Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Jim Gaffigan

Episode Date: February 28, 2021

Jim Gaffigan’s relatable, family-focused stand-up act has made him one of the biggest draws in comedy, with Forbes recently ranking him 3rd on the list of highest-earning comedians. In this week’s “Sunday Sitdown,” Willie Geist gets together with Gaffigan for a conversation about his 30 years in the industry and a lesson in his newest quarantine hobby: cross-country skiing. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks as always for clicking and listening along. I've got a personal favorite for you today with superstar stand-up comedian Jim Gaffigan, one of the funniest people walking this earth right now. And part of the reason I love this podcast and our Sunday Sit Down that you can watch on NBC as well is that there was no reason for it. He doesn't really have a movie coming out today. He doesn't really have a stand-up special that begins.

streaming. There's no book to talk about. It's just that we kind of live near each other, and he has taken up cross-country skiing, something he has railed against in his stand-up act in the past. During this pandemic, he's got his family up outside of New York City where they typically live for the last year or so to spread out and have some more space, his wonderful wife, Jeannie, and their five children living up in Westchester County, which is north of New York City. And he decided to take up cross-country skiing. I asked him why, despite the fact he's claimed he doesn't like it. And as you'll hear him explain, it's because it gets him away from his family, that no one else wants to go cross-country skiing. So he bought the skis. He's been doing it up in this park,

and he said, hey, why don't you and I go for a cross-country ski, and then we can just sit and talk? So that's exactly what we did. So what you'll hear at first is the two of us, I've never been on cross-country skis. I'm a pretty good downhill skier, but never done cross-country for all the reasons that Jim Gaffigan rails against because it's the worst part of skiing, which is just on flatland. I like the downhill. I like gravity to help. But he claims to like it. So he offered to give me a little lesson.

Kind of confessed he wasn't as good as he claimed and didn't know as much about it as he'd claimed when he pitched it to me. But we did it anyway. We had some fun. And then we sat down in that same park. There's a little sort of shelter there where we've had a fireplace. And we just talked about comedy. We talked about his amazing career. We talked about his not going blue being a clean comedian and what that means to him.

Is that an insult somehow in the world of comedy? His recent turn online where he got political, he's been broad and apolitical in his comedy for most of his career, but he went on Twitter during the Republican National Convention, had a rant that got a lot of news. And we'll talk about why he did that. I'm rambling. You don't need to hear from me anymore. You want to hear from the great Jim Gaffigan. and please have mercy,

as you have a mental picture of the two of us in an open park, basically a big baseball field, covered in snow and ice, me trying cross-country skiing for the first time right now with the great Jim Gaffigan on the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Jim, we're in the middle of a field. Yes. Somewhere outside New York City.

Yes. On razor-thin skis. Yes. Why are we doing this? Because one of the things we've learned during the pandemic is you need excuses to get away from your family. And the safe options are limited. That, and I'm training for the Winter Olympics.

Are you? Beijing in 24? Is it Beijing? I think so, yeah. Oh, that's good, because I have an apartment there, thanks to Joe Biden. So I think probably one of the advantages of this sport is that not many people want to join you in it. So if you want to be alone, this is the one. This is like outside of snowshoeing, this is the sport where you don't have to even invite people

because you know they don't want to do it. You want to go cross-country skiing? It's like if you find the elliptical, too dynamic. No, I like it. There's something meditative about cross-country skiing. and it's uh it gets me away from my family and i mean that in the most horrible way have you tried to recruit them at all the kids or genie come out and done this i'm too cheap i don't want to waste the money on these and when i bought these by the way

they were all sold out they were all sold out popular others are doing this it's very popular because there is social distancing built into this. Right. Because as you said, no one wants to do it. Is this for people who've not heard about downhill skiing? It's, you know, if you're intimidated by the enjoyment of downhill skiing. I have to point out, Jim, you have a riff in one of your stand-up acts about cross-country.

where you are really down on it. Yes. And now all of a sudden here you are. So I know. How's the conversion happen? Well, everything is, this pandemic has been an opportunity to reexamine all your values. Right? And so cross-country skiing is now something I enjoy.

And it also counts as exercise. So after this, it's like, I don't know if there's a rule, but after this, you can eat whatever you want. You can have a milkshake. You can have two milkshakes. Is that what you do on the way home? Hit the drive-through? I do.

We're allowed to eat whatever we want. I thought you put it well in your stand-up when you said, cross-country skiing is that part of downhill skiing where you're just trying to get to the lift. Yes. Which is the worst part of the day. What if we just did that? Yeah.

And here we are. Do you have a technique you like to use? I mean, it feels pretty natural to you. I think it's kind of like you have slippers on and you're trying to make as much noise so that your wife knows that you're getting up and getting her coffee and you'd like a thank you. So it's kind of a lift the slipper, slide the slipper, guilt trip slide, guilt trip slide, that kind of thing. Just a little wake up?

Just a little bit like I'm out here doing this for you. think about that when I do my three-hour nap in 20 minutes. Was cross-country skiing part of your winters in Indiana growing up? Well, it is something I did, but again, I didn't do it much. We did it. I think my parents got the kids cross-country skis, thinking that we would use them, and we didn't. But like they were different then, you know?

I mean, we didn't have snowpack. back then. No. You know what I mean? There was no. It was much more of the last resort of something to do. But I did it maybe, I've probably done it more times during this pandemic than I did in my entire life. And you do it around here because apparently there's been some sightings in the wild of Jim Gaffigan on his cross country teeth. Well, some of that was the vomitable snowman. But sometimes I will be seen out there. People will be like, who's that good looking guy, cross-country skiing? People will be like, oh, that's Jim Gaffigan. And then other people will be like, oh, he's so much better looking than I remember.

And then, I don't know. But sometimes I'll get out there. It's just, you know, you get to spend some time away from your family and your family's not there and there's no family. You're alone away from your family. But I love my family. How we mentioned, Jim has five kids. Yeah.

And this time is very important. It is. Yeah. It's like, you know, I haven't gotten to ice fishing. That's where you really are just frightened to get a divorce, right? Ice fishing is like, you know what? I don't want to split up the stuff. You know, this is a gateway to ice fishing.

This is the gateway to ice fishing. You're on your way. That is a solitary exercise. alone on a frozen lake right it's maybe it's like how can you justify drinking during the day Jim this has been fun what's the what's the what's the Opry ski situation after cross-country you bring that up I it's very traditional European I'll do something that kind of reminds me of what a European would do I'll go to five guys or sometimes if I'm feeling a little bit, you know, different. I might go to Burger King.

But it depends. If my kids, I have to reward them with food because they're my kids. Sure. And food is a reward, right? And that's the healthy approach to food. But yeah, no, it's usually go back and then make them dinner and then just start the process of begging them to sleep, right? And you've earned your own nap after this.

I've earned my own nap. Yeah. I'm a big napper. I believe in naps. You know, so many of the problems of this world could be solved with naps. You know what I mean? Like there's a lot of problems in the Middle East. It's like, this guy should nap.

You know what I mean? Maybe the Israelis and the Palestinians need to nap together. You know what I mean? I'm just saying, I'm just pitching that. If that comes up later on and people are like, this is a good idea, it's be like, oh, you know what? Jim Gaffigan brought out of that. Well, they've tried everything else.

Why not napping? Let's see if it works. Let's see if it works. The NAP Accords. Which will later become known as the Gaffigan Accords. The Gaffigan Accords, right? Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Jim Gaffigan right after the break.

Welcome back to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Now more of my conversation with Jim Gaffigan as we sit down for a little appra ski with Hot Coco after our cross-country adventure. Cheers, man. Cheers. Good to see you. Good to see you. Look at us by a fire with hot coat. I know.

Right? Fires are so relaxing. It's very nice. I feel very mellow right now. So is this a typical operaski for you then? I mean, in between the five guys. I'll go to five guys.

Have hot chocolate. Then I will go pick up some bagels. I do a lot of honors. I do a lot of online grocery shopping, which is fascinating because it actually takes longer and is more annoying than shopping in person, right? Totally. Totally. I didn't realize, I guess I should have, that I was in a grocery store one time early in the morning,

and the only other people in there were the shoppers for people like you. You didn't look at them, did you? Don't look at them. No, no. I felt very out of place, though. I said, don't look at me, shopper. So beyond cross-country skiing, how has the last year been for you and Jeannie and the kids? It's insane.

I think we're all, we're not even aware of how insane this experience has been, right? I think that it's been a measure of finding some balance. I feel like in my household with my family, it's we take turns kind of holding it together, right? It's really strange and hard. Obviously, other people have it much harder, you know? And so, but yeah, we have five kids doing distance learning. My wife is high risk, and I'm considered high risk because, as she describes it, I'm obese. I am obese.

It's her to remind you of that. It just feels like obese. I mean, it's just short for American, right? Obese. I have an app. My wife bought me a scale because she loves me. And I stepped on it, and it's all the types really small. And I didn't know what it said.

I thought it said, you know, underneath it, like, average. And I showed my 16-year-old daughter. I'm like, what is that site? Does that say average when she said it says obese? No. She's actually an app that reminds you. That I'm obese. Wow.

That's tough. But I feel like that would be a cool band name, right? Obese. Have you heard the new album by Obese? I feel like there would be a female singer of obese. Right. I can see you on bass maybe. I'd be on bass or drums.

Just in the back. Drum seems like a lot of work. Bass is more. Are there any other new habits that you, you've picked up besides cross-country skiing, we've all sort of found ourselves doing things we never would have had time for or dreamed we'd be doing. Right. Well, I did the gardening. I have been exercising. I hadn't done that in decades. What else have I been doing? In addition to the cross-country skiing? Well, I can sit. That's the great thing about cross-country skiing. You're just sliding,

but that counts as exercise. Absolutely. And we're all about hitting our steps, right? So how many steps do I have? I try to hit steps and then around like 11, I just consume alcohol. I don't know if that's good or bad. Like if you drink like a, like drinking two bottles of bourbon at night,

that's not bad. Well, it does offset the cross-country scheme. They're not big bottles. Well, they're that size. bottles, but they're American, so it's like I'm supporting the economy. Right, right, right. It's important to support small business right now. I get violent when I...

Oh, God. I tend to get violent when I drink bourbon. When you drink a handle of bourbon late at night? I never... I never was a drink-at-night kind of guy. I was much more drink during the day. No, but I've engaged in that.

My wife is encouraged that. I guess you would call her enabling that. No, but it's weird how there's, so I was never a cocktail at night guy. Okay. I would do that. I've done that a little bit. I've had a, spent an enormous amount on social media, which is always productive. That's always productive.

That's quality time used. Always ends well. Do you mean? you put time in and when you're done, you know, dealing with social media, you always feel better. You always feel better. You feel like you've done productive use of your time. Well, it's nice to hear from the people sometimes, too. Right. And you know what? And some of them, it's amazing how, like, people with zero followers and no posts seem the most angry. And a lot of the people, why are so many people's social media profiles, their avatars, are pictures of them driving what appears to be a car?

It's just them in a driver's seat. Right. What are they trying to say? They don't have time. Right. Right. Got to make a profile photo. I'm in my car.

Like, they're all signing up while they're driving. Yeah. They're probably doing online shopping for someone. Of course they are, which is a huge pain in the ass. Speaking of being online, you've been active in this last year, in particular. Speaking out about politics, taking some stands, we hadn't heard from you publicly over the years. What was that decision about? Why did you make that turn?

I wanted to alienate as many people as I could. No, it was, I mean, I've kind of talked about it online, but some of it is, I think over the fall, it was, I wanted, I saw the way things could go, and I wanted to be very clear. And also as a parent, I didn't want my kids to not see me take a stand for things that I believe in. I felt like that was more important than adding a second show in Cincinnati. By the way, I love Cincinnati. But, and I, you know, some of it, I describe it as almost kind of treating myself.

But we're all looking for a catharsis through this crisis, right? And sometimes you're articulating things well. And I don't know, it's weird because I'm always somebody who believe that, No celebrity is going to change anyone's vote. And I don't believe that I changed anyone's vote. I just wanted people to not necessarily fall for the lies. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

And so that's what I kind of hope for. Because I do think that it's not that I think people care about my views. It's just that I care about their views. Do you know what I mean? I don't think people care about who I vote for. I care about who they're voting for. And that's why I'm running for governor of Texas against Matthew McConaughey because he's in the pocket of China. China owns him. That's if Matthew McConaughey is not a clone. He could be. Is this your first attack ad here exclusively with us? This is my first attack ad. First of all, I'm obviously better looking. than Matthew McConaughey. Goes without saying. Better shape. I'm better on bongos.

He is a leftist. Matthew McConaughey's radical leftist agenda for, he wants everyone to play bongos. I don't know. You can't use any of this. Oh, it's all we're using. It's all we're using. Was there any calculation because I know people who've sort of had that same evolution of, okay,

maybe if I speak out, I might lose a couple of fans or I might lose business opportunities in not just comedians, but I know people in other areas who've sort of made their careers with broad appeal. Was there any consideration of that? And you just thought, well, this is too important. I'm going to do it anyway. Yeah, you know, I, and believe me, I really was, and ambitious and wanted to expand the audience and I wanted to subtly communicate ideas through my comedy. But I think it's hanging around my kids and I didn't want there to be any blur because there was very much. Occasionally I would see people describe me as conservative because, you know, I'm a Catholic and all these things.

And so I felt, you know, while I enjoyed the unknowingness or staying out of it, I also felt that we're in an interesting time in our country. And I don't want my kids to be looking at me and going, why didn't you stand up? Why didn't you say that these things are important? Why didn't you say this behavior is wrong? And so, you know, I understand that Dolly Parton, which I've often compared to, is, and I have a lot of respect for Dolly Parton.

Love Dolly Parton. And she's done the approach, you know, you don't need to do that. But I'm a comedian. I'm not a singer. I mean, I have a very beautiful voice. Your album's coming out soon. My album's coming out soon. It's mostly EDM.

But, no, but to each their own. And you know what? There is kind of, I haven't done stand-up really in a year. So maybe I lost sight of what I'm going to lose. Maybe I'll regret it. I don't really, I don't have any regrets on, you know, like essentially standing. standing up for things that I would want my children to stand up for. And I'm sure I'll make mistakes, you know.

But I'm one of those people who's like boldly gone against bad guys. Do you know what I mean? It's like, what's wrong? Like, I don't feel any discomfort with that. Yeah. You know, I mean, I don't want to get beat up. but I do think that there's this history in this country

there's good and bad but there's a lot of people that have stood up for the right things and I admire them you know I'm comparing myself to Dolly Parton and heroes I think we caught everybody with that one you could cut this in a way to make me sound so bad we're going to crush you

Have you missed being out on the road, being out on stage and doing stand-up? I mean, your entire life is a stand-up. It's just nomadic existence from since the time you can- It's been such a huge adjustment because it's not only is it traveling that is healthy for me and my wife, there is the creative fulfillment of going on stage and getting immediate feedback. is the endorphin rush is, and then going cold turkey is really something to, you know, it's going cold turkey in a way that I wouldn't want anyone subjected to.

So, I mean, again, I've had some creative outlets, which helps a lot. But yeah, no, and by the way, Anyway, my career, you know, I've been doing stand-up for 30 years. I know I look like I'm in my early 30s, but I'm not. And so I've established something, and I've, you know, I'm concerned about the comedians that were just about to break through or we're finally selling out shows in comedy clubs. Those are the comedians that it's harder for. But yeah, no, I don't know if I even know how to do it anymore.

Did I ever know how to do it? I don't know. I think you're going to be okay. I've talked to other comedians whose families are sick of them because they're trying bits or they're making an observation and they're like, hey, we're not the audience in Cincinnati, leave us out of this. Do you feel that at all at home? Well, I'm a workhorse.

Like, I love to work. And I talk to comedians and they're, They're like, I'm writing, I'm doing things. And I'm like, I'm not. I'm not doing anything. So when this ends and people are like, what did you do during summer? Or did you write your turn paper? I'm going to be like, no, I didn't do it.

I didn't. But I have no concept of what I used to do. Like how I, like, I'm going to need a couple days just to recover from this interview. Do you know what I mean? Like, I used to do. so many things. I used to do stuff during the day, pick up a kid, you know, go to a parent teacher conference, eat dinner, go out, do stand up. Now I'm kind of like, you know what, I've got a Zoom at like three, so I should probably nap now so that I can do the Zoom and then

after that I'm going to be wiped out. You know what I mean? Like I'll make dinner, but I'm not going to clean up. Who's got the energy? So I don't know what I'm going to do. It's, I was late for this for no reason at all. I don't think you were late for this. I will. I think I was maybe I was late. Yeah. And, you know, I used to pride myself on never being late, always, you know, and now I'm kind of like, you know what? I thought of that too. All the things we used to do at night or going places and event, like, ooh, that feels like a big lift now, doesn't it? I have to get dressed. Yeah, exactly. Get dressed, get a cab. You're wearing jeans. I'm wearing sweatpants. I'm not exaggerating. I'm not exaggerating at all. I have worn jeans,

which I assume are pants. I've worn pants three times in the last 365 days. Come on. Three times. All sweats. All sweats are shorts or a thong. You know what I mean? No, or, you know, just shorts. It's just, here's another thing that my wife would probably want me to bring up. Showering is not a priority

like it used to be. It used to be, well, obviously we shower every day. Now I'm kind of like, you know what? Then you've got to clean the towel. You know, it's like I didn't really go outside. I didn't really do anything. Do you know what I mean?

Do I need to shower? Isn't that bad for your hair if you shower too much? Well, usually something warrants a shower. I went somewhere. I did something. I worked up myself up to a shower. I'm going to do a show. And if there's no shows, no showers.

But I showered for you. Did you really? I did. How recently was that? That was today? What year is this? No, I did. No, I showered last night.

Nice. I saw it last night. That means a lot. Thank you. You know, the grooming thing is very strange, right? It's like, but you, look at you, you know. Well, this is just fresh off the cross-country course. I was doing my best here, you know?

Yeah. You know, it's like, it's hard to care when there's no reason to care, right? See, you're on TV every day. So you need your hair. You know what I mean? I've got the Jamie Raskin. Oh, the Raskin. I've got the Raskin.

And so in the morning, I see the Raskin. Sure. He would be all right with me calling it the Raskin. Oh, yeah. No, no. It's a tribute to Jamie Raskin. It is a tribute, right? So are you, does that mean then you genuinely are not writing stand-up sets?

I'm not. There's not going to be some big special, right, when this comes out. I have material. I had material. I haven't really looked at it. And again, I talk to comedians and they're like, yeah, I've been trying to write. I'm like, I'm not even trying. But I do have material that, like, if I was, so in August, I'm going to be going on tour.

Yikes. And so I have material. And I have been writing these commentaries on that other show. So I have ideas, but that's, you know, you know, that's not good enough. It's a really, I'm going to really regret it that I didn't prepare. Those first couple shows are going to be rough. They're going to be very rough.

Maybe go see Jim a couple weeks into the tour. Is that what we're saying? Well, I'd come to the first couple shows are going to be really interesting. It's going to be interesting because people are like, once you get back on stage, I'm like, I don't think so. It's not like riding a bike. It's not, it's if they're writing, if you had to tell jokes, you're writing it maybe.

Well, because you can't go warm up anywhere. I mean, you can't go to the laugh factor you're going to, you know, wherever you do it normally and test it out. You're just throwing it out in the wind. There was talk of like, oh, maybe different parts of the world, but no, you can't go anywhere, really. We're doing great as humans. Like, as humans, we're really, we're doing well.

Yeah. Dear man. We got our arms around this thing. Right? Yeah. We got it. We're good. We're good.

Do you have a name? I am interested in, we've been talking about Indiana and growing up there. You were the youngest of six. Yeah. And I think the sort of obvious... I'm still the youngest of six. Yes, you remain the youngest of six. I think the obvious observation is you had to fight for attention, so you were funny,

and that's what launched you into this career. Is that too obvious, or is that kind of the way it was, that you had to be a little bit funny to get your voice heard? I was kind of the... The mascot, but I think it was less about attention and more about stopping them from beating me. No, it was, I had all these older siblings, and I had to find out a way where I was not just this competitor for food, because my parents would only feed us once a week. Is that bad? They would give us a bag of grain, which was the Midwest.

They just dump it out into a pig trough, which I thought was rude. And no, but so I remember, I think that the humor was a tool to gain my siblings' respect. And my siblings are very funny, too. And it was also, you know, I did an impression of my dad, so it was kind of a way to disarm that, you know, that authority. Right. It's a long way, though, to go from being the funny kid in your house, which a lot of people probably think they are, to making a career of it.

Yeah. So at what point did you think to yourself, oh, there might be a life in being funny. There might be a career as a stand-up comedian. When did that idea even cross your mind? It's, it's real, you know, I was raised. to, I describe it as seek security. Do you know what I mean? To, you know, my dad was the first one to go to college,

so it was like success was wearing a tie to work. There was no contemplation of the arts or anything like that. And so I followed all these rules that I was supposed to follow. So, you know, go to college, study, finance, all these things. And like I was supposed to. And I really was, and then I got a job. And I was miserable. And so I had to reevaluate what I wanted to do.

So, like, even in college when people would be like, what do you want to do? I'd be like, what am I supposed to say? Like, I couldn't. You know, I didn't have the maturity to kind of really evaluate. what I wanted. And so I think it was in my 20s where I was just, you know, I have to find something that I like because I'm tired of pretending that I thought if I got paid to do financial work, it would be rewarding.

Like I thought that, oh, nobody likes golf, but people do like golf. And people do like finance. I just thought people were acting like they like that. And you just weren't one of them. They liked either. Yeah. And so I, and then it just came to a point where I was like, I'm going to have to find out what I want to do.

And maybe because I was the youngest and I was considered eccentric for the family, that I embrace this. But, you know, I have very funny brothers. They could have been comedians. Everyone's creative in my family. But, you know, it's, you got to go for it, right? Yeah. So when you're doing those shows in New York, late at night and still having to go to work the next day,

and the story goes falling asleep at your desk quite a bit. Yeah. How do you power through as a stand-up comedian night after night after night, getting up there, getting some laughs, maybe there are 15 people in the room? Yeah. How do you sustain that and say, this is working for me or this is something that I want to keep doing? when there's so much rejection involved in it. Yeah, I think it's, I think mental illness.

I think that, but I, you know, I joke, but I do think that repeatedly doing something and expecting a different outcome is insanity, right? But I think that people that pursue, you know, creative goals or any type of goal, it's there is not a logic behind it. There's just a passion. right so there was something about it where you know I think my family was like well yeah

Jimmy's kind of a little weird you know what I mean he's doing his comedy thing and and you have to just I remember just kind of going all right I'm going to be the weird uncle that lives in a filthy apartment in New York City because there was plenty of years I was doing stand-up and no success whatsoever. There would be these comedy festivals and the comedy festival people would I would go on stage. They would leave the room.

Do you know what I mean? So there was no indication that there was going to be any success whatsoever. And I had to come to peace with that. And I know. And I look so young. So it's very strange.

And a lot of people are like, Jim, why don't you go into modeling? And I'm like, you know what? Because I don't want to be judged for that. You know what I mean? It's so brave of you. Yeah, it is. There's a certain bravery there.

So then you go on, we were just talking about Letterman, a guy that we both love and grew up, sort of idolized. You have the added effect that he's an Indiana guy as well. You go on Letterman in 99, I think. Yes. And those were the days when going on Letterman and killing changed your life overnight. What was that night like? It was truly, you know, you have to understand I was also the last of my peers to get a late night spot. So like at that point, the late night spots, the most important ones at that time were Letterman and Conan.

and obviously the Tonight Show. And so for me, Letterman was the thing because I was from Indiana and growing up and seeing him on TV and going, this guy's funny, this guy's from Indiana. You know, he has this, he informed my sensibility. Yeah. And so getting on that show

and getting it two or three years after everyone had done a TV spot. So I was kind of the last, one of my peers, of my generation of comedians. I was definitely ready. And then when I, after the show, I was informed that Rob Burnett, who's Dave's executive producer, wants to talk to me, I was thrilled. I thought maybe they wanted me to be a writer there.

And so when he said they wanted to develop a TV show, I didn't know at the time, but the entertainment industry is such. Watch a, if you, if someone of David Letterman's level is okay with you, then everyone else opens the door. So I had been to meetings in L.A. like two months earlier and people were like dismissive. And then once Letterman liked me and wanted to do a development deal, everyone wanted me. So, but, you know, I don't want to present it as then, you know, it was just a gravy train. but it was, it's the perception business. It opened a lot of doors, which is huge.

Yeah, and I imagine just on a person level to have the validation of one of your heroes. Oh, yeah, no, hearing is, because I knew exactly, I mean, I could tell you David Letterman's life. I could tell you Paul Schaefer's life. And so when you're doing a set, your first television set, a network television set, which it's hard to understand how important it was

to people that. And hearing those laughs was huge. And then he invited me over, which is much more of a Carson thing, but it was a big deal. It was a very big deal. To sit down. Yeah.

Yeah, you don't see that much with Dave. I don't, I mean, you know, Jerry, those guys would go sit with them, but I don't think a young comedian typically was waved over by Dave, were they? No, and it was very, and I was terrified. And so it was funny because I was, you know, he said you're from Indiana and, you know, I'm from outside of Chastafin, which is outside of Gary. And he goes, I've never heard of it. And I was like, all right, I made it up.

You know, so it's one of those things where, you know, this is very organic. But usually late night shows when you would do paneling, it's scripted. But with Letterman, now it's very common. you know like you know both the jimmies and cobert it's very organic but it used to be pretty scripted so it was kind of terrifying and fun right you do the pre-interview you know what story's coming he teased you up and you yeah that's the old thing yeah

yeah so from there so that's now you're off and running um where would you say was the next leap i mean that the hot pockets moment oh my god is one that everyone sort of seized on and said Okay, Jim Gaffigan's the Hot Pockets guy. I love that guy. What was the genesis of the Hot Pockets moment? The Hot Pockets thing, it's the blessing and a curse, right? It's, I mean, it will pay for my children to go to college.

But it's also, I don't know if I need more drunk people yelling Hot Pocket to me. Or my, you know, whenever anything happens in the news, my timelines have all social media. People, you know, alert me like I had a child, you know, who was kidnapped. You know, they, they send me news stories about hot pocket. But the hot pocket thing started because this initial hot pocket commercial was so bad that I thought it was hysterically bad. But I also knew that it was.

So I would do it a couple times. I tried the bit a couple times in New York City at comedy clubs. And no one in New York knew what it was, because in New York City you can just go and get a piece of pizza. But I knew that the rest of the country, this was the next stage of the 7-Eleven burrito. And so then I just kind of started coming up with bits on it. But I got very lucky because it really...

It really kind of the material coincided with this Hot Pocket becoming part of our culture. But now, whenever I do anything, like I remember one time I did some event for, I was interviewed for, because I did something with the Bob Woodruff Foundation. And I was being interviewed on CNN. And they listed my name as Jim Hot Pocket Gaff again. What? On the Chiron? On the Chiron. So friends of mine sent me that.

So that was classic. Well, it is like, you know, if you go see the stones and they don't play satisfaction, you're like a little bummed. So do you feel like you've got to like place crowd pleasers into your sets? You know, there is, you know, there's certain bits that, and the good thing about hot pockets is there's always news and there's new stuff. So it can move and flow. but like there's bits that people really like.

But the weird thing about stand-up is people fall in love with bits, but when you go and see a live performance, you want new stuff. There's an unspoken agreement that it is going to be new. And so, but when I tour, I usually do it as an encore. And that usually cleans up, you know, because there are some eight-year-olds in the audience that just want to hear that and only that. And you're like, well, I don't want this kid to be sad. And I've gone through dreading during the joke to, you know, reinventing it.

So it's all good. Do you, you mention eight-year-old. And now I don't even know how to do stand-up. You've totally lost. I cannot wait for those first shows in August. Yeah. So you've been described as clean and family-friendly, and you've heard all the descriptions of your act.

Do you like those descriptions or those? How do you view yourself as a comedian? Well, I mean, as a comedian, I guess I am, I don't curse, but as an individual, I'm a horrible person. But I would also say that the only adjective comedians want is funny. Yeah. So all the other, I guess I can't speak for other comedians, but that's the only adjective, you know, whether you're clean or, in my case, good-looking.

I don't need that. I just want funny. So, and also the clean thing is it's a little, you know, I know people have to, you know, put things in categories. But it's not as if anyone is going to a comedy show when we used to go to comedy shows, just to hear someone not curse, right? Like there's a certain, I feel like there's a certain, culturally, we live with a certain dishonesty about cursing. Now, I understand there are some people that never curse.

They stub their toe and they say, oh, darn, right? But the reality is most of us do. But for me, for my stand-up, it's hopefully when I used to do it, It's about authenticity. And so if I'm discussing something, even if I feel passionate about it, is it necessary to curse? You know, for Lewis Black, it is. That's authentic for him. Right.

But if, you know, I'm from a small town in Indiana, you know, if someone was cursing in my town, people would be like, is he okay? Do you know what I mean? Right. But if he stubbed his toe, people would be like, I stepped his toe. I don't know. Were there people, though, along the way? No one in my town ever cursed. Ever. Were there people along the way who said, Jim, maybe you should have a little edge and drop an F-bomb in here?

Do people say things like that? Really? Well, you know, I have, when I start, some of it is, as a comedian, you don't immediately. obtain your voice on stage, meaning your point of view. You try things on. So often people will imitate a favorite comedian. And there's different aspects to everyone's personality.

Sometimes people will be super sarcastic. Sometimes people will be doing voices. Some people will be high energy. Do you know what I mean? And if it's usually, the irony is usually people just end up being who they are. But there was a time when I tried being filthy. There was a time when I tried being a political comedian. You know what I mean?

But yeah, no, when I... And so then I just ended up like, I'm just going to do what I do. But there was a time when I... One of the first times I released a comedy album, there was someone from the label that was like, hey, when you do the recording, throw in some curse words. because the kids will like the curse worth. Because by the way, and I don't think,

I think I did a little bit, but the weird thing is I've seen comments where people are like, this guy doesn't curse, I don't like it. You know, from, so there are people that are like, you know, there's no cursing, I don't want it. You know what I mean? Like, that's what people are in.

I interviewed a couple years ago on this show, Jerry Seinfeld, about this same question. said the gratuitous F-bomb in the middle. He says, whenever he hears that, that's the red flag. Oh, we haven't fully thought through this joke, have we? Just to, like, give it a little punch because we don't feel like it has enough behind it to carry. Yeah, that's where, I mean, I discovered when I was doing, when I started doing TV spots on Letterman and Conan, I, you have to get these four-minute sets approved.

and you obviously have to get rid of curse words or wildly inappropriate things. And so what I realized is that a lot of those jokes weren't done. There were these crutches that held them up. And so, but it's, yeah, it is, you know, there is something that, it's strange because the relationship a comedian has with their audience is you have to challenge them.

And that's what, it's like any conversation with a friend. Like if you have the exact same conversation with a friend, you're like, I can't talk about it. But if they challenge you and surprise you, then it's fun. So as a comedian, I do feel as though I'll bring some topics up that are not me eating a deli sandwich. Do you know what I mean? Or you think it's that, but I'm actually making a commentary on gluttony. behavior. Right. Right. You have, you're one of the most popular stand-ups in the world, most successful in the world. Is it fair to say that your career and where you've arrived is sort

of vindication for just being yourself, being who you are and not listening to the people who told you to be this character on stage or cover these topics on stage and just listen to your gut and just do what you think is funny and watch the audience come to you? Yeah, there's some of that, but I think it's also it's about, you know, doing work on your, you know, it's also a lot of the advice I got is advice that was right in some ways. So I think that there's a lot of advice we get that we only understand once we don't take the advice and then we learn it. Right. Do you what I mean?

It's like, as a parent, you're like, all right, I'm going to tell you this. You're not going to believe me, but eventually you'll realize it. So there is something about, I don't know, I feel like things take longer for me anyway. So it's some of it is like all these lessons I had to learn. I wish that I could have absorbed them by reading a book, but I kind of had to learn them on my own. Do you know what I mean? To kind of just be yourself.

So even though that's one of those things people say, you really have to find the meaning behind that on your own. Yeah. That's true probably of most professions and most lives. You've got to live it to figure it out. What's cool now to is your turn toward. dramatic stuff. You were awesome and chappaquitic. Really good. You got linoleum coming out. You're doing a live action little mermaid. Oh, no, Peter Pan. Peter Pan, sorry,

Peter Pan. Is that a conscious move by you to sort of like keep your stand-up career but also do some heavy stuff too? Well, I always wanted, I've always wanted to act. It's just the opportunities were not there. And so the entertainment industry is it's really, I know that we live

in this perception that people are discovered in soda shops, but the reality is it's really risk-averse. Yeah. If you are a director or a producer,

you want to put someone in the role that is going to be able to do the job and is not going to be a pain in the ass. And so once you can do a job and not be a pain in the ass, other people are like, he can do the job and not be a pain in the ass. I'll hire him.

And so, and the strange thing with comedian is I think that there are plenty of comedians that are good actors, but most of them, it's not a true passion. Right. And so for me, it's something I always, I always wanted to act. It's just, you know, the reputation of comedians being Robin Williams is just something that people always think.

They're like, oh, like Robin Williams, you're like, well, you know, he's a completely different person. But yeah. No, not remotely like Robin Williams, actually. Was it a hard sell at first? I remember seeing you in Chapman, and I was like, oh, look at Jim. In the middle of this, like, movie about this moment in history at the side of it. Teddy Kennedy, was it a hard sell at first for people to see you that way, directors and anybody else to see a stand-up as an actor? I think it's, you know, I think the entertainment

industry puts people in buckets and it's easier to keep them in buckets. So it is difficult to prove that you can do certain things and to get the opportunity to do that. So yeah, It's, it is, yeah, it's, it's one of those things where you, I mean, I love the process of doing it. I love small things, you know, chappaquittic, it's not like I had tons of lines in there, but I could build the character around. And, you know, the process of film is so fun because you're building the story with someone who has a vision. vision and you can, you know, you're showing them, you're kind of like the eye doctor. You're like, is this better and this better? To someone, and there's something very rewarding of being the partner. And by the way, the whole being in charge of everything thing sounds like a nightmare.

Because I was an executive producer of a TV show. I need too much sleep. It's in the way of nap time. Yeah. It eliminates it. Before I release you, back into the wild. We've got to talk about your wife, Jeannie, who's also a writing partner and a mom and all the other things. You guys met first creatively before romantically. Is that right? Or was it simultaneous? So we were dating and then I had, so I did Letterman for the first time, got this development deal. I met Jeannie. The pilot, shot the pilot, the pilot got picked. picked up and then I was essentially thrust into the lead of this show across from Christine Beranski and my girlfriend, Jeannie at the time, essentially became my acting coach and helped

me through this overwhelming process. And so it was, it worked all around. And so my wife has this same work ethic, which is an unhealthy work ethic. So it's not as if I'm usually the one that's like, hey, can we just not work for like an hour? So we both have the same mentality. Like she always has a bunch of stuff going on and I have a bunch of stuff going on. And we did the show together. She directs all the specials. You know, there's. always the collaboration is very much part of the relationship. And we've never argued once. Really?

Isn't that amazing? Congratulations on that. Not once. Not even a disagreement. Does she write stand up with you too? I mean, or do you just try it out on her and if she says it doesn't work? The collaboration has changed constantly. So before we had kids, we used to drink wine.

and talk about comedy ideas, and then there would be some traveling, even when we had just my daughter, where my daughter slept on, you know, filthy comedy club couches. But it varies. So sometimes it's, she's kind of hired as a, you could view her as a consultant

at the last stage of it. but there is very much a collaborative process. But some of it is, you know, if she's writing a book or she's running a youth program, she doesn't have time to be the collaborative partner that she once was. But yeah, her fingers were on everything I write. I believe she's funny as hell.

And I was happy to hear you say she's doing well. Her health is good. Yes. And you talked about her health condition on stage. She used it in some of your comedy. Obviously, she was okay with that. Is that something that you felt like you needed to get out there? Was that cathartic for you in some way?

Yeah, you know, it's interesting. Being this observational, Seinfeld hates it when I call myself an observational comedian. But being an observational comedian, and at that time having, you know, 25 years of stand-up, experience. I took these tools of writing jokes about like bacon and, you know, naps and I applied it

to this medical crisis that my wife went through and my family went through. And so, yeah, I mean, some of it was cathartic for me, but what was

really interesting was how the medical crisis that my wife had was, as I toured with the material, it was very apparent that that's a universal experience. Everyone has a loved one that is going through a medical issue or has gone through a medical issue that is so deep and dark that we have that lingering memory or we are living with it right now. And so it was really interesting to get exposure to a different angle.

People would come up and tell you their stories. Yes, absolutely. There are a lot of it. Hey, guys, stick around to hear more from Jim Gaffigan after a quick break. Welcome back to the Sunday Sit Down podcast, now more of my conversation with Jim Gaffigan. The thing about going through the pandemic, and writing just commentaries, this will never be used, is that there is something, you know,

there's so many heavy news angles that we've lived with over the past year. And then there's some kind of human angles that are equally heavy. But then there's also kind of, I'm sick of my family, or I'm tired, of doing laundry every day

or my kids somehow can't join a Zoom but they can play video games all day and so those observations which it'll be interesting if they will be relevant after

this right because I think that you know I do these commentaries but I think that if you look at the Spanish flu which there is a certain part of the Spanish flu where a lot of people died from it.

A lot of people. It devastated people. And it wasn't really even covered in history books. You know, it's like the impeachment of Belknap came up more than the Spanish flu. And so what that leads me to believe is that when this is over, people aren't going to want to talk about it.

we're going to want this, and I don't know, I could be wrong, but there is a certain part. That's why these little tidbits on social media or these commentaries are, I think they resonate because, yeah, you know, buying online groceries, as much of a luxury that is, it's kind of annoying. Do you know what I mean? And it is that little observation of that,

is rewarding for people. So does that mean when you come back in August, obviously you have to acknowledge it, but it's not going to be the whole act. It's going to be a reference point. Yeah. But similar to as New Yorkers, April of 2020 was a devastating month for everyone in New York City

or anyone who has, you know, knows health care workers. And but there is like, do we want to bring that up? Yeah, and a sincere in conversation, but if we're getting ready to laugh, I don't know, remember that terrifying moment in April when we were like,

we got to wipe down our groceries? It's like, is that funny? I don't know. It's like, it's kind of heavy. And so it's, you know, all topics are fair game, but I'm just saying that culturally, we might want to move on, even though like, even the term move on.

It's loaded. Right, right. No, we'll be, yeah, you don't want to wallow in the misery of it. But there are, as you say, elements of it that you... Yeah, and it's going to be a reference point. It's going to be a reference point and it's, you know, it's going to be, it's loaded. Like, we even forgot that there was this, you know, in April, there were a lot of people that didn't believe it was raped.

Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? It's like... So it was the flu. Yeah. It was the flu. Yeah. Well, whenever you start working again and remember how to do stand-up, I'm sure it's

going to be great. Well, let's hope so. Thanks, buddy. Thank you. Thank you. My big thanks to one of the all-time great guys, Jim Gaffigan, for a great conversation and for the excellent cross-country ski lessons. I almost enjoyed it.

Jim's latest comedy special, The Pale Tourist. is streaming now on Amazon Prime, and if things go as planned, he will be back on tour later this year. My big thanks, as always, to all of you for tuning in this week. If you want to hear more of the conversations with my guests every Sunday, be sure to click subscribe so you never miss an episode. And, of course, don't forget to tune in to Sunday today, every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit Down podcast.