Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Ke Huy Quan on His Unlikely Hollywood Story

Episode Date: September 27, 2026

Ke Huy Quan and his family fled Vietnam when he was a child, eventually finding refuge in Los Angeles, where he went on to become a child movie star in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom and The Goonies. Quan got together with Willie Geist at Phoenix Palace in New York City’s Chinatown to discuss his journey from refugee to Hollywood star, the years he spent away from acting, what inspired him to return to the screen and his Oscar-winning role in Everything Everywhere All at Once. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks, as always, for clicking and listening along. I have a really great conversation for you today that I think and hope you'll find inspirational with Academy Award winner Kiwi Kwan. Now, Kiwi Kwan, you'll remember just a few years ago, won the Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor, starring in Everything, everywhere all at once, the movie that won seven Academy Awards that year, including one for Best Picture. That marked a comeback, a big return for Kiwi Kuan. You may not remember, depending on your age, that in the 1980s, he was one of the biggest child stars in Hollywood. At 12 years old, he auditioned for and won a part kind of on a fluke. He went to this audition with his brother. Got a big part as short round in Indiana Jones in the Temple of Doom starring with Harrison Ford, Indy himself. That led the very next year to a part in the Goonies, which has become a cult classic. And so in the space of basically, one year. He had two big hits. He thought he was off and running, big star, a little bit of financial stability for his refugee family living in Chinatown in Los Angeles. They had fled Vietnam. But then this phone stopped ringing. His career totally dried up. He got some parts for a while there,

but he was sort of typecast and didn't find his place in Hollywood. Went back to college eventually and then work behind the scenes in Hollywood for 20 years or so and said, this is my career. He made a living and then he saw in 2018 crazy rich Asians and says as you'll hear him tell the story saw himself up on the screen and realize he did have a place up there and so kind of went for it and gets the part in everything everywhere all at once staging this huge comeback he's got a new book out it's called a memoir never say die it's a line borrowed from the goonies and it really tells and hits hard his story of growing up in Saigon. He was one of eight children, nine children actually. They lived in an apartment above his father's plastic bag factory. And after the Vietnam War ended, the communist regime took over. And his kind of people,

ethnically Chinese, were persecuted. So the family, the book opens with scenes of him fleeing with his father to the beach, try to catch a boat out of the country, being caught, being arrested. I'll let him tell all these stories. But his journey just to get to America, his family split up. He's on these crowded boats. He's in a refugee camp, ultimately ends up in Los Angeles where he's reunited and begins this long career culminating with that comeback. And now a bright career as an actor. He's made it all the way back. He's such a charming, sweet, thoughtful, smart guy, just a joy to speak with. And he and I got together at a great restaurant in New York's Chinatown called Phoenix Palace. It's a Cantonese restaurant. We sat down there. We went for a bit of a walk outside. But really, what a story he had.

has to tell. So sit back, relax, and enjoy Kiwi Kuan right now on the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Ki, I'm so happy to be sitting here with you to talk about this book and your life story. Thanks for doing this. I mean, thank you so much for having me. This is really special for me. I was saying to you a minute ago, I sat down and I've spent the last couple of days with you reading through this book. So it's amazing to be sitting here with you because I have so much I want to ask you. And feeling like the book, it reads like a movie. It reads almost It's like a novel, like a thriller.

It's joyful at times. It's painful at others. Why did you want to sit down and put your life story into the pages of a book? Well, first of all, I, you know, it was for a number of reasons. I felt like there was so much to my story that people didn't know about. And I wanted to, you know, I didn't want them to think that, oh, seeing that man jumping up and down on the red carpet, all that joy. All that excitement is, that's it. Because I feel like that is only one facet of my story,

and I wanted people to know the whole story. But also, let me share this story with you, really. One day I went to lunch with Phil Rosenthal and a bunch of his friends. And this was right after I had won the Golden Globe and had given that speech. Now, Phil is a foodie and a very generous man, so he ordered a ton of food for all of us. And I was just a guest. And when the time came to pay the bill, the manager of the restaurant came out and told us that the owner wanted to comp the entire meal because he was so inspired by my story.

Up until that moment, you know, I never thought I'd be in a position to inspire anyone. The manager put him on FaceTime, and I had the opportunity to hear his own personal struggles and how my story had helped him. through a difficult time. Now, here is a stranger I've never met, and he was telling me that I had given him strength and courage to keep going. And I was so moved by that interaction. And that was only one of many that I had since my return. And I feel that, oh, if I were to write this book and tell my full story and play just a tiny, tiny part in helping people through a difficult time, that would make this entire journey so much more memorable. So that's why I did it.

Yeah, that's a beautiful story. It gets at what we thought we knew about you and what's really your full story, which is we kind of knew the broad strokes. I think most people know you're a refugee from Vietnam. They know about Indiana Jones and about the Goonies, and of course your comeback with everything everywhere all at once. But the details of your story are what are so gripping in here

right out of the gate in the first chapter. you're a little boy, you're seven years old, you find yourself in your father's arms running to a boat. Can you talk about the circumstances around that and what you remember from that? You know, back then, I didn't know what was going on. Like I wrote in the book, I was only seven years old. Life right before then was great. I was, you know, I was one of nine kids in my family. I'm number seven

And I remember just You know Living in Saigon at the time Having the best time of my life My best friend was my little brother David And we would run You know in the neighborhood Barefoot you know

Just like with not a single worried On our mind And all of a sudden I you know I woken up one night And who I was Heading to the beach trying to escape with my dad and my older brother.

And before I know it, I was in jail. We were caught. We never made it out successfully. And I spent three weeks. That was the first attempt. The second attempt, we failed again, and I spent three months. So by the time I turned eight, I had already spent two times in jail. And by the third attempt, it was no longer a secret.

if you can pay, you would have a spot on the boat to get out, to leave Vietnam. And when that day came, I remember there were so many of us. It felt like half of Saigon were all heading to the beach at the same time. And when we got there, you know, the line to get on the boat, you know, was so long. It took hours. And when we finally got on, I realized that, We were not passengers on the boat. We were cargo.

And, you know, our dad led us to the lower deck. We were squeezed into a very tight space. Everywhere was just filled with people. And I was just trying to be brave and just trying to let my family know that I was okay when I wasn't. And we spent an entire week out in the South China Sea

before we reached the shore of Hong Kong and when we did that I thought wow we made it we survived I was so happy little did I know that oh they didn't want us they didn't welcome us we ended up staying out in the boat for another month

before we were allowed to come on shore that experience was so traumatic, and I guess, you know, for all these years, I kind of suppressed it. In fact, I never spoke about it with my family. It was not until I set out to write this book that I reached out to some of my older siblings who I know they had more vivid memories than I did. And it just kind of talks to it, and it was the first time that we ever talked about it.

And, yeah, that was quite a journey for all of them. Yeah, I think just for people watching and listening, where after the Vietnam War, the communist regime is ruling things in Vietnam. They're targeting in particular families like yours of Chinese descent. And so what did your parents, I think you just answered the question, the answer might be nothing, but what did your parents tell

a young boy about why you were being rushed to boats in the middle of the night and why you were being put in jail? How did they explain what was happening? They didn't. They didn't tell, they didn't tell a young boy tell me, at least not me. I was seven years old. And I guess in, you know, looking back, I think they didn't tell me because they were trying to protect me. This was, you know, right after the war and, you know, the majority of people living in Saigon at that time were ethnically Chinese.

And we were targeted because of the geopolitics between China and North Vietnam. And I guess they kind of viewed us as disloyal. Our loyalty lies with China, not them. So slowly, one by one, it was happening, you know, in the neighborhood, people that my parents knew. And to give you an example, I mean, my parents, when they met and got married in Vietnam, they had every intention of raising the family.

They're expecting we would all have a bright, future in Vietnam. And when they saw clearly that that wasn't going to happen, that there was no future for any of us, I cannot imagine the decision that they had to go through

to make, to make all the crazy things that they had to think about and to arrive at that decision to get all of us out in Vietnam. Because at that time, hundreds and thousands of people were

trying to flee. And only half of them ever made it. Half of it ended up at the bottom of the South China Sea. And knowing that, we had a big family, and knowing that odds is almost like 50-50, yet they still went ahead and did it anyway. So I can only imagine what it was like at that time for them. I was way too young to know any of this. But looking back now, oh my gosh, I'm so grateful for the sacrifices that they made because my parents gave up everything they had. They had a house, they had a very successful business. We were middle class for them to give all that up

so that we can get out of there. I cannot imagine. Yeah, and now I look at life very differently because our parents' kids, gave us a chance at life. And that chance more than anything is really what I'm grateful for. Otherwise, I wouldn't even be sitting here with you, you know. It's an incredible story. And you get split up, too. That's the other part of the story, right? Some of you go to Hong Kong, some to Malaysia. So the family has been split. You don't know

that you're going to see the other half of your family ever or when if you do get to see them. I mean, we were such a big family, the 11 of us total. And their idea was that, well, if we were to all, escape together, the chance of that is very, very low. So my mom took three of my siblings, including my best friend, my younger brother David. They escaped first and they went to Malaysia, and they made it out successfully on the first attempt. So my brother, David, had a very different experience than I did. He didn't go to jail.

To him, it was all an adventure. And, you know, sometimes we think back at that. I'm actually very glad that his experience was very different from mine because it was so traumatic for me. I felt like I was forced to grow up a lot sooner than I was willing to. So you take the first flight of your life, as you say, from Hong Kong to Los Angeles. Never been on a plane before. Did you understand at that point where you and part of your family were headed?

Were you excited to be out of the refugee camp and just going anywhere? What was that feeling like? I was excited to be out of the refugee camp. I was excited at the prospect of reuniting with my mom and three of my siblings. And anything beyond that, I didn't know. There was so much unknown. I only know that the place where we're going to was called Los Angeles. to a country called America.

I had no idea. It was not like back then. You know, there were like television sets and the refugee camp that we get to see shows from Hollywood. So I didn't have any knowledge of what it's like on the other side. I got on a plane for the very first time. We sat at the back of the plane. And it was a long flight, I remember. And then when we arrived, you know, and seeing.

my mom and my siblings said it was amazing. It must have been incredibly emotional for them to have freed themselves and their children from the place they knew was not going to be good for them. Yeah, and it was, you know, we were never a family to hug or shout, you know, shower each other with love. I remember when we met at the airport. Back then, you can, you know, they can come up right to the gate.

Yes. So when you walk out, you can see them. But, yeah, we just all stood there. Kind of awkward. I hadn't seen them for more than a year, a year and a half. And it was weird because it's kind of like stood there and go, oh, what next? Yeah. Well, that's the question I was going to ask you.

Okay, great. We're together. We're safe. At least we feel safe. Now what? We've got to learn the language. We've got to figure out where I'm going to school. who my friends are going to be, what life is going to look like.

So what were, for you, Key, those early years in Los Angeles, like, I'm talking before the movies. What was it like to be a kid in Chinatown, Los Angeles? It wasn't that hard because we lived in Chinatown, and we were in a community of people that spoke the same language. In fact, a lot of our neighbors were people from Saigon. They were friends of our parents. So there was a sense of familiarity there. Aside from that, there was this difficulty of learning a brand new language, assimilating into this new life.

And I was, you know, I was just being a kid. My parents, I think I'm grateful that they allow me that freedom to be kids while my older siblings had to work. They had to learn the language, go to school, at the same time, get part-time jobs on the weekends just so that we can survive. And I was, yeah, I was allowed to be kids with my younger brother and my younger sister. So you've got a relatively happy American life going, a great refugee immigrant story. We didn't have any toys.

There were no toys. I remember we had a 13-inch television set, and our pastime was either playing the parking lot next door, playing handball, or renting VHS tapes that were, like, you know, TV shows from Hong Kong. So we didn't watch, like, regular television like everybody else. Right. We were watch the call TVB dramas from Hong Kong, and that was our pastime. So then there's this now legendary trip to school on a Saturday. You can help me fill in the details, but you're taking ESL.

English as a second language. Those classes are on the weekends. So you've got to go back to school on a Saturday. So you go with your little brother, and he's going to audition for this movie, and you kind of tag along and help him through the audition. Is that right? Yes. So it was just a regular Saturday, like any other Saturday.

You know, my brother and I, my sister, we were getting coached. We got help with vocabulary and just learning how to pronounce the English. words that were difficult to us. And normally there were not a lot of people. Only the students that needed extra help, and we were one of those students. And as we were sitting there on the bench, you know, we started seeing people arriving and going into the building. We had no idea what was going on.

And there was more and more and more people. And we were curious. I said, what's going on? It's Saturday. Why is everybody coming to school and with their parents? And our tutor told us that they're having an open call. They're looking for a Chinese kid to be in a movie. And I go, movie?

And that was it. I mean, I didn't think any of it. But my brother was really interested. He was one of those where if he hears something new, you know, that excites him. And that's when he wanted to say, I'm going to give this a try. I'm going to go and see what it's like in there. So after the tutoring, I accompanied him into the building. And I walked in, and there was this long hallway with lots and lots of Asian kids reciting lines over and over again being coached by their parents.

And we were given aside. The casting director told David, he says, you know, you need to learn the lines that are highlighted. And I sat next to him and just kind of, you know, just just, just, just, looking at what he was doing and kind of looking at all the other kids, what they were doing. And I really felt like my brother had a good chance because I know him so well. We used to watch these shows and we would reenact and we would play and we would have all these fun together. So I knew what he was capable of.

And when it was time for him to go in and audition, I sat behind the camera behind the casting directors and kind of watching him do his thing. and when I felt that, oh, the casting director wasn't seeing him the way I saw him, I got a little nervous for him. So I jumped out of my chair and I started shouting directions at him because I thought he wasn't. Like, you know, the casting director was asking him to give these emotions like excitement, joy, you know, fear, anger, all of that. And he wasn't quite doing what I felt he was supposed to be doing. So I was screaming out directions in Cantonese.

Tell him, David, David, you should do this, you know. And when he was done and just as we were about to head out, the casting director turned to me and said, hey, do you want to audition for us? And I said, hmm, okay, yeah, I think I can do that. And because I didn't learn the lines. So I sat there looking at the sides going and then just read and I remember I sounded really bad.

It was very wooden. I was struggling because my English comprehension at that time wasn't great. But luckily, they, you know, they recognized that. They told me to put the sides away and said, Key, let's just talk. And they asked me a bunch of questions, which I felt it was weird.

Like, why are you asking me questions about my family, you know, about like my background, all of that? And when I was done, I didn't think much of it. And the following day, I went, you know, I was home. My brother told me that some movie company called for you key. And I didn't know what it was about, but my family got really excited. They thought, oh, this is going to be amazing.

They wanted me to wear yellow, so it's good luck, go red, so I can stand out, all of that. And my mom also was very excited and went through my closet and found a suit that I had worn to my older sister's wedding. That was two sizes too big then, but when I put it on, it was one size too small. The pants was like up to my ankle. And we got in a car headed toward Burbank Studios,

and that was the first time that I had ever left our neighborhood since immigrating to the U.S., because we didn't have a car. So I never saw anything beyond the parameters of Chinatown, Los Angeles. And it was such a super, real experience for me because going to, you know, the Warner Brothers lot,

Burbank Studios, you know, it was guarded, there was a security arm that we had to be led through. And I remember being in the car thinking, wow, this is weird because the last time there were security guards, we were inside and we were not allowed to come out. Now I'm being led in. Yes. So, yeah, so it was interesting. And then we went, you know, we were in lobby of Stephen Spielberg's office. I remember looking at, you know, he had a couple of posters up on the wall. I saw there was this man with a fedora and a whip over his shoulder. And I kept staring at him, wondering, like, who the hell is he, you know?

And not soon after that, a man wearing a baseball cap, jeans and a flannel shirt, came out and introduced himself. Hello, hi, I'm Steven Spielberg. We had a translator at that time. And the chance translator leaned in to my mom said something, which really made my mom jump because she got it really fast. And he says, Key, get up, get up, get up. He's the most famous director in the world. And I was just so awkward because I was so uncomfortable in this three-piece suit.

Well, also 24 hours beforehand, you had no idea you would ever be in any movie whatsoever. you were at school, and now you're in Steven Spielberg's office. But even then, like, it didn't really register what I was doing there. I mean, it wasn't, like, to say that, oh, my dream is to be in a movie. At that point, I had never seen a movie in my entire life. I had never been to a movie theater. All my experience of anything about movies or TV was that 13. inch monitor that we would watch at home at night over the weekends, and they were shows from

Hong Kong. So I had zero knowledge of Hollywood. Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Kiwi Kwan right after the break. Welcome back now more of my conversation with Kiwi Kwan. So you've talked to Steve in a little bit. Yeah. And then at some point the guy... I went back the next day. Yeah. I went back the next day. He let me into a room, and there stands a man with a beer and a mustache. I had no idea who he was at that time, and then a little tall man, a very good-looking man, I remember. And they introduced him as George and Harrison.

And I spent an afternoon together with them. And little did I know that I had just passed the biggest test of my life. Spielberg, George Lucas, Harrison Ford all sign off on you. You have good chemistry with Harrison, which was going to be crucial to it. Were you nervous at all, or did you just, was it such a unfamiliar, unrelatable experience to you

that you didn't even know to be nervous? Do you know what I mean? In the audition? Yeah, in the audition. With Harrison and any of that. I think it really helped that I didn't know who they were, you know, basically the most famous and successful people in Hollywood.

Yeah, I had no idea who they were. You know, Stephen had given me two scenes to prep for the day before. So I remember my lines, and then when it was time to do the improv scene of where indie and short run were playing cards. That was not in the original script. Stephen came up with that just for that audition. And I remember him telling me, he says, Key, so, you know, he told me the scenario, and he told me what is it. So we sat on the floor.

I sat across from Harrison, and he says, Key, you guys are playing cards, and you catch him cheating, and he's taking all your money. And you can just save whatever you want. And when he said action, I remember saying, like, you cheat, Dr. Jones, you cheat. And he says, can you prove that I cheated? And then the more he challenged me, the more I ran out of words. I didn't have any English words left to challenge him. So the only thing I did was I challenged him right back, but in Cantonese, I started screaming at him in Cantonese. And I heard laughter behind the camera.

And we did this back and forth for a little bit. And I heard cut. Stephen and George came over. And, and, you know, they gave me a big smile. They gave me a big hug. And said, Key, you did great. And then I was led out to the lobby to see my mom.

And my mom was really nervous. I mean, she really, she knew that if I passed the test, if they said, yes, if I get to be in the movie, it would make a big difference. to our family because it was at a time where we came to this country with nothing. In fact,

not only with nothing, but heavily in debt. It took so much to get the entire family out. So when I got the road to that movie, I was able to help my parents pay off that debt, and that made a difference in our lives. Yeah, I was going to ask you

what that movie did to your life. All of a sudden, everybody knows who you You're in the biggest movie franchise of that era. People know your name, they know your face. You're still just a kid. And now you write in the book all of a sudden, you know, there was some revenue sharing you didn't know about. There were big checks arriving at the house. How could you possibly have adapted to being a public figure when just a minute ago you had been this kid who just arrived in Los Angeles and hadn't left Chinatown for the most part?

Well, you know, it's interesting because I didn't know what to, I didn't even know how to prepare for it because I didn't know what was to come. The first time I went to a movie theater was at the premiere of Indiana Jones in the Temple of Doom. So the first time I ever saw a movie with a live audience, I was in it. And that experience was so incredible. It left such a profound impact in my life. And not only that, but also the world tool of that I was able to go on to sell the movie. We went to London. We had the royal premiere with Prince Charles and Princess Diana at that time.

And we went all over the world promoting it. Staying in the best hotel is flying first class. And I remember Stephen giving me American Express Travelers checks where I had to sign and exchange for local currency so that my mom could go buy stuff that she wants. She bought her first Louis Vuitton bag in Paris. That was something that I'm very proud of. So I didn't know any of that, and I wasn't prepared for it because nobody taught me how to handle all of that.

And all of a sudden, I was up on the movie screen, I was on television, I was, you know, on newspapers. Everywhere I went, people recognized me. And I guess I just existed in that space. I didn't know how to handle it. existed. But before I got way too comfortable, that limelight was gone. Well, there was some more limelight before it went away. Gounies came quickly after. Stephen Spielberg wrote that story, loved you clearly. It says we've got to cast him in the Goonies. And it's very touching, I think, the way you write about that cast and that experience because of the way your life had been up until

then you didn't feel like you really had a group of friends. It was very family-based at home. And you write in the book, being around all those young guys that you thought, oh, this is what it's like to have a group of friends. Yes. Yes, I never had friends growing up because I come from such a big family. My siblings were my friends. And also because I had such a unique background. When I did Goonies in the very beginning, when I hang out with my Goonies brothers and sisters, a lot of the stuff that they were referencing, I didn't know. I didn't have toys growing up.

So when they were talking about Hot Wheels or this or that or television shows, I had no clue what they were saying. But we had such an amazing time together, and they didn't treat me like an outsider. They treated me like I was one of their own. And it was such an incredible feeling. It was also a feeling that I ended up chasing for the rest of my life.

And yeah, that was the first time that I got to experience what it's like to have friends. And that's why to this day, I look back at that movie, that experience very fondly. It taught me so many things. It taught me that even though I didn't have the same background as them. It taught me that even though we didn't grow up on the same thing,

that you can still belong. You can still feel like you fit in. And it was such an amazing feeling to have. The legs of that movie are incredible. The fact that 40 years later, there are still kids seeing it for the first time. Maybe their parents are saying, you've got to watch the Goonies. What is it about that film, do you think, that has connected it so powerfully, not just in 1985, but in 2026 to so many people?

Well, first of all, you know, there was a famous line from the movie, which is the title of my book, You know, Never Say Die. I feel like that movie lives on, you know, it's going to live on way, way longer than we will. I think it's just this incredible chemistry, one, between all of us, they cast the right actors to play all the different roles. And also, you know, we were the outcast who got to go on this incredible adventure and found treasures that will save our homes. That theme alone really resonated with a lot of people. also for all those kids who didn't feel like they belong,

see themselves in one of us, see themselves going on this adventure with us. And I mean, I mean, I can go on and on about, you know, why that movie succeeded the way it did, you know, from the incredible story from Stephen, the amazing screenplay by Chris Columbus, the direction from the direction from the, Dick Donner because he didn't tell us how to act.

He allowed us just to be kids. We weren't acting up there. We were just being ourselves because when we walked on those movie sets, they were amazing. They were practical. They were real. You can touch it. You can smell it. It really feels like you were in those caves because we were.

That pirate ship, for example, that we got to see for the very first time and the reaction from seeing that for the first time is in the movie. It's a bunch of stuff. And what's really heartwarming is that I have met so many fans who have came up to me and said, you know what, that movie really made an impact

in my childhood. And as an actor, that's what you want. Yeah. And it holds up. People are still saying that to this day, I'm sure. Yeah. So as you mentioned, you've come off these two massive movies within the space of kind of a year, a little more than a year, but not much more. And you figure, okay, what's next? This ball is rolling.

It is rolling fast, and it kind of stops rolling. Right. two big movies. And I was, the next thing that I did was a network television show called Together We Stand. It was on prime time.

And back then, it was very rare to see somebody that looks like me to be on primetime television. And back then, what that meant was, you know, when it comes on, you were in the household of every American family. And I, you know,

and I thought, wow. So two movies, Now, a prime-time television show, great. My movie career is going well. But when that show got canceled after one season, I wasn't scared because at that point, I was working constantly. I've been working. I did a movie in Taiwan, came back, did that TV show.

So I had four projects going in before things change. So when together with Stan got canceled, I wasn't scared yet. but something happened to my father that really that was devastating to our family. One morning we got a call and we were all rushed to the hospital and found out he had a massive stroke, a debilitating stroke. So my mind at that time was I just hope he would be okay. He would be healthy again. He would be my dad again. and when I found out that, oh, things are going to change from now on in our household,

at the same time when I was hoping calls would continue to come in for me to work, it didn't, it stopped. So to have my career go downhill and at the same time to lose my dad was really, really difficult for me. You write beautifully about your father. I mean, you're so connected, going back to the first scene of the book, when he's holding you in his arms trying to race you to a new life to get onto one of those boats and ultimately make it. That must have hit you incredibly hard as a very still young man when that happened.

It was hard to see how, you know, because what I remember when I think about my dad, He's this very strong man with authority. He had his own business. He had so many people working for him. He was protective of all of us. He took really good care of us. And to see him after the stroke, not able to walk like the way he used to, not having control over his body the way he wants.

And also, not being able to speak properly was really, really hard for me. You know, especially when something as simple as counting from one to 100, in the beginning the therapist would come and would try to help him with his mobility and also his speech pattern. And one of the assignment that she gave him was like, you know, every morning you should count from one to 100. A simple task like that, he couldn't even do.

He would skip numbers. So that was very, very difficult for me to witness. You're grappling with that, and then you're grappling with what's happening in your career as well. And as you write in the book, you kind of decide, all right, I guess I have to go be a high school student, sort of a normal high school student. Yeah. And you're, you know, there's a scene where you go to a party at Corey Feldman's house. and you're like, I don't think this is my scene. I know these people.

They're all famous child actors of the 80s, but the things they're doing and you come from a pretty strict household, that's not me. So what was that identity crisis like for you, that you talk about even the day you graduated high school coming home and saying, I have no idea what I'm doing next.

I don't know what my future looks like. What were you thinking at that time? I remember being really depressed, being dejected. I don't think I had the wisdom or the resource to figure out why I was feeling the way I was feeling. I just remember, okay, I'm not working. So when I'm not working, what am I going to do? I'd go back to school.

And when I went back to school, I didn't feel like I fit in because all the kids there have friends that they grew up with. They went to some elementary school, the same junior high school. Now I'm in high school, but I haven't been to high school until when the jobs ended. So it was really hard for me to fit in, especially going to lunch to that cafeteria, walking in and kind of feeling like everyone is staring at me. And I remember holding my lunch tray and kind of looking around and feeling really out of place. and just because they all recognized me. They all knew who I was. And now I'm trying to find a spot where I can sit alone

because I didn't have any friends. And I tried that for three days. And it was so difficult. On day four, I said, I can't do this anymore. So then I would just go get my lunch and find a quiet spot where no one can see me and have my lunch there. That was what it was like.

And also, then I'm like thinking, okay, so how can I change the status quo? This is not looking good for me. And I remember looking at, you know, back then they had like teen magazines and you would watch TV and I would see my colleagues, the kid actors that I know. Even my Goonies brothers, Sean Astin, Coy Fulman, they were all doing so well. One movie after another. And I figure, well, maybe if I can go ahead. hang out with them, opportunities might arise. Like, staying home wasn't doing me any good.

So when I got the invite from Corey, hey, I'm having a party. Come on over. Yeah, let's do that. I got in the car, drove to his house, walked in. Oh, my gosh, I could not feel more lonely. I felt more alone and out of place than I did at high school. everywhere I turned, people were laughing and enjoying themselves, talking about the movie they just did or the auditions they just had.

Whereas, like, I haven't done a movie in a long time. I haven't had an audition. Forget about movies. I haven't had an audition in a long time. And I remember slowly, like slowly migrating to a corner and just standing there and just looking around and then I don't know how long I lasted.

It wasn't long. I got in the car, drove home. Yeah, and when I got home, I saw my dad sitting there watching TV. Uh-huh. And I wanted to tell them how I was feeling. But, you know, but we were never a family that shared feelings.

So it was hard, And I felt like we were both, you know, going through kind of the same thing, but in our different lanes. And it was really hard. And I wish, you know, I wish I had, I wish I knew how to cope with it. I didn't know how to cope with it. Aside from hiding in my room, that was in. Stick around for more of my conversation with Kiwi Kwan right after a quick break. Welcome back now to the rest of my conversation with Kiwi Kwan.

So what point key do you say, I guess this isn't happening for me anymore? I've got to figure out something else, which is maybe going to USC and learning about other areas of film. Was there a point where you just kind of resigned yourself to, okay, that was a chapter of my life? Right. Time to move on. Is that the way you were looking at it? It wasn't an easy decision. And it wasn't like where I had zero jobs for 10 years. I did have, you know, periodically, I would have jobs.

And every time an opportunity came, I would always think, this is it, this is my turning point. And I'm going to give it all my best, hoping that after this movie or TV show comes out, it's going to turn things around. So I've gotten some independent stuff, low-budget movies that I did. For example, a movie that I did called Breathing Fire, where it was an action movie. Then I thought, you know, I could showcase my physical ability. and when that came out, nothing. You know, no one saw it. I did a movie in Taiwan.

Again, another action movie where, and this was a good movie with a good director, and I did all the stunts myself, even when I was told, you don't have to do that. I go, no, no, no, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to earn my place in it. I'm going to, I want the audience to see how much effort I put in.

Again, nothing came out of it. It was not the turning point I was looking for. So after a number of years when I turned 25, so from 18 to 25, seven years, where I saw my own family, a lot of my older siblings moved out, started building successful businesses, creating a future that they really are passionate about.

Now, seeing my colleagues doing movies one after another, whereas I, you know, my future was looking so bleak, blind in bed, you know, sleepless nights staring at the, you know, at the ceiling, wondering if tomorrow is going to be better than today. And when that answer came back loud and clear, no, it's not. So I said, okay, now what can I do? well, I mean, I only know movies. That's my entire world, and I wasn't willing to walk away from it. So I decided to go to film school. You're resourceful.

Say, I know this business. There's got to be another way for me to succeed and make a living in this. And at that point, I didn't know about the movie business as well as I wanted to. I only know it from an actor's point of view. what's in front of the camera.

My fellow actors, the director, producer. But how a movie is built from the ground up, how is a shot, what does a cinematographer do? Why are editors important? What is sound design? I knew none of that. So I wanted to expand my knowledge and the one way to do it was to go to film school.

So I applied to USC. Thank God they accepted me. And I went and I had the most amazing time. also at a place where I felt like I belonged. I didn't have to try hard. I fit in right away. Everything that my friends were talking about, I knew. I knew the language.

I knew what they were saying. Mostly it was about Star Wars, Indiana Jones, or Back to the Future, all of that. Everything they talked about, oh, why is that scene so good? Why is that actor so good in that movie? You know, that character arc. I knew all of that.

So I was in great company. And you were doing great, you know, a great career going, stunt coordinating, working on all these movies sets. Did you have that entire time, though, in the back of your mind, boy, I'd love to get back on the other side of the screen at some point, or had you moved on from that? When I decided to go to film school, I told myself that that chapter of my life is over, being an actor.

That's it. I'm done. I have convinced myself to believe that. But working behind the camera, there are moments where that actor in me slowly crept back in. I'll give you an example. I was working for Wong Kawhi in Hong Kong

when he was shooting a movie called 2046. I was an assistant director. So I was behind the camera calling action, roll camera, all of that, row sound. And I was just a few feet away from Tony Lern. And I would watch him. And there were moments where I go, wow, wouldn't it be great if Calway can put me in this movie?

There were also moments where, you know, he would have me stand in for Tony for the camera. he would tell me what to do, where to stand, and I did it. And in that brief moment of time, I went, oh, wow, this is, I know this feeling. I'm familiar with this. And then very quickly, you know,

when they say, okay, we're ready to shoot, then Tony stepped in, and I had to step off camera. But then very quickly, I would just brush it away. Yes. Then there's a moment that becomes, as you were, writing the book, kind of a seminal moment in your life and career where you're watching crazy rich Asians, the 2018 mega hit. Like all of us, you love the movie. You thought it was funny and touching and all the things that it was. But you also felt something else. What was that

feeling? I saw the movie with my wife and had the best time. We went home. And that night, I could not sleep. We turned off the lights. My wife is asleep next to me. And I kept staring at the ceiling. And I kept replaying those incredible moments that I had just experienced. Seeing that cast up on the screen, laughing,

having a good time. That entire night, I couldn't sleep. I kept thinking, wow, wouldn't be great if I was up there over now. And then, of course, I told myself, I said, come on, keep it, be realistic. Come on. It's great. Time has, it's a different time now.

You've missed your chance. And, you know, I remember I was 48 at that time, 48 years old, thinking, well, I'm happy for my community. They're doing well, you know. The movie came out and became a, and became a. a phenomenal success. And over the next few months, I would see them do TV interviews to hear people talk about it,

you know, and how much people have enjoyed it. And every time I, that feeling of wanting to act again, come back, I would just remind myself that key, that is not realistic. It's a crazy dream that you even think, I can't even believe you're going there. You're allowing yourself to think that. Yeah, that was what it was like in the very beginning

when that idea of getting back into acting started percolating in my head. And sometimes you need somebody to tell you that your dream is not crazy. And that person is sitting in this room today. Yeah. Your wonderful wife, Echo. When you shared this with her,

what did she say to you? She looked at me, you know, all serious. Really? Are you really thinking about it? I mean, she didn't react the way I expected her to. I thought she would say, key, come on, that's crazy. She did. It was the opposite.

Is that what you really want? I remember her asking me that. Is that what you really want? Because prior to that, I told her I had wanted to. to be a director. And she always believed me. I don't know why. For some reasons, you go, well, if you want to be a director,

you will become a successful director one day. And I said, what have I done that show you I can do this? So when I approached, when I went to her with this idea of being an actor again, she just asked, is that what you really want? And at that moment, I didn't. I didn't have an answer. All I could muster was, I don't know. I don't know.

And she said, well, ask yourself, if that's what you really want, then go for it. And it took a long time. It took a long time before I made that commitment. In fact, it was a year. But it was also at that moment in my life where I turned 49, And I kind of see, I kind of felt like I had taken, so far, I have taken the path with the least resistance. I had taken the easy route. I had let time carry me forward instead of really going after what I want.

And what made a big difference to me was I had started hanging out with Jeff Cohen, aka Chunk from the Goonies. In fact, we had been good friends. We had started hanging out when we both graduated from college. And he told me that I'm going to start my own law firm. And that was in 2000. So now it's 18 years later. He has a very successful offer. He has many clients.

And one day we went out to lunch, and he was telling me all these incredible clients that he has. his life is going really well, and it kind of made me reflect back on my own life and where I was at that time, which was I was doing okay. It wasn't bad. I wasn't starving or anything,

but I wasn't excited to wake up the next day, you know. And I was at that point in life where at that juncture, that cross world, where I can choose to go down the same path where I know nothing's going to ever change or be courageous and try something different and go after what I love. It was at that point.

And it was really the fear of regret later in life when really when it was like, yeah, it's over. You know what I'm saying? Right, yeah. I also, also, I remember, like, the many conversations I had with my, the friends of my older siblings, were they, like, in their 60s, and they're talking about how, oh, man, you know, when they were younger, they had big dreams, and they just, nothing ever happened. And I said, why? He said, well, I don't know.

I just, like, I never really went after it. And I saw what their life was like. When they chose that path with the least resistance. And I didn't want that for myself. I want to, you know, one day die a happy man, a man without regrets. You certainly can do that. And there's almost a cinematic element to this that one of your co-stars from the Goonies when you were a child would grow up to become this lawyer who then gave you the push, the little nudge you needed and say,

yes, go do it, old friend, go chase this. So this is now out in the universe. Key's going to come back. He wants to get it back into the movies. When does the script for everything, everywhere, all at once, hit your inbox, and what was your reaction of eating it? I got myself an agent. Literally two weeks later, they called, my agent called,

and said, there was this little weird project from A-24, directed, you know, it's going to be written and directed by the Daniels. And I go, who? Dan Kwan and Daniel Shiner, I go, who? And they said, well, you know, they made this movie called Swiss Army Man, and they want to see you. And right before I was scheduled to go in and audition for them, my agent said, oh, by the way, they want you to read the script,

and they also want you to see the first movies to get an idea of what, you know, what their, you know, their, you know, their, you know, their, um, take on it is. So I saw the movie, loved it, thought it was crazy, wild, weird, all of that wrapped into one. It was such a weird premise. A corpse farting throughout the entire movie.

But somehow... What a tagline for a movie. But somehow, I loved it. I laughed and I cried, and I had... I went through all different, you know, kinds of emotions watching that movie. The script was in my...

inbox. But it was late. It was like after I finished the movie, it was late. So I try to go to bed. But again, another one of those nights where I couldn't sleep, because I kept thinking, that script is sitting there. I need to see it. So I got up maybe in the middle of the night.

Printed out a copy. I'm kind of old-fashioned. I still like holding it in my hands. Printed out, sat on my sofa, and started turning page one. and I kept reading it, and the whole time I kept thinking, I think this role is written for me because I understood every version of this character

from Tax-Wayman, CEO Wayman, Alpha Wayman, I can hear myself saying the lines, I can see myself playing the different versions of Wayman. And by the time I finished, the sun is already out. And I laughed so hard, I woke my wife up. She came out. I'm laughing. My tears are in my eyes.

And she thought something was wrong. She said, oh, my gosh, are you okay, honey? I go, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm fine. And she saw me holding the script in my hand. And he said, oh, and I told him, I said, I love this character. I love the script. And for the first time in my life, where I felt a role was written for me rather than asking me to fit into the role.

I had never had that experience before. I wasn't asked to fit in. I felt like this was for me. It was written for me. And so I went in, I auditioned for the Daniels, super nervous, of course, but I was well prepared. By that point, I had worked with an acting coach. I had never stepped foot in a, at this point, I hadn't stepped foot in a casting director's office for more than two decades. Thank God they liked it, but they didn't offer me the role right away.

It was not until two months later did I hear from them again. It was the longest two months of my life. Agonizing. Agonizing, yes. And those two months, all hope of me landing the role went out the window, but it was my wife that says, trust me. They're going to call you back. And they did.

So while you're making this film with that amazing cast, do you have a sense that you're making something good and special? You never could have imagined what was going to happen with that movie. But did you understand that this is a unique experience and this is a really good experience? I remember walking onto the set for the first time stepping in front of the camera.

I felt alive in a way that I hadn't felt in a long, long time. It immediately brought me right back to on the set of Indiana Jones, where it was so jose. joyful. It was so exhilarating. It was amazing. But at the same time, I mean, I'm still human, so there were a lot of insecurities. There were a lot of doubts whether I can still do this. And, you know, the first week came and went. the very you know on the last day of that first week i did a shot where i switched from one version of wayman to the next in you know in a split second and jamie le curtis came running up to me and said gee that was unbelievable sounds like her yeah and um and and and that gave me the conference that i that i needed

Now, did I know we were making something special? Yes. Did I know that we were making a good movie? Yeah, because the script was unbelievable. But, you know, we had a lot of fun. We all knew it was just this little movie. I didn't even know if people were going to see it. Certainly not, I didn't think we would win any award, let alone seven Oscars.

You know, but it was an incredible experience. That was one of those movies, the word of mouth, was so strong to, have you seen this movie? No, tell me about it. It's kind of weird, but it's really good. You should just go see it. And I think the people, the word spread, and then all this buzz builds now about awards for you and Michelle and Jamie Lee and the film itself. I mean, as your first step back into this profession that you hadn't really been. in as an everyday job for decades.

How was the spotlight this time around when you were in demand to be on the late-night shows and to appear all these places that might earn you the awards that you ultimately won? I remember when we premiered the movie at South by Southwest. It was at the Paramount Theater in front of, you know, with 1,200 people in attendance. The lights went down. The movie started. and when we saw Weyman whipping out his fanny pack and start beating him a bunch of bad guys,

the reaction to that scene, the cheers, the applause, the feeling that I had was the same feeling that I had watching Temple of Doom for the very first time. Interestingly enough, I think it was also the same. amount of people. And it was such an amazing feeling because I didn't know how the audience would, you know, react to my return back to the big screen. I was so afraid that they go, oh, my God, it looks terrible.

I don't think he should come back. All of those doubt, you know, crept into my head. but we had the best response that we could have ever asked for. And as the movie continued to play in the theaters, one of the things that really scared me was doing interviews and people asking me, so where have you been for the last few decades? I was really afraid, you know, that,

that people knew about my story, knew how difficult it had been. But the joy of having, you know, the gratitude of having this incredible opportunity to be able to come back kind of gave me the courage to share my story. And, you know, I remember every time I did an interview and sharing, some of the struggles that I had. I felt myself opening up a little bit, but then very quickly shut up, shut up, you know, closer to the right back out

because the instinct was to protect yourself. But, you know, the more we did, and also just meeting the fans in person at different events, them coming back and saying, it's so good to have you back. That was unbelievable. People were so happy to see you back. And I understand your anxiety and fear about coming back, how will I be received?

But it must have been so gratifying to have the whole country and the world throw its arms around you and say, we've been waiting for you to come back. It must have been beautiful. It was beautiful. And I'm really grateful for that. You know, I remember heading into the Oscar night. You know, I was nominated. Michelle was nominated.

We were going in with 11 nominations. And when I was, when my name was announced, I felt like, you know, there were so many people rooting for me to be up on that stage holding that Oscar. Because, you know, when you think about my story, how improbable that was. How can this guy who, yes, experienced some success. when he was 12 years old and then disappeared for decades. How can he possibly come back with this little movie and win an Oscar? So for me, standing up on that stage

didn't just felt like it was my win. I felt like I also helped them understand that they could also, their dreams could also come true. It could also be, you know, they could also win too if they just didn't, if they keep going, if they didn't give up. There was a lot going into that night. It was so memorable, so unforgettable. And yeah, I mean, I don't know how to describe it

other than to say, I'm just so grateful for it. It's so complex. I don't know what else to say. You touched on it in your speech that night, which is kind of your speech is a condensed version of this book effectively. You're a refugee story. You had all the success. And it ultimately is a comeback story where you win the highest honor you can win in your profession. As you stood on that stage, I'm sure your mind was racing. But did you feel the weight in the presence of your own story

of being a refugee and be on that cramped boat with your family and hoping you'd be reunited? And then being in that small house in Chinatown and having never left Chinatown until you met Stephen Spielberg. Did you feel all of that kind of rushing in? I felt all of that going into that auditorium. You said it. This book is the unabridged version of my Oscar speech. And, you know, it kind of made me think about my identity as a refugee immigrating to the United States. and what that label refugee really means,

the stigma and the shame that I had carried all these years. You know, we, because of that, I felt different. And being different back then was not a good thing. You know, let me tell you this. You know, the term fresh off the boat was coined to describe people like me and my family. We were, you know, we were constantly made fun of, constantly reminded that we were not enough, that we were not wanted, all of that. And what's been remarkable since my return is that now I'm able to look at my early years through a different lens now. I always wondered what my life would have been like if I didn't have that label.

And I'll share the story with you. After I won the Oscar, Kate Blancher reached out, and she invited me to Geneva, Switzerland, to be on stage with her for United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, a forum that they would hold once every four years. And we were going to be on stage and read a poem together. And the poem we chose was called Refuge by J.J. Bola. And we did that. Then I was invited to the archives of UNHCR,

and I didn't know what to expect. And I said yes. and they were so generous. They prepared a table with a bunch of documents, and I went through them. I saw faxes, memos, conversations that you and HCR had with the Hong Kong government at the time. Unbeknownst to me, I didn't find out until then.

The conversations that they were having while my family and I, and 30 hundred people, were still out on that boat, and they were trying to persuade the Hong Kong government said, please let these people come. on shore, and I promise you I will get them off your hands. At the same time talking to many different countries, France, Germany, UK, Australia, America. Okay, we have this situation. Will you please help?

So all that conversation was going on. And then I came upon a passenger log with all 3,300 passengers' name, and I'm just going through them. and I found my father's name, my name, all my siblings' name. And it was not in that moment did I realize. What it meant for us to be here? What it meant for us to be here? The sacrifices are our parents made. For so many years, I felt the shame.

Then, all of a sudden, that shame is gone. And I was able to look at those early years through a different lens. The journey that we went on was nothing short of miraculous. We made it. We survived. It was unbelievable. And now I wear that label proudly. I can talk about my experience proudly.

There's no more shame because, I mean, come on. so many people ended up at the bottom of the South China Sea. My family, all 11 of us, have made it out. And not only that, every single one of them are doing so well. They're thriving. They have beautiful families that they love. And, I mean, I look at my own journey in where I am now, and everything that we have is because,

because of that chance that my parents gave us. Incredible courage to even try to get you on that boat, let along make the journey. And as you said in your Oscar speech, this is it. This is the American dream. And I think a lot of people maybe will see themselves, whether they're immigrants or refugees, or they just feel outcast in some way,

we'll see themselves in your story and your family's story. Is that part of the message of this book as well? Yeah, I mean, to me, the American dream is to be given an opportunity to try, to fail, to get back up and try again. That's what I'm really grateful for, because, you know, without that opportunity, without that chance, none of this would ever be possible.

Of course, you know, success is never guaranteed. But if you were not given an opportunity, it's guaranteed that you won't succeed. And now looking back at, you know, my entire journey, what I hope the readers would get out of it is that, and again, this is in retrospect. I look back in my early years, late teens, early 20s, when I was struggling, when I was desperately wanting, you know, an opportunity.

now having the benefit of hindsight, I wouldn't change a thing. I'm so grateful for everything that has happened. So I would love for people to walk away from this and to be able to find whatever they're going through to find meaning in their own journey. Yeah, it's, you know, I mean, I don't know what to say, but other than the fact that I'm really grateful for everything that's happened. One of the great parts about this second go-round of your acting career

is that we talked about the ball stopped rolling after the goonies. That has not happened this time with Loki. And we're just talking about Zootopia and Kung Fu Panda 4. There's a long list of projects. What else is still ahead for you now is the world has kind of reopened to you and anything seems possible. What else do you have in mind? First of all, I thought I would never say this.

Writing this book has been such a challenge. I've never written one before. I never thought I would write one. It was really difficult for me on many levels, not only the writing itself, but also the emotional roller coaster that I was on. And also, you know, I was not raised to share so much

In fact, my family were very surprised when they read the book because it's not the brother that they knew. They were so surprised how open I was and how personal I got. And honestly, I mean, there were so many times that I thought, oh, you know what, I can't do this. I just want to give up. I can't finish this book. Again, another great example of how, you know,

you have to keep moving. In my case, I took it one chapter at a time, and that's how I ended up finishing things spoke. So I was mentally exhausted. And we got the book tour. But what I'm looking forward to is, and I never thought I would say this, because when I was younger,

I really wanted to work. I really wanted an opportunity to be on a movie set, to be part of, you know, a community that tells great stories. But now I'm actually looking forward to a little vacation after this. Hopefully my wife and I get to you to go someplace I love, we love, and just eat and enjoy some time off. And isn't that a great statement to be able to make that after all you've been through, now you're working so much, you need a break.

That is awesome. Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much. Congratulations on this beautiful book. Pleasure to talk to you. Oh, really? Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. It was awesome. Big thanks to Kiwi Kwan for a great, thoughtful conversation. Just one of the all-time great guys. Key's new book, Never Say Die, is out now. My thanks to all of you for listening again this week. If you want to hear more of these conversations with our guests every week, be sure to click follow so you never miss an episode.

And don't forget to tune in to Sunday today every weekend on NBC to see these interviews with your own two eyes. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit Down podcast.