Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - John Legend (September 2022)

Episode Date: June 11, 2023

John Legend's famous voice first began to draw a crowd when he sang in his church choir in Springfield, Ohio. After graduating with honors from the Ivy League's University of Pennsylvania, Legend kept a steady day-job while pursuing his dream in music. His debut 2004 album Get Lifted won three Grammy awards, including one for Best New Artist. Since then, he has won nine more Grammys, adding two Emmys, a Tony and an Oscar. In this week's "Sunday Sitdown," Willie Geist and Legend got together in New York to talk about his latest album and much more. (Original broadcast date September 25, 2022)  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks as always for clicking and listening along. I will keep my introduction brief this morning because this man needs no introduction. He is, spell it out with me, Egot. Emmy, Grammy, Oscar, and Tony winner, John Legend. So, without further ado, ladies and gentlemen, John Legend right now on the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Thanks for doing this, John. My pleasure. Thanks for having me back. Great to see you.

I think the last time we did it, we were Zooming. We were Zooming. During the pandemic. That was Bigger Love, a couple years back. Bigger love, and now we're here in person in New York. It's great to be here. I can't believe it's been that long. And to be sitting with you on Album Day. Yes. Which is a big deal. It's a big deal. It's a big day.

What does Album Day feel like? You've put so much into this years and years of writing and work and everything, and now the world has it. I'm truly excited. I think it's similar to being a kid on Christmas where you're, like, anticipating and waiting. for, you know, what you hope will be a really good day. And it's not really about whether or not it's commercially this or that. I just want people to have the music because I've been working on it for so long. I want them to love it. And I want to feel like that joy that there's a connection between what I created

and what people feel from what I created. So I'm excited to have that feeling. And you were such a creative. I can only imagine you pent up at home the last couple of years, just writing songs and putting music to it. Well, that was the good side of not being able to tour, so we had time to write a lot. That's why I ended up making a double album. I was just so creative and productive and prolific during this time that I had a lot of material to choose from.

And this is a very narrowed down version of what we wrote because we wrote about 80 or 90 songs. Did you really? And we've put out 24 of them. So, yeah, we were so productive and wrote so much during that time. And I've been waiting to give it to the world and here we are. So when you sit down, John, to do an album, is it different every time? Bigger love, maybe you had one sort of theme in mind and this time something different? Well, part of the choices I make beforehand are like who I want to work with.

Sometimes it's a little more free-flowing and, you know, you never know who you're going to end up in the room with. But a lot of it's planned out at first, but you don't know what that collaboration is going to create. You just kind of, you know people that you like and that you might be interested in working with. Sometimes it's people you work with before. sometimes you want to spice things up and change things up. This is the first time it was executive produced by Ryan Tedder. My last two albums were executive

produced by Raphael Sadiq. So it was a choice to work with Ryan. I had written with him before, but we had never done this much work together. And it was so much fun working with him. And then we brought in all kinds of amazing creatives, amazing co-writers, amazing producers, amazing guest vocalists.

And it just evolves as you go. And you try something, and it might not work, and then you try something else. It might not work, but when you hit things that really work and they land, then you're like, I want to do more of that. And it just starts to build. And eventually, you've got an album. Yeah, and you've got sort of this dream lineup of collaborations in some of the songs.

Yes. You come out hot with Rick Ross. Rick Ross on track one. And I've collaborated with him more on duets than any other artists. We've done a bunch on his albums. We've done two on my albums. and then we've done a few with DJ Khalid and French Montana and various other artists. So we work well together.

His voice and my voice, the kind of beats we like to do together, it really works well. But we've also got Jasmine Sullivan, Jid, Suidi, Jenei Iko, Tide Allers-Sign, Lettysi, Rhapsody, just some really talented, amazing people, and a lot of people behind the scenes that aren't featured as well. The album is called. It's called Legend. Legend. Yes. We're finally just saying it.

Yeah. You finally go in there. Well, I figured it's my way of making a self-titled album. I put so much of myself into it. It's kind of wide-ranging. It's a double album. It really is a confluence of all my different influences and inspirations. And I was like, this is me.

This is a full version of who I am in my life right now. And I'm just going to call it legend. Have you resisted that in the past? I don't think your name's been an album or song. I never thought to do it before. And, you know, I haven't used it in a song. a bunch of titles, but, you know, every headline writer is like, you know, it's too tempting not to use it. Legend in the making, live in legend, legend by name, legend by nature, as they say in the UK.

So people have used it many times, but I've never really used it as a title until right now. I think people watching should know. You did not anoint yourself. John Legend. I did not. This was from guys in the studio, like 20 years ago. Yeah, like 20 years ago, the first guy to call me that was a spoken word artist named Jay Ivy. and he's from Chicago and I met him when we were working on Kanye's college dropout together and he started calling me that

and it kind of evolved into a stage name and I was hesitant to take it on as a stage name because come on, I didn't even have a record deal yet. How could I call myself a legend? And then, you know, I was like, I'm going to take this on

because I'm not going to go into my career with this fear that it's not going to work out. I'm going to go into it with this belief that I'm going to make it work and I'm going to try to live up to this name And that's what I've been trying to do for a couple decades now. It's worked. I mean, it was pretty audacious, but it worked.

It's working out. Yeah. So you got down to 24 songs from 80 or 90, you said. When you write 90 songs, how do you even decide what the 24 are going to be? And will the other ones end up somewhere? Well, when I've made albums in the past, I've usually written like 40 or 50 at least for a single album. So for this double album, we wrote a bit more. But, yeah, there's a bunch of tracks that may never get heard.

I don't know. maybe they'll release them after I die like Tupac. I don't know. But I like to write a lot and I like to collaborate a lot. And then I try to really focus in on which songs really move me, the ones that feel necessary, the ones that I feel like will move other people. And I try to make it so there's no filler. You know, that's a matter of opinion.

But I think I made legend with no filler. Yes, no skips. No skips. Listen to it right through. Right through, absolutely. Yes. And so, John, when you use it, you. sit down to write a song, what is the process like for you? At the piano first, or with a pen

in your hand first? Sometimes. So sometimes I'm at the piano first. Usually the music comes first. And usually I'm either writing by myself or writing with two or three other people. And we'll start and figure out some music. We might figure out a groove, a beat. Sometimes a producer will come in with beats that are already started. And if something inspires us, then we'll start working on it. And the next thing I do is I'll start mumbling. things that don't make sense into the mic. So I call it a mumble track, but it's a melody and a rhythm, but no lyric yet.

So for ordinary people, it's just, so I'll start a song like that. It'll sound like nonsense, but it'll have a melody. And you'll recognize the melody later when the song is done. And I have recordings of all the mumbles that I've done for new songs.

That's your next album. That's my next album, just mumbling. But yeah, so every song starts like that, and then eventually I figure out what the theme of the song is, what it feels like, what emotion I'm exploring, and then build the lyric around that. When you do an album, do you think, okay, my first album was this, my next one with this, is your eighth studio album. Do you think of it as a big sort of spectrum of your work, or do you just say, I want to put out

the best music this time I can't? I start just thinking, I want to make great music, and I want this to be better than what I did last time. And honestly, I want every album to be the best album. So when I'm working on legend, I'm thinking, this has got to be my best album ever. And I go into every project like that, and I go into it thinking I have to prove myself every time too, because I don't feel like I'm guaranteed success. I don't feel like I'm guaranteed that people will love it. So I go into it thinking I have to prove to them that is worthy of their attention, worthy of their love, and worthy of them coming back to it.

And so that's my motivation every time. Listening to the album and looking at the track list, some of the artists aren't household names that you collaborate with. They're incredibly talented. And I thought, in some of these cases, this is John lifting up someone. He sees promise in the way you were lifted up

when you were young. Absolutely. And artists did that for me at the beginning of my career, and it meant a lot to me. And I think I also like working with newer artists because they have a way of helping you refresh yourself and keeping you connected to what's next rather than just kind of stuck with where you were before. And, you know, I'm in my 40s now.

I've been making records for two decades. And I think it's good for me to bring new energy into my life and into my creative process. I think I know the answer to this. Does Chrissy have a favorite song on the new album? I'm not sure which one it is, but I think it's Stardust. Oh, it's Stardust. Yes, Stardust, which is on Act 2.

She's had a long time with that song, and it was, we wrote it very early on in the process, and it was as we were going through a really tough period in our family. We had lost a baby recently, and it was just a tough time for us. And that song was very healing and very inspiring for her and for us as a family. And I think that will always be her favorite. So it's not the song that you wrote for her about the way you had to grow. That's not the only one I wrote for her.

I just happened to bring that one up recently. We've got a few. But yes, that one too. She likes that one. That's a beautiful song. That was called Splash. Yes. It's a sexy song.

A lot of my songs are about sex. A few of that. They are. They are. But some about love. Yes, about love. Some of them about commitment. Some of them are about going through challenges together.

Just the gamut of what it means to be in a relationship with somebody that's deep and lasting. Well, that's the song I was thinking of, which is where it's sort of this, this, this, title is sort of a twist. But what you're saying is, we're growing differently together, and the more we grow, the more I actually fall in love with you. Yeah, the song's called I Don't Love You

Like I Used to. And when Chrissy heard the title, she was like, what? Why are you writing a breakup song? But it's the opposite of a breakup song. It's saying, you know, when you are in a long relationship, when you go through challenges together,

when you see all the different sides of that person, you actually can grow to love them more because it's been fortified, by more real life, you know. It's not just the original infatuation, the original lust, the original attraction that you had for that person. It's so much more than that.

And that's what the song's about. I think it's a good, like, anniversary song for people. Because as you grow and your commitment deepens with somebody, you have kids together, all these things, your love grows too. That's true. Yeah. I like the idea she read it and said,

are you breaking up with you in the new album? This is how you're telling me? Now, you've already had the chance to play some of these songs live in Vegas at your residency. Yeah, so we've been at Planet Hollywood, and we've played in April and May, and then in August, and then we're going back in October, and we've been previewing the album. We've done Splash, we've done dope, and we've done all she want to do. And I just love seeing the reaction. I just love seeing the reaction when people hear the new songs and they see them live without having heard them on a record yet.

And it's been a lot of fun, kind of market testing them in Vegas. And which are those are the crowd pleasers? Well, all you want to do is like it's the best one live because the energy just elevates in the room. Everybody gets up and starts dancing. And for a song to do that well without anyone even knowing it when I'm playing it, it's pretty amazing. Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Stick around to hear more from John Legend right after the break. Welcome back now more of my conversation with John Legend.

You've been home writing songs, as you said, for a couple of years. What was it like to get out in front of that crowd again in Vegas and just feel that energy back finally? Well, my Vegas show is like no other show I've done before. We have dancers, we have feathers, we have the full Vegas glitz and glamour. But we also really wanted to take care to explore my entire career, my entire journey, my entire story. So it's a really autobiographical show. And we talk about me growing up in the church. We talk about my grandmother and her influence in my life.

We talk about some of those records where I was featured on when people didn't really know who I was like you talked about. We talk about all that stuff. And I love doing the whole show because it really sums up my career so far in a really great way. And it's a blast. With that autobiographical piece of it, when was the first moment, John, when somebody said, this guy can sing. Do you remember what age that was? Was it in church? I was in church. I was probably seven or eight. I was singing in the church choir. I had begged my mother and my grandmother to let me sing in the church choir. They were in charge. My mom directed the choir. My grandmother

played the organ. And so they were in charge of the choir, but I was a little too young to be in the choir for a while. But I kept begging, and I'd be at rehearsal all the time with my mom. So eventually they let me join. And probably by the time I was eight or nine, I got to solo in the choir, and I felt like I was on top of the world. And when you feel that energy from the crowd, it's very addictive. You want it again, and I think that's why I'm here today, is because I enjoyed that feeling that I felt early on, and I wanted to keep feeling it. So from that moment, did you think I'm going to be a professional musician?

Was it inconceivable to you? That was a job. I had no idea what that entailed. Right. You know, I would watch Star Search. I would watch the Grammys, and I would see, you know, these young artists on Star search, you know, auditioning and competing. And I was like, I could do that. And then I would watch the Grammys, and that would be the pinnacle. You'd see, you know, Michael or Stevie or Luther. And you'd be

like, I want to be up there where they are. And yeah, I always wanted that. And I had no idea what it would take, but I just kept making music. I was taking piano lessons, singing in the church choir, singing at school. Whenever somebody would give me the mic, I would find a way to sing. It must be crazy for you to be in an arena or in Vegas with a sold-out crowd and think, I was nine years old singing in a church. Yeah. How did I get here? I tell that story during my show because I'm truly grateful and I feel like this truly is a dream

come true that I'm doing what I'm doing. You've made the most of it. Absolutely. I'm loving. You had a good backup plan. You went to an Ivy League university. I did. I went to Ivy League school.

I was a management consultant for three years. I know. And that was different, a different preparation for being. being an artist than most have. But, you know, I knew that I wanted to do this. And I was living here in New York. I was working here. You want me to wait?

Yeah. This is a man who knows television. That was a nice moment. Yeah, this is a professional, ladies and gentlemen. You didn't even need me here. They're taking their time reversing. Oh, it's always something. Firetruck.

Welcome to New York. Yes. Okay. Yeah, so in the middle of my show, I usually tell a story about, you know, the fact that this is my dream come true. I'm living my dream, and I feel so grateful. And every time I'm on that stage, I don't take it for granted.

I get to do what I love to do every single day. I get to write songs and perform them for people. I get to feel that connection with the audience, feel their energy. It's amazing. A lot of people talk about your break is coming with Kanye, but I was going back reading. And I didn't realize you play piano on everything is everything.

Yes. So that was my first. So Lauren Hill, while you're still in college. Yeah, so Lauren Hill, she's making the miseducation of Lauren Hill in 1998. I was a junior in college. And I, on the weekends, would drive up from Philadelphia to Scranton, which is where the president's from. So I would drive up a couple hours to Scranton. And I was working at a church there.

I would direct the choir, and I would play keyboard for the church. And one of my choir members grew up with Lauren Hill. and was helping her with the new album, which was her solo debut in its education. And she would drive back and forth to Jersey sometimes to work on the album with her. And she invited me to go with her one time. So I go with her.

We go to outside of Newark in the studio where Lauren's working. And they're working on a new song, and I'm down there just hanging out. And eventually my friend says, Johnny, why don't you play a couple songs for Lauren? She should hear what you can do. So I sit at the piano, play a couple songs, and then Ms. Hill says, why don't you play on this song we're working on right now?

I played on the song, and it was Everything is Everything. And that was the first time I was ever part of a major record. And so I didn't know that the song was going to make the album. I didn't know that my part was going to make the song. But in the late summer, as the album was about to come out, Lauren's A&R person calls me up and asked me how to spell my name for the credits. And so I'm like, okay, I'm on the album. And then I go back to school and tell everybody I'm on track 13 of their favorite album,

which everyone was playing. Yes. It was in every dorm room, every apartment. Everybody was playing it, and I was a part of it. Little did you know it was going to become an iconic album. Yeah. You were there just trying out songs with it. And I eventually got signed to that same label that called me up to ask for the spelling of my name.

I signed to Columbia as my record deal when I first got signed. You never know where that break's going to come from, do you? Absolutely. Same goes with Kanye, I know. Yeah. Kanye was not yet Kanye West. He was not very famous at the time. He was just starting to bubble up as a producer, and he was living in Chicago,

but then he moved to the New York area, and I was roommates with his cousin, and his cousin, Devon, and I went to Penn together. We were roommates in New York together, and Devon says, I've got a cousin moving here from Chicago. He just started working with Rockefeller. He's a really good producer.

And he's also rapping as well. So, you know, you should meet up, connect, work together. So we invited him to my show at Jimmy's Uptown in Harlem. And I played the show, and then I met Kanye after the show. And eventually a few months later, we started writing together. He would help me with my demo, which eventually became Get Lifted. And then I would sing and play keys and write with him on his demo, which eventually became the college dropout.

It's so cool to think about. Kanye is living in an apartment in Newark. Just writing songs. There was that documentary that shows him working out. Jesus walks. Absolutely. And so I was going in there to write with them and sing with them. And then he was helping me work on my new music too.

And then eventually I signed with his production company Good Music. And we made it lifted together and a bunch of other albums after that. And man, you started off with a bang. Your first album, it's eight Grammy nominations, wins three of them. Yes. What was that moment like for you? Because album one, you're here. You've arrived.

It was surreal. And, you know, I didn't have any expectations. that it was going to do that well. But that year leading up to it, we started to see more and more growth. The album came out. It wasn't a huge hit at the beginning, but ordinary people started to really blow up,

and that was the signature song from the album, and it really connected with a lot of people. And by the time the Grammy nominations were happening, it's the end of that year where the album's been out for nearly a year. And early December, I show up at the nominations and find out I have eight nominations.

And I'm tied with Mariah on her emancipation, which was like her big comeback album. And Kanye on his second album. And we all have eight nominations, and I'm nominated for Best New Artist and Best R&B album and a few other awards. And it was surreal, truly surreal. Truly, like, all my dreams were coming true.

And it really just set me up for the rest of my career because once you get that Best New Artist and you get that Grammy, you know, seal of approval, it kind of opens more doors and makes more things possible. And I've been trying to make the most of it since then. Does it feel good to you, John, that at a wedding somewhere this weekend, somebody's going to be playing their song? Yes.

Playing your song and have their first dance to that or people, they love each other because of the music you put on. Does that feel good? And it's cool because now, because of social media, we're able to see it because they usually will post a video from their wedding. And so I've been seeing people. dancing to all of me and stay with you and so high throughout all these years. And now we've got a few more songs that I think might be good wedding songs too.

So I always love being a part of people's celebrations. And it means a lot to me that they would include me because, you know, we sit in these rooms and create these songs and you never know what's going to happen with them. But when you find out that they mean that much to so many people, it's a beautiful thing. I interviewed Ed Shearer in a couple of months ago. And he said, I'm starting to think people only invite me to wedding. so I'll get up and sing. Oh, yeah.

You too? Oh, yeah. For years. My sense is, you know, if I'm going to someone's wedding, it's because I really care about them and want to be there for them. So a lot of times I will end up singing if I'm rested and I'm not too drunk. But you know it's coming. You can see it coming, right?

They want you to get on a piano. Oh, it just happens to be a piano over here. magical. Who knew? What a coincidence. I knew you were going to be a victim of that, too. Stick around for more of my conversation with John Legend right after a quick break. Welcome back now the rest of my conversation with John Legend. So you, of course, have the famous love songs, but you've also spoken so much about our society and justice and all those themes that are important to you in music and outside of music. How crucial is that to you to sort of be a voice?

for those things, especially in this time? Well, I've always thought that that's what it meant to be an artist, because a lot of my favorite artists over the years, like Stevie Wonder, like Marvin Gay, like Nina Simone, like Aretha Franklin, they not only would write songs or perform songs that were inspirations for movement, but they would also, behind the scenes, be funding protests, funding organizations who were fighting for justice.

And I just always believed that part of my role as an artist, particularly a black artist in America, I always feel like we have a responsibility to not just rest on our laurels, not just be in it for our own success and our own money, but to look out for our people and speak out on behalf of justice and equality. And, you know, America achieving the ideals that we've established as our ideals as a country that we've yet to reach. but I want to advocate for us getting there. What do you think music can do to that end? I'm thinking about a song like Glory, which number one is a great song,

so it draws you in, but then the message gets through to people while they're tapping their feet. Well, I'm never sure how impactful a song is because I think there's so much more that goes into change. It's organizing, it's getting people's attention in the right way, it's using whatever moral persuasion you can use to get people to come to your side of thinking. But I think music, one, is inspired by the movement, inspired by people out there being activist.

When we wrote Glory, we were writing it inspired by Dr. King. We were also writing it inspired by the people who were protesting in Ferguson at that time. And so we included lyrics that alluded to both time periods. And once we wrote the song, having been inspired by those activists, then we saw people turn around and march with our song. And so it's kind of a perfect illustration of how that feedback loop keeps going between the artist community and the activist community. We're inspired by them.

They're inspired by us, and it keeps it going. And it's a constant struggle. In our culture, it's maybe two steps forward, one step back. Yeah. And I think the past couple years have been defined by a decent amount of backlash. I think Trump was a backlash to a. I think you've seen the backlash recently to the George Floyd protest with all the anti-CRT and all this other stuff that you've seen.

And so there's always been a backlash, whether it was the Civil War and Reconstruction. You saw the backlash to that. And Jim Crow kind of lasted for decades as a backlash to the advances that we made right after the Civil War. So America's history has been progress and backlash. And all that means is that we can't rest. We have to keep fighting and keep pushing toward a more perfect union and more just country. Things have felt pretty bleak at times over the last several years.

I deal with it every morning on TV all day. What gives you hope, John, for America right now? Well, I think we have to celebrate all of our wins. Each time we are able to accomplish something, a lot of times my organization, Free America is fighting for legislative change, like we fought for Amendment 4 in Florida. And that enfranchised, re-enfranchised like a million people in the state. And when you have a victory like that, it's good to celebrate it. It's good to celebrate these wins.

And I think those wins are the fuel that we need for more hope to keep fighting, for more change and to achieve the goals that we really want. Progress begets progress. Yes, absolutely. And I think you need that progress to fill that hope and that hope is the fuel you need to keep going. Yeah. People need your music more than anything. That gets them through some of these long days. I hope so. I hope it helps. Got to ask you about the voice? Yes. Season seven? Season seven for me and season 22 for the show. Yes. And we're having a great time. We've got Camila Cabello as our newest coach. And she's doing a bang-up job. She's very tough competition already. And then of course, Blake and Gwen, our favorite newly married couple. We're having a great time. How great a gig is that, be honest?

Honestly, it's a great gig. And what I love about it is, one, I live in Los Angeles and getting to film in Los Angeles instead of being on the road so much is really nice as a family man, being close to my kids, being able to take them to school before I go to work. All of that is great. And I genuinely love working with our artists. They're inspiring. They're hungry.

They have so much to offer the world. And you just want to help them be the best artist they can be. and that opportunity is so much fun. And my fellow coaches are a lot of fun too. Right. They make me laugh. We have a good time together. It's a good group.

Yes. It's a good group. You mentioned a minute ago, Chrissy, pregnant again. Yes. Very exciting. Very exciting. Congratulations to you. We're excited.

And, you know, it's always a bit of cautious optimism, especially when you've lost one before. But we really feel excited. We're looking forward to this new joy in our lives. Our kids are excited, too. They're getting ready. and yeah, we're all excited. Yeah, I mean, especially given where you guys have come

in the last couple of years, this must feel all the sweeter. Yeah, it feels really good, and it feels like we learned so much over the years through struggle and through the challenges that we face, and I think we've both grown so much. Chrissy especially has grown a lot in the past few years, and we're ready. We're ready for a new baby in our lives.

Before I let you go, John, I'm lining up all the things you do and wondering how you do them. I'm looking at you're going to go out in tour, you get the Vegas residency, you've got the voice, the new album, you're going to be out promoting it. How do you sort of allocate your time

because you're there with your kids, you're there with Chrissy? How do you put it all together? Honestly, most of my life is still focused on writing songs and performing. And I, you know, during this couple weeks, I'm going to do a lot of promotion and a lot of interviews, but I try to focus really on the art,

on the creativity, and on my family. And those are my main focuses. Everything else is important, but I also have really great people helping me with them. So I have a team that works with me on my philanthropy, and they do a lot of the hard work, the heavy lifting, and I come in when I need to. My team that helps me make my wine and distributes it around the world, like they're all working hard to get it in stores and do all the things. And I come in when I need to come in. So I think having a great team, delegating the work that they're really good at, to them and then coming in when I need to

is probably the secret. And I stay focused on art. I stay focused on being a creative and making music for a living. That's what allows for everything else. Absolutely. You know you've made it when you have your own wine. I love making wine. I honestly do. And I enjoy the process of making it, blending in, all of that. And then having it out in the world and being able to give it to my friends and serve it at our parties. It's like, it's really nice.

I bet. Congratulations on the album. People are going to love it. It's so good to see you, man. Good to see you, Willie. Thanks, John. Thank you. My big thanks again to John for a great conversation, not only one of the most talented people you'll ever meet,

but truly one of the best guys you'll ever meet. Do go check out his new album. It is called Legend. And my thanks to all of you for listening again this week. If you want more of my conversations with our guests every week, be sure to click follow so you never miss an episode. And don't forget to tune in to Sunday today every weekend on NBC. see. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on Sunday Sit Down Podcast.