Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Mark Hamill on the legacy of "Luke Skywalker" and his new movie "The Life of Chuck"

Episode Date: June 15, 2025

Mark Hamill talks to Willie Geist about that "Star Wars" role that’s shaped his life for nearly 50 years and his gripping new film, from the mind of Stephen King. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks, as always, for clicking and listening along. Man, do I have a treat for you today? My conversation with Luke Skywalker himself, Mark Hamill, there is absolutely no need for an introduction of Mark Hamill. You have known him for almost 50 years now, believe it or not. Yeah, the first Star Wars movie came out in 1977. Great conversation with Mark about the process leading up to that.

He was an unknown. actor at that time, walked into an audition, got called back for another audition. Harrison Ford was in there as Han Solo, and he didn't know what to make of it. He only had a few pages of the script. He said he couldn't tell if it was like a parody of space movies or what are we going for here. And he said, even while they were making it with all these strange droids making jokes and these fantastical characters, maybe it was just going to be kind of a cult classic, like the Rocky Horror Picture Show or something. Meanwhile, while it goes on to become the biggest movie franchise ever created by man. So we talk about what it was like to be Luke Skywalker in those moments for those first three movies

and really for the next 50 years what it's like to always be Luke Skywalker. And kind of pushing that away at first after the Star Wars movies before fully embracing it, especially in one moment backstage at one of his Broadway shows with Kerry Fisher, who said, dude, just embrace it. You're Luke Skywalker. Princess Leia. Great story for a man who's full of great stories and now is starring in a new movie called The Life of Chuck, based on a novella, a short story really, from Stephen King. Now I say Stephen King, you think it's going to be horror or some kind of a psychological thriller. It's not.

It's a really beautiful and uplifting story. It's told in three acts. It works backwards about a man named Chuck who is dying when we first meet him and it works backward to go to his childhood in his childhood in that last part of the story, which is actually the first part of of his life, Mark Hamill is Chuck's grandfather. So it's really a beautiful role. He talks about being pulled back onto the screen. He's been very happy as a voice actor and doing all the things he does, but he was very,

he read this script and thought, yeah, this is a reason to come back and be on screen. So I'll step aside. You don't need to hear any more from me about Star Wars. You know it, you love it. Sit back, relax, enjoy a conversation right now with Mark Hamill on the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Mark, it's great to see you.

Thanks for doing this. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I was just saying I just finished this morning, The Life of Chuck, which is such a beautiful movie. And as you were saying, kind of an indescribable movie. Yes. And it's one that comes from Stephen King and Mike Flanagan, well known for his horror film, psychological thrillers,

however you want to categorize them. And that's why this movie takes you in such a beautiful way by surprise. As a viewer. And you were saying, even as someone who was reading a script and thinking about this movie, you were hit by that as well. Absolutely. And I told the producers,

how am I supposed to promote something? I mean, how do you describe the indescribable? I mean, nominally, it's following the story of this man named Chuck from like the kindergarten Chuck and junior high school Chuck and high school Chuck is Jacob Trembly and eventually Tom Hiddleston. But I feel like this movie is, the right movie at the right time.

Because we're so divided. There's so much division and uncertainty. And this is so life-affirming. You know, it's sort of, I love the fact that the audience discovers it without being hit over the head with obvious messages. it's truly unique. And Stephen told Mike Flanagan, this isn't filmable. And they'd had a prior relationship because he had done Dr. Sleep

and several other Stephen King project. So he said, well, just trust me. I'll send you the screenplay and we'll see what you think. And Stephen loved it. He's tweeted about it. He called it excellent in, my opinion, and excellent was in italics. So that's high praise indeed. But, uh, and as you say,

it tells the story backwards, act three, act two, and act one. And I play Chuck's grandfather, and I'm only in act one. And it was just idyllic. I mean, I, all I had to do was love my wife, and I love me as Sarah, and love my grandson. The littlest one is Cody Flanagan, who is irrepressible. At that age, I would be on a movie set, you know, wide-eyed. He walked on like he owned the joint. You know, I mean, his scene is cut short, but when he's playing with the train, he's ad-libbing all aboard, get your luggage on, he had no lines. But he's improvising like crazy. There was one moment, I just, I think, tickled me so much. He was playing with the train, And Mike comes in between takes deals.

Now remember, when the train goes around the third time, no more smiling. And he listened, and Mike went back to the camera, and I saw Cody doing this. I said, Cody, what are you doing? I'm practicing not smiling. He wasn't trying to be funny, but oh, so adorable at that age. And Benjamin Pageax, this kid who's not a kid anymore. I guess he was 12 when he did the movie. He's 14 now.

but I was just bowled over. I knew he had been on Broadway in the Hugh Jackman version of the music man. But I'm telling you, he sings, he dances. One time I came on set, he was knitting. Who knits at that age? But he's, I'm telling you, you're really going to see a lot from him

because he's just so talented. He can do comedy, he can do drama. This is his first movie. Wow. And he is such a, touching performance and so real. And I loved, I mean, I can relate to this. You know, when he's at school taking his, you know, the after-school dance classes, he's dancing with a girl that's got to be a foot tall as he is. I can relate to that. But, and it's just filled with so many

wonderful actors. I mean, I would give anything to have worked with Tom or Chouette Loutifor, Carl Lumbly. well, I did work with them in House of Usher, but I'm saying I'm so isolated. Karen Gillen, Matthew Lillard, it just goes on, Michael Trucco. So I had to tell them, you know. I mean, I would one day love to work with you, but it's an honor just working near you.

Sharing a bill with them. You're on the same poster at least. Yeah, at least. I was trying to, as you say, it's kind of indescribable, think through why it moved me so much watching. I think part of it is the unexpected, that it's not what you think when you see Stephen King's name. But also it just makes you stop and think about your own life and your own legacy and what's actually important to you and how long do we get to be here and making the most out of all of it.

So at its core, what would you say this movie is about? Well, it's one of those things where it's life affirming and, and, hopelessly optimistic without, like I say, hitting you over the head with messages. It's what you take from it. And that's what was a revelation to me. When I first saw at the Toronto Film Festival, they were with us from the get-go. And seeing it cold, I mean, there was no publicity sheets worth of synopsis or anything. and I would urge people, if you can see it cold, don't read reviews and don't Google it, for God's sakes, because when you come upon it fresh, you're open to it in a way that allows you to glean what you want from it.

it talks about how little moments that seem trivial at the time really are life-changing in many ways. And like I say, it's just so optimistic in its viewpoint. And I think we need that in this country. There's so much division and anger and uncertainty. This is almost therapeutic. And it plays a little bit of a trick on you. you because, for example, when you see Tom Hiddleston dancing spontaneously with the girl who's busking on the drums, you say, oh, that's an interesting, beautiful moment. I don't quite get why it's so meaningful to him. And then as you work through the movie, which actually is working backwards, it reveals itself, oh, that's, that was about something else. That was about something else.

Yeah. And I love the way it just, that sequence just grows organically. Because here he is an accountant, this boring accountant with an attache case. And it just developed spontaneously, and the crowds rather around. I think it's a really original approach to a dance sequence. And dance plays a big part of it when you think of it. Not only him dancing with his grandmother,

but then joining the after-school activity where Samantha Sloyin is his teacher. And I slipped in and walked in and watched that scene. I didn't want to draw attention or anything. So once they were ready to roll the third AD, say, go in now. So I stepped just inside. I had a lot of time off, by the way.

You know, I'm only in Act 1 at the end of the movie. But it's remarkable. You know, Mike Flanagan, when he cast me in the fall of the house of Usher, I was playing this soulless, sociopathic, evil lawyer. Now, in voiceover, that'd be routine, because you can play anything in voiceover. They cast with their ears, not their eyes. So as long as you're sound right for the character.

So I was spoiled, really, because I had an enormous range of characters I could play. But this was the first part that I thought, ordinarily I'd only get that part in animation. but he cast me on camera, and I'm so grateful to him. He really changed my attitude towards the business. I was getting sort of cynical, I thought, well, I'll continue to do voiceover, but I've kind of had it with on camera, you know, I mean, unless I'm offered really challenging roles,

and that wasn't really happening, which is fine. I mean, it's a natural arc of any actor's career, but it puts the fire back in my belly. I thought, wow, if he can see me doing that, he really thought outside the box for that. But occasionally that happens. I mean, I remember I'm a big fan of what we do in the shadows. My agent said, oh, they want you to do what we do in the shadows. I'm thinking, I'll be playing the high school principal. I'll be playing the disgruntled next door neighbor or a meter reader.

They sent the script, Mark Hamill, roll, Jim the vampire. Boom. And that to me, it just sort of encapsulated their humor. Not Vlad, the vampire, Jim. It's so mundane. And it was just a joy to work with Matt Berry and all of those actors are so great. It seems like watching you as Alby, you were able to call on years of almost theater training with some of the monologues that you had. As you talk about the richness of this character and why he wanted to do it, was a lot of.

Is that part of the appeal that this was a guy who you really could sink your teeth into? Yes, because I started reading and I thought, well, he drinks a little too much. That's a character trait. But he's basically a really dull accountant until his grandson says math is boring. Well, this hits him where he lives. And the way he rhapsodizes about math, it told me who he was. and it's, you know, it's so unique to his character that an accountant would talk about it as it being inspirational. It can make you popular.

You can, really? And he talks about when you look at the night sky, you're seeing the greatest equation ever. I mean, he's inspired. And it just tickled me because I thought, oh, that's who he is. but I just had it, and working with me as Sarah, she's just such a nice, sweet lady. And, you know, as actors, you don't have them any time. You know, you have to sell the fact that you've been together for 50 years on day one.

And we just fell into it. And I thought, oh, in my make-believe world, I could just live here because I have the grandchildren, I have the wife, and I have a simple life, and I'm an accountant. And a nice Victorian house. Exactly. Was Toronto, Mark, the first time you realized you guys were on to something special because it got such a reception at that film festival a few months back.

It won the audience award, the People's Choice Award. Was that the first time you went, oh, this is resonating? Yes. Well, I thought we had something special, but there's no guarantee that the audience is going to respond accordingly. And when the film started, I mean, they were just with us from the get-go. They laughed in the right places. There was applause for that dance sequence. And at the end of the picture, the lights came up and there were people with tears in their eyes.

It did win the People's Choice Award. And we weren't in competition. So that was unexpected. But I thought, boy, if we have word of mouth from audiences like this, we're in great shape. it's like I say it's layered and deep and I love the fact that it just plays out it's not like they're hitting you over the head with morals or you should think this it leaves it to the audience so people can enjoy it on on a level that's personal to them there's so much in there that we won't give away but the reveal about what's going on in that cupola or the turret up

there well that's where a little so well there there's a moment where that's a little little Stephen Kingy. Exactly. Exactly. Or the apocalyptic aspects. But like I say, I don't think, I know Stephen is much more versatile than people give him credit for. He did do Green Mile, the body, which became a stand by me, the Shawshank Redemption. So he's not exclusive. I think he's most well known for Pet Cemetery and the Shining and Carrie and all that. So he sort of gets typed, but he's wonderfully versatile. And he's so aware, they sat me next to him at the Toronto Film Festival. And outside, I'm being an actor and see, how do you do?

Inside, I'm like, oh, it's Stephen and Keith. But when I went to sit down, he went, the major, which is the character I'm playing in the long walk. I have another movie coming out based on a lot. based on a more traditional Stephen King novel. I mean, the premise alone is so ghastly, I thought, I don't know if I could even... It really is.

Be in it? I don't know if I'm going to be able to see this thing. And you're the villain. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And really, I'm telling you, the story, the heart and soul of that movie are those young guys, those, the walkers, the 20-something actors. And I'd never seen, I don't think I'd seen any of them before. And I'm telling you, Willie,

there's every one, this is the next generation of people to watch out for. Because to a person, not just the lead guys, but the supporting, people that have one or two lines, even the background artists

who have no lines are perfectly cast. And now I had read it, but in the storyline, I'm not with the guys a lot. I show up occasionally. So the real revelation to me was seeing what they go through. It's remarkable.

We did that in Winnipeg. Back with Stephen King. You're going to be Stephen King's guy now. You're not careful. But the thing was when I sat down, he went to the major. I thought, how does he even know? They said, oh, no, after some early unpleasant experiences, if he gives you the rights, he has director approval.

script approval, actor approval. Wow. And he's really into it. Some authors, I'm sure, would just take the check and say, well, do what you want. No, he's all over it. And that just surprised me. And, of course, I wanted to ask him a bunch of questions, but I thought, no, this isn't the time. And to my delight, I just got a book called Stephen King on writing.

Oh, I can't recommend it highly enough because it's, like being in his room, being able to ask him all these questions. Where do you get your ideas? And did you mean this by that? He talks about the process. He talks about how he gets ideas, how one idea that is in one novel is reinforced in another novel, because he's notorious for taking like a character from one property and having him show up somewhere else. Right. Right. But I'm trying to read it slow because it's so revealing. And it's like I say, after sitting next to him, I said, one day we're going to have dinner together. I'm hoping.

And I'm going to ask them all these questions I want to ask them. And this book does it for me. Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Mark Hamill right after the break. Welcome back now more of my conversation with Mark Hamill. I was watching these young actors in the film, Life of Chuck, and thinking about your life and your growth and the way you came up and who you became. Right.

And thinking about you in this sort of itinerant childhood that you had, I think you went to nine schools and 12 years or whatever the number was. Your dad in the Navy, military brat, all those things. Graduated from Yokohama High School. Yokohama High School. Yeah. How do you find in that life, in that family, which doesn't seem to me, then you correct me if I'm wrong, like theatrical or artistic?

Not at all. Where does that performance come from inside you, that love of being a ventriloquist performer and all the things you like to do? Well, what you do is you read the script and you say, what is required of my character to make this script work the best it can work? and, you know, so I had a good feeling for that, you know, and I was naturally, you say, well, but I want to work with Karen Gillen and I want to work with Tom and all that. But it was satisfying knowing that if we did our job, if we set up young Chuck's life

the way it should be, then that when they get to the next Chuck, Jacob Trembly, is the high school, Chuck, you know, all's well. And then on to Tom Hiddleston. So I love on big ensemble cast where the weight is not all on your shoulders. And, you know, again, I can't, I'm so grateful that Mike Flanagan came into my life because, you know, I sort of put. reached the point where I said, well, I'll still do voiceover, but I don't have the drive or the fire in my belly that I did 20 years ago

where I said, oh, get me out on this and that. I thought, you know, this is probably a time where I should spend more time in the backyard with the dogs confiscating neighborhood kids, frisbee's, when they come over the fence. Get off my lawn guys? Yes, exactly. But he gave me a motivation that I thought, was long gone. Because like I say, the sociopathic, dead-eyed evil lawyer I was playing,

that would have been routine in voiceover. They don't care what you look like. They cast with their ears, not their eyes. So the range of characters that you would never get on camera is enormous in voiceover. But this was the first time someone cast me in something that would be routine in voiceover, but on camera. Because, you know, I can't thank him enough. And again, then he comes back with Life of Chuck, which is so different from Fall of the House of Usher. He's a wonderful person and not just a good director,

but a wonderful writer. And such a kind man. I mean, when you're on set, he never raises his voice, he never curses, he never yells. You just feel like family. It's a safe place to be. And I've worked with some really volatile directors, where, you know, they're throwing things. But not this, man.

I think he's just comfortable in his own skin. And the product is great. The movie is incredible. When you talk about that fire in your belly, can you remember where that started for you as a kid, as I mentioned, in your childhood? Where did you find that love of performance? Do you remember? Well, two things stick out.

I mean, the Walt Disney show, which was on every Sunday, their various names. Disneyland, Walt Disney presents. Walt Disney's wonderful world of color when they signed with RCA when they were moving color TVs. Of course, I saw it in black and white. My father said,

color TV, it's a fad. I remember he said, do you want to watch a color TV where the sky is yellow and the grass is blue? Yes! Absolutely! I remember sneaking around the neighborhood

jumping fences into the backyards of people who I knew had. ad color TVs and watching through the windows as, you know, Jeopardy. I think some of the game shows were in color very early. But that aside, Walt Disney showed how movies were made. He'd do like the making of Pollyanna or making of Darbyo going little people. You know, I'm 5, 6, 7, and this is the first time I'm seeing the camera crew

and the construction workers, the grips, the warden, the warden. all of it. And I was so wanting to be in a world. I'll tell you one pivotal movie I saw King Kong, the black and white King Kong on television when I was probably in early grade school. And it wrecked me. It was tragic. I cried my eyes out. They killed Kong. You know, it wasn't his fault. He didn't want to leave the island. And it was on a million-dollar movie. So it was on Monday through Friday, and I watched the very next night thinking maybe somehow he could escape the island. I had no idea that it was fixed. And again, I wrecked me. And my mom was going, why do you keep doing this to yourself? Just don't watch it. Wednesday, I had all my friends

in the neighborhood over. I watched it every day because I didn't know how they made dinosaurs come to life. And at that age, I was obsessed with dinosaurs. And you couldn't go and Google it like now. I went to library when we were supposed to do a report on whatever and looked up micro-fiche of New York Times reviews of King Kong and took notes. Okay, visual effects, Willis O'Brien, model maker, Marcel Delgado. And because I thought, I, somebody goes to work and makes dinosaurs come to life. I want that job. So, and I thought my mom said, look, the odds of you being able to be successful show, but it's my dad too. He said, no, you should either join the Navy or be like your older brother, go to medical school, because my older brother is Dr. Hamill, the success of the family

because, you know, medicine beats the arts. But I said, you know, I mean, I didn't know whether I wanted to be an actor or what, but I wanted to be in the business of make-believe, the escapism business. and I thought, I'm not a bad cook. I could always cater a movie because my mom taught me how to cook. I wanted a chemistry set to tell you the truth. My father said, you're going to be making stink bombs, right? I said, no, I just want to play with fire.

My mom said, you want to learn chemistry? Come in the kitchen because, you know, she was the old school where she had to have that dinner on the table. And, you know, I learned how to, instead of having somebody set down a plate of lasagna or a plate of fried chicken, and, oh, you soak the chicken overnight in buttermilk. Oh, okay. And you put the spices in the buttermilk and you roll it in the flour, all of that stuff.

And it was fun for me. And it turned out well because I married an only child who does not know how to cook. I was very jealous of her. She told me that she was allowed to drink Pepsi and eat Pop-Tarts for breakfast, which would have been so foreboding. I'm looking at her over your shoulder, right, this very nice. minutes. There she is. So I'm still jealous of the lax rules in her household. But it turned out well because I enjoy cooking and I did learn a lot. And then you had the audacious idea that you could

go to L.A. and be a part of this thing that was so exciting. Was that a hard decision for you? What did your family say about that? You're nuts. And it was right at a time that if you didn't get into college, you'd be drafted in the Vietnam War. So lucky for me, because we had no money, I'm a resident of California, so I was able to go to Los Angeles City College, which in those days, $8 in a pen and you're in. And that saved my life, because, I mean, you had to take eight and a half units. If you dropped, they, you know, you could, the consequences were so high, either college or the jungles of Vietnam. So I would. was well motivated. But I just can't believe my luck. For instance, when I graduated from Japan,

I wanted to go to New York. I said, I'll be a cab driver or waiter and auditioned for plays and so forth. But my brother was getting married. He wanted me the best man. And one of his best friends was Michael Franks, a composer, singer who had written an original show that he wanted to go to Broadway, didn't make it. But what I'm saying is, I got a job at Will Wright's ice cream store. I got an apartment, $55 a month, but did this play. And since it was set in Los Angeles, a couple of the actors in the show had parents that were connected to show business.

Lori Bogus's father, Gil Bogus, managed or worked with Neil Diamond. So he saw the show several times. and after one of the shows, he said, you seem like you're really committed to this. Are you? I said, absolutely. That's all I want to do. He said, well, I have a couple of people

that you should probably meet and maybe I can help you get an agent. So I went in. I had a dramatic scene prepared, a comedy scene prepared, and I eventually got an agent. I mean, this is, when I look back, I thought the odds of this happening

are astronomical. So I had to stay in school. but they were sending me out on jobs after school. I got a part on the first thing I did was the Bill Cosby show, and then I did a show with Andy Griffith. The thing was I went to, normally I said, I can't do this, so I have to stay in school. This one part came up and they said, you've got to do this.

So I went to the head of the department, Jerry Blunt, and I looked at it as an acting exercise. I base my lie on true facts. My mom's very sick. She's got diabetes, true. And she's going to be going into the hospital. She needs me to look after my younger brother and sisters. And they gave me special compensation to miss five days,

to which I went to the valley and shot this TV show. And I was terrified that I would be discovered. I was doing the Partridge Fair. and I would get up at dark with a sign and a flashlight saying Columbia Ranch. So I had no car. I mean, I think about it. It's crazy. I would never let my kids hitchhike.

But anyway, I would hitchhike to, and sometimes you get there like an hour and a half early. You don't want to get there late at all. But one day after shooting, I usually walk a mile away from the studio before I started putting my thumb out. And a car pulls over, I look down, it's David Cassidy. He goes, come on. What are you doing here? Because I had just done a scene with him and lying on the spot, I said, oh, my car broke down. So there was no car.

He says, well, get in. And he drove me from the valley over Highland. And he got to sunset. He goes, which way are you going, east or west? And I said, I'm going east. He goes, I'm going west. He pulls over and lets me out. I told that story to show.

John, years later, he goes, that's David. Because, I mean, it was only two or three miles. Right, he could have. Yeah, but anyway. Well, you have to see, and then the general hospital, you get an arc on that, the Partridge family. Like, you're working pretty steadily. Yeah. And then this audition comes up for a movie you never could have imagined what it was going to become.

But Star Wars, how did you hear about it? Robert England, who played Freddie Kruger, said, have you been out on Star Wars? He was out for Hans Solo. He said, I think there's a younger character. in it. And so I called my agent. She's been annoyed over the years because in his book, he said, if it weren't for me, Mark would have never been cast. She already had the audition set up, see, for next week. And so I went in and it was just, it was Brian De Palma and George. Brian was looking at people for Carrie, also a Stephen King project, and George was

looking at people for Star Wars. So they're like actors that were 16 to 40. you know, for both Luke and Han. But we didn't, they didn't talk about the movie. They just said, well, tell us a little bit about yourself, which is hard because if you have some indication of what the character's supposed to be like, you can affect those attributes. So I just told them, just like I'm telling you, well, I went to high school in Japan and blah, blah, blah, you know, five minutes.

Thank you very much. And I left. About a month later, they said you're going to be testing for the part on video. and it was Harrison playing on solo and me playing Luke. Still no script. We got like eight pages, and I'm thinking,

is this like a parody? I mean, who talks like this? And I asked Harrison, he was in American graffiti. You know, George. Is this sort of sending up? He said, hey, good, let's just get it done, right? So he would, no help whatsoever.

I went to George, asked him the same question, And he kind of froze and said, let's just do it and we'll talk about it later. Translated means let's just do it and we'll never, ever talk about it later. He doesn't like hearing about backstory or motivation. He's a real film director. He comes alive in the editing room. And, you know, there are actors, directors, and George is not one of them.

But I thought, well, you know what? Probably the only smart choice I made was, I'm not going to take it upon myself to be. arch and ironic and send it up. I'll just be as sincere as possible. And my agent said, how did it go? I said, I have no clue. A lot of times you say, oh, well, they laughed at the lines and plotted at the end. Here, no clue. They said, thank you. And I left. About a month later, they said, you got it. We're sending you the script. And, Willie, I'll tell you, I'll never forget, reading that script for the first time,

after only reading eight pages, I was just blown away. And I thought, well, wait a second, Harrison's the leading man. In the screen test, I appeared as though I were the annoying sidekick because he was cool as could be and cynical and a womanized, all these things. And I was like, you know, overenthusiastic and all that nonsense. So I thought the title page said, The Adventures of Luke Star Killer has taken from the Journal of the Will's Sagan. number one, the Star Wars. And I thought, well, I guess Harrison is Luke, because I'd forgotten from the screen test, which is weeks and weeks before.

But very early on, I went, oh, my God, it's through the eyes of a teenager. It's almost like a gender switch on Wizard of Oz. Dorothy's in a drab place and wants to go wherever the excitement is, and that happens to Luke. And I'm thinking, this really isn't science fiction. There's a princess, there's a pirate, there's a wizard, there's a tin man, you know, there's a wookie and all that. I said it's much more a fairy tale than it is science fiction. And it was funny. I mean, the robots arguing over whose fault it is.

I mean, and I realize I'm the straight man. I'm setting them up for the laugh to R2. that friend of yours, no, to three be you know, that droid of yours is going to get me into a lot of some, oh, he excels at that, sir. So, I mean, they got the laughs. But it just tickled me. And one thing that impressed me was how effortlessly feminist it was. Princess Leia is completely uncowed by, I mean, she's sticking her nose in his face and, you know, giving them great sass. And when we try and rescue her, we're horrible at it. She takes over her own rest.

You call this arrest you. Give me that gun. She makes Han and Luke look like such chumps. And she's very effective in, she's no, you know, damsel in distress, that's for sure. And I thought, I love that because, again, it's not pounding you over the head and telling you that she's not a damsel and distress. It's showing you. You know, even without John Williams' music or all those special effects, I just, it was exhilarating.

And I thought, wow, this thing is going to be such a winner. I asked Kerry and Harrison what they thought. And Carrie said, well, maybe there's a chance. And Harrison's, whatever. Stick around for more of my conversation with Mark Hamill right after a quick break. Welcome back now to the rest of my conversation with Mark Hamill. You know, it's funny, I'm struck listening to you over the years talk about what this movie became and saying, you thought the script was great, you believed in it. But you thought maybe it ends up being a cult classic, like Rocky Horror Picture Show or one of those.

So how do you begin to grapple with what happens after the fact when it comes into theaters and there are lines around the block for weeks and months? The thing is, I watch Saturday Night Live every week since the George Carle in the very first episode. I never saw one ad on SNL. I never saw one ad on TV at all. I think there were newspaper ads. There might have been a billboard. But here's my point. On the day it opened, it was May 25th, 1977,

they were coming to pick me up to dub the 35 millimeter print because they were putting the 70 millimeter prints into only like 16 theaters. My numbers might be a little off. But it didn't go wide. But here's my point. I said to the driver, can we drive by Gromond's Chinese because I hadn't seen it, and that's where it was playing.

They argued so much over the poster, there was no poster. You know, they couldn't figure out how to promote it. One was, you know, very serious, an entertainment, Odyssey, beyond your imagination. The others promoted it more like little rascals in outer space, you know. But they couldn't settle on it. So when they opened, they just had lobby cards, you know, color photographs of scenes from the movie. But here's my point.

When we go by Garland's Sharks, there are lines around the block day one first show. Because my, I mean, my recording session was, I think, 11 or 1. So it was the very first show. I thought, well, this must be the hardcore people. Any genre film that science fiction or fantasy has a certain. following that will turn out right away. The problem is if it's not good, it drops off. But from that day one, it just, you know, I remember thinking the first time I saw an editorial cartoon that had Darth Vader in it, I said, wow, see, that's expanding to the world of politics. And they're

commenting on a politician who is dark and scary. Right. But I, you know, I never really, realized that it would become a full-blown cultural phenomenon. What was it like to be you through that run through those three movies from 77 to 83, which is you come from a family with no connection to show business. You didn't grow up this way. You were a relatively unknown to the public actor before Star Wars. And now you're one of the most famous people on Earth. How did you handle that?

You just try and reassure yourself that nothing's changed. I mean, I haven't changed. around me are going nuts. But, and fortunately, I went into another film about a month into the run, which was shot on various locations. And so you were sort of away from seeing it on a day-to-day basis. But, you know, it was sort of like playing like, I remember when I first saw Hard Day's night, I was like an 11.

And I'm thinking, look at them. girls are chasing them down the street and screaming and adoring them. I said, oh, I want that. Flash forward 30 years. I see it again. It's like a horror movie. They're trapped. They can't go anywhere.

They're in a car and a studio and a car and a hotel room. They have no lives. They can't go anywhere. They can't walk outside without being, you know, set upon. So, you know, your point of view changes over the years. I mean, it's fun. And I love the fans. We have problems because now we're the victims, I would call, of the merchandising world.

There's a lot of money in merchandising. So they're at the airport. You know, you go out. We've been followed in our car where they at red lights rush the cars with lightsavers and all that. And they're not fans. They're dealers. Those things are going to be on eBay. before you get home.

And it's just something, it's really terrible, but it just comes with the territory, I guess. You just have to live with it. And you never know where they're going to show up. I mean, when we landed at the airport,

they were out on the tarmac. I said, how did they even, they get out on the tarmac? How do they know we were on this flight? I don't know. But I will say you, watching you embrace the Luke Skywalker. Sure.

There are people who say, well, that was me then. you have really thrown your arms around. The real fans and the experience. To a certain extent, Carrie came to see me in a play on Broadway, and she comes backstage at the end, she goes, what's with your bio? I said, what's wrong with my bio?

And I listed all my theater credits, every single one of them. And at the end, I said something along the lines of, and he's also known for a series of popular space movies without ever mentioning the actual titles. And she said, get over your... yourself, look, I'm Princess Leia. You're Luke Skywalker. Get used to it. And I went, you know, she was always a little ahead of the curve. You know, she's so smart. And I saw the way she handled it. And I thought, you know what? I should enjoy this. What territory do I occupy

that nobody else does? Enjoy that. I mean, people work all their lives and aren't remembered for anything. I mean, and I'd never expected to be, that's for sure. All I wanted was to be able to continue to work in a job I loved, and this was it. I was thrilled. And you're talking about the Broadway run. You did Elephant Man and Amadeus in these other shows and showing that I'm not just the blockbuster space movie guy. Look at what else I can do. I was thinking about it. I had Daniel Radcliffe on this show a few years back. It's not a dissimilar experience, which is he starts with Harry Potter. Yeah, yeah. And then almost works backwards.

The opposite. Exactly. The way a career would normally work, you and he both have kind of done the inverse. Yeah, I'm sure we'd have a lot to talk about. But, and what was interesting, I went to Broadway to try and be seen in character parts that people wouldn't ordinarily think of me for, and I guess I did seven, eight shows, one off Broadway. But, and all character parts, except for one.

And then when I went back, I auditioned. I said, oh, this animated Batman, I see the people they're putting together. These are smart people that have experienced writing for DC for many years. And Bruce Tim's involved. Paul Dini. I said, this is going to be a cut above. I think they're going to try and make this one of those bridge shows that appeals to younger people, but writes up to them and hopefully draws in college students and young parents

and so for this isn't going to be, you know, the Saturday morning super friends. So I said, I'd love to play a villain that's never been done before, you know, because I was a real fan of the Adam West, Bert Ward version when I was a teenager. And I thought, well, Clayface or Rasha Gould or something like that.

And they said, well, they want to see you for the Joker. And I thought, ugh. I mean, that's dangerous because already there's Caesar Romero and, oh, my God, Jack Nicholson. I ever topped that. It's interesting because the copy I read when I auditioned had only three words. They had a black and a lot drawing of him standing there with that big screen in his finger like that. And the only words at the top of the page were don't think Nicholson.

So, and I wouldn't do that anyway. I mean, I wouldn't want to imitate someone that great. And I had added confidence because it was about a month after all the fans' free. freaked out over Michael Keaton being cast as Batman. Oh, he's Mr. Mom. He can't be Batman. They hadn't seen an inch of film. But the fans are really volatile that way.

And I said, if they think they freaked out over Michael Keaton being Batman, how are they going to feel about Luke Skywalker being the Joker? They'll lynch me. But what I'm saying is it gave me a confidence because I knew I couldn't get it. A lot of times, Willie, when you want to put it. part, a neediness can show through that makes people uncomfortable or throws your timing up. I tell young actors, act like you don't care. Be aloof. The aloof are the better, as they say in sweet charity. And in this case, I thought, well, since I can't get it, I'm going to make them

really sorry they can't hire me. And so I went in there and I just let loose and I didn't care because I knew I couldn't get it. Of course, and I was so cocky, I'm driving away going, top that, find a better joker than that. When the agent said, they want you for the joker, I went, oh, no, I can't do this. I said, I don't even remember what I did. It was a month ago. I mean, they calmed me down when I went in for the first time, And Andrea Romano said, no, we have your audition. Here, listen to the tape.

This is what you did. And again, it really was a seismic change in my career because people were going, that Mark Hamill, Luke? That's the problem. You get associated with one thing, and they think that's all you can do. And it just opened up a world of character parts and voiceover. Things, because, you know, they cast with their ears, not their eyes.

You're able to play so many characters you'd never get if you were on camera. and I loved it. I mean, first of all, the voiceover community welcomes you once they know you're serious and you're on time and you don't have minders and show up late and all that in a limo or whatever. You're just, you know, if you're a working stiff, they love you. And like I say, I never got to do dialects on camera, you know,

but I played, you know, I did Australian, I did Cockney, I did, you know, Standard English, you know, you can do anything you want, as long as you fit what it looks like. So I said, where is this bit all my life? I mean, even more than Broadway, which is really, I mean, you have to want to do Broadway. It's a grind, eight a week. But with voiceover, it's fantastic. I mean, you don't have to memorize your lines, you read them.

You can come in looking like hell because they don't care what you look like. They carry a sound. And I said, I don't care if I'm ever on camera again. It was really, I learned that, that I don't need the recognition or applause. I just like working. And, I mean, I did it from the early 90s. I'm still doing it. But you've had plenty of that.

Star Wars gave you enough of that on camera. And now you're able to flex all these other muscles. So our time is short. I know you've got to run and I appreciate all your time. You've said recently that you're done with Star Wars. Is that safe to say? I don't want to make a big pronouncement like this is my decision. I'm just saying that it really felt like a conclusion.

They, my character was given complete closure. I died. Ironically, by overdosing on the force, I might point out. But, you know, that seemed to be. And once the Skywalker trilogy was over, it was a whole new era for them. George gave them this amazing canvas, the entire galaxy. They can do westerns, mysteries, comedies, you know, whodunits, anything within that realm of the Star Wars. And they're doing so well.

I love Rogue One, Mandalorian, Book of Boba Fett. I just think it's something. I had my time. I'm really appreciative, but I'm really looking. to the future for all these new projects. But I do know when I mention anything about the space movies, it gets extra scrutiny as opposed to me talking about anything else. And I said that.

And then I saw headlines, you know, Mark Hamill and quit Star Wars. Well, let me say, they haven't asked me. It's not like they said, please come back. And Luke died. There's that too. There's what? That your character died as well. Yeah, exactly.

I mean, come on. How much can you do with the forest goes? Mark, it's a joy to talk to you. Thank you so much for the time. And thank you for all the memories and the movies, including your latest, which people are going to absolutely love, Life and Chuck. Thank you so much, William. Thank you, Mark.

Appreciate it. Enjoy it. Thanks. My big thanks again to Mark for a great conversation from a lifelong fan. He has given us so much joy over the years with Star Wars movies and beyond. You can see his new film, The Life of Chuck, in theaters now. And my thanks to all of you for listening again this week, If you want to hear more of our conversations with our guests every week,

be sure to click follow so you never miss an episode. And don't forget to tune in to Sunday today every weekend on NBC to see these interviews in color with your own two eyes. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit Down podcast.