiction became much less fiction,

and science became very important to our daily lives in a way that we didn't think was going to happen in our generation, in our time of being alive. But pandemics are always just, what, about 2.3 generations behind, just enough out of the peripheral vision for us to have a conscious memory of, what would that be like? And the presidents keep warning us. They kept saying, well, in a pandemic, we need to have these systems in place. And then not so much, right when we needed it.

So to play the president confronting it was very prescient, very zeitgeisty, even more than I bargained for when I signed on. Unfortunately, it was impression. What did you want to bring to a representation of a woman being president? Because this is, there she is. Well, wearing my patriotic colors. Yes, I know. It's that very nice.

Bringing the devil entendres. But as you say, it is important to show what a woman would be like sitting in that chair, standing there and making all those decisions. What did you want to bring to this representation of the President of the United States? Well, of course, the humanity of it. the shared experience of it. The line of succession was decimated by the amount of death. And the amount of grieving that she has, in order to be a good leader,

you have to be the best follower in a way. Because you wind up boots on the ground figuring out what needs to be done, and you're getting it done until suddenly people are turning to you saying, go to the busiest person in the room if you want to get something done. That's usually how. leadership roles evolve. That doesn't mean that's how they trickle down and you become anointed to the task because some group of people in a back room choose you. So she wasn't chosen. She wasn't voted in. So there's a lot of controversy around inheriting the job that she wasn't

voted for. And so, hey, that's prescient too this year. Voting became very important. and the controversy around our votes considered authentic. The process, once you begin to have doubt enter into that conversation, now you've tilted the conversation into what is reality, and once you get people to question what reality is, now you're playing with deep-rooted societal potential uprisings, like you were saying, alternate facts and all of these sorts of things. So doubt can be commodified.

And we deal with that in our show in terms of our story. There's a lot of controversy around her being present. I don't want to say me, her. And it covers a lot because the conspiracies, in our case, are true. She is the mother of the only surviving Y chromosome man. right, as far as we know, for at least the first season. And that being the case, is she acting when she's trying to console the massive scale of grief? Because she has this big secret.

Now, this is not a spoiler alert. It's the title of the show. So I feel entitled to have this conversation with you. But, yes, the inner journey of this woman who is struggling to lead while she knows she's violated her ethics in order to do what's right for the world, which is if you have a survivor, don't you want to try to make it possible for there to be more than just one survivor? So what does that mean? Is her son going to become an experimental guinea pig for the future of the species? I mean, we're talking about procreative rights. Well, suddenly

sperm is a big commodity, and it's coming out of our mouths a lot because we want our species to survive. And it's no longer about every precious egg and every precious woman. It's about we got to get a hold of what's in those sperm banks because we have to continue the species. And we're having frank, honest conversations about the commodification of men. That's a head turner, because we talk about women and the commodification of their bodies, don't we? Yeah. I liked that. I thought that was an interesting.

And that came out of the brain of a man who, you know, has the equipment to have those conversations. So I'm just, I'm fascinated by the writing and all of the intersections that it... There's a lot in there. Yeah. You lay it out that way. It's all. It's a lot. And then the January 6th thing too, which, you know, so triggering for the globe.

You've spent a bunch of time in the halls of Congress. as an activist, and I want to talk to you about that in just a moment. A small bunch, but legally, yes, I have been to the halls of cards. Yes, you have. There's photos, too. Yes, there are. I've seen them. But you, in my day job, I cover politics, and just the way you sort of carry yourself as a congresswoman.

There's some Nancy Pelosi in the way you walk down the hall and you're surrounded by your staff and your reporters. Did you, your relationships with people who serve, did that, did you bring some of that to understand what it means to be in a position of power? politically. Well, we watch how they are performing. They are performing a role. They are performing a task, a job, an assignment. And, you know, I'm the daughter of the captain of the debate team of Culver Military Academy. So I know a little.

I gleaned a little without actually having to go to Culver Military Academy and pass the white glove test and all of that. And he didn't have a son. He had a daughter. So being raised by that man and him putting his hand on my back and saying, you know, could be president of the United States. I'm just saying, could be. And I'd look at him at me, I was seven years old. Like, dad, that's a little pressure and I'm not your son. So go dream your dream.

But it's a little pressure. Yeah, leave me out of it. Yeah. It's very sweet. But, you know, when your dad believes in you, that puts a lot of fuel in your tank for life. And I think dads give a tremendous amount to their daughters, and it's no small thing. So I want to give them credit for my audacity to play this part, and also to say there is the vision in men that they appreciate women, and they would like for them to maximize their potential because they do bring something to the table.

that is definitely an improvement on the human condition. Not going to fill in the blanks and tell you what that is. I'm not the preacher or the knower, but I see a need for it. And, you know, I had a dad who believed in me, so I have enough audacity to bring the little things that I believed in to the Congress people who were willing to meet with me and talk about the issues. And those were conservation issues about.

about the health of our oceans at that point. There's always some legislation, right, that needs help to get the ear of the people who actually turn these things into law. That was my secret ambition when I was a child was to become a lawyer who could help make laws like that. That all saying, there ought to be a law. Remember that from the 50s? Sure. Or what's the big deal? All those things.

And I internalized that, and I thought there is a big deal, and there ought to be a law. And maybe we need more Congresspeople because things, we need laws to catch up to the reality of our, of our planet. We only have one. Are you heartened in some ways that climate change has, month by month, year by year has become a much more important issue. You just look at polling 20 years ago, or 10 years ago even. It was way down the list. And all of a sudden, largely because of a younger generation who's lived with its impacts, it is front and center more, not enough. But are you heartened by progress?

I mean, I am heartened by it, but I also, I'm a humorist. And I see the, I see the timing being very interesting that the billionaires are taking off in their rocket ships. And I just start to look at the timeline that that required. And I found it darkly humorous that right before the shocking floods. or between the shocking floods that were traumatizing to everyone, and certainly the people who were impacted by them personally, across Europe and in New York City, my hometown, this year, between those two events, the billionaires went up in their marketing of,

let's move to another planet, as if that's a plan B. I mean, just as if. So they're asking a lot of us to have the science fiction or belief in the science enough in the fiction that we can pollinate other planets. There's been plenty of science fiction shows about that. When I tell people that I'm in a science fiction show, there's no spacecraft. We're not leaving.

We're not giving up on our planet yet. But, yeah. Well, you can add the wildfires to that as well. Oh, please. With everything, I mean, it's every day. I mean, the smoke is here from L.A. where I left. I'm living it. We're all, there's no destination where you can run

and escape the effects of our species upon the planet. So I've often joked and said, we're the parasite, you know. And it's not a bad thing. You know, we have a relationship with our mother planet, but it's the byproduct of parasites that take down the host. Do you see that? Yeah. So I think we have to be better shepherd.

and it's going to take a big shift. And I think that Al Gore knew a lot about what Exxon knew back when he said, inconveniently, this is what's coming. He's already done a sequel. So I'm not living in denial. And there's a lot of people who are confronting what it means to them on a personal level, their families, their children, their future, their industry. And I don't know what the reckoning is going to be,

but we have very limited time to wake up and get on board with the changes that need to be made. When you do go to Capitol Hill and you knock on the door of Congress people, do you find they're at least more aware of the problem, are they more receptive to it? It doesn't feel like some radical tree-hugging idea anymore that the middle of the country understands that this is a problem because it's happening in front of our eyes every day. Yeah. Well, you know, people are worried about refugees, and I'm thinking from where? Other countries? How about our own country? Because this is science and this is real, and people need to survive and live. And people are scared of the conversations. And, you know, people don't want to say things that are scary. I can say things that are scary. I'm not needing to be voted in. You can tune into the show or not.

But, you know, when you have constituents and you have to be running for office so often, I think the two-year cycle is not right for Congress people. It's too much needing of financing. And that puts you in a very precarious position if you're going to be lawmakers in our country. Yeah, the minute you get elected, you start dialing for dollars to get elected again the next time. It's an interesting system that we have as a government. So you've got a lot of fans who have, listen to the next time. to you. What would you say to them about what we need to do different day to day? Forget the big

macro, but how do we make a dent in this as we go about our lives? Well, I mean, I didn't bring my book. I was going to bring it and show it to you. It's a sweet book, and you can talk about it or not, but it's not even, sweet is not the right name, but I have a sweet spot in my heart for it, and it's called What Can We Do? Actually, it's called What Can I Do? And it's Jane Fonda's book, and it's all about her experiences going out of her comfort zone and allowing her fame to mean something on this planet while she's here. And she wants us to all wake up and do what we can. And people are panicked, and they don't say, what can I do? So she literally goes through.

She's so practical. That's what I love about Jane, among many things I love about Jane. So sure, I went and got arrested for the cause of bringing attention to the conversation. But the conversation is manifold. It's not just recycle or get the plastics out of the ocean or we have species that are leaving. Everybody gets so scared. They want to go hide under the table and have a cocktail. So do I.

But is it going to be our children? So I want us to wake up together and hold hands and make it a positive movement. That's my dream. If I had one, it would be time to get optimistic because we don't have a time for pessimism. There's no room at the table for the pessimists. And going to Mars doesn't really move me. Sorry. Some people, it does.

And they're going to pay a lot and look at our earth. And I hope when they come back from their trips, they'll see the preciousness. And maybe they'll get it in a way that will help. Maybe their money will help finance things. That's my hope. is the people who have extraordinary wealth will help finance turning the tide with the lawmakers. Wouldn't that be nice? Yeah.

I think one reason for optimism is that I have a 12-year-old and a 14-year-old who are born into and are growing up in a world where to them, climate change is a fact. It's not a theory. Yeah. And it's what they're taught. Yeah. And they see it more on the news and certainly you or I did growing up. It hasn't been politicized for that.

I said, well, yes, this is happening. Here's what needs to happen. So maybe that's one reason for optimism. It's this generational turnover. They don't have to be convinced of it. Right. Most of them anyway. Right.

It didn't come into their life midstream. You know, like that's my joke about social media. Look, computer came into my life and I was in my 30s. I had a four-year-old. And I'm thinking, you want me to what? I'm supposed to what? Okay, I'll learn this new thing. So I already feel like I did my bit, but now the tech keeps changing.

And I'm not sure that we need all this new. stuff all the time. I mean, maybe we, maybe big tech needs to help us do something besides get a new gizmo every 10 minutes depleting whatever it's depleting and filling whatever it's filling with when we throw it away or whatever. So these things need to be thought about at the higher levels. One thing Jane pointed out and it's been, it's true, is that they make the individual feel bad, but they're supplying us with plastic everything. And there is a they. You cannot make plastic without oil. And they're getting ready to make more and more plastic, not less.

It's very insidious. You can't make a car without plastic. I mean, so we have to revisit and make things so they can be reusable and share more and include more people in our family, I think. Now I'm going to run for office. I was going to say, this is it. This is your campaign launch right here. I'll vote for you.

Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday, Sit Down Podcast. Stick around to hear more from Diane Lane right after the break. Welcome back to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Now more of my conversation with Diane Lane. I didn't realize until you walked in here, but we're surrounded right now by Diane Lane memories. I mean, where shall we begin?

Midtown, you look out these windows. Somebody had a good raise in the Midtown, right? I went to PS-59, which is on 57th Street. It's the heart of Midtown to me. And, of course, it's a Whole Foods now. There's so much I could say about that. But anyway, yeah, so that's the building where I had my first audition. It was the Gulf and Western building.

When I say first audition of the job I got, there were plenty of auditions that I've had that I've completely blocked out. Because who wants to remember those? Those don't count. This is a little romance, your first first film? That was 1978. So you walk into that room at 13 years old. What was that like? Well, you work your way up.

So it was the assistant casting director, which was Gretchen Rennel. And then she said, I think she's pretty good, I guess. And I came back. And I can say it was Marion Doherty, because Marion, I spoke in her documentary all about her because she started so many careers. So I finally made it to be in front of the director. George Roy Hill, amazing, amazing director. I mean, this is, this was the era when film directors were also other things, much like politicians. You know, you didn't, we weren't a career only this.

You were a career also, these other things. And, I mean, he was the leader of his squadron in the Air Force and PhD in music. And he made these amazing films. So he just was a presence, and I think he and Marion had a little friendship that extended, you know, and so they'd complete each other's sentences, and they'd talk about me in front of me, and I thought, oh, I think I might have to be doing well. So I was in a play down at the public theater called Runaways, and he was able to come and see me perform.

And I was a kid. insecure kid and I knew he was coming and dad knew that was going to happen and he said well we're going to prepare for that okay and what we're going to do is I'm going to come this is my acting coach dad okay I was like you kidding I'm going to do this oh dad I really don't want to it's like the cobbler's children have no shoes I would not take any advice from my father who knows a hell of a lot and he says I'm going to come to the play and I'm going to sit in the audience and you're going to look me right in the eye and say whatever the line is that I say at the point in the play. I was like, Dad, that's the worst advice ever. You want me to break the fourth

wall with you? And that's a rehearsal for when the director comes, and it'll throw me off my game. And it's so, I don't know, I thought it was very blatant and very manipulative. And I don't know if I did it or not. I think I succeeded in doing it with Dad, but not with George. But I got the part, so that's my little memories, is what I have left in my memories at that time. I mean, it's pretty archival stuff at this point. For people who don't know, you've been acting, I mean, you're 13, 14 years old, and you've been already acting since you were like six years old. That is true.

With your dad, right? It sounds so unsavory and like I was some circus animal. With your dad nudging you along. Yeah. What were the roles like leading up to, okay, this movie is my big moment, my breakout? You know, I, it sounds like a joke when I say it, that I peaked when I was 10. But in some ways, I did because I had. I had been traveling the world with the La Mama Experimental Theater Group, and it was the 70s,

and it was very early 70s. 72 was the first tour, and so, I mean, that I was on as a kid, and so I was seven, and my parents didn't go, and my first passport, I had no front teeth, and it was considered very cute, and it was, it's strange to grow up in the adult world when you're the kid in the room. Because if you know too much, you're considered precocious, right? But they expect you to know a lot in order to fulfill the task and be a team player and be responsible and don't screw up and make the plane and don't lose your prudium or whatever or just little things that are life lessons that you learn in the company, literally, of your theater company.

So it was like joining the circus. It was like running away and touring the world with young people in the 70s. And it was in much more innocent time. So my dad and mom let me have that experience. I wouldn't have the courage as a parent to let my very young kid have that. I don't know. They were extraordinary people, honestly, to trust the universe as much as they did. And I think it was a happy, quote unquote, ending.

because childhood ends at one point. And it was a wonderful experience. Life by living, life by doing, life by traveling. I got to see so many different cultures. I got to be humble and learn what they mean by the ugly American when it's not we, you're a they. And you get to see how America impacts the rest of the world and how they come off and their foreign policies.

And you say, it's a big old world out there. it's almost like there's an embargo on international news here. I want to know more about what's happening in other countries, but we're so obsessed with ourselves. America is quite a vain country, honestly. And you're learning this at 8, 9, 10 years old. Yeah. Yeah.

Before most kids encounter that. Well, we were exporting things to foreign countries from TV, and I'd say, why are we exporting those shows? We could be really projecting a better image of ourselves to these countries. Some of those sitcoms maybe not our best foot forward over there. Yeah, or things to, you know, the countries that have oil and we're reporting these shows about Texas. And it's, do they think that we're really like that? I don't know that they realize that we're kidding about ourselves.

They miss the humor, then we're in big trouble. Right. They think we are this. They think we like these people. I think we're J.R. Ewing. Yeah. I was thinking about you because I have a 14-year-old daughter. After a little romance becomes a hit, you're 14.

you're on the cover of Time magazine. Lawrence Olivier is saying you're the next Grace Kelly. What did all that feel like to a 14-year-old? Well, I remember approaching the newsstand. We had newsstands, kiosks in the street, and they used to have, there weren't so many magazines then. So one magazine, you'd have 10 of them at a row. You know, and I guess 1978, I mean, you'd have,

I'm not going to list the magazines, but Time Magazine always had the upper right-hand corner as if it were dog-eared and you'd see a photograph of some world leader. And in my case, it was Henry Kissinger. And I thought, this is really bizarre. This is a very surreal experience. I'm clearly having an out-of-body experience and this two shall pass. And I thought about birdcage liner. And I thought, it's just paper.

It's not going to, don't allow this to. mean anything to me because I knew it wasn't about merit. I could trace back how it was that I wound up on the cover of Time magazine. And it wasn't because I had done anything. It was because I was an anomaly. And it was a curiosity to have people that young in the film industry as a new wave of culture and cinema. And I thought, oh, oh, interesting. But I knew that it wasn't going to be I mean, we're still dining out on the story literally because Time Magazine usually is about a very meritorious person. Sure. Right?

And I felt a little embarrassed, honestly, because I was playing handball over under the 59th Street Bridge thinking, I have no business for the Time Magazine. This is crazy. I'm sure my dad was thrilled, you know, as my kid, you know. Of course. But I was sitting there going, please don't ask me to live up to that. But where did you get the wisdom to have that perspective? at 14 years old because it seems... Growing up around adults, probably.

No filter from people around me. So I could... Children have X-ray. Children are capable of a lot. I mean, they're also capable of great... Nothing can be meaner than a kid in a way. It'd run amok. But the tempered innocence,

you lose innocence as you grow. And then you start to value. your own innocence. And that was working with George Roy Hill. That's what he said about his movies. That they're always about innocence. The loss of innocence of the main character. So he saw the theme in his own work. That's really, that's cool when you're not, he didn't have to audition for his job. You could create your own job. It's different when you're an actress. You sort of go, is this going to be the one? Do I feel like I want to do this? It's different than writing it and having a vision for the end product. I'm sort of a tapestry thread, you know, and how they edit it,

and how they put the music and the credits and how they promote it. It's all out of my hands, and I like it that way, because if I were in control, then I'd have to take all the blame. You know, it's not worth the credit. It's too big a risk. That's so interesting, right? It is interesting. Because you could say, well, what's the next one? Right. Next. Right. It's okay. I mean, it feels like watching your, career even to now, you do have this perspective on what it means to be a movie star. I'm sure you don't like that term or a celebrity and that it doesn't really interest you that much.

Well, it does in terms of what people like Jane Fonda have done with it, meaning if you live a long time and you can add, you know, something to humanity in terms of what you've done with your fame. Right. That I think is value. But the things you went through as a child, becoming a child star, can ruin people, obviously. And then you're in Coppola movie. They push it through and you have this incredible young career,

but you survive it and then some. And you're being nominated for- Isn't it interesting that they use the word survive? Yeah. Well, because there are some people don't. Because it is a gauntlet of potential bad choices that you're not even supposed to be aware enough to make good or bad choices. It's all luck.

Or some person in the background who's a marionette and you're the puppet and there's strings being pulled that allow you to have good fortune compared to somebody else. One of the things my dad said to me, as he knew he was dying, he said, you know, isn't it enough, Diane? Don't you think it's somebody else's turn? Because he's brutal.

My dad was famously brutal. Hence an acting teacher. Cut you asunder, right, in a way that nobody else can or you wouldn't allow anybody else to. And it was almost like saying, are you going to keep going? I knew he was daring me to keep after it.

He wanted me to have one of those lifer-type careers. And you have, right? Yeah, but here you are. Am I supposed to go into 30 years? Jane, tell me how to do it. She's such a rock star. I mean, she's the age of my deceased mother, if she were still alive. So I, you know, she's a role model to a lot of us gals.

So what's the secret if somebody's watching right now to keep that ball in the air, the way you have, to have had all these phases where you go... Being open to change. Really? Yeah. I think so. Being open to change. I mean, the human body is very humbling.

And if you're a woman, you certainly are aware of the way change is part of your fate because there's only a window of time within which you can procreate. And that is such a blessing. And it is also a measure of worth that men don't experience. And it is also a tremendous gift because in some ways get to be born fresh. I got to watch my terms because my grandmother was a Pentecostal preacher. I don't want to get into trouble. But you can be born freshly in your own self-understanding by not internalizing any longer the male gaze.

Unless you want to. Right. Unless it's fun for you now. And you can do it your way on your terms. And so I'm watching. women these days, and I'm very heartened by the diversity of representation that is accessible to young people today. And I know that social media is considered toxic.

I know that because that's why I don't do it. I can't imagine if I were 15 and being subjected to that. When I was 14 years old, I'm promoting a little romance, and I would do photo sessions with like Scavulo and all these fantastic famous names in the fashion world, I was so insecure. I'm not business being a model. I'm 5-5. I'm not tall. And I'm two bucks. I'm not long, long, long, long, super long. So when I met with, um, I lean forward, you know, she looked me over and she said, how old are you? She was trying to gauge if I was going to grow, taller. And I think she turned somebody to say, pity about her neck, you know. And, and I was allowed to leave the room. I don't think I even spoke. And so, or maybe I did, and walked it out. And how old are you? 14, 15 years old? Oh, I was like 11 then.

Oh, my gosh. Something like that. Wow. Gamine, très gamine. You know, you were still a little French fry. Right. So, it's okay. But see, it takes strength.

You have to be able to come up against all these things that want you to internalize them and make you an insecure person. See, every little lesson that you get and being able to change and adapt and not let it define you is, It's the goal for women, I think. And you've been consistent. Was it gratifying in that run, sort of perfect storm, unfaithful, under the Tuscan Sun to just have this people knew you from a little romance and they knew you along the way and then here she is again, you know?

John Cusack and I made a film together. And we sat in the trailer at one point and he said something that I'm going to quote and he's going to have to forgive me because maybe he would disagree with himself at this point. And there were these books on the table and he says, I think we're the coffee table book actors. We make everybody feel super comfy, cozy. We've been there since they were 12. They are now, whatever age they are,

and we're still here, and they know they're okay because we're still here. And I thought, I can work with that. I'm not ashamed of that at all. I bring it, because we want to see what else you got. And that's part of the reason I chose this show is because it's so completely fresh and different for me as a show, even if I were just watching it.

So to think of myself in it, get a little squirrelly, but that's the fun of it. You're supposed to do the work that scares you. It's funny when I interviewed him for this show a couple of months ago. He was saying sometimes he'll be watching TV and he'll come across a movie on cable. And he said, it's like looking at your old yearbook photos. Who is that guy? What is up with your hair?

Who is that guy? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you ever come across your old? stuff when you're watching TV or do you... Well, I call it my young stuff. Yeah. Right. You get cuts both ways. I mean, sure, I do.

And I always want to break the mold. I mean, when you're an actor, you want to be able to disappear into something as much as you're allowed or have the courage or can pull off. You know, I remember I'm trying to remember the actor's name

I want to get it right. But I remember watching The Elephant Man on Broadway and thinking, okay, now that is, my hat is off. It's never coming back on my head. My hat is so off to the ability and bravery of actors. I think it's an incredibly noble profession, and I did not used to think back. I used to really poo-poo my profession because I grew up in it. You know, wherever you grow up, you have to leave. And this pandemic, actors got me through it.

And of course the crew and everybody that makes actors shine. But they're the ones on camera. Everything that makes that moment possible, yes. But the actors get us through it. And the comfort we have taken from watching the shows, whatever your show is, secret pleasures or popular pleasures or whatever they may be. but my hat's off to the profession because we're able to increase our compassion and have diverse experiences vicariously and expand our imagination and our sense of what's

possible for ourselves. We feel seen. They're championing something that we wish we could champion, so we have champions now. It's an amazing craft. And I see why so many people want to break in. and I'm glad for my daughter because there's a lot more access. She's into it, right? She's into it.

And you've encouraged her? You know, I discouraged her. Oh, you did? I think most people in my profession discouraged their offspring. You know too much. I know too much. And she has seen behind the curtain in Oz, as I call it. And after graduating Gallatin, NYU,

and after her journalist's education, this is the real storytelling in a way. In a way. And I think I have the sense that she's going to morph into writing things. That's my, every parent has a fantasy. They project onto their kids. So forgive me, Eleanor. But I think she's got it in her to be sort of the,

I always say you can replace an actor. They're the most replaceable thing in a way. But you can't replace the writing. That is, if it's not on the page, How do you expect that to get to the stage? It's got to be in the writing. And I think she's incredibly gifted. And of course, she can act.

She's beautiful. That's fine. But I still think that, oh, write something for actors to do forever. You know, then to me that's the highest hype. Or you can do both. She could do both. She could do both. Well, congratulations on the series.

It's outstanding and it's just fun to walk through your career because it's been so amazing. Well, I'm a fan of you. Thank you, Willie. It's been an honor to speak with you today. Nice to see you. My big thanks again to Diane for a great conversation. You can catch her new series, Why the Last Man, streaming now on FX on Hulu.

And my thanks to all of you for tuning in again this week. If you want to hear more of these conversations with my guests every week, be sure to click subscribe so you never miss an episode. And don't forget to tune in to Sunday today on your television set, every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit Down podcast.