Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - GRAMMY NOMINEE: Kelsea Ballerini

Episode Date: January 31, 2025

Willie Geist sits down with one of the biggest young stars in music, Kelsea Ballerini. They talk about her latest album, "Patterns", and her gig as a coach on "The Voice." Ballerini also reflects on her choice to move to Nashville as a teenager to pursue country music. (Original broadcast date October 27, 2024)  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks, as always, for clicking and listening along. Got a really good one for you this week with a country star who has crossed over to big mainstream success. Her name is Kelsey Ballerini. She's out now with her fifth album. This one is called Patterns. It comes on the heels of her previous Grammy-nominated album, rolling up the welcome mat, which very personally detailed her divorce a couple of years. years ago. She has come up from Knoxville, Tennessee, where she fell in love with music at a very young age, started writing songs when she was 12 years old, moved with her mother to Nashville when she was 15 years old, and began what she describes as kind of a slow burn career, a rise up

through the music industry. She feels like, as she puts it, she's in this puberty phase, which is she's not really new anymore. She's been in, first album came out in 2015. She's ready to make that leap and catch the wave and she feels like she has. And in many ways, she got the Grammy nomination for her previous album this year that happened. And now she has sold out Madison Square Garden. She's played an arena show at her hometown in Knoxville, but this feels like something different and special. Feels like she's on the brink of superstardom. She talks about how Taylor Swift became a mentor, kind of took her under her wing very early on, offering her support and guidance and how to navigate all of this. And so she has had success over her five albums. She has won awards in the country

community. She was nominated for this Grammy, but now on to bigger and better things, she hope. So, I hope you enjoy getting to know Kelsey Ballerini as much as I did. So sit back, relax, and enjoy Kelsey right now on the Sunday Sit Down podcast. It's so good to see you, Kelsey. It's so good to see you. I'm so excited for you because you are on the brink of something huge. You were nice enough to let me hear the entire album. It is amazing. Thank you. What does it feel like, because you've done this a few times now,

to be on this side of it, to have it about to be out into the world? Is it nerve-wracking? Is it thrilling? What does it feel like? All of the above. And also thank you for saying that. Your lips to God's ears. It's that anticipatory time where it's been turned in for a couple months now,

so I can't touch it anymore. It's not out yet. it's not everyone else's. So it's just this in-between phase where I'm like, okay, did I do it right? I think I did, but then I'm going to relisten to it 48 more times to make sure I did. But, you know,

I think I made this record differently than I have before. It's my fifth studio album, and it's after an EP that really changed my life. And so I was hyper-protective going into it, just making sure that I did justice by where I'm at in my career, and more so

where I'm at in my life and what that, what does that sound like? What does that feel like? How do I make that? And that was a process that I really had to give myself some grace to get started. It's called patterns. It is. What does that mean exactly to you? Why did you use that title? Well, I, um, I'm an album girl. You know, I know that times are always changing and evolving, which is amazing. But for me, I think the way that you get to know an artist is by listening to track one, to track 15, 14 and a half in this case. You know, I think if you listen to to it chronologically, you're going to get a story and you're going to get to know me more as a songwriter and a woman. And that's what I crave from artists. And so that's what I always want to

deliver. And I think the album title really sets that tone of what is the story. And for me, my records have been a snapshot of that year and a half, two year period that I'm writing it. And so I think for me, you know, I kind of like came up for air after rolling up the welcome mat. And I was like, okay, okay. Survived. That's awesome. I'm 30 at that point. I'm like, here's my life. What do I like? What do I not like? What have I contributed to both? What's in my control? What should I edit? What should I celebrate more? And then let me look at like my closest, most interpersonal relationships. And let me challenge those. And it was the process of all that. And I think you hear all of kind of those intricacies throughout the record. It's it is a story start to finish you're right that's not as common as it used to be for sure So I'm just curious as such a great songwriter which you are and I think you consider yourself a songwriter first Always yeah what's the first day of the process like in other words time for an album Where do you begin just fetal position? I'm kidding

I mean I really I think for me I I've always written about my life right but I think in my brain because I want it to be for everyone, anyone and everyone, truly, I'm like, everyone's welcome here. Find something in this record that feels right to you when you project it onto your life and it's yours, you know? But I think my way of doing that was rounding the edges of it. So like leaving out some of the details, leaving out some of my personality. To me, that made it more palatable for people. And then I put out rolling up the welcome mat, my last EP, and there was nothing about it that I made to be a commercial record at all. It was like so

personal. I didn't tell you when I was doing it. I had just put out a record. And it was really selfish. I mean, the whole thing for me, it was, I was going to write about my life at that point regardless. And I just felt like that perspective on a woman in country music in the South, whatever, talking about divorce, I hadn't heard exactly yet. And I just wanted to put it out just in case anyone found it needed it. And then it changed my life. And so it really challenged going into this, this chapter of making music, like, okay, how do I not round the edges anymore? How do I stay this honest and this, like, this tangible with the storytelling in a very different phase of my life? And it, it took me a minute. And I think the, the breakthrough for me was, I need to surround myself with people that I feel safe with to just throw paint at a wall. Like, here's all my feelings, here's what I'm going through, like in my womanhood, in my relationship, whatever. Help me sort through this.

What could this sound like? And so I called four of my girlfriends, and we started the process. And then as soon as we wrote, the first song we wrote was Sorry Mom, one of my favorites on the record. And I was just like, I think I'm going to lock the door. I don't think I want anyone else to touch this. I think it's just us. That group is incredible.

I mean, there are songwriters who are really well known in Nashville who may not be known to the public, but then there's Karen from a little big town. iconic. Just a great group. So how did you come to that place where I need a crew to sort of sift through all this material and let's go lock ourselves away on some girls' weekends, as you said, and come out the door with an amazing album? I didn't know that I wanted that particular crew at first. I think it was really just kind of getting into those first few songs where I realized that

I realized that these women, I mean, Hillary Lindsay, she wrote, Jesus, take the wheel. I mean, like, million reasons. I mean, she's just, she's one of the reasons that I'm a songwriter, you know? I remember being at Lipscomb, we were talking about Nashville, and I would literally get done with class, and I would go to my dorm room with my roommate Jensen, who's one of my dearest friends, and I would get on YouTube,

and I would look up every single writer's round of hers and just hear all of her uncut songs and just study them. I just think she's the best. And then Karen Fairchild, a little big town, I grew up singing them in Knoxville. I mean, she's become, you know, I just, I'm an artist that I admire to appear to a friend, to a sister, to a collaborator. That's like, what a journey. Like, I feel so grateful to have all of those different versions of her.

And then Jesse Joe Dylan, I mean, her dad is songwragging royalty, but now she's really having her moment. And she's just brilliant and articulate and humble and so down to go there. No matter where there is, she does not shy away from the truth. And then Elisa Vanderheim, she has just become my musical right arm. I just am so musically codependent with her and she knows it to the point where she's like, Kelsey, I need a break. I have to go work on other things. And I'm like, but what about me? And so I just have these women that I just deeply respect and I admire and the fact that they made time for me.

It meant a lot. And so I think once we found something special together, I was like, can we just protect this with our lives? How is it different, though? because this is so interesting from previous experiences you've had that a lot of people have, which is a mix of men and women or a whole bunch of men writing for a woman. Yeah. What's different and unique about this experience and how did it affect the product and patterns? That's a great question.

I think I'm really interested in womanhood and growing up. I think that's been a big theme in just in my life and like my personal kind of findings and growing up the last few years. And certainly a pattern. of this album. Very nice. You really do hear womanhood throughout the whole thing

and not like, hey, let's have a girl's night, let's go. That's not really there, but there is this underlying tone of maternal feelings and this warmth and this safety and this camaraderie. And I think for me,

finding that and really solidifying that in my personal life, I did want it to reflect in the record and music. You mentioned, Sorry, Mom, which is a great song. And anyone with a teenager or a young woman or man in their house can probably relate to this as a parent. What did you want to say to your mom in that song?

I think one of the most beautiful things that's happened the last few years is the relationship with my mom going from mother to daughter to woman to woman. And, you know, my mom, she'll kill me for saying this, but it's very true. Like, she was a helicopter mom growing up, you know? My parents split when I was 12, 13. I have a beautiful relationship with both my parents. But I think my mom was just, she was really careful with me. And then, you know, I grew up. And I went to a Church of Christ college for two years.

And then I went straight onto a tour bus. And I think that juxtaposition was really hard for both of us because I was like, oh my gosh, hi, real world. This is crazy. And she was like, Kelsey, just sing and put on your jammies and go to bed, you know? And I'm like, but wine's cool. Anyway, so I think we just had like growing pains, you know? And now we're finally at this phase where I'm 31 now.

And we're in this beautiful phase of life where I'm able to be like, hey, listen, I know that you probably wanted to shield me from a couple of the choices that I've made in my life. But at the end of the day, I'm safe and I'm happy and you love me and I love you. And that's all we can ask for. How lucky are we? It's an amazing gift to give your mom that song. What was her reaction the first time she heard it? I didn't play it for actually. I was in St. Louis on that first riding retreat.

And she was actually, she, I'm going to tell on my mom now, she was at Bar Taco with my boyfriend and Kenny Chesney. And they were throwing back margaritas. And so I gave that task, I passed that task off to play that song for her. Yeah, I didn't have to do it. So the guys played it for her? Yeah. I think Kenny eliminated himself from that situation. but yeah, Chase played it for my mom

and it was a very beautiful moment for them to have together. Yeah, how did it hit her? She got done listening to it and she said she has nothing to be sorry for which I think is very sweet. Very sweet. It is a beautiful song. It really is. You mentioned your previous album

which, as you said, changed your life. Yeah. And it was so raw. Yeah. It was in a moment. It was very difficult for you coming out of a divorce. When those songs go public and they become well, known and everyone hears every detail of what you're going through. I don't regret's not the right

word, but do you ever go, wow, I sure put it all out there, or is that what you were aiming for? My feeling towards it now is so different than it was a year ago. I think at first when I put it out, again, I literally, I gave it to my management, my label. I said, hey, I made this. I'd like to just put it out on streaming. I'll do one interview. That's kind of it. let's just let it ride. I just put out this other record called Subject to Change. I love it.

Let's tour this, whatever. I did one interview on a podcast, Call her Daddy. And just the culmination, I think, of the contents of the record, the songwriting, and then that interview just kind of, it just made like a little moment.

And it terrified me so badly. Because then I was like, did I overshare? Because now there's a lot more ears on it than on the record that I just put out. That was not what I intended. And I had to get comfortable with the idea that, okay, this is super personal for me,

and I'm still actively, you know, growing out of this chapter of my life. But what if the eyeballs aren't on it aren't necessarily dissecting into my life? What if the eyeballs on it are because it's connecting because they're feeling it too, whether it's a divorce or a breakup or a life change, there's a connective tissue there that I have not felt before in my entire career. And that's when I got more comfortable with leaning into it. that's sort of the gift of what you do, isn't it, thinking maybe at first I'm spilling my guts, but then all these other people come in and say, no, those are mine too.

Yeah. And finding some sort of bond with people you don't know. It's also where you have to kind of detach your ego from it. Yeah. You know, because like what a very central thought to be like, oh, my God, people are like dissecting my life. Or it's like, okay, what if they're not? Like, what if you actually dissected your own life and then put it out there? and now people are just, again, projecting it onto their life and feeling it however they're supposed to.

I will say, that whole record and body of music, it was such a gift. I think for me, I was watching all these artists catch the wave, and I felt like I was on the board for a long time. And I was wondering if I would ever catch a wave like that, like one that would really help me shift out of kind of the puberty phase, as I call it. I'm not a new artist anymore, but, like, I haven't caught the wave yet. Like, I feel like I've caught little waves, but I'm not there. And I feel like that record was the first wave that I really, really caught. And then it was interesting because it was so personal. And it was, like, my life was on the shore at that point, you know?

And I was like, oh, wait, but this is actually where I'm at, but, like, this is bringing me to my first arena. So, like, I'm going to stay on this wave, right? And it was a big juxtaposition in my head for a while. Yeah, isn't that ironic? Yes, it is. You weren't doing it for cynical, you know, professional reasons. You were telling the story of what was happening in your life, and that became the thing that took you to another place.

Yeah. That's kind of an amazing thing. It is. Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Kelsey Ballerini right after the break. Welcome back now more of my conversation with Kelsey Ballerini. You were saying your first arena show, which was in your hometown. of Knoxville.

There's another one coming here in New York City. At Madison Square Garden. You're playing the Garden. It's the garden. And it's already sold out. What does that feel like? Ironically, and I don't know how this has happened, Willie, but it's, it's, I'm so grateful. I feel like I have played every venue as an opener. Like the, the amphitheaters, the arenas as an opener, except for MSG.

I've never played it. I don't know how. It's just somehow been the only one that is untouched for me. me still. And I've seen shows there. I've been in the room, felt the energy, but I've never played it. So I, I'm giddy. I'm nervous. I haven't played a show, you know, in a minute. So to, to be back in that size of a room with a whole new record, that'll be out for four days before the show happens with, like, big girl production. It's like a, it's a, it's a big girl show. Yeah. But I haven't skipped any steps. And I think, I got really impatient for a while because I was like, okay, I played

Gramercy, and then I played Irving, and then I played the Best Buy Theater, which I think it's a different name now. Yes. In Times Square. And then I played radio singing music hall. And then I opened at Barclays at Jones Beach. I mean, I've done every soon. And so it just feels like, oh, here we are.

That's exactly what you're talking about. You've earned this. You've been riding those waves for a long time. And it feels like you're ready now. I am. This is the moment. What does Madison Square Garden mean to an artist? I know what it means for a fan.

It's just a cool building and the ceiling's great. And every artist who plays there says the acoustics are amazing and all that. But just for you, as someone who grew up in East Tennessee. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're playing the garden. What does that mean to you? It's the most famous arena in the world, right? I think for me, I remember when I first signed my record deal,

Gordon Kerr, who was the label head. He sent me down. He said, what's your goal? what do you want? And I was 20 and I said, I want to come up on a hydraulic lift in the middle of a big arena. And it sounds so silly now saying that out loud. But for me, I, there's not a lot of women in country music that have graduated to arenas. And so I knew that if I was ever lucky enough, and lucky is truly the word, lucky enough to make that jump, I had to do it at the right time. and I couldn't fail because I don't want, I only want to add to that, that trajectory for women

and country music. I don't want to take away from it. I don't want to fail for me, for us. And that's why we've been so careful and reserved sometimes and all that stuff. And so I think for me now being in a place where like, is it still scary? Uh-huh. Yep, me backstage will not be cute. I will be like, fine in a bucket.

But I think for me, I finally, I bet on myself now. I bet on myself and I believe that if there's ever a time for me to make that jump, it's now. And I believe in the music. I believe that this record is the record to do that jump to get to a room like MSG. You've earned it. You're ready. Yeah. You're ready.

You say you're one of the few women in country to be able to sell out an arena, which is true. But just hearing you say country, of course, that's. the genre you're in or your place. But listening to patterns, yes, it's country, but it feels like a little bit more than that. It feels like there's a bunch of crossover music in there and the way you write a song and tell a story and all that. Is that a style that you aim for?

I mean, obviously you came up with both country and pop influence. You weren't pure country. So is that sort of, is it fair to say that you're some combination of the two? I mean, I always say that I grew up on a farm in East Tennessee. and my first concert was Britney Spears. And I've just never shied away from it. You know, I think just like on top 40 radio, you have Benson Boone, and then you have Duelipa,

and then you have Cardi B, and then you have Taylor Swift. You have so many different versions of what popular music is, right? I can't country be the same. You know, I think there's a ton of different versions of what country means to people. And listen, I love traditional, yummy country music. But if I made a record like that, I would be dishonoring a lot of the other influences that I have and what inspires me. So I just have to focus on what feels right to me and my art, which is definitely influenced by everything.

It always will be. It always has been. And I think I'm finally comfortable enough to know that that's not for everyone. It used to really offend me when people are like, that's not country. I'm like, but wait a second, I'm writing about my life. This is my truth. That's what country music is, right? And I've learned that, like, yes, it is to me.

And I believe that. And so it doesn't really matter where everyone else thinks it should fit. It matters what I think, like where I believe it fits. And to me, it will always be country, but it will always be country adjacent as well. Well, that brings me back to your childhood a little bit because it tells us a lot about where you are today when you're a kid growing up in Knoxville. And you've got, you know, Christina Aguilera and Britney Spears and all. your favorites. Yeah. To go with all the country stars. That's right. You love and you love Shania and you love Taylor and everybody else. So when did music come into your life? I know you

wrote your first song when you're 12 for your mom. But when did it become something that was clearly going to be the guiding force in your life. I loved music growing up. Like I did church choir and then I led worship sometimes and I did Glee Club at my high school. I'll tell you story. So I tried out for everything. And we did Peter Pan my, my sophomore year of high school. And I tried out to be Wendy and Tinkerbell, obviously. And I did not get either of those roles. I got the ostrich. Did you know there was an ostrich in Peter Pan? Is that a speaking role? No. I love Becky Thomas, my high school choral director with my whole heart. But I think that she gave me a pity roll. I think she wrote it into the script for me. I had a, like a latex head that went over my

head. You couldn't even see me. Thank God. And I just got chased by Lost Boys. And that's all I did. That's all I did. Now that you mentioned, I do not recall an ostrich. I think we should call someone. Yeah. So, you know, I, like, I loved music, but I just, nothing clicked yet. Like, it wasn't my thing yet. And then my parents split when I was 13. And I'm a only child. And so for me, I took it really hard. And again, I love both my parents so much. But it was a rocky couple of years to figure out what that looked like. And I think 13's already that age were like, I got tall, boys got cute. Everything's changing. You know, we got hormones. Where do we sit at lunch? Like, all that's existing. And I think it was that kind of crossroads, like one of the

mini that we have throughout our life where I was like, man, okay, what's going to be important to me, where am I going to go? Because I have a lot of feelings right now. And I'm at that age where I could go a million different ways. And I went to the guitar. Thank God. I couldn't play at all. And still, I'm not great. And I could admit that. But I just, I felt so much solace and refuge in being able to have all these big feelings about my life as a 13-year-old and how it was changing and evolving and all these things and knowing that I could keep it safe somewhere that wasn't within me. And I fell in love with it. Like, it's the, it's the truest love of my life. It really is. It's a little bit of an escape maybe in that time for you, a place to go. I mean, an escape, kind of. But really, I think

the most honest I ever am with myself is when I'm writing. Yeah. So you get... Don't tell my therapist that. So at some point, you get serious enough about it that you convince your mom you need to move to Nashville. Yeah. So you leave Knoxville. Uh-huh. That's quite a leap. Yes. Did your mom go along with that idea right away, or how did that go?

No. I mean, it was a bit of a journey. I'm lucky because, I'm privileged because, you know, growing up, my parents, like, if I wanted to try gymnastics, they let me do that. They supported me in that. I danced for 10 years. They were like, here, take these classes. You know, I understand that as a privilege. And it was a hobby.

I liked all of it. It was fun, you know? But I think particularly my mom watched music go from a hobby to a passion. It was like a real thing for me. And I started bugging her about moving to Nashville freshman year of high school. She was like, not yet. Well, no, I will get you there. It's not yet, you know.

She's like very faith-driven. And some stuff happened at high school my sophomore year. And she was like, let's finish this year and let's go. It's time. I was like, let's ride. Let's go. Did that incident at your high school impact the shooting that took place that people may know about? Did that impact your decision to sort of turn a page and move to Nashville?

That was the year that, yeah, so there was a shooting the seventh day of my sophomore year at my high school and changed a lot of people's lives, obviously. But that for me was the day that my mom said, okay, let's get through this year and let's, it's time. I think that was her sign to make a change for our family. For me, it made me go 100% 100 miles per hour into music. I mean, that was the year that I got hyper involved with my Glee Club and did all the musicals. I mean, I just, that was, that was, it was, I needed, I needed music, you know, and that's what made me feel safe at school. So I did that. And then, yeah, and then after that, we left.

So you get to Nashville, you're 15 years old. What's it like for an aspiring teenage musician in Nashville? What does that even look like? I was winging it. Let me tell you. I mean, we had met a couple people because we would make a lot of trips to Nashville. And I would sit outside of the Bluebird Cafe with my guitar on the railing because I couldn't get in. So I'd play for the line of people as they were going in to see the actual show.

I was just figuring it out. My mom had a full-time job, and we moved at the beginning of summer. I was 15. I couldn't drive yet. And so every day I would get up and I would flip between CMT and GAC, and I would watch the videos. And then at the end of the video, they would have the label, the songwriters, sometimes the director. And I would make a little list. So a couple hours every morning.

And then I would go to my mom's computer and I would just Google everyone. And that was my way of kind of studying the place. that I didn't know how to get to quite yet. And so I kind of took myself to school because I knew I needed to, like, move in that direction. I just didn't know how yet. So I just learned. So it's one thing to have those names down, but when a little 16-year-old girl, a young woman, knocks on the door of a label, what do they say?

Like, how did that, how did that begin for you in a way that they listened to you and said, yeah, come on, here you play? Well, my first ever experience, it was at an independent label that does not. not existing anymore. And I walked in and I played a song that I had written by myself and he looked at me and he said, well, there's all a regular Taylor Swift. And at the time, I mean, she was like, she is to me still. But I mean, at the time, she was the person I was studying, you know, because she was young and she was in country music and she was writing her own songs and she was defying every odd. And I was like, that's what I, yes, yes, you know, perfect. And so,

hearing someone to me that was almighty and powerful at the time, tell me no, and that was the reason it was heartbreaking for me. And in hindsight, it was so helpful for me because he was right. You know, I was like, I was so, I wanted to like be exactly what, I wanted to do exactly what she was doing, but I didn't know the difference of I needed to take what she was doing and learn from it, but I needed to do it my own way. And I needed to figure out what I wanted to say and how I wanted to say it and what that sounded like. And like, yes, be inspired by your heroes, but also what matters to you and how do you want to do things differently and make your own name and your own mark. And so it was a very bittersweet lesson, but it was needed. And then, you know,

fast forward a couple years later. And Taylor, like walked into my life like a, like an angel fairy and and changed it. So it's funny how the universe works. Isn't that crazy? Like somebody you look up to becomes almost a contemporary in many ways. Oh, she just, she posted about my record before my first single was top 40 and, um,

and really changed my life. And we were like very close for many years. And she really like took me under her wing as an artist, but really like as a woman. And, um, like my, a lot of my first, like my first time getting,

nominated, my first time performing on an award show, my first time having weird things written about me in a tabloid. She was my call, you know? And so I just, I couldn't respect her more and I'm very grateful for what she does for every female artist, but really every artist, yeah. What were the big lessons, write your own songs, be raw and honest, all the things that she does that a lot of people see in you as well. What did you take from her?

I remember I asked her, I was like, you know, I'm a girl on an independent label. So this is proving to be a little difficult for me. And she was like, you have to become undeniable. Whatever that means to you, whatever that looks like for you. But like one thing about me is I will not stop, you know. And so I think maybe she saw that in me. And she just said, yeah, you have to become undeniable. then no one can tell you no, because what is no?

You just pivot. Right. Pivot. Right. You know? That's a good piece of advice. Yeah. Easier said than done, but a piece of advice is.

I mean, listen, I'm still like telling myself that on the wreck. Just be undeniable. Yeah. Stick around for more of my conversation with Kelsey Ballerini right after a quick break. Welcome back now to the rest of my conversation with Kelsey Ballerini. So your first album, I think you're 19 years old when it comes out. I wrote it when I was 19. I think it came out.

Came out with your 20. spins off three number one songs, your first album. Yeah. Not a bad effort out of the gate. One was called Peter Pan. Yes, that's right. Not the ostrich. You graduated from the ostrich to a number one song.

Finally. What kind of validation did that feel like to have your first effort? You have no idea how it's going to go. You hope it's going to go well, but for it to go that well, how did it feel? I just kept my head down, honestly. And I wish that I could go back and, like, pick my head up every now and again. and just say, look, be present. Because there's even stuff that I don't remember.

Because it all happens so fast. And listen, when you're in that phase of your career, especially as a woman, especially in country, you are in a full sprint and you have no other option. And I'm proud of myself for that. But at the same time, I do wish that I would have picked my head up a little bit more and really taking it in. But the thing that made it so special was it wasn't just my first number one. It was like the label's first number one.

one. The first number one for the songwriters that I was involved with, like, it was a big team win and that felt even more special. And then when you, as you moved along, so you're 20 years old at that point, did you change the way from there that you approached music, the way you wrote songs? Like, what did you, in other words, what did you learn from that first experience that went well, but I'm sure you look back on him, be like, hmm, maybe I could have done this or done that. To stay naive. I think that naivety is such a gift, because, when you don't know what you can't do, you think you can do anything. And then in turn, you do. And I didn't know a lot. Like, I remember, remember Tomato Gate? Yeah. Okay, well,

I remember when Tomato Gate happened. I think Carrie Underwood had the number one song that week. And then I was in the top five with my first single. And so I was cast into this conversation that I just, honestly, I was not ready for. And I learned a lot very quickly. But I wish I could have been more educated and eloquent at that time to understand the lack of women in country music and have that conversation from a more empowered place. But I wasn't. I didn't, you know. But I think for me, that was just one example of like, I didn't know that there was a huge gap between men and women and, you know, on the charts. I didn't know that, you know, there were some things with an independent label that were going to be wonderful and some things

that were going to be harder. I didn't know about 360 deals. I didn't know about tour support. I didn't know about all these things, you know? And so I just loved the people I was around and trusted them, and I still do, and I still have most of the same team. And we just figured it out. And I'm glad that I had that level of naivity.

And I still try to keep a lot of it. I still try to be savvy and smart and educated, but still have just enough to keep the magic of what we do alive. That's well said. I was thinking too about you, the balance you have to strike when you write so honestly and so personally about your life to maintaining some level of privacy. Obviously, as you said, you're in a very high profile relationship right now. Yeah. So how do you live so openly, but also keep some things for yourself? I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I think it's trial and error. I'm not used to the, interest in me as a person as much as I have been warming up to the last couple of years.

You know, I think for a long time, I was used to being the girl that sings Peter Pan for people. And I love that. I love that role, you know, but as far as like the floodgates that Welcome Matt opened up, as far as human me, girl me, is different now. And so I'm still getting my footing on how I share things and what I share and my relationship and all that stuff. And I mean, you know, it's not normal. So I think it's fair enough that it's kind of an ebb and aflobe.

But, yeah. It seems from the outside, like you both handle it well. You both speak glowingly about each other in public. And I know you said about this album patterns that it's not all, you know, mushy-gushy. Yeah. I think it's like there's Instagram life and then there's real life too. I think the beautiful thing about being with an artist, you know, know, just in a different field, but an artist is that also equates to being with a truth teller.

And when I got into this relationship, I hadn't put out Welcome Matt yet. And I remember I sent that EP to him and I just said, hey, you're going to ask eventually. So I'm just going to go ahead and give this to you. And he lifted that record up and supported it and stood side stage the whole time. And, you know, that takes someone who really celebrates truth-telling and believes in the person that is doing it. And so when it was time to make this record, I couldn't shy away from that idea of, okay, like, new relationship to your relationship now. But, you know, when you're in your 30s, you have, like, all these past relationships that you have experienced and how your family operated. and all these things that you're bringing to the table. And of course, that's going to take some, like, some kind of, you know,

digging your footing to figure out and work through. And I'm really proud personally of the way that we've been able to do that. But I'm also really proud of the way that I was able to write about that and celebrate the moments that could have gone one way, but we fixed patterns and we did it together. And I think that that's a really celebratory thing on this record. and I'm really proud to be with someone who, again, celebrates truth-telling even when it's ours. I think I love love, and I love, I'm such a relationship girl, and I love my relationship,

but I love the nuance of it, and I love what's made it great, and what's made it great are the moments that I got to write about. Now, my hope is that kind of like what we talked about earlier, people can listen to it, and they can like they can listen to it as me talking about me which I know they will but I also do hope that now I've I've said as much as I really want to say about anything you know and so now I hope that people take it and put it on their own lives becomes theirs yeah yeah that's the goal last thing before I let you go the voice the voice this is a voice how exciting it's so fun to be in one of the big red chairs I know John legend feels so powerful with a button oh yeah Adam Levine Michael Bublae Yeah. How did that come about and how much fun has it been because you're already shooting it? I am. We're like pretty deep into it.

I filled in for Kelly a couple years ago during the battle rounds. And I had done a couple things like an advisor role and stuff on the show before. And I loved it. But when I sat in Kelly's seat, I was like, I think I want to do this. And so when Blake left, the producers came to Nashville and they were interviewing country artists. I didn't know who, but I was one of them. them. We went to dinner, and I knew them at this point. So I felt comfortable. We had this dinner, and at the end of the dinner, I mean, I came out of my skin. I don't know how I did this. I

land across the table, and I'm like, hey, I don't know who else you're talking to. I'm sure you're talking to legends. I was like, but I really want this. And I know that I'm probably newer, and I know that I probably don't have the track record that other people do, but like, I can do this. And I really, really want this job. And, fast forward to like truly like kismet perfect timing and I got the job. That's amazing. It's been awesome. And is it as fun behind the scenes as appears for someone who watches this show?

Yes. Arguably more. Yeah. Yeah. Just chaotic. We all talk just over each. It's like it's truly like a little sister and three big brothers. It should be a spinoff show.

And as you said, our buddy Carson Daley. Yes. I love Carson. All the time. He's like, I'm talking. Cameras are rolling guys. We're like, oh, sorry. Well, it's so fun to watch all these great things happening for you.

As you said, it's well-deserved. You've been at this a while riding these waves and now the voice and selling out the garden and this fantastic new album. Thank you. Very happy for you. Congratulations. Good to talk to you. You too. Also, I was stalking you on TikTok this morning.

Oh, you were? And someone asked you a question. Am I in TikTok? Yeah, you're on TikTok. And they asked you if you are more of a hamburger or a hot dog person. They did. And you said hamburger? Oh, you're a hot dog over hamburger?

Yeah. Really? Yeah. I wouldn't have paid you for that. Yeah. So next time we chat, let's go to a hot dog stand and just... We should have... I have to erase that from my memory.

Really? I feel very strongly about it. Do you really? I do. I mean, I like the cheeseburger, but... I was to say, not that you don't like the cheeseburger. It's that you love the hot dog. Like a New York hot dog.

I love a Nathan's hot dog, but if you're asking me... Like it from the street. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You walk up, you get it from the guy. Charmed, the allure of it. But a backdoor barbecue, you're taking the hot dog over the burger. I'm taking the hot dog. Really?

I'm taking the dog. Dumbass. And she does impressions. All right, let's go for a walk. After our sit-down conversation, we stepped outside into the crisp autumn New York City Day. You heard Kelsey say she stalked me on TikTok and found out I chose hamburgers over hot dogs. I legitimately don't remember that. It turns out I was asked at a Mets game last year that question.

I stand by it. I still like a hamburger, but we did find would our luck while. walking around New York City because there's one on every corner. A hot dog cart. So now, Kelsey and I step outside. This is my favorite time of year. I love it. I love it.

Just feeling like fall. It's not muggy, but it's not cold. Sweater weather. Sweat-a-weather. It's the best. It is so good. It's kind of a tight window here because by November it gets cold. I know.

And then you're in like three months of sleep. Yeah. So this, like, right now. But I also feel like Christmas us and just holidays in general here are, there's a different level of magic. It is. It is.

I feel like we're filming the opening credits of a TV show. I know, what's it called? Crossing the... It's not in New York. Are you... I don't know. This is a good time in New York, huh?

It is. It is. I do feel like there's such a magic to this city, and I've always told myself that I think there's gonna be a day where I'm gonna need like a creative, just shift. And I would love to just come up here and write for a month,

just Airbnb somewhere, and just be not in what I know. You know, there are people from Nashville recently even who've done that. Yeah. Like a little apartment in the village. Yes. Go record down there even. Yep.

Right? Record. Just get your people with you. Yep. You know? I think that'd be a good move for you. That's your next album. I know.

It might be. I do think being somewhere that's not so familiar to you, it breeds like a different perspective in the music. And I'm, I found that, like, on the retreats that we did for this album, I found that. So I do feel like, I'm like, huh, is next to New York? I don't know. I think we're planning the seat. Now, this is purely coincidence, I assure you.

But. You know what I see? You know what I see as hot dog? You know what I don't see? It's a hamburger. And it's a great day to be alive. Are you going to do it? Should we do it?

Yeah. Okay. Are you going to get a hot dog? Well, of course I am. I mean, yeah. I'm going to get a hot dog. How you doing, sir? Oh, my God.

I've got a big fan of New York City hot dogs here. Big fan, I'm a huge fan. Do you have a good hot dog here? Yeah. Yeah? Could we have two of them please? Thank you, sir. What are you?

What's your topping? I'm doing a little both. A little mustard? I'll do it with you. Do you both? Yep. But you're mostly a ketchup person. I am.

But for the bit, just because I feel like... This isn't a bit. This just happened. I feel like you would rather this be a cheeseburger, so I'm just gonna do exactly what you're I'm going to do exactly what you're doing so we can be aligned here. That's very generous of you. But walking up to here, I don't want the burger in my hand.

You want the hot dog? This feels like a hot dog moment. You live here. Yeah, this feels like a hot dog moment. See, I'm just bringing you back to your roots. Thank you. You're welcome. And it does kind of feel like I'm back in Knoxville a little bit too somehow.

Oh, yeah? Very kind of, yeah. Yeah. You know what we had? Oh, my gosh. There was a roller skating rink near the house that I grew up at, and they had pickle pops. So you get like the normal candy

Hot dogs are a pickle pop Is that what it sounds like? It is pickle juice frozen in an ice tray with a tooth thick in it And my God We would line up for those

That actually sounds really good I mean if you like pickles If you don't like pickles People are opposed hearing that right now Sorry If you don't like pickles That is a bad thing to hear That's nightmare fuel

That's some country stuff It is some country stuff Yeah That's what I'm saying. People are like, you're not a country. I'm like, have you ever had a pickle pop? I mean, case closed. Thank you. Please. I had a cow named, well, I had three cows. Rudolph, Snowball, and Angel. Nope, not Angel, that was my goldfish. Pumpkin, Rudolph, and Snowball. That's right. I had a goat named Mama Goat.

Well, we're going to do ketchup and mustard, right? Yes. The classic combo. Did you split those? cook them that's a good method do you see how he split it and then yeah and cut it and then and now it's back oh wow this is yeah this is good yeah yeah this is my first meal in new york starting it off right listen you brought it up thank you you brought up the hot dog controversy this is how you prep for madison square garden you know what i mean yes please thank you i mean look at the variety that comes out of this little place yes

Yeah. It's really good. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Thank you, sir. Oh, yeah. That is so good. Wow, he really went.

Cheers. Cheers, Kelsey. To patterns. To patterns and to New York City hot dogs. Mm-hmm. There it is. Welcome back. There it is.

Welcome back. Back on team hot dog. Back on team hot dog. Mm. That's right. Wow. Anyone else on a hot dog? The splitting method is interesting.

The splitting method is interesting. I haven't seen that before. I've cooked the inside. I like that. You know? Yep. Sorry, this is not cute. Well, I'm not going for cute at this time.

Okay, good, yeah, go. I'm just crush it. Okay, what do I owe you? Didn't it. Thank you. That's for you. Thanks. I'm actually eating this.

This is not for TV. I'm doing it. I needed this. It was a good hot dog. My big thanks to Kelsey for a great day in New York and a great conversation. You can catch her new album, Patterns, wherever you screen your music.

music. And my thanks to all of you for listening again this week. If you want to hear my conversations with our guests every week, be sure to click follow so you never miss an episode. And don't forget to tune in to Sunday today every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on Sunday Sit Down Time.