Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Natalie Portman

Episode Date: January 13, 2019

This year will mark the 25th anniversary of Natalie Portman’s film debut in “Léon: The Professional,” where she played a 12-year-old child assassin. In this week’s “Sunday Sitdown,” Willie Geist talks with the Israeli-born actress about the ups and downs of her long career since then, which included a four-year break to earn a degree from Harvard. She also opens up about the dark role she takes on in her latest film, “Vox Lux.” Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Thank you so much, as always, for clicking and joining us again this week. My guest is Oscar-winning actress Natalie Portman. We got together to talk about her latest film called Vox Lucks. It is an amazing, super creative, totally different film where she plays a survivor of a school shooting who becomes a pop star after the tribute song she makes for her fellow students becomes a viral hit. She goes on to become like a Lady Gaga level superstar and all that comes with that fame, including a downfall. It's a wild story. She's really, really good in it, and we'll let

her explain the backdrop to it and the context for the movie. We also talk about how she got into showbiz. She's only 37 years old, but she's been doing this for 25 years. She got discovered as a young girl in a pizza parlor near her home in Long Island. She was born in Jerusalem, in Israel, moved with her family when she was a little girl to the United States and really grew up out on Long Island in New York. She also talks about keeping some sense of normalcy because her parents were all about school. She surrounded herself with parents and friends and tried not to have a showbiz life. She got the job on Star Wars, Phantom Menace when she was a teenager. She was in high school.

And then you'll remember she kind of dropped out a little bit and went to Harvard, not dropped out of school, but dropped out of Hollywood a little bit. and went to school at Harvard. We talk about how she stayed normal there. What was it like to be a movie star on the campus of Harvard? Also get into Black Swan, the role for which she won the best actress Oscar. And a couple of years ago, she was nominated again for Jackie, where she played former First Lady Jacqueline Kennedy. A lot to talk about with Natalie Portman.

Just to set the scene for you, we're sitting in a restaurant called Vandal down on the Bowery in New York City. She ordered the tea. I had some tea because once again, and I promise this is the last. last time. My voice is a little raspy, but I'm back now. I'm better. So enjoy the great conversation with Natalie Portman on the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Thank you, Natalie, for doing this. Thank you so much for having me. And once again, for bearing with me a little bit. Oh, no. My raspiness. It's, it's barely raspy. Okay, good. Taking good care. I told you I just finished watching this

film. And man, it hits you. And it hits you on so many different levels. And there's so much in there about the culture, about the country, about the last 20 years of the country. When you first read this script, what did you even make of it? Because there is so much there. Well, I think the first thing that struck me was just this character, which was so unlike anything I'd ever had the opportunity to play and was so well written, but was such a specific person that I feel like I know, you know, that felt like a real person.

And that was shifting all the time. Like, she just is different in every scenario. She can be really aggressive and very vulnerable. She can be very artificial and very authentic and cruel and then have a kind moment. Like, it's always just shifting like a real person in different scenarios. And it was really exciting. And then, of course, like you're saying, it has this real reflection of this moment that we live in that seems so particular and hard to reflect without saying anything directly about, like, current events or anything, but really just had this atmosphere of the pop culture and the violence

and this kind of, as Brady, our director calls it the pageantry of evil, you know, the spectacle of, you know, bad, badness. Right. So what do you think the movie says about all those things? Because you get, you know, the moment of Columbine effectively with school shooting. We hear about 9-11. there's a terror attack that is inspired in some way by pop culture, by your character, and her band. What does the movie want to say about the times we've live in now and the times we've lived in over the last quarter century? Well, I don't think there's a message

that for the film, it's very much a conversation and inspires a lot of ideas and conversation, so I think the audience brings a lot of it. But I do think it makes us question, what is the effect of pop culture and violent events being reported the same way, for example, that you can look at your Apple News and it'll tell you about a celebrity breakup right next to, you know, a story of a mass shooting. Like, what is the effect of that when those are being put out in the same level?

And also, what is the power of our attention? When we give attention to something, do we give it? great power because it means it's important. And then does that perpetrate more, you know, like mimicry of that kind of behavior? Because you know in this climate that to get attention, you have to be extreme. And whether you're extremely obnoxious in an interview as a, as a rock star or whatever, or if you're extremely, you know, violent, That's what gets attention now. So how does that all relate?

And what is this climate that we're living in where all of it's mixed up, where pop culture and violence? And then what does it mean? Like, does it devalue every piece of information? I mean, one of the most powerful things that my character says in the movie is someone threatens to reveal something about her. And she's like, who cares? Who's going to care?

And it's true. It's like, what matters anymore? Like, literally the word. worse things can happen, and it'll be big news for five minutes and the next day. It's completely gone. Yeah, that's a terrible commentary, but unfortunately it's right. The news cycle is hour to hour, not even day to day anymore. It's absurdist, yeah. Yeah. Well, so it's interesting to hear you say you related to the character somewhat when you read the script. What did you see in Celeste that you could kind of dial into? You know, I didn't relate in terms of feeling like I was

like her. I don't, I feel like that was one of the opportunities was to play. things that I would never do in my real life. You know, that's the fun of being an actor. But, you know, I definitely relate to this idea of performance. And what does it mean? What is the self that you put out in the world? What is the self that you keep private? How do they influence each other?

What is the person that other people want you to be and are trying to craft you into, you know, the kind of like artifice of an interview of, like, what the interviewer is trying to shape you as what you're trying to get across and it's just a completely kind of artificial play.

Except for this interview. This one is just totally pure and real. But that's an interesting thing and I think everyone has that to a certain extent. How do you present yourself on Instagram versus what your life is really like

or how do you act at a dinner party versus how you are at home alone or in a job interview or whatever, we're always kind of playing roles, we're always putting on faces. And there's all these different sides of ourselves that we show to different people and to ourselves. And that just kind of gets like more extreme when you're a public figure. One of the many incredible scenes is the last one.

I mean, the last, I guess it's 20 minutes or so, where you just put on a concert and it's you singing and it's you dancing and I guess your husband choreographed, the moves. Was that a scary prospect to say, this is going to be my voice and my dancing? There's no overdub. There's no stunt double. This is all me out there. Yeah, it's definitely scary, especially when you want to just be believable, too, as a pop star. But I was lucky.

I mean, there's a lot of production that goes into pop music. So it's my voice, but like with some help. A little auto tune involved there? There's a little, if not a lot of auto tune. And, you know, with the dancing, luckily my husband's really wonderful and also knows my strengths and weaknesses. So it was kind of able to choreograph around that. And it was really fun. It was like mainly really fun because it is, you know, that's kind of, there's another line that the character says when she's younger,

which is like, I don't want people to have to think too much. I just want them to have fun, like, about her music. And you kind of get that relief at the thing. end of the movie. It's like there's a lot of ideas and a lot of like interesting things to go debate with your friends or, you know, think about yourself after the movie. But then the last 15 minutes, you can kind of just like turn off and listen to awesome see a song. It's a show. Yeah, exactly. They wanted a show. I gave him a show. One of the comparisons before I saw the movie, the sort of seems to be the cheap, easy one is

it's like a star is born, but not really a star is born. Then I watch it. It's not anything like a star is born. She's sort of the antithesis of that, actually. Yeah. And I think it makes a statement, correct me if I'm wrong, about a culture. Obviously, she had unique circumstances, but a culture that values certain things and elevates certain people and puts a value on, you know, image and all the rest of it. Could you find any of that from your own life? I mean, obviously, you're being a movie star is different than being a rock star.

Yeah, it's different. You don't put yourself out there on social media and all those things. But did you feel any of that? relationship to that? Yeah, I think that there's definitely, there's definitely a certain way that young girls in particular are sort of packaged in the, in the public eye, you know, where there's this combination of like innocence and, you know, sexiness that they're like putting together and putting out, which is, like, is, like, you know, it. It's just a wild thing to, you know, have been a part of myself and also that the movie definitely looks at.

And then, of course, you know, the scandal of the desire to have scandal and, like, the disregard for what a person might really be going through in their life, like, when she's, you know, having a hard time talking to her kid and this person kind of wants to talk to her. You know, I don't have those exact experiences, and I feel like my experience in those arenas has been on a much smaller scale, because I don't have that level of, like, everyone knows you, everywhere you go, kind of fame that a pop star does. Is that by design for you at all? Because you are a movie star, everybody knows who you are. Right. But I don't see pushing yourself out there the way some people do. Yeah, I mean, I think part of it has been a desire to keep private life private.

But I also think that for actors and pop stars, it's just a different story. It's a different level. And also, we play characters, so people don't expect us to be like what they see on screen, whereas a pop star is like a version of themselves. So I think when people, if people attack your persona, it's you, so it's much more personal as opposed to like me. I can be like, oh, this was a character that was written for me. And also that, you know, people feel like they're really seeing you up there when you're a pop star because it's your persona. But you've been doing it for so long. I couldn't believe.

Back into the research, how long you've been at it and you're still young. That's an incredible. Thank you. Well, you are. It's true. It's just a fact. So is it true that you were nine years old when you were discovered in the pizza place? Yes.

Was that on Long Island? Yes. And then my first film I made when I was 11. Right. I turned 12 while she did. the professional. So what do you say when an agent comes up to you at nine years old and says, you want to be a model? What's that conversation like? Yeah, it was funny. I think my mom was probably the one who was kind of like, wait a minute, like, is this, is this creepy or is this,

you know, something that will help her find her passions? And, you know, I love performing so much growing up that it was really, it felt like this opportunity and was really, really exciting for me to get to pursue something that I loved so much. But I was lucky to have parents who were kind of always very wary and very protective throughout and also who never had any involvement financially ever in my career. So it didn't feel like I had to keep doing it. So it didn't feel like I had to keep doing it to like support them or like if I ever wanted to stop it was you know they were always encouraging me to like take time off step back try other things you know have like a quiet like life with friends from outside of the film industry to make sure that you know it didn't

have that kind of emotional weight of or pressure that that I think is what a lot of kids who are in film industry suffer from But you went hard at a young age and just a pretty heavy, serious roles, too. Like the professional, you sort of skipped the Disney years and went right into, like, drama. Was it? Yeah. Just because it was like I was psyched to do whatever I got and I never got, like, the cute kid roles.

I got, like, the leg, you know, searing kind of dark, fucked up. Oh, I can't say that. We're on tape. You can say whatever you want. I got the, like, dark, kind of complicated, you know. know, weirdo roles. Right. So they said, here's a 13-year-old girl.

She should be an assassin. Yeah. That's a good role for her. Yeah. I mean, at 13, I played an assassin at 14. I played a girl who tried to commit suicide. Like, you know, I did things that were really extreme. But, I mean, I was trying out for all those Disney things.

I just didn't get that. They were like, this one is not chirpy. So it wasn't a choice necessarily. No, I would have done anything I got. That's so funny. And what's impressive to me about you, too, is that you've kept that sort of normalcy throughout your career. There's the famous story about the premiere night of the Star Wars movie.

It's not a true story. Oh, it's famous, but it's a big lie. I don't know where it came from. I went to the premiere of Star Wars. Oh, so that's just not true at all. Okay. Sorry to disappoint. But, well, you know, you talk about your family supporting you.

How did you keep schools important to you, your grades? were important. You going to college was important, even if your career was taking off? Yeah, that was definitely my parents. My parents were just like education, education, education. And really, like, that was the pressure they put on me. They were like, you know, I would come home with a 97 on a test. And my dad would say, where's the other three points? Like, that's the household I grew up in. So that was the pressure in my house was like school. There was never a conversation of like, will you go to college? It was like, what college do you want to go to? You know, it wasn't, it wasn't. an option to skip that. And that was a gift to me because it really did create this environment

for me that I had a big life outside of my work, which I felt was very safe. Because like when I got bad reviews, when my movies tanked, when I couldn't get jobs, because I mean over the past 25 years that I've been working, like there have been many, many times that that's been the case. My friends still loved me. I didn't feel like I lost anything in my private life. And I was able to find safety and comfort in that because, you know, if everything's kind of wrapped up in your success in your work life, then those ups and downs feel really, really devastating when you're down. And when you're like, okay, that didn't work out. But guess what?

There's this fun party to go to with your friends or like, you know, you can go out and cry your heart out to your girlfriend. friends or, you know, let's someone else that you love is having something that's like really actually difficult that they're going through and you're there for them. And that's what keeps you kind of out of the superficiality. And that was, you know, the gift of having a big life separate from my work life. Well, I guess a good case in that point, as you've talked about, despite the massive success of Phantom Menace, work was hard for you after that, which is kind of shocking, I think, to people. Like, you star as a teenager in this massively successful movie, you figure it opens up every door for you. But it was tough for you after

that. Yeah, the film got bad reviews. I got very bad reviews. And it was hard to get hired on things that I cared about after that. But then you were at college, right? You could have some normalcy and just go to school. Yeah, I was at school. And then in work, I was really, really lucky to have Mike Nichols as an advocate for me, which was so lucky, who really became a mentor and would call people up and convince them to hire me, which is like incredibly, incredibly lucky. And that was that Cold Mountain? Yes, exactly. He called Anthony Miguela, and that's how I got Cold Mountain, which is the first time

I worked with Jude Law, who's fantastic. He's really good. It was our fourth time working together. Yeah, and so, I mean, as you made your way along, V for Vendetta was a big one for you, obviously. I mean, there have been a lot of big ones on the way, but I think most people would point to Black Swan a few years later when you won the Oscar. What did that movie mean to you and what did winning that Oscar mean to you in your life? Well, it was an incredible experience making it. I loved, loved all the preparation, the training, Mary Helen Bowers, who'd,

trained me was just incredible and spending almost a year with her working and preparing and hearing stories and really deeply kind of entering that whole ballet world and learning about it. And I just have the greatest respect for ballet dancers. It's just the most unbelievable mix of athletic virtuosity and artistic virtuosity. And it's just, I don't think there's anything like it's remarkable and beautiful and I love watching it and I love being in it. And I also met my husband during that time. So it was magical for for that reason. And then the acting and working with Darren, which was just an incredible collaboration and with the other actors. It was, you know, with Mila and with Vincent and Barbara and Winona. And like, it was just like incredible, incredible people

who I've admired for a really long time. And so it was really a dream. And then when it came out to have people appreciate it, was completely unexpected because I'd been working for probably a decade without having any kind of response in the same way. So that was really, really, really lucky. So, you know, it's very rare that you both have an incredible experience and a great reception.

So it was really, really, really lucky. And then it did open doors afterwards to working with different kinds of directors than had been approaching me previously because, yeah, there had been kind of, there was different kinds of opportunities that came after that. So does it change things for you to have Oscar winner in front of your name? It opens, it opens certain doors and, you know, definitely gives different kinds of opportunities. So it's something I'm incredibly grateful for. You were nominated again for Jackie, of course, our mutual friend, Noah. Yes.

Worked with you on that film. How did you get into that playing a real-life character that people know so well and they know her voice and they know how she looks? Yeah. That's a big challenge, I have to imagine. Yeah, it was really scary to take on, honestly, because I had never really considered myself like good at impressions or anything like that. Obviously, it's much deeper than an impression to do an entire film about someone.

You really want to get into their skin. But I realized how fun it was and how lucky it was to have all of this material because she was so famous. I mean, there's so much out there. There's so many, you know, there's so much video image that you can watch. There's so many transcripts of her actual speech. There's books that she wrote.

There's books that other people wrote about her who knew her. There's just like a wealth of information, which you never get about a character. So much of it is pure imagination. The White House Tour, for example. Yeah, the White House tour was like an exact reproduction. So to really try and replicate that was, you know, you just have all the details at your fingertips to draw from. So it was actually incredible to get to do. And, yeah, it was, like, definitely challenged me to try something that was out of my comfort.

You were great in it. It could go either way, right? People would be like, ooh, no, that's not Jackie. Yeah, exactly. People really are familiar with her, and I don't particularly look like her, you know. So it's scary. Sure. Do you, are you the kind of actor who sort of plots her career?

I've talked to some actors who say, you know what, I look for a good script, or I look for a director I like to work with. or others who say, all right, I did some comedy, you know, I got to do a drama. Do you think that way? Do you have a strategy for your career? I think it's very hard to have a strategy because you don't control your opportunities. Right.

You know, I mean, some people do because they'll, like, write their own things. But if you're an actor kind of waiting for scripts to come your way, waiting to get offers, then you don't get to, you don't control that. So you're just kind of choosing. what is the best, most interesting, most logistically possible of what choices you have if you even are lucky enough to have choices, you know. But sometimes you're just like needing a job. Right. There's, it kind of goes through phases. So yeah, there's definitely, I definitely don't have a strategy.

So you're not like drama, now it's time for a superhero movie or something. I mean, you do get like urges, creatives, Creatively, like, I feel like doing this kind of thing, or I'm not, I can't do something heavy right now because of whatever's going on in my life or I need to do something heavy because I need to, like, exercise this demon or whatever. But you don't have, like, but you don't always have control over, like, what that thing might be. So you've led me my next question. Is there something out there that you haven't done that you're like, I've done a lot of cool movies, but I've never done that. Um, like a proper musical would be really fun. Like, I mean, this obviously has, is a movie with musical elements, but, but, um, uh, vox is, but, um, I would be happy to do like, I don't know, a classic musical.

This might get you there. Now we know you can sing and dance. Yeah. We get a little audition tape. You've just made your pitch to the, to Hollywood. Um, and animated, I would love to do a voice for an animated film. Have you not done that? Never done it. And I would love to. That's like my real dream.

We'll make that happen for it. Thanks. You're good. We just booked you a percentage. Yeah, 10% is fine. You've also been, over the last year, a very vocal in the Times Up and Me Too movement. And you've stepped forward as one of the leading voices. Do you think now as we come up on sort of, I guess, I don't want to call it an anniversary, but one year since it exploded, things are different in Hollywood from your experience? If so, how are they? Well, it's been incredible to get to work with thousands of women in our industry and across industries with Times Up.

And I think that there's been a lot of progress in terms of people talking about it everywhere, that it is a conversation that is central in our culture right now, the abuse of power, the, you know, the under-representation of women and minorities in virtually every industry, in positions of power in particular, the difference in pay across all industries. And that's the first step is the conversation. And I think that going forward, I think the continuing unity, of women, unity of people talking and

agreeing about the things that need to change and then obviously taking steps with legislation, policy, and relating to these things. And companies also taking steps to change their cultures, to change cultures of harassment and abuse of power, to change representation. to change pay, to have pay transparency. All of those are going to be big, big steps.

But it takes time and we're in year one. So there's a lot to celebrate and there's also a lot of work to be done. Do you think it's easier today, Natalie, than it was a year ago or 18 months ago for a woman, even a movie star or a big actor like yourself? to raise her voice now and say, I deserve what he's getting, or this is not okay with me. And if so, like, why was it hard back then for actresses to do that? I think it was, it is much easier. First of all, courage inspires courage.

It's contagious. And we have seen that one woman being brave or one person being brave because it's not just women. It's all people, all kinds of people who are coming forward and speaking up against abuse that they've faced. And I think that those people, I know I have endless gratitude towards because I think that you see what people put at stake, what people risk to come forward and have risked.

And it has inspired those of us who speak after and which inspires the next person, which inspires the next person. And I think it's a signal to each other, to that you're not alone. Other people have experienced the same thing, and we're all working together, and there's power in all of us working together.

And part of the reason they tell women to be quiet, they tell women to sign NDAs about these things. They tell women, you know, that it's not attractive to be angry, that it's not feminine to be angry, that it's not, that it's not, you know, no one likes a, a shrill woman or a bossy woman or a bitchy woman, that there's all of these terms used

to make women be quiet. But what it does is it serve that silence and dangers people because then we don't talk to each other. And when we talk to each other, we realize how much power we have if we work together and also how many shared experiences we have, unfortunately, that these aren't isolated incidents usually. They're clustered, and people who abuse power usually have patterns of abuse. that hit many, many women.

And so, yeah, the speaking up, I think people are also realizing how much speaking up can save another woman. And when you see people like Dr. Ford come forward, you see how much of it is like for other women, even at great expense to themselves. Like, you know it's hurting their own life, but they think that they might be able to protect other people from the same kind of horrors that they've experienced personally. Were you shocked at the sheer number of women and many of them actresses that you've worked with over the years, came out with these stories and experiences that you probably didn't know about as well as you knew them you hadn't talked about with them?

Absolutely. I was, I was, I mean, certain people, of course, you had heard rumors about as perpetrators, but in terms of the extent of the abuse and, yeah, and people I knew who I had never known had experienced that, yeah, people, it was really, it was really, that was surprising. I applaud you for taking the lead on it. Thanks. I mean, I'm not, I would not say, yeah, I'm one of many.

And it's been a great honor to get to be part of it. We were talking about your experience at Harvard a little bit, but what was it like to be movie star Natalie Portman on the campus of Harvard University? You know, I think I was really lucky to have been there before social media. Actually, Facebook was invented when I was a senior by a freshman Mark Zuckerberg at Harvard. So I went to school with no Facebook, no Instagram, no cameras on phones. So I was really able to go about my business and not have it documented for public consumption, which was really lucky because guess what, it's good to like make mistakes and do stupid things when you're a teenager and young adult and not have it haunt you forever. So I was very lucky and kind of like missing that by a fraction of it. You got it just under the wire.

Just under the wire. Thank you, Mark Zuckerberg for being very young. Meanwhile, he's in a dorm room next door trying to... Totally. Everybody else is in trouble. I have to ask you, because you were prized it this year, Natalie Raps, the digital short on SNL. The first time around, I think it was 2006, I want to say. I think that's correct.

And it was a little bit of, like, maybe an image breaker, right? People were like, what? Yeah. I actually just watched it again today, and I still went, what? When SNL brought that to you, what did you think? It was really fun to do. And it actually came out of conversations with the Lonely Island guys when we went on. They had just done Lazy Sunday, which was, of course, viral and incredible.

And I said to them, you know, I really love rap and kind of hardcore rap. And they were so surprised by that that they were like, okay, we're going to do something with this. because, again, like I was talking about in box lux, there's this kind of packaging of the female, you know, young pop star. And I had a similar thing as an actress that I felt like they were like, oh, she's the smart, serious one. Like they put me in this box or whatever, which was a very nice box to put me in.

And it was like, thanks, guys. But it made people kind of like have this kind of image of me that was not what I necessarily felt like, you know, or at least not was, was not all of me. Like I could be both things. I could be more than one thing, you know. And so it was fun to get to kind of challenge that with the rap, which also you always, you know, can find the most humor in breaking expectations. Yes. Yeah.

Unless you had Andy in a Viking costume. I mean, Andy in a Viking costume just wins all the time. That works. It was already great, and that really brought it home. Yeah. Great. Thank you. Thank you. My thanks to Natalie Portman for a great conversation.

You can catch her new movie Vox Lux in theaters now. And my thanks, as always, to each of you for tuning in this week. If you like what you hear, be sure to check out the library of extended conversations with all my guests, including some great recent ones with Marco Robbie, Jerry Seinfeld, Jalo, just to name a few. And don't forget to click subscribe to your new episodes every Sunday. And, of course, tune in to Sunday today every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. We'll talk to you next week on the Sunday Sit Down podcast.