Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Larry David on Bittersweet End of "Curb Your Enthusiasm" (April 2024)

Episode Date: November 3, 2024

Willie Geist sat down with Larry David to reflect on his surprising life in comedy, and the bittersweet end of his iconic series, "Curb Your Enthusiasm". He even decided to cast Willie himself in an episode of the final season, and Willie shares his inside look. (Original broadcast date April 7, 2024.) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks, as always, for clicking and listening along. I am absolutely thrilled to bring you this treat this week. My conversation with the one and only Larry David, as you may have heard by now, his iconic series, Curb Your Enthusiasm, coming to an end after 12 seasons spanning 24 years. He started the show in the year 2000. Most people didn't really know who he was at that. point. We knew he was the co-creator, along with Jerry Seinfeld, of Seinfeld. We knew he's a brilliant

writer and comedian. But then he stepped out to play this character that he says is a heightened version of himself. He says he's not this bad in real life. But as you'll hear in our conversation, he kind of copped to this being who he wishes he could be. But due to social norms, he's not allowed to be in real life. So I'm not going to do a big wind up. You know who he is. I felt so lucky to sit down with him. This was three days before the very last episode ever of Curb Your Enthusiasm. I should point out for the purposes of the conversation, Larry surprised the hell out of me about a year and a half ago and called and asked if I would appear in an episode. So I did have a role in episode four. Some of you may have seen it titled Disgruntled. I played myself where I interviewed Larry, who'd become kind of a liberal darling for

something he'd done. I don't want to spoil it if you hadn't watched. I went and interviewed him and things, as you can imagine, went south. It was a thrill to be on the inside to see how that show was made. It's true. There are no scripts. It's true. It's ad lib. It's true. Even if you're not an actor, say you're a news anchor. They just expect you to go in and mix it up ad lib with Larry. It was such a blast. So we got together at a place called the Producers Club, which used to be the improv, where he got his start in the mid-1970s in stand-up comedy in a very Larry David way. So we're sitting on stage in that very theater, having a great conversation about the end of curb your enthusiasm and so much more. Larry David, right now on the Sunday Sit Down podcast.

Larry, thanks for doing this. Oh, you're quite welcome. That did not sound sincere. If you could get anything sincere out of me, more power to you. We've already covered a lot of ground here, bathroom visits. There's been a lot that we can dig deeper into. But before we start, I want to establish where we're. we are right now. Not this room necessarily, but this building, which is kind of where you got your

starting comedy at the improv. Is that what I say? Yes, that's where I bombed hundreds, if not thousands of times. This is early days, right? There's a slight PTSD factor here. Sure. I'm already hearing, get off the stage. Hey, hey, you're funnier than this guy. You stink. Go to hell. You know, that's what I have to put up with. This is early 70s, right? No, mid-70s. Okay, mid-70s. So you come in the story? You know, 75 to 80 and then 84 to 89, yeah.

But you came first to see a show, I think. You correct me if I'm wrong, and you looked up and you said, I think I could probably do that. Yeah, I was watching, I came to see a comedy show. Yeah. And I was with my friends and I'm watching these, you know, I'm watching the accent. I'm going, yeah. I was funny this guy I don't know what I was thinking

and so I left my seat and I walked inside and I said who do I talk to about going on you know and they said oh that guy over there and that guy was Bud Friedman the owner of the club a legend and I walked up to Bud Freeman

now this is a Saturday night a packed house this is insane okay and I said to Bud Freeman can I go on? And he said, who are you? And I said, well, I'm in the audience watching the show. He said, are you a comedian? I said, no. He said, you can't go on. No, you can't go on. You got to audition and it's the whole process. I said, oh, oh, okay. And so that was kind of the beginning of it. He says, this is not an open mic night or not just take a number and go do five minutes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And the people who were on were good comedians.

They were professionals. Right. But still, you thought you were a little bit more than me. I thought I could do it, yeah. So when did you actually get up on the stage for the first time? A couple of maybe two months later in Greenwich Village at a place called Folk City, Gertius Folk City. I think Bob Dylan started there. Yes, he did.

So I found out from someone who actually did it how to go about this. You have to write material. You don't just walk up. And so, okay, so I said about the business of writing material. I didn't know anything. And it was really dreadful. It was terrible. I'm so glad that's not on video.

I could never go outside again. It was so bad. But yet, I went up. So I did it. I went up once. And if you go up once, that's all you need. And then you could keep doing it. That's what they say, right?

If you go up once, it goes even okay, you hear some laughs, you go, okay. Yeah. This is something. I want more of this. I want to feed this. Well, here's the thing. There was nothing I could do. I had, I was zero.

I've been out of college for four years. I couldn't do anything. I had no skills. I didn't want to do anything. I didn't want to work. I didn't want a job. I just wanted to play around, you know? just have the same life I'd always had.

Why has my life have to change now that I'm out of college? It's not fair. And so I wanted to keep the same life that I had and this seemed like the best way to go about doing that. What were you doing at the time? Were you driving the cab? I drove a cab. I was a chauffeur, a private chauffeur.

Is this the bra salesman era as well? I was a bra salesman. Yes, that's the bra salesman era. Right? As it's known. Yeah. Yeah. We did that on. Seinfeld when George became a bra salesman.

Yeah. Is that a door-to-door operation or how do you sell the bus? It's a store. It was a store-to-store thing. On Lower Broadway, there's a lot of stores. There was a lot of stores and they sold bras. But my bras were seconds. I had a bag of bras and I'd go into these stores.

I didn't sell one bra. It was ridiculous. They were seconds, too. They were irregular. They had threads coming out of them in holes. I don't understand what I was doing. So now this all makes more sense. Okay, I'm going to go do comedy.

None of this makes any sense to me. This is not gratifying. Right. I don't like this life. Yeah, I don't like it. And my parents are very, very concerned and worried. Right. As well, they should be.

Look at this guy. What's going to happen to him? I would hear over here conversations, what are we going to do, Morty? What are we going to do? He doesn't know what he wants to do. And so my mother encouraged me to take a civil service test. Desperate, desperate for me to be a mailman.

That was like her dream. Steady job. Yeah, a dream scenario working for the city, the government, whatever. That's what she wanted me to do. You get a pension. She would hammer that home to me every single day. And finally, I took the civil service test, and I think I flunked, you know. It may have been on the same time as the Yankee playoff game.

So I'm not sure I was concentrating. In fairness, you were distracted. Yeah, I was distracted, yeah. So you never tried being a mailman. That was out. No, I didn't. Failed the test, that's it. Yeah, that was it.

You've talked about your, it's so interesting, someone as funny as you are, talked about having really no interest in being a comedian when you grew up. It just wasn't something that was on the radar for you, right, growing up under the Belt Parkway in Brooklyn? No, I loved comedians. I loved watching them. But, I mean, I didn't think I was capable of doing anything. I really have a very low opinion of myself.

The fact that this has happened to me is miraculous. I can't even believe it. Because if you knew how I really felt about myself, then you would understand. No, how could I do anything? And I was raised that I couldn't do anything. I was told by my mother, you're not special. That's what she told me. So that kind of stayed with me for some time, you know.

That has a way of staying with you. When you hear that from your own mother? No, I just couldn't picture myself being anything of a success of any kind. So it's not that you didn't dream of being a comedian, that you didn't dream of being anything. Yeah, I didn't dream of being anything. Right. Yeah. Right.

A cowboy, maybe. You was a cowboy. Yeah, I thought cowboy. I liked horses, yeah. If you thought mailman was a bad fit for you, cowboy, really. I guess I wouldn't have worked. I don't think that was going to work. But I do remember when I was a kid, say, what are you going to be?

I said, I think I'm going to have a ranch. Really? Yeah, I do remember saying that maybe when I was 12, I don't know, yeah. Growing up in Brooklyn? Growing up in Brooklyn, yeah. Somewhere out west. Yeah, because I did like horses. I loved Westerns, and we did go horseback riding,

and at Bergen Beach, I think it was called. Yeah. And one time the horse just reared up. And just, I couldn't, I didn't know how to ride. I was holding on to the horn. And the horse galloped back to the stable. And I was holding out of the horn. And somebody was screaming and be,

don't hold onto the horn. What are you supposed to hold on to? What, the reins? The skimpy rains? I don't think so. Yeah. Anyway, you survived it, though. I survived it, yeah.

But you didn't get the ranch. Or maybe you did get a ranch. I don't know. No, I never got the ranch. No ranch. No ranch. So let's talk about what's happening three days from now as we sit here. Yes.

Which is the last ever episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm. Yeah. I think I know the answer to this, but is there any shred of sentimentality that comes with that for you? Maybe a shred, the slightest shred. Well, nothing's really Nothing's really hit me yet. So I can't say I can't say that I'm sentimental about it.

You know, we started in 2000, 24 years. I'm kind of old. Yeah, it's old. I'm old. Let's not beat around the bush. I'm too old to really be on camera every single week now. It's just to act the way I do on this show.

How long you want me to do it? How can I continue to act like that? It's insane. As an old, I could do it in my 50s and 60s and mid-70s. I'm not going into the 80s acting like that. It's crazy. Why? People love it.

They want to see it. They want it forever. It doesn't matter how old you are. I don't know. 24 years we've seen it. You watch to grow. Also, you know, you want to go out when, you got everything going for it

and when the show has everything going for it and I'm always concerned that the following season, this season's been it's been so good in my opinion I don't know. I think it's been good. Does that mean I'm, am I bragging? No, no, no, no. I'm not brag it. I affirmed it for you.

Yeah, I don't want to brag. I'm not a bragger. No, but... I'm a modest person. You know that. But, yeah, there's always the concern that, well, you're not going to be able to top this and then people are just going to start to hate the show it's not as good and having that

going in my head I couldn't live with that your colleague and director and writer Jeff Schaefer brilliant Jeff Schaefer who you've worked with since the Seinfeld days has said going back several seasons you guys have kind of made the finale of those seasons episodes that could

stand as a series finale in case you didn't decide to keep going Yeah, well, the season before, season 11, I was in the pool at the end for the last shot. Yeah. And so, you know, I conceivably could have drowned, but I'm not going to kill myself off. But it could have ended it. I could have ended it in season four or, no, five, the kidney transplant season. Yes, when I went to happen.

Yeah, yeah, I could have ended it there. And then you got thrown right back down. I got thrown back down. Yes, at the pearly gates. Yeah. They rejected you. They didn't want me to. Which raises the question, is there any chance in your mind

if this is not the end of Kirby or enthusiasm? No. No chance. No chance. Yeah. This isn't like a Tom Brady, Michael Jordan. No. Leave the door open kind of thing.

Yeah, no. No, the door is closed. The door is closed. All right. Now you're upsetting me, Willie. I'm trying to draw out some sentimentality. Leave me alone. What is it about this season?

Do you think that has been so special? Because I do agree with you. It's always the writing and the situations you put yourself in, but the casting, myself, not included, but... No, yourself included. But the big casting, no. I didn't mean to walk into that. You walked into it, and I'm staying with it for a minute.

You were fantastic on the show. A natural, you could be an actor if you wanted to easily. And by the way, you know, it's not that hard. You're given a line, you say the line. But you made them up. You made up your line. Well, that's the beauty of the show. The reactions are real.

And everyone since that has come out has asked me, it's not really, it's scripted, right? I go, no. There's a general direction of where we want to go and where we need to end to advance the plot. But it really was just that kind of interaction, which has always been. That's what makes it so much fun. I can't get through these scenes. The actors and the cast, they kill me. I couldn't imagine ever having more fun in my life than I did doing that show.

Yeah, it was so much fun. Well, I felt so privileged to see that from the inside because people think, oh, Larry's grumpy, the character and all that. I go, no, if you were there, Larry cracks up. Constantly. Yeah. In such a great way because it keeps it light and loose

and made me comfortable for sure. But you guys are having as much fun on that set. I can attest as it appears you are. I mean, the situations are so stupid. They're so silly. You have to laugh at it. I don't know how you get through the screaming matches with Susie. There's one near the end of this season,

which is one for the ages when she's upstairs and you're on the landing there. Yeah. I don't know how you get through those without just dying, laughing, the entire way. Well, what I do is I'll start to laugh and then I'll hold my hand up. Everybody knows that I'm trying to get my composure back. And then we continue. Yeah.

The other thing I loved watching was the way you guys worked together and Jeff and your writing team, which is we'd be sitting here doing the mock interview and Jeff would come over and you guys would huddle for many. Oh, that's good. Yeah. Like in real time coming up with that kind of thing. I think that's important for people to know that truly, I didn't memorize a single line. When I went there, I don't think you ever do. No, never. Sometimes, sometimes I don't know what the scene is. Sometimes I'll be in makeup and I'll go, what are we doing? You know? And they'll go, oh, we're doing this scene. I go, oh, okay. Because I wrote it, I know what it is. But, um, I don't do any, nobody does any preparation at all. So we just go in, we know what the scene's about, we know where we are in the story, we know we have to advance the story,

or whatever the story requirements are, and then we just wing it. And to do that for 12 seasons, you better have the right cast that can pull that off, right? Between you and Susie and Jeff and J.B. and Cheryl and all that. That group is incredible. Incredible. Great improvisers.

So incredible. All of them. Yeah. What do you think, Larry, is the draw and the appeal of this show that people love so much? I have my thoughts about it, but do you ever stop and think why people respond to you the way they do? Oh. I, all I think about is, what's the funniest show that we can make? I'm just thinking funny.

I'm not thinking anything else. whatever results come from that, that's what it is. I think when people are, and it's somewhat politically incorrect, and I think people like that, because we do deal with things that generally you're not seeing. And I think there's an element of truth to it that people like, and it's also dealing with a lot of issues that happen to people in their lives all the time. there are many things we deal with that are very relatable so it's a good that combination

yeah almost every situation I see in the show yeah I've been there and then the next part of that is I wish I were allowed to respond the way Larry does exactly that that's what's so cathartic about it for me because I'm I'm doing this character Larry who is really me, but me who can't really be in society

because I'd be arrested or beaten up every day. But here I have the license to really be who I am, which is that guy. And so, yeah, go. So what you're saying is, in real life, you are the curb, Larry David, but you've got to pull back the reins a little bit. I've got to pull back the reins, yeah.

Okay. Yeah, because everything the character, Larry David, is saying, I might not be able to say, although the more years I've been on the show, the more I'm pushing it. The lines have been blurred? The lines are getting blurred a little bit, which is great, which I love. But I feel like you can get away with it now and people laugh. Oh, that's Larry.

Yeah, I can see if you ask me out to lunch, I go, no, I don't think so. You can't say that. You have to make something up. Oh, let me check my schedule as opposed to just, no, I don't want to do that. We waste so much time with pleasantries, don't we? much time. Yeah. I think also you are, your character is pure id for people, which again saying things that you want to say. I always talk about the episode

where Susie and Jeff get a new house. Susie says, come on, Larry, I'll give you a tour, come upstairs, and you just go, I get it. Bathroom, bedroom. I think we all sort of feel that way. We don't need house tours. We don't need them. Yeah, thanks. I get it. I get it. Yes, there'll be a bedroom and a bathroom. And there's a little, yeah, so what? So what? It's a house. Because social norms suggest we should take the tour and say how beautiful it is.

And it probably is. Yeah. You're just saying, I'm sure it's great. I don't need to see it. I don't need to see your house. The other thing I noticed when you had me on those couple of days to do the show was you are picking up material. You were on your phone and you looked at me and you said,

now why when the texts come in, some are, green and some are blue. Oh, those green texts are scared. What's going on with this? The green texts are scary. And then you called Jeff, over, said, we've got to do something about this. Yeah, yeah. What's with the green text? Yeah. And it was such a real moment. Yeah. What is the green text? Yeah, well, sometimes they, if you text somebody, it comes up green and you don't know if they

got it or not. And then you're in a pickle because you're writing back, did you get the above text? And that also comes out green. It's green. The text came green. The text came out green. I don't know if you got it, but then that text came out green. So now, you know, you don't know what to do. And if you don't hear back, yeah. I've always thought that. I think we discovered it was, maybe that means it's coming from a different kind of phone or something. If I was, if we were doing another season, the green text would definitely be in there. The season was written when you were on it. So, there was no room for the green text, but that would be, that could even be the title of the show,

the green text. That's a great title. It's a great title. Yeah. I think even in that moment, Jeff came over and you started creating the episode. Like you were going to miss a funeral or something, but the text didn't go through, whatever it was. That's all, that's the, it was fun to watch that in real time. Another moment I remember, speaking of life's little annoyances, is the first time you came on Morning Joe many years ago for Curb. Yeah. You had like a Starbucks cup with the lid and had a little hole in it. Yeah.

We said, hey, it's season seven or eight, whatever. And you go, I invented this. Yeah, I did. Did you invent that? I invented the cup with the hole in it. Yes, I did. There's no question in my mind. They used to only give out coffee cups with lids.

There were never holes in it. I was driving a cab, okay? And with my teeth, I would make the hole. So nobody else, I never saw anybody else do that. I invented the hole. I invented the hole in the lid. I haven't made a nickel from it. Have you considered the untold revenue that you left on the table?

It's sickening to even conjure up. Does it haunt you? Yeah, it's haunting, yes. Starbucks owes you a lot of money, don't you? Yeah. Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Larry David right after the break. Welcome back now more of my conversation with Larry David.

I got to ask you about Springsteen on the show. Sure. How did you get the boss to do curb? I called his manager. I knew he was a fan. So I thought, well, yeah, I called his manager, and next day, yeah, he's in. Wow. And he was funny.

He was great. He was really good. Yeah. He, again, we were improvising. I didn't give him any lines. Jeff didn't give him any lines. He was making it up. The floor, you know, the floor blank.

That's his. He came up. with that. And he was really in that, he was good, just the same way you did it. I mean, it's very surprising when people who've never done this, come on, like yourself and like Bruce, and they're great. Yeah. He was really good. I don't want to give away it, because people still catch up sometimes in the episodes, but man, that scene sitting around the table is one for the ages, I think. Yeah. There's a lot going on. There was a lot going on in that scene, yeah. I think part of it, though, don't you think, Larry, is you make people like me or Bruce

an outsider to your world so comfortable right away. And you kind of put misplaced trust at our ability to do the thing that you guys do so well. Well, here's the thing. I've been doing it in a long time. And I know that we're going to get what we need. I just know it, whether I have to tell you every line that you have to say or, you know, however it turns out, I know that it's going to be fine. I've had enough experience. So I'm never concerned. Nobody's ever been fired. as far as I can remember. Yeah. And they always hit.

The Lori Lachlan casting was genius. Yeah. Was that your idea or hers? I don't, I think it was somebody else. I don't think it was my idea. But I forgot whose idea it was. But she was game right from the get-go to do it. She really leaned into it.

Yeah, she really did. Which is the smart play, right? Yeah. Yeah. I think the casting this year has been incredible. I've got to ask you about your dear friend. in the late Richard Lewis. Yeah.

He is, you've known him since you were kids, right? At camp? We were born three days apart in the same hospital in Brooklyn, in Brooklyn Jewish Hospital, three days apart. Then we were in camp together

when we were 13. That's where we hated, we started hating each other. And then we met again at the improv. He was a successful community. He'd already been on television and we ran into each other in the bar there and We were best friends instantly He said something like so there were many years went by I guess between camp and that

Yeah reunion. Yeah, and he saw something in your face I remember not liking that face Yeah, yeah, and you reconnected yeah You guys on the show were basically brothers like it seems like you were in real life. Yeah, yeah, and What did he mean to you off camera? He was just the sweetest guy. He would send emails to me and my daughters too. That would bring tears to your eyes. He was such a menschie guy.

He took care of so many people supported them, artists, friends of his, and people who were running out of money. It's so hard to believe that he's not here. It's just hard to believe. And I actually, I talk to him because I feel he's watching me. And I tell him to, you know, hey, leave me alone, you know, keep away. You've got stuff to do. stop watching me.

I loved him. Yeah, big loss. Yeah, to that point, I've heard after his death, so many people said, oh, yeah, he used to send me, like people in my business even, he'd see something on TV and he'd send a note. Yeah. I loved what you said.

That was so smart. He did a great job. Wow, I don't even know him. He found a way to get to me. Exactly, exactly. He's that guy, right? He touched everybody. Well, I'm so sorry about the loss of your.

Yeah. That is as close to a brother as you can have, right? Yeah, it's funny. So when I would act with him on the show, I would say things to him that I could never say to anyone, just because that's the way we treated each other. And ironically, there was one scene on the show where we were at some fundraiser, and I looked at him, and I said, he was giving me a hard time.

I said, when are you going to die? I remember. And, yeah. But I could never have said that line to anybody else. Right, right. Because I didn't have that kind of relationship. I knew I could say that, and I knew he would, whatever, how he would react he would laugh. It wouldn't matter.

He wouldn't be offended by it because we never offended each other. Yeah, he's, I mean, to know him that long in this setting and then to kind of grow up together. Yeah. It's brotherhood. And he was such a great comedian. He's so funny. The way his mind worked, you know what he would do? The only way he would ever get off the phone,

he would make me laugh hard, then hang up on me. Every conversation. That's how he got off the phone. It's a performer. Yeah. Right? Yeah. But he also drove me crazy, too.

Like, if he was going to be on the show, he would call and send, he would call up 50 times asking about the scene of the part. and what he was supposed to do and there were emails to everyone he was completely obsessive-compulsive about it to the point where it drove you crazy and boy he was hilarious right to the end these last episodes too

cheese and the car and all of it and he did something to you on that show too that I think was important for the show right as a foil in some way and to put into relief how absurd you were behaving yeah yeah yeah always Yeah, he's the best.

Well, I'm really sorry about his loss. He was such a funny guy. Yeah. And you were talking about your days in comedy here with Richard, the improv, and around New York. And then at some point you meet Jerry, 76, 7. 76. Somewhere in there.

And you've become buddies, right? Yeah. Not really like going to the movie buddies, but, but club you know seeing them at the clubs and all that and we used to we used to write together

he's the only one I ever did that with we'd go to Central Park I'd bring my premises he'd bring his and I would tell him and then we'd kind of try and punch it up for each other and he read one of a script

I wrote that he liked a lot and then when he was becoming popular on television NBC approached him for a show and he called me up. He's funny talking about you as a stand-up, which is he thought you were hilarious. Yeah.

But you had a little antagonism for the audiences sometimes. You know, I just couldn't do what was needed. Like coming out and being nice. Hey, you know, his comedians come out and they come, I say, hey, how you doing? Hey, great to be here. Hey, hey, nice to see. I couldn't say that.

I couldn't do it. You couldn't bring yourself to say hello. I couldn't bring myself to say, hey, hi, hey. Even now it pains you to try to act it out, right? Hey, everybody. Hey, hey, how's it going? How are you doing? Because the truth is you're not interested in how they're doing.

Yeah, also a lot of my materials stunk too. So, you know, that was a problem. And you resented them for not laughing at it a little bit, right? Totally. Yeah. Totally. It would really get on it. It would really get onto my skin. So then if that's true, I'm sure you're underselling yourself. But how do you get the job on SNL in 84? How did that come together? Oh. Well, you know, I did a show before that. Friday. Yeah. Yeah. So I was on that. So that gave me some very little, but some little. A soup son of credibility. and I knew some guys who were on the show, and I think they pitched me. And in that one season, you got one sketch on.

Right, right, right. Going up the elevator sketch, right? Yeah, yeah. Should they have the stool in the elevator? Yeah. Right, and we did it on Seinfeld. Yeah, right. And so why did that last one year for you?

It just wasn't right for you, SNL? Well, Lorne came back the next season. Right. And I think he got his own new staff in. And that was that. I was out. That was like that. Goodbye.

But then good things happen, obviously, when you and Jerry start working on Seinfeld. Yeah. The early discussions about that were two of you kind of walking around and experiencing life in New York and thinking maybe, this is a show? Is that fair to say? Well, it started with the two of us in a grocery store talking about breakfast cereals or what have you.

And, you know, we were kind of funny with each other. And we went, yeah, this is what the show should be, this kind of dialogue, which I never heard on television. The kind of discussions that we would have. And so that was in my

head when the pilot had to be written. But given what was on TV at the time and what had been successful in the past, what you're describing maybe doesn't feel like a big, broad national comedy hit, which it obviously became. No, not at all. I wasn't even thinking of it that way. I just wanted to get through the pilot.

I just have that. Right. And then that got picked up. And then we got picked up for four shows. So now there's four more. And I had no experience writing. half an hour. I didn't even know how to do it, really. I didn't even know the format. But, you know, trial and error. You get better at it. And eventually, I developed sort of a formula.

When did it click? Because it wasn't instant. I think Jerry still has the review from the test audience in his department. Yeah, I've got one of those two. Do you have one too? Yeah. They didn't respond well initially. No. But there was some patience from at least one, maybe two executives at NBC. Yeah, a guy named Rick Ludwin champion the show. Right. And so at what point did you guys feel like, okay, now the audience gets what we're doing here and we're off to the races?

Do you remember that? Well, certainly when they moved us to Thursday night, we were on Wednesday night, I think at 9.30. And then they moved us to Thursday night after Cheers. at 9.30, which was like a cushy spot. Yeah. And some reporter called me up and said, well, what do you think about that? I said, well, I said, if they were, if they were, I said, if they weren't watching on Wednesday, I don't want them watch it on Thursday.

Not the PR NBC was looking for it. No, I don't think so. But I meant it. I mean, now you're going to watch it because it's not after cheers because you're too lazy to, to change the channel, why didn't you watch it on Wednesday? Those are the people I wanted to watch it, the people who were watching. But it worked. Yeah, but that's when it sort of changed.

Yeah, and the numbers are wild. I mean, if you look at that finale in 98, what you came back for, it was 76.5 million people. Yeah. Or something like that. I guess. When you look back on it now, 25 years later, can you believe how broadly popular a show about you and Jerry in the grocery store became across the country.

Like I said earlier, anything that I do that's successful is a surprise, yes. So, yeah, I don't know. I don't account for it. So you're still surprised, even that curb is that you hit. I'm still surprised, yes, I am. Stick around for more of my conversation with Larry David right after a quick break. Welcome back now to the rest of my conversation with Larry David. Now, we don't want to give anything away, but how did you approach the finale of a curb?

How did you want to put a bow on this experience? Oh, boy, oh boy. This is difficult to talk about now. If this show is, if we were coming out after the finale, then we could talk about it. But I don't think I can give you anything. Nothing. No, nothing. It's probably better that way.

Yeah. Just watch. Yeah, just watch. Watch tonight. Yeah. Is any of the approach to the finale colored by the Seinfeld finale? I'll put it that way. No.

No. Okay. Well, you're just a vault over there, aren't you? You know what? You could tell me, you could share intimate secrets with me and be very confident that I'm not going to tell anybody. That's good to know. I'm very discreet, very discreet. I don't tell anybody anything.

I'm going to whisper a few things to you later. People know, people know they can confide. I have a couple of good qualities, and this is one of them. You can confide in me and be certain that I would never tell a soul. Take it to the grave. That's good, that's a great quality. It's a good quality, right? See?

It is. I'm not all bad. There you go. Yeah. We found it. Yeah. Good going. Last thing, Larry, do you think?

do you think about what's next for you professionally? I try not to. Okay. But there's a next, right? Well, hopefully, yeah. But we have no idea what that is. No. Okay.

Might be golf. It's going to be a lot of golf for a while anyway. Maybe. Larry, thanks so much. Sure. Great to see you. Good to see you. After we sat down there at the site of the old improv,

where he got his start in stand-up comedy, Larry and I walked outside in New York's Hell's Kitchen neighborhood where he also lived. We're a little all over the place. Bear with us, but I think you'll enjoy just hearing raw unfiltered Larry David. He showed us two of the apartments where he lived. He showed us the fruit stand where he once returned peaches because they were not to his liking. You cannot return produce, it turns out. That became a famous Seinfeld episode where Kramer tried to return his produce. Larry, as you may know, lived in an apartment building. He takes a us to where his neighbor was a guy named Kenny Kramer. Seinfeld's Kramer was based on the

real life Kenny Kramer. We also happened upon totally coincidentally the diner called Westway Diner where Larry says he and Jerry Seinfeld first sat in 1998 and started to conceive of Seinfeld. In one of those booths, they dreamed up the most successful comedy in the history of American television. So here it is. Larry and me out on the streets of New York's Hell's Kitchen. Does this neighborhood bear any resemblance to the way you remember it? All the stores have changed. Every, every single one. There's not.

Oh, wait a second. The West Way Diner. That's been here forever. That's where Jerry and I went to talk about the show. Is it really? I swear to God, yeah. Wow. That's where we first started talking about what the show was going to be right here.

That's a historic landmark then. Tucked into a booth figuring out sign film? Yeah, exactly. Wow. Yeah. How are doing? And there was a fruit stand over there. Let's see.

There may still be more. All of these are different. The Westway diner is the only one I recognize. So you lived around the corner and that was your diner. Well, I lived around the corner, yeah. But there was a fruit stand right over there. That's where I got banned from. Which became an episode.

Which became an episode, yeah. Hey. Did you really try to? to return the fruit? I tried to... It was bad fruit. He gave me bad fruit. Did you have bites out of the fruit and then walk in? No, there were no bites. I'm sure I had

one and it was terrible and then I wanted to return the others. What's wrong with that? Let's return the others. I think that's fair, actually. This building was not here. I don't know what this is. Wow, look at this. But I had one apartment up there. That was from like 19...

I moved in there in like 70. two or three. And then I lived in that high rise down there. That's Manhattan Plaza. That's the same building? Yeah. Yeah, that's still there. Yeah. Do you remember these years as exciting, happy, fun? I don't remember as being particularly happy. You know what's fun? The improv we had a softball team. I had the Broadway show league. That was a lot of fun. Yeah. That was a That was the highlight. That was great. Otherwise. Otherwise. No. When I would go home at night from the improv's around the corner. So my apartment was over there. When I would go home at night because it was such a terrible neighborhood, I would pretend to be a drug addict. So I wouldn't get mugged. So I would

I'd be walking home like this. And people would stay away. Yeah. You did what you had to do in the 70s in New York. That's what you had to do. Yeah, how you doing? So, Larry, you're from Brooklyn. By the way, there was a, there used to be a grocery store over here, and I would go in there at 3 o'clock in the morning. This is like, hey, blinking, you know. I had a tropicana bottle filled with pennies. I would come to this grocery store at 3 o'clock in the morning.

I would empty the pennies out. I swear to God, I'm not making it up. I would empty the pennies out on the counter. I'm just telling you, so it's not a woe was me. It's just something that happened. So I would empty the pennies out on the counter and get like a can of Chef Boyardee. Sheff Boyardee. That clerk loved to see you coming.

Uh-oh, here's the guy with the pennies, dumping them onto the counter. That park is still there. Yeah, that's a classic. So are you, Larry, you've been in L.A. long enough. and certainly on curb, you feel like an L.A. guy. But it's your core, you're a New York guy. How do you look at it?

No, I'm... You know, a lot of New Yorkers move out to L.A. And they start rooting for the L.A. teams after two or three years. Right? I've seen it? Yeah. No. Not me.

Still... Still for all the New York teams. and to your credit you've not succumb to the Lakers No no no no uh-uh no but

you know when I come here it's just I just know who the people are I mean I I don't know I just feel at home I like the warmer climate

Yeah I was going to say the golf is a little better The golf is a little better, but other than the golf, yeah. And the traffic is not quite as horrible. In L.A.? Yeah. Really? I don't think so. Yeah, I was trying to get from downtown the 57th Street yesterday.

Oh, in the rain. Miserable. It took about, you know, 45 minutes ago. No, that's miserable. Yeah, that was it. That's true. That was your apartment up here or we just walk in at this point? No, it's right up here.

Oh, it is? Okay. Yeah. So is this the first apartment? Yeah, this is, no, it's my second apartment. I lived on 72nd Street for one year. Then I moved here in 73, I think. My father owned half the building.

He inherited it from his aunt with his sister. And so I had a rent-free place. Wow. But the porno chapter of the world was right around the corner. Right. Yeah, we're right there. Yeah, we're right there. Walking distance.

Yeah, it's right. Right there, 42nd Street when it was in its glory and glory with quotation marks, right over there. So that, you know, that's the neighborhood. And the improv was right around the corner. So you had everything you need? Yeah. Port-0 Improv. Yeah, exactly.

Do you remember what floor you were on? I was on the second floor. Okay. And it was tight. Tight and not luxury living. Very, yeah, very, like a railroad of two rooms. The kitchen was this, the size of this. Yeah.

It's New York, yeah. And at night, when I'd come home, I would take my boot off, my army boot, and I would go into the bathroom and turn the light on and attack the roaches in the top. Yeah. It was a routine every night? Every night, yeah. Light on, boom, boom, boom. Was the army boot from your time?

I'm in the reserves with the petroleum storage unit? Oh, yes. Yeah, I had, I wore those. That was my, that army jacket was my winter coat for a couple of years. Yeah, it had my name on it. And again, I took credit for the hall in the coffee cup. I'm going to take credit for the Army fatigue jacket. As a fashion.

Right. Yeah. Right. Because a lot of people, I noticed after I was walking around with it for a couple of years, I noticed they became popular. And you had the Army jacket and also the Navy Peacote. Came into vote. That too?

That too. Wow. But I didn't do it with the Peacote. I think people said, well, they're wearing the Army stuff. I'll wear the Navy thing. Right. Yeah. So it went from becoming a uniform, something practical.

Yes. To a fashion item. Yeah, exactly. Led by you. Yeah, I also would like to take credit for jeans. Jeans. Yeah. Yeah, because I was wearing jeans very early on,

and I didn't notice a lot of people wearing them. With the Army coat? With the Army coat, yeah. Yeah, for sure. A lot of people wouldn't think to pair those. No, no. Very forward thinking. I will say your fashion between real life and curb is similar.

Is that fair to say? Well, it's fair to say because it's the same. Same thing. No, I haven't shopped in 24 years. You just take it off the rack, right? Yeah, I take it right from the show. Yeah. But now I'm going to have to start buying my own clothes, I guess. I feel like these can hold up.

By the way, there was an article about me from somebody. I don't know who it was, that said I was some kind of fashion, you know, icon. You saw that. I saw it. Yeah. Yeah. Did you see it? It is a look.

I did. Yeah. It is a look, right? Kind of a casual blazer. I don't like to tuck in. That's the thing. Right. Like shirts, button shirts, you have to tuck in.

That's it, right. So that's why I don't wear those shirts. Yeah. All right, careful. Careful. What I like is you're consistent with the fashion, too. Whatever the environment, you stay with the look, right? Positively.

Yeah. But I did, I did notice because I had to put this clip real together for the show, and I had to look at old shows. The wardrobe was much different in the first. two seasons oh is it yeah what were you wearing back then jerry used to call it uh my my upper west side communist look yeah where's the fruits oh i see okay oh okay i get it my fruit stand it's over here right there yeah yeah this one this one i wasn't here oh yeah yeah so it wasn't this fruit stand but one like it No, it was, this is outside.

The one that I went to was over there. It was inside. Because on Seinfeld, he went into the shop. Yes, that's what it was. And then he sends Georgia. How are you? And then Kramer sends Georgian, and the shop owner is onto it. He sees what's going on.

Yeah, exactly. Oh, he was so pissed at me when I came back. This Italian guy, his name was Joe. and he was so pissed when I came back with those peaches or whatever they were no no

no you can't return it you bought the fruit you keep it you eat it and you know what I don't want to see you in here ever again you bend

what was the complaint not soft enough too soft not ripe on the peaches I don't remember it takes a lot to return produce

or maybe not you know produce is very tricky. You gotta get it on the right day. Don't you think? Yeah. And I don't always know, like with the avocado. And sometimes they don't let you touch them. No, hands off. Hands off. That's tough. You touch it, it's yours. Exactly, yeah. So now it's just a, you know. Yeah, it's a guessing game. It is. Fruit's a guessing game.

It's a dangerous game. Yeah. Yeah. The cantalopes, you know, all of it. A cantaloupe. Are you supposed to buy that without touching it? Right. Right? When you pick it up, it's rock hard, you're in trouble, but it's yours. Yeah. I'm wondering if the market should have somebody who knows the fruit, who works for the market, and directs you to the best fruit. That's a good idea. And so when your hand directs to one, he goes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

Not a terrible idea. So I moved into this building in... in 77. This is subsidized because of the neighborhood they couldn't sell the apartments. So the federal government took it over.

And it was a building for artists. Oh. Yeah. So it was affordable for a guy trying to find his way in the world of comedy. So I had a studio apartment for $57 in 1977.

That was my rent because of my, it was based on your internet. income. Ah. And that was, I wasn't doing so well. Yeah. Okay, so this building I moved into in 1977 and I went to Los Angeles in 79. I came back in 84 and I wanted, but I, I didn't have my apartment anymore, but I wanted to sublet, they don't allow a sublet. But I knew a guy who was going to L.A. and we switched apartments. So I came, I took his apartment, he took my apartment.

The problem was, they don't allow you to sublet, so I couldn't get into the building. They had a security guard, I couldn't get in. The only way I could get to my apartment that I was subletting was to buzz, to sign in my name, where I was going. I'm going to Kramer, the real Kramer, I'm going to Kramer's, and so they would buzzer,

So they would buzz Kramer, Larry David. This is four years. Larry David here to see you. Kramer never left the apartment. Kramer goes, yeah, send him up. So I'd go up and I'd go into my apartment. This is when you're living here. That's how you got to your apartment.

Yes, I had to get buzzed into my apartment. Even like, come home at 3 o'clock in the morning. Mr. Kramer, yeah, Larry David here to see you. Send them up. And doorman. never caught on? Oh, they all knew, but we all went through the motions. That was their job.

They couldn't let me into the building. Sometimes Kramer wasn't there, but I had a list of people who I could call. Oh, you had some backups. I had some backups, yeah. So if Kramer wasn't there, I'd call the backup. And sometimes, sometimes I'm out here waiting. Yeah. Yeah.

Late at night. But it's an odd way to live. It is. Yeah. Certainly. Yeah. So this was where the famous Kramer neighbor lives. Yes.

And how much like the Kramer we know was the real Kramer? Only for their propensity to kind of stay in the apartment and avoid employment as much as possible. Yeah. That's what they had in common. And what did the real Kramer think when Seinfeld became a thing? He wanted money to use his name. And they gave it to him. Oh, they did?

Yeah. Oh. So it worked out. Yeah. Stay in the apartment. And then he did this thing called the Seinfeld Reality Tour. We would take people. First he'd show him some clips or some of me, some stuff of me and stuff from the show.

And then he would put him on a bus. Yes, that's right. And take him around the city and say, oh, this is where the soup nuts he was. was right this is where somebody was in the hospital the diner all the way up yeah yeah yeah that's yeah that's right that's right i knew that you know he got his cut yeah but it was a great building it had a gym and had i had a five tennis courts that's right in between the two buildings there was a pool yeah living pretty well compared to the other town yeah yeah it was pretty good and all you had to do was get buzzed in yeah that's that that was the downside my huge thanks to

Larry for a great conversation, for showing us around his old neighborhood, and sincerely, for I don't know why he did it, but dropping me in to the final season of the great curb your enthusiasm. Thank you, Larry. You can check out this final season and every past season of Curb Your Enthusiasm streaming on HBO Max. My thanks to all of you for listening again this week. If you want to hear more of these conversations with our guests every week, be sure to click follow so you never miss an episode. And don't forget to tune in to Sunday today every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist.

We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit Down Podcast.