Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Henry Winkler

Episode Date: November 12, 2023

On this week's episode, Willie sits down with the utterly delightful Henry Winkler. They talk about his new memoir including fifty years of life as "The Fonz", that Emmy-winning role in "Barry", and finally finding himself, he says, just a few years ago.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sitdown podcast. My thanks as always for clicking and listening along. Boy, do I have a good one dialed up for you this week with the great Henry Winkler. I won't bore you with the full biography. You know Henry Winkler. You know he played the Fonz for 11 seasons from 1974 to 1984. You know he won an Emmy Award for his performance on Barry more recently. You know he was great as Attorney Barry Zuckerhorn. on arrested development, so much to his life, so much to his career, all these children's books he's written for the last 25 years or so that it becomes so popular. But honestly, just a warm, decent man is Henry Winkler. And all I will say, before we get to the conversation, is to set up the atmosphere because we sat down at Katz's Deli, the world famous Katz's Deli in New York City, been around since 1888. It is an institution in New York City where Henry grew up on the upper west side of Manhattan. So now he's been living in L.A. for about 50 years since he got the job on Happy Days.

Every time he comes back to New York, he's got to go get the pastrami sandwich at Katz's Deli. So he said, let's do the interview at Katz's. Well, we didn't clear the place out. We're just sitting in the middle of Katz's deli eating our lunch. So you might hear some strange noises. Yeah, there's a lot of background noise, packed restaurant. But there's some eating. He had the pastrami stacked real high on rye. I went with the fresh carved turkey on rye. We had a little mustard in there. Man, some pickles. So there's a lot going on here. I also want to point out that his family was literally at the next table. His wonderful wife, Stacey, his son, his beautiful granddaughter, two years old. It was just a great day with Henry Winkler. I think you'll enjoy spending this time with Henry as much as I did as we got together to talk about his new memoir, Being Henry, the Fonz and beyond.

So sit back, relax, and enjoy. Henry Winkler, right now on the Sunday Sit Down podcast. So I think we're just going to eat Henry, right? Yeah, I'm with you. Let's take a few bites, and I'll try not to ask you anything while here. So the bread is so fresh. I was just going to say that. This is not out of the bag.

Mmm. Oh, come on. Hmm. Wow. this is New York right here right now and what is your history with cats you grew up uptown

but didn't get down here until later I did not get down here and then when I started coming here to do press first for happy days it has always been on my mind to be in Kansas and it is now a tradition

Stacy and I come here at least once a trip over the last 40 years. And this is the sandwich every time? This is it. I keep thinking maybe I should get healthier. Maybe I should go with the turkey, and I can't. This is not the time for healthier.

This is the time for what you want. On your pilgrimage to Cathis. Now I'm going on you. Have you been here before? I have been here, but not in many years. That's why I was glad you chose this location. I was just saying, too, at the counter there, It feels like we can be sitting here in

1975, just the decor and the feel and the energy. This is all New York. Nothing has changed. It really is. It really is. And when you walk through the village and the streets are cobblestone and some of them doesn't end,

you really get a visceral reaction of what it must have been. You know? You've lived in L.A., of course, for many, many years. But you're a New Yorker. You are a New Yorker. So when you come back here, it feels like home?

Leaving the airport. Driving over the bridge. Seeing the skyline, my blood starts to rush. My heart is here. My body is there. And it never dawned on me that I would just live there for 50 years.

years. Right. Right. Well, that's the funny thing is, right, you went out there 50 years ago, you know, right now? For a month. Kind of. We're supposed to be for a month. September 18th. Right. And you got, you land one gig on Mary Tyler Moore. And then, was it not 50 years ago this week? You got the job on happy days. I don't know that. I think it is. The happy days. On my birthday, October 30th. Right. They called me and said, would you like to play this role?

And I never went home. Amazing. That's incredible. I do not ever take that for granted. I mentioned you grew uptown, up on 78 between Broadway and Amsterdam, upper west side. Your parents came here,

fleeing the Nazis. Yes. They did What was the childhood in New York City like in those days? You learned your independence very quickly You got to move around Learn how to take the subway Learn how to take the bus

In L.A. You are so grounded You are so like On an island unless somebody drives And then until you know people who drive It is your parents It is your I don't know you know, friend somebody to come pick you up. You know, here you can just jump on that subway.

We still take the subway to the theater because otherwise you're in traffic for, you know. See, that's how I know you're a real New Yorker. It's not about an experience. It's about, no, that's the fastest way to get where you're going. I'm going to sit in a car out here all afternoon. That's why I take the subway. Get where I'm going.

I would be insane if I missed the curtain going. I have a tick where I cannot be late. When I was leaving my apartment, even in high school, and I forgot something inside, I could not go back and get it. I had to keep the forward motion. The elevator was coming. I'll just do without it. There is an element of that here, isn't there? Sort of knowing the rhythm of where you're going and how long it's going to take.

That is the rhythm, and you have to move. Right. It's a rhythm of movement. Yes. in L.A. It is a rhythm of sitting in traffic. Going for dinner at 7 o'clock, you've got to take a snack.

Or you will, you know, you'll just disintegrate in your car on the way. Is it just as you remembered it? Yeah. I didn't order lean. I went for the juicy. Yeah, you were pretty specific about that.

So you're a kid on 78th Street Yes. Up on the 10th floor in that apartment building. Dreaming about being here at this table. Dreaming that am I ever going to make a living being an actor? But where did even the idea for becoming an actor come from? Because it's certainly not from your parents. I have no idea.

I was always a performer. My parents had a party. I would put on my mother's bass. robe I would put on, uh, rouge, I would come out, I would tell something that I thought was like hysterically funny. Then I would say directed by Henry, produced by Henry, written by Henry, costume by Henry, and disappear. So how did you cultivate that in a house where there was no background for entertainment or acting or anything like that? The expectation was you were going to take on the family business and that was going to be that.

I have now learned your job on the earth is to meet your destiny. And I'm talking about that, no matter how difficult it is, if you know what you want without ambivalence, you just keep going. You get knocked down, you come right back to center, and you just keep going. The thing that will kill you is a very bad attitude and negativity. I am great.

I am most talented at trying to talk my way out of something. No, you can't do that. No, you're not smart enough. No, you're not good enough. No, no, no. And I learn to beat the system by not putting a period

on the end of a negative song. Don't. If you do, it grows and you are You sink into the plaster, the cement. But how did you avoid feeling like you were going to sink into the cement with parents who were not supportive of what you wanted to be? I felt like I was going to sink into the cement and I didn't want to.

So my second cornerstone is tenacity. Because if you listen, you're left holding the bag. parents usually don't outlive their child. And I know for sure they're not looking down from heaven going, wow, you are so great. You're doing what we wanted you to do. You're unhappy. But hey, I don't think they're doing that. So then you're left holding the bag.

And I didn't want to be that. I did not want to be that. Because buying and selling wood, hey, it worked for my father. You know, it was great. Somebody has to sell mahogany. Not me. But it sounds reading your book. It sounds like, it's not that they,

it's not just that they didn't support what you wanted to do, is that they sort of looked down on it in some way. They thought, why would you go and chase this when you could have all this? Well, they had this art. They had the finesse of looking down on everything. They were great at looking down on everything. I understand. No one knew dyslexia. I understand. I admire. They came from another country,

learned another language, opened the business that he knew, buying and selling wood. Here's what I don't buy and that I can't get over. A child is not an extension of their parents. A child comes full-blown who they are. You look at the child, even if you do not know what the condition is. Even if there is nothing written about that condition, you know something is not right. It is my job to figure out how to let that child fly to the sky. But your parents' reaction was not that there's something wrong here that we need to help with. No, I was not good enough. Right.

I was not doing enough. You know, I mean, I told the story, but the microcosm is when they went out, I heated up a TV dinner. Peeled back the tin foil, had the bubbling brown beddy, right? A little extra butter on the mashed potato. I could not watch TV. My TV had tubes. They came home. They would feel the top of the television.

which I think is crazy in the first place, but they would do that. And if I did not turn it off at the right time, I would be grounded for the next six weeks. People don't realize back in those days, the TV would stay hot for an hour after you watch TV so they could tell. And meanwhile, you were watching the shows and seeing the stars that would inspire you to be who you are. I want to be there. Right. Yeah.

I made a promise that I would not be my parents when I had children. Well, I'm watching you today, and that's very clear that you are not fat. Because I really, I've said this before, but all you have to do was just listen to your child. You're going to a meeting. You have to be on air. You're late. Your child says, Dad.

I like green. I am so happy that you told me that. We're going to talk about that as soon as we get home, but I have to go. You have waited now 45 seconds. 45 seconds is not going to make a much difference in you're already being a little late. Right. That jargon. We're going to talk about green.

Yeah. I have a lot to say about green. I like to wear green. I'm not kidding. Yeah. That 45 seconds will make a difference in the way that that child grows up or just folds in on himself or herself. I find that these days, too, with the phone.

I find that exactly what you're talking about now. The modern example is the phone, which is, a kid walks in the room, you're on the phone. Look up immediately. You're in the room. What is it? What do you want to talk about? Even if you, exactly like you say, you know what, I've got to respond to this email.

Look with the child. Look at the scene. The child is seeing. Oh, I'm more important than the phone. Yeah. Oh, you're paying attention to me. It is that simple. Oh, you're paying attention.

It is so powerful. I can't even tell you. It is like a thunderbolt from the sky, in my opinion. I agree. I totally agree. Was it difficult at all, Henry, to write through? this way in this memoir that so many people are going to read and are already reading. No.

About your parents? No. No. No. There's a person or two that I mentioned in the book by name. And I honestly, you're God, keep thinking that his family is coming after me. But it's the truth. I did not feel my wife said.

I mean, if you think that I wrote about my parents in the book, my wife said, oh, no, no, no, no. You have to pull back on that. Oh, did she? Oh, you have to. Oh, no, no, no. She was like my secret weapon, my editor. She said too much. Too much.

Yeah. My father died. We were in California. He's here. Died here. My wife said, well, get packed. We have to go. I said, where we're going?

She said, your father? died, we have to go to the funeral. I said, we actually don't. She said, oh, yes, we do. We're going. I literally thought that it was mandatory for me to fly to his funeral. Wow. Now, shocked that that was the truth, but that was the truth. And that comes from the childhood again. Oh, without a doubt. Yeah. Without a doubt. No hyperbole. Imagine that the napkin is little me. I was so confused and a browbeat that I covered over with cement. Now about nine years ago, I met a talking doctor.

And only then did I start to break... break chunks of this thick cement. You know how like little seedlings come through the sidewalk, finding its way through the cement to the sun? That's what's happening. I am on my way to being who I am, as opposed to having lived who I thought I should be. Wow.

And that didn't start until you were 70 years old or something, right? I say, I am so angry that it is taking me so long. I have wasted so much time. Because being who you are is like freeing. It is, it's like, it's really, it is the wind that allows you to fly. So if I was sitting with you 10 years ago at this table, different guy across from me. I would be, I would be closed.

I would double think what I'm going to say to make me look a certain way. It was like I was in an oil can. You know, one of those big, that they play down in the Caribbean. Sautered clothes. Praying that there is no leak that can expose. me coming out of those sodders.

Smash that fucking solder with everything I'm wondering. It's a gusher now. It's all coming out. Oh, man. And I was afraid, are people going to, you know, still accept me? Are they going to say, oh, well, abandon me? Not true. They don't do that. I think it's great that you're talking about this, and I think important even for people watching

to explain what changed. What did the therapist say to you or bring out of you that allowed for this transformation? Because I think all of us have that in some way. I asked her one question. Sat down, first time. Hey, how are you? Henry, you know?

I'm here. Need help. So, have any children? And she said, how is that going to help you? And I said, oh, okay, I'm never asking another question again. Okay, hello. And she forced me to answer the question that I was asking.

Nine years later, I did find out I don't think she likes peanut butter. You got something out of her. Hello. Oh, that's amazing. Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Henry Winkler right after the break. Welcome back now more of my conversation with Henry Winkler. Just to go back, I'm curious,

now you've described what it was like in that apartment with your parents. And acting is like this life raft for you. It is a life raft, but also it is so frowned upon. Right. My father was truly insulted and angry that I was not going to be Winkler and Sons. Without even having a choice,

without even asking me, what do you want? Waui Zowie. That was his dream. That was his dream to be an extension of who he is. And that is impossible. He spoke 11 languages

I had trouble with English. When I read a book, I read the cover. End of story. Not another sentence. You know, I tell this story before that I would take water and drip it over the pages, the outside, you know, pages. Then let it dry over the weekend. Willie, it looked like I beat that book up by the time I got to school.

Now, other kids, they highlighted, they wrote in the margins. What were they writing? I all I could they were writing similes I to this day don't have the slightest

idea what a simile is they were writing I wanted to but I you know and yet you made it through class you made it through school

nobody had any idea what just Lexia was or did not or they didn't think about it right so then when did Henry did when did you start acting in a way where it turned you on

you were on a stage You weren't just putting on shows at the apartment for your parents and their friends, but you actually had a chance to go do it. So in high school, sorry. I wasn't allowed to be in the play because I was in the bottom 3% academically, not only in the school in America. I did a musical in my 11th grade, and it was my music teacher, Mr. Rock,

who said one sentence to me. Winkler, if you ever do get out of here, you're going to be great. It is so easy to be positive as it is to Winkler, you are shocking. You're an embarrassment. I asked you to do this. You couldn't even do the simplest of assignments. You know? I couldn't.

I'm in cable. I can't spell to this day. The word schedule is over my comparison. computer because I use it so often, I cannot sound it out. And that moment, which may have felt small to him, was rocket fuel for you. Rocket fuel. Yeah. I mean, I'm telling you, it ignited me.

I still have it in my heart. That one sentence. And you take it with you to college, you take to Emerson, then you take it to Yale. I mean, you're really doing it. Yale was like, do I have the nerve? I gotta apply. I gotta try. I get in. I'm one of 25. 11 finished. I'm one of three that's asked into the professional company. I'm making $125 a week. I'm on my way. Now, a big lesson there. David Spielberg is playing the king in the Buckeye. I am one of the sultan. I'm chewing gum. He walks by, he stops the procession in rehearsal, spins around, and yells at me like the king.

When I am in your presence, when I walk by, you do not chew gum. In the presence of the king, I swallowed the gun. Another professional who is also a teacher, her first name Elizabeth, She said, if you don't stop kidding around, I'm going to knock your teeth out. I thought I was being adorable. I thought I was so charming. Right. I was irrefitting.

I learned a big lesson. I went, whitch. Right. Professionalism. And I have never looked back. So we talked about you going out and saying, 73 to LA. Is that right out of Yale?

No, no, no, no. There's time. I'm in New York? Right, there's Broadway. New York opens and closes in like one night. Right. So many empty chairs that I literally put my coat over them so I, they didn't seem that empty. Oh, wow.

So the dream is not quite happening yet. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Right. Because I'm working. I'm moving. I'm in those plays. Yep.

I'm working in front of the camera. I'm learning what that's like, how to be natural. And I'm still under the guilt of the drama school. would train for the theater. And I feel like I'm eating pork. And I belong to a kosher family. And you were advised were you not

to go to L.A. at first. The man John Kimball, who ran my agent's office, who was out in L.A. at that time, Joan Scott, opening her own satellite office in L.A. said if you want to be known to America, go to California. If you want to be known to New York, stay here.

I went to California for one month. I got the Fonz. And the dean of my drama school at that time said, not only do I not applaud Winkler's recent success, I'm not sure he did the right thing. And then asked me for a donation for his new theater. And I don't know where I'm. when? Really? I looked everywhere. I couldn't find my checkbook. It was not between the cushions.

I found change. I don't know where it was. That's a bold move to rip you and then ask for a check. Well, there is that tension, isn't there? But don't you think that's gone away for the most part? What? Theater actors doing TV, the quality is something. Movie actors doing television. Oh, my gosh. God, when you were in a movie, you did not do television. Right. Oh, no, no. And you only did commercials in Japan.

Right. Or no one would see it here. Get the check in Japan. Absolutely. Now it is all melding together. It's like the Europeans. You're an actor? You go to work.

You don't all of a sudden make delineation. Right. You know, and to me it was an incredible thing because, look, I did them. I just did one for eye care. I just did one for it to make people go to the eye doctor. Because I saw my father-in-law have aging macular degeneration. And I saw it destroyed him. It destroyed him.

He was a big man. mustache, handsome, tweeting. Very tweety. Saddle shoes, you know? Sure. Wow. Had to close his dentistry practice. He was my dentist. And I thought, when I was approached,

and I said, yeah, I understand what aging macular degeneration. And then it becomes geographic atrophy. So I just told people to go to GA won't wait.com. And a lot of people are called, Dick Van Dyke called me. Really? You saw the ad? I saw the ad. I think I have it. And you tell me more. Honest to God. I went, okay. Are you carrying your brush now?

Are you, are you carrying your chimney sweet brush right now? Burt. Oh, that's very funny. So we got to talk about the happy days. condition. Okay. Going. It's Gary Marshall. There's the gang. What was that room like? Was it intimidating? Were you aware of how

big the part could be? How big the show was going to be? No. No. Yes. I'll go backwards. Intimidating? I was intimidated by dust. I saw a dust bunny and I apologized and

walked around it. Did I know what it was? I had Six Lines. Yeah. I'm still under the spell of the Yale Drama School. I said to my agent, I don't know, do I want to go and do a series? She said, will you just shut up and go and meet to people at Paramount? I said, of course, I would do that.

I walked in a lot of people. And this woman, Millie, the head of casting at Paramount, sitting behind this very imperious desk. I don't know what happened. I mean, I've told this story now for a long time. I've learned to improvise because I can't read off the page for years auditioning. Pasquois, he said, are you ready? I said, do not talk to me that way. And do not look me in the eye, all right?

I mean, who do you think you are? You took a step forward, take a step back. I am now, I am now outrageous. I am now just improvising all over the place. I haven't even gotten to the six lines yet. And then I threw the script up in the air and I sauntered out of that room. They called me on my birthday, October 30th. 1973, said, would you, Tom Miller called you.

He was the emotional component. He said, you want to play this role? See, I'm going to think about it. Yes, I would. And that's 50 years ago this week as we sit here. Isn't that incredible? Amazing. Fifty years. First of all, I love those people.

Gary Marshall was my mentor. He taught me how to be an executive producer. He taught me how to be on a set. Ron Howard. He came like my brother. I just saw Donnie Most. You know, I have a children's book with Lynn Oliver, the Detective Duff. We were just in Boulder, Colorado with it.

Donnie lives there now. Anson ran for mayor of Ohio and lost by 42 votes. He believes it's rigged. Bonn and his wife, his daughter, who is our godchild, their children. I'm doing the Broadway play called the... dinner party written by Neil Sondry with John Witter. My goddaughter, Bryce, is here going to school at NYU. I take her to lunch.

She tells me, there's a guy in my class. I love him. I'm eye. He's so handsome. How are we going to get him to pay attention to me? I said, Bryce, just be your by himself. He couldn't take his eyes off. He would be there in a minute like a map.

He's sitting in our table, married to Bryce, all these years later. Wow. And that was in the year 2000, 23 years ago. Her two children, Zoe, also a red hen, her three children, her husband, 50 years of history at our dining room table. It was palpit. I'm telling you, the pasta and pink sauce vibrated onward. on the tape on the dish.

It's true. It was amazing. Well, you guys had something so special and you were in this sort of bubble together. Gary Marshall and Jerry Paris built the bubble.

No bad behavior. We played baseball together. I learned how to play softball. When we worked, there was nothing but the work. We made that show funny. for Friday night shooting. And if you were out of line,

I told this story before, Gary Marshall, I had made a deal $1,000 to go to Little Rock, Arkansas, my first appearance off the show. I'm taking a plane after we shoot Friday night. Gary Marshall is introducing the guest cast. And also, you got me. Mark here, he was very good. I liked him in the audition.

He played Eugene. He nodded. Put the microphone down when he was finished. I think I'm going to take these used napkins and throw him out. I'm just tired of holding that. He puts the microphone down, comes over. Now this is the gentlest, funniest malapropism fellow you've ever met in your life. Grab me by my shirt.

Put me against the wall, he said, don't ever. Interrupt me again when I am introducing the guest cast. They have every right to be introduced like you. Gary, I'm sitting in this chair now. I'm not saying another word. Call me when you need me. Any time I ever saw the gorilla come out of it. That set the tone.

That wasn't going to happen again. Ron, I was angry with the writers. I was hitting my script. Ten years younger than I am. You know, the writers are working as hard as they can. I wouldn't hit my script. I will never hit my script as long as I live, Ron. All those lessons about behavior, because being on a set is not just shooting the show,

rehearsing the show. It is how you are. It's one of the few things I got from my father, the attitude makes the music. La de la te le tonne of music. That's the only line I know in French, and I don't even know if it's correct. Sounded good. Thank you. So the bubble has been formed, and you guys have a little protection in there, but the show is so big,

and particularly your character is so big, but your life has changed very, very quickly. You're going from zero to 100. Right. What was that like for you on a personal level? I protected myself by staying in my apartment when we weren't shooting. I stayed in my little apartment around the corner from Schwab, where all the stars were discovered. I had a tuna fish sandwich, two boxes of Alme Dine wine,

rosé and white for guests because I don't drink, and Ambrosia salad. And I rented a record player and a television, and I played Dan Fogelberg. And I read every letter that was sent to me. Oh, wow. Because it was so scary outside. Yeah. So I stayed in another bubble.

And didn't participate in any of that lifestyle out there. No, I was invited for $10,000 to go on. a variety show and teach the host how to be the farms. And it dawned on me, that's like a magician teaching somebody the trick. And even if there's no trick, if I talk it, if I say it out loud, I take all the magic and just throw it like I did my knacket. So I never did. I never did that.

I'm watching you just operate in a room like this, which I imagine is every public moment of your life, and watching you embrace all of this. Watch you embrace when coming up, the Fonz, hey! Were you always that way about the Fonz, or was there a time where you tried to get away from him so you could be something else? I saw it, I could beat the system. I saw it, I could beat. If I was conscientious and was not the Fonz off screen, I thought, I'm going to beat being tightcast.

And so the lesson is you don't beat the system. You work with the system. And you are patient with the system. And eventually you get here to have a sandwich with you. It was a gift to be the Fonz. It was a gift. Oh, my God. I traveled.

I was respectful to Native Americans on one episode of Happy Days. The Thanksgiving episode. Jed, our oldest, my stepson,

is in third grade learning about the Hopi Nation. Stacey and I drove him to Arizona to meet the Hopi Nation, just to go and see them and do it.

whatever a tourist does and what we're allowed to do. You must lock your camera in your car because they think that you're taking their soul if you take a picture. I am invited to get my camera to take pictures of the kachina dances because I was respectful to Native Americans. They watch television on their car battery

as electricity. As we leave, grandmas come out of their huts, their houses with piping hot bread. They say, I don't know.

We have nothing else to give you. That was my life. In microcosm. How are you not grateful? Put you in that place. Fonz put you in that moment. He put me in that moment. and the writers and all my fellow actors, Marion Ross, was just 95.

Oh, my God, what a woman, what a woman. Oh, my God. Tom Bosley taught us about debentures. I have no idea what a debenture is, but he gave us a lecture on it. It was amazing. I learned to play softball. So uptown, I went to McBurney. I failed in McBurney.

we would go like a junior, senior, you could leave the campus. You go into, you didn't ask me this question, is that all right? Oh, yeah, please. That's why we're here. We're having lunch. Okay. Yeah. So, you go and into Central Park and you're riding on the carousel.

Eating our sandwiches being very, very cool, going up and down on the horses, not holding on because we're older, having tuna fish. But there's also diamonds in the middle of the park where the Hollywood

the Broadway show league is playing softball you know exactly where they are I hang on that fence I am dreaming I am I have pain

will I ever get there will I ever play ball there I want to play ball there And in 2000, I did that play with Len Carreyu and John Ritter and Penny Fuller. And I was on the team playing on those fields. Oh, my God. That's a moment. You did it.

You got to the other side of the fence. Oh, my God. I got to the other side of the fence. My whole life, every child book that we write is about a kid on this side of the fence. only just realized that looking through the fence wanting to be over there and figuring out how to get over there. I got to the other side of that fucking fence. That's life, isn't it?

It is. How do you get? Not how. You will figure it out. It is figure it out. That is life. Find a way. Find the way.

Find the way. That is no joke. Did you always want to do what you're doing? Yes. I was behind the scenes for a long time as a producer. My dad worked in television as well at CBS. So I think it was in the bloodstream a little bit. Right. But there was always that, my dad's version of what you just said is he worked,

he was a newspaper writer for the Chicago Suburban Tribune. Right. Which was not the big paper, but in the burb. He was out in the burbs by the airport. And his version was he was in this basement office. And all he wanted to do was write for the big paper, the Broadway people on the other side of the fence. And he always, how am I going to get out of this basement?

I'm going to get out. What's the way? What's the way? So that's kind of been a guide. And you always have jobs where it's not going the way you want it to go, or I should be over there. Why am I not there? Why is she there? Why is he there?

So I think I have exactly what you're talking about. We've all got that somewhere. Got to get out of this station to get to that one. How do I do it? And I think that is the way the world turns. There is a way. You just don't know it. Right.

It's probably to take a little longer than you want it to. There'll be all these twists. How am I ever going up? Right. Right. I got to Hollywood with a letter from an executive at Fox. The, the, the,

the, um, the, um, the, um, Embossed head, you know, masked head of the paper was bigger than the letter. Signed by the executive. Right. I called that man. Never got an answer.

And then I thought, well, and then you do. Yeah, it's hard to see that when you're on that side of the fence, but when you're on our side, you're going to do it. I don't know how you're going to do it either, but you're going to get over that fence. Stick around for more of my conversation with Henry Winkler right after a quick break. Welcome back now to the rest of my conversation with Henry Winkler. I have to ask one more Fonz's question. Yes.

Jumping the Sharks obviously became a, has become a common catch phrase. Yes, but in reading about it, I'm not sure it is quite accurate because that episode happened in 77. And you go on for seven more years, and many of them at number one. So actually, that's not the moment at which anything jumped the shark. That was John's opinion with his friend at Michigan State. Right. But it doesn't quite apply because you went on many successful years afterwards. So it never bothered me.

Right. My joke is that at that time people had newspapers delivered to the house. They read newspapers. Any time it said jump the shark, they showed a picture of me. water skis and I had good lives. Yeah. I look pretty good. And why not skiing a leather jacket?

Come on. That was my father. He said, tell Gary Marshall you water ski. I don't want to tell him I water ski. No, tell him you water ski. Tell him. So finally, years later, I said to

I said to Gary, my father wants you to know I water ski and wouldn't you know it. And here we are. Still talking about it. You water skied up In Westchester, right? In Mayopac.

In Mayopac. Up on the lake. Yes, well, we had a house there way above our means. Oh, sure. I write about that my father, I walked into the living room and he was on the phone with his friend, Carl, crying because he was borrowing or wanting to borrow money yet again. And I could hear through the receiver on the landline, Hi, I cannot give you any more.

I cannot do this anymore. And I have an idiosyncratic relationship with money like you can't believe. Ask my wife. She got some stories? I got stories. Oh, my gosh. I don't want to keep you here all day. I do want to ask about Barry, though, because, my gosh.

I could not have done Barry. without having met that doctor. I could not have done that character with that kind of texture. I could not have heard Alec Berg and Bill Hater and be able to translate what they said

into the scene without that doctor. I was a... If I didn't find a character piece to something I was doing before that, I was stilted as an actor. There are some performances I wish I could eat and do it again. That's so interesting.

So you were in the place, right when that came to you, you were finally ready for something like that. Still, the old Henry scared out of my mind, the new Henry coming up against it, and now tentatively pushing back, And the old Henry didn't want to give in. And the new Henry was able to do some scenes that I, or some of my favorite scenes ever.

That was one of the first big tests for the new Henry. One of the first tests of the new Henry. I never thought of it that way, but it is exactly right. And why do you think that character resonated and that show worked so well? The show was so original. And it had a point of view. When you see a show that kind of is like mealy, the writers, they have a great idea, but the commitment is not there.

The passion is not there to tell that story. Some writers put together a lot of words in a sentence. And some people put together a sentence much shorter that you light a fuse and you better. and you better get out of the way. Bill Hader and Alecberg are brilliant. The last year, the fourth year of Barry was Bill Hader's vision. And you didn't as an actor go,

you know, you know something. In this moment, I have a whole other approach. I think that you listen to Bill and you went, yes. Trust it. I'm going to try and try and try. get as close to that as you want. And it was so nice to see you rewarded in the way you were with Emmy, all the things that came your way.

People were so happy for you, which must have been incredibly gratifying. Oh, my God. I love Brandy Carlin. I went to see her for the second time this year. I cannot leave the venue without hugging her. Now, one of the great things about being on television or a celebrity, I can. get backstage. I hug her.

One of her friends on that concert, Annie Lennox, a woman from Montreal, Alison Russell, and Joni Mitchell. Go backstage, hug Brandy.

Now, if Brandy is watching this, she said, call me. I don't know how. But I like to. We'll connect you. people together. Okay, yeah. Yeah. I walk up to Johnny Mitchell, the queen, the poidesse. I lean over. I said, hello. My name is Henry Winkler. She said, I know who you are. I said, and this is Stacy, my wife, and she went, oh, so you married the farm.

Oh, that's amazing. Check please. Oh, that's it. That's it. Done. That's it. Wow. All I need now is a selfie with Bruce Springsteen, and I'm set. Oh, we can make that happen, too. You can't make him three or four times now. Unfortunately, he got ill and had to cancel. But I was going to ask him this time. It's time. But, wow.

The world needs that picture. Wow. I need that picture. I need that picture. I need that picture. I, Ron and I are walking down the street on Paramount Lot, doing that. happy days. Leaning up against the doorway of the mill where they make all of the sets for everything that is going on in Paramount, Robert De Niro. I said to Ron, we have to say hello.

He said, he was sure. I said, I arrive in Hollywood the very first movie that I'm invited to that is like a premiere, Mean Streets. We walk up to Bobby De Niro. Bobby. Sure. And we said hello and everything. And then I said, I want to just say, honestly, you use the word fuck better than anybody in the movies in the history of movies.

Thank you. 40 years later, we're at a premiere of the intern by Nancy Myers, who is a good acquaintance and heard. Daughters are very good friends of my children. Bobby De Niro, Bobby, is standing against the wall. I said, I am so sorry, but I have to ask you what everybody asks of me, I need to take a selfie with you. Is it all right? He said, sure.

You said 40 years ago, I used the word f***er better than anybody in the movie. No. Come on. You remember. Oh my God. That is unreal. It was unreal. It was unreal.

You leave an impression on people. Well, at least that did. Oh my God. That is so cool. Because you figured for him... My hand shook, taking the photograph. You figured for him that's just another moment. That's what I thought.

No. You remember. All right. Last thing, Henry, and then we'll let you go. The children's books. You've got another one out now. Yes. And they hold a, it seems to me anyway, a significant place in your life because you turn to that at a time when...

Well, you know what, it was a time filler. Yeah. I was having a hard time being hired as an actor. And somebody suggested a friend of mine said, write books for children. I said, I can't. Said about your dyslexia. I said, I am dyslexic. I really can't.

I'll introduce you to Lynn Oliver. We met. And in 2003, our first of 39 novels came out. So when I say, you don't know what you can accomplish until you just try. I'm not kidding. I know from life. And my name is on. And our newest one, about a lot.

little duckling who lives on a pond, the picture of which was on a jigsaw puzzle that we were making during the pandemic that I took a picture of and sent to Lynn. I said, this is where the duckling lives. And she uses her detective skills. This was very important. She's an environmentalist. So she wants to keep her pond really healthy for all of her friends. The dragonfly, the frog, the heron, the fish, bad breath after. And her dad is a diver. I mean, think about the phases of your professional career and all the things you've been able to do. It's incredible.

But you don't know until you try. Only now when I look back, I go, oh, wow, this is something. This is a thing. Yeah. And here we are. And here we are. And I'm very happy to be with you. Thank you, Henry. It's a pleasure to share. And a really... And a really... It's a sandwich. Now we can really jam the rest of it in our faces. Yeah. Well, I'm going to save this for later because I'm full. I'm going to finish mine off. I'm going to stay with you why do. Thank you, sir. Yeah. My big thanks again to Henry for a great conversation. You can get his book now. It's called Being Henry, The Fonz, and Beyond, wherever you get your books.

And my thanks to all of you for listening again this one. week. If you want to hear more of these conversations with our guests every week, be sure to click follow so you never miss an episode. And don't forget to tune in to Sunday today every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit Down podcast.