Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist - Paul McCartney on Making New Music, The Beatles and His Lasting Legacy

Episode Date: May 31, 2026

Paul McCartney’s incredible career began more than 60 years ago when he formed The Beatles with John Lennon, George Harrison, and Ringo Starr.  Now, he’s out with his latest solo album "The Boys of Dungeon Lane". In this week's Sitdown, Willie Geist gets together with McCartney to talk about his new music, that includes a song with The Beatles members. And McCartney talks about performing in Stephen Colbert's final "The Late Show" which happened to be on the same stage the Beatles had their American debut in 1964. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, Willie Geist here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks, as always, for clicking and listening along. I have a good one for you today, but good's not the word. I have a great one for you. I have an iconic one for you. That's a vastly overused term in our culture today, but this is an honest-to-goodness icon. He is one of the four lads from Liverpool who make up the most famous band in human history. They arrived, did the Fab Four.

in New York City, February of 1964. Two days later, they played the Ed Sullivan Show, and Beatlemania officially erupted across the United States. He is, Sir, Paul McCartney. I can't believe I'm saying it out loud. We got McCartney on the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Paul has a new album coming out called The Boys of Dungeon Lane. It's a solo album that takes him actually back to those early days in Liverpool,

where he met John Lennon in the summer of 1957. he brought his friend George Harrison, a schoolmate of Paul's, to meet Lenin. Okay, he's the guitar player. A few years later, they bring in Ringo Star, and the Beatles are born. So we're talking about his new album, just to give you a visual. We gathered in a record shop in New York City called Rough Trade. So there we are sitting in chairs, me across from McCartney, surrounded by albums. Beatles albums, yes, but so many, and we talk a little bit about this, of the records that surround us,

inspired by the Beatles, ranging from Springsteen and Billy Joel and even Nirvana. Kurt Cobain used to talk about how he's inspired by the Beatles. That's just the tip of the iceberg. The Beatles influences everywhere you look in music even to this day. So talk about the new album, talk about some memories from Liverpool with John and the boys, talk about his impact on music. And he had just come, we can say now, and we do talk about this, from his rehearsal for the final show of Stephen Colbert's late show. As you know by now, it was McCartney who shut down the place in a poetic way, given the fact that he came there in 64, played the Ed Sullivan Theater, and then ended Stephen Colbert's run there all these decades later. So I will give you no further introduction because my goodness, this is Paul McCartney. If there ever was a man who needed no introduction, it is him. Sit back, relax, and enjoy Paul McCartney right now on the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Paul McCartney, thanks for doing.

doing this. What a pleasure to meet you. This is a thrill. Thank you. The album, The Boys of Dungeon Lane. Yes. Just a beautiful, beautiful album. Let's start with the title. Who are the Boys of Dungeon Lane? Well, Dungeon Lane was a place in Speak, which was an area where I lived and where I met George Harrison, so it was where I used to hang out. And there was a little lane called Dungeon Lane that led down to the seashore, the Mersey Shore. So I used to go down there quite a while. And I was a bird fancier. So I had a little observers book of birds, it was called. So I used to go down.

I used to hang out down there. And it was a nice place for me. So the boys at Dungeon Lane are just, in my mind, I'm thinking of a couple of boys who mugged me and stole my watch. But it's more general. It can be, you know, a lot of people from Liverpool. So, yeah, so it's just a general thing. It's a beautiful.

The boys. The memories that are conjured throughout this, of your friends, of your parents, of your childhood, what made you at this point in your career want to go all the way back to those days and tell those stories? I don't know, you know. I think when you're writing stuff, no matter what you're writing, you know, an essay, an article, a book, or a song, I think you often look in the past

because that's where all the material is. That's where everything you're going to draw on unless you're doing some sci-fi, futuristic thing. So, yeah, so I easily look back. And maybe it's just this point in my life. But I do, I enjoy looking back. I think a lot of people do. You know, you're looking back at your childhood.

And if you're lucky, like I was, you've got a lot of warm memories. So going back to them is a beautiful, warm feeling. So, yeah, so that's probably why I do it. It's just a nice place to be. And while you're there in your mind, you can see things. Oh, I could write about that. And writing about my parents as one of the songs on the album, it's suddenly occurred to me,

when it's occurred to me many times, but that they had me during the war, World War II. And I just think of a couple of young people. You can't think of your parents as young people, but they were, they're having a baby. And meanwhile, Hitler is sending over these bombers. and bombing the hell out of Liverpool. So I just thought of the bravery,

the courage of them to just sort of move forward, carry on. So it's a good theme to write a song about. There's plenty of memories and material. Salesman Saint is the song you're talking about, which is beautiful, which is your father. Your mother's a nurse, so she's the saint in the story. You've talked about your parents, You've written about them in songs before, but to me, this is one of the most beautiful tellings of their story.

It sounds like you have purely fond memories of those days. Obviously, you lost your mother far too young when you were 14 years old. But you remember your parents very fondly in this song, don't you? I do, yeah. I mean, I think you block out the bad bits, you know. But I was lucky I had a really good family, good parents. And I say the bits you block out is when your dad caught you doing something and decided he had to slap you.

And so that's like, hmm. It's a good job I blocked it out. You only used to slap your knees. But anyway, but generally I have really warm memories. And also my uncles and aunties and cousins was quite a group of them. And they were good people. some people sort of say you know how come you seem kind of ordinary sometimes i said it was them to keep your feet on the ground they were funny the uncles mainly would say have you heard the one about

it's always the uncles isn't it me too yeah they'd come up with a great joke yeah you hadn't heard and also when they left the house they'd slip a bit of money ah you're gonna love that guy so you know and the These were fantastic, great cooks. So you remember the food and that. Sorry, it was good. It was good times until my mom died. And then things changed, obviously. Days We Left Behind, which is the first single.

You sang it on Saturday Night Live a few nights ago. Beautiful, beautiful song with beautiful song writing. That's a song you've said about memory. What do you mean when you say that? when you look back at those days you've left, what are you seeing? What are you feeling? Yeah. You know, I don't know how I write stuff. I do a class in Liverpool in my old school for students, for songwriting students, and that's often one of the first things I say when I come in and I sort of say, look, I don't actually know how to do this. I don't think it's very inspiring,

but they get what I mean. I don't know how I do it. But once you start on a song, it takes you to places that can lead to the next place. So memory songs like days we left behind, I think just talking about smoky bars and cheap guitars, that's real. That's how it was.

but it's also very emotional because you've left them behind and I think people resonate with that thought I say everyone's got days they left behind whether it's your college days I was so great what about that girl, what about that guy

what about that football game or whatever so I think a lot of people can relate to that And yeah, so it's nice to write about it. And then there's a line in it, which says nothing stays the same, no one needs to cry. And that's when everyone cries. Yes, yes.

You know, it does make quite a few people well up that song. But I think it is just, yeah, you know, we've lost those days. So it is sad, but it's happy because they were great days. It's a strange little world of memory. You can cry either way, whether they were joyful days or mournful days. They'll bring a tear to your eye. Hey, guys, thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down Podcast. Stick around to hear more from Paul McCartney right after the break.

Welcome back now more of my conversation with Paul McCartney. Part of the memory as well is of the boys from the band, you and George hitchhiking in the song Down South. It just feels to me listening that like you're, singing about a simpler time when the two of you could throw up a thumb, hop on a lorry and catch a ride somewhere. Before, as you say in the song, before Twist and Shout. And that's about your relationship with him, isn't it?

Now, one's about George, yes, because we did a few hitchhiking trips. It's a cheap holiday. Yeah. You know, it didn't have much money. But, yeah, it was great because it was very bonding. And this was before the Beatles, before we learned to twist and shout. So it just made you understand each other a bit more as mates. You know, when you've, it's lunchtime and you're still looking for a lift,

but you run into a little shop and you get a little tin of ambrosia creamed rice. You open that, share it. You know, it's simple little things like that. But we're great. So that when we became the Beatles, and we had to do things like, you know, America, Ed Sullivan's show, Royal Command performances and stuff, big deal stuff. We knew each other very well.

So we kind of each knew what the other was thinking. We knew what chords he was playing. You know, we had a lot in common by that time, probably because of all this stuff we'd been to. But, you know, we had some great times on those trips. We were hitchhiking to Harleck in Wales and me and George. And we got a lift off a milk float. And the little guy who just, you know, delivered milk.

And those were the only electric cars you ever saw before, you know, TVs. Right. These are big batteries in the... Yeah. Yeah. So there's a battery. where next to the driver. Right. And then there's a passenger seat. And we hopped in.

George sat on the battery, and I got the passenger seat. I was second in. And then suddenly, there's a guy takes off. Suddenly, oh! George jumps up. So what? And what happened?

He had a zip on his back pocket. And it had connected up the battery. So it burned him, you know, and he jumps up. And later on, when we go, until we found a place to stay. He showed me he had like a zip mark on his bum. He probably had that all his life and only you knew about it. I wonder.

The strange thing that you're talking about memory. Not everyone remembers things the same. They remember things, but from their point of view, I was with Olivia Harris and George's wife recently, and this kind of thing came up. She said, oh, George told me about that. that when you sat on the battery, I said, no, no, George's that. So it just got criss-crossed.

We'll never know. It's lost to history, maybe. I brought. Okay. You know. Believe me. Okay. That's on the record.

You say you can't quite explain how you write a song or how you put an album together. But what is your process for blank page in front of you? I want to put out a new album. Even the concept of it. I want to take it back to Liverpool in my childhood. How do you begin to create an album? Because you've done it so many times on your own and with bands as well. It's always the same for me.

It's either a guitar or a piano. And it's normally when I've got some time off and I don't have to go to a meeting or a gig or something. And so it's just a day off. And I just love noodling around on a guitar. So I'll play. And if I'm lucky, something nice. will appear a nice chord or some words I like and then I just will follow that trail.

Same on the piano and I don't know where it's going to lead me. I don't know why I've started it like that but I know it's if I'm looking I know it's going to lead me somewhere and so it's great it's like this discovery process so you and then you finish your song and for me it's a question of when I've got enough songs, then I tend to think, I'll put together an album. So I don't actually consciously think this is going to be a nostalgic album or memory album. It's just when I put them all together, I notice there's six or seven that deal with memory. So, and then someone will say, oh, it's a concept. And I'll go, yeah.

I didn't mean it to be. Right. You know, the fact is I'm writing it, so it's always going to hold together because it's coming from my head. But I don't have any grand plans. This is going to be memories of Liverpool. I never think like that. I just, I'm writing a song, and it can go anywhere it wants, and I'll follow it. Speaking of memories from Liverpool, I'm thinking about.

you as a young boy growing up the son of a salesman and a nurse and wondering where music first comes into your life because on paper growing up Liverpool at that time as you said near the end of world war two tough times where does the music begin for you my dad was a pianist um amateur he played by ear and so there was always a piano in the house I remember reading a biography on Harold Arlen, who says in New York, where he's from, he said, every house had a piano. It's like, you know, it's like the computer. So we had one, and he was a good pianist.

I liked it. And so I would lay on the carpet, listening to my dad, playing these tunes. And I was lucky because it all went in. You know, I kind of sort of understood what he was doing. playing these songs. So when it came to writing songs, I had a lot of that that had already made its way into my mind.

And then radio, there's a lot of music on the radio. And then later when rock and roll arrived, that was a big seismic change in the world because it had been pretty square till then. And certainly there's Elvis, little Richard Chogbury, Gene Visitor, All-American.

And we just were bowled over. So, what is this? And kids, today, you can't really imagine a time before rock and roll. That's right. Because it's in your consciousness, everyone knows. But there was a time when we didn't know this crazy music. And suddenly, there it was. You know, Elvis, Heartbreak Hotel.

or something. He was like, what is that? Man, little Richard, who is this man that sings like this? Pounding the piano the way he does. Yeah. You lived on both sides of it pre-rock and roll, then after rock and roll. That's true. And then you took it to an entirely new place. Well, I think that is true. You say that we had both sides and John and I, too. So when we, John and I first hooked up and started writing stuff, we asked each other, you know, what are your favorite songs? Rock and Roll had only just come in, so your favorite songs were old songs. And I said, one of mine is a song called Cheek to Cheek,

which was Fred Astaire sang it in a movie. And John said, Little White Lies, was his. So we knew these old songs and the structure of these old songs, and we admired that. So now we were now kind of writing in the rock and roll world, but we had that old sensibility. So we were always trying to put a little bit of that in, a bit of sort of melody or some of the ideas that appeared in those old songs, like a little lead-up intro before the song got going. So I think that was a bit of a secret of the Beatles. It wasn't just one type of music.

It was influenced by a lot of different types of music. Yeah, you had that foundation and build off of that. Stick around for more of my conversation with Paul McCartney right after a quick break. Welcome back now to the rest of my conversation with Paul McCartney. So you're 15 when you meet John. He's 16, I believe. and then you're through the quarry men and Johnny and the Moondogs, you know, the silver beagles. Then we land them the Beatles.

And we were just talking about being in this city right now in New York and thinking about when you arrived here on February 7, 1964 at JFK to screaming fans and then went to the press conference at the plaza to almost hysterical media to greet you. And then, of course, played the Ed Sullivan show a couple of days later. When you look back on that time or you see video of it, what do you see? What do you feel? What do you remember? Well, I remember the thrill that it was for us because as I've said, you know, all the music we loved came from America. So we just loved the idea of America.

Now, then it was, give me your huddled masses. It was the land of democracy. So it's sad these days to see it getting a... eroded a bit. But, however, in answer to your question, it was a thrill. And the fact that we were on the radio, our music, on American radio, in America, was like, wow, unbelievable. We didn't kind of know quite some of the TV shows we were doing, like Ed Sullivan, we'd never heard of him. So he was only really famous over here.

Didn't make it to England. and like people like Walter Winchell who are huge names over here and they'd say, he's really big, you know, we go, oh, it didn't phase us. It was just like, okay, it's another gig.

But that's, I look back and I see these young boys being amazed at where they've landed and what they're going through. And as I said before, because we knew each other and we'd all come up together, and done a lot of stuff before we came to America. It was great because we all experienced the same kind of things

and we're all in it together, you know, like a little tight group. Right. But when you get off that plane and you see that crowd and you see the genuine hysteria, you experienced some of that in the UK, but you maybe didn't expect that here. No. What was that feeling? Yeah, we didn't know whether it was going to happen here. we couldn't work out how it would happen.

How would they know we were at the airport? But actually what happened is the captain of a plane always wires ahead to the airport he's going into. And he heard some stuff, oh, there's loads of fans. So we knew there were loads of fans, which made us very excited. So that's great. What a great welcome, you know.

And so then we came down the stairs and the... So it was great. We felt very at home. And now here we are in the year 2026. You've just come from the Ed Sullivan Theater. Yeah. Where you're going to close things out for Stephen Colbert. When this airs, you will have closed things out for Stephen Colbert. What was it like to be back in that theater? Did some feelings come rushing back to you? Yeah, it is. It's magical when you realize that the space you're standing in was,

the same space that those four boys stood in. Now, here we are. And I've done other things in there with Letterman and various people over the years. But today, when I went there, it was very, it was very warm, and it was really nice. And it was kind of amazing to think, wow, this is, this is exactly the spot where we did all that stuff. And what I was. And what we were, amazes us, more amazing me, was that when you hear the tape and you actually see our performance, it sounds good. It really sounds, you know, it's like, okay, we didn't put a foot wrong, but it's live. Right. So that is like live TV in front of a lot of people, the audience, TV audience.

So, I don't know. I think luckily we had the strength of the union, us guys, and we'd practiced enough to know one, two, three, four, bang, and just we went into it. We all knew how to do it. So that memory of doing that comes back. If ever I go to that space, it's like, wow, we did okay. And you can still see those kids.

screaming up in the balcony. Yeah, that's what it is. I see the balcony and it's like, ah! You know, there were 73 million Americans watching that first night. Seventy-three million in a country that was smaller than it is today. It's incredible. I know, it was incredible. I was doing, at one point, I was doing the song yesterday, which involves just me in a guitar, and they had a string quartet, the orchestra. There was just me on my own, though, on the stage, and they had curtains. And they had a couple of guys on the curtains, you know, local teamsters, and they're there. And the New York guys, you know, so they don't care.

And one of them turns to me, says, he says, you're nervous? I said, oh, I don't think so. I'm not too bad. He said, you should be 73 million people watching. And he's like, oh, now I'm nervous. That is not what you want to tell somebody right before they go out on live. But then I look at it, I don't look nervous. No, at all.

It should be. At all, no. It's amazing, too, when you think about that performance on Ed Sullivan in 64. And then your last performance together, as the Beatles, was on the rooftop in 69. It's really only a five-year stretch in terms of American audiences seeing you. And as prolific as you all were, are you sometimes, when you look back on it, you've been surprised at yourselves, the volume and really a decade of material that you were able to put out? Yeah, I am. Yeah.

I'm very pleased with it. I think one of the things was, because we were just young guys, we didn't want to get bored. So everything we did was an effort to not be boring. So if we do song like yesterday, let's say, then the next song we wanted to do would be a rocker. And then after that, we'd want to do something strange or something. We're always trying to do something different.

So I think that kept us moving forward. Yeah. And quite a lot of different work, really, which made it not boring. Kept us interested. And of course, everyone, every Beatles fan has a favorite album. I can throw them all out. familiar with them. If you had to point to a Beatles album and say, that was us at our best, that's the Beatles. Could you pick one? That's always a very difficult question. My mind went to

Rob a Soul because I think that was a change in what we've been doing. Sort of things advanced a little bit there. But then I'd have to say Sergeant Pepper was like a crazy different experience. And then I would probably finish up with Abbey Road. It's a pretty good list. I'm looking around this record store too, Paul, and just thinking about all the influences you've had when you hear people like Bruce or Billy Joel or Kurt Cobain or Ozzy Osbourne or all these different genres of music point to the Beatles. Did that surprise you in that way to think that, oh, Helter Skelter may have started the heavy metal movement or all these, even your work with wings, indie rock bands talk about that sort of today as inspiration. Just the directions

that your music has gone is striking. Yeah, I mean, obviously it's great for me to think that people were listening and that they were influenced. He talked about Kurt Cobain. I remember seeing a little bit of video of him singing, and I love her. Which is a real sweet little love song. Just not what I would expect

Kurt to do. But he was, you know, obviously a sweet guy. Yeah. It is amazing, though, to hear somebody like Ozzy Osbourne or others saying. It was you. I mean, so we're talking about foundation

of your music. so much of the foundation of American music is right there in the Beatles. And now here you are, you know, still putting out really high-level music and songwriting. And so I think I know the answer to the question, but is there any world in which you put down the guitar and you go, I think I've done it or will you just do it as long as you can? I hope not. I hope I don't put it down, you know, hang up your boots. it's just something I love. So, you know, if I have a spare minute and there's a guitar around, I probably would just enjoy picking it up and seeing what those chords are,

what those do. So, yeah, no, I would, even though I finished doing it professionally, I can't believe I do it professionally. I'm actually a singer-songwriter. professionally. I can't believe that. It still seems like a hobby to me. So yeah, it is a hobby. So I just love the magical thing where you can, I've learned enough now of how to do it, that whereas I can sit at a piano or a guitar and I can conjure up something. Just, and there's a magic to that for me.

that I can't imagine stopping, you know. And why would you? If you have the gift, use it. Yeah, you know, it's such a pleasure. It's a great feeling. You start and there's nothing there, just a little guitar chords. And, you know, three or four hours later,

if you're going to just work on it, you suddenly, on your little bit of paper, you've got a set of lyrics. and you've got a song that's like, oh, wow. And you've amazed yourself. So you try and find someone to play to. And I don't think that magic will ever die. I love that you still amaze yourself.

And then that song becomes an album, and here we are. Congratulations on the record, Paul. It's fantastic. Pleasure to talk to you. Cheers, ma. Thank you. Cheers. My huge thanks to Sir Paul McCartney for a great conversation,

you can stream his latest album, The Boys of Dungeon Lane, and of course his massive catalog of music, including that of the Beatles, wherever you get your music. And my thanks to all of you for listening again this week. I want to hear our conversations with my guests every week. Be sure to click follow so you never miss an episode. And don't forget to tune into Sunday today every weekend on NBC to see these interviews with your own two eyes in full color. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week on the Sunday, Sit Down Podcast.