Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Justin Theroux

Episode Date: April 25, 2021

Justin Theroux began his career on the stage in New York City, where he still lives today. He eventually landed roles on Sex and the City and in movies like American Psycho and Mulholland Drive, but nothing would compare to the attention he earned after marrying Jennifer Aniston. In this week’s “Sunday Sitdown,” Willie Geist gets together with the actor at the bar he owns in Manhattan to talk about that wild ride and his latest television series The Mosquito Coast. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks as always for clicking and listening along. Got a great one for you this week. In person, I should point out, one of the few we've been able to do in the last year. But actor Justin Thoreau owns a bar, it turns out, on the lower east side of Manhattan. I live in Manhattan too. I said, Hey, what if we went to your bar? It's called Rays. He co-owns it with some friends of his. So he opened up the bar. We sat there at some social distance, literally sitting at the bar. It's kind of a divey place you'll hear us talk about a little bit.

By design, he opened it a couple years ago. And it's just supposed to be a neighborhood joint where anybody can walk in, have a relatively inexpensive drink, a beer, a shot. Nothing fancy, you know, just a good place to hang out. Good music in there, good jukebox, memorabilia on the walls, kind of from the 70s and 80s, got the wood paneling and the pool table. joining us for the interview was his dog Kuma, who's become something of an Instagram celebrity during the pandemic. It's just been Justin and Kuma hanging out, having meals, all turning up on social media.

Pitbull Rescue that Justin went down from the Houston area during Hurricane Harvey and rescued Kuma, brought her back to New York City, and they live happily ever after together. Justin and I sat down to talk about his new project for Apple TV Plus. It's called the Mosquito Coast. If the name's familiar, it's because it's a novel, a 1981 novel written by his uncle Paul Thoreau. And now he stars in the series. It also, you might remember, in 1986, was a film starring Harrison Ford. So the story has some history. This series is a bit different from the movie and a bit different from the book, but indeed it was written by his uncle.

So a ton to talk to Justin Thoreau about, including a great conversation about what it was like to be. tossed into the celebrity ringer when he started dating Jennifer Aniston in 2011 and then married her four years later and then got divorced from her in 2018. They're still super tight, good friends. They talk in FaceTime almost every day. But he was very generous to share with me what it was like to go from being a pretty well-known guy. You know, you'd seen him in different movies and on the leftovers and shows like that. But man, to have the shutterbugs, the paparazzi, the flashbulbs, over you all the time was something that's hard to describe, but he did a pretty good job of what that experience was like. So I think you're going to enjoy this conversation right now on the

Sunday Sit Down podcast inside Ray's Bar on the Lower East Side with the owner, Justin Thoreau. Thanks for doing this, man. Thanks for having me. I'm having you. We're in your joint right now. My joint right now. This is Ray's. I was telling you, I've been to a lot of great dive bars in places like Nashville. You were mentioned. Austin, Atlanta, and this feels like all of those places to me. Authentic, I can't believe it's only a couple years old, actually. It's only a couple years old. We realized it was cheap to just put up, you know, faux wood paneling and some posters.

We used to be a restaurant friend of mine on it, and it didn't do so great. And then we realized, you know, we could open up a great little bar. I used to have a bar. I used to bartend just a couple blocks from here. I had a place called Vaughn. So I bartended there for years and years. And then other places, et cetera, when I was first coming up in New York. And so it was nice to have a place where I could go behind the bar again.

Now, what's the vibe you wanted to create, obviously, the dive bar vibe? But there's sort of like a... It's not really even a dive bar. We kind of wanted to create, like, sort of a hometown bar. You know what I mean? Like those great places in Austin or... I mean, every city has a great hometown bar that is kind of like a local spot. And this place actually is that, too.

Once we opened it, we already amassed a great... bunch of locals, also some tourists and things like that, but we like it to be mostly neighborhood people, you know, familiar faces. And walking distance for you, you can just pop in. I can pop in whenever I want now that the pandemic is lifting a little bit. Yeah. And, yeah, I can just bolt right over and meet people, meet at race, you know. You get back here with the gun and drinks and everything?

I do. I mean, I was never that, like, you know, Tom Cruise cocktail guy, you know, throwing decanters behind my back or anything like that. This is a kind of bar where basically no drink takes more than about 20, 25 seconds to make. Right. And if you want something fancy, you can go somewhere else. It's more of a shot in a beer kind of place. Exactly.

Yeah. Yeah. And how have you guys been doing through the pandemic? We were talking about this. It's been tough on so many places. It's been brutal, like for a lot of restaurants, a lot of bars. And that's sad. We've done okay.

We've managed to keep most of our staff completely employed. And that was sort of the game to sort of just ride it out, obviously not looking for a profit, just trying to keep it in one place. And we've been able to do that. So we're very fortunate. And we're also lucky that, as we talked about before, having outdoor seating, just a little bit like New Orleans at times. But in the best and the worst way. But yeah, it's nice to we finally have like, you know, it feels like it's starting to come back to life. Now that the weather's warmer, I'm sure, you know, being an East Coaster that makes all the difference in the world.

Yeah, just to be able to be outside. I have to imagine one of the perks of reaching the level of success you've reached is owning a bar. It's kind of a nice little, it's like a bonbon. It's like a feather in your cap, especially as a New Yorker. You kind of want, it's nice to, you know, all places in New York at a certain point are the extension of your living room. You know, whether it's your favorite restaurant or your favorite deli or your favorite grocery store or park. But it's nice just to have this. It's like an added room to the house that is not in the house.

That's a great way to think about it. People who don't live in New York might not appreciate it. You don't have this room. You don't have this room. You don't have like a little, you know, dad's basement bar with a dartboard. This is the wreck room. You're probably putting your clothes in it. Right, exactly.

Yeah. For people who hear the footsteps, by the way, this is the famous Kuma. There's Kuma. The beautiful Kuma. Kuma, come here. What's that? What are you doing? I come over here.

She's just working the perimeter. She's real comfortable on camera, huh? She just kind of dips in and out. She's so easy. I know. She's just sort of like a background extra. Just murmurs, doesn't chew her food too loud. She's stealing your scenes here.

That's right. Speaking of your scenes, the mosquito coast. Mosquito Coast. Oh, man, it's amazing. I told you I just got finished watching the first episode. It's intense. You've set the stakes very high. Stakes stay high. For people who don't fully know the story.

First of all, it's based on a novel, 40-year-old novel, written by your uncle. Written by my uncle Paul. Which is incredible. Yeah. So it's based on a novel. It's so hard. to describe. It's about, it was a novel that came out in the, I think, 1981. Yep. And it's about a man who's sort of loosely based on several family members, my grandfather

being one of them, sort of a thrifty industrious inventor. And in the book, he basically wants to leave America. He wants to get out because he just thinks it's beyond broken and he sort of throws a grenade over his shoulder and takes his family and sort of abscondes with them to essentially Honduras, which is the Mosquito Coast in the book. Our show is a little different in that we sort of, we're thinking of it as a prequel that has this motivating factor that pushes them out of the country. But the character is still exactly the same. He's this very sort of, hopefully by turns charismatic, charming, infuriating guy.

very opinionated. He's kind of like an Uber American in a sense and that like all Americans I think to a man or a woman has enormous problems with the way our country is being handled or run and he just wants to

get out and find his changrelah and he sort of forces his family to do it with him he's an amazingly complex character and as I was watching the episode I couldn't decide if I was rooting for him at certain times or what his motives were, what exactly? That's kind of by design.

It was based on, I think, interestingly, at the time, Paul wrote the book, he was sort of fascinated by the Jim Jones story, which of course no one really knew about until there was the Jim Jones massacre. But he was, he started to sort of follow that story and the origins of it and sort of trying to figure out how this sort of benevolent preacher really could go from nice guy Midwestern moves to San Francisco, gains a bigger flock and following, and then eventually heads to the jungles and makes them commit mass suicide. It's not too bright a line drawn between the two characters, but in a smaller sense, the alley character in the Mosquito Coast is, I think,

in the same way, charismatic in that he, it's sort of the cult of family, you know, And if we've done our job, you're constantly sort of asking that question of, you know, is he the most loving, wonderful father for giving these children this experience? Or is he the worst man on the planet? You know, like, and that tension and that the politics within the family is sort of where the show, I think, lives, you know, aside from all the sort of propulsive drama that's, that happens. What was it like to collaborate with your uncle?

I mean, the source material is written by a guy you've known for your whole life. Is that just a phone call? I'm taking the roll. I know. It was normal channels. Like he was sort of already off, you know, working with Apple to make it. I heard about it through my normal channels. I said, oh, my God, well, now actually kind of age appropriate for that.

I'd like to do that. Raise my hand and then met with Neil Cross, our writer. And then we just, it worked out perfectly. It just was one of the scripts were great. I wasn't obviously just going to do it. But we everyone met it. It was very kumbaya and we we ended up making a show and I actually had to call Paul and then just say like hey guess what we're doing a we're gonna do this show together, you know, and he sort of was very like He essentially said you know like you know just I'm not I'm gonna be pretty hands off, you know, he read the scripts he sort of blessed them And but yeah, it was great because then it was just calling him and asking him about Allie, you know asking him you know just any question I wanted to ask was

And we sort of had that pre-existing relationship already baked in. So I didn't have to, come here. So I didn't have to, like, worry about, you know, I didn't have to stand on ceremony. Kuma, get over here. What are you doing? Come here. You want to go potty? So I think most people would assume because of the Thoreau connection, it was like your uncle's handpicked you and said he will play the role.

He should have done that when the book came out. And I was 11. It's amazing. Just coincidental. It really is. It's one of those, I don't know, in a career, you get lots of sort of happy accidents, and this is definitely one of them. Some people might remember the movie, too, from the 80s with Harrison Ford.

Do you watch that, or do you want that out of your head? No, you want it out of your head, but at the same time, I had already seen it a thousand times because not only is it a movie that I had seen, but it's also like a movie that a family member had written when I was a kid, that we all watched a million times just because we couldn't believe seeing our family name on a screen. So I knew the character, obviously. I basically just went to our material, which is very different from the Peter Wir film, which is... But I, you know, of course, you kind of think, oh, maybe I should call Harrison Ford and genuflect a little and ask him for any tip. But, you know, the truth is, I had to work with the words that I was given and rediscovered the character.

And I also reread the book, which gave me ideas for the way that I wanted to do it. but I can't help but think, and I did a pretty good job of keeping him out of my sort of periphery, but I can't help but think that certain things are very similar, only in that the character, it's like Hamlet. You know, if he's written one way, there's a myriad of ways you can play Hamlet, but there's going to be a lot of similarities because the same things are going to happen to the character. So there's certain things that are probably tonally similar, you know, because he says the things that he says. I'm just thinking, listen to talk, I interviewed Ed Harris not long ago,

and he's playing Atticus Finch on Broadway. He said the first thing I did was not watch Gregory Peck. Yeah. I didn't want that floating around my head because I could live up to that. I definitely didn't do a rewatch of mosquito coach. Like, let me see if I can steal anything from Harrison Ford. Probably wise. Yeah, exactly.

Although I did end up meeting him in Mexico, city when we were shooting. Oh, really? Another happy accident where he was coming through to do some work and and our mutual friends said, oh, Harrison's, I don't know him, but he, there was a Harrison's going to be, you know, in town. You should, whatever. And we ended up having this long, fantastic dinner. Oh, that's amazing. It was really, we didn't really even talk. We talked a little bit about the making of mosquito coat. Like it was, he credits as being one of his most joyous work experiences, um, just for the location, the cast that they had. And he lived a boat and cooked his own food.

You know, like, yeah. So he, he loved that experience. But then we just talked about, you know, carpentry and playing things like that. Is that a crazy thing for you to have watched a guy your whole life? And then all of a sudden you're sitting at dinner. You're in a position of your life where you go to dinner with Harrison Ford. Yeah, it is. I mean, I don't want to, I mean, yes, it is. You know, but it's with people like that that you admire so much, I don't, I think I'm old enough

to not be sort of starstruck and like, oh my God, your hand's sold up. And he is. But I think more and more, at least in my life, when I meet people that I hold in high regard, I really just kind of want to mind them for their experience and their wisdom, you know, for the most part. And because those are people who have clearly done something right. And so it's just, and I find them a joy to talk to if you, you know, I don't want to talk about the business or anything like that. just more curious about what they're like. Yeah. He's a fascinating guy, too, on so many other levels.

The experience of working with Apple TV, I love talking to guys who come up in the business, and now there's this new-ish world of streaming where people talk about creative freedom and you don't get notes every minute of every day. What was it like for you? Well, I mean, it's that, it's, you know, it's the best, it just gets, it sounds like I'm being just the super company guy, but I would say this about other networks too. It just gets better and better because, you know, when I was first starting out, there was really just sort of the four networks. And with that comes an enormous amount of downward pressure creatively.

Just for simple things, for not being able to, on the one hand, you can say, oh, you can't say the F-bomb, you can't have sex, you can't have too much violence, which is fine. But what it's also saying is you can't tell, the story can only be so far. interesting. And that doesn't mean we need F-bombs and violence and sex to sell a TV show. It just means that the storytelling has to stay sort of below the waterline. And now, as we all know, with the golden age of television, television's really exploding in this creatively for really writers and showrunners. And actors are reaping the benefits of that, getting better and better parts. So Apple's been great. You know, like they, it's the perfect amount of hands on, hands off, you know, where they come in and they just sort of tap the ship sometimes because it's a pretty big production.

And they sometimes just, you know, put it a little bit back on course. But that's only if something's going even slightly wrong. You know, it's, they're not coming in the way I think the big networks used to come in and say, you can't do this, you can't do that. and make sure there's six commercial breaks. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it seems like the new executive ethos in entertainment is hire good people, hire talented people, and write the check and walk away. And let them do what they do.

You know, like, when you have a good group, don't mess with the formula. You know, like let people be creative, you know. And that's, you know, at the end of the day, you know, people get to, you know, headline things and people get to whatever. And obviously showrunners or stars are in their own right. but it's a team sport, you know what I mean? You know, and it doesn't work unless everyone's kind of doing the, you know, firing on all cylinders for exactly what they do. Whether that's a grip or whether that's a makeup person or whatever, you know, you really have to let everyone have their say.

And then the director obviously. Seems ideal and maybe we should have been doing this all along. I know. I know. Why haven't we been? I know. Fewer notes. Good for everyone.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. And then eventually it's just to become totally insane. Right, right. It kind of is in some ways. Just like abstract German expression, screaming television. But important work that no one's watching. Yeah.

We're talking about your uncle and your entire family, really, you know, in different ways, in media and writing and creatives, I think it's fair to say. Sure. So when you were growing up, was that sort of the path you saw yourself on? I'm going to follow in some ways in the family business? No. No. I knew I was never going to be, I don't know how the phrase.

I didn't do well in school, and that's putting it mildly, the multiple schools that I went to. So I don't know, I mean, look, I credit a very good mother who always encouraged me through lots of frustration, but no matter what was going on in my life academically, which was not much, she was always encouraging me to do the thing that I liked and it was painting, it was art, it was drama. And so somehow by Oaker by Crook, she was able to get me to the places, you know, took a lot of false arts that that would embrace that because I was dyslexic, I was hyperactive, I was kind of a mess, you know. And that sort of led to basically sort of an art school, local arts education, where I was able to do that.

And obviously no guarantees in that. but I can't imagine if, you know, she had been adamant that I'd become a doctor because that would never have happened or even the accountant, anything, you know, like, it's just not part of the thing. Paul and that's, it's sort of weird because they were sort of, we'd see them in the summer, him, my cousin Louis, Marcel, and they were incredibly bright, you know, like they were sort of destined to be doing sort of the things that they're doing, you know, which is writing wonderful books and, and I was sort of the kid that, you know, he was wearing a pan on his head, you know, with muddy from the waist down, you know, like, but yeah, so it's, it's, but now it's kind of, we're all at our place in our lives where we kind of get to,

you know, enjoy what each other's doing. I think it turned out well for you. Yeah. When did the, when did the spark really go off for you? Was it after college when you started toying around with acting and thinking, oh, maybe I could do this for a living? I mean, I studied acting. It's not like I was, you know,

trying to be an astronaut and just showed up at NASA. Like, hey, I'd like to do this. It's an astronaut thing. It was, you know, I studied, and then you all have the root awakening when you get to New York, and you go, oh, no one wants me. So then you, and then I just worked, you know, and I did every job in New York from bartending to construction. You know, all the normal, I did billboards. I painted.

I did everything. I also came to New York with a double major, drama, visual art, which is a real winning combo. But weirdly sort of the visual art stuff sort of took off first and I would do murals and clubs and bars and restaurants. And then I did everything I could not to wait tables because that's a pretty, for me, a soul-crushing experience. And I'm also not good at it. And then bartending I found, and that was kind of the greatest job ever because you can, you're basically kind of your own boss, even though you have a boss. and it gives you the flexibility to audition and do all those things. And then, you know, I didn't really have any kind of like moment where I was sort of

anointed and now you're going to work, you know. It was just that kind of, you know, I was doing small things, guest stars, you know, New York shows every now and then I'd get something that was kind of a, in L.A., you know. And it was just, I think, a really great slow kind of, kind of. road, you know. You know, it was nice when I could finally quit the bartending job. But there was, it didn't feel like there was any kind of like moment, you know, like, or now, and I think that's in a way the best way because when, you know, if you're young, I mean, and all of a sudden you're just, that magic wand hits you, it can be a really jarring experience,

or at least from the people I know that's happened to. But yeah, I think it's kind of, you know, All things happen for the way they're supposed to happen. And you were pretty set on being in New York. You were saying you got some advice actually to stay in New York. Yeah, I actually went to, I did go, say, to be sort of a third PA for James L. Brooks at his company, Gracie Films. And I got to drive him home one night. And he was asking me sort of sweetly, you know, like, when I was, you know, like 19, what are you going to do? What are you going to do?

I'm an actor, which I'm sure you would get a thousand times a day. And I said, yeah, I don't know whether I'm going to go to New York or L.A. And just try and start. And he said, go to New York. He said, don't ever go to L.A. unless someone flies you there. And because then you kind of know you're actually wanted there. Because L.A. and New York, there's no shortage of people that, you know, did a high school musical.

And then they're like, I guess I'm going to be the shit now. And then they just show up, you know. And I think, you know, I think that was great advice because, A, I love New York and it was kind of the advice that I wanted to hear. But B, you know, he said, you know, the competition is hard in New York and you'll know quickly whether you should be doing this, you know. It can take longer, I think, in Los Angeles to figure that out. You know, you can kind of coast along a little bit longer before you realize you should be a realtor or something. Right, right. There are a couple of rites of passage for New York actor.

You can be a corpse on Law and Order. We know that's one. I don't think you did that. I'm law and order, if you're listening, I'm ready to be a corpse whenever you want. That would be a nice little chestnut. I know. It's like every one of my friends has done like a, you know, like a guest starring, you know, sort of, you know, either on the jury or in the witness box. So you're pitching yourself for that.

I'm pitching myself for a law and order. Okay. Asap, please. And then the other one is, of course. I'll play a drug dealer. It's LCP. Now you're getting a little bit here. Let's just get you on the show.

Let's just generate some pages and then we can look at it. And then the other one is, of course, to be on Sex and the City. Yes. Which you were twice. Twice. But as different guys. As different guys. How does that happen?

Well, I think, you know, that show is a huge success in New York. And multiple seasons, of course, as everyone knows. And at a certain point, you kind of burn. And when it's about girls who are dating all the time, you burn through every single male actor in New York. You know, and I think basically I hit it in that perfect little G spot where, like, I was the last actor in New York at the first time I did it. And so then they ran out of them again and then I guess my number came up. No, it was actually kind of funny.

I think I did sort of a small part on the first one, you know, sort of a, you know, enters frame, says a few things, and then these frame. And then, but we had such a blast doing it and loved working with San Jessica. And also, we knew a few people in common. And they were like, why don't you come, can you come back? And I was like, yeah, of course, I'd have to, you know. And I remember the big idea they were like, yeah, well, we don't really use actors twice. It's kind of a thing. And their idea was that they would just shave my head.

So they just gave me this really short haircut and like some glasses or something. They were like, voila, total transformation. Just hope they don't notice. And I was like, so yeah, yeah, that's not the guy with the dark hair that was longer up earlier, was it? Sarah walked into rehearsal. I was like, you again. Yeah, exactly. I know. It was a more substantial part of the second one. But, yeah.

You were saying there's no light switch moment where you were like, okay, my career has taken off, but Mulholland Falls, um, oh, excuse me, Mulholland Drive. Yeah. Different, different project. Mulholland Drive in 2001, which was Cannes, where it debuted was about 20 years ago right now. It was May of 2001. God, you're right. Yeah, 20 years ago. Holy that was a moment for you. I have to. That absolutely was a moment. There's also nothing, I mean, that's a moment, I think, for anybody. You know, like, whether you're sort of early in your career or even late in your career.

And to go to the Cannes Film Festival with David Lynch is like showing up with the Pope. It's like, or, you know, I don't know, he, the French obviously adore David. We adore David. But they treat him very well there. And to walk out onto the quazette with him, with a moment. movie that's premiering there. I'd never seen, I mean, it's the widest, thickest, most glamorous red carpet. It's walls of photographers.

And to be with David Lynch with that movie and Naomi and Laura was just like pretty breathtaking, you know. And again, just like, not just the experience of the premiering the film, it was, you know, the doors would just fly open, corks would just start shooting out of wine bottles when David would walk into a room. you know, they were just, it was just sort of the, for that week, you know, the world was our oyster, you know, and it was really kind of, and kind of, it was kind of life-changing in that, you know, it was the first time someone, like, recognized me, you know, that kind of thing. Right. That's kind of cool.

But it was just, you know, and it was such a good movie, too. So it's, you know, it's, that was, yeah, I didn't know, it was 20 years. Yeah, 20 years. Cool. May of 2001. was Ken. And what a learning experience, right? We have reunion.

Yeah. To work with David. A spin-off. Reboot. I know. Oh, God. Things Dave will never do. Ever last.

David, we're thinking reboot. David, we got this thing. It's kind of a four-camera sitcom situation. I think it could be really great. But that, I mean, to learn that early in your career from a master like David Lynch, just how movies are made and what a good performance looks like must have been something. Well, he's all. Also, that guy, I mean, could not have been, I can't describe being on a David Lynch set.

I've been on, fortunate enough to be on two. But they're like, he's the sweetest most go-with-the-flow kind of director. His personality is so contrary to his films. You know, you watch his films and you're, you know, gripped by them and oftentimes disturbed by them. But when you're doing a movie with David, it's almost like doing a comedy or something. because he's got this incredibly bright personality, and he's calm. So when things, as things inevitably do on a set, go wrong, his first reaction is always, oh, great.

You know, like he just, oh, that's cool. Like, you know, the DP will come on. He goes, oh, you know, the sunset day, we're not going to get the shot. He'll be like, oh, it's a night scene. He always leans into what would normally be catastrophic, and he gets, like, kind of incredible results. you know like um so he you know and it's also because then you go into work with subsequent directors and you're not david lynch well that's the other thing the bar is here exactly um but it does teach you just as a as an actor or person that sometimes you should embrace the uh the difficulty

and it'll make your life easier you know if you he's an optimist i guess yeah which is interesting pair when you look you know there's feels like there's a darkness there in the movie but it doesn't sound like that's who you watch after a woman you know you watch after a working with him is, oh, you just can't even imagine, you know, like, that's the movie that we shot? That's so weird. I remember me and Naomi went and saw the first cut of Mahal and Drive at David's house. He said, I want to show you guys the movie. So come up to the house. We went up to the house and we kind of stumbled around, we stumbled out of the house, you know, a couple hours later. And we're just like, what the fuck? Like that was the most insane. That's so good. I mean,

we loved the movie. So we just thought, wow. But he does something when he does something, he goes back to the lab. He's obsessed with sound. He's obsessed with, you know, the way that, I mean, and his shots are just so sometimes slow, slow moving. I don't know, whatever. He's incredible. That movie's so good.

So good. Worth going back and watching 20 years later. Oh, my God. I won't go through your IMDB page, I promise. I don't want to bore Kuma. She goes through it nightly with me. I'm like, come on, you know, what was the fifth one? recite it back.

One of the most amazing things about you, which I think most people don't know, is that you were one of the writers on Tropic Thunder. Correct. And the writer on Iron Man 2. Correct. Which is unbelievable. Yeah. I mean, because people view you as an actor of the accident.

So what was the happy accident of Tropic Thunder? You know, Tropic Thunder was, I was doing a play on Broadway with Ben Stiller's then girlfriend. I met Ben. I was a big fan of the Ben Stiller show. Huge fan, I would say. So it was very chuffed to meet him. But then we ended up, you know, I was sort of quoting lines to him, you know, blah, blah. And then we, but we ended up becoming friends. And he really was one of those people that reached behind and pulled me up because I was writing a little bit at the time. You know, and I would kind of work, he would come to town periodically and do like, you know, Letterman or Conan.

and he'd need like a bit. He used to do sort of much more elaborate bits. And so I would kind of, we'd spitball and I'd help him come up with ideas. You know, like, oh, this could be funny. That could be funny. And we would do these like sort of long extended bits. And then he was like, you should write, you know, we should really write. So then I ended up just writing some things for him, you know, like when he would do like

the MTV Awards he hosted. Comedy writing. Comedy writing. But I didn't really know I was comedy writing. Yeah. And then he had an idea. which was hilarious. And the germ of the idea was

a bunch of actors go to make a Vietnam War movie and come back to L.A. claiming they have PTSD. That was kind of the kernel. And we just rift on that for months and months, just laughing and just thinking

all the hilarious, really goofing on actors. And that was the joke. And eventually it just snowballed, and I started writing scenes and we'd kind of write disparate scenes here and there, just things that we thought were funny. And then eventually it sort of got cobbled together and we'd pass stuff back and forth. And then eventually it was the movie that we got, you know, like it was Chop with Thunder. Had you written before that, like a screenplay or?

No, I'd done like some kind of, trying to think, like kind of rewrites and things like that or punch-ups or, but nothing like, that was my first screenplay, you know. And then as a result of that, got to work with Robert Downey Jr., who played Lazarus. And then we hit it off. And then he was like, why don't you come and he had just done Iron Man. He was kind of working concurrently. He had finished Iron Man, working on Tropic Thunder, was worried that Iron Man wasn't going to do well. I remember we were sitting in the trailer in the jungle, and he was like, I just got the trailer for Iron Man.

You want to see it? I went to his trailer and watched it. And Iron Man actually was a character, was a cartoon, a comic book figure that I loved as a kid. I even had the doll, probably the one doll I ran. And I watched it and I just was blown away. And I was like, dude, buckle up. That is going to be a ride. That's going to do so well.

He's like, no, no, it's not going to do it. I don't think it's going to do well. And I said, you wait, it will. And then we had such a good rapport working on it that he, when obviously, you know what happened to Iron Man. It failed miserably. Yeah. billion dollars later. Yeah, exactly.

Only one. And then he just said, why don't you come meet with Kevin Feigey and Jeremy Lachman and those guys? And so we went and we pitched. And that was one of those things where it was just like, oh my God, now we're doing this, now this is happening. And so you wrote Iron Man too? Yeah. It's incredible. Yeah.

It's great. I mean, when I say I wrote, it's one of those things that, you know, Kevin Feigey is, I think, one of the best fans of Marvel. And in that he knows, because he's such a fan, he knows what people who love those movies like. So he's probably the most sort of steadying hand in all of it, you know. And obviously, Fabro and Lachem and all the guys that worked there. So it's sort of collaborative and obviously Downey always has his own ideas. And it's like, nope, it's going to be this, now it's going to be that.

And so you're constantly pivoting to like, you know, sort of adjust. and, you know, so it's a bit like, you know, juggling plates, you know, in that room with those people. So I'm sometimes writing, sometimes transcribing, sometimes, you know, you know, there's, you know, Kevin Feigy and always says, you know, like, look, at the end of the day, where's pepper pots, you know, that's where this movie lives, you know. So he was a good sort of teacher and sort of how these movies operate, you know. Well, raises the question of those two massive successes, what else are you working on? What's your next?

You should do it more. I can bore you to death by telling you what I'm working on. Because, okay, here's, imagine it's a dark room. You know, it's like, no, I've got a couple of things on the shelf that there's one in particular that it's a comedy that I really want to do, that I've wanted to do for years. I've already written it. It's just a question of where it lives and how it, how it, how it, you know. And will you be in it? Is that something you write for yourself?

No, I don't think, you know, I don't really. I'm self-conscious about writing for myself. I usually like, or I usually, this has happened before, where I'll write something, and then I'll be like, oh, that could be a part I could play. And then I'll be like, but you know who would be great. You know, and I'll think of someone who's actually better for the job, you know, which is weird, it's terrible at cast. Show some humility.

Yeah, exactly. Well, there usually is someone great, you know. You were talking about 20 years ago, that experience of being on the red carpet for the first time and people recognizing you and all that. Now, 20 years later, I suspect when we step outside, there might be some company. If they got their checks, yeah, they'll be. What is that like for you to live under the microscope

and be as well known as you are now? Are you able to keep normalcy in your life? Yeah. I mean, look, I always, you know, the life is, any life, anybody's life, is really the most important part of it or aspect of it is what is in your four walls, of your house and your friendships that you maintain.

That part is one of those parts where it's just, I've learned not to complain about it, but it's just, it is what it is. I don't, I mean, oftentimes, Kuma, you know, you might see pictures of me in Kuma. I do. Because every day I have to take her outside to take a shit. And I like to do that for her.

So I don't know why that's interesting to people, but it is. And so that's where you get those pictures. I don't know. Nobody else does pick you out. You've got to get it done. Was that a shock to your system, though, 10 years ago when you started dating Jennifer and got married all that attention that you got? Yeah, I think part of me was like, you know, I'm essentially sort of a character actor and a writer.

It's not much there, there. But yeah, of course, that's one of those things that you think this is, that's a strange thing, you know. And at that level, you know, like, you know, but people are interested, you know, people, for whatever reason, you know, there's, you know, there's, Jason Bateman actually once gave me one of the most sage pieces of advice ever, when all that was kind of going on. And, and he said, he said, yeah, man, because we're already friends at that point. And he said, look, you know, it's, here's what's going to happen. It's, and it happens to everybody is that in that side of the end, you know, it's, you know, it's, it's, and it's, and it happens to everybody is that in that side of the end. entertainment industry, a character is about to be born. And that character is you, but it's not you. You know, so that character is, you know, angry, that character has got a problem. That character is, you know, sweet. That character, you know, it's just this little soap opera that gets written on, in the margins. And he said, and so my advice is don't follow that guy's storyline, you know. And it was a good piece of advice because I stuck to it. And that's the only way you can sort of

keep sane and all that. So you, were you able to block all that out? I mean, that's great advice. Yeah, I mean, it's hard. Sometimes when you're leaving the house and there's blah, blah, blah. But it's, but yeah, yeah, for the most part, you know, it's a, you know, it's an unsolvable riddle. So you kind of just go, I don't know why, you know, it's that fascinating.

Because I don't think one thing helps the other. That's sort of the excuse that softening is like, well, they want it. They like that. Yeah. They don't, you know. And now what they're getting is Kuma. That's right. Well, listen, if it's a rescue pit.

Bull, I'm happy to be about that. Are you, speaking of Jen, she's got the show, obviously, on Apple, you're on Apple now. Is there any possibility of some kind of collaboration

on any level? Not that you turn up on her show. Apple actually, like, kibosh it. I'm like, wouldn't it be weird if Ali Fox showed up on the morning show?

It's like going out of his mind. I don't know. I might just confuse the view. I'd love to do it, of course, but I think it would actually be more confusing than anything else. Like, are they trying to marry these two?

shows? Is it a crossover episode? What's happening? Allie would be a strange morning show guest. Totally. Or the best morning show guest. Right. Right. And off the rails morning show guest. Totally. Totally. I don't know what that would look like. That's awesome. Well, thanks for hosting us here. Do you mind if we go through a little stroll outside? Yes, let's do it. Kuma, let's do it. Kuma, do it. Kuma, do you want to go outside for a walk? Come here.

Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Justin Thoreau right after the break. Welcome back to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Now more of my conversation with Justin Thoreau as we head outside for a walk around the block in the Lower East Side with his dog Kuma. So have you been pretty much in New York throughout the pandemic last year or so?

Yeah, I've been here the entire... Uh-oh, here we go. Yeah, the entire time. Yeah. The entire time. I made it upstate for like a couple weeks, or a week or two. But in the thick of it,

when we were all locked inside. And was the show pretty well done and taken care of by the time this all hit? No, we were in Mexico City when the pandemic hit, shooting in an outdoor open market. And massively, we were like, hey, I think a pandemic is kind of really happening. And for sure, it was happening. And they shut us down, and we all flew back to New York. Which at the time was obviously ground zero for... Right.

For COVID. And it was, yeah, it was terrifying. So you haven't shot any since then? No, then we went back and we shot last October through Christmas. Right. And did the second half of our season. We got everything. And was it all the crazy stuff that other people are doing with the protocols and the shields?

But you know what? I actually, it felt great to me. Like, because it was living in a bubble when you're in a production, it's kind of a perfect world for what I think the country should have been doing. which is testing rigorously. Yeah. The minute someone, you know, feels a little bit of a fever, you pull them out of the food chain. That's right.

And it was, I felt way safer there. And then, of course, when we were done, we were coming back and spiking wildly again at Christmas after the Thanksgiving surge. And so I kind of felt less safe coming back into New York. I was like, oh, God. Yeah. I had this blissful time in Mexico, you know, feeling very safe. and now I'm back in the, you know, that's how I can happen. People are like, oh, you're going into work at Third Rock.

I said, yeah, I get tested every day. Yeah, every single day. I can't wait to get to work. I know. Like, no, I don't have it. Exactly. So. And no one else that you're working with has it, you know?

Right, exactly. You grew up in D.C. Yep. But you give off a very New York vibe. I had a desire to get to New York from an extremely early age. Yeah. I think like most people, You know, it comes from pop culture movies, things like that.

For me, it was FlashDance, which I only later found out was actually like Philly or something. But it was just that dream of like that big loft with like, you know, a torch welder in it and, you know, windows that were floor to ceiling and cement and, you know. And then you got here and realized you couldn't afford that remotely. Yeah, hope you like places with no showers or toilets. And that's exactly what happened. I know. What were those early years in New York like for you when you were trying to figure out your acting career and doing the bartending? It was great.

I'm not nostalgic for the having no money part, but, you know, it is that thing of like everyone's rolling around. You know, it's just, you know, you quickly, especially downtown, you find your neighborhood and your friends and your whatever. And it's, there's just something when everyone's kind of in the same boat in New York, I don't know how to explain it. You know, it's, you're spontaneous. You know, it's not like a place where, it's not like L.A. or any other place. You know, it's like you can walk outside, bump into a friend, they're going to a thing that sounds cool.

Then you sit down, you have lunch, you decide you want to do this. And, you know, it's just, it's a spontaneous city. Yeah. You know, honestly, the best, you never, it's that great thing of like you never are at a loss for something to do once you're plugged into it. And in those early years, you don't really know,

that you don't have money other than the fact that you don't have a bathroom in your apartment. Yeah, exactly. You shower at your friend's house. Right, exactly. You can find your people. Exactly. Pretty inexpensively. Yeah.

I don't know. I can't describe it. So you've lived here, done some time here. Look, there's people that also hate it, but I don't understand. New York also does a pretty good way of kind of not accepting the people that don't, right, aren't geared for this. Right. Right.

You know, there's a lot of people I've met and think, oh yeah, they're gonna be around forever and then five years later they're, you know what, man, I'm just gonna move. It's like, it's definitely not for everybody. Yeah, grind you up a little bit. Yeah, it does. What would those acting jobs pre-sex in the city

and all that, like what were the early gigs? Off-Broadway, I did a great play called Hide Your Loveaway about Brian Epstein, the manager of the Beatles. Yeah. I did a wonderful play called Shopping and Fucking. Mark Ravenhill play. Me and Kirkland Campbell, Phillips Seymour Hoffman, right here in 4th Street.

Yeah, plays mostly. And, you know, look, the odd soap opera extra. Sure. That's just some quick cash and get on a list and, you know, be an extra on a soap opera for four days in a row. Get that rent. Get that rent paid real quick. Yep. Not real quick, but get it paid eventually.

Right, right. But yeah. Did any temptation to go back to the stage? Do that kind of work? No, I don't really do. No? You know, it's so high stress and it's, which is, it's virtue in one way. But it's also, you know, I stopped.

It wasn't the plays that I wasn't into. I started to not love the audiences. from being honest. Really? Yeah, because it's, you know, a lot of times, most theaters now are some subscription houses. And I think, obviously, I don't want theater to go away at all. But I got really demoralized by kind of looking out in the audience

and seeing a lot of white hair and white faces, frankly, and thinking, this is not as vital as I wish it was. Right, right. You know, you do, you know, sort of off-Broadway stuff, it's usually more exhilarating. materials a little less stale. But for the most part, it's not something I want to... It's also a massive time commitment.

Sure. And I'm, I guess, sort of much more enjoying the doing it once. As opposed to night after night. Right, right. And you've done it. And I've done it. Yes, I've done it plenty. And also, you get a bad review or even a shrug.

And it's, all of a sudden, your houses are half empty. You're just looking at a sea or red velvet. it. And you still got to do it for two more months. Right. Right. I think this is not fun. So what do you like about this location, Justin, for Rays? You know, I bartended, like I said, over on Bleaker Street in Bowery for a long time, kind of spitting distance from here. And, you know, it's just, it's a young, still a young neighborhood. And for opening a bar, that's kind of what you want. You kind of want a place that's going to, you know, in order for business to do well, you want, you know, we don't really want to be on the upper east side.

Right. That's a different bar. You're suggesting my Lincoln Square neighborhood isn't half? Exactly. Maybe it will be. Maybe it's the new up-and-coming spot. It's coming back, baby. Exactly.

Just a great time with Justin and especially, I have to say, with Miss Kuma. My big thanks to Justin for spending some time with us, his new series, The Mosquito Coast premieres April 30th on Apple TV Plus. And my thanks to all of you for tuning in this week. If you want to hear more of these conversations with my guests every week, be sure to click subscribe so you never miss an episode. And of course, don't forget to tune in to Sunday today every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist.

We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit Down podcast.