Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Gwyneth Paltrow (July 2022)

Episode Date: July 2, 2023

The 1998 film Shakespeare in Love won Gwyneth Paltrow an Academy Award for Best Actress and made her one of Hollywood's most sought-after stars. But fame began to take its toll. In 2008, she sent out the first Goop newsletter, a collection of recommendations for food, clothes and places to visit. Since then, Goop has grown in to a successful, wide-ranging lifestyle brand. In this week's "Sunday Sitdown," Willie Geist gets together with the actress turned entrepreneur on New York's Long Island. (Original broadcast date July 24, 2022.) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks as always for clicking and listening along. Very excited to bring you my conversation today with no less than Academy Award winner, Gwyneth Paltrow. Gwyneth doesn't do a ton of interviews like this, so it was cool to get a chance to sit down for a while inside her goop store in Sag Harbor, New York. Sag Harbor is kind of out there in the Hamptons out at the end of Long Island outside of New York City. Goop is the company she built. Started as a newsletter in 2008. You'll hear her explain its origins.

Just sending out some of the favorite things that she had seen experience while traveling, while on movie sets and different countries around the world and just saying, hey, this thing is cool. Check it out. Try it if you want to. Now it's become a huge company that sells a variety of products, including some headline grabbers, like a certain candle that we're going to talk about. Certain, oh gosh, how can I say this here on the podcast?

certain toys that are fun for people to play with, I guess. And we also talked about her sort of stepping away from acting. I mean, totally on top of the game. She won the Best Actress Academy Award, as you know, for Shakespeare in Love. She won an Emmy and a Golden Globe. And then she kind of decided, yeah, I want to do something else when she had her kids who are now teenagers. So there's a lot to talk about, and pretty revealing stuff about, she realized maybe she didn't love acting as much as she thought she would.

She grew up the daughter, of course, of Bruce Paltrow, the great producer and director of television series, and her mother, the wonderful Blythe Dan, or a great actress in her own right. And she kind of went into the family business and then decided as she got deeper and deeper into it, scarred a little bit by the celebrity side of it, being chased by paparazzi and all that, that she kind of wanted out. So it's a really interesting conversation, not just about Goop, but about the evolution, sort of of a celebrity who was as famous as you can be and then decided kind of to step out of the game. So sit back, relax, enjoy a rare conversation with Gwyneth Paltrow right now on the Sunday Sit Down podcast.

Thanks for doing this. It's good to see you. Thank you for having me. Thanks for hosting us in your spot. I'm thrilled that you're all out here in our little store. What is it like to be sitting in a brick and mortar store surrounded by sort of the universe you've created? So much of what you've done is online, obviously, but to sort of. sort of see it all in front of you and have people come in and look and touch and feel. You know, I always find it surreal a little bit when I come into a store. And I think even more so now in a post-COVID landscape, because our stores were closed for

so long, it's so nice to actually, I don't know, come back into a physical space and see customers and watch people as they mill around and ask questions and pick things up. And it's such a place of discovery for people. and everybody's always smiling when they're in the store. So I love coming into the store. That's a good sign. Is there one place when they come in later today? They'll go.

Is it to the candles, the famous candles? Is there something they're really coming in here looking for? I think we have kind of a variety of people who come into the store. You've got like your diehard goop shoppers who come always for G-label every month or they come to see, you know, our curation. We're kind of known for the curation and assortment. And then there are people who've heard about it in the press who are just curious and are coming in either to see sexual wellness or candles. And then there's the clean beauty, of course, which we're really proud of that whole section and what we'll be able to, I don't know, contribute to the clean beauty movement.

And so there's always something for everybody here in the store. I think. Absolutely. I have to do some browsing when I leave. I have some customers. My mother, for example, who mentioned the few things. should like to pick up. More on that later. So we were just talking and I didn't realize how long this has been brewing in your head. The newsletter is 2008. The company comes a few

years later. But sort of at the height of your Hollywood powers 20 years ago, you were already thinking about something else. Where did that start for you? Well, I think I've always, I've always been a person that's been incredibly curious and always wanted to learn. And that to me is also like learning where the best bagel shop inside Harbor is. And, you know, kind of gathering good information and sharing good information. It's always been my real passion. And I've always been like a pretty discerning customer. So I remember when the internet was kind of first getting going,

I couldn't really find anything in the lifestyle space that. spoke to me as a customer and, you know, I didn't trust the travel curations, for example. And so I thought, gosh, it would be so fun to have a site on the internet that kind of had a collection or an aggregation or a curation of really the things that make me excited and want to kind of land in a city and take a walk or, you know, and I just, I, so I started thinking, like, what could it be and what form would it take? You know, will everyone think I'm crazy if I start a website? So it took me a long time of talking to people, meeting with people, asking questions.

Even before I just decided to send that very first simple newsletter, it was a good few years in the making. And as you thought about it then, was that sort of, this is my next chapter after acting or is this a parallel chapter with acting? It's a good question. I mean, I think I've always sort of subconsciously been a little bit ahead of myself. And so I describe it as like I'm in my life and I'm doing my thing, but there's some part of me that's preparing for something else in my future. And looking back, I think I've done it a number of times. And this was definitely one of them. I'm like, I don't think I was consciously thinking about a next chapter.

But I think I was definitely thinking about, you know, the years that I had spent doing three, four, five movies a year, traveling all the time. missing my home, missing my friends and family. And also wondering, you know, do I have permission to even ask the question, like, do I, would I want to do something else? Like, would I have the liberty to pursue a different passion and what would that look like? And so it was a slow process for me. And I think that it required a bunch of, I don't know if bravery is the word, but you know, I had like a pretty established career and, and it definitely was like a leap that I was taking. When you started writing the newsletter, word got out, people like, oh, Quina Feltro's recommending

things. This is at what point along that journey did you say, oh, this can be something more? This is the newsletter's fun and people are picking up on it. It's getting a little bit of buzz, but maybe there's a company in there somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, well, I remember a specific moment when I had done a piece on the French pharmacies. So the pharmacies in France are fantastic and they have all these amazing products.

And I always looked forward if I was going to France to going into the local pharmacy for the lip balm. And they have like homeopathic burn cream and, you know, the moisturizer that all the like model makeup artists put on you. You know, it was like all this like a treasure trove of. stuff. And so I kind of had done an edit of the best of the French pharmacy. And somebody stopped me on the street and said, you know, I love that piece so much. I just wish I could have clicked to buy at the end because I was on, you know, Amazon.fR trying to find this and that. And it was such a nightmare. And it was the first time that it occurred to me that you could have e-commerce as a service, as opposed to just being so transactional, like, buy this, buy this, like that a curation was actually

valuable and information in someone like going out and doing all the legwork for you could actually be a value proposition. And so that's when I started to think about how e-commerce might play into this. Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Gwyneth Paltrow right after the break. Welcome back. Now more of my conversation. with Gwyneth Paltrow. Did you have people in your life saying, this is nice, Gwyneth, like you're doing pretty well with the acting thing? Let's keep our focus here.

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, not in my immediate life because I think my family and my friends, I think they're used to my, I think what was always a really entrepreneurial spirit, right? I mean, I think when you're an artist, it's very entrepreneurial. I have to believe in yourself so much when nobody else believes in you. you have to visualize that you're going to get somewhere. And it's, it's so there are a lot of parallels,

I think. But definitely, you know, people not closest to me were like, you know, what the hell is she doing? Why is she doing this? And which,

you know, it's like story in my life. Well, they're always skeptics when someone well known undertakes something completely different. And they go, well, she's famous and that's great,

but can she run a company? Yeah. How did you bump up against those skeptics? and deal with some of that criticism. And like being my own more skeptic in that capacity, right? Not knowing if I had the ability to run a company and really having to learn on the fly how to run a company and making so many mistakes, you know, because I hadn't grown up in the world of e-commerce or growth marketing or anything.

You know, I had just, I just had passion and an instinct and, like, I thought, you know, good taste. And so I set out to do it. And I didn't set out to run it. When I first started to think about how to monetize it, I thought somebody else has to do this. And so I hired a CEO, a great guy named Seb, who was my first CEO in London. And unfortunately, when I was moving to America, his mother became ill and he couldn't move. He was going to come. And over the next couple of years, I realized that certainly at the size,

we were that I was the right person to run the company. And despite the myriad mistakes that I've made, I still think that that was the right decision up to a point. I mean, you know, I think at a certain point, it's going to be too much for me. And I'll hand the, hand the keys to somebody else. Not there yet, though. I mean, not today. I'm not there yet. I think, again, like, going back to the looking through this whole thing from the lens of like, I'm a little ahead of myself, I, I do think there's a part of me that feels like if for the next phase of big growth, it might need a different person. I would always be the founder, obviously, and I would always work at the company.

But I'm just not sure if I, I'm not sure what it means to run a company past a certain revenue number. And like, so I'm just allowing myself the permission to sort of, contemplate, like when I might want to hand the reins over to somebody else. Is it three years? Is it, you know, five years? Is it? It's definitely not tomorrow, though. But you've got the company this far. You've done pretty well with it. You don't think you could take it to the next level? Well, it's hard for me to gauge because I know what I have not known from zero to where we are now, and I don't know what I don't know from now until, like, the next

phase. And so, I mean, I ask questions all the time. I call other founders all the time. What should I anticipate? Like, what's around the corner? How do you really scale after this, you know, point? And I think that I could probably do it to a certain point, but I don't know. I'm not, I'm not sure if I could run it. You know, Like if, you know, if we were had an even more complex international, omni-channel business, like, I just don't know that I would be the right person at that point. You might be, though. They might make you. We'll see.

I think there are probably people on the outside who think, again, with any company with a well-known person, like, she's in the ads, she's the name on the door. Yeah. But that's certainly not the case with you. You're in every meeting. You're making all the decisions. Was that a hard adjustment for you where, oh my gosh, this is all coming back to me at the end? There's no director. There's no agent. It's like, I'm the one making these calls. Was that an adjustment for you?

Yeah, for sure. And a scary one, I think when you work at a company like Goop, you have to assemble a great team around you and really, you know, I think the team that we have is amazing and we make decisions collectively. but the buck always stops with me. So that's scary, right? Because especially when you've raised money and you're responsible for the investments of other people, you take these things really seriously. And I would say it is difficult to be the creative force, the driving force creatively and to have all these ideas all the time,

but also to be the person who's responsible for the P&L. Sometimes those are competing intentions. And so it's been very, it's been very interesting for me to learn how to adjudicate those things and understand when it's okay to take a risk and when it's not. I mean, you never know 100%, but it's complex, I think, to be a founder and CEO for that reason, but then at the same time, I think when it's working, it does work well because you understand the DNA of the brand so well.

It's everything. You live it. You're so passionate about it. You breathe it. And then there's also the fiscal. piece where it's like, okay, now I need to pull all that into the real world and make sure that this is functioning, you know? Yeah.

I mean, we were talking about founders a little bit earlier. I wanted my own house also, and I know that as fun and invigorating as it is, there are some really tough days. And there are moments where you're like, actually, I'm not sure if this is going to work. I don't know if we're going to get there. Did you have several of those moments before you got to this point? I have them all the time. I mean, yeah, of course.

And especially like having gotten through a pan. pandemic and now there's a looming recession and it's always something and you think like, you know, is this going to be okay? Do I have the chops to get us through this? Like what am I not thinking about? What else, you know, is like what are the potential landmines? And it's funny. I saw something once it said, you know, it's like the creative process and it was like it said like someone ideating or having an idea and it was like, this is brilliant. I am brilliant. I think this is okay. Like, I don't think this is okay. This is shit. I am shit. And then it starts again, you know? It's like, and that's very true. And I think that's just part of the, the seasons of, you know, being a founder and being so close to what you're doing and having to get excited by your own ideas, which is so weird. And then trying to execute them with your team, you know, and while balancing everything else. And sometimes you think, like, this. is terrible. Like, why am I doing this? You know? Out. I've had many of those days. But then the next

day is a good day and you're right back at it, right? Yeah. Or the next day, you know, someone, you know, says, like, you know, I had a conversation with my daughter about her sexual wellness that I never thought possible and you facilitated that. And I'm so grateful because I grew up with all this weird shame around it. And now, you know, and she cited goop. Like, things like that happen. and it like makes me cry or someone says, you know, I found the best restaurant I ever went to and, you know, on your thing and I met some, you know, it's like those, that, that web of meaning that happens when I think you're creating a business from a place of really wanting to help people find great things and, you know, bring them shortcuts and and bring them amazing quality products. Like that happens. So those things always fill me back up and make me think like, okay, I, You know, I'm going to keep going. Keep going. Put your head down and keep going. Let's talk about some of those amazing products. Okay. Some of the ones that get the most attention. Yes. Obviously the ones that right on the front of the website.

Yeah. Hoop.com, bam. There it is. Travel friendly toys and things like that. Right. The candle on top there. Tell me the story behind the candle, the one that everyone talks about. Yes, I will. So I think in order to tell the story of the candle, I probably have to tell kind of the broader headline, which is that we really believe at Goop that there are a bunch of taboos that exist that keep women particularly kind of ensconced in shame and out of their power. And so we like to find those paradigms and expose them. And this, this smells like my vagina. Can I say that on morning TV? Okay, good. So see, we've made progress. We did. It's a breakthrough right here.

So that, so they're really, they're really provocations more than candles. They're, they're, they're meant for, they're meant to sort of take people by surprise and then ask, like, what is this? What does this mean? And this is like triggering and why is it triggering? And so I think there's a lot of, it's certainly when I grew up, there was a lot of shame around our sexuality or ambition. You know, to be a woman growing up. up when I grew up, there was a lot that the culture told us about, like, how we should be, how we should not be.

And so this smells like my vagina candle is really like that provocation to say like, it's amazing to be a woman in every way. It's amazing to have that kind of power and you deserve to have that agency. And so it's just kind of a funny, strong way of, you know, being a provocateur. And it doesn't hurt that it gets people talking, brings people to the site. Yeah. I think it's a good thing that when. people talk about that. Well, when they talk about your brand, I think, in any, in any respect,

it's, it's as long as, you know, it's like from people coming to check it out for themselves, then it's always a good thing. And you guys have a big focus on pleasure, which I feel like, even lately, partly because of you guys, people talk about that world. It's okay. It's okay to just have pleasure and you have some helpful ways to get there. Absolutely. And I think, You know, it's a conversation that we started around that very thing, right? Like, why is it, you know, how come sexuality in our culture is so geared towards servicing men? And, you know, what is it like, what is it like to be a woman who is not afraid of orienting around pleasure? It's not selfish.

It's not, it's beautiful. It's important. You know, it doesn't have to be sexual pleasure, but just this idea that, You know, we all deserve pleasure, and it's a beautiful part of life, right? And so the sexual piece of that, you know, sexual wellness is a really new vertical, both at Goop and I think culturally. And it's a really important part of being well and feeling well. And there's a lot of really interesting research emerging around, you know, the importance of having being integrated in that way. And so I think we're really proud of what we've been able to do culturally. and shake that taboo off a bit. And I saw someone forwarded me an article the other day where, you know, they were some,

a buyer from a store was, I think it was Bloomingdale's giving us credit for going first and kind of making it permissible. And that now Bloomingdale's was carrying sexual wellness and Sephora. And you see all these stores now kind of like following in our, the path that we hacked down with a machete. Well, it's also, it's kind of a smart trick. Like if you have that candle and what did you hear about the candle? And then my 15-year-old daughter and my wife are in the car talking about it, opens the door, right, to real conversations about bigger issues.

That's the hope. So what do you see, whether it's with you at the helm or not, what do you see next for Goop? Like, you've gotten to this amazing place. Yeah, thank you. Where does it go from here? Well, I think we still, you know, we have a lot of work to do. I think just, again, like having been a startup and made a lot of mistakes, like we're

we're in a really interesting foundational year of like cleaning up a bunch of processes. And we're kind of like having a grow up year, you know, like fixing the website and implementing OKRs and lots of really fun things like, yeah, very exciting, extremely exciting. And I think we really are excited to keep kind of introducing the brand to people who might not know about the brand yet or, you know, bringing people in who might just think that we make candles and kind of trying to articulate the ways in which, you know, what our values are really. And that, you know, clean beauty and clean wellness and are really important. And just this, that I think that the lifestyle aspect is exciting to me as well, you know, that there are multiple ways that you can reach a customer.

We started a food business that's very nascent in Los Angeles that's doing extremely well. But I think it's a great way to deliver on the beauty and wellness from a different angle, right? Because if you're eating food that is super delicious and very, very healthy, then that also helps with your vitality and your skin quality and stuff like that. So we're always just trying to push further and think about the different ways that we can connect with the customer and think about, you know, the exciting products that we have in the pipeline. And there's a lot still left to do. I mean, you're in the trenches every day and I know what that's like.

But do you allow yourself moments to stop and go, wow, I was typing the newsletter in my kitchen. I was psyched because I had a $45 ad one day. We did it, guys. Do you have built this company? Like, do you have time to stop and say, not bad? Sometimes. Sometimes I do. I mean, I think I've had a moment recently where somebody was asking me about it.

And I thought, like, I just had one of those moments where it's almost like, you know, your eyes refocus. And you're like, and I thought, wow, you know, we've been through a lot. We've, you know, because sometimes, as you said, you're so in the trenches that it's impossible to stop and take stock and sort of absorb what we've been able to achieve. And, you know, I feel so lucky that we've been able to, I don't know, that the vision has been able to come to life and that we keep growing and try new things. And yeah, I kind of can't believe it. But I'm really happy we're here. I mean, I don't know what the future holds. There's a lot.

There's a lot still to do. But I'm very proud of us and where we've been able to get to. Stick around for more of my conversation with Gwyneth Paltrow right after a quick break. Welcome back now to the rest of my conversation with Gwyneth Paltrow. Do you ever look back, Gwyneth, and say, I left behind, not completely obviously, but I left behind an incredibly successful acting career. Do you miss that part of your life to be on sets all the time and traveling and doing all those things? No, I don't.

I really don't miss it at all. I think I'm so lucky that I got to do it, and I still, I'm sure I'm, I still will at some point. And I don't know, the team is always trying to get me to do a movie. But I really love what I do. And I love how immediate it is and how, you know, we're able to create product out of thin air that we believe in so much. Like, that's so powerful.

And I don't know. I just, I don't, it's funny. I don't daydream about the movie business. at all. It's, but, um, but sometimes, you know, when I think about, I did, I did, you know, I did promise my mother that at some point, like if we ever sell the company or if I, I am not CEO or at some point before I die, told her that I would go and, you know, do a play. So I'm going to stick, I'm going to, I'm going to deliver on that promise at some point.

Okay. Okay. You get you on Broadway. Yes. That's what she would like. Okay. That's fair. Yeah.

You also, what a gift to be able to have this period of your life with your kids. which I know was intentional. That was part of the decision to step away and to do this and to be with them. You know, yes, you're working hard, but you can be at the games and school plays and all of those things. I promised you I wouldn't bring up college, so we want to do that to you. It's, you know, it's an axiom that's on my horizon. I know. But has that been maybe even the best part of all this, that you haven't been flying all over the world,

that you've been home with the kids? Yeah, definitely. I mean, especially now that I do have one going off to college, you realize how finite, it just, it went so quickly. And you're right. You know, I used to be, I was talking to my son about this the other day, actually, that I used to take him and his friends in London to do kickboxing class every Wednesday. And I would be editing the newsletter on my iPad because it would go out, you know, Thursday morning. And, but I was always there. I was always in this basement in Swiss cottage in England, you know, like at the kickboxing.

So I was able to be there for most of it, which I really appreciate because, I mean, being on set is amazing, but the hours are long. I mean, you know, sometimes 18 hours. So there were certain times when I did do movies, when I had them and I, you know, I would leave the house before they woke up and I would come home after they were already asleep. and that was tough. So I feel very blessed that I've been able to try to pursue this other career and kind of like keep hours, you know, where I'm able to be home and make them dinner and stuff like that. It's like they say you'll never regret a decision that keeps you with their kids more, right?

That's true. Whatever that is. You're absolutely right. And you've done that. You've done that. I was interested to hear you say in another interview that you're almost more comfortable doing this than you were doing movies. You seem so at ease as an actor.

and you did so well with it. But you've sort of said despite, you know, your parents being in the business, it didn't really feel like home to you. You didn't love the fame that came with it and all that. What did you mean when you said that? Well, I think it's a few things. I mean, and it's a bit of a double-edged sword, right? Because fame is also incredible and brings with it amazing things and opportunities.

And I was able to leverage that to start goop. And, you know, I still do in a lot of ways. But I think, you know, having done now in my corporate life, like having done Myers-Briggs a couple times, like, I'm an introvert. I always test, yes. And so I'm sort of a fake extrovert who's had to get comfortable being, like pretending to be an extrovert. And I'm really not. So I don't love being in front of the camera. I don't love being the center of attention.

I hate speaking in public. And I've had to learn all those skills to sort of like prop myself up and do it anyway. but I'm much happier in a much more quiet private scenario, and I'm much more internal, I think, than people would probably expect. And so, you know, the acting keeps you very much in that extroverted role. And so it's not as comfortable for me. That's interesting. Yeah.

And you were watching your mom, the wonderful, like, Thanner, as a young girl, having an exciting life and playing these incredible parts. And so that's probably, right, you were just kind of following what she was doing. Yes, and I really thought that, you know, my mother, when I was, I spent so much time sitting, watching her rehearse plays. It was like my, such a giant part of my childhood. And she was just so incredibly powerful. And she had such freedom on stage.

And so I was like, well, I want to do that as a job because that looks, you know, But I didn't realize that there were other means to that. I thought, you know, you have to be an actress in order to really be, you know, self-realized like my mom. But, and I'm, and I wouldn't change anything, you know, and especially when I look back on certain times in my life or certain roles or certain plays I did or certain movies that, you know, had an impact on people. I'm so happy that I did all of that. You know, that was really special and a very unique life. When you were coming up trying to be like your mom, it was kind of just for fun, what was the point at which you said, oh, this could be my life, this could be my career?

Like, when did you really start to take the acting side seriously? I was so focused on it. I mean, my parents would tell you, well, not my dad, obviously. My parents always said that I always said I wanted to be an actress. the time I could speak. And so I was very focused on it. And I knew, I knew when I was in high school that I was going to do it and I was going to be able to have some success.

Like I could feel it. You know, and so I don't know if I could feel it because it was going to happen or I manifested it because I had that belief. But I never questioned it. I really, I had a very, like, strong bullseye, you know, that I was going. moving towards. That's interesting because then later you're kind of saying that was the focus and then you realize maybe it shouldn't have been later on. But I mean, you went on this incredible run of like seven Emma sliding doors into Shakespeare in love where you win the

Oscar and clearly your life has turned upside down. Great professional success. But now it's like who's she dating. Who's she going to marry? Cameras chasing you everywhere. What was that transition like in your life? it's very overwhelming. It's very intense. I crossed a threshold at some point. I think it was probably around the time of winning the Oscar where you go from people kind of being curious about you or discovering you or rooting for you to the whole to all being upended and people really wanting to tear you down and take great pleasure in it. and wanting to know everything about you in a way that can feel really intrusive. And, you know, especially if you're having babies and you're being chased by 10 SUVs. And luckily, that doesn't happen so much anymore. But it's a very unnatural way to go through life.

I don't think anybody should have, I don't think anybody is prepared, I should say, for that level of scrutiny and that energetic force directed at one point. person, I think it's really unhealthy. And it was, um, it was really intense. I mean, really, really intense. I had scary. Yes, absolutely. I mean, you know, where you're thinking there's going to be car accidents and people are tapping your phone and writing all kinds of stuff about you that is not true. And it's a lot. It gets away from you. You can't control all that, right? You can't put your finger in every hole in the dam. You just have. Which ends up being a really beautiful lesson because it's really just a microcosm.

It's really just a lesson in knowing who you are, loving the people you love, being totally in integrity, and like, fuck everybody else. Now that, I know you cannot say on morning television. We'll believe that. You can't. You open the door to whatever now. Okay, good. So, I mean, it seems like probably that was part of the reason, too, where you were already thinking about spinning out of acting because you didn't love the extra stuff that came with it,

which brought you to this place, to goop in some ways. I think that's true. I think I, as I said, I never felt very fully comfortable being in the public eye to that degree. I still don't. But it's fantastic that I've been able to do something that's very fulfilling and work with a team that I adore and be able to build something at some. And of course, like as I said, you know, I still am the public, like, consumer-facing person for the brand too.

So I have to stay a little bit connected to the public, which is fine. But also, I think that I'm older now and I'm not doing movies with so much regularity. It's like simmered down a bit, which feels really nice. It's interesting to hear you say you're not comfortable with it because you from the outside, you just look like you kind of glide through life with ease. We don't see a lot of stress written on your face. But you don't, you've never really loved that. That side of it, have you? No.

I've never felt it's like my natural state. I wonder if it's anybody's, though. It's not. Everyone's faking it. Do you think? Most people? I don't, I mean, I don't know, but I definitely was faking it. You have a big birthday coming up?

Yep. Do we have plans? Are you excited about it? Oh, my gosh. Does it mean something to you? Is it just another birthday? I am so excited about it. First of all, I'm so surprised and delighted that I'm not freaked out about it.

Because when I was turning 40, I was a mess. And I was so anxious about it. And I had like grief and it felt like really scary. And so I thought, oh, boy, 50's going to be, it's going to feel. And I feel so good. Like I'm so happy to be turning 50. I feel so grateful. I'm so happy that I have my health.

and such great relationships in my life. And I think I grieved a lot of the piece around, like, the physical part. You know, I think when you grow up in the culture very much and, like, pictures of you everywhere, and you turn 40, people make such a big deal about it that you think, like, oh, my God, I'm, you know, I'm over the hill. Like, and so there's a kind of grief in letting go of that. youth in a way, but that I think also when I was turning 40, I had a lot going on in my life that I hadn't resolved yet. And so now, and I always say this like to my friends and my team, like I felt like then I turned 40 and I got this amazing software upgrade, which really felt like,

oh, this is actually kind of great. And like, I feel like I can be who I am a little bit more. And I have permission. And now I feel like that times 100. And I just feel like this is who I am. And I really like myself and I really know all of my flaws and I'm really working on them. But like, I'm okay being where I am and I'm okay being who I am. And so I'm excited to turn 50. I'm really excited about it, actually, which sounds weird. I totally agree with you. I'm serious, when you turn 40, I think you stop, you realize you've wasted a lot of time worrying about what other people thought about, particularly you on a different level.

Strangers, what they think about you. Yeah. But when you turn 40, you said, what am I? doing. You just be with the people I like, do the things I like to do. It's not that complicated. Like, who am I trying to win over? My big thanks to Gwyneth for hosting us at the

Goop Store in Sag Harbor and for a great conversation. My thanks, of course, to all of you as well for listening again this week. If you want to hear more of these conversations with my guests every week, be sure to click follow so you never miss an episode. And don't forget to tune in to Sunday today

every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit Down podcast.