Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Olivia Rodrigo on Owning Her Music and Finding Her Voice (September 2023)

Episode Date: August 31, 2025

Olivia Rodrigo skyrocketed to global fame with her record-breaking debut Sour, reshaping pop music with her voice, lyrics, and honesty. In this conversation from September 2023, she and Willie talk about the release of her sophomore album Guts, the way she tells stories through her music, and why she refuses to reveal the true inspiration behind her hit single “Vampire.” Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks as always for clicking and listening along. Boy, oh boy, do I have a big one for you this week? One of the biggest stars in all of music and the woman of the moment in music, Olivia Rodriguez. She's out with a new album called Guts. It, of course, is the follow-up to the 2021 smash that introduced her to the world called Sour with hits like Driver's License, Good for You, Deja Vu. Her new album, just out, and man, it's already doing big business. Her first single called Vampire Went to Number One. You remember when she blew up in January of 2021 with the album Sauer on that single Driver's License, she had done Disney TV. She was known in that world, but not known the way she would be basically overnight when driver's license came out. Remember, during the pandemic, January 2021, think back to that time.

She's home in California. She's a senior in high school. She's 17 years old in her parents' house. This single goes out, and people suddenly love her. They know her. They know her face. They know her name. And so she was going through all this without being able to go out and promote it or going

out and performing any of it. She was just at home watching her life change. It's kind of an extraordinary story. And her new album, her fans already love it. So I should tell you that our interview took place just minutes after she stepped off the stage during the Friday concert series on the Today Show. So she draws a huge crowd to Rockefeller Center outside. Fans and their moms and everybody else sleeping out on the street overnight for a couple of days just to get a glimpse of her into here. So she does the show, delights the fans,

then comes off a few minutes later, sits down with me. And all I can say is she is an absolute delight. I'd never met her before. She has everything she appears to be. She's charming. She's funny. She's personable. She's incredibly polite for what that's worth. I mean, said hello to everybody in the room, very engaging. And still, I think, a couple of years into this, in a bit of shock, a bit of disbelief at the way her career has gone. So I hope you sit back, relax, enjoy getting to know a little bit better. Olivia Rodriguez right now on the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Thank you so much for doing this. Thank you for having me. I mean, I feel so lucky to catch you in this very moment. And by this moment, I mean like these last few hours. Your album just came

out like nine hours ago. You just stepped off the stage to a huge crowd. How are you feeling today? I am feeling surprisingly calm. I'm feeling really happy. I was telling you before I, yesterday I was in fits of anxiety. But today I'm like, wow, what a nice life that I get to live. I'm just so stoked to be here. So it's a good mindset. And is the anxiety? Because I've heard other artists say this. is I just poured a lot of my stuff out. Yeah. And now the public's going to hear about all of it. Yeah, it's a little of that.

I mean, I'm a very diaristic songwriter, and I write all my songs just from a place of wanting to get something off of my chest and, you know, talk about how I feel. And then it's not until like a week or so before I put it out where I'm like, huh, what are going to think about me, like talking about this weird stuff that goes on in my head. Like, I wonder what they're going to say. So just processing that. But it's part of the job.

It's a little too late at that point, by the way. It's a little too late. Yeah, the train has left the station. Totally. Well, the reviews are amazing, and I'm going to embarrass you a little bit. I hope you don't mind. I'm just going to read one from Rolling Stone this morning. Just one line.

It reads, all over guts. She's so witty, so pissed off, so angsty at the same time the way only a rock star can be. And this is the album of a truly brilliant rock star. Wow. Talking about you in Rolling Stone. How does that sound? That's amazing. Yeah, I mean, I love that.

I've always loved rock music. And I think that I really leaned into that in this album more so than I did probably in my first album. And so, yeah, it's really cool that people are jiving with it. So guts is, as you say, it's different than sour for a variety of reasons. You're a couple years older, wiser. He'd been through a lot in these last two years. Sure. When you sat down to write the songs for guts and to sort of compile this album, what did you want to say?

What did you have to say this time around? Yeah, I think that the first album was very much about heartbreak, and I love that. That's what I needed to say at the time. It was very heartbroken. And I think this time around I was just more thinking about the pressures of young adulthood and, you know, sort of the growing pains that come along with just turning 20. I wrote the album when I was 19 and 20, and I think it also just takes itself a lot less seriously, which I really enjoy. It's very playful and fun. And I just wanted to make songs would be really cool to sing at a concert and jump around too. So I feel like that's what we tried to do. You think about that is the live performance element too when you're writing a song? Yeah. I mean, we were talking about this too off off air. Like I hadn't played a show when I put out sour. I didn't, I hadn't gone on a tour. My second performance was SNL in this building. It was just quite crazy. And so I didn't really have that live performance going under my belts. And after going on tour, I was really inspired.

by the way that a crowd sort of ingests music. And so I think I wrote that, this album with that in mind. Is it fair to say this album has a little more of an edge than Sauer did? I feel a lot of that punk rock that you listened to growing up and some of your inspiration in this album. Is that right? I think so. I've always loved rock music and I think I've kind of found this new confidence that maybe I didn't have before. It's just do whatever I want and not be confined to some, you know, pop box, I guess. So you've said that the last couple of years you've grown up by a decade, much more than the two years or so. What do you mean when you say that? And obviously your life was turned upside down a couple of years ago when you became this global sensation.

How much are you different today than you were when you were writing those songs for Sauer? Oh my gosh. I'm a completely different person. I mean, I wrote all those songs for Sauer when I was 17 and I'm 20 now. And obviously my life has changed drastically, you know, my career and my environment, everything's so different. But I just think all of that pales in comparison to how much you change as an individual from the ages of 17 to 20. I learned so much about myself and who I wanted to be and the people that I wanted to surround myself with. And you sort of just, yeah, I have sort of this new confidence that I didn't have before.

You have such a maturity in your songs about things like heartbreak and relationships, even unsour. And as you say, you were 16, 17 years old writing these sort of sophisticated songs that I don't think I have a 16 year old daughter. I'm not sure most teenagers have thought through in that way or can articulate in the way that you have. Where does that, I guess, emotional maturity come from? How do you think so deeply and express it so well at your age? Thanks. I mean, I've been writing songs since I could talk. I've always been doing it. So I've written so many songs in my life, written so many bad songs, got a lot of practice.

But I don't know, it's this weird thing, and it sounds kind of like woo-woo, but I really believe that really good songs kind of don't come from you. They kind of come through you, you know? It's kind of like something else. It's like a magical thing. And sometimes you write a song and you're like, wow, I don't even know how that came to be. It's just kind of this beautiful flow. So I credit a lot of my songs to that sort of magic. Well, just so you know, most mortals don't have number one hits flowing through their bodies when they sit down at a piano. But I think vampire was that way a little bit too, wasn't it? Where you sat down at a piano and it just sort of happened?

Yeah, I was getting ice cream with my friends. And I was really upset about this thing that I wrote Vampire about. And I just had this burning desire to sit down at the piano. And I remember sitting down the piano. And the chorus just came. I was like, oh, vampire, I don't know, just popped into my head. I hadn't really ever thought about writing a song like that. And, yeah, it just kind of came really naturally.

I respect that you don't talk about who your songs are about. I do. Thanks. But what theme is that song about? What did you want to get out with vampire? Yeah, I mean, I was a little worried at first putting that song out because it is kind of touch on this new fame element of my life. which I think, you know, it's really tricky to write songs about that.

It can very quickly become unrelatable. But I think at the core of it, that song is really about being manipulated and regretting the decisions that you made in any relationship. And so I think if you boil it down, that's really what it is. So why is it so important to you? Because this is true of all your songs to not talk publicly about who or what exactly it's about. Is that just so that they can remain more universal and not specifically to your songs?

life, but something everyone can relate to? Totally. I think explanation is never good for art. You know, there are so many songs that I listen to at a young age where I'm like, wow, this songwriter wrote it just for me in my situation. And obviously they didn't, but why would I like pigeonhole a song into being about this one thing in my life when everyone has their own interpretation? It's the beauty of music. And the connection that you feel, you probably just felt it an hour ago out there on the

plaza where you put out this song, you know, not so long ago. and you look into the eyes of a young girl who has tears in her eyes and is singing every word of the song, I would imagine that's sort of what it's all about. Yeah, it's incredibly powerful. I mean, you're right, I did experience some of that out there. Going on tour, I experienced that every night. It's just really, really insane. I think it just makes me feel less alone in my feelings.

You know, when I write this song about some specific instance that, you know, where I felt this really strong way and then I look out into the crowd, and I see some girl who felt the exact same way, it just makes me realize that, you know, we're also much more alike than we are different and no one's ever really alone in their feelings. Is it still a trip to you to have that feeling, which is to say when you go out on tour

or you do a show like you did this morning, to go out into a stage, a song you wrote maybe with one other person in the privacy of a little room and you feel like maybe someone will connect with this to hear an entire arena or an entire stadium singing those words back to you. Yeah, I think it's a feeling that you never really get used to. Even out there an hour ago, put out a song, what, nine hours ago and people knew all the lyrics already. I said, oh my gosh,

they work so fast. It's amazing. Yeah, it is really surreal. I mean, I think songs are one of the most powerful mediums there are, you know, you can write a song in 20 minutes and, you know, a huge crowd of 5,000 people could sing every word, you know. It's just, it's really powerful. There's a lot of responsibility in that, I think. Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sitdown podcast. Stick around to hear more from Olivia Rodriguez right after the break. Welcome back now more of my conversation with Olivia Rodrigo. I mentioned some of your influences as a kid, which you were a very cool, 12-year-old, you know, listening to No Doubt and Alanis Morissette and the white stripes and then throw in some Billy Joel and some Joni Mitchell.

When did the music bug start for you? I know you took voice lessons when you were in kindergarten, so it was pretty early, but at what point did you say, not only do I love listening to this music, but I want to give it a shot myself? I don't know exactly when I think I was probably 12 or 13 when I started really playing stuff on the piano. I started learning chords and really taking songwriting seriously.

And, yeah, it's just been such a joy since then. I feel like I learn so much about songwriting every day. Even now, I just feel like there's so much that I don't know and so much that I'm curious about. So it's a lifelong journey. Do you remember those first songs when you were 12? Yeah, it's so funny. I listen back to it. I still have them on my phone and I'm like, gosh, I was so angry.

It's such a perspective. I'd write all these, like, feminist songs about like all these like people that wronged me or like all these issues that I had. And I'm like, you're in sixth grade. Like, what's going on? I don't know. So where does that come from? because that speaks to what I was asking you earlier. There's some wisdom that's, you know, most people your age don't have,

certainly 12-year-olds don't have or some feeling able to express yourself in that way. What do you think is at the root of that? Gosh, I couldn't tell you. I don't know. I just love it so much. It's more of a feelings thing for me. And my parents are super into music and they definitely influenced me and definitely influenced my taste so much.

But I couldn't tell you. I've just always loved it. I don't know. We were talking a minute ago about parents. I was telling you about my kids, and you said yours gave you the space to be who you wanted to be, do the things that you wanted to do. What has this ride of the last two and a half, three years been like for them? My parents are the least, like my parents are so not stage parents at all. They don't have like a stage parent bone in their bodies.

they are just so chill ever since I was young. I started out acting. I was on two Disney shows from the time I was like 12 to 18 or 19. And I was so driven. They were always like, if you don't want to do this, we'd be happy not to drive your auditions every week, you know? And they never applied to any pressure. And I've just been so wonderful and supportive.

And I just owe everything to them. They're really wonderful. And what do they think right now when they're watching you on the Today Show? My mom's here. Actually, she watched it. She said, that was the best concert of the year, Olivia. Thanks, Mom. And maybe the secret to the success is them not putting that pressure on you, right?

Totally. Do what you want to do. Yeah, I think it made me more self-motivated. You know, I think sometimes when your parents tell you to do something, you never want to do it when you're 16. You're like, I'm doing my own thing, but it was always very self-motivated. They're smart. Your parents know what they're doing. I was thinking back to January of 2021 when driver's license.

came out and the way you tell it, it's just, we take it for granted now because it was such a big song that it was meant to be that way, but you were, it was COVID, right? Your home, you put out this song, you're at your parents' house, you're still a senior in high school, and then you wake up one morning and everybody knows your name and everyone's singing that song. With two and a half years of perspective on that now, how do you describe what that was like? It's really interesting. I feel like at the time, I didn't quite realize how much it would change my life. In the moment, I was just so full of adrenaline. I'm like, hey, let's get the next song out. Let's do the album. And it wasn't until recently where I really had the space and time to take a step back and be like, whoa, that was insane.

That was such a huge moment for me, something that I'll remember when I'm 85. And I love that song so much just for me. I wrote that song and loved it because it just so acutely expressed what I was going through at the time. And the fact that it resonated in the way that it did is just so meaningful. I owe so much to that song and it opened so many doors for me. So just full of so much gratitude for it. And as it's setting streaming records and going to number one and SNL is doing an entire sketch and you're watching this happen to your song and to your life. What's going through your mind? What are you thinking?

How are you handling that? Honestly, a healthy level of dissociation goes along. Yes. Yeah. When I was 17 or 18, you know, you just can't really read into all of that too much. You kind of just have to put your horse blinders on and focus on what you can control because so much of it is just beyond anything you could really fathom or control, you know. And then you proved that it wasn't just about that song. I mean, you put another one a hit, another one a hit.

And it became the biggest album of the year. Again, Rolling Stone called it the best album of the year. So as you were sitting down now to write guts, did you feel like, okay, this better be good. A lot of people are waiting to see, she did it once, can she do it again? Is she going to keep the same sound? Is she going to change it? Did you feel all that when you were putting this album together? So much pressure.

And everyone always says, like, your only competition is yourself. And I was like, oh, God, my only competition is myself. I don't know how I'm going to beat this. That was just such crazy success that I could have never expected or prepared myself for. And so I definitely, I mean, I won't lie, I had a really tricky time setting out to make guts. But I think kind of halfway through the writing process, I sort of shifted my mindset into not trying to beat something or make a song that would go number one. And I just tried to make songs that I would like to hear on the radio. And that's when kind of the real good stuff started happening.

I had a lot more fun and the songs really improved. So, yeah, I think at the end of the day, you just have to focus on doing what you love and making songs that you enjoy. That's all you can do. As you sit here and just talking to you and hearing from other people, you have clearly have a really good head on your shoulders. You've got a great family. You've sort of somehow kept yourself centered through this insane ride. What has the fame side been like for you? That thing that I mentioned where everybody knows your name, everybody knows your face. Has life gotten more difficult in some ways, or are you enjoying it? Yeah, I mean, it's always a double-edged sword. It's sure life has gotten difficult in some ways, but easier in others.

And I'm just really happy to be where I am and, you know, have all of these opportunities. Yeah, it's a really interesting thing. I think that I also sort of got a soft introduction to it because of my childhood, you know, acting and sort of being in that world, without being, you know, I wasn't super front-facing, but I was introduced to it at a young age. And so I think I luckily got some time to sort of warm up to the idea before driver's license came out. And obviously that song was, you know, a really huge thing for me. But I think at that point, I think I was maybe a little more prepared. Do you feel you have so many fans and particularly so many young women and girls who look up to you

and love you, do you feel that responsibility with your music, but also the way you carry yourself and your activism and the causes you choose to support, does that all play in that you want to sort of carry your fans along with you on this ride? Yeah, I definitely feel a real kinship towards women and girls. And I feel like my songs are very feminine in the way that I write them. I hope everyone can relate to some parts of them, but I'm very interested in writing about the feminine and stuff like that. And yeah, just to go play a show and see a bunch of girls in the front row, like being really angry or crying or, you know, expressing all these emotions that are sometimes not societally, you know, widely accepted is a really beautiful, powerful thing and makes me feel really lucky that I do what I do.

Well, on that note, people have called you the voice of your generation. They've said that you've sort of captured what it means to be your age or close to your age in this moment. in time. Do you have any sense for what that means exactly? No, my gosh. It's so crazy. It's such a, wow, that's a really big title. Because you're just telling your own story, but it just so happens to reflect what a lot of people are going through. All I can do is be myself, I think, and write songs that I like. And I think the fact that people gravitate towards them is amazing. And but, you know, I can't really think about it too much. It's so overwhelming. I don't know. You're just enjoying this day.

You want to think about being the voice of the generation, at least for now. Stick around for more of my conversation with Olivia Rodriguez right after a quick break. Welcome back now to the rest of my conversation with Olivia Rodrigo. Another thing you've proven over the years is that you're a smart business woman. And going back a few years, you took control of your masters on that deal. How at that point, this was before Sauer. or this is before he became a huge star. How did you have the instinct to do that?

How did you negotiate that? Because it has paid off in a way that other artists have struggled with. Sure. I think that I've been really lucky to be surrounded by people who really look after me and take care of me in a very real, genuine way. That's something that I really have never taken for granted. It's super instrumental, I feel like, in my career. And I don't know, I've just really always wanted to have total creative control over everything that I do.

Like the money part and all of that is great and fun, but it's just so freeing to be able to say whatever you want, express how you feel however you want, and, you know, be in control of your life and career. That's something that's just so meaningful to me. And I feel really happy that I'm in a position where I can have that. It's got to be a trip to, I'm reading like, Carol King. I know, right? people you looked up to when you were young and I'm sure your parents look up to also she's coming out and saying this young woman Olivia is special she's different and you hear arguably the greatest

songwriter alive right now say something like that it's not just your contemporaries it's the greats who are like looking at you and saying she's the one yeah what does that feel like oh wow i can't wrap my head around the carol king one that that was pretty spectacular to see I've met her a few times, too, and she's just the loveliest. I saw her. She came by, and she played so far away or something on the piano for me, and I just died and went to heaven. I'm like, oh, my gosh, it's amazing.

But it's so surreal. I honestly can't really comprehend that. I grew up listening to Carol, and she was one of the first, tapestry was one of the first vinyl records that I ever owned. It's just a really crazy life. I'm pinching myself all the time. Do you think about career arc, or is it too soon? Do you say, not necessarily what you're doing next year in this album right now,

but I'd love to have the career of that artist. Yeah. I mean, I really love Gwen Stefani. I really love the way that she's sort of straddled rock and pop in a really cool way. I think she's super adventurous and takes risks. So I really look up to her. But who's to say? I don't know. I don't know where I'm going to be tomorrow, all alone, in five years. Well, she likes you back, too, apparently. When you floated the idea of working together, she said, let's do it.

I'm ready. I'm ready. When things calm down, I'd love to do that. You're getting it back. So where do you go from here? You had this big day today. The album is out in the world. What are you looking forward to in the next few days and weeks? Yeah. I'm going to have a little party with everyone who's been so generously working on the album with me and hang out with my producer day. and some of my friends. So I'm looking forward to that tonight. That's going to be fun. There's a party. Yeah. I like the jewelry here.

What do we got? Thank you. I don't know if you can see. These are my guts rings. My producer, collaborator, Dan, his wife actually makes jewelry, so she made these for me. And it's like my favorite item of jewelry that I owned. And guts means what to you in the context of this album? It means a few things.

It means. courage. It means trusting your gut, means following your intuition. It means I like spilling your guts too. I feel like There's some of that on this album. Yeah, I feel like every song I've ever written is sort of just me spilling my guts a little bit. I just think the word is cool. I love four-letter words. I can tell.

Do you ever, when you're sitting down spilling your guts in front of a piano, do you ever have any hesitation of like, ooh, maybe I should go this far? Maybe I shouldn't tell this one. It doesn't feel like it. Yeah. In the moment when I'm writing a song, I try not to censor myself too much or think about, you know, what people on the Internet are going to say about it. Just because I think that is kind of the antithesis of creativity. But it's, you know, after the fact, then it's kind of when you have to be like strategic, I suppose.

I don't know. But it's out there now. It's out there. Let it ride. Well, it's such a pleasure to share even a story. small part of this day with you. Congratulations on the album. Thank you. And it's great to talk to you. Oh, you as well. Thank you for all the thoughtful questions. Thanks, Olivia. Thanks, Olivia. For a great conversation. You can check out her latest album, Guts,

wherever you get your music. And my thanks to all of you for tuning in again this week. If you want to hear more of my conversations with our guests every week, be sure to click follow so you never miss an episode. And don't forget to tune in to Sunday today every weekend on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday Sit Down podcast.