Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Lena Waithe

Episode Date: December 8, 2019

Just over two years ago, actor, writer, and producer Lena Waithe made Hollywood history when she stood on stage with an Emmy award in her hand, and she’s been on a roll ever since. In this week’s “Sunday Sitdown,” Willie Geist talks to Laithe about how that Emmy changed her life, and her new movie “Queen and Slim” that has people talking. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks as always for clicking and listening along. I got a good one for you this week. My guest is Emmy winning actor, producer, writer, director, and everything else you can possibly be in Hollywood. Lena Waith. She is truly one of the brightest young stars in Hollywood. Lina won her Emmy writing an episode of Master of Nun. That's the Aziz Ansari Show. She also starred in the episode entitled Thanksgiving, which is the story of her coming out as gay to. her own family. She also created and wrote the show The Shy, which has a big audience on Showtime, and her current film is called Queen and Slim. It's got a lot of people talking. We'll let her explain the premise of the movie, some of the controversy behind the movie. You also might know her from Ready Player One, the Steven Spielberg film. He handpicked her to be in that movie. And she's going to be starring in Westworld coming up as well. She's got a lot going on in her life. Comes from Chicago when she was a teenager, she moved to Evanston, Illinois, which is on the sort of precipice of being a suburb. It basically is a suburb, but a close in suburb.

And she talks about how moving to that more diverse area around Chicago sort of broadened her view. She gets into a bunch of her inspirations, interesting for a young woman to grow up wanting to be a TV writer, not necessarily an actor because of the shows, the faces, and the stories she saw on TV like the Cosby Show in a different world. She's a fascinating woman, a talented woman, great to talk to. I think you're going to really like, if you don't already know, Lena Waith. This is your introduction to one of the biggest stars coming up in Hollywood. Here now, my Sunday sit-down conversation with Lena Waith. Lena, thanks for doing this. I appreciate it. Thank you for having me.

I told you I'm about an hour out from having finished the film. My heart's still beating out of my chest. Congratulations. It's incredible. Thank you so much. Let's go back to the genesis of it, how it came to you. James Fry brought to the idea. Yeah, I mean, I was at a party in Hollywood, as they say. I was with my wife and, you know, I was just standing there and James Frey came up to me.

And I know who he is. He introduced himself. He said, hey, I have this idea for a movie that I can't write. And I was like, well, what's the idea? And he's like a black man, black woman on a first date, on their way home, get pulled up by the police, which is never a fun thing for a black person. Things escalate very quickly. They kill the police officer in self-defense and decide to get in the car

and just go. And I was like, yeah, you can't write that, but I can. I was like, I think it's a really interesting idea, interesting starting point. He had an outline, another title, and I was like, I don't want any of that. I just want that nugget. And I was like, you know, obviously, in fairness, I'll share story by credit because you planted the seed, but I really wanted to grow the tree on my own and do it myself. And he didn't have any issue with that.

He was like, go for it. And so I did. And I really just started the process of developing these two characters that were kind to become this algorithm for all of us as a people and just sort of what it's like to try to survive and find joy and love while drowning in oppression. So did you change his idea much? In other words, was his a story like fought out? Yeah, I think he had some thoughts about it, but I had different thoughts. I really wanted to really take it from, I wanted to have it be a jumping off point for me for a movie. And so yeah, but the thing about the first day and them getting

pulled over and they're killing the police officer and self-defense. All that stuff stayed, but everything else around it I really created and just tried to find the world on my own. So as you took this kernel of an idea, what did you see in it that you said, oh, I can tell a bigger story about our culture? So many things popped out at me. I just sort of thought about because the relationship between black people and police has been so fraught from the beginning of time, that's the thing when you look at civil rights footage, you know, and you see young, vibrant college students protesting or doing sit-ins. And you see the police department sticking dogs on them,

fire hoses, beating them with batons. It sort of is this weird thing that we as citizens are supposed to believe that police are here to protect and serve us. And then over the history, I want to be a Rodney King or whatever it may be, it just sort of doesn't feel that way. It feels like that's not what the police are here for when it comes to us. But even in the film, I'm very nuanced. about the police. I know that all police are not bad and that they're not monsters.

We're all human beings trying to figure it out. And we all have these judgments and these things that we're thinking about each other that may not be based on fact, but more so based on what we've been told or what we've been taught to believe. And so that's really what I wanted to play with. But also I wanted the movie to be a meditation on blackness and all that comes with that because to be black is beautiful, but it also can be traumatizing at times. And I wanted to cover all those things. So, I wanted to cover all those things. So, yeah, I saw it as a beautiful jumping off point because I thought to myself, I said, if there was a story about two black people killing a police officer, some people would think they were heroes, some people would think they were crazy, some people might think they were vigilantes, and I wanted to explore all of those ideas and how that would affect these two normal people who were just living their lives and trying to go along to get along. So one of the great things about all of your work, I think it's fair to say, is that you come from a personal place, right? I mean, all these, you won an Emmy for writing an episode about your own experience.

Right, about coming out. Right, about coming out. An entire series is shy about your life. Right. So what did you bring to this from a personal point of view that you could speak to? So much. I mean, I think it was really, there's a little bit about black community, about family, about religion, about what legacy means to me. And I can be of both minds that on one hand.

And it's about like, because what does it mean to matter? So on one hand, you may think I have to bend the world to really leave something behind. But someone could also argue, why isn't it enough for us just to exist in the world and live a quiet, dignified, happy life? But we've sort of been taught to believe, well, that's not exciting. And I think I wanted to honor lives like that. Where someone gets up and goes to work every day, you know, takes care of their kids, like, you know, is doing all the right things and just trying to just have to just, just have to. pursue life, love, and happiness, you know? And that is everyone's right.

And but for some reason, I think in our society, we started to think that that's not cool. And I think it's extremely cool, just as cool as if somebody would have been the world. I think it's, I think to me, Barack Obama and the guy that, you know, picks up your garbage every week are equally important. And I think that's what I was trying to get at

with this film too. It is incredibly powerful, obviously, from that first scene, which sets off all the action in the film to the very last scene that we were just discussing, which I won't give away in this interview. As you set out to create this story, obviously you're casting it. You want to find the right people to get in it.

But how did you want to tell this story so that it rolled out in such a truly powerful way? I mean, I think a big thing for me was to tell it with complete autonomy. I didn't want notes from white people, no shade to white people. I just felt like from the beginning of time, we've had movies told to us

in your English. And I feel like black people have a language that we speak. We have a broken English too. It's a little bit of Southern, a little bit of city, and a little dash of slavery. Like, we have a broken English. And I wanted our native tongue to be front and center in this movie. And much credit to everyone involved, they agreed when I said, Melina and I want final cut about what goes on the screen.

I want final cut about what goes on the page. And everybody was like, yeah, sure, that makes sense. And what we got was a product that feels different. It feels unique. It doesn't feel like anything else because it isn't touched by the white gays. And I think we have a right to have movies like that. Because Casablanca, Gone with the Wind, you know, All About Eve, Wizard of Oz, all these history of films that have been told from a white perspective that black people

have seen a bunch of times too. You know, we're fluent in that language. We know how cinema has communicated to us about our society, about who we are as a people. And I just thought it was time that I wanted to tell our narrative in a way where people have to show up and learn about our culture and how we walk through the world. And that's not easy, right? You want to challenge some people. Oh, yeah. It's not easy for you, but also for the audience.

You know, somebody who goes in and watches that and go, wow, that first scene, as I said, that sets off the action with the officer. Yeah. You go, wow. Yeah. That's intense. Yeah. So did you want to make people feel a little bit uncomfortable? People like me who sat and watched it?

Yeah. I think everyone's going to feel uncomfortable with that scene when they get pulled over. Because either you've been in that position where you've been behind the wheel or you relate more to the person pulling them over and curious about where they're going or why they're swerving or why they miss the turning signal. And my big thing was to humanize every person in that scene. There are no villains and heroes in this movie. It's not black and white.

There's so many shades of gray that even like for me it was important if people pay attention to that scene is purposely written on the page and it's on screen that you see it. a picture of the police officer's family on a dashboard when he goes to get in the car. You know, and that's my way of reminding people. He has kids at home too. He has a wife waiting for him. You know, these are all people, and we keep bumping up against each other, all to the things that we aren't even a part of. It really is our history coming back and haunting us. We haven't been able to shake the prejudice that our society is still, you know, reeking of. I can hear, it's interesting you say no heroes and no villains. Right. Because I can hear,

some people who might watch that scene in the movie that follows and go, well, they're no heroes. Why are they the heroes of the story? They killed the man at the beginning of the movie. So what would you say to someone who has that feeling after watching the film? Well, it's interesting. I say that we kill a police officer on celluloid. It is a movie. It is fictitious. Black people are killed by police officers in real life, seems like almost every day. And that is not a movie for us. That's real life. We watch these news stories like everybody else. And it is traumatizing because also usually a week or two later, we hear the follow up to the news story, which is always inevitably that the police officer has

been released back on the force, you know, and they're out there in the street again. And so it tells us that our lives don't really carry a lot of value. And it makes it scary to be walking around in the world or, God forbid, be pulled over by police officer because you don't know how that can wind up. And so all we really want to do was flip the narrative. So if anyone is upset that we're, you know, you're seeing violence with a police officer on a movie screen, imagine what it's like to see it happen to you in real life. And nothing happened because of it. I told you a minute ago, off camera, that I interviewed Carrie Washington a couple weeks ago.

And we had the conversation around American Sun of what it's like to be black and pulled over. And I, you know, as a white man, it took me until just a few years ago having four. friends say to me, oh, yeah, we tell our sons and daughters when you get pulled over, there's a routine, here's what you do. For sure. And I didn't know those conversations were happening. Absolutely. Is that a personal experience for you as well that you brought to this film? Well, it's interesting. I haven't had that much of a violent experience with a police officer, but I've been pulled over before. And I'm a person that doesn't drink. I don't even have a speeding ticket. So you would think if I'm getting pulled over, I'm going to be calm. It's not the

case. I am like, yes, sir, no sir. Yes, you can search this because I want to go home. I want to make it home. So therefore, I will absolutely become, you know, obedient and compliant. It'll, I will literally turn into like a slave trying to find their papers when I get pulled over by police officer. But that's not fair. That's not cool. You know, I deserve, I reserve the right to be able to get an attitude or assert my rights or talk back, but we don't have that right, especially if you want to survive it. So what do you want people to feel when they walk out of this film? Is it something different for everybody or what's the statement you want to make?

Yeah, you know, the thing is, I believe Nina Simone says that it is an artist's duty to reflect the times. And that's really what I'm trying to do is I'm being reflective of the society in which we live. And it's not pretty all the time, especially right now. And we can't ignore that. And I think as an artist, I'm trying to show us our reflection, whether we want to look at it or not. And because I think we can be beautiful sometimes as a sister Heidi. We've seen that. We've seen those feel good stories about people helping one another and being a good neighbor

and doing charitable things. But we also could be really ugly. And I don't have to go down that list because it's very long. So we're both. And I want people to take away from it what they bring to it. You know, it's like there's going to be some people that hate it, some people that love it, some people that think it's irresponsible, some people that think it's about time, some people that think it's a classic. You know, I've heard all of it. But to me, that's what good art is. It should be a debate.

It should be subjective. I don't want to have something that everybody across the board feels the same way about. Because that means I didn't do my job. There should be enough nuances in it that people can make an argument and say, well, I think this. Or I think it should have gone that way. Or if they did this, maybe it would end it this way. I'm like, you want those conversations. You want that dialogue.

And you also want people to ask themselves, what would I have done in that scenario? or I'm siding with her. Or why did he, why was he so compliant? Why was she so loud? Like, everybody has a difference of opinion. And I think that's welcomed. I want to ask you about the cast, too. It's an amazing group of actors.

Absolutely. Because it could run the risk of becoming this, like, chase movie thriller kind of thing. And it never does that. Right. I wanted to stay away from that. It wasn't that. I mean, the thrill was there, but it was more subtle.

Yeah. When you put together the cast, what were you looking for? Well, I can't take credit for Daniel. He cast himself. He read a very early draft. We happened to have dinner, you know, one night in LA, and he was like, what are you working on? What's next?

And I said, well, I got this feature about, you know, these two black people that kill a police officer in self-defense. He said, I want to read it. I want to read it. And I was like, okay, I say this early, man. You know, he's like, I don't care, I want to read it. So he did, he read it. And a couple days later, he hit me and said, I am slim.

I have to be slim. And I said, oh, man, okay, that's flattering. Hold on. I say, I want Malina to direct it, and she hasn't read it yet. I said, but I'm going to do another pass. I'm going to get it to her. And if she decides to direct the movie, who Queen and Slim are have to be a conversation between she and I.

So if you're down, just hold a beat. And he said, I'll wait. I'll wait. So he did. He waited a couple months because it took a beat for Melina to get to reading it. And she did. And she said, hey, I want to direct this. I said, great.

Guess what? Daniel Klua wants to be slim. And she was like, I don't see him as slim. I was like, I wouldn't have either. I said, but now after he mentioned it to me, I can't get him out of my mind. interesting. So why didn't you see him as slim? I don't know. I don't think of actors. Funny enough, when I'm writing or even right after, I like for casting to surprise me. So I'm just, that's just how I am.

And so, but for whatever reason, if I was thinking of actors, I don't know if he would have popped up for me for whatever reason. So I think it was the same thing with Malina. She was like, he's the guy from get out, no, I don't see it. So I was like, just go sit down with him. You know, and she's like, out of respect for you, I'll give him five minutes. Like, fine, fine. So she goes to sit with him and I'm waiting for my, because I'm like, what is this about to be? Five hours later, she calls me. And it's like, I hope you still like him because I offered him the roll at the table. And I was like, great, yes. And so then it was three the hard way. I accidentally packaged my movie. And so now you got Molina over here, Daniel Kalalia over here, and you got me in this script.

And the town was like, what do we have to do to get it? Because I think there's this weird narrative that, oh, it must have been difficult to get this movie made. How did you get it on the screen? How did you get through the system? The system came after us. They saw the potential and what this movie could be. And that's when I think Malina and I really sort of opened our eyes and said, wait a minute, we got the leverage here.

They want us. So let's ask for whatever we want. And we asked for final cut because we wanted to have complete autonomy. I wanted everything on that screen, every word, every look, every glance, to be intentional and to be purposeful. And it is. So when people see Queen of Slim, you get Lena and Molina all day. And I wanted to shoot it and release it in the same year because I knew how urgent this movie was.

I didn't want to do test screenings. Donna Langley was like, you might want to do at least one just in case there's something you're missing. I said, fair enough, but they had to be all black. She was like, okay. And I said whatever they say in that screening, I don't have to be forced to do it. Because sometimes we don't even know as an audience what we need. You know, sometimes I want to push us a little bit further than we may be ready for. Right.

So she was like, okay, fair enough. And we also wanted a lot of control of the marketing. That's why I think the billboards look a certain way, the trailer feels a certain way, because we didn't want to just make the movie. We wanted to be in control of how we rolled it out. How unusual is that in Hollywood? For people watching this, don't realize. That doesn't happen.

It never happens. And then a big thing was we wanted to break a new actress. Since we had Daniel Kalulia, who was very recognizable, we wanted to bring in a new face, and we wanted her to be brown-skinned. And nobody blinked an eye. They were like, fair, fair, fair, you got it. And we were like, awesome. We'll sign on a dotted line.

And we really, that was the thing. We knew our power. We knew our worth. And we demanded what we deserved. Doesn't that speak to the position you've put yourself in Hollywood now, though, with the success of the shy, which got its third season? Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much. And you're winning an Emmy and everything else.

You've sort of put yourself in that place, right? Yeah, yeah. When you can even venture to suggest any of that to a movie studio, let alone have them say yes to it. Yeah. I mean, I think it was a combination of the fact that I had kind of, you know, had a feather or two in my hat. and they were, you kind of can't deny, you were like, okay, I know what you're doing a little bit. But also, I think it was the power of the script. I think people really could look at that script and understand that I was doing something a little different

and something that really kind of hadn't been done before. But also, too, I think it was the power of the fact that Molina had been building her resume and people were very excited about her first feature. Daniel obviously didn't hurt because of the heat that he had. And so it was, it just really, we are a product of Black Unity. when people come together and we're stronger together than we are alone. And I think it was the combination of all those things. And also, too, really grateful to make ready Pam Abdi and Brad Weston,

who really fought hard to get in there with us and have become such great collaborators who had a deal with Universal. And we loved how Universal released Get Out, how they released Shreda Compton, which were very, like, specific niche black movies that they made feel like tempo. So I was really impressed with how they were releasing content. with black people at the center of it and not treating them like small, independent movies, but rather really big event films,

which is how they really rolled out Queen and Slim, which has been so exciting. I think a big reason why a broad audience is excited about the film and not just a certain pocket of people. And all those movies did well, too. It became huge hits and won awards and everything else. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I never like to ask somebody of this, but I'm going to ask anyway. The awards chatter that's out there, I know it's early, and you don't want to jinx it and all the rest of it. But do you hear that? Is that exciting? Does it matter to you? I do hear it. I think to me, I really want the culture to appreciate it. That's what we do it for. You know, we want our people to come up to us and say,

thank you. That's, to me, the greatest reward. But I also know what awards mean. I've got one of them, you know, and so I know that it increases the visibility and it also makes it easier to get things done. But also, too, it's a co-sign from your community. because the Television Academy or the Motion Picture Academy, they're made up of a lot of times people who work in the business or do what we do. So for them to say, hey, we think this is good or we think you could be a part of this elite club of films that we want to honor and hold in high regard for a very long time,

I do welcome that because I think that movies like this deserve to be in those conversations because more often than not, it is the white films. It's like, it's mostly predominantly white cast, you know, white director, like, it's almost sort of reserved for films like that. But I think seeing Get Out Win Best Original Screenplay, seeing Moonlight win Best Picture, those moments are really huge for us. We've even just seen Black Panther being nominated in the Best Picture category. Those moments really show us that not only do we deserve a seat at the table, but we deserve to sit at the head of it and to have our own table and to build our own table. You know, it's not just about asking for permission. but we deserve to be in those conversations like everybody else.

I feel like you're going to be at some of those tables coming up. I think so. Let's see. Let's see. Let's see. Let's see what happens. Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sitdown podcast. Stick around to hear more from Lena Waith right after the break.

Welcome back to the Sunday Sitdown podcast. Now more of my conversation with Lena Waith. The shy, I want to ask you about that as well. Just because to me, again, you've so been able to do things that come from you. which is unusual, just the way you were able to sort of control this film, is to be able to produce things that are meaningful to you. Where did the shy come from in terms of your background, and what did you want to say about the city and the culture?

Well, I'm from Chicago, and very proudly, but I would see so many news stories about Chicago, about the violence, about the issues the city was having. And look, because I'm from there, I think I look at it from a different lens, And I know the people there. I know how special it is. I know there's a culture there. There's a community there that often gets lost in some of the news stories.

So what I really wanted to do was to humanize the people of Chicago as best I could. And I think a lot of times particularly black young men in Chicago are categorized as thugs or gangsters or heartless people. And I'm just like, no, I grew up with those cats. Like they're, I think of, you know, them like my brothers. And even though they may not be perfect, they're not monster. And I thought that to me, that's how they were being portrayed in the news. And I didn't appreciate that. And that was the big reason why I sat down and started writing, Emmett, Brandon, Kevin, Ronnie.

You know, Ronnie, it was the name of my uncle who has since passed away. I grew up with a kid named Kugi. Literally, that was his nickname. Ethel is my mother's first name. You know, all these things. Like, I literally pulled from my family, our community, our lives to sort of really show people what Chicago feels like and what it looks like. And it looks like human beings trying to figure out this thing called life.

And I'm so grateful that people really tune in and appreciate these characters. And obviously, this new season, we're going through some changes, for sure. But I feel like it's the most grounded and most human season of the show we've ever had because it really, I had to go through adversity with the show. We lost a cast member, two cast members, actually. And it was a scenario on which I had to really dig deep. And remember that the shy is bigger. than one person, literally and figuratively.

Chicago was made up of so many people, and we got to really give some of these other characters and some new characters a little more real estate to come in to tell a new story about this city that I know and love. Is that a big responsibility to be the one who's going to tell the story of the city you love? Oh, my God.

Okay, this is what the world is going to see about Chicago. I better get this right. Do you feel that? It's tough. You can't please everyone. Of course. You can't. So I don't even try.

You know, for me, it's more about how honest can I make this for me? You know, and again, there can never be just one show about Chicago because Chicago is so vast and there's so many different kinds of people that live in that city. You could tell 18 shows about Chicago and they never could even touch each other. Because there's also so many little pockets and so many little neighborhoods in Chicago as well that most people aren't even aware of. So we're just sort of talking about certain pockets on the south side and then we also venture to the west side every now and then, but there's no way.

to cover that whole city in just one series. We're trying to talk about individuals in the city and how that city has affected them and how that city can hold on to you and never let you go or how that city can feed you, how sometimes it can make you frustrated, how you can fall in love in that city, you can get a job, lose a job in that city.

It's really more about telling the human story rather than just trying to make everyone that lives in that city feel like, oh yeah, that's my life. Chicago because everybody has a very different version of the city and so that's what we try to remember is like hey this is our version of Chicago and what makes your perspective so interesting we were talking about this before we started is that you have this sort of different views of the city starting on the south side and then going to Evanston yep and how that sort of informed

you culturally and allowed you to tell some of the stories you've told absolutely yeah what was it about that sort of mixed from the south side and Evanston that made your point of view so interesting. Well, a big thing for me was when I was on the south side of Chicago, I only really encountered black people. That was my experience, you know, up until I was 12 years old and I loved it. You know, it was amazing. It was great.

I was like, oh, this is such a wonderful utopia. Then I moved to a suburb. Wasn't too bad. Evanston is pretty diverse. It's not Skokie. But it, no shade to Skokie, yeah. But Evanston has a little bit more diversity. But still, it was very much a culture shock for me.

I wasn't used to that. I was in a school that didn't feel like the school I was in the South Side, which we tried to tackle on the season of the shy about what that's like. When you go from this school to a more private school and how that affects how you walk through the hallway a little bit. And so it definitely expanded my perspective because I talked to folks that I ordinarily probably wouldn't talk to and I befriended people that ordinarily wouldn't befriend.

And I think it made it so I'm a better artist because of that today. are really having that exposure to a different neighborhood. And then also, too, when I went to Columbia College in Chicago, which is downtown, and the loop, and sort of being there and meeting people at Columbia was also a unique perspective. I think for me it was really about meeting different people and hearing different perspectives. It just sort of expands my mind in terms of how I want to tell stories and how I want to write characters up until this day. I was reading some stories about you and that you would, growing up, you love TV.

You're watching shows like different world, We show all the ones we watched. Yeah. But you dreamed about writing those shows. Oh, yeah. The rest, I was trying to be Theo or whoever the star of the show was. Right, right, right. Your young mind, you were going to write those shows,

which is an interesting perspective for a young person to have. How did you get to, I want to create that show? Beyond it, right, although then I wound up being on a show. Yes, that's true. It really came from a teacher, you know, fifth grade, Ms. Tarbonis. She was like, hey, Turner Drew, Academy, Chicago. She was like, I look forward to reading your papers every week because you write the way you speak.

And as a fifth grader, I didn't really understand what that meant, but I knew that it was a compliment. And I knew that she was highlighting something that I did well, which was writing. And I think I just always felt like that was my superpower to write and to tell stories. But I also knew I loved watching television. So I really sort of married those two things and said, how can I tell stories on the television? And, but also I knew how those stories were impacting me. I mean, my production company is Hillman Grapp Productions, which is, you know, taken from the fictitious HBCU that they attend on a different world because that's how significant that show was for me

to see those images. And those are very aspirational images because somebody could argue that that wasn't my reality. Of course, I wasn't in college yet. I wasn't old enough to even be thinking about it. I didn't know what a historically black college was until I watched a different world. But it really showed me that black people could be smart. educated and cool and fashionable and fall in love and learn about Malcolm X and Dr. King and all these things. I mean, that show to me still is lightning in a bottle and, and you kind of can't

recapture it. There's all these people wanting to make a different world again. I'm like, it was a moment in time. But I'm grateful for that moment because if it wasn't for that show, I wouldn't be sitting across from you right now. And by the way, all those things, we had the same impression, young white kids watch that had those same visions. That's the thing. Even though as specific as it was, it was number two in the Nilsson ratings. It was like the Cosby Show in a different world. And you don't get blacker than those shows, even though they were very, they were very easy to watch and very universal. But it was like a different world was literally a show about a historically black college. Like I don't think people understand. And it

was like number two on NBC. Yeah? Like please. Like it was that was nuts. And that's 30 years ago. Come on. And for me to be a kid, like having that, it changed my whole life. So you knew then pretty young what you wanted to do with your life. Yeah, yeah. You graduate college, moved to LA pretty quickly at a young age. What was the plan going out there? What did you want to do with yourself? And what were those early years like for you?

Well, the early years were very broke, didn't have a lot of money, interning a ton, working at odd jobs, all that stuff you do, you pay the dues. But I really want to conquer it. I want to conquer LA. I want to conquer the town. That was the mindset that I walked out there with. And I meant like, and by conquering it, I made it. it, I meant I want to be the master of my craft. I wanted to be a really great writer. I wanted

to be a very hard worker. And that was really my intent. I wanted to be the best. And I'm still working at that. I don't think I've gotten there yet. I still think I have a lot to learn. I still have so much more to do. But I wanted to be a constant student of the craft of writing. Because as the ones I looked at as the greats and all those movies I would watch or TV shows, I would say, man, those people really know what they're doing. People like Norman Lear and, you know, and Debbie Allen and Chandra Rhimes and David E. Kelly and Aaron Sorkin and Matthew Weiner, these are all people that I looked up to and admired in terms of they had a singular voice and a specific vision. And that's why their work really spoke to so many people. And I love that.

I love that how intimate television can be. It's even more intimate now because you can watch it on your laptop, on your phone. And so I just feel very honored to be a part of this. this television landscape, where behind the scenes, obviously sometimes in front of it too. But I think television is such a powerful, powerful medium because we really get to communicate with people in their living room or in their bedroom or in their car or they're waiting in line. It's important that we're talking directly to people and not preaching to people, not giving them a specific message, but starting conversations. And I enjoy doing that.

So what was the moment, Lena, in that trip where you felt like, okay, I'm here now. I've done something people like something people have heard about. I'm starting to make a little noise out here. I think I can survive. The Emmy might have been that moment for me. I was going to say that, but I didn't know if for you there was something before that. I mean, the thing was, that was a moment of I've arrived for sure. That was definitely an arrival moment because there's no turn it back after that.

You know, it was, I almost a little thought my place in history. people stood up and saw me in a real way and I took that to mean, okay, now I'm really going to go for it. Like there's nothing I can't get done because, you know, because I've had this moment and this moment in time, and I'm going to earn this moment that I just had.

But yeah, before that, I just felt like if I could write a good script that I felt good about and people enjoyed, that to me was also a moment of arrival as well. And I felt like the Thanksgiving episode script was good. Before I was nominated for an Emmy, I had to feel like it was good for it. I have to validate me before anyone else can. So that was also a moment, too, for me, to read that script and to watch that cut and go,

yeah, I feel good about that. Great. I had no idea that it would become what it did. But that moment was sort of the industry saying, you did good, kid. You did good. Yeah. And again, coming back to the theme, a personal story. Yeah.

you were able to tell through that script. Was that a difficult thing to do or did that feel good to be able to put that out there? It was the easiest thing I've ever done. Was it? Meena Zee wrote that. Well, I was in London filming Ready Player 1 just because that's how the schedules worked out. We wrote it in three days. Because I only had three days off of the movie.

And he came to, I went to his hotel room and, like, we just sat and passed the laptop back and forth and watched old music videos and, like, watched old music videos and, like, talked about stuff and reminisced on things. And in that hotel room was when we both said we wanted Melina to direct it. We just really kind of came together and worked quickly, which we tend to do. But yeah, and it was such a, it was easy to tell that story because I had lived it and I had survived it. I had survived it. I had lived to tell. I did the thing. I came out, made it to the other side, and I had more perspective when I was sitting down to write it.

Around the time I came out, I didn't have any. I was frustrated. I was confused. I didn't know what the future held. So I was in a very different space. But being in London, I was filming a Steven Spielberg movie, and Aziz flew in to write the script with me. I was like, I was going to tell my story, man.

Like, I'm valid. This is my, who I am, how I present myself. I'm just as valid as everyone else. And I think that was a space I had to be in for me to sit down and tell that story. And then to see people respond to it that way, not only to like watching it, but to hand you a trophy and put you up on a stage for,

it must have been incredibly validating to your experience. Absolutely. And the thing is, that was an industry moment and cool. But every single day, someone comes up to me, gay and straight. That's the thing. Straight people love that episode. But they come up and say, yo, that episode of television, like, it changed my life. Or I watched that with my parent, you know, after I come out and all this kind of stuff.

That's the true reward. That's the gift. Yeah. The real life version of that story coming out more difficult than writing about it. For sure. So what was that experience like for you? Look, coming out is never fun. It's not fun because you kind of have to prepare yourself for the worst.

That's why coming out, I think, is so difficult for people. Because you don't know what the other side is going to be. You may think you do, but you never know. And there are people that are put out of their homes, people that are disowned by their family, you know, people that are ridicule, people throw bibles at them. I mean, it is, I think probably one of the most difficult things a person can really experience as a gay person. because you, or a queer person, because you really have no idea how your family, your friends, or whomever, co-workers, whoever it is you're coming out too, how they're going to respond.

But you have to prepare yourself for anything. And it's a rites of passage. It's a thing that we've all experienced, but it's a thing that we all can survive if we can. But also, too, there's a level of privilege that comes with coming out as well. Because if you don't have the means, if you don't have the funds to live on your own or to not, get, you know, even though yes, it's illegal to get fired, fire someone for their sexual orientation, but who knows? There are people still that can figure out a way to do that. What if you're afraid of losing your job, afraid of getting kicked out of your house? So coming out as a privilege.

I think that's something that we as a society need to understand. That's interesting. I never even thought of it that way. Absolutely. Stick around to hear more from Lena Waith on the Sunday Sit Down podcast, including why she started her production company Hillman Grad and the story behind her low-key wedding to wife Alana Mayo. Welcome back to the Sunday Sit Down podcast, now more of my conversation with Lena Waith. So we were talking about your foundation, your production company. Oh, yeah. Helmand grad. Helmand grad.

Yeah. And the part you're able to play now in the culture and in the business where you can hand down what you know and give opportunity to other people because of the work you've done in the spotlight you now have, you can help put some other people on that spot. spotlight. Yeah. Why is that so important to you? It's important because I want to leave this business in a better shape than I founded in.

And I think the best way to do that is to mentor, is to educate, is to make sure people that are not, that don't have the privilege to be able to leave everything and come to Los Angeles or New York and just to pursue their dream. We want to sort of level off the playing field. We want to find the funds to help people go to writing class, help people get in acting classes, people learn the craft that they so desperately want to be a part of. Because anyone can raise their hand and say, I want to be a writer. But everybody has the fun is to take writing classes, to take time out of their day, to be in writing groups, and all the kind of stuff. It takes a lot

to become a good writer. It takes a lot to become a good actor. It takes a lot to learn in terms of being a producer, a director. And people want to do it. But if you don't have the craft or the skill, you're not going to be able to break in. Or unless you're one of those, like, rare beings that just knows how to direct or knows how to write really well. It's very few of those people. And also, I had to learn the craft. I went to Columbia College and studied writing and producing and television. And that's why when I came out to L.A., I was able to hit the ground running. But most people, you know, sort of realized at 45, you know what, I don't want to do this job. I want to go be a screenwriter. I want to go direct. And that's cool too. You know, I want

those folks to know that like, hey, we're here. We want to help. We want to be supportive. And we want to know what we can do to help someone really pursue their dream and eventually live it. Because I do believe that everyone has a gift. Everyone does. You can, you can either embrace it or you can suppress it. And I think a lot of people choose to suppress it, because they got bills to pay, they got families, take care of, they got responsibilities. But there's a difference in the way someone walks

with the world by someone who just thinks about their dream versus someone who's living it. And you help people do that. I love what you say that people are answering your calls more often now since the Emmy. And you say, hey, while I got you on the phone, look at this writer, look at this actor. Check out this person.

This person's great. There's more where this came from. I do think the industry sort of wants to say, oh great, Donald, Issa, Lena, cool. You know? And I'm just sort of like, nah, it's a whole sea of us. And we all deserve to be here. We all deserve to have opportunities.

And we all deserve to have our stories told. And last, but obviously, most importantly, congratulations on your marriage. Thank you. That's incredible. Thank you so much. So was it as casual as it sounds? I was listening to tell John Legend the story. You're like, yeah, we're driving by.

And we're like, let's pop in there. You know, we actually have a really close friend that lives in San Francisco. My wife loves going. And so, yeah, she just had this idea. She's like, why don't we get married at City Hall there? One, because it's beautiful. And two, because it has so much history with our community. And I was like, oh, yeah, that's a great idea.

And we just, you know, decided to keep it just to us. It was so much easier that way. And it was also a great photographer as well, Andre Wagner, who shot the poster for Queen and Slim. And so he captured us as well, queen and queen. But that was it. And also, too, we're a little lazy. We, like, don't want to plan a thing.

We didn't want to be in those clothes all day. We were just like so we're both Torians, like I'm a Torres. She's a Torres. So we like nice things, but we also like to chill and hang out. And so that's what we got to do. We got to go get married really quickly. We went got something to eat after, hung out at the hotel, and went back to work pretty quickly after. You want to be planning a wedding, picking out napkins on that stuff?

I mean, she could have planned a beautiful wedding. I mean, Lana's good at that stuff. But I just think it would have been too exhausting. And we're very blessed to be very busy right now in the business. So we were like, look, we'll get this done. We'll do it. It's felt like we've been married for this whole time. Now we just have a nice jewelry to go with it.

But, yeah, we wanted to kind of get it done quick and easy, no must, no fuss. And I think it was the best decision. That's great. Congratulations. Thank you so much. And I have to ask you, what's next for you? What's on the horizon? You're still young.

You've got a lot of road ahead of you. You've done a lot, but I know you've got big plans. Oh, man. This is the beginning. What are you shooting for? 20s, which is loosely based on my 20s, living in LA, hustling and bustling, being a PA, and being a runner. That'll be on BET in February next year. So very excited about the half-hour single-camera comedy, eight episodes, that really, I think, will get people laughing and inspire folks to follow their dreams.

I'm going to be in Westworld next season, which is exciting, which will be out next year. And then I also producing a TV show that will be on Amazon called Them. them covenant is the first season. It's all about a black family that moves to an all white Compton. Yes, Compton used to be all white in 1953. And the only thing's scarier than the white neighbors that don't want them there is the haunted house that they've just moved into. So it's going to be something special.

I'm in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You are busy. Yeah, a little bit. I know how you found time to get married, but you did. Exactly. We got it in. Thank you.

Big congratulations to Lena on her marriage and my big thanks to her for a great conversation. Her new movie, Queen and Slim is in theaters now. And I'm joined right now on the Sunday. Sit Down Podcast by the producer Maggie Law. Hi, Willie. Good to see. Also making her Sunday Sit Down podcast debut and looking thrilled about the prospect of

Alicia, Hacy, Alicia. Welcome, Alicia. Yeah, thanks for having me. It's good to be here. So Alicia produced the interview with Lena Waith. I confess before we started, before we really dug in, I didn't know a ton about Lena Waith. Of course, I knew who she was through all the shows that she's done, but I didn't know her

whole life story. I didn't know how engaged she's been with her. Hillman grad production network of making sure that young people like she was not so long ago get their chance in Hollywood to come up. Just a super interesting person to sit across from for an hour. Absolutely. And I think for me, I remember her Emmy speech because it was so uplifting. And I think it went a little bit viral with the whole idea that being different is what makes you special and useful in Hollywood. And then, of course, her Metgala, the rainbow robe thing, which was like, The outfit.

The splashiest, most amazing thing that I've ever seen. So that was for me, like, the starting point. And then to find out so much more. Speaking of splashingness, Maggie, I had heard that she was a sneakerhead. Yes. Which I think you. I'm a bit one to say I would call yourself sort of one. But I'm like a lowbrow sneaker head.

The Puma's. Real speakerheads get like the expensive, rare. I just go to Tanger outlet on Long Island. Anything over $299, I am out. Right. But so I was, so I wore a pair of Jordans, good old. Jordan's blue little twist on the original Jordan ones. Like it. She came in and totally won up me, not

with sneakers, but with the most resplendent, extraordinary pair of slippers. She's wearing a suit, like a high fashion two-piece suit. Sure. Great. And then I look down for the sneakers, like, hey, we're going to have a sneaker thing. And she's like, no, I've moved on. Slippers. Slippers. Like slides? They were slides. They were slides, but they were like very fancy leather slides with bunny ears. Oh, so literally looked like slippers.

Yes. No, they were actual like bedtime slippers, but to be worn out in public at noon or whenever we spoke. And she looked fabulous. She looked fantastic.

I'm sure she looked amazing. They did. They had floppy bunny ears on either side. When she walked down the streets of New York, the bunny ears flop. There's a great image.

Someone with a level of self-confidence and self-assuredness that I don't think I have to wear a pair of slippers like that. Won't be catching you in bunny-eared slippers. You, Maggie, are master of nun fans. Yes.

I love Master of None. And that's, she won the Emmy, of course, for writing that amazing episode. Yeah. And I was going to say, I think the Emmy speech is sort of what put her on the map for most people. And that's, I mean, I knew her as somebody on the show. But then to see that speech, you were like, oh, wow, she's going to go places in Hollywood for sure. You heard in the interview that I was born in Evanston, too. I lived there until I was five.

She and I would have gone probably to high school together, although I'm a little older than she is. But we would have gone to the same high school anyway. And I loved what she said about coming from the South Side. then moving out to the suburbs and like getting a new understanding of different cultures that's informed and help her become a better writer and producer and Hollywood force that she's become. Yeah, and it's great. That's the whole point behind the shy, right, is that there's no one Chicago and that every experience that everyone has is just as human, whether you're in Evanston or the South Side. Yeah. And it's nice that she can have all those perspectives.

Well, I hope a bunch of people go see this new movie. You'll see it. You'll be uncomfortable at times. I think it's fair to say. I'd be interested to hear what everybody thinks about it. It definitely test you, but it's a good flick. It's called Queen and Slim, as I mentioned. It's in theaters now.

Alicia, Maggie, thank you both. Thank you. Thank you. And thank all of you as well for tuning in again this week. If you want to hear more of the full-length conversations with my guests every week, be sure to click subscribe so you never miss an episode. And don't forget to tune in to Sunday today on your television set every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist.

We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday, Down Podcast.