Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Elizabeth Banks

Episode Date: November 7, 2021

Elizabeth Banks decided a long time ago she would control her own destiny in Hollywood. In her two decades on screen, Banks has earned three Emmy nominations, starred in the Hunger Games franchise and produced all three of the Pitch Perfect movies which together made more than 600 million dollars at the box office. In this week’s “Sunday Sitdown,” Willie Geist gets together with Banks to talk about her podcast and new business venture into canned wine.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks, as always, for clicking and listening along. Got a great one for you today with one of the most talented and delightful people in all of Hollywood. I'll just say it. Elizabeth Banks. Who doesn't love Elizabeth Banks? She's got so much going on. Always does, always has.

She's got her own production company called Brownstone Productions. One of the first things they ever did, I think it was their second production, was a little movie called Pitch Perfect. They bought the rights. She and her husband, Max, who started this company together almost 20 years ago, bought the rights to pitch perfect. This book, a nonfiction book about Acapella Quires, and the rest is history. Three phenomenal movies that have made more than $600 million. She directed part two. She's a producer and actor in all of them. And it's all part of this sort of through line in her career of creating opportunity for herself.

She's had a lot of great Emmy-nominated roles on TV shows, but supporting. rolls, 30 Rock, modern family, scrubs, and thought, if I'm going to control my own destiny, I'm going to start my own production company and make the things that I want to make. And she's done that. To go along with that, she now has her own line of wine in a can. It's called Archer Ruse. You'll hear the story of how that came about. And she also has a new podcast on Audible called My Body, My Podcast, where she talks very

openly and very explicitly about women's bodies. about sex, and really these conversations you'll hear us talk about that we need to have out in the open that have been taboo for too long. So I'll set the scene for a little bit. We're top floor of a hotel. It's kind of a bar, restaurant, big windows looking out into midtown Manhattan, sitting across from each other, each on a couch, table between us, and just a variety of her delicious wine. It's my kind of interview, and the first thing you do is to pop a can of wine. I think I had the bubbly, kind of a seltzer jam. She had the rosé.

There's a Sauvignon Blanc. She's got all kinds of stuff. I'll let her tell you about it. And we just chopped it up and talked about her super interesting career, what drives her, how she creates these opportunities for herself. So I hope you enjoy the time you get to spend with Elizabeth Banks, because I sure did. Here she is right now, Elizabeth Banks on the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Thanks for doing this, Elizabeth. Good to see you.

It's so nice to be seen and be in New York. I've not been to New York in two years. Oh, is that right? Yeah, since pre-pandemic. What's it like to be back? It feels great. It's got, it is, the city is brimming with energy, and I walked around last night, and I'm just, yeah, loving it. It's nice to feel it again, isn't it?

It really is. It's nice to be out amongst people and not be scared to death because I'm vaccinated. Me too. Oh, me too. Yeah, some of the stuff is coming back. Like, if I had walked here, it would have taken me five minutes. minutes, but I drove, so it took a half an hour. So I was like, oh, we're back. There's traffic. It's aggravating, all the things that New York offers. Yeah, exactly. Well, we have a ton to talk about.

Okay. I think we should start right here on the table with Archer Ruse. Artcher Ruse. How did you get involved with this delicious treat? Archer Ruse, wine in a can. Good wine in a can, I should say. So female founder, I was really interested in putting my money where my mouth was. So I hired a diverse female money manager, and we were looking for companies to get involved with that sort of reflected my values. I think that's something we're all trying to do right now is live a sort of purpose-driven life, if we can. And apparently my purpose is wine in a can. No, I was saying that it was sent to me, and one of the first places I enjoyed Archer-Ruse was floating down a river in Utah, you know, with the, it was just like riding. And I thought, yeah, okay, I get how this

fits into my life, you know, and I send some of my sister and my sister said, you know that like Sunday afternoon when you're at the nine-year-old soccer game, Archerooze. That's a marketing campaign that every parent can get behind. Exactly. So, look, what I love about it is it's an innovation in packaging more than anything. So there's, I think wine is very traditional. It's It's very old school. It's been around for 10,000 years. And cork is not really sustainable. It's why a lot of things are twist top.

And then this is the sort of evolution of that. You know, the other thing I found in my own life, too, is that if I opened to the bottle of wine at night, I mean, don't waste it, you know, and suddenly it's too much. I don't need to drink a bottle of wine. This is the perfect amount. This is an actual glass. Four of these make up a bottle. So I really loved the innovation and packaging.

I love that we could democratize wine, bring really good wine to a lot more people and an affordable price. And also, I really feel like I'm doing an ad right now. Keep going. It's working. But also that there's this storytelling around wine that only crappy wine comes packaged like this or in boxed wine or whatever. And that's just not the case any longer. And I think being able to sort of say to people like, no, this is actually a delicious glass of wine in a can. It feels like a nice new story. for people and I think opens up the category of wine to more people. I've definitely been wine shamed in my life, you know? I'm not a fancy person. I don't know a lot about wine, honestly.

I just really liked this and I loved the, I loved how it fit into my lifestyle. Their marketing team was brilliant. Wait till she's floating down a river in Utah and get it in her hands. Yeah, we're sitting in that soccer game. Yeah, it's, it's coming quite handy. So is this your favorite then? The rosé. I'm going to crack this. Oh, I should we do it? Yeah. midday. I'm not worried about it. Okay. And you are right. Yours is bubbly, so it will bubble. I just dumped half a bottle of wine down the...

You'd end up driving down. Because you open it and then it's a week later. So you, cheers. Thank you. Salute. The other thing we do is we package the wine at the source. So our rosé is from Provence, France, where France. I get in trouble for saying France. See, I'm not fancy. Say France.

My husband makes fun of me for saying France. What's, how are you supposed to say? I don't know more France. No, no. I don't know how to say France. France, you got it. So, which is where rosé is from, and we do the same, the bubblies from Italy. Yeah, we have an Argentinian wine.

So we're at the source working with the vintners. We tell you everything about the wine on the back. So we also, one of the first in class, to actually put our ingredients on it. You'd be surprised why people don't want to put the ingredients on their wine, right? Interesting. But it really should just be grapes. That's it. That's all I got here.

Grapes. Grapes and a little preservative. Yeah, some sulfites. That's it. So were you looking to get into beverages or just looking for business opportunities in general? I was looking for business opportunities in general. But I also knew it had to feel authentic to me. Yeah.

Right? I couldn't, I don't know. There's lots of things that you could get involved with that don't feel as authentically me. I'm this, I mean, truly, when I got the call, it's like, it's wine and it. can and literally my my rep was like that feels like you I thought you know me so well tell me more um and it's good wine in a can it's authentically me yeah it's really tasty honestly and the bubbly is great as a spritz you can add it to things right apparel and other you know well i've got some children sporting events coming up so look out for the thermos this is it comes um you mentioned

that the founder was from Massachusetts yes marian liner that that probably didn't hurt right did not her. I love a hometown story. I'm from Massachusetts, and if I can be connected to those roots, I love doing so. And it did help, yeah. There's like an unspoken language there. We have a lot in common. And it helps when you're really trying to work on something together, collaborate, which is truly a collaboration. It's been fun. I'm an investor and the company a co-owner, but I also really came on to the creative side of it, which is fun for me to think about marketing and how to talk about wine and tell the story of Archerus in a new and fun and interesting way. That doesn't take itself too seriously. Because wine in a can is not too

serious, you know? And I think like most things in life, I'm trying to entertain people and I don't know, just be, make people's lives a little bit better. I think that's the real honor of the job that I get to do is make people a little happier. And for me, wine in a can was a great extension of that personal ethos. Well, the ads you've done, people can look them up on YouTube. Yeah. Hilarious. Thank you.

Beyond tongue and cheek. We have more coming too. Do you? Yeah. There definitely seems to be a thing in the last several years where well-known people are not just like backing financially or just putting their name on something, but getting super involved in the details of how the company runs and being a part of the marketing. I think it's, I think it comes.

back to that word authenticity, right? I think that when you just, you can feel when you're just kind of selling something. And when it's, that feels really important to me. And I think everybody sniffs it out now. No, you're right. You know, you have to really care, I think. And that, that comes across when you're a little more involved. And when the, the marketing reflects me and who I am as a person, as well as the product. People are so savvy. I think you're right. When a celebrity says, I love this washing machine. You go, no, you don't. You do you?

You don't love the washing machine. I will say, normally I do love the washing machine that I'm selling. This I can tell you love. You also have this new podcast, which has a lot of people talking, my body, my podcast. Yes. It is, I was just saying to you, there's probably some joke in you and I sitting here, me, a middle-aged man talking about women's bodies. But I have a 14-year-old daughter and a 12-year-old son. And as I started to listen to it, I said, my God, these are the exact conversations we're either having or trying to have or dreading to have.

So what prompted you to open this discussion? You know, this exact thing prompted it. Truly, I'm a mom and my kids are looking at puberty soon. And I felt unprepared. I really felt also as a woman and as a feminist, somebody who was looking at Me Too and Times Up over the last few years and coming to my own under. understanding about everything that's happened to me as a person, as a woman, in my industry especially. You know, how do I grapple with all of this?

How do I talk to my kids openly about it? Because I want to raise really, I want to raise healthy kids who have great intimate relationships and are not fearful or filled with shame about anything. Yeah. And we have a very old school way of dealing with sex and sexuality right now. And it causes a lot of harm. And I just felt like if I can investigate this information for myself and learn more in the hopes of providing it for my own family, maybe other people want to listen in. And I really feel like I made it so that you could listen to it with your daughter or your son.

And so that parents could feel a little more prepared going forward. But also because I do truly believe, I truly believe that sex education, when done well, has the power to transform people's individual lives, but also society as a whole. Because everything that we talk about when we talk about body image, sex, sexuality, health, healthy relationships, this is something that intersects our daily lives and we hide it away in a corner like it's shame-filled and we're not allowed to talk about any of this stuff. When we think about sex, one study thinks, One study said that human beings think about sex once per hour, your entire adult life. So from puberty till you're dying, you're always thinking about some aspect of something.

And it's not like, I want to, you know, ooh, I want to have sex. It could be anything, you know, it could be like, ooh, you know, something on my body hurts or whatever. And it's also important to remember, like, we have these pleasure centers that we have access to on the daily, on the regular. and like, what an amazing feature of our human body. And why not use it a little bit more? And if we're going to use it, I want to make sure that the storytelling around it, that we own it. Because as a woman, I can tell you that a lot of the storytelling about my body and how it's used and how I have had my sexual experiences, I don't own it.

I don't own that storytelling. And that's upsetting as you get older and you realize how many experiences, especially young women, are having, where they're not really having any fun. And that's a problem. And it affects everything else that they're doing. Because if you don't have the confidence in the bedroom, how do you have the confidence in the boardroom? How do we continue the progress toward equality for women? if there's this system, a big system in place that tells us that our needs, our desires,

our wants, and our pleasure is secondary to men's. And we live in a system where that is for sure the case right now. I think young women are taking it back. There's so much more information out there. This podcast is part of that information. But at the end of the day, we have deep-seated and very deep-rooted shame around these. and stigma around these issues and talking about them openly. And the way we do it with young people, too,

even just how we separate boys and girls in health class. That's not really doing anybody any favors. You know, what you're doing is you're creating a system in which boys are told about erections and nocturnal emissions, a lot of fun things. And girls are told you're going to have your period. It's going to be horrible. You're going to bleed.

Don't get pregnant. be afraid, don't get an STV, don't get raped. It's like that. It's like the messaging is a mess. And then we put them back together and we go, what did you talk about? I don't know. I'm not supposed, apparently I'm not supposed to tell you what I talked about. So now we make things unspeakable rather than just inviting everybody to the same party

because these are just our bodies and this is what they are and this is how they work. And blood rushing to your penis is not the end of the world. It's not that big of a deal. And I have bleed every month. That is what I do as a woman. and it's not, like, embarrassing to say that. Even though I still want to go by a tampon, I'm like, can I hide these in the back of the, like, underneath the bread?

What? I'm a grown woman. Like you're doing a drug deal or something. Like, what? That's just insane. Don't you think part of the process is, and it takes a while? Sorry, there's a little bug in here. You have a bug, okay. It's attracted to me for some reason. Don't you think part of the process, though, is people like you kicking that door open?

Of course. Who, you know, whether my daughter loves you and pitch perfect and, oh, okay, she's saying it's okay to say these things out loud. Yeah. I think that's a part of the journey. I hope so. You know, I grew up, I had some Dr. Ruth, and then we had like Love Line, remember that? Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Drew. And I read Cosmo. And, you know, what I'm realizing now is kids are getting their information from algorithms. And they're online and they're looking up, I want a healthy rest of. and they're soon, pretty soon directed to, like, eating disorder websites, you know, and learning or being told that they're not good enough. You know, in every aspect of social media is amplifying the negativity that happens online, especially around bodies and body image and sex and sexuality.

And then, of course, there's porn. And when we, I just realized, like, I don't want to leave. the job of teaching my kids about sex and sexuality and who they are to porn. And let me be clear, that's the alternative when we don't take control of the messaging for them. Because it's just, it's too, it's free, it's online, it's everywhere, and it's just too available to them. You know, when I was young, it was really hard. You had to work to find an illicit image, you know, you had to really, you had to really,

I tell stories on the podcast, but I have so many more about, you know, babysitting and being like, let's go through the VHS collection. Maybe they've got something in the back, you know. Or, you know, the Uncle Jimmy's Hustler magazine under the waterbed. It's like, okay, we can, you know,

we'll have to figure out how to look at this without our parents' knowing. And now it's like, I mean, you could sit anywhere and do it. And so I just think it's important that parents understand, Not just that porn's everywhere, I think we get it, but that your kids are looking at it younger than you realize and that they have no literacy around it at all. So they don't know that it's not real. They don't understand what they're watching, that porn is filled with misogyny and

racist imagery and violence. And it's, you know, it's not, I'm not shaming anybody who's an adult who understands what porn is from watching porn. Get your kinks. I'm not a kink shamer at all. But I do think our young people are suffering because we're not addressing it head on what the real issue is in porn. And that's their first impression of sex. It often is their first impression. And sometimes they're only impression for long stretches of time. Yes. And you're right. I mean like so much that's online, it's the job of the parent or whoever to intervene and correct that early. That becomes, you know, cemented as the image.

You've talked about body image, which is, again, I keep going back to the father of a teenage girl with Instagram and everything else. It's a tough world out there when you're told relentlessly with every scroll, this is what you should look like, your teeth should be this white, your ab should look like this. What do you say to both parents and young people growing up in a world where they more than ever in some ways are shown what they're supposed to look like? I mean, I think, first of all, it's just good to remember who runs those images, right? That we live in a society that's run by a patriarchy.

I feel like saying the word patriarchy somehow is, it gets me in trouble as if it doesn't really exist or something, as if, like, if you go into every institution, I love asking this question, if you go into every institution in America. So go into the libraries, go into the university, the university, universities, the corporations, the hospitals, and look at the portraits on the walls. Who is in those portraits? It's going to be a lot of older white guys. And that just that right there is the proof that, like, the people who run things and get

the credit for things that have been doing it all along are mostly white guys. That's just how our world is in this moment in time. And of course, there's progress being made all over the place in every industry. and welcome so, but it's so ingrained. And so when you think about, I always bring it back to who wants us to feel bad about ourselves and our bodies? And what does that buy those people? And it buys them selling a lot of diet pills and selling social media and selling negativity.

And I just think it's important for people to sort of investigate a little bit more why they feel this way. Is it internal or is it external pressure? And to understand the immense and just pervasive external pressure. And to really take yourself out of that equation as often as possible. So I'm somebody I don't love social. I have a real love-hate relationship with social media for myself. and I have a hate relationship with it for my children.

So my kids are not on my Instagram. They're not on my, you know, they don't go down those rabbit holes. They have very limited screen time and any of that stuff. Very limited gaming, the whole thing. And they, I just feel like that is my number one job as a parent is to protect them from those things. You know, I'm not their friend. I'm literally meant to guide them through life and figure out what's a number one. their best interests and what isn't.

And I think the evidence becomes clear and clear every day that social media especially, but the internet generally is not in their best interest in any way. I mean, it's great for information. It's great for buying things. It's great for connecting with your grandma. So I love those aspects of it, and I think we should celebrate those aspects of it.

But there's a lot that is no good for kids. And I really feel as a parent for me that, part of my job is policing all of that. But it's really hard. It's easier said than done. Yeah. No, I'm sort of on the same page in terms of the way we handle it with social media. In some ways, though, the genie is so far out of the bottle. It's like you can't hide them from everything. And they just see it. I mean, whether it maybe it's not on Instagram, but maybe it's on a commercial on the show. Whatever it is of who I'm supposed to be, it's very in their face. Yeah. I think making sure that you're their trusted adults.

So on the podcast, we talk a lot about trusted adults in their lives. And a trusted adult does not necessarily have to be you. Like, I had a lot of, you know, funky aunts, you know, who my mom, I think, could farm out some of the information to because it's a little less awkward when you get to talk to your aunt about it versus your mom or whatever. But having trusted adults in your kids' lives is really important. So if it is you great, but if it's not you,

make sure there's somebody in their life that they can talk to about these things. And that starts really young. So one of the other things I talk about on the podcast a lot is people ask, well, when do I tell them about sex? And when do I talk to my kids about these things? As soon as they're interested and as early as possible. Every conversation is easier, the earlier it's done. They don't conflate sex, sexuality, their bodies with shame or power dynamics. You know, everything that happens as you get older when you realize what all of this is really about.

They don't, they have none of that in their system yet. And so just giving them facts and being straight with them creates a bond and a sense of trust. If you lie to them about where babies come from, you're like, there's a stork that comes and delivers a da-da-da. And then they go, mom, there's this, you know, they're going to figure it out. And then they're going to wonder what else you lied to them about. And I just am uninterested in not having a trusting open dialogue with my kids from Jump. I just think it creates a series of problems that are ongoing where they just don't trust me anymore.

And they're not going to come to me about these things. And I desperately want that connection with my kids. And I think most parents do. And we don't have a lot of great models for it. You know, the generation above us, they didn't have any models for this at all. And they're trying, you know, they had the sexual revolution and the feminist revolution and the civil rights revolutions, like to, start the process. And I feel like we now, we're just so, we have so much information, but now our job almost is like sifting through and understanding like what is age appropriate

and what our kids are ready for. But also knowing that they're ready for a lot more than we realize, a lot earlier than we realize. It's a testament to your relationship with your mom that she's on the podcast, that you have these open conversations. What did she think when you told her what this podcast was? She was not that surprised. She was not that surprised. She was not that surprised. She's been my trusted adult for a very long time. You know, I wouldn't say everything was like an open discussion with my mom, but I'm very grateful and lucky I had a loving boyfriend in high school. I have a great relationship. Obviously, I'm almost 30 years into my relationship with my husband, who I've been married to for 18 years. You met on the first day of college. I met him on my first day. I was 18

years old when I met him and we're still together. So, but that requires like a lot of curiosity to keep it interesting for 30 years, you know, and open discussions about everything as well. And I think my mom, talking to my mom on the podcast really helped for me hone in on that theme of a trusted adult and the idea that these are not conversations that happen once or twice, but that it's an ongoing conversation for your entire life, hopefully. And then we are always learning new things about what we like and dislike, what our turn-ons and turns off are, who we're interested in, how to have healthy relationships, what does this look, like, you know, how to work through your own stuff. One of my other favorite guests on the show, Pastor Nadia Bowles-Weber, she said that parents, the best tool parents have is a shovel because you've got to get all your own shit out of the way and don't give it to your kids because it belongs. to you, try not to pass it on.

And that's really hard, I think, for a lot of people, you know, to not be triggered by whatever shame they carry around, whatever bad experiences they've had when it comes to sex. And there's many. Sure. Right. There's many. But to make sure that you get out of the way and let your young person have their own, you know,

their own experience. And this also comes down to gender and gender identity and all. these things that are very much in the zeitgeist right now. And, you know, for me, I find that in my own life, the more open and fair and just things are, the more people thrive. And the more closed down and shame-filled or fear-based people act, the more they are shut down and fear-based, and they don't thrive. And that's just how I'm seeing, it's my actual viewpoint on the world, but it's all. Also, what I see in practice in my business as an entertainer and as a person who runs a production company and creates stories for people, it's always, there's always more winning when you include more.

And being more inclusive is not that hard. You know, I think the State Department today came out with passports that no longer require just male or female. And I find that fascinating and healthy. You know, we talk on the podcast with an incredible intersex justice warrior named Pigeum Gones, who was born intersex and went through our medical system that was like, no, no, no, you need to fit in a box. And this person had to deal with incredible surgeries as a baby and like all of this stuff before they had any idea who they were.

And that, like, as a parent thinking about a child going through that, for me, just like, oh, this hurts my soul. And the idea that we could acknowledge that you don't have to have two boxes, by the way, I'm cisgendered, female, I am a female, I can check that box. It harms me not at all if there's a third box. What harm does a dude add another box? and be more inclusive. And I just think everybody that's fighting against that is like holding on to something

that doesn't really, I don't know why it matters so much to you, except that keeps in place a system that really ostracizes anybody who doesn't fit into those two boxes. And that is a sense of power that people really like having. And it's just not how I need to run my life. Well, every one of these issues that you're talking about is a full hour on this podcast. So we can talk for hours and hours. It's so interesting. And I applaud you for doing it honestly because it is, I watch, I'm starting to have it with my son.

I watch my wife and daughter have that open, trusted conversation where we can be sitting at the dinner table and something like you're talking about comes up and no one blushes. And my daughter says, we're having this conversation. Yes, dad, you're here. Yes, brother, you're here. And that's a great thing. So hopefully you open that door to a lot of people. So good for you for doing it. Thank you.

Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Elizabeth Banks right after the break. Welcome back to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Now more of my conversation with Elizabeth Banks. You mentioned your mom. Yeah. I'm just curious about going back to your upbringing in Pittsfield Mass. At what point your mother or your family realized that you might be a performer, that you might be an actor.

Very late. Late. Really? Yeah, no, I was not meant. My mother bought me a book. She bought me Diane Sawyer's autobiography or biography when I was in college because I thought I might be a broadcast journalist, like really guys. I thought I would, you know, that seemed like the right path for me. I loved Diane Sawyer.

And it wasn't until truly like my senior year of university. I've been doing plays. my, you know, since middle school. Right. My very first musical was Jesus Christ Superstar. I had broken my leg. I was an athlete. I broke my leg.

I couldn't play sports. I was in a walking cast. And I always sang in the choir. And the singing teacher said, we're going to do Jesus Christ Superstar. You can play Ponchus pilot. Not Mary Magdalene, by the way. You can play Pontch's pilot

because you can wear long robes over your walking cast. Oh, wow. And sing the song. And I can still, remember, I can still sing the song. And that was my first foray into real performing was in middle school because I had to. I was a Lashke kid. I needed something to do after school. My parents, you know, were like, you got to be busy, stay busy.

And I suddenly didn't have sports. I didn't have practice. So I went to rehearsal instead, and that became my sort of my new family. And I carried that through college. But I never thought, I didn't understand this as a profession. I didn't know anybody who was an artist professionally. I knew, you know, my cousin dabbled in it a little bit, but, you know, they were mostly all waiters. You know what I mean? I had been a waitress at that point for 10 years going on 10 years.

And so I thought, how do you make this into a life? And I got into drama school. And I went to drama school, which I could not afford. And I took on more student loans. And I just thought, oh, man. And then I kind of came out. And I said, I'm going to give myself a little bit of time. time, but this, it never felt real to me until it suddenly was. Right. And so I just kept putting the

work in and doors kept opening. But also, it was dodgy at first, as I talk about on the podcast, too, you know, it's a little dodgy. So, so then what was that moment where you said, oh, I can do this for a living. This can be a life. I'm out here. I am waiting on tables. I've had some brutal auditions. I've had producers say some awful things to me. Yeah. When did you decide, yeah, this is something I can do or I want to do? You know, when I was leaving drama school, I see the bug now. When I was leaving drama school, I came to New York. I had a showcase, as they say, in the business, where you sort of put on a little show for agents and managers and different people.

And a casting director was there from a soap opera here. And they invited me the next day to audition for this soap. I've never done a professional audition. I didn't really know what that was. And I got the job. And they offered me a two-year contract on soap opera. And I called my mom from a payphone. I'm dating myself.

I call my mom from a pay phone. And I said, I don't think I'm going to do it. And it would have paid all my student loans. So this was very serious. It was like more money than I. I'd ever dreamed of having, and it wasn't even that much money, but, you know, it was like, holy God. This solves all my financial woes, you know?

And my mom agreed. I was crying on the phone. I was like, I just don't think I want to do it. I don't know what else is out there. And that was the advice. It was like, well, if you can get this today, what can you get tomorrow? Wow. And that's how I've approached this whole life.

What have I gotten today? Okay, great. Well, what else can I get? it tomorrow. And don't settle for what you got today. Figure out what else you can get. And it's led me down this incredible path where I feel like I've been able to keep a little bit of my dignity intact, although not all of it. You shed a lot as an actress in Hollywood. It falls off and you just pick it back up and try and stick it back on. So I've maintained most of my dignity. But also, I've realized that, like, it all adds up to something. You know, you know, you're just to, you

to go to auditions and be like, man, if I don't get this audition, I can't pay my rent. And I put so much pressure on that two minutes in a room with people who you don't know and don't know, who don't care about you paying your rent, and they're just trying to solve their problem, which is they need somebody to come in and be great so they can cast them in this role. And at a certain point, I allowed myself to let go with that pressure and just be like, you know what, I'm going to go in there, I'm going to do the best I can. I'm going to walk away.

And if they call me, great. And if I never hear from them again, I'm going to keep on keeping on because it's already in the past. And it really freed me to just keep going forward and not be precious about what I can't change because it already freaking happened. Where did the confidence come from to say no to this big gig that was going to pay all your bills and it was on a show people knew? And you were like, no. Unconditional love, I guess, you know? Yeah. Truly, I think that is where it comes from.

It comes from going to college. Neither of my parents, my mom has now gotten her college degree. But when I was going to university, neither of my parents had graduated from college. They didn't have college degrees. So going to school as a first-gen was already like their wildest dreams come true. And I knew that for my parents, and I knew that my parents would do everything to make my life better and give me my dreams. And they do it for my sisters and my brother as well. And they're super just loving and supportive.

So I think just knowing that like my fallback is like some loving family that will help me. It's like really nice to have and not everybody has that. Yep. So it's important to recognize that that is privilege that I grew up with that I now give to my kids as well and to the rest of my family. But that chance that I had, I was not going to waste because I knew it was special and that it meant something to more than just me. I also feel like you became sort of undeniable. were relentless of like wet hot American summer was good scrubs was great 30 rock you were great modern family and people finally were like okay she's great did that feel like a grind through that

it does there is a there are moments when you when you realize that um people trust you as an entertainer I think that's really important knowing like okay if I'm on you can relax like I'm gonna entertain you I'll make you loud I'll sell the joke to you you know are you gonna watch me impress your luck like I love press your luck like I'm gonna bring you along for a ride and I think as an entertainer that's really that's an important thing for me is making sure the audience trust me and connects to me and feels like I'm not going to disappoint you that's I take that responsibility very seriously and there there have been moments where I was like you know it's going to be fine I also I didn't need a lot my bar was low right I really was like I learned I got like my class

three driver license. I drove like a van in college, and so I got like the special license. And I literally, I'm not kidding, Willie. I used to tell myself, well, I can always drive a bus. Truly, I'll be fine. I can drive a bus. Just renew that license. Just renew the license. That's the test again. You know, I really have come to life with the, what's the worst case scenario? Yeah. And it takes a lot of hustle to build that confidence. But I've never shied away from doing the dirty work and whatever it takes. And that also, when you're doing those jobs and you go, well, this is as bad as it can get, you know, cleaning a bed and breakfast room after like a wedding party comes through. And everything that you pull out of that garbage can or have to fish out of the toilet, don't put condoms in toilets.

It's not where they go. It's the next episode of the podcast. No condoms and toilets. You know who clean that up? Me. I had to clean that up. And once you're there and you're pulling a condom out of a toilet, you're like, I guess I can do anything. Everything will be better than this.

Everything. It does give you some perspective, doesn't it? It really does. It gives you a lot of perspective. And then at some point you make this conscious decision of maybe I'm not getting the big roles that I think I should be getting. I like it. You're like, you're not an A-list star. Well, no, no.

I'm a worker. No, I'm going back now and you take control of your destiny. Yes, I do. You start your own production company with your now husband. Yes. And you say, okay, we're just going to make the stuff. I got really great advice from some incredible women in the business who are a little ahead of me, you know, maybe a little generation ahead of me, and who were really dissatisfied.

and bored. They were really bored. And I could already feel a sense of boredom creeping in. And I knew that if I didn't do something, I would, it would fester. I would feel underused. I would feel like I wasn't bringing my full self to my work. And I wasn't accomplishing everything that I wanted to do. And so being able to be a little more in control of storytelling and directing

and producing, creating interesting stories that center women's lives and women's autonomy. That became just a goal and a destiny for me that felt totally right. And again, authentic to who I am as a person, as a woman, as a feminist, as an activist.

And here we are. Yeah, I just started doing it. And people always, I get a lot of people ask me, but how, you know, there are actually, there are a bunch of actresses who are doing it right now. Olivia Wilde comes to mind. Natalie Morales is coming up. But Jody Foster did it before me.

Penny Marshall did it before me. Those were my role models. But it's rare. It's a rare thing to do. So it takes a lot of chutzpah. And I just thought, well, if I don't try, I'll regret not trying. And I know I'll be bored. Otherwise, you have to wait for the phone to ring.

Right. And I don't want someone else to be in control of my time and what I do with it. I feel, for me, the definition of success is control over how I spend my time. Because now I have kids, and I want to make sure when I'm away from them, that I'm doing things that really matter to me. I have to underline the name of the company, too. Brownstone, because it tells the story of the way you grew up, right? It does, yeah.

So I grew up on Brown Street in Pissville, Massachusetts, and my best friend, Soraya, and I used to joke about our lives someday. And we used to think about having a five-digit address because that was the fancy side of town. It was like 10-300 Brownstone Drive. You know, nobody lived on Brown Street. Like, that's a bummer. By the way, I love the hometown roots. But it was aspirational for me, the idea of Brownstone Drive someday. And living in a Brownstone in New York City was very aspirational for me.

And I lived in one with my husband before we started the company. And so Brownstone for me, it was always a meaningful idea in my life growing up in my little town in Massachusetts. And then with one of your first projects, you come out pretty hot with pitch perfect. Yeah. Yeah, we actually produced a movie before that called Surrogates starring Bruce Willis. But yes, Brownstones, we are mainly known for the Pitch Perfect franchise. And, you know, just figuring out how to tell a story about a group of misfits and that it was those women. I loved those women.

I loved, you know, Kay Cannon, who wrote the script, did an incredible job creating just a group of women that I think everybody could see themselves in. And at the end of the day, like a really basic, you know, boys versus girls storyline that stands the test of time. And people love singing and dancing. Yeah. Just a fun universe to be into competitive singing and dancing. And I think bringing a lot of humor to that, bringing an irreverent sense of comedy to it, which is something that has been a through line of my career, my whole career in comedy. And it's really fun to put out a poster in the world that features all those women. You don't see a lot of those posters.

And I think it feels very natural, but go through all the Hollywood posters. It's not. It really, it's very quietly revolutionary, in my opinion. Stick around for more of my conversation with Elizabeth Banks right after a quick. break. Welcome back to the Sunday Sit Down podcast now, the rest of my conversation with Elizabeth Banks. Talk about controlling your own destiny. Then you step into directing. What do you love about directing? I assume you do love it. Or maybe you're like, no, never again. I just did it again. I know. I know you did. I want to ask you about that too. But I mean, it's especially a movie of the scope of a pitch perfect movie. That's a big directing

What do you love about that? I love the collaboration with the crew and the cast, and I love, I like being in charge. I'm not afraid of being in charge. And I like, you know, I like leading that group and I love offering opportunity to people. I mean, I really feel a great responsibility. You know, whenever you take something on, it's always on behalf of, you know, this group of people. And I tell everybody at the end of any, you know, the part of the process, like, I'm going to keep working hard to, like, make this something that everyone's proud of. And that is my goal, just to make something that everybody's proud of.

And to entertain people. You know, it's, it's, I've been thinking not a lot, but a little bit as I'm aging about what my legacy is in the world. You know, not everybody gets the opportunity to leave a real legacy. And what I didn't want was for everyone to look at what had American Summer and 30 Rock and whatever and just be like, yeah, she was cute, she was cute, she was good on those, she was, she was a good actress or whatever, you know, cute, blonde, small boobs, nice actress. Like, I was like, is that my legacy? Is that it? You know, how, how do I take a little more control over what is going on? And also, I'm just curious. I really love trying new things. And I love, um, When people put me in a box, immediately blowing the box open. You know, so I made this, you know, funny musical, and I was like, what else can I do? You know, and when I say box and that people put me in, when I say that people put me in a box, I mean that literally.

I have had conversations with Hollywood producers who have told me, I don't think you can direct an action movie, because I don't think male actors will follow you. Come on. Yeah. and I've now, you know, directed, you know, Jean-Luc Picard, and I've directed Han Solo, because I just directed Alden Aaron Reich. I've directed Ray Leota, Henry Hill. No problems, you know, we've done it.

But man, that's a motivator for me. Being told, no, you can't do it. Motivates the hell out of me. Because if they're saying it to me, they're saying it about women. It's not just about me. And that, again, becomes a responsibility. Well, all right, we got to keep proving that that's not true. Because we all deserve these opportunities if we want them.

And it is changing. I've seen a big change in things, even in the time that I've been directing. But the numbers, you know, there was anecdotes all along. And now we have these incredible, like, USC inclusion studies that really put numbers to everything. And we have such amazing data nowadays. So for so long, I think the data wasn't there to support these feelings that people had. And back then, that's what it was. It was an anecdote or a one-time thing or a feeling.

Oh, these, you know, she just, I mean, yeah, like women don't really direct, you know, major motion pictures. I mean, but that few do. That's not totally true because, look, this one, this one. And when you actually break it out and look at the numbers and you go, oh, it's like 4%. Oh, it's like 8%. Oh, it's like, it's never been higher than 13, I think, percent of in any given year. And that's, I mean, that's not great. Yeah.

I don't know. It doesn't feel like we're representing the best of, like, all of humanity's interests. Right. If as an industry, we're not telling stories from everyone's perspective. So. You can do it, but that women can do it. And you've done that again and again, including with the one you alluded to, cocaine bear. Yes, cocaine bear.

I remember a couple of years ago reading a story, I don't remember where it was, about a bear that had consumed, I think, $15 million worth of cocaine in the woods. Yes. And I remember thinking this should be a movie. And it appears you had the same thought. Well, to be clear, a script writer named Jimmy Warden had the same thought and wrote a script, and it's a delight. And it's really unique, and I think it's sort of a new twist on horror. So it's a horror movie.

Again, I was like, yeah, I want to do a new job. And for whatever reason, I'm somehow able to convince people to let me do it. Really fun. Yes, it's about a bear who gets high in cocaine and all the people who end up in the forest with this bear who is high in cocaine. Some people know it's high on cocaine and some people don't. And what the heck happens? And it's not pretty for a lot of the human beings involved.

The title alone, how could you not watch that movie? Because what does that mean? That's my hope. Tell me the story. That's my hope. But it's the pitch is in the title. Exactly. There's a bear who ingested a lot of cocaine.

And that it's based on a true story, which it is. And we use a lot of the true elements as our sort of launching point. And, you know, look, I can intellectualize it. You know, is it about man's sense of control over nature and how we never have any and we think we do what we don't? Sure, it's also about that. You know, is it also about how we dump a lot of stuff into nature and then we expect nature not to react?

Sure. It's a little bit about that. But it's also just a very fun, entertaining ride. Yeah. So it's a little mix of the true story as a launching point for the story you tell. Yes. Oh, my gosh. I cannot wait to see that.

Yeah. Before I let you go, you do so much. We're talking about podcasts and wine and movies and TV. What else is out there? Because you are the kind of person, it seems to me, who's got a bunch of plate spinning and a lot going on. There might be even something else that we haven't thought of that you'd be into. Oh, gosh.

Is there something else? Now I'm like, you're going to edit around this. I mean, there's a lot in the pipeline. You know, we're making a, we're hopefully. But again, I don't, I don't jinx things. Yeah, I'm always like, I never like put things out. Because, you know, I told my mom I was in a movie once and then she went to the movie and I was only, I went like this. And that was my entire part in the movie.

And she like brought her friends to the movie. And I really was not in the movie. And so now I really try not to talk about things and get ahead of anything until it's real. Fair enough. I think it's safe to say, tell your mom, I am going to be in the movie. I am going to be in movies. Also, I directed it. So I'm definitely going to be in the movie.

Yeah. Thank you so much. Congratulations on all your success. The wine is delicious. The podcast is great. Thank you. It's all happening. Nice to see you. Nice to see you, too. My big thanks again to Elizabeth for a great conversation. Be sure to check out her podcast, My Body, My Podcast, on Audible, and get yourself a can of her Archer-Ruse wine in a can wherever you get your wine.

My thanks to all of you, as always, for listening. Go to hear more of these conversations with my guests every week. Be sure to click follow so you never miss an episode. And don't forget to tune in to Sunday today every week. on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit Down podcast.