Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Josh Brolin on Craft Over Fame, the Cost of Honesty, and His Inner Switch

Episode Date: December 14, 2025

Josh Brolin is an Academy Award-nominated actor whose 40-year career spans the cult classic The Goonies, acclaimed turns in No Country for Old Men and Milk, and Marvel’s billion-dollar Avengers franchise. Brolin joins Willie Geist at Hotel Chelsea to discuss his intense work in Weapons, Running Man, and the third Knives Out film, his resistance to believing his own hype, and how decades of struggle shaped his instincts. Plus, he opens up about the uncomfortable process of writing his memoir and the drive that pushes him to take on demanding roles. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks, as always, for clicking and listening along. Got a great one for you this week with Josh Brolin. What a career he has had from Goonies in 1985 when he was 17 years old all the way up into his latest. It's the third of the Knives Out movies. The director and writer Ryan Johnson puts together these incredible whodunit with great cast, great stories. This one is called Wake Up Dead Man, a Knives Out movies. mystery. In it, Josh Brolin plays Monsignor Wicks. Kind of a shady pastor leading a small church that's getting smaller by the day. I'll let him explain the character and the story a little more without giving too much away. Those movies are always so much fun. Just a great guy to hang out with.

We got together in the basement restaurant of the Chelsea Hotel in New York City, a place he's been coming since the 1980s when it was a little shadier itself. Now he just likes to come back. It's familiar. He knows the place. He knows the people. He likes walking around the neighborhood. So we sat down in the restaurant of the Chelsea Hotel and talked through his career. Of course, his dad is James Brolin, the famous actor, but as you'll hear, Josh had no designs on becoming an actor. In fact, he was running around with a crew in the Montecito Santa Barbara, California area called the Cedo Rats. They surfed, they skateboarded. Some of them did much worse, as you'll hear. And it wasn't until he took a theater class and he realized, oh, this could be fun. And it's 17. He auditioned for and got that role in the

Goonies. Big hit. It's a classic to this day, but it didn't really launch his career. It was kind of in the wilderness here for 20-some years. And then a movie in 2007, no country for old men. Great movie, great part for Broland, launched him into movies like W, American Gangster and Milk, and a performance there that earned him an Academy Award nominee. Then he plays Thanos in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. You know his resume. I won't bore you with it. This year alone, he's shooting another Dune movie right now.

He was in The Running Man. He was in weapons. He's just been super, super busy with these really intense movies and kind of jokes that he needs to peel off and do a rom-com now. So great talk about his career and also a lot of big picture stuff about what it means to be a celebrity and how he thinks about all that. So sit back, relax, and enjoy right now. Josh Brolin on the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Thanks for doing this, man. Thanks for having me, man.

I really appreciate it. I'm excited to talk to you because there's so much to talk to you about. I mean, this year... Professionally, personally. Well, both. Yeah. I mean, we'll see how dark you want to get here, but... Sit back in my lounge chair, my chaise lounge.

Let's just do professional for the moment. How about that? I told you I saw weapons. I'm the last person on Earth to see it. That's not true. A lot of that is happening now. People are like, I didn't see it for, and a lot of people saw it. So you're not like, I wish you had seen it then, and then maybe it could have been successful.

But it was successful. Well, I continued that last night and then couldn't sleep all night. So thanks for that. We'll talk about that. No, you weren't that scared. Did you laugh more? Were you actually scared? I'm curious of your reaction.

There was humor in it, which is part of why I really liked it. Me too. But it was mostly intense. Had all the good things of a thriller. And Amy, we mentioned Amy. Amy Maddie. Running Man's coming out this weekend as we sit here. It's two days away.

And then coming up here, the third Knives Out, Mystery, Wake Up Dead Man. So let's start there at the end. Your character, Monsignor Wicks. Did you see it? I did. Oh, I did. Do you see it in a theater?

No, I watched it on a big screen at home. Oh, good. So it wasn't on the phone, which I don't like watching. That's right. You're rich. I forgot. I mean, I went to Best Buy and got a TV. It was a great 77-inch screen.

Not like a screening room. So tell me about Monsignor Wicks who this guy is, this demagogue, this guy who who sort of preaches to his flock of 10, 15 people. He's a guy, I have to remember. He's a guy who has a small congregation that he's trying to. forcefully shrink. He feels that when he does his little sermons, if he doesn't get somebody to walk out, that he's not challenging the standard of the human being well enough. And it's an interesting, it's funny, because when I was doing weapons, I was really, not that I was focused on, I knew I was going to do knives out right after weapons. And then it was running man after that, even though running man's coming out before. And I was really working on the Knives Out stuff, the big speeches, during weapons. And I remember Zach saying, can you please just focus on the movie, on our movie, which was a great movie, which turned out to be a really amazing movie.

But I just thought the writing in Knives Out was incredible. He's an incredible writer. Yeah, Ryan Johnson. Brian Johnson. And the stuff that I had with Josh O'Connor outside of the church. and then the speeches in the church. Yeah, it's a labyrinth. It's a great kind of labyrinth and story

that I thought, that I had to read very slowly in order to understand, and that doesn't happen very often. Without giving anything away, your sermons are great, but the moment we really meet you is when you first sit and start talking about...

And give a confession. For the ages, let's just put it that way. It's one of the funniest scene that's seen it along. Good, I'm glad you thought it's funny. You didn't really see it coming. No, but it's great. It's great because he's poking at him.

He doesn't like this kid, so he's like, hey, will you take my confession? It challenges. Whether it was me or anybody else in that role, it's so well written that it would have been great with anyone doing it. But I'm glad that he chose me. You talk about the labyrinth of these knives out stories,

which they always are. When you get the script for a movie like this, do you get the full story? In other words, do you know where this thing's headed while you're in it? Yeah, but you forget or you force yourself to forget, or I do, or I'm good at forgetting, or something like that, one of the above, because I read it, and it was one of the few scripts that I, you know, you read a lot of scripts.

And even if a script is good, you go, yeah, I get what this is, you know, and then it's going to be up to the filmmaker to make it interesting or have an interesting slant on it or whatever. But it's rare that you read a script and you go, wow, it's like reading a great book. You go, I didn't expect that, and that just blew me away. But reading that script, I thought that I had the answer and I was wrong. And then I thought that I had the answer again, and I was wrong. And that doesn't happen.

You know what I mean? And I don't know how many mysteries I've read, you know, back in the day. But it was really satisfying to be wrong, to be just a half a step behind where he was manipulating me. in the script. So yeah, to be involved in that, and I'd seen the other two, I loved the first one,

I liked the second one, and this one I thought kind of went back to a darker, more, not melancholic, but just kind of morbid gothic vibe. And I liked that. I had the same thought that the second one got a little different

and then this is back to it. There's a little more weight to it. It feels like, is it fun for you as an actor who's played every kind of character? to do someone that bombastic, that kind of demagoguery, where you know you're going to get a big speech and you can just go hard. Yeah, but personally, like if I'm really honest,

it's doing the speech for who I'm doing it for. Okay. Glenn Close, who I know from brothers, who I adore. Mela Koonis, who I know from before. Renner, who I've known for a long time. I remember when he, like, basically first came on the scene and I got all excited that a great new actor had kind of, like the town and Hurt Locker and all that kind of stuff.

So all these people that I kind of know, which makes it that much more innervating, you know, unnerving. Yeah. And you're like, oh, can I pull this off? You know what I mean? And they're all looking at me like, oh, look at Josh, try and go. You know what I mean? But I like that.

I liked the challenge of that. The thing that I get to resort to with Ryan is that it's great dialogue. And it scared me. I was like, am I good enough for this? You know what I mean? Which I didn't mind being in that mindset. I was living up to a challenge, at least in my head, that I wasn't sure I could pull off.

So that was fun. And it is fun. To answer your question, it is fun. I have a tough time selfishly watching that movie. Interesting. Because he gets into a rage in that movie for moments that I, that, I didn't expect it, but I don't like watching.

Oh, interesting. For personal reasons. Of like a guy who, as an actor, you go, oh, look at me go. You know what I mean? And I don't think that, I'm way past that. But I go, oh, that's appropriate for what is doing. And then, oh, you're made of that. Mm.

Like that came from a place that you don't love inside yourself. Exactly. So I was very uncomfortable watching it. I liked the movie, but I don't, I don't know if I want to see it again. Is that not, though, part of being an actor to find it somewhere, even if you don't like it? I've never experienced that. Oh, interesting. I've never experienced other things where you're like, oh, I tapped into an emotional place and I'm happy that I was able to do that. Maybe I didn't think I could do it. But that was a certain emotion that I didn't particularly love. Like a little ugliness you saw there. Yeah. And ugly is okay, but that was an ugly that I went, whoa. Yeah. And it was appropriate.

It's appropriate for the movie. I'm glad that it's there. Well, you're great. I mean, it's from that first scene. The first scene is fun. The confession. I can't wait for people to see it. Let's talk Running Man, too.

Yeah. So I grew up, not Running Man too, Running Man also. Also. I grew up on the first one, 87, Schwarzenegger, Richard Dawson. Based on a Stephen King. That was a hybrid of, those two movies. I mean, those two characters, Richard Dawson. Right. Right. Right. So when you heard about the idea for this project, as someone who grew up around the time I did, do you say, oh, they're doing

Running Man again. What's that going to look like? No, it was interesting, but it was more interesting that it was Edgar. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And I have a photograph of me and Edgar in 2007 in Cannes, and I had no country, and he had Grindhouse, I think, is why he was there. And it's me like, drunkenly kissing his cheek or something like that. But I have that from 2007. And we would see each other at various, like he knows a lot of people. He's a very social guy. And I'd do a movie and I'd see him behind the monitor.

And there's this through line reaction to seeing him. And it's usually, ugh. Right? So I saw him during Knives Out, which was before Running Man. And I saw him next to Ryan. I just looked up and he was there. And I went, oh. And I think that's why.

I'm in the movie. Because he's visiting sets and seeing his buddies and he's around. Yeah. So it was one of those things that you go, it's a cover song is what it is. You know what I mean? And you look at the filmmaker and you go, do I want to be involved in a cover song? And it could be even better than the original song or at least just a, you know, a new take on it. And he's done some really interesting films, Sean of the Dead and, you know, Baby Driver and

that and I've liked his vibe that he creates. When he nails it, it's great. But yeah, and also another, another, you know, one guy after the other. And I go, at the end of that year, I said to my agent who I adore Joel Lubin and I was like, I'm happy with the year, really happy with it. I worked more than usual. I did five movies back to back. And I don't want to repeat it. I did that. Like, oh, you're the bad guy. You know, the bad guy.

I did. It was like a little bit of a, like, am I that guy? Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. It was a, I had a little personal hiccup. Oh, interesting.

It is interesting. This is at the end. After 41 years of doing this. Yeah. Yeah, after all of them. Right. And I really liked them. Yeah.

I love, I love them for what they. They are. I would never change it. I just don't want to repeat it. I'm going to go do a freaking rom-com now or something. You know, we're getting the era of the Brolin rom-com. I guess, man. I mean, you got it. You know, I saw, I'll just say this quickly, I saw, I said, Christy last night, and I really liked it. I saw it by myself in the theater, all emotional at the end, thought the story was incredible. I thought Sidney did amazing. I thought Ben Foster did amazing. But she gets a lot of flack for just going outside of her what she's been accepted as.

I've never been accepted as anything, which is very lucky. It's not like, oh, Josh does this. So I'm very lucky in that way. I can go do maybe not a wrong com, but something. And people go, oh, yeah, he's just doing whatever. It is interesting. It's like you didn't set out to do that. It's just the way it is.

There was nothing that landed where they go, oh, this is maybe more of a bad guy, but not even that. Right. Like you go, is no country a bad guy? Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Maybe. Maybe that more than anything. But there hasn't, there's only been one movie I think that I did that I really tried to push in one direction. That's brothers that to me didn't work. Right. Right. They don't want to see me wine for 90 minutes. It's not interesting. Right. You know, see me rage, but not wine. Let's test this theory and get you in the rom-coms. And let's see what happens, right? I'm sure. I am. Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Josh Brolin right after the break.

Welcome back now more of my conversation with Josh Brolin. The opposite of the rom-com is weapons, which we've been talking a little bit about. What an extraordinary movie. The buzz is for good reason. I've heard so many people say, have you seen weapons? That sort of word of mouth thing. Again, when that one comes across, your desk. Do you get it right away? Is that appealing to you on paper? I don't know if I was

supposed to say it because I didn't want to, you know, make him feel bad or make his team feel bad, but Pedro Pascal was supposed to do it. And they had a lot of people, different people, were supposed to do it, like a year ago, a year before it was done. And then for some reason, it was paused. I don't remember why. And then there was a recap. because Pedro had something else. I think he was doing Fantastic Four or something. So they called me and they said, hey, this thing has opened up.

Are you interested? And I don't know that I was particularly, because there was a horror film and I was like, I did Grindhouse, but that was more of a tongue-and-cheek horror film. And you hear the story and it's these kids disappearing. And I go, eh, I don't know if I want to get into that,

which I think it was people's reaction. When I heard, when the movie came out, they were like, I don't want to see that. And then people started seeing it and going, oh, it's not just that. It's actually multi-layered. But I met him. I met Zach, and I really enjoyed meeting Zach,

because he comes from a comedic background. He's using a horror genre, and I hadn't seen Barbarian. He's using a horror genre to deal with having lost his best friend, and each character was based on a rea. action during his grief process. That's interesting to me. It just became very emotional. Both of us got emotional.

And I was like, I just want to work with this guy because I didn't expect that. You start wanting to work with people who are anomalous. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And, you know, when people, I've said this before, but when people show up and they're like, you know, dude, this is going to be your... I'll use 150 millimeter on your eye because you say everything right there. It's true, though.

I don't mean to be a d'I. But it's like, you don't, you know, I just saw Paul Thomas Anderson upstairs. Oh, yeah? And I've known, you know, we did inherent buys. Yeah. And the exchange, Matt will tell you. It was so unpretentious.

Yeah. It's like two homeless dudes that haven't seen each other, haven't slept together for a while. You know, on the street. And that's how it felt. That's literally how it felt. That's literally how it felt. How do you keep that, though?

Because you've been at the highest levels of Hollywood and you've done everything you can do at Marvel and everything else. But how do you stay in there and not... Because I have such a fear of it. I have a massive fear of believing your own hype because you lose something to me. And it sounds super pretentious. And if Paul were here, he would give me shit for saying this.

But you're representing the human condition. and I know a lot of people that drink the Kool-Aid and they also give great performances. So maybe I'm wrong. But for me, if you're representing the human condition and you're not involved in the human race and you're just living this 0.001% life, how is that truthful?

How can you be truthful in any way, shape, or form? That's my feeling. I don't know. Or maybe I'm just like, I just want to save my money and I don't want to spend it. I'm just a money hoard. I don't know. But that's you walking around New York yesterday and ducking into a movie theater and going to see a movie. In other words, just trying to live a... I'm not trying to live. No, but I'm just saying living as regular a life as you can. I'm not trying to. It's not forced. I just do. And I don't get bothered. I remember De Niro saying something about you're recognized if you want to be recognized. Even if you're doing that, that's why we moved out of Malibu. Don't look at me, but please make sure that you're looking at me.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. People are hiding. They're doing a thing. But you're looking at the person who looks unnaturally like they're trying to hide. That's right. And there's too much energy that goes into something that I don't want to spend time doing.

Yeah. So if you walk down the street, especially in New York, which is the greatest, they're like, yo, man. Oh, yeah. Yes. And you're like right on. And that's it. That's it. Yep.

It's done. And you're like, that's how it should be. Where, you know, there's another version of it that I get angry at. And I'll turn around and I'll confront. And they say, you can't do that. And I said, says who? You know? Yeah.

Again, reacting to things as a human being and not reacting to. to things as a untouchable, famous person. Yeah. I don't know, man. It's like if I, after, you know, if I said that at five years in, that's different. But when you're 41 years in, you go, I don't want to not like what I do. Right. And in order to not like what I do, I want to keep mixing it up.

You want to keep finding, you don't want to lose the wonderment. You don't want to lose the fascination of the poetry of how people react. So I have to put myself in situations where that is organic in order to get things to me that are interesting. And then try and duplicate it or, you know, what's the word? Replicated. Replicated or simulate it. Yeah. Simulated.

Yeah. Well, that's such a fascinating take. I agree with you, by the way. But when there's somebody sitting on the subway with big sunglasses and a hat pulled down, I'm like, oh, are you on the subway? Oh, that's someone, rather than just sitting on the subway. And you're right on the subway, especially people reading the New York Post, just go, I see you. That's it. That's all.

That's it. Or not. That's even better. Yeah. Why doesn't anybody know who I am on the subway? You see American gangster, man? It was amazing. Thanos?

Nothing? No. Phano? Purple dude. Hello. You know. You're going the other way. I was with my daughter.

We went, we were going, we went, where do we go? We went to a gallery where I wanted to see these paintings. Then we walked across around 89 Street, walked across the park, and then took the sea train back down to Chelsea. And we did it a couple of times. We went back up because it was closed that day. So we went back up and we did the opposite. It's not, there's no issue. Right.

No issue. You get to use the phone to tang. I miss the tokens. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to use my phone for everything. So I got pissed so I jumped the turnstile. No, I'm not just kidding. I'm just kidding. I didn't. A confession here. NYPD is waiting outside. But what's interesting about that perspective that you have, just reading like your story, your life story, you could have, as the son of a well-known actor, sort of put yourself in that space. if I'm different or special, all that. But it feels like your upbringing, where you're basically working on a farm and cleaning out animal cages

and skateboarding and surfing and doing all that normal stuff kind of kept you grounded and away from that bubble. Is that fair to say? That your dad was living in? That my dad and my mom were living in. My dad was working. My dad, and not that he wasn't home, he was home,

but my mom chose to be away from L.A. and not to paint my mom as somebody, because I did in the book and all that, but I painted my mom as somebody who was rough and tumbled, drunk, whatever. But she had long nails, and she liked her, you know. Eh, you know, and, but she did. She had a funny relationship with fame, because when she moved from, and I'll get through this quickly,

but when she moved, when she ran away from home in Texas and had 90 bucks, The first people she met when she got to L.A. were Clint and Maggie Eastwood. So that's who took her under their wing. And then she ended up, after a while, just being in the maelstrom of Hollywood and coming from where she came from, she ended up in Camarillo State Hospital for three weeks. And voluntarily, they put her in, but she could have left at any point. And then Clint came to get her out, and she said, no, I like it here, because she had kind of taken open. the whole space, which was, you know, it sounds awful, but it's very in character for my mom.

So my mom was always in the cauldron of really interesting behavioral. Right. So maybe it's from that. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And even though she was around Clint Eastwood, even though she, you know, the country Western world, where it was Whalen and Johnny Cash and all the, you know, Mel Tillis and Marty Robbins and all. all these amazing people that we were at the Palomino Club watching and we'd be in their trailer in the back. So it was a different existence and a different sort of fame because people

who were famous in the country Western world weren't famous, famous. Right. Not like now. It wasn't like Garth Brooks. Right. You know what I mean? It's like Waylon Jennings. Yeah. It's like piles of cocaine and, you know, and a motel. Right. Right. So I'm, I took the cocaine out, but I'm still in the motel honoring my mother. That's amazing. But you, when you're, look at us. I say this with a super nice thing that's not even mine. But you're, so, but when you're like a, you're running around with the Cito rats, right, in the, in the 80s and trying to live that somewhat normal lifestyle of a teenager in California. Not normal, but I mean, you know, not the

Hollywood life. No. That's what I mean by that. No, no. Is acting in performance anywhere on your mind at that point? Is it appealing to you? Not at all. Not in the least. Performing is, but in a different way. Yeah.

Like for the police and stuff. But not in a, no. And there's nobody of my crew have gotten that crew of guys, but that gaggle of people, there's nobody who ever would have thought that I were to become an actor, ever. and then I accidentally I mean I've said it before it was like I had an elective possibility and it was like underwater basket weaving

or acting or whatever it was and it was like yeah and I took the theater class and I got up I can't remember what the teacher's name is but marry somebody and I got up on stage it was the first class

and he said okay we're going to do this thing called improvisation and you're going to get up and you're going to create a character and then we're going to ask you questions and then you respond as the character. And I had created some like East Coast, middle-aged, balding, whatever. Whatever came to my mind.

And they asked me questions and it made people laugh and there was something that switched in me. It was just something that switched. And then I was kicked out of my house in Santa Barbara and I went down to L.A. And it was trying to get my shit together and I said, maybe I can try this.

Made up a whole resume. A hundred percent bullshit. And... You remember anything you put on there? Oh, it was like, you know... I remember the theaters the best. It was like the Libraro International Theater and like Touretso or something.

There is no such town as Torrezzo. It's like Touretso. You know what I mean? But, yeah, I'd put like streetcar and then I'd put some Shakespeare. Sure. And I was a good enough bullshit talk around it. You know, how was it playing, you know, much ado about nothing? Oh, my God, that performance.

I remember the rehearsal process, you know, whatever I said. Just thinking about it. Yeah, exactly, you know. And then I went from agent to agent, and then I got an agent. And then I, yeah, I was told by everybody, you know, you're too green, you're not good. We're not going to, you know, people who I knew were not going to give me a shot. because my dad was an actor, and they thought that I had been kind of, you know, silver-spooned through this. And it's interesting, man.

There's been a lot of, and it's probably the best way it could have happened. There had been a lot of, nothing was kind of brought on a silver platter. I had to work for it, find it, manipulate it, manipulate myself, and see if there was any skill set or talent there. and I had to work for it. Yeah. And I got very lucky with opportunities, theater opportunities,

you know, stuff like that, that turned me into, if I'm any kind of an actor, that. And your first movie ever, by the way, 40 years ago, it comes out as Goonies, which becomes this hit and cult favorite now still today. Yeah. And you're thinking,

I'm in a big movie, one of the stars of the movie, we're off and running. But it didn't really turn out that way. way. No. No. No. And it did for some people. If you look at, but look at if you have a long enough trajectory, Kiwi Kwan, who was, I mean, he was it back then. And Kiwi Kuan left the business, and they came back 25 years later and won an Academy Award. I mean, it's insane. The business is insane of what it can celebrate and what it can take away from somebody.

know what I mean, if you're identified in it. So I didn't feel like, oh, I'm there because I didn't feel like an actor yet. I just got, I was the right person at the right time. And then after that, I did thrashing and, you know, even though that became, and I don't talk poorly about thrashing anymore because I used to. Yeah. And then you start talking to people of like, you know, that saved my life. Right.

You know, my parents were junkies and I started skating because of this. And I'm like, wow. you know, but I sucked in the movie. I mean, I was super bad. Really bad. Is it true that you cried after the premiere? Yeah, man. Because you saw it and you were like, I was done.

I wasn't moved by me. Put it that way. Chrissy! You know, no voice control at all. And, yeah, I was like, I got to do, I got to figure this out. And then I did a double episode of Highway to Heaven. And then I went to New York after that and started. doing theater. Yeah, and you've talked about and written about in your books or being in the

wilderness for a long time as an actor and still trying to find it and then kind of stepping away and trading stocks and all the things you did. Were you at that point done with acting? Or did you think this is just a pause while I figure this out? It's not a pause. I was still in it. Just what there was nothing to do. I mean, we're getting calls. Imagine, you doing this and nobody's on the other side of this table. You're just by yourself waiting for somebody to show up. Hey, maybe we should do George Clooney. Yeah, that'd be great. George Clooney doesn't show up. You know what I mean? It's like, that's what it is. You're like, oh, you're an actor, but nobody's calling for you to do a job. So I would go, I never knew for 22 years or something.

I never knew when I was doing a job what that next job was going to be, ever. I never knew what that felt like. So I would do a job maybe for 50 grand or something, and then I would, you know, get 20 out of it, 22 after taxes and commissions and all that. And that was it. That's what I had for the year, you know. And I knew I was good at more than one thing that I could figure it out. So, you know, stocks was a big thing, and I made good money playing stocks because I was super disciplined.

I didn't believe in the big win, which parallels with this. It's like, look, all I want to do is be a working actor. I just want, if I can make enough money doing this thing and get away with being creative for a living, that's a win. That's a massive win, as opposed to how do I get the most famous I can get? And that's what I, especially in this day and age with Instagram and all that stuff, when people ask, you know, I'm thinking about the two professions that people resort to when they don't know what else to do is acting in real estate. They'd either become a real estate agent or they want to become an actor. It's just how it is. You know, and then they go, okay, how can I become an actor?

And I said, we'll start reading plays, get people together who you. you know and you start doing round robins and play readings during the weekend um find somebody to start and then the film starts to go over their lives that's hard and they're like yeah that's work yeah i'm not talking about the work i'm talking about how do you get famous i'm like i don't i'm the wrong guy to talk to anyway but you sort of navigated that you get to no country for old man 2007 when that comes out and such an extraordinary movie it wins the Oscars and all the things that it does. That, though, had to feel like, okay, now I'm on sort of a different path, or are you still, even after that, a little hesitant? Because then W comes after that,

then comes milk, you get an Academy Award nomination, you go on this incredible run. At that point, did you start to feel comfortable? Like, maybe I'm back in the game? No, I wasn't back. I was in the game. Yeah. I wasn't, Goonies would be the only reason I was in a game, and I was out of that game. that Atari thing ended quickly, and it was really nice that it happened. But it's not that I was back in the game. I felt, because when we were doing No Country, there was nothing that suggested that the movie was going to do well.

And then if I went into this whole thing about how they tried to shelve the movie because they thought it was boring, and then how it kind of changed, Miramax came, and asked Paramount Vantage to take over the domestic because Paramount Vantage didn't think it was a good movie. They wanted to focus on their will be blood and into the wild. Sean's movie. So over and over and over, again, it's like one of those, you know, you do a movie

and then you kind of expect it to go out and a few people see it and that's it. And then that movie became something different. And it became different for the Coins. And it was the Academy Award, you know, Javier and all that stuff, man. And so my feeling was. to answer your question, my feeling was, how do I long, how do I sustain this? And for me, what, I mean, and I'm lucky, but just work with good filmmakers. I was offered a lot of money to do certain things.

And man, I don't dislike money. I'll take the money. But I knew that it was, that it was short-lived if I went that direction. And I wanted it because I had never. really had money, money. But I didn't. And then I would go do milk for, I think, for scale, you know? And then I did American Gangster and I got paid a tiny, I didn't get paid a lot. I did W and W. Like, I'm thinking about it now. I know exactly what I got paid. It wasn't a lot. It was way more

than I had made, but it wasn't a lot. Christian Bale was supposed to do W. And then he pulled out and then I took over for that, you know. Matt Damon was supposed to do milk. And then he had to do something. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. You don't know.

And it all fits in this weird. And now we all know each other. And we're like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know. And you all had some strange, mystical hand in each other's careers without knowing it. It's very strange. It's very strange. And in good company.

I'm honored to be in that company, you know. Really honored. Also, just to have your instincts proven correct, which is. do good work, do good things, and there will be a reward, even if it takes years in your case, there will be a reward. My wife still says, like, I don't know why you did weapons, you know, and nothing against her. But she said, that was such a different genre for you. Like, I just didn't see that coming.

You know, I read the script. I thought it was a really good script. You know, once in a while, I'd be like, read this and tell me what you think. And she said, I didn't see it. And it's one of those things where you have an instinct. And sometimes you're right and sometimes you're wrong. But the intention is I like being in good movies a lot more than I like being good in a okay movie. I would much rather be okay in a great movie than be great in an okay movie.

I like being in good movies. I like working with great filmmakers. and they're super bizarre people. I like being around that because it reminds me of being like back in the Sito rats. Right. You know? Just a bunch of misfits

looking for a place to fit and then those guys kind of congregate and find each other because they're outliers. Yeah. And they band together for better or worse. And then it's the same. There's no difference between Wilmo

when I was growing up and Ethan Cohen. except, you know, except Ethan does very well for himself. Right. And Will didn't. But you say I know that guy. I know that person. Yeah. And I don't, I don't, I went out to dinner with Ethan Cohen at one point.

And Ethan Cohen and I were close. And he kept looking down. It's just the two of us. So we were like this. And I'm talking and talking as I do. And he keeps going like this. And I'm like, why, I go, why do you keep looking down? Like I'm like, I'm telling you.

you the story, and I looked under the table and he had brought a book. No. I swear to God, dude. He's just reading a book. I go, what the fuck? It's just the two of us. You can't bring a book to a dinner with only one other person. And it wasn't an affectation.

Like anybody, you know, any actor would do that. You go, oh, I see what you're so creative, whatever. Wow. I thought you were going to say it was like, watch, check in it. No. Just reading a full book. Wow. Reading a book.

Okay. I would be insulted by anybody else, but with him, I just kind of like, aw, you weirdo. I love you, you weirdo. I do. I love them so much. Stick around for more of my conversation with Josh Brolin right after a quick break. Welcome back now to the rest of my conversation with Josh Brolin.

And then at some point, good movies and commercial success come together with Thanos and all the Marvel stuff, right? So that's a case where you go, it's going to be a good movie, right? I trust it in a way that maybe not all blockbusters would meet your standard of this is going to be also be a good movie and a commercial success. There's movies that I've done that have been commercial successes that I don't particularly love. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I didn't like necessarily the experience.

I won't say what it is, but I think most people, if they know me, they know what it is. Avengers was great. Avengers was Joe Rousseau and Anthony Rousseau. I'm closer with Joe, but it's great. He just, we have all the same references and we're kind of synophilic geeks and talking about, you know, scarface and this. And that's the references that he would use, you know. Dog Day afternoon. You know, I'm playing Thanos.

I'm in a onesie, you know, with, like, dots all over my face. And I keep getting stuck to things because of the Velcro on my onesie. You know what I mean? And then he's coming up and he's like, remember that thing in Scarface where you're like, yeah? He's like, do that. And then you're doing this thing. And Downey, who is a true artist, you know, he's. is a true anomaly. Again, not an affectation. He's a weirdo, you know, in the best sense of the word.

And, you know, Downey, I'd go on set. I mean, like, I think it's cold, man. They go, oh, yeah, Downey likes to keep the temperature at 58. I was like, for what? I'm like, okay, he's Downey. I can do that. Everybody's sitting waiting to do their scenes like this. Iron Man gets in all the shots, I guess, right? Whatever. Weirdo. But how did those movies, though, change exactly what we're talking about, which is to keep it in here, keep life normal, get on the subway, all that? Because now all of a sudden, everybody in the world knows who you are.

Did you feel that moving around in your life? No, I don't think that... No? I mean, honestly, I don't know how true this statement is, but I think it's true. If I had been offered an Avenger, whether I would have said yes or no. I was offered a 800-pound purple guy, you know, with like a scrotum chin. You know what I mean? So I don't think people are recognizing that in the subway.

And it's the best-case scenario. It's like, hey, do you want to do this thing? And by the way, when they came to me with it, it was a cameo. They hadn't developed that whole thing. And they were like, do you want to do this thing? And I was like, that's interesting. And they gave me the kind of Marvel Bible fan. and Iron Man, and I didn't know a lot about it.

And I thought, oh, this is super interesting. But it wasn't, the two movies weren't developed at that point. And, yeah, and it got really fun. It got really fun. So it's the purple dude against its best case scenario. Yeah. And for two films. So it's not 10 years.

And they go, well, you could have done it for 10 years. You get a bunch of money. You get a big. And I go, I don't want to do it for 10 years. I don't want to do a play for two years or a year. I'm not interested. I don't have, I'm too tweaky. I want to go in, that's why I love movies.

Go in, totally saturate and immerse yourself and just give it your all and then go back to real life and go home. I've got kids. I like my kids as opposed I'm trying to get away from my kids so I can go be famous somewhere. I enjoy being home. I enjoy being with my family. I have a 4-year-old, 7-year-old. I just saw my 32-year-old, and I got my 37-year-old. My whole, I will spend my entire life raising children,

which is good with it. You got some road ahead of you with a 4-year-old. I do. Which is a good thing, by the way. It's a really good thing. It is. It's a really good thing. Yeah.

And I don't, you know, again, it's like positioning without consciously, necessarily knowing you're doing it. You can't help but be regrounded. You can't help but be humbled. If anybody knows anything about parenting, it's that you'll never get it right. There's moments, and you go, I got it. And then it changes.

You know, and then you walk into the thing and your kid goes, no, go away. And you're like, what? What did I do? I didn't do anything. No, I want to be with mom. You know, or whatever it is. It's just, and that's the natural, that's an insanity that I prefer.

Yes. And then movies and all that, and they go, God, it's crazy. And you get pulled into movies and producers and people trying to manipulate you. I go, oh, that's not, not when you have kids. You know what I mean? That's an insanity that I love and adore and doesn't hold a candle. even though I'm super grateful that I get to do what I do at the level I get to do at. I'm not sure everyone I interview or everyone in your business has the perspective you have

and doesn't take the craft of acting as so precious. It feels like you know who you are. You're self-assured. You know what's important to you. You're grateful for all the opportunity you have in this business, but you know where it sits. I know where it sits, but the only thing that the caveat is, I do take it very seriously when I do it.

When I do it, I take it very seriously. And I give myself to it a thousand percent because I have a respect for the craft of acting, which I think is it's a craft, you know, and it's a skill set. I don't know if it's an art. I don't know. I think painting is an art, which I'm obsessed with. I wish I could do it, but I can't. I try.

but I think music is an art. I think writing is an art. Acting is a skill set. You're using somebody else's art and trying to simulate it in a way that, you know what I mean? That serves the story. And I don't mean to talk down about it.

It's like people are like, you know, but it's a skill set. Right. You know, and you have to, and there is magic in that skill set that can happen. And there's really magical moments that have happened that I'm so grateful to be. a part of when things just click and you're off on a thing and it's almost like a blackout you don't even know what happened

yeah but i've also had that and then watch the movie and go huh that's not so good i was in the zone right that's what's crazy about yeah movie acting and how it's edited and what music is put on it most genius thing about no country is that there was no music genius who would who would not put music to a film where there's not a lot going on that's

that's artistry or stupidity or incredible bravery or not caring what other people think so much and just saying look I have an instinct to do something which I do like being around these people you know I said the Sidney

thing I go people know who you are they expect your beautiful beautiful, you have a thing and you have a presentation and you do a certain kind of movie and you did the thing with Glenn Powell and it was so cute and then you're going to go play this girl. Good for you. I'm the first guy to go, you know, keep mixing it up. Keep challenging your niche. I like that. Push back against the public perception a little bit, right? Why not? Isn't that what you're here to do? I mean, not everybody is. and they find their niche and they like it, and they want to stay there, and it's comfy, and I respect that too.

There's a lot of people that I respect to do that, but I have more respect for people who challenge the niche, because, again, you're going back to representing the human condition. And it's like you either are part of the mirror that allows people to look at themselves in an interesting way, or you're a part of the roller coaster that is entertaining.

Yeah. I think Thanos would be both. Yeah. Before I let you go, I want to ask you about the memoir last year. You mentioned it. About a year ago, I think it came out. I've talked to McConaughey about this too, when you put it all out there, and all of a sudden the whole world knows it all.

It feels kind of private while you're writing it. You're telling all these things, and then you're doing interviews about it and talking about it. What was that process like for you? Was it some kind of catharsis? Was it just fun? Or what did the memoir mean to you to? It was super uncomfortable. It was.

Super uncomfortable. Yeah. And they said, God, it must have been cathartic writing it. And I go, no, all that stuff already happened. You know, it just hadn't been out there and how I, you know. And also Matthew's book, and Matthew did the blurb for my book. Very sweet, incredibly sweet. And really read it, you know, as opposed to certain interviews, not with you,

but certain interviews that I've done where people are like, wow, your mom, and you go, oh, you haven't read the book. You, you know, and I could tell those people, but people who really, it's an interesting, because it's very raw, very naked, very personal. And then the first interview I did was a guy that had been hounding me for three years. I was really heavy at the time. It was like 30 pounds heavier, and I was getting into this, and it was really uncomfortable and really raw, and I hated the interview.

I don't hate looking at it now. I think it's appropriate. Yeah. But when you're talking about movies and directors, and you have all these kind of scapegoats that you can utilize, you know, timeline, you know, whatever, other actors, this is just you. Yeah.

And if you've done it in a way that I think Matthew did it, because I really like Matthew's book a lot. But his is super inspiring. Mine's not particularly inspiring. And the book became what it wanted to become. I had one intention in the beginning, and then the book became very mother-heavy. And then it became about this redemptive thing with my kids.

And it's about survival. That's what it is and what you do with that survival. But there were a lot of people that were like, what about your second marriage? What about, you know, and it's not that's, I could write that book in the future. I'm reading Anthony and Tony Hopkins book right now, and I love it. It's so good.

But that's not what my book was meant to be. My book was meant to be like a vignettes, a vignette of memories, paintings, whatever prosian thing that I've always adored and practiced. It was my, yeah. In a way, I think with your mom, we all have a little of this, the farther away you get from something seeing it a little bit differently, what it actually meant then and what it means to who you became and all those things.

It was a huge. It was a huge endeavor for me, not knowing that it was. Because I've always written and I write every day. And it's my first love for sure. And I think I'll get better. As I do more, I just met with my Kimberly Wetherspoon, my lid agent. And like, what are we doing now? And I'm going to, I just pulled out of a movie and I'm going to focus on the next book.

And that's my love. That's what I want out of my life. And the more I do of that, the better I feel. and getting, as is my career, I don't get silver plattered. I didn't get the Pulitzer for that book, you know? I didn't get everybody. Yeah, but still, it's not like, oh, my God, it's a revelation.

You know, I had people that were pissed, and I also had, because I didn't give them that thing that a famous person is supposed to give them or a celebrity is supposed to give them. And maybe that was intended. I don't know. I really don't know. But then I had former poet laureates calling me out of nowhere

and be like this is one of the best books I've read in the last 10 years, which meant everything to me, a true writer calling me and saying, kudos. This is better than it should be. You know, and so yeah, it meant a lot. Keep doing it, man. Thanks, man. It's so fun to talk to you.

Thank you, you too. Thank you, Josh. I really appreciate it. My big thanks again to Josh for a great conversation. Wake up, Dead Man. A Knives Out Mystery is streaming now on Netflix. And my thanks to all of you for listening again this week. If you want to hear my conversations with our guests every week, be sure to click follow so you never miss an episode.

And don't forget to tune in to Sunday today every weekend on NBC to see these interviews with your own two eyes. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sitdown podcast.