Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Michelle Williams

Episode Date: April 2, 2023

In this week's Sunday Sitdown, Willie got together with Actress Michelle Williams in Brooklyn. They discuss her latest acclaimed film, the emotional moment when Steven Spielberg saw her playing the role of his own mother in The Fabelmans, and why her experience on Dawson's Creek has guided her career. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks, as always, for clicking and listening along. Got a good one for you this week with five-time Academy Award nominee, Michelle Williams. She's, of course, one of the biggest stars in Hollywood, but more importantly, one of its most respected actors. Her latest Oscar nomination came for her role as Mitzi in the film The Fableman's, which is the semi-autobiographical story of Stephen Spielberg's life. He, of course, directed that film as well, got a ton of Oscar nominations, and she was nominated for best actress. Her latest project, her next project, I should say, is called Showing Up, Independent Movie with a friend of hers, the director, Kelly Reichard.

She's worked with her four times now. Wendy and Lucy from 2008 was their first movie together. You might have seen that. Michelle Williams says, this is kind of where she feels most at home, back doing these small independent movies. she has branched out and done huge iconic films like Brokeback Mountain. She kind of is capable of doing it all, and it was fun to sit down with her and catch her on the other side of this busy award season. All that stuff's behind her. She's back home in New York.

We got together in Brooklyn, where she lives with her husband. Tommy Kale, who, by the way, director of Hamilton, in the Heights, just a total Broadway superstar. They have two young children, and she has a daughter with. with the late Heath Ledger. So it was just great to sit down and talk with her. She doesn't do a whole lot of this. It was fun to be able to spend some time with her and have a great conversation right in her neighborhood. So sit back now, relax, and enjoy Michelle Williams on the Sunday Sit Down podcast.

Thanks for doing this, Michelle. Yeah, thank you for having me. We've already had very important conversation, dialogue about New York City, pet care, all kinds of important topics. We've already bonded, yeah. We can continue on that subject if you'd like. Or we could talk about your movie, which is excellent. Thank you. Called Showing Up.

Thank you. It's your fourth collaboration with Kelly. It is. And it started with Wendy and Lucy, which I think a lot of people remember. What is it about working with Kelly that brings you back time and time again? You know, it's a 15-year working relationship and friendship. And to be able to grow and change with someone. to think that she's still interested in what I can do,

even though she's seen me at my best and my worst, you know, she's seen all my takes. And to feel like there are still things that she wants to investigate with me is just such an incredible honor that she's not tired of me. Because I remain her like most ardent fan. Her movies, she made a film before Wendy and Lucy and called Old Joy.

And when I saw that, I knew I wanted to work with her, and I just thought, well, that's everything that I've ever wanted to do. And if I could just make one movie like that, I would, like, die a happy actress. Wow. And so here we are, like four movies later. But her aesthetic, her sensibility, her way that, you know, the movies are very, very subtle. But there's always like a, there's like a larger theme that she's working on, but she's threading it through in, like, the most invisible way. So I'm always just amazed how she can pull off something that feels both important. and delicate at the same time.

And I love being, I just love populating her vision. Is it true that at this point she calls and says I'm working on something? And you just cut her off and say yes. You just do it really without seeing the script or anything like that. You're just in at this point. Yeah, that's what happened this time. That's amazing. She called and said, you know, I've got something for us.

And we got off the phone. And I said to my husband, well, I got a job. And it sounds like we're going to Portland. And I think it'll be in the spring. And, you know, and then a few days later, the script arrives, but our, you know, it just makes your life feel like long, when you can work with your friends and stay in touch with them artistically and emotionally. It makes your life feel long and supple and I hope that we have like many, many points

of return over the next 15 years. That's a rare relationship though, is it not? I mean, there aren't that many of those in your business, right, where you just say, let's jump together and see what happens? I know, it really is. It really amazes me because truly, like, just to make one of those movies with her was beyond my wildest dreams. And, I mean, this is, like, sort of a morbid thing to say, but I always, I, I, it occurred to me when she offered me this movie. I thought, like, this is going to be, like, the headline of my obituary.

It was, like, a contributor to the Kelly Reichart body of work because she's become acknowledged as, you know, not just an important, American filmmaker but an important international filmmaker. She's really received and lauded. They, you know, they had like a day dedicated to her at the Cannes Film Festival. And we started, you know, the movie that we made together was so, so small. It was a crew of 13 people. There were no departments. There were no trailers. There were no hair and makeup. There was, I, like, wore my own clothes. Like, it was just really homegrown. And so then to see her, you know, celebrated in this way, She's a theater named after her in France. You know, it's incredible.

So for people who don't know her thing, for lack of a better word, what is the Kelly Riker thing that brings you back every time? How do you define her style exactly? You know, I think that there's, I think that there is like a term. I think it's like a neo-realist, I think, is a term that they use about her work. So it feels it's as close to life as you can make. maybe get. You know, there's a kind of, I remember our first day when we worked together. Like I, you know, it's naturalistic to like the furthest possible degree. You know, we did

my first take for her of our first day on our first movie. And I sort of, you know, I looked down and I checked the clock and off in the distance. She's like, cut, cut, cut, well, that's way too much. I was like, I like, I like moved my eyes three times, really. She's like, yeah, you got to. You're really chewing the scene. Yeah, yeah. I was like, oh, interesting. Okay, okay.

So, like, her eyes just very finely tuned to what she wants and what she can accept is the truth. That's sort of what I thought watching showing up. I was like, there's nothing artificial in this performance. For many of the actors, yours, but everyone else as well, I don't feel like I'm being nudged to feel a certain way or pulled in a direction. There's no music really guiding me, right? So it does just feel like you're sort of a fly on the wall. What do you like about Lizzie, this particular character? I know you said yes before he even knew Lizzie.

But once you got to know Lizzie, what did you like about her? You know, I really liked thinking about, so the movie is sort of about what it takes just to be able to sit down at the table and start doing your work. You know, all of the things that happen before we simply sit down and begin. And it's the fights that you have with your friends. It's the errands that you have to run. the things you forgot to do. It's these kind of, you sort of, I thought, you know, are these situations that Lizzie is creating? Or are they things that are happening to her?

And are they actually part of the artistic process? That you have to kind of spin around before you can, like, sit and center and begin to do whatever your practice is, you know, whatever your, whatever art means to you, because it's scary. And so you kind of like make a distance between, you know, yourself and the act. And actually that maybe that's part of the process itself. Like maybe all of that stuff is an artistic process. It's what you have to do before you can start. It's like clearing the decks to focus on the thing you really want to be doing,

which in her case is sculpting and pottery. Is this the kind of movie you like the most to make? I mean, you've done everything. You've done huge budget movies and you've done. art movies and everything else, you just feel very comfortable in this arena with this director. Is that fair to say? Well, it feels, it feels like very true to my heart into why I even wanted to act in the first place. I really just wanted to make independent cinema.

I wanted to make a home for myself and a life for myself and my family in independent cinema. That was my, that was like what I had in my eye. you know, that was like my, it was my dream. And so to have branched out and sort of made bigger movies and to be comfortable in that arena also was a really big deal for me and took a lot of sort of work to, like, expand the space that I could allow myself to fill. But these movies feel like where my heart is.

It comes off that way. You can see it. You also, again, act in this film with an animal. I thought you were going to say Jed Hirsch. Well, him too. He's wonderful. He's absolutely wonderful. You've been very critical of the pigeon as a scene partner. I've noticed in some of your interviews, not as easy to work with, perhaps.

They just don't give you. They do not give you what a monkey gives you. I don't want Kelly to know how much I loved working with the monkey because she's never given me a monkey. We've had oxen, we've had horses, we've had dogs, cats. she's never given me a monkey. The monkey is an unbelievable performer. Truly. I said to the monkey trainer

because she learns all these specific skills that are really so disparate and complicated. And I said, has there ever been anything that you haven't been able to teach her? And he said, no, nothing. Like he was talking about his child.

Like, yeah, there's nothing that this monkey can't do. That's a talented monkey. Yeah, it really is. But the pigeon, I felt for you in that scene toward the end, in the gallery, when you're just duck in the pigeon. A little bit more difficult to work with, Furnissau? Yes, more difficult. Well, most of the movie, well, I don't want to give away, you know, what happened to the perimeter.

But, yes, but birds are, I loved working with the, I actually do really enjoy working with animals for whatever it's worth. I really enjoy it because they're always present. They don't know anything other than to be. in the moment. And so you have to, they do require a kind of a different kind of like responsiveness. Yeah, but it's clear you're comfortable. And with Lucy in the first movie, the dog, too, right? That's kind of how it all started. That's how it all began. So are we looking at more movies with Kelly as you, as you move along? Is this something you'd love to just dip into every couple of years

when she calls? That's always, that's up to her since I don't, I don't read or direct them. So I don't, But I think, you know, that would be my great hope is that there's, you know, still something out there for us. Do you like this sort of pattern of changing gears a little bit where you do a movie like the fableman's, a Stephen Spielberg film, and then to come back to something that feels a little bit more to your roots or your original feeling about film? Is this a nice sort of peek in valley? Yeah, I really do. I like being able. I like being adaptable. And I like to be able to fit myself into these different universes because it's really,

film is such a director's medium. And they ask and need different things from you. And so to be able to kind of shape shift and inhabit different worlds feels really fulfilling to me. Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Michelle Williams right after the break. Welcome back now more of my conversation with Michelle Williams. You are coming out sort of the backside of the Fableman's, all the attention at God, and all the award season and the Oscar nomination, everything that came your way and

Stevens way and the film's way. So now with a little bit of distance, not a lot, a couple of weeks, I guess, how do you look back on that experience and that character of Mitzie? Oh, it was so hard to say goodbye to and see something that was really nice about being. being, you know, that the film got these great nominations was that we were brought back together. And so we could see each other again, you know, at these events and like we could be, we could reunite and be the fablements. We loved each other. And I think like the, realizing that the Oscars was our last go-round was really sad to me that we weren't going to be united by this project anymore. It was very poignant to read and to see how strongly Stephen felt for obvious reasons of a story sort of about his family. And that when he saw you first as Mitzi, he just broke down in tears.

Did that feel like a responsibility to Stephen to get that right because you're sort of carrying his family story along? Yeah, for sure. I mean, when I, you know, that first day, when he broke down, my heart went out to him. him and I wanted to offer him comfort. And inside, I'm thinking, oh, thank God. Like, it's working. Like, whatever it is, like, we're starting, we're in a good starting place. Yeah, I mean, that, did you expect it to be so well received?

I mean, if Stevens involved, it's going to be, get attention. But did you feel it in the moment when you were making it that this is something special? Well, it felt special to me. I mean, the moment that I read the script and just saw like this gorgeous, gorgeous story with these, like, big, beautiful scenes and, you know, the, like, the enormity of Stephen's heart and his life experience with these beautiful, like, the collaboration between himself and Tony Kushner on this, on the dialogue, I knew it was really special. It was just, like, the most gorgeous script ever. So I had a sense of what it could be, and then the work begins. And then it's the like, okay, how do I live up to that? My strongest feeling was, all right, this thing, like, this script is so beautiful.

It's flawless. It exists. You just have to jump up and be able to meet it. Like you just have to, like, it's a high bar and you have to hope you can jump, jump up and catch it. Did you feel any relationship to Mitzie as a mother of three of yourself? Like, I hope to be this way for my kids. I sort of watching, I sort of had some of that. Like, am I like that?

I want to be that way. You know, did you feel any of that as a mother? I still think about the spirit of Mitzie as a mother. I still think about, you know, she raised four children and all four of them adore her. And she gave them what children really want, which is attention. and the ability to play, which can be difficult because there are so many other things

that have to get done, that it can be hard to, like, create that much time with your kids to do what they want to do, to see things the way that they see them, to get on their level. And she gave that to them in a way that, you know, you can see them sort of reaping the benefits as adults.

Like she really extended their imagination playground. And so I think about that with these very young kids that I have now. I feel like you've done a good job of that, though, over your career in sort of saying, yes, I'll do that job as long as it's close to home, or yes, I'll do that job as long as I can see my daughter or all of those things. Has that been an important thing for you as you haven't suffered at all in your career, obviously? Has that been important to you to sort of make family first in that way? Yeah, at a certain point I realized, oh, geography is everything. You know, I even, I thought, oh, okay, so when my daughter was younger, I took more sort of on-the-road jobs because she was so little. Right.

And then I think they reach an age when they need to sort of embed themselves with their school and their friends and their activities. So I thought, okay, we're grounded. And we're grounded like an airplane. I don't mean like grounded, like in trouble. And we're going to stay here. And so I started doing theater, which I hadn't really done for a long time and didn't have any training for. But I thought, well, it's an acting job that works in New York. So I'm going to become a stage actress also as a way to stay home.

And, yeah, she's been in the same school for the junior now since first grade. So we've figured out a way to make it work and stay at home. And don't you feel like there's a moment, I feel this way too, where you realize I'm not getting any of these years back and it's going to go really fast and you know that now. So let me just be here. Whatever happens after, I can sort of go and do things, but like there's no getting this time back. No. Stay close to the kids. Yeah.

Right? Yeah. That's sort of homing beacon. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I feel that really strongly. So we're at this point where you get this next film coming out,

and I love the roots of your acting career because it's a long leap from Montana to Hollywood. I'm sure growing up in Montana, Hollywood seemed like it was a different planet. So when did you start dreaming about being an actor? Where did that come from in that childhood of yours? When we lived in Montana, I was, I don't think I even, And I think I probably thought that people lived in the TV set. And so I really didn't have like any concept of that that was a job or like something that people did.

And my life there was very rural and sort of, it was great. Honestly, it was an incredible childhood, those sort of early years. So much freedom, so much connection to nature. I think about that time in my life, even though it was. it was brief, I think about it all the time. I think it sort of really served me well to have that kind of expansiveness, time to daydream, lots of boredom, lots of wide open spaces. I think about it a lot.

And then at a certain point we moved to San Diego, and that's when, you know, San Diego's close to Los Angeles. And there were just other kids that were acting. I don't really know how to describe it. It was just something that I kind of got swept up in without really being super intentional about it. It was just something that other people were doing, and then suddenly I was one of the people that was doing it,

and no real rhyme or reason. Like, no... School plays, anything like that? Yeah, school plays. But nobody in my family had any connections to Los Angeles or the film industry, and all of a sudden I was just like a kid in a carpool that was sort of going up and back and forth for these auditions.

And you did pretty well, You got some parts eventually, not at the beginning. I auditioned for two years in the beginning without ever getting a job. Oh, is that right? And that was auditioning regularly. I mean, I was constantly going up and back for commercial auditions, TV show auditions, but I never got a single one. So I don't really know why they kept taking me there.

And then I got a little commercial job and then another one. some sort of like guest spots, but it wasn't a fast acceleration. With the idea being this could be a career, or this is kind of a fun thing that I'm doing in middle and high school? I was so young that it didn't really register to me that I was going to commit to this for the rest of my life, or that there would be other options, or I just kind of fell into it, really. And it wasn't until later when I started becoming a... fan of film that I became passionate about it. Stick around for more of my conversation with Michelle Williams right after a quick break.

Welcome back now to the rest of my conversation with Michelle Williams. So you crushed it in Baywatch, crushed it on the Lassie movie, the new one, the updated one. Do you think? I've seen the clips. Not the full film, but I've seen the clip. And then Dawson's Creek comes, and you're 16 years old when you get that part, ish? I think so, yeah, I think it was 16.

Something like that. And I love how even recently you've been talking about the foundation that that gave you and the people you worked with in your grams and how you draw a line through everything back to Dawson's Creek. What do you mean when you say that? What was that education you got there? I think it was a few things. I think, you know, it was really a stabilizing force because I was quite, you know,

young, but it taught me how to be responsible. It taught me how to get to work on time. It taught me how to prepare at night for the next day. It taught me sort of like the basics of how to take care of myself in a way that we were in like a very sleepy southern town. And the crew really felt like they looked out for us. They knew how young we were. And they kind of put like bumpers around us, you know, just made sure that we were safe and take it. taking care of and like that I went to the dentist and you know things that I didn't didn't really come naturally to me they would just sort of do you sure that you did you get the oil changed in your car you know things that I just didn't know about

because I was so young yeah so I really appreciate the way that people let us kind of had a childhood honestly yeah and what did your family think about that when you were because you were out there for six years something like that on and six and a half years. They must have been thrilled that you landed apart and that you were sort of growing up there. Yeah, I know. It's funny. I think, I'm like, oh, I'm actually part Southern.

Like, I spent, you know, a section in Montana and a section in San Diego and then, like, a really sizable section in the South. Yeah. I think I picked up, like, a little twang by the end of it. Yeah, no, I think they were happy for me. And I think it was really nice to be taken out of Los Angeles. I think that's a tough city to live in when you're young and alone and women. to North Carolina is like a much more manageable pace.

And tell me about Grams because you've been talking about her a lot. Even in the last few months, why was she such an important figure in your youth? Because you were a kid. Yeah, so she immediately took me under her wing. And I felt, you know, I didn't have family there. I didn't have parents that were there. I didn't have. and she really filled that role for me.

And she also was kind of like the first real artist that I ever met. And she told me stories about New York City and plays and playwrights. And she invited me to come stay with her. And she took me places. And she told me about this place where I could go and make a life and have a career and do really fun and exciting work. And she told me that that, was possible for me, even though I was on like a teen soap opera, she would talk to me about

the future and what that could look like for me. Wow. And she saw something in you, clearly, she took you under her wing and believed that you could do all the things you've done. Yeah, I guess like she was the first person who took me kind of seriously, honestly. And so you took that inspiration and did what with it? Where did that take you? I started doing off-Broadway theater and I did a play called Killer Joe with no experience and no training really just because she said that I could and and then I did Williams Town and I did a check-off play because she said that I could and I just believed her she believed in me and I trusted her and it made me feel safe to try new things that

I had no real like business doing because I was so untrained Isn't it amazing to have a guide like that? I mean, if you hadn't met her, how different things could have been, right? I know. I think about it a lot. You know, it was that one person who really kind of set me on a different path that I wouldn't, I wouldn't even really have known about, and I certainly wouldn't have had, like, the courage or, like, the belief in myself to try these things that she was telling me about. But, you know, she was such an esteemed stage actress herself, so I thought, well, maybe she's not lying to me. Like, I'm not.

I must be allowed to try this stuff. So I, she's... She was right about you. She was right. Look at you. It's kind of amazing. I was looking back at an interview I did with your friend, Jake Gyllenhaal, a couple of years ago. We were talking about Brokeback Mountain, and he was saying he knew it was a great script,

and while you were shooting it, he felt it was a different and kind of a very cool movie. But once it came out, He said it was so much bigger than the four of us, as he said it became something else. What was that time in your life like? It was huge for you personally and professionally, but just to be a part of something that really had such an impact on the culture. Yeah, so hugely. And continues, too.

You know, I think that was such a big experience. I mean, in so many ways. But to see people be represented for the first time. to see the, it makes me emotional to think about it, because to see like the emotion, you know, the, it was really, I mean, I sort of was on the side of it. I was watching, you know, what, how men reacted and how they would relate to Heath and Jake

when the emotion that they held finally being able to see themselves on screen. And so to be part of something that felt, like that wasn't just a movie, That was a profound moment. I don't know what you would call it. It's not even political. It's just on a human level. So to be a part of a movie that sort of transcends the film

and speaks to people in such a deep way. Yeah, it was incredibly special. And then the four of you sort of find yourself at the Oscars. and all these things are changing in your life. Like that. I mean, to step into that world, really for the first time, I think it's fair to say. What did that do to your life?

I mean, it had a big impact on a lot of people's lives outside of yours, but what did it mean to yours? Oh, it was such a shock. I mean, I'm like, definitely not picture myself at the Oscars. You know, I was on Baywatch. So those two things, I don't know, they go together. But it was wonderful, you know, We had a, it was a wonderful, we were part of this, you know, important movie, and we had a beautiful, healthy little baby, and it was a, it was a great moment in time.

And then from there, you go on in your career doors sort of open and you get all these opportunities. So was that a fun time for you to sort of just look at the world and read script and be in demand a little bit after that? No, no, I think it was really unnerving, you know, sort of after that, like, what do you do, what do you do next? I had never felt like people, I never really had attention on me before in that kind of a way. And I think that attention can be sort of destabilizing. You know, well, now it feels like, well, people are watching. What if I make a mistake? That's really scary.

What would happen to me? So I think I felt a little bit frozen for a moment creatively about where I would go next. because I felt so free to try things before that, because I didn't think anybody was really paying attention or really cared that much. So there was a lot of liberation in that, and I could just try and grow and develop and study and, you know, an experiment. And then it becomes, you have to sort of really get tough inside

to continue to experiment when you can feel people's eyes on you. But it does feel like you made smart decisions along the way, whether, I mean, it's always a crap shoot, I guess, right? I mean, but you've got, you've been nominated four times since then, and clearly you've given good performances and chosen good films and worked with good directors. Is there a strategy to that for you, or you just say, I like that director, I want to work with her or with him?

Is that kind of what it is? Yeah, yeah, it's very instinctive. It's very, it almost feels like, it's like a decision that you've made without making. It feels, it's instantaneous, it's like a reaction that happens between you and a piece of material, or it doesn't. So it's like this invisible bonding thing that happens once you finish a piece of material and you're like, well, there it is. Okay. And some of it is logical and then some of it is a mystery about, well, why this?

Like what about this am I meant to be working on right now? And what about this is going to actually work on me and expand me as a person, as a mother? You know, I think that you, I think that the women that I've played have been, like, great teachers for me. Because I can't just be myself. So I get to expand my definition of, like, who I am and what I'm capable of with each of these roles that I take. That's interesting. I was reading something that said Michelle Williams takes roles where women are fragile but strong or tragic in some way. ways sometimes. Does that feel like an accurate assessment? Did you see I feel pretty?

That's it. Okay, fair, fair, yes. So there's no consistent type of character that you look at. No, not really, no. And I think, you know, there are circumstances that come into play, like, where does it shoot? And, of course, you know, I think so much of it is about who's directing it because they're the, they set the tone. So there are, like, you know, other factors. But As far as the roles, I don't know that there's like a common bond. But there's always things like when I did Fosse Verdon, I thought, oh gosh, I've never aged. I've always been afraid to play older than I am because I don't know what that's like. And how can I, how would I do that convincingly?

And so I thought, well, that's, you know, this spans decades. Okay, like I haven't done that before. That would be a really, I would love to try. A new challenge. Yeah. So you talked about doing theater when you did cabaret to stay close to home. And I think you said that was like the hardest or at least the scariest thing you've done as an actor or one of them anyway. You did it for personal reasons to be close to home.

Was that thrilling? Was it terrifying? What was it? You know, I kind of thought when I took that job, no matter what happens at the end of it, I'm going to be better. I'm going to get the kind of training that I missed because I, you know, I didn't go to an acting school or even really any school. So they're going to be experienced professionals there, and I'm going to learn a lot from them.

It was a hard job because it was so long. It was a year. Yeah. From the start of rehearsals to the last show, that's a year of eight shows a week. That's a year of working six days a week. I don't know if anything will ever be that hard ever again. That's no joke.

The eight shows a week. Yeah. And when they show up, you better be there, too. Yeah. Yeah. They don't want to see the in for Michelle Williams today in the program. And did that job then make, in your eyes, Fossie Burden possible for you to play Gwen in some way? Yeah, I think they all kind of grow out of each other.

Like, I don't feel like I could have played Gwen if I hadn't done cabaret. And I couldn't have, for greatest show. And, like, they're all, they build on each other. And so I think that's what's so exciting about doing things that you haven't done before because you get this new skill set. And then you think, well, where am I going to take it next time? Like, what can I now? What am I going to get to apply this to in the future? Yeah, it is fun to watch you sort of build in these different roles in your career,

which raises the question, what's next for you? Who knows? What's still out there? Is there more, like, is they're directing? Is there, just like the world's open to you and you're always open to whatever's thrown at you, it seems like. I am. I do, I like to, I like to be surprised. Like, I like to sort of not know what's next.

and then to sort of be struck by the feeling of, oh, this is it. You know, I like that kind of mystery. But I don't, I'm really happy acting. I really, I love it. I'm so curious about it. There's so much that I want to learn. There are places that I, it's almost like, you know, you can, there are things that I can't do.

And I like, and I want to, and you only learn. by doing. So I'm excited for like whatever the next thing is that takes me to the place of like where I can't do it. After our sit down conversation, Michelle and I moved over to the bar. Now it was, I think it was noon maybe so we didn't have a drink. Should we have had a drink? Maybe we should have had a drink. But instead we had a cup of tea to talk about why she loves New York, a little bit more than Los Angeles, perhaps, among many other topics.

I had the tea waiting for us. I was very thoughtful of you. And I bought out the restaurant. So we could have a really private conversation. Exactly, exactly. Do you like the little, what do we get some mint tea here? Who doesn't like a mint tea? I don't want to make them.

So you've been a New Yorker for a long time. I know. I think I'm a New Yorker at this point. Yeah, I identify as a New Yorker. Somebody asks me where you're from. I say New York. It's a good thing to be, isn't it? Like you were saying at a young age, it was good to get out of L.A.

Yeah. Like a little bit of distance from the world of show business. Do you feel that here? Yeah, I don't feel like I'm in a, I don't feel like it's a one industry town. I feel like my friends do all kinds of interesting things, and my daughter's friends do all kinds of interesting things, and keeps your options open. And maybe a better way to raise some kids, too.

You know, it can be like urban living can be, you know, interesting, and like the climate, you know, when you're trying to get everybody's, mittens on in the morning and stuff them into a bag and a stroller and you're like, well, there must be an easier way, but something about this place, I just can't really imagine ever leaving it. And you have an ever-growing

collection of mittens too, so you know? Yeah, we have so true. You have more mittens coming. Thank goodness they come on a string. I was reading something about you, you can tell me if it's not true, which is you don't like watching your own movies. True? No, I don't.

Really? What is that about? I love, I like being on the inside. Like, I, the experience of making the movie, like, that's what I'm there for. Like, that's where I do my work. That's where I do my learning. And the finished product, it's like, well, I don't have any control over it anymore. And so something about seeing it frozen in time. And becoming an audience member instead of performer is just isn't the relationship that I want to have to the piece of work.

I want to always. think that that woman is still inside of me and I don't want to see her from the outside. First of all, I totally sympathize. Can't watch myself in TV. Can't hear myself on a podcast. Don't want to do it. I don't want to do it. I don't think we're meant to look at ourselves like that. I agree. Do you have any curiosity, though, if you flip back and go through the guide on the TV and one of your movies is on, you ever want to drop in? Maybe like if I quit acting and I'm just like, retired, then I'll sort of check it out because I'll be, it won't mean, it won't have the same stakes for me anymore. Right. But that's not happening. I think we've established. You're always going.

You're always growing. I don't know. I don't know. We'll see. We'll see. I've been doing it for so long now. I've been doing it for 30 years. 30 years. Yeah, isn't that like retirement? That's wild. Don't you get like a gold watch? Gold watch. Yeah. 30 years is no joke. That's like a full career. I know. And you're only, you know, 25. It's an amazing bunch. Amazing thing. What is the number one movie or show you will hear about if you're

walking down the street? Love you in what? What do they talk about? Gosh, you know, to say, Wendy and Lucy really comes back to me and, like, in a way that I'm surprised because, you know, it's such a small movie and you really have to sort of seek those films out. But I

actually think it might be the one that I hear about the most. I mean, I've really Recently, it's been the Fableman's because that's been out. Right. Right. But, like, sort of over time, Wendy and Lucy is the one that people feel like they kind of, like, want to go out of their way to say something about it, which I'm always just so super happy to hear.

And I think, oh, you like that movie? Like, we would be friends. Where are you going now? What are we doing today? Like, I really, I feel like an instant bond with anybody who loves that movie. It does show someone who really knows you. They don't go for the obvious pick, right? But, I mean, I also love a greatest showman fan.

Well, my wife on the way over, I called her, said I was coming to talk to, and she said, Greatest John. Tell her I loved it. She always has like that. I mean, she loves all your movies, but that was the one for her. Because you watch it with the kids. You watch it with the kids. I know it's, I know, I know.

Yeah. I mean, that movie I have seen. You've seen that? Well, I made it at an age when my daughter was just like in the prime spot to appreciate it. So I know that movie very well. That raises an interesting question. Does your daughter know your movies? I mean, beyond that one?

Yeah, you know, she recently went to go see a screening of the Fableman's, and she went to go see showing up. She went when it was at, when it came out at New York Film Festival. So she's at an age now where she's interested in the sort of adult work, adult choices that I make. But for a long time, it was just so fun to make things for her, you know, to make, like, the greater showman, to make Oz the Great and Powerful, and to, like you said, make movies that you can watch over and over with your kids that you get to be in. Right. She'd give you notes on anything.

So they think that you're cool. Any acting notes, anything like that from your daughter? She actually even saw Meeks Cutoff, come to think of it. She saw Meeks Cutoff and then, like, explained what she thought the movie was about in this, like, really beautiful way. I was like, wow, Kelly's movies, you know, also have a teen demographic. She's got an absolute... Wendy and Lucy's the one you hear about the most. Now you're back with another one with Kelly.

It's awesome. Congratulations. Thank you very much. Cheers. Thank you. She's host of T. M. We do. My big thanks again to Michelle for a great conversation.

You can see her movie showing up in theaters this Friday. And my thanks to all of you for listening. If you want to hear more of our conversations every week, be sure to click follow so you never miss an episode. And don't forget, of course, to tune in to Sunday today every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit Down podcast.