Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Jon Hamm

Episode Date: May 22, 2022

For seven seasons, Jon Hamm played the hard-drinking, womanizing, 1960’s-era advertising executive Don Draper on the hit series Mad Men, a role that earned him two Golden Globe awards and an Emmy. In this week’s “Sunday Sitdown,” Willie Geist gets together with the actor to talk about the legacy of that show and his steady mix of comedy and drama since then, all leading up to his childhood fantasy of starring in the highly anticipated new Top Gun sequel alongside Tom Cruise.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks as always for clicking and listening along. I am very excited to bring you today my conversation with one of the all-time great guys. You know him, you love them. From the groundbreaking series Mad Men, where he starred as Don Draper. And now you're going to know him and love him even a little bit more, starring in the new film Top Gun Maverick. He is, of course, John Ham.

John and I kind of dorked out a little bit about the fact that he's in Top Gun. He was 15 years old when the original came out in 1986, of course, starring Tom Cruise as Maverick. And now, 36 years later, here he is starring across from Tom Cruise in the movie he grew up loving. He plays a commanding officer named Cyclone, who, you know, butts heads a little bit with Maverick, who it turns out all these years later, still a bit of a Maverick. The movie's really, really good. I think people are going to love it. It touches that nostalgia in the right way,

but it's also modern, incredible flying scenes, a great mission. It's all there. John Hamm is great in it. If you're thinking about going to do it, just do it. It's so good. It's going to be the movie of the summer, and John Hamm is one of the stars. He's also doing something that I didn't even know he was doing,

so I started reading up on him. He is starring in a new version of the Fletch movies. Again, going back to the 80s, those Chevy Chase classics now, updating it all these years later, just like Top Gun. It's called Confess Fletch, and that'll be coming out soon. We talk a bit about that, and of course, about the legacy of Don Draper, the legacy now seven years after it went off the air of Mad Men, one of the all-time great shows, and he's got a little distance from it and talking about the impact on his life and his career. I should tell you, we are outdoors, high atop Times Square at the Knickerbocker Hotel. They have a rooftop bar. They're a very

cool spot if you're ever in town. So you'll hear some New York City. You hear some honkin and sirens and all the rest of the things that come with being in New York. But I think you're really going to enjoy the conversation right now on the Sunday Sit Down podcast with John Ham. Well, it's good to see you, John. It's going to be here. I saw the movie last week. And so I don't know if I can put into words how much I loved it. And part of it is because it's a great movie on its own. And part of it is because I was going into sixth grade when I was, the original came out. Okay.

And it was so formative for so many of us. I think you included. Yeah, I think I was probably around eighth grade, but yeah. Yeah, yeah. And so it all came rushing back in the best way. I'm telling you. I think the way I've described the movie like this, it perfectly rides the line between the newness of it and its originality and nostalgia.

It's perfect. It's got both of those things. It's a great news story. It's a continuation of the story of Maverick and all the... Iceman and all the people that we've known throughout seeing the first film. And then it's this this throwback again to making you feel like you were when you were in sixth grade or eighth grade or whatever it was, the 80s. And by the way, it starts with the opening credits of the movie.

There's a piece of music that comes in and I was like, it drops you right back into it. Yeah, for sure. It's incredible. So given your experience with the movie, given the experience we all had with the movie, when they call you about this, does it blow your mind to even consider the possibility of the... I just remember thinking, like, if my eighth grade self could talk to my now self,

both of us would not be computing that this is happening. So it was a no-brainer for me. I was just like, are you kidding? Yes, I don't know. I don't care what the part is. I would just, I would be in craft service on this thing if I could. But, you know, then I got like a cool call. sign and it's like you know I they put me in the wardrobe I was like are you kidding me like

this is amazing I can't believe I get to do this like I'm literally on an aircraft carrier saluting Tom Cruise like this is this is not happening so it was it was it was a tremendous delight to to to make and and it's I cannot wait for people to see the film so your cyclone that's the call sign you're referring to it's my call sign so describe a little bit for the audience who your character is how he fits into the story I'm the air boss of the sort of, what's the right way to say it, the gang. So I'm in charge. And like most people that runs into Pete Maverick Mitchell,

don't love the way he comports himself. And it's sort of, it's mystifying to somebody like my character looking at this guy's career and saying, like, what's, why aren't you running things? you should be me. You should be, you know, in a leadership position. And yet here you are still a captain. You're still, you know, flying test missions and all of these other things. And, you know, Tom's got a great line.

He says, you know, I think I'm exactly where I need to be. And that pretty much sets the stage and tells you everything you need to know about our relationship. But it was great. I mean, to be able to be in those scenes with Tom Cruise is a, you know, It's a lifelong dream, for real. You play it well, you've got the square jaw, and you have that good vibe of, I don't like you, but I need you up there. Exactly, exactly.

And there's so much of that that's baked into not only the story, but just the character of Maverick. I mean, it's right there in his name. He's the Maverick, and you, you don't like him, but you want, you need it. And he's exactly that. And as the movie plays out, you see how that comes to bear fruit. Talking about Tom Cruise and Maverick, I think part of why this works so well is because he is still Maverick. It hasn't been five years or ten years.

It's been 32 years since the original movie. He looks great. He's in shape. He still carries it. What was it like to be on set with him as sort of the leader? I'll never forget my first day on set. Like, I walked on to set. We're at North Island Naval Base in Coronado, San Diego.

I'm looking around, it's basically a temple two top gun. There's a two-story American flag for the set. Everybody's in, you know, gear. And I walk on the set, and there's Tom Cruise, and he just looks at me and he's, hey, comes up, gives me a big hug. It's so good to have you here. We're so excited. I was like, are you kidding me?

This is insane. And I just remember thinking I said to him at some point During that day That first day I was like This has to be like an out of body experience for you You are in the same wardrobe On the same set

And it's 30 years later Like what is You were 25 or whatever he was When he was making that movie the first time I was like He goes I feel like I'm at home I was like ah

Of course you do And he is that guy Isn't he I mean you've talked about him of sets the tone for the set. Here's how hard we're going to work. Here's when we're going to work. First guy in, last guy out.

He is the, he is the, everything you want him to be, he is. And he knows it. He knows he has to be. And so he's never late. He's never in a bad mood. He's happy to be there. He's happy to make movies. He's a movie star.

And he's one of the few that we have left. I mean, he is, he is as advertised, as I would say. You got to stay on solid ground for your role. Yes, I did. But my God, some of the fighter playing scenes. And Tom says, we had to test all these actors and make sure they could pull 8Gs. There's no real camera trick. There's a little, of course, but they're flying in those planes.

You're seeing what you see. It's not, that's no joke. That's no CGI. It's real. And those guys and girls all had to go through pretty much fighter pilot training. You know, they're in G suits. They're experiencing G-lock loss of consciousness from, you know, basically you're pulling so much gravity that the blood is going out of your head. Literally.

That's literally what happens. And you see it on screen. Like, you see their faces, like, moving in that way. And it's, it is a, it's exciting. Your pulse immediately starts ramping up when you see it. And it's because it's real. And if you had a chance to sit and watch the movie? Yeah, I've seen the whole film.

And your reaction was what? I literally, like we were talking about it a little earlier off camera, but I got Misty. You know, I definitely was reminded of like being that young kid watching that first one. There's a couple things I won't spoil, but there's some characters we've seen before that come back and remind you that like, wow, that these characters and these relationships are, seemingly ongoing since we left off in 1985. And then I was just blown away by the storytelling and how it's told. The camera work and the action sequences are unbelievable, and I'm just happy to be a part of it.

At the risk of getting existential about it, because I felt the same way you did, I felt nifty and thinking about people and all that. There is something about 32 years later, these things, a lot of change in all of our lives, but some of these things are still in place. You know what I mean? Yeah, for sure.

Okay, there's Maverick and there's all these other characters that you're alluding to. And it feels good to see it. Yeah, it does. There's something very comfortable about that. And I think we've all had, you know, a very interesting last couple of years, too, of uncertainty and things feeling like,

what's normal, what's real, what's, and then something like this happens. This is an actual big, time movie. It's not a streamer. It's not a this. It's not a binge. It's a movie. It's an event movie that are the kinds of things that we used to do when we were 13, 14, 15 years old. I remember my first experience with something like that. I certainly saw a top gun at least four times in the theater because you had to. You just wanted to do it again. And that's, I think, going to happen with this. I think people are going to see this and then immediately want to see it

again. There's also been a little bit of the waiting game for this, building up this anticipation. Tell me what. You shot this, I think, four years ago or something like that. We started shooting in 2018. The movie was finished in 2019. It was meant to come out in 2020. Obviously, the world, you know, stopped. And we had to put a pause on it. But the idea was, this needs to be seen big and loud and on a big screen and to blow your hair back. And that's the way it's going to be seen. And I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, challenge anybody to to not be blown away by the film. Hey guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast.

Stick around to hear more from John Hamm right after the break. Welcome back now more of my conversation with John Hamm. What was the first phone call back to St. Louis like to your buddies who saw the movie with you in 86 and you said, I'm going to be in the new Top Gun with Tom Cruise? Well, mostly, I think there was an announcement in, you know, whatever, in the press. So I got a lot of incoming calls of like, is this real? Are you in this movie? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Before I'd shot a frame, before I'd been on set, before I went a costume fitting, anything. Like, what's the deal? Well, I can't really talk about it, but yeah. It was pretty, it was pretty across the board, you know, full-blown excitement. And I'm still to this, you know, every time a trailer drops or anything comes out, I can't wait to see this movie. I can't wait to see this movie. Literally, I got an email from a friend of mine who lives, the younger brother of a kid I went to play baseball with and went to high school with. Who like bought a T-shirt?

He's like, ready to go. This is a grown man, by the way. This is a 40-year-old man. Sure. Yeah. Bought a T-shirt and is ready to go. there's going to be a lot of that you got to get ready i know nostalgia is a powerful drug certainly is character of mine once said that yes he did did um have you given any consideration

i was telling you my 12 year old son is very excited about this and watch the old one have you thought about like oh this is going to be a movie for those kids the way it was for us yeah this sort of extension of this sure i mean it's like we were talking about it's there's a to certain films that makes them sort of blockbusters, right? So there's, this is one of those things. This is one of those movies that it's not an Academy Award movie, it's not a prestige movie, this is a blockbuster. And it's for kids of a certain age, it will be, you know, kind of,

it will be memorable in a way that will be, you know, super specific, but also just mind-blowing for them. And I think, you know, it's hard for you. It's hard for me to soft pedal it. I can't. It's just, it is what it is. It's going to be awesome. And that's how it's designed.

It's meant to be awesome. And, yeah, I just can't wait for people to see it. It's amazing how ingrained that movie. The first movie is when I was watching it back with my son the other night, I knew every frame almost that was coming. Despite the fact I haven't seen it in years, every pull of a cigar, every line, every cut of music, just kind of becomes a part of the conscience.

Yeah, Tony Scott did an amazing thing with that first film. Like, every shot is sunsets. Everything, you know, it doesn't make any sense. It's like, you know, how is it always sunset? Like, wait, does the sun never move? No. But just the vocabulary of it, all the guys in the helmets that are doing all the things, that are launching the planes and all the stuff.

And it's so redolent of that first film, this one that we did, and Joe Kazanke, who directed. directed it is does, again, strikes the exact balance of homage to Tony's, you know, kind of vocabulary visually and stuff. There's there's the music cues that you mentioned, all of that stuff. And yet it's, it's so of, you know, 20, 20, 2021, 2022 now, of the now that it has its own life and it's, it's just great. It's, it's amazing. There's a couple scenes in like the pilot bar that they rebuilt this they built it out of from scratch this bar it looks like it's been there for a hundred years but they built it from scratch so much so that the navy was like

can we keep this it's a good bar it's great yeah right on the beach yeah nothing works there's no there's no water running water anything we're there can we keep this sure connect it up yeah and less sweaty than the original there's a little less sweaty a little marginally less sweaty there was definitely a lot of there was a lot of sweat wranglers we had you know everybody had to be tan and everyone had to be sweaty, that's for sure. Now, how did you avoid the beach scene, the shirtless football game? Oh, I don't, nobody wants to see that. Thank God. I didn't have to, you, watching the, watching the young kids working out for about two, two and a half weeks before that, I was like, enjoy. I'm going to go get dinner. I'll be in my uniform. Yeah, I'll be in my

uniform and sunglasses. Well, congrats, man. It's such, such a good film. Thank you. People are going to absolutely love it of whether you're 12 or our age or older. It is for all ages. It's so good, as they say. I do want to ask you about Fletch. Yes. Confess Fletch. I was doing the research and I said, is this the same Fletch as I grew up with?

And the answer is yes. Yes and no. How did this come about? It's, uh, well, Gregory MacDonald wrote about 12 books throughout the 70s and 80s, uh,

starring our man Fletch. And as you and I both know and anybody that grew up in the 80s knows, Chevy's version of Fletch became very popular. and iconic if you'll use, if I can overuse that word again. And yet there are these other stories. And so it's been threatened to be rebooted for years and years and years. And finally, Miramax, who had the rights, said, we're doing this. Do you want to do this?

And I said, yes, I do. I really do. And of course, the danger of doing anything like that, rebooting anything like that. rebooting anything like that. It's like, okay, well, what are you going to do? Are you going to imitate Chevy? Right. Like, no, you can't. Chevy's Chevy. He'll always be, that version will always be his. So we had to really kind of, we approached it like a cover song. Like you think, okay, well, you're not going to play it exactly the same way. You have to kind of come up with your own

spin on it. And so that's what we did. And Greg Matola, who I've worked with on several projects, is a wonderful filmmaker and a good friend. And we decided, okay, well, we're going to take it in a little bit of a different way. We're going to get back to kind of the, what the books were, more of a straight kind of who done it, and really kind of lean into that, and less on the jokey wigs and teeth and funny voices and all that stuff, which is great, but is very much of Chevy's version. So we made a very cool, jazzy, interesting, more adult kind of version of it, and hopefully we'll get to make a lot more. We'll see what happens.

It's in sort of distribution people's hands now, and so we're going to wait to see who is going to release it. But I'm excited for people to see that, too, because my friend John Slattery's in it with me, Kyle McLaughlin, we've got a lot of Marshall Gay Hardin. We've got a lot of cool people in it. It's really funny, and it's really fun. It takes place in Boston,

then Rome. So it's kind of got, you know, it's got a little international flavor to it. We're hoping to be able to make a few more of those, too. I'm sure the first thing you have to do is get Chevy's version out of your head, right? Yeah, yeah. Because it's there for all of us. For sure. For sure. It's, you know, it's a different, it's a different take on it. So I'm hoping people get to see that as well coming up in the next year or so, and yeah, and then we'll make some more of them. I can't wait to see that either. You're on a roll, man. I'm doing what I can. You really are. You are. It does seem like post madmen everyone's got to see how funny you are which your friends have always known about you

is that a conscious thing of like 30 rock and kimmy and curb and all the i got really lucky i'll say this because you know obviously doing something like madman which is so serious and so specific um and i'll credit lorne michaels like he was he was the guy who said come do the show come do SNL. Come do it three times. Come do it, you know, whenever you want. And it was, that was the person that gave me the intro to Tina Fey on 30 Rock. And that was what got me Kimmy Schmidt and then, you know, introduced me to Larry David and that whole world. So I'm tremendously lucky to be able to play on both sides of the aisle. And, and, and I'm, yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I give all credit to Lauren Michaels for that.

Is it fun to step into those worlds? For sure. Show off. Like, you saw Don Draper? For sure. You saw all that stuff. But here I am this way. Well, and getting to meet and work with people like Kristen Wigg on Bridesmaids or Bill Hader on Barry or whatever.

You know, it's like there's so many phenomenally talented people that come through that building, you know, and to get a chance to work with them is great. I was watching you in Bridesmaids this morning where you go, I really want you to love. It's so good. That was a fun one. It's so good. I really want you to leave right now, but I don't want to see what you can take. Stick around for more of my conversation with John Hamm right after a quick break. Welcome back now to the rest of my conversation with John Hamm.

So Mad Men's been off the air for seven years now, I think. That's right. You've got some distance from it. Have you been able to process what a work? whirlwind that was and what an impact it had on your life? Yes, yeah, for sure. We just lost an All-Star in Bobby Morse this week. He, you know, working with him and kind of thinking back to what a career that that man had.

And the funny thing for me is like, I see Kiernan Shipka every now and again. And she's now 22 years old. And when I started working with her, she was six. So it's literally like that is marking the passage of time for me. It's like, okay, this person, she's going to get married. She's going to have kids like this crazy like whirlwind. I've known you since she was six. It's, you know, she played my daughter, but it feels like she is my daughter.

It's very strange. But yeah, getting getting that distance from it has been fun, honestly. Like it's fun to look back on that show and be reminded of what a great thing we made. I got a lovely text from a friend of mine. Andy Clark, also known as St. Vincent, the other day who said, he's just on an airplane and I was watching the show. It's so good. It's so good.

I get one of those every two, three months from somebody. And it's a good reminder. Yeah, we made something great. And not a lot of people can say that. And it's important when you have done something like that to remember it. it's kind of that was 2007 when it started and people forget we hadn't been in the streaming world and all that we had sopranos in the wire and a few of those shows the show was great but there was no guarantee it was gonna take off AMC people weren't sure we shot the pilot in 2005 I think or 2006 and then it was a year before we shot the second one we didn't know if we were going to get picked up right we didn't know if we were going to make a second episode so then it then it debuted and it was a hit.

People were gaga for it, which was great. But we didn't know if we were going to get a second season. It was that kind of thing. It was very, we'll see, we'll see, we'll see. AMC didn't really have a history of making television. They weren't really sure of funding. They were trying to figure out how to finance this thing. It was not an inexpensive show to make.

It was period. It took place in New York City, even though we're shooting in L.A., build all these sets. So it was very, you know, piecemeal and how it came together. And then once it finally did, and we achieved a critical mass of, of, you know, critics and all the other stuff,

okay, we started winning awards, okay, here it is. Now Emmy award winning and all the other stuff. Well, okay, now we're going to get another, now we're going to get another season. Might not get two more seasons, but we'll see. And then all of a sudden it went for seven seasons. And that's a success that very few people, get to experience and and we're i'm eternally grateful for it but it is uh yeah it's a it's a it's a

it's a unicorn in a lot of ways it obviously changed your career but it changed your life too i remember seeing you at the 2012 one of the political conventions in charlotte we're in the lobby of hotels group people and someone came up and asked for a picture with you height of madmen and you tried to get you were very nice and you tried to get the one picture and then one person and it was this thing. And I went, wow, that's like a different way to go through life. Yeah, 2012 was, that was pretty high peak madman. And it's, it was a change.

It's certainly a change. It's definitely, you think like, and politics is a perfect way to put it, because I remember meeting Al Gore at one point. And he said, you know, the selfies have taken five years out of my life. just because in the old days you shake hands and move on. That's it. Maybe you get a little Purell. That's all you got to worry about.

And now it's a picture. It's a this. That's a let's do. And of course you don't want to be, you know, rude. Yeah. But there's also, you know, there's only so many minutes in the day. And you talk about that thing where it's like, it's one person and then it's two people. Now it's okay.

It's 3,000. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. And your rest of your day is in that lobby. That's the rest of your day. Yeah. But you seems to me you've sort of managed it.

pretty well, right? You've had that moment, but you live regularly. I think, you know, I think, like, you learn to prioritize everything, right? So everything has its compartment, and like, if you're, if you're going into a place where you know that's part of the equation, then you have to kind of dial that up. And if you, you can, you can remove yourself from those things. But if you go to Madison Square Garden, you're going to get, you're going to get mobbed. That's the way it is. So, you know, you just got to manage those expectations. So what do you have on the, you know, We've got Fletch coming, Top Gun Mavericks can be huge. As you look at the sort of future and the horizon of your career,

what's still out there that you want to do? I don't know. I've been so lucky. I've been so fortunate to do, like I said, to work on both sides of the aisle, comedy and drama, work with all the people that I want to work with. My friend John Slattery just made a movie starring me and Tina Faye. We shot that last fall. That's going to come out at some point.

I don't know. I'm just, I just like to keep my, my head on a swivel and my eyes open and be aware when those opportunities come my way that I don't miss them. Well, it's guided you pretty well, right? So far so good. Yeah. Congratulations and everything. Thanks. People are going to freak out about Top Gun. It's so good. I think, I think, I think they're going to like it. Good to see you, man. It's good to see you. My big thanks again to John for a great conversation, always so fun to see him. You can catch Top Gun Maverick in Theodore. on May 27th. My thanks to all of you for listening. If you want to hear more of these conversations with my guests every week, be sure to click follow so you never miss an episode. And don't forget to tune in to Sunday today every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit Down podcast.