Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Machine Gun Kelly

Episode Date: October 10, 2021

Machine Gun Kelly started his music career as a rapper, but it was his latest #1 punk album Tickets to My Downfall that launched the hard-edged musician to superstardom. In this week’s “Sunday Sitdown,” Willie Geist gets together with the artist to talk about that move to punk after four successful hip-hop albums and his discomfort with the spotlight at the top of the music world.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks as always for clicking and listening along. Got something special for you today. My interview with Machine Gun Kelly. He's got the number one platinum selling album, tickets to my downfall. He's in the middle of a sold-out tour across the country. He was a well-known popular hip-hop artist through his first four albums. Grew up in suburban Cleveland, turned into an unlikely hip-hop star.

Got signed by Diddy to Bad Boy Records at the age of 21 and was well known, well received in that world. And then a year ago, he puts out tickets to my downfall, which is a punk album, pop punk. He's tattooed from head to toe. He plays a pink guitar. He sings, very talented musician, but flipped a switch, went from hip-hop to punk, and just his career and life completely exploded from there in ways good and bad. You may know he's dating the actress Megan Fox. They've been very visible and, let's say, romantic on the red carpets at the many events that they've been to.

She actually was in the room for a big part of our interview. I should give you some backstory. So we went to see his show. I took my kids to see Machine Gun Kelly the night before our interview in New York Central Park. It was raining. It was kind of an amazing spectacle. It was a great show. We thought.

We had a great time. He wasn't happy with it. So he showed up the next day. He was kind of upset with how the show went. It was clear to me he didn't really want to be there for the interview. And we kind of went at it for a little bit before we got going in the interview. And I asked him some questions. He was unresponsive.

And I suggested maybe we'd take a break. If he wanted to continue, let's go work out, whatever needs working out and come back. Well, that didn't make him happy. So you'll hear as we start the interview, he kind of refers back to some things about how he was at the beginning of our conversation before we're. we really got rolling. So it'll all make sense. I hope when you hear it, but just know it was a little uncomfortable, a little awkward, a little confrontational before we got started before you were about to hear this. I will say, we are in our family big fans of his music. He's incredibly talented. He's very complicated, as I said, a very interesting dude and got a lot to say. And once we kind

of push through this beginning part, I think you'll really enjoy the conversation, whether you're a big fan of his music or not, just to hear how he's dealing with this new life in the huge spotlight that he has stepped into with the success of tickets to my downfall. So I will leave it there and turn it over to you. Can't wait to hear what you think about my conversation right now on the Sunday Sit Down podcast with Machine Gun Kelly. You said that on stage last night when you were put on that show and giving off all that energy and that vibe to your fans who were giving it right back to you. You said at one point I've got so much going on in my mind right now. What did you mean when you said that? I think I'm just losing my footing on how to be human. I'm so work obsessed and I'm so

busy trying to block out my demons with jobs that I'm getting sick of like wearing a smile because I just don't have anything behind the smile anymore. It's like becoming hollow. Hmm. And it's just like a, it's like a hologram. It's not real. Like the smile is becoming not real anymore. So I'm just trying to figure out how to, like, and I hope you keep this section on here. It's just, it's weird to me that I can't come in and have a morning where I'm overwhelmed with happiness, with sadness and all those things.

And that I can't just come in front of cameras and be human. Because when I just tried to be and I was just kind of like being my actual self and not smiling and giving you the answers you want, I was offered the option to stop and take a break or go for a walk. And it's like, why? Why do I have to be what you want? You don't at all? But that was what was insinuated, right? So I would love for people to see how artists are actually. what the expectations are because like I do always put that smile on it for once I was like you know what

I'm going to like bring how I actually feel not just in music because I've said it in music a million times and people don't seem to ever hear it but it's funny that like when I can wear my actual self on my sleeve that that's not acceptable and we have to take a break until I can muster enough to like fake answer that everyone wants. I'm sorry, Colson, that you misread that. That wasn't my intention at all. I'm incredibly interested in your story. I'm a fan of your music and that's all.

I want to tell that full story and that's what we're going to do. Cool. Well, they put the real stuff in there. You will. You will see it. You will see it. When you say it's putting that smile on and having to go out and do that and how difficult that is, I think some people would see that and go,

man, this guy's on top of the world. He's got a platinum cell. Right. number one album, all these things. And yet, as you say, that's all right there beneath the surface and it's in your music. So what do you say to people who are like, he's killing it right now? He's having his time. He's having his moment.

Where are those demons that you talk about? What do they come from? I think that's kind of between me and my head and I need to work out with myself. But what I do enjoy about this is being able to smile genuinely in those times. we won that VMA. When we go out and we closed the show and we weren't even supposed to close the show and the night just took a whirlwind of its own

and blessed us with that moment. Like, those smiles, those are the real ones. I think when it's for the people, I'm like very authentic in my gratefulness. And when I'm in this room when I'm seeing so many people communicate behind the camera, like, freaking out because I'm not. Like, why does everyone keep moving back there and, like, doing, like, why, why, why am I just not, why is what's happening not okay?

I'm just giving a, I'm just giving a genuine interview, right? So, like, when I see everyone, like, freaking out and being like, what's happening? I'm like, I'm just being human, right? Yeah. To me, it would be a lot cornyer if I came and I was like, Ronald McDonald in here just smiling and dancing around for no reason if that's not. I'm just hyper-focused. I'm not anywhere near done with the goals that I set out to do. I have yet to hear the public media, like the mainstream media, acknowledge my songwriting,

acknowledge the musicianship, acknowledge the catalog like I hear tabloid headlines that are like they fall short and exciting me because I'm like

nothing matters but the music. And that's why I'm here today, to be clear. I want to talk about your music. That's why I was right there on the rail for your show last night because I'm because you are a great musician and you have made this incredible leap from hip-hop to oh my gosh he tries punk and it's the number one album i don't try punk i am punk and i do punk i don't try it so what was that decision like for you colson when you went in january of last year to that record label and said i'm making a punk

album it was already written the resurgence had to happen at some point like music lost the music. There was no more instruments. And music, it became synthesized, it became digital, became electronic. To see a stage with no musical instruments, or even to see award shows have instruments that aren't plugged in. Do y'all know that? Do y'all know that your favorite artists go out there and play to play and it's not live, like their instruments aren't live. Do you know that?

Have the list come out in these award shows of who the actual musicians that play live are. I encourage it needed rawness again. It needed somebody to be like, I'll make a mistake and mess up or not mess up and you can at least just hear my personality and the playing of however I was feeling that night. I'll do that in front of millions of people.

even if like somewhere between whatever year and now that that rawness and authenticity got lost, like I don't have a problem being that though. So it was, I had always given off that energy that I was willing to be the risk taker, that I was willing to, that I always wanted to be responsible for, some wave, something that like people remember I was there when that happened, or I remember when that happened, or I remember what I first heard this or when I first saw this. And in my career, I've been fortunate enough to do that numerous times from the beginning of my career to the, to a couple times in between and to right now.

And to be honest, like right now it feels like to start. But yeah, I mean, I'm kind of here to put a distinct separation between what's polished and what's actual. What's real, what, like, and to bring feel back, everything's so numb because it's so perfect. And when it's perfect, it doesn't make you uncomfortable. And if you aren't uncomfortable, then you can't have a feeling. You just sit and the everything's okay. And when everything's okay, you're bored. Boredom isn't music to me.

Music is excitement. Music is unpredictable. That's the word it came to mind. It's a little bit scary maybe too. Was it nice to prove a bunch of people wrong when you put out tickets to my downfall? And they said, wait a minute, he's a rapper. What's he up to now?

And to put out an album that good that had that much success, continues to have that much success. Did that feel good to be able to say, I took this leap and it worked and to prove some people wrong? Absolutely. I think I know the answer, but was there any hesitation or any fear about going and playing punk? Not one. Not one. It actually strikes me as odd that people even associate that as a transition with me as if I didn't come out with a six-inch Mohawk on my first album, as if I didn't have guitar-based music on all of my albums as if I wasn't on a warp tour for three years

from Ernie Ball Stages playing at 1230 begging for people to stop and watch our show to the next year where we were closing by the end of the tour. And all the bands would come and watch horror show. I'm not new here. Not new to this. True to this. What's interesting is there are so many people in this country and around the world who maybe came to you from tickets to my downfall and don't realize the level of success you had with four previous albums that all were not only charted really well, but were highly regarded in the music world that you did have this entire life before this. Has it been cool for you? to sort of open that door to a new group of fans, younger fans, their parents, you know what I mean?

Like, there's a whole new universe to you now. Yeah, it's really cool. I love, like, seeing all these new hands raise up when I ask, like, how many people is it their first time seeing Machine Gone Kelly Live tonight? And then just see, like, 10,000 hands go up and five, five people. thousand hands already be like, no, I've been here before to see it grow. Like that is so exciting and so anti what we've seen happen in most people's careers, which is like I'll be going on my sixth album was born with horns after tickets, which was my fifth album. And it seems like

it's fresher than ever to people and more of a, you. trending topic than ever when usually this would be when I'm most uninterested in somebody's artistry now because I feel like they've told me everything but I feel like I held back everything I feel like I held back for you ever who I actually was like there was always my I was always bearing it all but I just hadn't removed certain subconscious layers to realize I hadn't even, it's like an iceberg, you know, you just see the tip and then like below the water is miles and miles of that iceberg, but you only are seeing that and I was too. I was only seeing the top of what was coming above the surface. You know, I was

too scared to go underneath and see what was really in there because I had covered it up. Because as a, as a, as a, as a kid, I was scared. So my reaction was to black it out and to build this exterior shield, create a character, and then go from there. So, yeah, I mean, as I, like, I learn more about myself through reaching, like, yeah, yeah, like, I got, yeah. Like, yeah, like, I got, yeah. Well, I mean, it's all in there. You listen to the album. There's love and there's deep pain and there's loss with your father, with lonely. I mean, you definitely swam down and sort of investigated the depths of that iceberg.

No. That actually, Tickets was just me sticking my head in the water. I didn't actually even swim down yet. The swimming down came after that album release. And I, like, had affirmation that, you know, touching on what I saw when I poked my head on water was okay and I was like oh maybe I should swim deeper so I'm born with horns it gets it gets deeper but still keeping the still keeping the melody still keeping the ability to have the six-year-old and the 60-year-old vibe be able to vibe to it yeah and be able to have all the

the angst and the drama and the and the things that a 16 year old would like you know this this this the 16 year old with all the energy in the world to be like I can pick the world up and smash it right now like I have it's it's it's all in there like it's like it feels like I got struck by lightning or something during that tickets album yeah something happened to me I haven't been the same since I've realized something about myself that is actually, it's dangerous. Dangerous, how? To you. To you.

Because I'm not scared anymore. There's nothing holding me back from being my true self. And my true self is it can't be silence, can't be restrained. A force. It's like a hurricane. You can't stop that. It just goes until it feels like stopping. And I don't feel like stopping anytime soon.

So does that mean the new album is going to sound and feel a lot different than tickets? Will you build on tickets? Is it going to a different place entirely? Or for your fans who can't wait to, we've heard paper cuts, of course? It feels more guitar. heavy for sure. Yeah. Lyrically, definitely goes deeper. But I never like to do anything the same. Every album is a juxtaposition of the last album. So I went and studied tickets and I heard the bright sound that I had. And for this album, I just turn the lights off. So it will be different.

Do you have any sense for how soon we might get to hear it? It feels like the tickets to my downfall era deserves this tour, which takes us to the end of the year. But I almost feel like the second you open your eyes in this 2022, that you'll have something to listen to as well. And usually when people say that, they mean like spring. I'm talking about right when you open your eyes in this 2022. A New Year's Day gift. Be another thing to fill your other senses.

Not taste. I was talking about this sense. as born with horns comes with like an awesome tray of food. Now that, that's next level. You can taste the album. That's actually sick. That's so hard. Instead of streaming, everyone just eats the music.

That's tight. That's a new creation I'll work on. That'll be like my 2040 project. If anybody can do it, I think it's you. You'll pull it off. When Wanka was doing it. on the everlasting gobstopper or something. Like, I'll think of some way to as soon as you chew it, you're like,

what? This is going to happen. We're going to watch for this. That'll be cool. Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Machine Gun Kelly right after the break. Welcome back to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Now more of my conversation with Machine Gun Kelly.

You were talking a little bit about your. childhood and I'm curious who you think you are speaking to and singing to you when you write the songs you write. You had a quote I read that really moved me and stayed with me where you said something on the lines of, I'm one of the kids who didn't have signatures in his yearbook. People didn't sign my yearbook. Like, I wasn't cool. I didn't know what to hang on to.

And then here comes music and now I've got something. And I feel like, man, there are so many kids like that who see you and hear you and feel you and they go, yes, he speaks my language. Is that who you're talking to in some ways? That's who I empathize with. That's who I find a commonality with. But I just realized that over time, by only choosing to speak for people who outwardly don't feel cool, I'm also alienating the people that we may think are just so cool, who inside are so insecure, And they're just like, dude, I just wanted to, I just wanted to be cool, like, with you. Because you don't know how many people and artists in general that I've written off

or that have written me off in one conversation, usually drunk, were like, oh, man, I just had it all wrong, dude. I'm so sorry. I thought this. No way, because I thought this. And we just judge each other. and it's so whack because it takes away the opportunity to

have great art like I always hated the fact that even dating way back to the prehistoric age when the Beatles and the Rolling Stones were out like I wish that they had did music together you know you wish you wish there wasn't

these third parties in between and making each other stay away. So, I mean, I'm kind of just making music for any... I'm just making music. I'm just making music. I'm like, I don't want to put a label on for who because you would...

I'm constantly surprised at who comes up to me and it's like, dude. Like this weekend, you know, just being like paper cuts, I love that song. Or like looking to the side stage and being like, oh my God, look at a little nods going off over there to this, to this song. Yeah. And he was.

Yeah. So those, those preconceived notions of, well, I'm making this song for, but at being parallel with this opinion of me also being like, I make music for, or excuse me, I just said the button, me at the same time going, you know, I don't like elitism or I don't like to be, you know, for like, you know, pop punk gatekeepers to be like, well, this is acceptable. Like these bands are cool. These bands are not, there's sellouts. It's just like it's all so against each other.

Like they all don't make any sense. Like the only thing that makes sense is to just make music and people that, you can't tell people that they can't like it because they are. not what I think are the people that should like it, right? You know what I mean? Like at the show last night, there's world champion tennis players and skateboarders and like Olympic skateboarders. There's kids who probably go to private school.

There's kids who probably took a train. There's kids who took a train from middle of nowhere, New Jersey. There's kids from the Bronx. There's kids from Brooklyn. There's like, it's just a melting pot of people who come together. for music, like the religion of music. So I don't feel like it's cool of me to say who I'm making music for, because I don't know. I'm just making music.

It's on the sound waves to resonate with whoever's frequency is operating on that level of what I'm making. And what you've proven is it doesn't have to fit into a genre box. You can do a... No, that narrative got to stop. Like, people have to stop with this weird genre. divide. It's like it we look at all these other aspects in life

religion, color, science, all these things. It's just like, dude, just let things be what they are naturally. There is, there shouldn't be division between anything. There should just be individuality. Like that it should be like self-division with choices that you make. That should be the only thing that you latch on to, not like, a grand opinion tyrannized by one person who's also just a person

telling you like, this is how you should feel. We should all just like, like, everyone just wants to love, right, or be loved. And sometimes music can, might be the only thing you can feel that way about. You know, this, if you're, if you're me growing up, that was what I, that was the voice I listened to. It was just what my body felt when I heard certain music. Have you ever cried to a song? Oh, yeah. Okay, then that is...

Oh. Then you know that that's pure. There is no, like, no one could tell you cry when you hear this song. That was just something that it did naturally. So it's weird that now it's like... I think people are just bored. God, how bored do you have to be to be like... Like, man, you should only do this music.

Right. You can only do this music. What you can do is shut the fuck up. What I can do is whatever I want because I have that power. I think this answer has been 30 minutes. No, it's great. No, but you're right because the fans anymore, and you correct me if I'm wrong, aren't listening to a gatekeeper.

they're not reading a review on a website oh yes, maybe they're right, I shouldn't like this song that Machine Gun Kelly has out. They hear your music, they like it, they relate to it, it moves them in some way, and that's it, right? They're not looking at genre boxes and deciding whether or not they're okay to listen to the music. They shouldn't, but there are still those who like take the time to do the genre boxes and do the

headlines and do the reviews. Instead of coming from a place of like, what do you feel, though, I was even reading one this morning that I was just like, I was just uninspired by the, I was reading it and I was like, this is why rock journalism, music journalism. It's like, it's such a broken record of anyone who's not of the same age or in the same generation as you, you'll call legends or icons or whatever. And then anyone who is right here with you, you have to like speak down. on or you have to like say oh well it's not what this what you don't know what that was because when I'm looking at these magazine articles uh in in the 70s or 80s reviewing albums that now we classify as the greatest albums of all time they were giving them like two stars yeah and being like

these guys suck this dude's a poser this this this these people can't I don't like the way they sound da da da da and then because those are people that are of the same age, same insecurities, don't like that this person is doing this, they don't have horse blaners on, so they're only looking at those people's lives, not appreciating their own lives and being like, you know what? I actually had a great night of music listening, you know what I mean? Unless someone blatantly comes out of nowhere and is like, I hate you all, this concert sucks, I'm not playing the concert. That's something that you can be like, yeah, you're kind of not cool. But like,

It's so weird that you have to die or be of a different age bracket to have people really not be scared to tell you their true opinions. How many people in 2001 were like, I don't listen to Green Day or Blink what a two do? That's mainstream pop-pun. And then you play the songs. They know every word. You liars. It's like the most, it's the weird guilty pleasure of being like, I can't say that I'm into this, but like, I'm into this, but like, I'm not saying it, though. And then 20 years later, everyone, those same people come out and are like, dude, they're the goats, man.

Like, this is my favorite stuff. Like, I'm just a fan of not having to get gray hair on my head before people start to be like. And I'm not talking about, I'm not talking about the people. because the people spoke already. The people let it be known. That's why my guitar was even allowed on stage of the VMAs. Right? Because the people were like, you know what we want.

And if we don't get that, we're making an issue out of it. So like, this needs to happen. And it's undeniable. A category that's been out of the picture for 20 years since the Nirvana, I sense the green. They had to put that on. It wasn't even on air last year, the one I won. That's the alternative. Yeah. It was, that, that was one of the biggest clips of the night, and it wasn't even on air. But that clip of that win and like the, the, the, how odd it was that that is, you had, that, that, that got moved and put on air after 21 years, I guess.

Yeah. Because of the people. But what I'm actually. asking is the media to finally have courage and like have courage to say what it actually is. Like the resurgence happened because of an unexpected and unpredictable, a bold reason. And a big part of that reason is because of this person in an orange peach. whatever suit right now. And it's okay to admit that. It's all right.

I'm going to die one day. And it's okay to like say congratulations while I'm still here. And it's okay to not think of me as this like overconfident, intimidating presence that way that I constantly hear people judge me as because people think, like, I have it so together that they don't need to help me through my issues or that they don't need to be there for me because they're like, oh, you got it.

Look how he, like carries himself. Insecurity runs through my bones like blood. Inconfidence runs through the backstage before and after show constantly. I constantly critique myself. It's not a day I don't wake up and miss the mirror every time because I don't want to look at what's going on. I'm not talking about physically. I'm talking about in every day.

aspect, you know what I mean? My gut is constantly filled with anxiety. My chest can't breathe. My therapist says I have an issue with breathing. I can't stop fidgeting. I fidget all the time. Like, there isn't one bit of this that I just like breeze through. And I'm just like, I've never, ever once been asked, am I good? People just assume am I good. People ask me if my, if my friends are good. And they miss the messenger to go ask. And I'll be like, okay. Are you all good, bud? Yeah, he's all good. I'm not, but I'll just go talk to myself or go write it more on music,

and you'll just miss it more and more again. I took a song out of the set list for this tour. It's my first, like, sold-out tour. First time going in front of crowds where the whole towns are, like, shut down because of the concert going on, right? Like we tried to postmate food. The postmate row back. It's a two-hour delivery time.

The spot was 15 minutes away. Wow. It was like the highways are clogged up because of a Machine Gun Kelly concert. And I waited for that for a really long time. Planned out this whole set. And I got on stage and the last song of the set was also the last song of my album. And I performed it one night.

Felt really uncomfortable doing the song. Because it was essentially something that I wrote as like a goodbye to my daughter at a time when I felt on a night in particular at a, at a spot that I frequented where I felt like my heart palpitating. I felt like I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I felt like I was overdosing. I felt like I was kind of like checking out. My body was shutting down. And I was writing a note. Like, I have to send this.

Like, if this is it, like, this has to be the last thing now. Like, she has to know this, right? And later in the studio, we ended up turning it into a song. And I had just sent it to. to her without any plans of it ever coming out, right? And then I was encouraged to put it out. I put it out. But performing it, I pulled it out of the set.

Like the second night in the middle of the song, I just stopped. And I was like, this will be the last time you hear this song in concert. I just want to respect the energy of this song and what it was intended for and not, like, turn it into a show. Because it came from a real place and it is in a show. So. Does that happen to you often when you've written a song in a moment, maybe reacting to something that's happening in that moment?

And then your life is so different by the time you get out of the stage that it feels, like you say, it just doesn't feel right to be singing it because it belonged to that moment and doesn't belong on that stage? No, because most of the time, my whole career, I have no problem putting on that smile that we talked about. Yeah. Like, I've been frustrated for years about starting stuff where I've been like, don't you hear me crying out in this song right here?

Don't you hear that like everything's not all right? Don't you hear it's like, don't you hear that you miss it every time when it comes to how I'm portrayed in the mainstream media? Like they don't want me to be an underdog. They don't want me to re-rooted for. They don't want me to be coveted or beloved. Like I want me to be hated and villainized and scrutinized and ostracized so badly. and I don't understand it because I'm a kid who came from nothing out of the middle of a town

that wasn't known for anything other than sports and steel and crime. And I came in with no guidance, no real sense, and I'm just like, I'm just trying. Every day I wake up, I just try. I never once have like came out. I'm like, I know what I'm doing. and if I have, then that was a lie. It was just me having to, like, have my own back because it felt like only my fans

were that guidance or were the people that have my back. But fans don't write the narrative until recently when the fans began taking control of the Internet. That was, like, the Wild Wild West. That's where we were allowed to be cowboys and take our guns out and be like, nah. Like, you aren't the sheriff anymore. This is our town.

The outlaws like run it now. That's why tickets to my downfall. Achieve, would it achieve? That's why even the week of, I remember we were going up against a group that had like a Marvel collab come out. Marvel is like the biggest universe of fans you can get. And everyone was like, oh my God,

now we're not going to get the number one. They got this Marvel collab. And I'm like, just watch, dude, like heart and like word of mouth. Like the people are going to take this. Like no one can beat when something real comes along. Like the machine can't win up against the people. And that number one was so much more than a spot on a billboard. It was like a statement.

It's every machine. Right? a statement to every artist, too, who might be out there, like, wanting to give up if their first album didn't hit, or their second album didn't hit, or their third album, they aren't getting a Grammy nomination, or their fourth album, they aren't getting a VMA nomination, or their fifth album, if they make it there, if they have the courage to stick it out for this marathon, you know, like, that is a statement of hope. That's a statement of build it, and they will, come because like the people showed up and they need to know that they're responsible for something like really saving my life because I can I can close my eyes whenever it's time to close them for good and be like I felt like I finally like meant something you know like I finally like did something I gave people eras and moments and I think now I just want to I want the art to proceed the celebrity, right?

Like I just want the art to be in front of the face. Which is hard, right? Super hard, dude. Super hard. It's like why I understand Kaya and putting that mask on, because then all you can do is hear the music. Because my friend who is now a friend, but I remember he was just telling me me, yeah, man, I never really listened to your music.

I just, I always just hated your face. And then he listened to my, but, but he, he, that comment followed, who is this? And I was like, oh, this is my new, this is my new song. He was like, whoa, dude, this is really good. It was a song called 53666. It was like, this is you. I was like, yeah, he's like, that's crazy. I never listened to music.

I just never really liked you. I never really liked looking at you. But in a blind test of your music, he's like, yeah, I like that guy. How about that? Yeah. But that's the dilemma, right? The bigger you get, the more popular your music is, the more people want to chase you around and take your picture and know about your personal life and talk about

Megan and everything else. So how do you begin to manage that? I would want to talk about Megan, too. So I don't blame anybody for that. It's hard not to, right? That's not something I'll ever fault someone for. When you're writing tickets to my downfall, the irony, and you've spoken about this, is you're writing about your downfall, and yet on the back end of it, it becomes this incredible rocket chip for you. And you fall in love while you're writing the album.

You lose your dad near the end of the process. Do you see that irony of, okay, I'm writing about the end here, and I actually know this is sort of a rebirth. or a new beginning, as it turned out to be? Or does it even feel that way? Does it feel that right? Like a rebirth? Yeah. Absolutely, it feels like a rebirth.

Yeah. That's why I came out of the grave on the VMAs. I wasn't dying. I was reborn. That's why the saint was behind me. It is a rebirth. Do I feel the irony of the title change? Of the title being taken to my downfall?

Absolutely. I knew it. when I was, I knew it when I was sitting at a table with two other people, high out of my mind. And the statement, I'm selling tickets to my downfall and everyone's buying was spoken. And I was like, that's it. That's it. Like, I'd never attached myself to something more in my life, you know, and I just, I'm a bet it all on the table guy. So that was what it was.

I knew how people could take that and make the biggest story of me failing if I did so. And I also knew the reward of if they turned that card over and we're playing blackjack and I get 21, what those winnings would look like. So if you want to, if you want an actual smile, I will smile right now because the winnings of that risk were very good. Yeah, I think you hit blackjack. Yeah. Winner, winter, chicken dinner.

Stick around for more of my conversation with Machine Gun Kelly, including how his upbringing shaped his music. That's after a quick break. Welcome back now, more of my conversation with Machine Gun Kelly. I'm interested in you. You were talking about your childhood, your influences. Because you're talking about kids looking at you and connecting with you, you know,

with your father. You didn't have a lot of guidance at home, as you just said. So who were those people on the radio? Who were those people on TV? What pulled you up and said, try music. Maybe music is the way. My house was very, I lived my aunt. I lived in her basement.

It was very quiet. And when it wasn't quiet, I didn't like what I was hearing. It was very, like, scary to a kid. I actually just saw child videos of me for the first time, like videos of me as a three-year-old for the first time. And I couldn't believe that the innocence of that kid turned into this guy. But I just put on headphones and what I was listening to and what I was seeing on TV became the new voices that I was okay hearing. But I mean, I've never really said this, but it should be said.

Like the people who I'm still with now and all those people in the streets who, you know, dude, gang members, like people who would be labeled by this midtown Manhattan society as people that I shouldn't, or that wouldn't be protective of something so good. I saw the opposite. I watched them see something in me and protect it. and help me, you know, be a ladder for me to get to this level. And I just think we miss a lot of the beauty in this country of what is actually going on when humans, like, have a connection to something, right? Like, I think we just, we label everything really wrong.

because I actually think the people that I was supposed to look up to didn't do the right job and actually put me down and suppressed my dreams and all the people that you're not supposed to be around were the ones that really lifted me up and like filled my heart with love and and and gave me a protection that a family couldn't. And so that I owe them, like whenever they see me, they always say, don't stop, don't let nobody get in the way of this. Like, they would have given up and have given up their own lives just to see me attain something that we all thought was impossible.

but we knew that this was a vessel that could actually work like we all saw it early on. So it was actually very unconventional how and who my upbringing was kind of formed and created. Because those guys could have written you off. Like who's this kid who wants to be a rapper, right? For sure. But they opened their arms to you. For sure. For sure.

So and the streets, education. educated me a lot, a lot. It gave me the real education that I needed. And it showed me how to be a man. It showed me how to feed my daughter when I had no means of doing so. Show me how to believe in myself. And it protected me along the way because it was a lot of wars to get here. It was a lot of fights to get here, physically and mentally. There was a lot that the cameras will never pick up on. People talk about different turning points in your career. They might say meeting Travis backstage, way back in Cincinnati, I think it was.

Cleveland, but hilarious. Yeah, Cleveland. That was wild to think about. They talk about when Diddy saw you, signed you to Bad Boy. Talk about when you won amateur night at the Apollo. did any of those nights stick out to you as okay this is someone telling me I can be who I think I can be I can actually do this or maybe all of them sure all of them played a big part subconsciously I still think it took a lot longer until I felt okay with myself right like but that Apollo night like getting that first check from music even if it was $45 which it was that was my first rap check it was like and

being the first right the first rapper to do it like that was that was um felt like the like they gave me a key or something and I all I had to do was just find the right door that it fit in but before I was kind of just I didn't have any tools I didn't know what doors I just I was just kind of like I want to get in and then that first check kind of gave me that key and then

it also helped me because it was like I never cast that check I always just saved it and then I don't think I've cast a check since because I never once like have looked or cared about money until I realized that

old team members stole all of it and I realized better start looking at it. I probably should have looked at it. But, you know, it's always been about, like, the art to me and the music and the memories and the experiences because that is more liquid than cash is to me. That's more like I can think back really quick and have a memory and feel warm. Cash is just like, I don't feel anything.

You know what I mean? it doesn't do anything. It's a nice little knot, though. That's... So as you say, you've been like portrayed as hard-living guy, punk. Do you feel yourself growing, changing as you head into this new album?

Just personally, I mean. I mean, you've said the music is going to have a different feel. Do you feel yourself? I don't know if growing up is the right term, but just changing and evolving? I don't ever want to grow up. You don't seem... Growing up to me, seem like...

I feel like grown up is an alias for no energy. It means that you're like a stale loaf of bread. You know what I mean? Like, you're... You're smiley, you're vibrant. You know, like, that's... if I become a stale of a bread, you can just take me off the shelf. So growing up does not interest me.

Maturing and becoming a better me is absolutely first on my agenda because that ends up coming out on my fans and my relationship and my daughter and my friendship. And I always want that to be exceeding what it was the day. before the day before that like I always want people to feel the love grow off of me constantly I just want to be comfortable taking layers off that I keep putting in front of myself it's like when I walked in at the beginning of this interview and I was like I don't want to be here because I feel lost today it's okay to be lost

yeah because there's some days I wake up and I know exactly where I am but I can't hide it anymore because then I I I I watched myself where I can go and watch interviews. And I'm like, who is that? Where are you? Like, I am you and I don't know you. What planet are you on, dude? Like, what dimension me is this?

I don't understand this. How hard do you have to, like, act like you're not here? Because I know you and I don't know you. Because he had the mask on, the guy you were looking at. I mean, he had an iron man suit on. He did, it was a mask, a suit, shield, a sward, a centaur, a centaur, I don't know. I mean, there was like eight million things where I'm just like, where are you, dude. Come out.

Yeah. God. Damn. Well, I want to say that I'm grateful, first of all, that you're telling me this, that you came and sat and did lose the mask and we could have a conversation. And obviously at the beginning of our interview, I meant absolutely no disrespect. I wanted to give you time if you needed that, and I misread your cadence and your vibe. But I am honestly so grateful that you would sit on a day when you feel lost, as you said, and would just open it up to me. So thank you for that.

No, I mean, I want to thank you for not being a person to shun me for having a human moment. Yeah. And I, like, obviously was blessed by you coming to the show and you having such positive things to say when you came in and knowing that your 12-year-old and 14-year-old was at the show and we're at the show and got to see me do what I love to do even if it was lightning. sound difficulties people not showing all the things the fact that they didn't care about any of that at all amazing but

yeah I think I think you're just the first one to interact with me since I've made that decision decision I think you're the first one that I've interacted with since I've decided to make that decision consciously to just be how I am.

There's nothing more I hate than looking at something I've done and I'm like, everything was wrong that day. And I lied to everybody and to myself by even showing up there or acting like I was not worried about what was going on internally. You don't have to keep any of this. Obviously, this is just me talking to it. Yeah, no. I'm grateful because it's not easy to sit down and strip it all the way and just be real.

So thank you for that. Thank you. I mean, also, I guess a really important part to me is to make sure that the people who see me that have known me know how appreciative and gracious I am. So I hope that there are parties in this interview that are light. And it's just not a bunch of... Yeah. So, I mean, if you feel like you got that, then obviously I'm willing to... It's the full picture, man.

Call it... It's who you are. But if you want to keep going, if you feel like... You know, I definitely want people to see me beaming in a moment like this, right? Because it is something I look back at hindsight and be like, what a time. I guess I always just have those fears of those times being in the past or something, you know. Yeah. That's what drives me to be like, I can't soak in the moment.

I have to just keep creating more. But it must feel pretty damn good to stand on the stage with rain coming down. Hold your pink microphone out that way. I have an entire crowd sing every word of a song you sat in a room and wrote by yourself. Yeah, I'll rock with that. That's cool. Definitely. That's like, I could cry thinking about that, man.

I was like a decade in, two years ago, three years ago, four years ago, not being sure if I was doing the right, you know, doing the right things. If I was, I didn't know where it was leading to. and for it to culminate in these moments of sold out shows and crowds singing everywhere. Dude, the fact that we have a 32 song set list, people sing all 32 sides. They are. I saw it last night. I felt it last night because I had friends come to the show, and I was like, damn, I know my friends are thinking.

It was like that part of the show when I dropped, I think, I'm okay right after another song that was like everyone had just sang. And I was positive that everyone was like, all right, well, he gassed out all the hits. So there's like not, I don't know where it could go from here. And then all of a sudden, watch me. Take a good thing to mess it all up in one night. And the whole crowd just erupts and starts singing every word. And they were like, another one.

And then like, that's over. And then, you know, they're like, okay, all right. Well, that's got to be the last, like, sing-along one. And then like, you know, a Bloody Valentine or like, just, dude, it was, it is a trip. Because I loved going to concerts. And when you watch an act that you kind of are like, you're, you're super familiar with. But like when they're playing, they're playing songs. And you're just like, dude, I forgot how many of these songs I know.

Yeah. How did you make so many songs that I know? you know like that's that's been the dream dude because you understand when i started touring they knew half a song it was like they knew like one song right i like or there was a whole tour where i just had to pitch you had to pitch like the song right like when wild boy first came out i had to just pitch how wild i was i would stop the show and i wouldn't perform i would i would take my pants off and just be in boxers and I wouldn't perform until someone else threw their pants on stage and I would put their pants on and do the song. Because it was like it took

that much to sell the song at that point. It was just that like new and that much to prove that and wanting to be that memorable where you're like, no, no, no, we're not just going to do some songs and like give you the option to forget me. You're going to remember how crazy this night was. And then after I got tired of being crazy on stage, I wanted to be prolific on stage. And after that, I wanted to be musical on stage. And then to be able to just stand there and not have to like cut myself open with a broken bottle and have all these other factors come before the music.

And for me to just be able to stand there and be like, and this next song is called and it plays and everyone sings it, that was like, that was always the dream. So I'm living the dream right now. And then how about the ultimate rock star moment at the end when they turn off the electricity on you? And you didn't even need sound for them to sing the song. You sang it to them and they came back. I mean, come on.

Yeah, that was great, man. The lightning couldn't stop the show. Well, it did stop the show, but it didn't make us go home. Not really. Yeah. Not really. That's cool. Well, I know you got a show to get to tonight.

I'm so grateful for the time today. Thanks a lot. Congratulations. You touched a lot of people. People you probably don't even know you touched. And your music means a lot. So many. Thank you so much.

Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot. My thanks again to Colson for that conversation and for opening up to me on all that that that's going on in his life right now. Things didn't start out great between us, but I can report to you. We hugged it out at the end. It's all good. He's an incredibly, incredibly talented guy.

And you can listen to his latest. album, tickets to my downfall, wherever you get your music. And my thanks, as always to all of you for listening. If you want to hear more of my conversations every week, be sure to click subscribe so you never miss an episode. And don't forget to tune in to Sunday today every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sitdown podcast.