Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Hasan Minhaj

Episode Date: October 30, 2022

Comedian Hasan Minhaj got his big break when he became a correspondent for The Daily Show with Jon Stewart at the helm. Since then he's had an award-winning series along with stand-up specials on Netflix. Minhaj and Willie Geist got together in New York for a "Sunday Sitdown."  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks as always for clicking and listening along. I have a great conversation for you today and a very special one because it's more than two and a half years in the making. My guest is comedian and actor Hassan Minhaj. Here's the backstory. We had Hassan booked on Sunday today for a shoot on March 13th, 2020, if that date rings a bell to any of you.

It was the day that COVID-19 was declared a global pandemic and effectively the world shut down. Believe it or not, the day before on March 12th, we were sort of negotiating, should we do it? Can we pull it off? There were some texts and emails back and forth. And ultimately, we decided mutually, you know what, let's just put this on pause and we'll do it in two weeks. Ha! Two and a half years later, we finally got together. Hassan and I met up finally at the Cherry Lane Theater in New York City's West Village,

as a tiny theater, but a legendary one, where he began to sort of workshop his comedy and this show that would become his first Netflix special called Homecoming King that came out back in 2017. Now, Hassan is back with another Netflix special called The King's Jester. He has wrapped since we were supposed to meet. His show Patriot Act with Hassan Minhaj after six seasons, a show where he took on the Saudi government, among other powerful people, and instant. institutions, a very funny guy, a very smart guy, a very charming guy, and I think you'll agree, just a fun guy to listen to. A great conversation with Hassan Minhaj right now on the Sunday

Sit Down podcast. It's great to see you, man. Good to see you again. So this interview originally was scheduled. Yes. March 13th, 2020. Yeah. Something happened that day. Something was going on in the world. Something was going on. And I got a text from my publicist saying, hey, should you Should we do this interview? I'm like, I don't know. Things are kind of weird right now in New York. Yeah. And then we said those emails went on and it said, let's do it in two weeks.

Yeah, give it a two and a half years later. Yeah, we'll get sweatpants. We'll watch the last dance. We'll get to this. We did all that. We did all that. Yes. Here we are two and a half years later.

So it's good to see it. Good to see you, man. Good things come to those who wait, I guess. I guess so. How did the last two and a half years treat you? Yeah. Busy man. Busy guy, had some kids.

Well, a kid. did a special toured. Yeah, it's been fun. Family's grown. Comedy. It's back. It's back. Yeah. Yeah. It's bigger than I think it's ever been before. You think so? Why do you say that? I think the live touring business is, it's grown in ways that you couldn't even imagine. I mean, the number of guys that are doing arenas and theaters, it's, there's so many amazing comedians now. I really think it's kind of the golden age of comedy again. Yeah. And Netflix specials like yours are not are not hurting either. Before we get to the current Netflix special, we have to talk for a second about where we are right now. Yeah. Yeah. This is a really special place for you going back to really what was your breakout performance, which became the Netflix special. Yeah. So just so everyone who's watching this, we're not in a community theater. We're not back in my high school. We're at the Cherry Lane Theater in New York City. To me, this is one of the best off-Broadway houses in the city because it's 200 seats. It's quaint. It's in the most beautiful neighbor. in New York City, in my opinion, you know, it's so Instagramable and gorgeous. It's, it's, it's aspirational New York. Like, this is what you want New York City to look like. And then where I was

living, Hell's Kitchen is a very different type of New York City. Right. It's more daredevil, New York City. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But this is where I put up Homecoming King. I was doing stand-up comedy for almost 12 years at that point. And, you know, I was kind of hitting a wall in the clubs. And I started to see there were these storytellers that were starting to take their comedy into the theater space. Guys like Colin Quinn and Mike Barbiglia, they found these second wins to their career where they were able to hit a new audience in a new way. And so I thought, hey, maybe I could put up my show here. And I was working at the Daily Show at the time with John Stewart. And then I put up the capital to pay rent and put up a show here. And I put up a show here.

and kind of the rest is history. I think it's such an interesting process that people on the outside don't see. They see the finished product. Yeah. But to do a special like that, like where do you start, what goes into it,

how long does it take to get to that moment where you're finally on the stage and this place is full? Yeah, it starts with tiny little black box theaters like this. Yeah. But funny enough, I started doing the moth, started doing the Moth storytelling hour. And a couple of my stories were starting to resonate with people.

I didn't know I had this impact with NPR listeners. Like, there's like a particular demo that was really into what I was doing. And I then got the idea to, hey, maybe I could put up a show here. And you do residencies, you do long runs. It's really like theater. You'll do dozens to hundreds of shows in a place like here. And as long as you keep selling tickets, you'll extend the run. And you keep just refining this marble, this show.

and you find little moments every night. Sometimes you'll find a moment in the matinee show. There'll be, you know, like a three o'clock matinee show, and you'll see your high school librarian in the audience. Mrs. Caldwell will be there, and, you know, she'll have a bunch of, you know, broaches and scarves on, and she'll be, like, nicely done. And this is where it all happened,

and I really was able to refine Homecoming King and solidify it. And it was through this space that I found Ludwig Gorensen, the composer, who's an amazing film. composer who decided to compose the music and we worked together on this special as well. It's where I started meeting amazing lighting designers and stage designers and adding that to the genre of stand-up, I think, was something interesting and new that people hadn't seen at the time in 2017. So that was, you started doing this if I had my math right in the fall of 2015, right?

So seven years of, I think, this month, actually. Yeah. So we opened here at the Cherry Lane. Right here. So at what point does what you've created on this? this stage start to build to the point where Netflix calls and says, we like what you're doing. Yeah. Let's make this a special.

Yeah. So I had done several runs here. And there still was this big gap between, hey, this guy's going to stand on stage with a microphone and a curtain behind them versus this insane storytelling laser light show. You know what I mean? Like there was a big gap between what I was doing and kind of what traditional Netflix comedy specials were. And so we actually shot a little proof of concept here in the West Village and we shot one of the

performances and we had the lighting cues and the lighting design built and showed it to Netflix and then they got it. They were like, okay, we see what you're trying to do here. And I got to give them credit. They really were visionaries and were like, I can see what this could be. I don't think they saw what reach it would have. I don't think I saw that either, but it really changed my life and made me an international touring comedian that could do theaters and arenas now. Sometimes it takes one or two people to say, got it.

Because it was unconventional, right? It wasn't what we're used to seeing from stand-up comedy. Totally. So I just, you know, shout out to Kristen Zulner for seeing my Vimeo Link in a Dream. Now was going to be the name of my production company, by the way, Vimeo Link in a Dream. Really? Yeah, yeah. It worked for you.

you know there's so many times you'll have a late night set or a pilot and it's just on a vimeo link right you know the password is one two three four please buy this you know and you send it around town and you just you cross your fingers and you count the views you're like two people saw it i can see the views right right was it the right two people exactly all it needs is two right and all you need honestly though all you need is is one but it yeah it did start with the people here though when we first did our show in the fall of 2015, it was maybe half full. And then through word of mouth, 50 people became 70 people. The next show was like 85, 100, 200. And then we started selling out shows. And then I was able to take it on tours across the country. And that's only possible in a place like New York City. There's an

appreciation for the live arts here where people are willing to take a chance or a bet on a comic maybe they'd never heard of and go, let me just see that show. I heard about that show from a friend. texted me about that thing. Oh, I'm going to go check it out. And so I owe a lot to this theater. And so now let's go ahead seven years. And here you are on Netflix with this huge special, the King's Jester. There's so much in here. There's family. There's fertility. Yeah. We get real specific about a lot that's going on with you. Yeah, we start real intimate. We get right at it. We get right into it. Yeah, we violate all HIPAA privacy issues. And I just tell you what it is. Yeah, it's pretty intense.

So on that count, I'm curious, does any of that material go by your wife saying, I'm going to describe in great detail our attempt to have a child? Yeah. So, you know, with comedy, you need enough time to go through the pain and then process it. Right. So we had been trying for years and years. And luckily, you know, now my daughter is four and my son is two. So there is a happy ending. We were able to start a family.

But after a few years, my wife and I were able to look back on that pain and find. humor in it. And that's where I think a lot of comedy is. You know, a lot of times people say, can jokes be mean? Can they be cruel? I've seen humor as a source of strength. If I can laugh at this deeply painful thing, I'm looking at it in its eye and being like, you can't hurt me anymore. And to me, my favorite comedians were able to not only make fun of others, but take the piss out of themselves and go, hey, I'm already going to beat you to the punchline. You can't hurt me. And it exhibits a level of confidence and strength. And I think it's a form of therapy to say, hey, these things, these demons, they're not so scary anymore.

So to me, comedy became a source of strength for me, not a place of cruelty or weakness. Yeah. And as you say, it turned out okay for you. Turned out okay. You look back and laugh. Yeah, yeah. But some of it is really painful going back to your childhood. Yeah.

And you talk about the sort of the genesis of Patriot Act, which went on become your successful show. Yeah. this moment, which I'll let you describe, where at the end you basically tell your first joke. Yeah. Like you get your first laugh that might have saved you from something like really dark. Yeah. One of the things that I've always tried to do in my particular type of storytelling is take my story and how do I convey what I've gone through and what my community has gone through. I was born during a unique time in American history.

I came of age post-9-11 America, and the Patriot Act, which was a piece of legislation that allowed the government to spy legally on Muslim communities, became something that kind of raged through my community in Northern California, Sacramento, Lodi, Los Angeles, here in New York City, Chicago. And I tell the story of there were a lot of us kids that saw FBI agents that would hang out with us. And our parents had a different take on it. They'd be like, no, that's Javier. He wants to be a Muslim. I'm like, no, Javier is a cop. He's not into Islam. He wants to play basketball with us to entrap us.

And so I tell the story that, you know, is based on this thing that was happening to a lot of us. And us making fun of those guys. And me landing that joke with those agents was the first feeling of control and agency in my life. Oh, I can shoot spitballs from the back of the. class. And that feeling makes me feel in control. In a world where I feel like I have no control, I have control in this moment. I don't want to give away the joke, but it's such a, it's such a great moment. And you use it as a springboard to everything that comes after me. Because you found in that moment, you could find comedy in your pain. Yeah. You could make other people around you

laugh. You could diffuse a situation a little bit. Totally. Totally. And like I said, as you looked around at other cases in your part of the country and across the country. Yeah. It may have freed you from something that other people were really going through. Absolutely. That cost them decades. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, one of the things that I talk about is there were so many young kids that got

unfortunately entrapped in some of these situations. And I wanted to find a way to tell that story, tell their story, and have comedy be a way to convey that truth and reality that so many people went through, especially. especially in my community, you know? One of the other things that you maybe didn't run by your wife. In fact, I know you didn't run by your wife because you say so in the special is sort of the lead up to the famous Saudi episode of the Patriot Act, which is to say you went right at it.

Yeah. In fact, you went directly into the belly of the beast willingly. Why was that issue with the Saudis so important to you to get at, to go at, to ask hard questions about? You know, for Muslims around the world, we've had a unique relationship with Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is, they are the custodians of the holiest site for Muslims, which is Mecca, not Madison Square Garden. I know that's your Mecca. That's, yeah. But our Mecca is the Mecca. And it means a lot to us. It's where we make our pilgrimage. And you're required to, once in your life, to go to Mecca. At the same time,

there are many Muslims and people around the world that have issues with their human rights. rights violations. So there's this push and pull and this tug that we have with them. And I was uniquely positioned as a Muslim and as an American to talk about this. And I think every American has this unique relationship with the Saudis, especially every U.S. president, where they'll kind of denounce them, but then every couple years, every U.S. president will go sword dancing with the Saudis. Like it's Aladdin, you know. Gas prices will hit four or five dollars, and then it's time to get your Prince Ali Ababa on. It's happening right now.

It's happening right now. Literally right now. Yeah, so this isn't a new story. It's been going on for quite a bit of time. And again, to me, comedy is this unique thing where comedians are able to share their story and share their truth. I felt like in that moment I was uniquely positioned to talk about this in a way in which nobody else could talk about it in the late night comedy landscape. And I was like, oh, I have something here. Problem is, I think I took it a little bit too far.

I committed to the bit a little bit too much, and I don't think it was wise to bum rush the Saudi embassy in Washington, D.C. But hindsight is 2020. I didn't want to give that away. But when I say you went into the belly of the beast, you went into the belly of the beast. And you were confronted about it. We got your letter, they said, that you want to talk to the crown prince. Yes. Was that a terrifying moment for you?

It wasn't a terrifying moment until I found out, oh, Khashoggi was murdered, you know. And then it was through a series of events that I talk about in the show and even getting that really terrifying letter from I don't know who sent it that I realized, you know, comedians are oftentimes asked, hey, comedians should push the envelope. But sometimes the envelope pushes back. And there are consequences and repercussions for what you say. And so I had to reevaluate, especially because I got a wife, I got two kids. I got to determine what my line is. You know, comics were always supposed to push the line, cross the line. But for me, I had to figure out, hey, what's my line now that I have these other things that I deeply care about that are very important to me?

I thought that was the most touching part of the piece of the special, which is you're a truth teller, you go at people. Yeah. Comedians are supposed to be courageous and they are and you are. but there are other considerations at times and you have to sort of weigh those, don't you? Totally. I mean, when people are like, you're so courageous, I'm like, you know I'm 165 pounds wet. I'm barely filling up these mediums.

I'm not ready to die for these jokes. Like, I'll make it very clear to whoever's watching, I'm sorry, I don't want the smoke. Somebody's watching this right now on an elliptical at, you know, 24-hour fitness on mute, and they're just like, Why does Camille Nangiani have a take for him? I know the target demo of the Sunday sit-down conversation.

I'm not going to be facetious and assume everybody knows who I am, but the people that I have made fun of that do want to hurt me, I apologize. I swear to God. There's a reason why I was a speech and debate kid, and I didn't fight, okay? So we'll put your courage on the sliding scale. Comedy courage. Comedy courage. Right.

And there's only so much. Yeah. If someone bum rushes the stage, I will run. That's how courageously. We've established. I'll say the joke, but I will run. Then you'll halt the other way. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Hassan Minhajahs right after the break. Welcome back now more of my conversation with Hassan Minhash. Your family is at the center of the story you tell about yourself, your parents coming up. It's a great. Again, I just don't want to get everything away, but there's just a great photograph in your mother's home that makes me very happy next to the photograph of you and your beautiful wife. Yes. Someone she looks up to quite a bit. It appears with equal love. With equal reverence. In my mom's bedroom, there's a photo of me and being on our wedding day directly next to that photo.

Princess Die. Same size. Same size. Just directly. We're neck and neck. We're tied. We're tied for first place in her heart. Like she's a member of the family. She's a member of the family. She's been dead since 19. 97. I'm still alive. Still paying for the mortgage. Me and Princess die neck and neck. What do you? I mean, your parents weren't always, they didn't always see a future in comedy for you. Is that fair to say? Neither did I. So, but what do they think now that you've got Netflix specials and you've been so successful at it? Do they finally concede? Okay. I guess this is a career. Yeah, but there's also moments where, you know, I remember. I remember. remember they were at the taping of the special and they go, this is a lot. You know, why the screens and

it looks like you're in a skate park? What's happening right now? You know, so I think they're still, they're proud of me in so much as they see. I'll watch my parents watch the show and they don't even watch me on stage. They're looking at other people look at me. So that's the validation I think my parents have where they're like, oh, wow, like, this is working. Okay. There's clearly something happening right now. This is something after all. Yeah, yeah. But I get it. It's the same thing as if, you know, my son was like, Dad, I want to be a Twitch streamer. I'd be like, got it. How's that going to work? It's the same thing. That will be us, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure your kids are going to be like, Dad, are you going to enter the Matrix with us?

Yeah. Yeah. Come to the metaverse. Yeah. Well, but also your parents, you know, as immigrants from India, Yes. You come here with your dad for the first eight years. Your mom goes back to school. So there's no sense. There's no grounding in American pop culture. You said you didn't even watch TV when you were growing up. Not really.

Yeah. It was NBC, obviously. Sure, thank you. You don't have to pay for it. Exactly. CBS, NBC, ABC. Lock them in. Yeah, those are you.

During the dial. Yeah. So those were the channels we had at home. I mean, like literally could not watch The Simpsons because the kids talk back to their parents. Right. I'd be like, mom and dad, can I watch the Simpsons? They're like, no, Bard is rude to his parents. And I go, can I go on the internet?

They're like, of course. Like, do you know what's on there? That's the World Wide Web. You could learn on the internet. I'm just going to close the door and lock it. Is that okay? Yeah, right. I'm focusing right now.

What could go wrong? What could go wrong? So you had, but you really had no grounding in American popular culture, right? Yeah. The reference points. No reference points and no real, you know, American pop culture. I grew up in the 90s, early 2000s. Of course, it's important.

to me, but it doesn't have the same love and reverence in my family's home as, say, Bollywood. Right. So, like, if I told them I was going to go be a Bollywood actor, they'd be like, oh, oh, man, oh, man. And I get it. Again, I'm not here to say, like, mom and dad didn't get it. If I look at Rundvir Singh and I look at Ryan Gosling, one of them is objectively

hotter than the other. I'm telling you the truth, Ryan. Ryan Gosling looks like he's taken too much claritin. Like, he's always kind of sleepy. Every Bollywood actor is like six foot three. They have an eight pack. They can dance, sing, flowing hair. They do nine things extremely well.

Right. Our movie stars do a thing kind of good. Yeah. So that was my parents' point of reference. And you know what? Believe it or not, it was to my advantage. It let me kind of look at the world as an outsider. You know, so like I remember going to work one day and people were crying.

They're like, oh my God, David Bowie died. And I was like, the dude from Labyrinth. You're crying about the guy from Labyrinth. But it's that like IDGAF energy. Right. That allows you to be like, yeah, I'm just going to call it for what this is. Right, right. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Ryan Gosling is so hot. Why does he always look sleeping? though. Now let's slow down. He is hot. I mean, I think we should say that. You should stipulate. He's a different kind of hot. He's a Hollywood nine? He's a Bollywood three. Wow. That's tough. That is tough. I'm a Bollywood negative three. Gossling would be like a background actor. Totally. Is that what we're saying? Yeah. Heat audition. They'd be like, you can't really dance. He's like, what about Lala? And he's like, that's not. dancing. No. It's not real dancing.

I like the just totally like out of nowhere attack on Gosling. Yeah. It's a good position. Yeah, it's a good position. These are the third rail issues I'm going to dive into, really. But that's the thing. Like, I love that about comedy. I love that that the comedians now, you get to pick and choose, hey, what's your worldview and what do you believe in? And again, man, to me, comedy was one of those things where it really helped me embrace the cosmic

joke. Like, you live your life, you grow up, everybody you know and love dies, then they bury you, then they throw dirt on your face, then worms eat you, hopefully in that order. And if you can't find the humor in that, then you're not really a comedian, you're not a comic, you know, but comedians have always felt that kind of existential like angst. Isn't this weird? Yeah. Isn't this crazy? You and I had that at the time 100 dinner.

Yeah. That's where we met for the first time. And I remember going into that room and being like, oh, they're right. The Illuminati is real. People at home, they are right. The lizard people do run the world and they all hang out together. And you'll go to these events and they'll be like, here's Benjamin Netanyahu. Condoleezza Rice and Taylor Swift.

Yes. Literally, by the way. And that's literally what's going on. That's your table. That's your table. You know, and like the ghost of Winston Churchill sits down for dinner and eats the salmon. And then they'll have a couple of us tap dance for them. They'll be, oh, the weekend is going to perform now.

And, you know, Trevor Nowe's going to do seven minutes. Right, right. You know, and I remember being in that room. And I couldn't not think of jokes in that moment, you know? Well, that's, I'm glad you brought that up. So that was 2019, April of 19, I think. And we do a little thing at the Today Show set up at the end of the red carpet. We put the tucks on.

You guys parade through a couple minutes. And I remember Jane Goodall was ahead of me. Jane Goodall. And the Rock was behind you. That kind of says it all. Jane Goodall in the Rock. Yeah, totally. And it is that room.

But I remember even talking to you, you were sort of like, this is insane, right? Yeah. This is like, what is this group of people on the red carpet and going to have dinner? Yeah. And then famously, and you're in, this is in the special. as well. Yeah. Jared Kushner, the son-in-law of former President Trump, sits down at the table.

Yeah. What goes through your mind? Because that, obviously, you didn't prepare that. You didn't know he was going to be sitting there. Yeah. You see him. You think what. Yeah. And you say, I'm going for it. Yeah. Jokes are kind of like a puzzle. So when I'm sitting there, I go, oh, I know something the audience doesn't know.

So Lujane, who was a Saudi female activist, she was one of the time. 100 honorees as well. But she was in prison for driving in Saudi Arabia. She couldn't be there. Jared Kushner, who happens to be friends with the Crown Prince, is in the room. And I remember the opening statements. You know, I think it was like the editor of Time magazine being like the most powerful people in the world are here tonight so that we can all commiserate and talk to one another and change the world. And I go, huh, what if someone here was friends with the crown prince and could get one of the honorees out of prison? And my wife could kind of see my Adderall eyes putting together the math. And she was like, do not do this. Don't cross the line.

It's probably not cool to do that. And I did it anyways. I couldn't help it. Was it funny in the room? it bombed. Did I find it hilarious? Yes. Were the consequences of that and what it put my personal life through worth it, no.

And I think that's kind of one of the main takeaways of the show. Of if I'm going to be a comedian and give you all of me, then I got to tell you everything. And so that's kind of the ugly and fortunate truth of what was a friend. funny moment. Well, you can't resist. You're a comedian. Yeah. I've got something that's going to be good. I'm just going to do it. Yep. I know there might be consequences to it. Yeah. When you say the consequences weren't worth it. Yeah. What flowed from that? What happened after that night? Yeah. You know, later we received a package at our house. I didn't know who sent it. And, you know, it was filled with powder. And I got my kids with me. They know where I live.

This is not a wise thing to put your family through. You know, I can't make my pilgrimage. I can go to Madison Square Garden, but I can't go to the Mecca. These are all real things that have real day-to-day consequences on your life outside of making an episode of television that week. And I think as I've gotten older, you know, I'm 37 now, and I start to think about my life, even outside a show business. There's got to be more to just making content for the feed. and the people around me, i.e. my family, they matter more than even some of the stuff and the benefits that I get from show business. And you know this, man, you've been working in this business long enough. There's people that go on this ride and they lose everything.

And what I mean by that is like the real people that actually matter. Because in the end, those are the only people who are left. Yeah, those are the only people that are there. You have your show, it comes, it goes. You have your IG followers. They come, they go. But there's got to be something beyond that as well. And that's also a really, I thought, important piece of King's Jester, which is you kind of got, as a lot of people who got drunk on that, the likes.

Oh, yeah. And I'm going to say a thing because I know it's going to go viral. I'm going to do something because I'm going to get the likes. I want to check my phone. Oh, look how many likes I have now. Yeah. And you had to be kind of like smacked out of that state by your wife and by your family to say, no, no, no, us, not bad. Yeah. What are you doing?

Yeah. You know, and there is this kind of provocateur to timeline, to outrage, to clicks pipeline, and it rinse washes and repeats. And the people that master that are some of the most famous people in popular culture. And once you get a taste of it of like, I know the exact formula of what it takes. to get you to click, which then gives me clout, which then gives me coverage, which then gives me fame, oh, I can keep doing this. Now double up, quadruple up, quintuple up, you can just keep going down that cycle. And one of the things that I've had to think about is, okay, if you're going to participate in that game,

you want to do it and be able to look back on it with the sense of pride and be like, I did the right thing. I said the right thing. Funny enough, that was the same thing I put myself through with the White House Correspondence Dinner. And I give Prashant a lot of credit. There were some jokes that I had that were absolutely insane that I could have said about the president. I remember there was an empty chair where the president's supposed to sit.

And there were some insane jokes that I was working out at the comedy cellar. And I remember PV looked at the sheet and he goes, scratch that, scratch that, scratch that. I'm like, come on, man. It's one of the biggest stages in the world. And he goes, sobriety of mourning. Everybody's laughing at 11 o'clock at night here on McDougal Street, have the sobriety of mourning. This thing goes live.

They're going to talk about it the next day. Do you stand by all those statements about what you're saying about the president or his children? Do you stand by it? Would you stand by it five years from now? 10 years from now? And I give them a lot of credit because I stand by all the jokes I said. even the Steve Bannon Nazi joke. And I still think they hold the test of time.

But it was my close friend and brother and co-writer that allowed me to see that, you know. Is that hard, though, not to tell those jokes? Because you know, I've got something that may be, well, bomb in this room. It'll make my friends laugh. Make people in comedy laugh. Yeah. Make people at home laugh. Is it hard to think about that long horizon of time when you know you could get something in the moment?

Sure, sure. But it's also, do you believe, do you really, like, capital B, believe what you're saying? If you believe it, then say it. And to me, one of the things I learned at The Daily Show from John, from Trevor, even at my show, is there's different tiers of types of jokes. It's almost like liquor, even though I don't drink. Mom and Dad, I don't drink. On the record. I just want to say that on NBC. That and Gosling's not hot. Go ahead. Yeah, I stand tent toes down on that. There's top shelf liquor and then there's kind of like that piss beer that you would have in college. Jokes are like that too. There's jokes that you use PVC, those words. Then there's jokes where you go, oh, wow, not only is that clever, it's also clean. It also is opening up my mind and making me see the world in a different way.

There's different tiers of jokes. I'm aspiring for those that make you laugh and make you feel something. That's the type of jokes and material that I want to tell. It's the type of stuff I want to make. Hopefully the King's Jester is that. That is really the goal I had for the project. Stick around for more of my conversation with Hassan Minhash right after a quick break. Welcome back now to the rest of my conversation with Hassan Minhash.

You were just saying that the Correspondence Center is one of the best rooms in comedy. Best gig in comedy. Why do you say that? The best gig in comedy. The Oscars is, you know, you're dealing with the Gosslings, humorless people. You're, I stand by this. We need to get to the bottom of your beef with Gosselin. There's something going on here.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like Skip Bayliss, you know how when he's on TV and he goes, overrated. About LeBron? I'm that with Gosling. I'm just like, overrated. That's what you said you want to be known as, the Skip Baylis of comedy. It's a skit bailess of comedy. It talks a lot of shit.

Sometimes he's right. He's right just enough. Correspondency. Yes. Okay. Oscars, you're roasting celebrities, humorless, rich people. The correspondence center, you're actually making fun and poking at some of the most powerful people in the world. And everyone around the world is watching.

Stand up and jazz are two distinct American art forms. And I think a lot of times Americans don't understand how bad. powerful and amazing it is that these two art forms came from America. There are not a lot of countries around the world where the sitting president or head of state would sit there and be roasted and lambasted by a civilian. They wouldn't allow it. You think King Charles would allow, you know what I mean? James Gordon to roast them.

It's not happening. Even there's current modern, you know, first world democracies where Merkel's not going to sit down and get roasted. It's just not going to happen. So the fact that that is a uniquely American institution that's viewed around the world, it is a symbol and a signal to people around the world that, hey, nobody is above the reach of the First Amendment. There's something powerful in that. And for me, as the son of Indian American immigrants, they would have never imagined that their son, this skinny little Daisy kid, would be making fun of some of the most powerful people in the world. That, to me, is like something that makes me so proud to be an American.

I was born and raised in this country that lets me do that. It's pretty cool. That's well said. You've convinced me it's a good gig. Yeah. It's amazing. And you know what? You know what?

I bet even the Fox News table that I made fun would be like, I like that. For sure. I like that guy. Absolutely. I guarantee you. He loves this country. Yes, that's it. You pleased everybody.

Yeah. So you were just saying your parents, you know, they're proud to have raised you in a country where you can do that. Yeah. But as you've also said, comedy, not on the board. Go to meds. school, do something like that. I think your dad's rule was what, no friends, no girlfriends. No fun, no friends.

Yeah. No girlfriends? No girlfriends. Right. So you go and start doing a little stand-up while you're in college in San Francisco. You get a taste for it. Ooh, I like this. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And what happens from there? Do you decide at that point, I think this could be a career or is it just playful at that time? I think it was right after I got fired from Office Max. Then I go, yeah. This isn't for me. I remember Gary, my manager, called me in.

And you know it's always bad when they go, Haasman, man, Hodge, come to the back, please. Hossom man, I'm going to the back. You're like, oh, I'm going to come to the back. That's never good. Nothing good from coming to the back or, hey, can we chat? I hate that. That's for corporate, people that are in corporate America.

Hey, can we chat? Let's just do this right now. I just want witnesses. Can I grab you for a minute? Oh, this is not anymore. Yeah. We're going a different direction. So Gary goes, I don't think you were meant to sell printers.

I go, Gary, I don't think so either. It just feels like you always want to be somewhere else. And I go, I do want to be other places, Gary. And he goes, really, where is that? And I go, I want to be at the punchline this weekend. And he goes, I really, I never saw you as funny. And I was like, well, because I don't care here. So, yeah, that was the third job I got fired from, Del Taco, Safeway, Office Max.

Really? Yeah. So, yeah, none of it was for me. Fast food wasn't for me. Groceries, bagging groceries wasn't for me, and selling printers wasn't for me. So I failed at pretty much everything else. This was the last resort, getting up on a stage of the life. Yeah, and if you think about it, we kind of are the bottom rung entertainers.

We're barely above magicians and clowns. Comics are here. You know what? If all the Sunday sit downs, you'd love to sit down with a musician and then an actor. And then you're like, all right, well. It's like a gosling, let's say. Hypothetically. Just an A-lister like gosl.

A very handsome A-lister like Gossling. Yeah, a normal-looking guy like Gossling. This whole interview is going to be about gosling. Let's do it. So you get the bug for it. You love to do it. What's the first break? Is it all the way to the Daily Show?

Yeah. The first real break wasn't my Pizza Hut commercial or being on... I'm good in that, though. Season 6 of Phala. You're talking about the Pizza Hut. Pizza's a commercial. Yeah. You get nine in a box for just ten bucks.

Yes. Ten bucks. You're still getting checks for that. Still getting checks. But it really was the daily show. John's seeing my tape. And it really was a long journey. Ten years, one month, nine days.

And he sees that tape and he changes my life. And I can't tell you how good health insurance feels. It feels so good. So you're ten years of time. Yeah. Looking at that. Maybe someday, maybe someday. Elsat score had expired.

So law school also was gone. Office Max and law school. Both wiped away. Yeah, yeah. That had to be a surreal moment for someone like John Stewart, who you looked up to, that style of comedy, sort of rendering the news every day in a smart way to have him sort of tap you on the shoulder and say, yeah, you're one of us. We like what you do.

It was really beautiful. And because a lot of times you have to choose between is what I'm doing funny, are meaningful. And the Daily Show is one of those institutions that is both. And for it to be this institution that I get to be a part of, it's like SNL. It's one of the oldest American comedy institutions that's been around for now over 20 plus years. And to be a part of that and join the legacy of all those guys that came before me, Correll, Helms, Colbert, Oliver, Sam, like, man, it was just surreal. It was a dream come true. I got, I made it to the NBA. Yeah. You made it to your mecca. Yeah, I really did. I really did. I really did. And so, you know, 515's, you know, West 52nd Street. That's really where my life changed and everything. Even this theater. It came from there. I had the ability to finance other things that I was able to do. And John is such a great guy where he never felt like he owned you. He wanted you to go out and be great. And so I'm really grateful to him.

He let me, you know, let his correspondent go do theater. It paid off. It paid off. Yeah. And if you think about the run you went on after that, starting with this show, you mentioned the special, the White House correspondent's center. My show, Patriot Act, and, you know, and the King's Jester, all of it came from that. It all flowed from that opportunity. And so the Patriot Act, which was six seasons, something, right?

The Saudi episode, we talked about famous. But, man, your approach to that show, which is not just getting up telling a few funny jokes in front of a curtain and talking to a celebrity and do whatever else you do on a late night show. Yeah. This was a lift. Yeah. My goal really was if a high school student has an assignment, can he plagiarize off the show? That was the journalistic integrity that I wanted the show to have. And I can't tell you how many 17-year-olds were like, dude, I had to do a thing on insulin pricing.

I just, I just copied the transcription of the show. My teacher said it was like funny and meaningful, cutting yet not cruel. And they didn't watch your show. So they didn't know was plagiarized. They didn't know. Perfect. They didn't know. So I was like, you know, I'm a man of the people.

But that's the beauty of the show. And you could say about John Oliver's show too, which is like you take something well researched that might seem sort of off the board to other people. Yeah. And you just draw them in 30 minutes or an hour or whatever. it is. So how did you pick those topics? Because it doesn't seem to me like insulin pricing. You work like going for the flash, you know, the big sexy topic. Yeah, yeah. But an important one every time. Who wants to talk for 25 minutes about fentanyl? You're like, ugh. Right, right. Can't you do a show about

cake? But you found that meaningful thing combined with being funny. Yeah. And for me, one of the things I always thought about was, again, there's different types of comedy and levels to it. But I wanted people to laugh, be entertained, but leave the episode being like, wow, I never saw the world that way. Or thank you for breaking down this thing that's been inside of me for years. I've always want to describe what Supreme is to my parents. Here's a 25-minute episode breaking down what Supreme is or why insulin prices are so high in the United States or student loan debt and why it's so bad here in the United States. Those were things that I just wanted people to feel like you could access it at any point, dive in, and 24, 25 minutes later, you'd be like,

okay, I have a pretty good understanding of what this is and what the problem is. And made it accessible to people. Yeah, totally. And, you know, my goal was let it play on Netflix and then also steal it and put it on YouTube. So, right. People don't have to pay for Netflix. There you go. Again, I'm a man of the people.

There you go. Yeah. There you go. Robin Hood. You mentioned Trevor Noah. He just announced he's leaving the Daily Show. Yes. It's such an interesting time.

Are you sending me up right now? No, no, no, no, no, I wouldn't do it. Because I've been getting the DMs. If you want to do it, you can do it. But it is such an interesting time in late night comedy, the way we knew late night comedy growing up. The model is changing. You said at the top of this, it's a golden age for comedy.

And it is in many ways. But on the other end of that, that late night thing, James Corden is leaving. We've had this kind of the door is open. Yeah. People are going out. What do you think is happening in late night right now that's changing? I think what's happening is there's just a division between scripted and non-scripted. And I think for scripted content, you know, that's going to streaming.

And I think non-scripted is just personality-driven content, and that goes to social. You know, there's some people watching this on mute right now, again, at 24-hour fitness. But then hopefully this goes on YouTube. And a lot of people are able to actually hear what we have to say. Right. Right. That'd be nice. Yeah, yeah. They're not just doing deadless. being like, what are William? Who are these guys?

What are they doing right now? That all is just on the internet. And personality-driven content is bigger than it's ever been. And there's so many people from the Trevor Noah's to the Fallons to Logan Paul to Twitch streamers that are huge, huge celebrities because of that. So those cultural icons still exist. They're just in a new place. They don't happen to be in your living room on TV.

They're on your phone. And you can access them anytime. So I still think there is a ton of power in the individual person talking to you. I mean, there's so many examples of that right now that have made huge careers to the hundreds of millions of dollars because of that. You clearly understand it very well. So it raises the question, what do you see for yourself? Like, where do you fit in? You're going to do the Netflix specials.

Yeah. You're going to do your things. thing. But is there like another move as you watch the world stream and go on to social media? Yeah. I got some plans. Yeah? Okay. Break them right here. The DMs are open and I got some plans. Let's put it that way. So you are going to host the Daily Show. Hey, right. That's really interesting that we're talking about this on CBS that is not owned by Paramount CBS Viacom. I love NBC. I'll tell you that. I love NBC right now. Oh, you do? It was because we're on NBC right now. Oh, just because of that. That's just a pure pandering.

Yeah, just a pure pander. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't be bought. There's no way I can be bought. I just won't let everyone know that I can't be bought. No, no, he's a man of integrity. Yeah, and I was texting people that on my Samsung Galaxy Z-4-3 by Verizon 5G, the fastest 5G that's available right now. I have standards.

I'm not going to just be bought. See how he holds for the out-kew so we can just really nail that line? That'll be the end of the piece. That's the end of the piece? Yeah. Just a plug for Samsung. That's it. Cool.

Well, the special is great, man. It's so fun to talk to you and go Nix. I mean, maybe. Maybe. With a question mark at the end. You know this is the 50th anniversary of the last time they won the title? How can that be? 72, right?

Yeah, 72, 73 seasons. Phil Jackson was on that team, right? Or no? Phil Jackson, like Bill Bradley, Willis Reed, Clyde Frazier. Yeah. 50 years, man. Yeah.

We're due. Yeah, they are. That was fun. Thank you so much. Thank you, man. Appreciate that. My big thanks again to Hassan for a great conversation. You can check out Hassan Minhaj, the King's Jester.

streaming now on Netflix. My thanks to all of you for listening again this week. If you want to hear more of our conversations with my guests every week, be sure to click follow so you never miss an episode. And of course, don't forget to tune in to Sunday today every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit Down podcast.